Conference quark::human_relations-v1

42.0. "Lost notes" by QUARK::LIONEL (Reality is frequently inaccurate) Fri Aug 22 1986 10:09

    Thanks to Dave McClure, this note contains most of the "lost" notes
    entered since Monday evening.  It is impractical to have people
    put ALL of these notes in the proper places, but feel free to
    extract this note (use the command EXTRACT HR.TXT, which gives you
    a file HR.TXT, then edit that file as you like) and put selected
    notes wherever you want them.  Otherwise, this note can serve as
    a record of what was lost.  Please - only the original authors should
    repost their own notes.
    						Steve

            <<< NOTES::PUB:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUMAN_RELATIONS.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< Version 2 of that other file >-
================================================================================
Note 3.80           Will the Mystery Guest Please Sign In.              80 of 81
USWAV1::MCKINNON                                     12 lines  19-AUG-1986 11:50
                           -< This game is great!!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi folks, here goes my into, but #43 is a good one.

Dennis McKinnon

Customer Administration Specialist (CAS)

Waltham, Mass. 

Been with DEC 10 years and I love it.

married 9 years 2 kids  Tom age 6 and Jenny age 4
================================================================================
Note 3.81           Will the Mystery Guest Please Sign In.              81 of 81
JETSAM::HANAUER "Mike Hanauer, 223-5991, PKO1/F3"    11 lines  19-AUG-1986 12:56
                       -< Be Yourself and Like Yourself >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name is Mike Hanauer, live in Lexington MA.

Logical age is 11.
Love Ice Cream, Bicycling, psychology, and the beach.

Enjoy learning other peoples opinions.
Hot personal concern is over-population and resulting loss of quality 
    of life.

	Mike


================================================================================
Note 37.40                    What Turns You Off?                       40 of 40
CAMLOT::DAVIS "Grins"                                 9 lines  19-AUG-1986 08:35
                            -< what can I say?... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    uncouth:  crude or unrefined...
    
    when I see some jerk having a good time at everyone
    else's expense, I don't think it's attractive... 
    
    :^)
    
    Marge
    

================================================================================
Note 40.5                     Looking for sources                         5 of 6
GENRAL::TAVARES                                       8 lines  19-AUG-1986 10:42
                                -< Read A Lot >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When I found myself hungering for similar material several years
    ago, I wound up going to the nearest resale (used) book store and
    buying/reading everything on the subject.  Unfortunately, as .3
    says, there are no books that are exhaustive on the subject.  After
    reading through about 50 or more of the "pop psychology" stuff on
    the subject, I formed some guidelines for myself that have worked
    for me.  A paragraph from one book, a page from another, that's
    how it goes.  BTW -- good advice in .3!
================================================================================
Note 40.6                     Looking for sources                         6 of 6
INANNA::DEROSA "Obviously, a major malfunction."      9 lines  19-AUG-1986 11:28
                  -< Check out Psychology Today, 5/85-Pres. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An issue of Psychology Today sometime between now and May 1985 had an
    excellent article (it was the cover story) about a study that was done
    of the characteristics of successful, long-term marriages.  The article
    gives some good info. about what is and is not important to partners
    in a successful marriage. 
    
    I believe there was a bibliography at the end of the article. 
    
    jdr

================================================================================
Note 41.12                         erecTions                            12 of 14
QUARK::LIONEL "Reality is frequently inaccurate"     20 lines  19-AUG-1986 11:23
                              -< An observation >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now that this topic seems to be calming down, I'd like to offer
    an observation.  I agree with Jim Burrows that what seems to have
    happened is not that someone objected to the topic, but that they
    thought SOMEONE ELSE would object.  While I can certainly understand
    this protective instinct, it is really quite similar to the
    well-meaning people who want to ban pornography, rock music or
    Mr. Ed.  It's a very hard urge to deny, that of "I'm doing it for
    your own good", but we must fight it.
    
    In any event, I DO think that this kind of topic is not one I'd
    like to see more of in this file.  If it is really important to
    you, then go ahead and talk about it, but let's please not turn
    HUMAN_RELATIONS into HUMAN_ANATOMY, etc.  I have been very pleased
    to see H_R take on the best of what SEXCETERA had to offer, and
    don't really miss the rest.
    
    I think that HUMAN_RELATIONS can serve best if we can attract a
    large number of considerate readers and writers, and not turn off
    too many.  We're doing fine so far.
    						Steve
================================================================================
Note 41.13                         erecTions                            13 of 14
JETSAM::HANAUER "Mike Hanauer, 223-5991, PKO1/F3"    12 lines  19-AUG-1986 12:22
                   -< You only hear from the few who object >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My feeling is that the participants are sincere and that there is a 
need to discuss for them.  No one is forced to read any note.

All the con arguements I've seen could be made against the Dr. Ruth 
program, but I think she has had a true positive impact.

This may be fighting city hall, but maybe it's time to do the right 
thing and fight for it.  Society goes right down the tubes when 
decisions are based on what "someone" might think.

Flame off.
		Mike
================================================================================
Note 41.14                         erecTions                            14 of 14
SWSNOD::RPGDOC "Have pen, will travel"                8 lines  19-AUG-1986 12:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The obvious solution to the original problem was to jump in the
    water.  At least in New England that would certainly deflate things.
    
    Reminds me of skinny dipping with a bunch of friends once, in a
    pond near Plymouth, and one of the girls on shore asked one of the
    guys in the water "how cold is it?" and he replied by holding up
    his thumb and forefinger not very far apart and saying "about this
    cold".

================================================================================
Note 42.1                   I see no commotion here                       1 of 9
SCOTCH::FUSCI "DEC has it (on backorder) NOW!"       19 lines  19-AUG-1986 01:15
                         -< Contents beside the point >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you missed my point:

1. This conference apparently has had no moderator for some time now.

Question:  Would you/your management allow an unmoderated conference on one 
of your machines?
My answer:  I will not.

If your answer is different, are you volunteering to host this or any other 
unmoderated conference on one of your machines?

2. The lack of a moderator has caused me to become involved as sort of the 
"de jure" moderator, since it's on the books as "my" node.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend much effort here.  If 
folks think this is a useful conference, then there ought to be someone 
willing to moderate it.  I am making no value judgements on its contents.

Ray
================================================================================
Note 42.2                   I see no commotion here                       2 of 9
GENRAL::TAVARES                                       2 lines  19-AUG-1986 10:45
                                -< Nomination? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Jim, you seem like good moderator material...
    
================================================================================
Note 42.3                   I see no commotion here                       3 of 9
QUARK::LIONEL "Reality is frequently inaccurate"     16 lines  19-AUG-1986 10:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have volunteered to serve as a moderator of this conference. 
    In addition, I have suggested naming two or three people as
    co-moderators - this scheme has worked very well in MARKETING
    notes, of which I am one of three co-moderators.
    
    My fondest hope is that this file is not in need of constant
    supervision - that we participants can do an adequate job of
    controlling ourselves and working out among ourselves any
    problems.  If excessive moderation is necessary, there is a real
    problem.
    
    I will note from experience in MARKETING that one contributor
    accounts for nearly all of the moderation necessary - let's hope
    we don't have someone similar in this conference.
    
    					Steve
================================================================================
Note 42.4                   I see no commotion here                       4 of 9
ZEPPO::MAHLER "Michael"                              12 lines  19-AUG-1986 11:53
                               -< How naive... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    That's just what I said right before SEXCETERA got
    canned on me.

    This file IS in need of constant supervision.
    I hope you do not become moderator because if you think
    that then it will be gone sooner than you think.  I know the people
    in personel who MAKE the policies that we are supposed to obey
    and they are already talking about this file.

    I too have volunteered my efforts.
================================================================================
Note 42.5                   I see no commotion here                       5 of 9
ANYWAY::GORDON "Think of it as evolution in action.." 7 lines  19-AUG-1986 12:32
                             -< Another volunteer >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I too, have volunteered to moderate. Although I have not contributed
    heavily, I read H_R regularly.
    
    I do not offend easily, but am willing to discuss anything anyone
    else may find unsuitable...
    
    					--Doug
================================================================================
Note 42.6                   I see no commotion here                       6 of 9
QUARK::LIONEL "Reality is frequently inaccurate"     11 lines  19-AUG-1986 12:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re .4:
        Differences of opinion is why I think there should be more than
    one moderator.  I can understand your skepticism and fear.  I hope
    that we only need to guide gently, not snip out.  However, I would
    not hesitate to hide an entry which I thought to be really out-of-line,
    and then I would discuss the matter with the author.
    
        I too miss SEXCETERA, and the help it gave me, and don't want
    to see this file go the same way.  I believe that if there IS some
    guidance that H_R can be successful.
    					Steve
================================================================================
Note 42.7                   I see no commotion here                       7 of 9
FRSBEE::COHEN "Mark Cohen 223-4040"                  15 lines  19-AUG-1986 13:05
                            -< Nyet to Censorship >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Moderator is, to belabor the obvious, one who moderates or maybe even is
moderate (From the Am Heritage dictionary: not excessive or extreme).  I realize
there have been problems in the past, but this conference needs a moderator who
will gently steer rather than censor (as was stated in previous notes).

We should not operate out of fear of Personnel.  I'm in Personnel and the
important meesage to the company (if "the Company" is indeed watching (it all
sounds a little paraniod to me, but I wasn't around for the earlier confer-
ence))is that this is the work of responsible people who are providing a
valuable service, at least to each other.

A moderator with a censor head-set would make the purpose of this conference
meaningless.

Mark 
================================================================================
Note 42.8                   I see no commotion here                       8 of 9
FREMEN::RYAN "Note well!"                            14 lines  19-AUG-1986 17:55
                         -< A start on some rules... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	for the moderator(s) to enforce:
	
	If something offends you, send mail to the author. If the
	author fails to convince you the note is not offensive, and
	refuses to delete it, then send mail to the moderator. This
	should be obvious, but clearly isn't.
	
	The moderator should not delete notes without receiving any
	complaints, unless there is clearly a legal risk involved.
	
	What criteria should the moderator use to determine whether to
	act on a complaint? That's a good question for discussion...
	
	Mike
================================================================================
Note 42.9                   I see no commotion here                       9 of 9
SCOTCH::FUSCI "DEC has it (on backorder) NOW!"       11 lines  19-AUG-1986 19:38
                             -< moderator named! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it appears there are at least three folks interested enough to see 
that this conference continues in what I would call a responsible manner.

Since Steve's philosophy appeals to me, and since he was the first to 
volunteer,  I am accepting his offer to moderate this conference.

I think it would be great if Michael and Doug would work with him, but I'll 
leave it up to the three of them to come up with a workable modus vivendi.

Regards,
Ray

================================================================================
Note 43.0                  Help for Laurel Kinzelman                  No replies
OMEGA::KINZELMAN "Paul Kinzelman"                    47 lines  19-AUG-1986 17:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laurel Kinzelman was seriously injured in a car accident Monday, 8/18
about 3:35pm in Southboro on Rt 9. For those of
you who don't recognize the name, she is a contract person responsible
for the aerobics program at MRO and the owner of Body Unlimited in
Hudson, MA. She was driving along eastbound on Rt 9 when a pickup and a
truck going westbound bumped (for undetermined reason). The pickup lost
it and swerved into the left side of Laurel's car. She was cut out with
the jaws of life (she was wearing her seat belt or she would not be around
judging by the lacerations from her shoulder harness).
She was taken to Framingham Union and is intensive care. She has a
cervical fracture of the C-6 and will probably have to be fused in about
a week. In the meantime, she's in a "halo" to keep the nerves lined up.
Last night she had minimal movement of major limbs and that was it - no
feeling or movement in fingers, etc. Today, less than 24 hours later,
she can actually move her fingers but not grip anything. The doctor was
very optimistic about her prognosis because of her great improvement.
From that, he believes that her nerves were just bruised, not severed.
She is reasonably comfortable, considering. She feels pins and needles
like if you fall asleep on your arm and cut off the circulation and
then you can only minimally move your fingers for awhile. She will need
therapy for quite awhile but the future looks good. She is very coherent
and is in very good spirits considering. Her thoughts are clear.
Anyway, she asked me to forward this message to everyone and anyone and
ask everybody to send her good, healing thoughts. Since she's in intensive
care, they aren't really allowing any visiters outside of the family but
your positive thoughts will be helpful. I'll put this file into the
NOTES::HUMAN_RELATIONS notes file (unless the moderator objects) so you
can check whatever the base note is for further details. I'll post them there.

As you may or may not know, she and I split up awhile ago, but we still care
very deeply for each other. Her brother, sister, and mom are here also
helping to be with her. I'll be going back tonight and post any updates if
there are any to this base note.

I have learned again from this experience about how much I take for granted
about life because of all the things that Laurel can't do now like just
walking outside and feeling the wind and watching the clouds. I feel more
thankful now for my being able to do this than I did before. This is
really the first time I've been close to somebody in the hospital with
a severe injury and it's very sad for me to see somebody full of energy
one day and barely able to move the next day. Well, that's about all I
know about it for now so just send her your prayers, love, healing
thoughts, and joy to uplift her spirits and I know that she will
feel you all and appreciate it and love you for it. I'll be calling
Charles Laquadara on WBCN tomorrow morning to see if he'll get
his listeners to do the same. Thanks.
     -Paul Kinzelman

================================================================================
Note 44.0                     Cold Shower Anyone?                      2 replies
JUNIPR::DMCLURE "Vaxnote your way to ubiquity"       34 lines  19-AUG-1986 18:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	In order to help restore this conference from it's current state of
    confusion back to a point where people can once again feel comfortable
    in talking about the delicate matters involved in human relationships,
    I have decided to temporarily postpone my curiosity with cultural taboos
    and investigate the redeeming factors of sexual repression.

	With the threat of AIDS constantly encroaching upon us, it seems
    somewhat ridiculous to be fighting for sexual freedom in society.  I
    must admit that while I am for sexual freedom, I am also against disease,
    and usually the best way to avoid the latter is by abstaining from the
    former.  As a result, you probably won't see me at any upcoming orgies,
    or even hanging out at any of the local "pick-up" bars.

	There is one problem with this sort of attitude however, and I think
    I would probably sense it much more fully if I was actually single and
    looking right now (as are many of the readers out there), and that is
    that it would be very easy for a group of similarly contented people (like
    myself) to begin a massive "witch-hunt" in an effort to "clean-up" the
    various venerial disease epidemics which are currently plaguing the earth.

	When presented with the correct propaganda, this won't sound like
    such a bad idea on the surface (I'm sure the Religious Right wing is
    already working on a strategy to do just this), but when this movement
    begins to take place, I can only wonder what the side-effects will be:
    submissive cooperation?  massive protest?  1984?

	I also wonder whether this will further the drop in birth-rates of
    the industrialized nations while doing nothing to decrease the birth-rates
    of under-developed nations (after all, AIDS began in Africa if I'm not
    mistaken).  My question then: Is sexual repression going to help any, or
    simply make things worse by taking a giant step backwards into the dark
    ages as far as human relations are concerned?

    							-Dav0
================================================================================
Note 44.1                     Cold Shower Anyone?                         1 of 2
ODIXIE::VICKERS "Don Vickers, Notes DIG member"      22 lines  19-AUG-1986 22:12
                        -< Just call me old fashioned >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Everything seems to act like a pendulum, making swings from the
    right to the left.
    
    Nature itself acts in this manner.  When a species becomes too populous
    nature tends to devise a means to control the situation.  That appears
    to be what is occurring.
    
    It's not beautiful but that's reality which is REALLY what nature
    is all about.
    
    I'm sure our RR (Religious Right) folks would have THEIR text books
    point out that the THEORY of nature is nothing but a theory and
    that the FACT of creationism would describe the punishments being
    meted out by God.
    
    Whichever view you wish to take doesn't really matter.  The prudent
    person should certainly be careful and sane about sexual relations.
    
    Maybe this will help people stop using sex in place of love and
    respect.
    
    Don
================================================================================
Note 44.2                     Cold Shower Anyone?                         2 of 2
CURIUM::JACKSON                                      15 lines  19-AUG-1986 22:42
                         -< abstention vs. repression >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I certainly think people would be wise to think hard before engaging
    in promiscuous behavior, given the threat of fatal illness. What
    upsets me tremendously is the idea that we should be *forced* to
    adhere to a particular code of sexual "morality". I don't believe
    that laws should be passed to protect people from themselves. I
    don't want Big Brother watching me.
    
    Yes, first herpes and now AIDS have certainly put a damper on the
    sexual revolution, in that the days of free love and promiscuity
    are largely over. This, to me, does not constitute repression as
    long as abstention is voluntary. What I hope does not happen is
    a return to days where honest and open discussion about sex was
    considered taboo. This would be a big step backward.
    --
    						Seth

	Thanks Steve!  What a good moderator huh, so efficient - how 'bout
    a round of applause.  It's good to be back to HR too!

	By the way, not to be nit-picky (this happens all the time), but
    my name is McLure (note only one "c").  The problem is that there is 
    a Dave McClure who works in the same building as I do (MR01).  I finally
    got to meet him the other day - he's a great guy (too), but I don't want
    to get him mixed-up with my sometimes spiralling reputation.

	This is probably also one of the main reasons I insist on slapping
    my little "davo" logo on everything I do.  It helps people keep my stuff
    separate from his stuff, etc.  Just think how confusing it would be if
    he was to start entering notes in here too and I wasn't "davo" anymore?

							-davo

    Sorry 'bout that, Davo.  Will remember for next time!
    			Steve

	Hey!  No big deal!  It happens all the time (except I'm usually
    getting mixed-up with Doug McClure - the other movie-star).

							-davo

    While we're at it, it's been brought to my attention that the base
    notes of several notes, for instance #13, seem to have been deleted.
    I don't know if this is a result of a corrupted file or that the
    author actually deleted the note.  Does anyone have any info on
    this?
    					Steve

    I've since been told that those notes have been deleted for some
    time, apparently by the author.  Of course, the replies are still
    around!
    					Steve

    This isn't a lost note, it's a note because I've lost a whole bunch of
    notes.  Darn it.  Worse yet, I don't even remember which conference
    they were in...
    
    Somewhere, probably here or Mennotes or WN4, people were discussing the
    recent news item concerning Nashua (New Hampshire) High School student
    request for condom machines in the school.  I've written a position
    paper on that subject (for Intro to Sociology) and would like to review
    the string.
    
    Any idea where they might be?  Help, pointers, etc.?  Thanks,
    aq
    

You got an answer to that in MENNOTES (two answers, actually).

			Steve

    re .7
    
    NOTED::MASSACHUSETTS has a topic, #1038, on condom machines in the
    schools.
    
    /dlw