| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 29.1 | One theory | MMO01::PNELSON | Searching for Topeka | Wed Jul 30 1986 19:36 | 18 |
| I'm no expert on alcoholism (thank goodness) but there IS one
interesting fact I've read and seen on, I believe, 60 Minutes. That's
the theory that some people are simply more susceptable to alcoholism
than others. That one of those people and a non-susceptable person
could drink exactly the same amount over the same period of time and
one would become an alcoholic and the other would not. Furthermore,
that you can sometimes tell if you're prone by how well you hold the
stuff, how much you LIKE the stuff, etc. Conclusion is that some
people are going to become alcoholics if they drink at all, and others
can drink to their heart's content and NEVER become alcoholics -- well,
not THAT cut and dried, but you know what I mean.
It would be interesting to relate that theory to drug addiction
too.
Comments?
(-: Positive Pat :-)
|
| 29.2 | The theory IS about drug addiction. | BEECH::ECKERT | | Wed Jul 30 1986 20:32 | 6 |
| > It would be interesting to relate that theory to drug addiction
>too.
The theory IS about drug addiction. Alcohol is as much a drug as
marijuana, cocaine, 'speed', or Valium (tm); the most notable
distinguishing factor being its legality.
|
| 29.3 | Drink Responsibly! | MRSVAX::DMCLURE | Vaxnote your way to ubiquity | Wed Jul 30 1986 21:06 | 42 |
| One thing I've noticed about the friends I've known who've developed
an "alchohol problem" is the fact that they never seem to get a balanced
diet (so to speak). What I mean is, when they drink, they don't "chase"
their booze with anything, they just drink it like it is some sort of
a cure-all medicine and when they start to feel the dehydrating effects,
they just drink all the more.
When I was in college, there was a curious campus group who went by
the name of "DRINK". At first I had written this bunch off as a sort of
neo-prohibitionist movement of some kind, but after talking to them, I
discovered that their main thrust was focussed upon "responsible drinking".
This included things such as knowing your limit, and avoiding drinking on
an empty stomach, etc., and although I left the University shortly after
finding out about them, I have since practiced some of the methods which
they had suggested in my own drinking.
For one thing, I always always have several glasses of (spring) water
before I go for a beer because when I don't do this, I usually end-up with
either a head-ache (when only having one or two) or a hang-over later if
I had more than one or two. Food is important as well, I try not to drink
on an empty stomach, because it just isn't as pleasurable in the long run.
Water is also important after drinking alcohol to help prevent the
inevitable dehydration afterwards.
I suppose it's no mystery why people who drink (responsibly) are
typically more bloated-looking, well most booze is mostly sugar and we
all know how fattening that is. Food is, of course, fattening too, but
probably the main reason you gain weight is because your metabolism is
lowered considerably from laying around slurping booze all the time.
On the other hand, most of the people I've known who really had a drinking
problem were typically on the thin side (in fact they almost looked like
they were in good shape). Obviously, I also know some really large people
who could be considered to have drinking problems as well, but these people
typically seem to have other problems which out-weigh the influence of
the alcohol intake by itself.
Oh well, enough for arm-chair medical diagnoses from someone so
unqualified as myself, just remember that if you are going to drink,
then do it responsibly so that you can enjoy yourself without destroying
yourself.
-davo
|
| 29.6 | AA | HYSTER::CLARK | Efficiency and Progress | Thu Jul 31 1986 10:04 | 8 |
| I've heard that, of all organizations who treat people with alcoholism,
the one with the highest success rate is Alcoholics Anonymous.
And AA points out that, in most cases, an alcoholic who does not
learn to control his alcoholism (not "cure," control) will eventually
die. This is because of the progressive nature of the disease.
Once an alcoholic has stopped drinking, they can never start again.
With *any* amount of any alcoholic drink.
|
| 29.7 | Biting Sarcasm Follows | SERPNT::SONTAKKE | Nuke the hypocrites | Thu Jul 31 1986 11:24 | 11 |
| re: .2
> Alcohol being a drug
No, come on, I mean if it were really a drug, our nice government would
have made it illegal! Alcohol and tobacco are OK because our
government says so. And you know, real Americans always trust their
government to do the right thing and never to lie. If it says so, it
must be true. Why would it lie to us?
- Vikas
|
| 29.9 | clinical effects of alcohol | CACHE::MARSHALL | beware the fractal dragon | Thu Jul 31 1986 18:30 | 54 |
| re .3 (responsible drinking):
a couple of myths were reported that I just have to refute.
> Food is important as well, I try not to drink on an empty stomach,
> because it just isn't as pleasurable in the long run.
I agree, but would like to clarify a little. Food in the stomach
will not slow down the absorption of alcohol into the blood.
Most of the alcohol is absorbed before it even hits the stomach.
> well most booze is mostly sugar and we all know how fattening that
> is.
Most booze is mostly water, alcohol, and some by-products for flavor
(ketones to be exact).
Liqueurs have alot of sugar in them, but I don't consider then "booze"
like whiskey or gin or vodka.
> Food is, of course, fattening too, but probably the main reason [boozers]
> gain weight is because [their] metabolism is lowered considerably
> from laying around slurping booze all the time.
Actually, the reason you gain weight is not from the calories in
your booze. When there is alcohol in the blood, the liver just "freaks
out" and works like hell to metabolize the stuff and get it out
of your system. any more complex sugars, it just put right into
fat cells, as opposed to making ATP, because that is very easy to
do. So when you munch on Fritos with a bottle of beer during sunday
football, it is the FRITOS going into the "beer" belly, not the
beer.
laying around slurping booze all the time will just ruin muscle
tone, not make fat.
The reason the hard-core alcoholics look thin is that they don't
eat, just drink. No nurishment.
anyway, I just hate to see myths perpetuated.
I agree with the "drink-lots-of-water" philosophy. I don't think
there's any proof, but it sure do seem to prevent hang-overs the
next morning.
But then again, dehydration is not the only cause of the hang-over,
ketones are also responsible. Vodka has almost no ketones (and almost
no flavor) and gives a much smaller hangover than scotch. This HAS
been shown in controlled studies.
Not having known any alcoholics, (or at least not known that they
were) This is the only way I could contribute to this particular
note. I hope it helps someone in some way.
knowledge is strength,
sm
|
| 29.11 | My feelings on alcoholism | EUCLID::LEVASSEUR | Wherever You Go....There You Are! | Fri Aug 01 1986 13:58 | 44 |
| I was waiting for this topic to come up. There was an article
a few years back in Psychology Today that theorized that alcoholism
may be partly hereditary as well as environmental. I'm active in
a couple of men's rap/support groups and the topic has come up at
least a couple of times a year. There's a tendency (from discussions)
that many alcoholics come from long lines of alcoholics. I know
that my dad, all 5 paternal uncles and most of my cousins on my
father's side were/are alcoholics. Most guys I know who have an
alcohol problem admitted that one or both parents were problem
drinkers. I know that I have the potential for a problem and
keep pretty close tabs on my consumption.
I was concerned enough about 8 years ago to attend a few
AA meetings, which did not work for me, since they replace
drinking with an obsession with drinking. Many had real horror
stories to tell. There are all kinds of alcoholics, from the
skid row bun to the successful executive who gets potted at
lunch and has a 12 martini dinner, but can still function. AA
has a 20 question list, that if you can answer yes to more
than 2 or 3, you have a problem. Some of them were:
Do you sneak drinks?
Do you keep drinking at a party after everyone else stops?
Do you drink every day?
Do you drink alone?
If you're at a party and there's no booze, do you get upset?
Do you drink to forget or cope?
Have you ever had a blackout?
Has alcohol every causes family or legal problems?
The rest I can't remember. One thing I did learn is that alcoholism
is a slow, insideous ailment that can gradually eat someone up after
15-30 years. A true alcoholic will deny that he drinks too much.
I once had a roommate that could down a quart of whiskey a night
and claim he did not drink too much. He was also a pathological
liar. If you want to learn more (non clinical) get hold of a copy
of AA's "Big Book", it's filled with case histories and testimonials.
In many cases a person becomes an alcoholic, while unwittingly
using the drug to cope or loosen up. Mnay are very shy or repressed
people and hte booze lets their true selves out. Trouble is that
extended use for these purposes can cause heavy addiction, which
only compounds the underlieing problem.
Ray
I can't remember the rest but
|
| 29.12 | | MMO01::PNELSON | Searching for Topeka | Sat Aug 02 1986 00:05 | 5 |
| I think the thing that intrigues me most is the proven fact that
children of alcoholics frequently marry alcoholics. It's like
abused children growing up to abuse their own children. It doesn't
make good sense. Why does someone who grew up in such an environment,
hating it, then CHOOSE a similar environment for himself as an adult?
|
| 29.14 | definately a family disease | ANCHOR::FESTA | | Mon Aug 04 1986 05:34 | 57 |
| Let me try this one more time... I originally wrote to this note
last Friday and deleted the reply by accident... I was too tired
and drained to attempt it again...
I grew up in an acholic home.. my father was/is the alcoholic.. My
parents divorced when I was 10 years old.. The first ten years of
my life that I "can" remember were hell... (There are some good
memories, but unfortunaely only a few).. I always thought it was
normal for someone to drink the way my father did.. (about 2 quarts
of whiskey a day... that I knew about) ... I also thought it was
"normal" to be treated the way I was... I lived in fear most of
the time.. I was afraid of getting hit for no reason I was afraid
to drive in the car with him and I was afraid to talk about my
feelings.
The family of the alcoholic learns very early on how to "survive"..
most often that means buring your feelings so deep that you stop
feeling and become numb... Everyone is aware of the problem but
they are too busy dening what is going on and trying to make the
best of the situation..
My father remained an active drinker until I was 13 years old..
he denied me as his daughter and my brother as his son... this was
especially diificult since he lived two houses away from us... It
wasn't until my 16th birthday that he decided to get in touch with
us.. we had a long talk and he had started going to AA.. He has
been sober now for fifteen years...
I have at the moment a very strange realationship with my father..
although I am very proud of him and he really is a nice guy.. there
are alot of scars from when I was a child... It is also hard to
think of him as "Dad"... I still cannot buy him a father's card..
I usually buy a blank one and write a message..
I have recently been reading a lot about Adult children of Alcoholics..
there is a very good book titled "It will never happen to me"...
a doctor has done some case studies on the children of alcoholics..
I went to Al-non a few years back .. and at this point would be
interested in going again.. If anyone knows where there are daytime
meetings in the Boston area or Maynard area please send me mail..
I don't have any answers as to why the child of the alcoholics either
marry or become one.. I know from my own experience that I had a
relationship with someone who was very active before my involvement
and I knew what I was getting myself into and I still did it.. I'll
tell you during that time alot of old feelings that had been buried
surfaced.. maybe that was the reason who knows... I have since stayed
away from that realtionship and others like it.
All I can say that my heart goes out to the children that are
unfortunate victims of this disease..
sincerely...donna
|
| 29.15 | More | EUCLID::LEVASSEUR | Wherever You Go....There You Are! | Mon Aug 04 1986 09:56 | 36 |
| RE: .14
Well Donna, you're not alone. My dad was basicly a good guy
but during my growing up years he wa a monster and I got beaten
for nothing at all. I didn't realize then that he was loades and
figured that it was normal for grownups to perpetually carry a
cocktail glass or beer bottle.
Dad kept a barber's razor strop hanging from the kitchen
wall, that he never hesitated to beat me with, mom sometimes
had to drag him off of me, yelling "that's enough" When he wasn't
potted he was a very loving father. One big factor in the div-
orce of my marriage was my fear/dislike of having children. Since
I was the victim of child beating, I know there's a good chance
that I would be a child beater. After many years I got in touch
with the fact that I dislike children because I felt I was not
liked as a child.
Mom often has told me I was a precoscious kid, always asking
questions that dad could not answer, so he'd whip the hell outta
me and say, children should be seen and not heard. It was not
until I reached my early 30's that I realized it was ok to speak
out when there was something on my mind. The scars are still there
but dad and I made peace with one another before he died of liver
cancer.
It's funny, but mom became one of the most verbal teatotalers
after dad got sick. She's always preaching about the evils of
drinking and rambles on about how every bar and package store in
the country should be burned down. When the tribe gets together
my cousins and I joke about hwo we got beaten as kids, there's
really nothing funny to joke about. The bulk of the people I
have gotten involved with romanticly were alcoholics, right now
I'm staying away from any entanglents until I sort things out.
Alcoholism does not just ruin the life of the drinker, but those
of everyone he/she touches.
Ray
|
| 29.16 | A fatal disease... | DONNER::MARTIN | Of all the gin joints in all the towns... | Mon Aug 04 1986 12:08 | 25 |
|
RE: All
The foremost symptom of alcoholism is characterized by
*the loss of control*. A recovering alcoholic is always
one drink away from his/her next binge.
Alcoholics are powerless when it comes to the drug alcohol.
As the disease progresses their lives are totally unmanageable.
Alcoholics are not different from each other as earlier
expressed, they are more likely at different stages of the
disease. Left untreated *all* alcoholics end up in 1) The Morgue,
2) Jail, or 3) insane.
God grant me the serenity to accept
the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
(AA Serenity Prayer)
C.
|
| 29.17 | Living with the adult child of an alcoholic | BLAKE::COCHRANE | Gee, this could be fun. | Mon Aug 04 1986 12:17 | 55 |
| Well, here I am again, adding my two cents worth. You peple
sure are going to know a lot about my life!!
My husband is an adult child of an alcoholic *and* a drug abuser.
His parents divorced when he was seven, and he lived with his mother.
He remained in touch with his father over the years, but they were
never very close.
As most of you know by now, my husband and I are separated, and
have been for about 5 months. I am *not* an alcoholic. I rarely
drink at all. It does, however, run in my family, although we have
no alcoholic relatives currently living (I suppose that in itself
says something). My husband does not drink *at all* and gets *very*
upset if I have an occasional drink with *friends*. He doesn't
mind if I have a drink when we're out together. He does not like
precription drugs at all, and will not even take asprin or a cold
tablet when he is sick. Much of our counseling has been working
out the problems he has kept inside concerning his father. These
problems have manifested themselves in many different ways. I,
too, have read "It Could Never Happen To Me..." and recommend it
highly. I've read a couple of others as well which were recommended
by my counselor but which I can't think of the names of right off.
They help a lot as far as making you realize that, as a spouse,
you're not crazy. They've helped my husband get in touch with some
of his feelings and realize some of his demands are not rational.
Some of the things you might see with an adult child of an alcoholic
are:
Fear of you not being around - all the time. My husband needs to
spend an inordinate amount of time with me, and resents the time
I *need* to spend with friends. This carries over into my hobbies
as well. Since I require a good degree of personal space, you can
see where this caused a *real* problem.
Need to be mothered and cared for. My husband feels better if I'm
there to cook dinner, do laundry and dishes, excetra. No one ever
did these things for him growing up.
Intense sense of family - it was just never there for him before.
Resistance to change - any change. My promotions were viewed as
threats that had us fighting for weeks. If I changed plans we'd
had for a week-end less than four or five days in advance, he'd go
nuts and wouldn't talk to me for two days or more.
Unfortunately, most of these things didn't crop up as problems until
after we got married, as we didn't live together at all. Had we
done so first, I believe the marriage wouldn't have happened. We're
trying to work things out now, but it's a slow process and he's
very resistant to changing his lifestyle. It just may not work
out.
Anyway, hope this helps someone.
Mary-Michael
|
| 29.18 | Alcohol can kill a friendship | NATASH::TASSONE | Cat | Mon Aug 04 1986 17:44 | 10 |
| Michael, I'll be glad to talk about it. I have some time
tomorrow on Notes but am running out of it today.
I just wanted you to know that this subject is familiar to me through
my mother. I have special considerations as I am what is called
Adult-Child.
If you want to talk (write), I'm here on Natash and in Stow.
Cathy
|
| 29.19 | | ZEPPO::MAHLER | | Mon Aug 04 1986 18:08 | 3 |
|
You are closer than you think.
|
| 29.20 | AA can help | PIGGY::MCCALLION | marie | Tue Aug 05 1986 09:29 | 12 |
| I can't really add anything to this note that hasn't been said
before. My husband is a dual abuser and has been sober for
2 years now but at age 39, I don't think he will ever recover
from the damage done to him by his parents (both, although his
mother doesn't drink she allowed the father to abuse all her
sons) during his childhood.
The abuse is the main reason we don't have children. His nephew,
age 7, appears to have the same attitude that Neil had as a child even
though his parents don't drink.
marie
|
| 29.21 | Fear of intimacy. | DAIRY::SHARP | Say something once, why say it again? | Tue Aug 05 1986 11:25 | 21 |
| 29.22 | we could all probably write a book | PAUPER::KIMBROUGH | gailann, maynard, ma... | Tue Aug 05 1986 12:33 | 37 |
|
After having spent 3+ years as a bartender recently there are several
things I noticed from my side of the bar.
One very prominent thing is in couples you will notice; that one often
has a greater propensity for drinking than the other.. and often
the spouse or SO is there simply because it is a way of being with
a person they care about even if it is a place they would rather
not be. You will watch as one belts them down and the other sits
there patiently nursing a drink just waiting for the other's temper
to flair or in some cases the other to get to 'pass out' or 'shut
off' stage so they can take them home. It is really sad to watch
the face of one while the other continues to order drink after drink..
I learned to read faces and see the grief it was causing.
Also.. when children call for their parents or spouses call how
quick the person is to deny that they are in there getting tanked..
"no honey, I am not drunk.. just having a few.. I will be home soon"
often soon is at closing time... in fact more often than not.
My mom is a drunk.. when I see people who remind me of her from
my side of the bar I fall to pieces thinking this is what my mother
looks like.. I don't know how to treat them; with a little more tact
because of the correlation or to shun them?.. it is just so hard
to deal with it. Every time I have one too many I ask myself if
I possibly could look like her and if people are looking at me the
way I look at them when they are in that condition. It is just
so complex and hard.
There are just no easy answers to alcoholism.. it is legal to drink
so you wonder how it can be so bad.. but deep down you know it is
somehow.. when I count up the stupid things I have done in my life
or watched others do, it is amazing how so often alcohol=stupid
comes into play.
later, gailann
|
| 29.23 | WHO ME??????? | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Fri Aug 22 1986 03:40 | 24 |
|
Mike, and all that have a serious desire to learn more about alcoholism.
I may be sticking my neck out a little but, I am a recovering
alcoholic and I will try to reply to 5 replies a day. I will
number so as people will know to what questions I am answering.
I have also been thinking of starting a alcohol meeting for
anyone thats interested. I will probably make a closed discussion
so that only those that have a serious problem or concern can get
involved. My anonymity means little. I would rather see someone
get the help they need than to worry about something that trivial.
For years I kept myself in the shadows and was bothered by those
who were free to say what they felt. Well now I no longer have
to hide, and I am not ashamed of what I am. I'm actually relieved
to know that I'm not just some kind of crazy nut.
I will try to start answering some of these reply's tomorrow
and I welcome any mail from those that don't want anyone else
to know.
keep it simple dennis
|
| 29.24 | another alcoholic | MILDEW::MELANIE | | Sat Aug 23 1986 01:33 | 33 |
| Thank You Dennis for having what it takes to say something. I have been
looking at this topic everyday since it was opened hoping someone
would come forward. I am new to notes and was hesitent in saying
anything, especialy about alcoholism.
I am a recovering alcoholic, and proud of it too!!
RE:.11
>Since they replace drinking with an obsession with
drinking.
I *WAS* obsessed with drinking but not anymore thanks to my
desire to stop drinking and the help of A.A.
> Insideous ailment that can gradually eat someone up
after 15-30 years.
I realised that I was an alcoholic at the age of 13 but wanted
to make sure so I continued to drink on a daily basis untill I was
18, it had already ruined my teenage years. I thank my higher
power who I call God that "One Day At A Time" I'm not allowing it
to ruin my adult life years too.
I would also be willing to answer any questions anyone might
have."Remember that there are *NO* stupid questions about alcoholism"
"Take it easy"
Melanie a greatful alcoholic
P.S. Melanie Smith. Sorry if there was any confusion with the other
Melanie.
|
| 29.25 | EASY DOES IT | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Sat Aug 23 1986 21:21 | 80 |
|
Note: My answers to the following replies and answers to all replies here
after, are not to be construed as professional. My answers are
based purely on personal experiences and education acquired through
them. If there were anyone correct answer, then there would no
longer be an alcohol problem.
dennis
re:29
There are many different theories on the subject of alcoholism,
and to be able to find one absolute reason why some people
drink without control would be to find the solution to this
wide spread disease.
The disease in my opinion and in my case, begins in the persons
emotions. When a child growing in his very early stages 1-6,
7-20 constantly hears how terrible a person he is, such as....
You stupid bastard, what did you do that for, shut up you idiot,
come here you little *hole, your nothing but a stupid sumbitch
Not pretty ha? Well believe me, after hearing that over and over
again in the course of 5-15 years, what do you think the person
taking all that verbal and allot of times physical abuse is going
to think of himself?
Answer, He is going to think that he's a stupid ass thats not going
to get anywhere in this world because his father say's so, or maybe
the mother, uncle,etc. This person either retreats into his/her own
little shell or becomes a hard to handle child whose past may follow
him through life unless he gets some emotional/mental help.
Either way both types are in great danger of becoming alcoholics.
Now, the parent may very well be an alcoholic or had taken the same
verbal abuse they are dishing out. One learns what they are taught
and if they are never told different then they will most likely
believe the bad.
I can only afford so much time to reply and will add my thoughts
as often as I can. all for now dennis
|
| 29.26 | anonymous?? | ODIXIE::JTATE | | Mon Aug 25 1986 15:34 | 20 |
| HI I'M JERRY AND I'M AN ALCOHOLIC.
I am not a child of an alcoholic nor was I abused as a child. I
loved my parents and knew that I was loved by them. I was extremly
shy and socially inhibited when I was young and when I was 18 years
old found that alcohol helped this situation greatly. Within 2
years my drinking habits were those of an alcoholic. It took another
23 years of drinking and problems to admit that I was an alcoholic.
Thanks to a treatment center and AA I am in recovery today.
I looked into NOTES a couple of months bacck hoping to find a confernce
for recovering alcoholics/drug addicts. Not finding anything,
I decided to try to start one (ODIXIE::AA). I don't know if I have
the knowledge or time to moderate a conference. I have not listed
it yet. I would appreciate some feedback if anyone else has started
one or if I should list that one. Please reply here or to ODIXIE
or my DTN is 351-2634.
jerry
|
| 29.27 | How much before you are an alcoholic ? | ZEPPO::MAHLER | Michael | Mon Aug 25 1986 17:21 | 11 |
|
Maybe I should have started a notesfile to begin with judging
by the responses here. Good PR for DEC too !
I am curious... WHat are the means by which AA says that
you are an alcoholic. I am Jewish and by tradition I have
wine practically every day (About two glassfulls)... does
this make me an alcoholic ? I rarley get drunk/pass_out
at parties. Actually I do not like liquor, just wine and beer...
but I have never gotten DRUNK on either. I fall asleep before I do.
|
| 29.28 | I hope this helps | MILDEW::MELANIE | | Tue Aug 26 1986 00:49 | 28 |
| HI MY NAME IS MELANIE AND I AM A GREATFUL ALCOHOLIC
RE:26
Yes, Jerry I think it would be a great idea to open a confrence
on alcoholism, drug addiction, ect...
RE:27
In A.A. we have what we call a maintenence drinker which means
just that, they don't get "drunk" but do have that *DAILY* drink or
two. The maintenence drinker could be an alcoholic, one way to see
would be to go to an *OPEN* A.A. meeting which means that it is open
to the public. Anyone can go to one of these meetings and check
it out for themselves.
My opinon would be to go *MORE* then one time like for a week
or more before deciding if "you want what we have".PLEEEEEEASE don't
be turned off by the word God, I say this only because I was at
first and now I do believe in a power greater than myself who today
I call God.
"The only requirment for A.A. memebership is the *DESIRE*
to stop drinking."
"One Day A Time"
Melanie
|
| 29.29 | GOOD FOR YOU !!!!! | ANCHOR::FESTA | | Tue Aug 26 1986 06:22 | 32 |
|
I want to give the people who have stepped forward a tremendous
amount of credit for doing so.... it takes alot of courage. I had
written an earlier note about being an adult child of an alcoholic
and as many have stated often these children become alcoholics
themselves. I have often taken a look at this and do question my
tendencies... although for right now i think i am safe... i have
been to AA meetings with my father and also for my own... I like
to check in and the truth is most people there are the warmest and
friendliest people going... there are all kinds of alcoholics...
young and old ... rich and poor... white orange black and green..
re: 27 AA does have a list of questions that you have to ask yourself
very honestly... the truth of it is you have to determine wether
your drinking is interfering with your life in any way... the first
step and often the hardest is admitting there is a problem..
I don't believe that all people who drink are or will be alcoholics
but I do feel that the more people know about alcohols effects and
drugs for that matter the better off they and the rest of the world
will be.
sincerely
donna
i am sorry i don't know the list of questions off the top of my
head.. maybe someone else can help me out....
BTW .. Michael... growing up in an italian family there was always
wine on the table... usually homemade..
|
| 29.30 | Le Chaim... | CHAPLN::MAHLER | Michael | Tue Aug 26 1986 15:49 | 12 |
|
Yes, I would like to see this list.
I do not feel my drinks with dinner interfere with my life, per say,
I was more interested in whether AA considers that ANYONE who drinks
is an Alcoholic.
Can anyone get their hands on some stats about ethnics groups with
the Highest/Lowest ratio of alcoholics ?
Just curious...
|
| 29.31 | More Info | NRVANA::HEFFERNAN | Insist on yourself;never imitate | Tue Aug 26 1986 16:40 | 22 |
| RE: .-1
The definition of alcoholic varies considerably and it still being
worked out by those in the field of alcoholism. There are also
different subgroups of alcoholics with differnet characteristics.
Most agree that it is not the amount and frequency (which varies)
but what it does to you...
There is an excellent book on alcohol and alcoholism that I can't
rememember the name of but I will type it in later when I get home...
From what I have read, most experts think that there are two groups
of people, those can can drink and those that can not drink. Those
that can not drink are alcoholic. Some say that this is a physical
thing, that your body determines which group you will be in.
I'm not sure, but I think this is the AA philospophy. So, no they
would not consider anyone who drinks an alcoholic. Again, it what
it does to you, how it affects you that makes the difference.
|
| 29.32 | re:30 | ODIXIE::JTATE | | Tue Aug 26 1986 16:45 | 12 |
| re:30
AA does not say that anyone who drinks is an alcoholic.
The following is from the book `Alcoholics Anonymous' page 30:
"We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control
our drinking."
This book would be good reading for anyone who has an interest in
alcoholism or AA.
jerry
|
| 29.33 | Way to go, all you quitters!!! | HERMES::CLOUD | Plug me into something! | Tue Aug 26 1986 20:37 | 20 |
|
All I know about alcoholism is that it killed my father. I'm
very saddened by it, but I can't change it. I wish he would have
had the fortitude to attend AA meetings. After reading all of the
previous replies, I'm MOST impressed by those of you who have taken
the initiative to stop drinking. Personally, I like to indulge
in an occasional night on the town to drink it up. Fortunately,
my system can only take a moderate amount of drinks before I start
backing off. That, plus the fact that I learned a hard lesson from
my father...death. I just wish there were more folks joining AA.
I can only think of the people out there who have to live with these
people and how much their lives would be for the better if the affected
person/s in their lives would stop and think. I know, what an idyllic
dream. Here's hoping...
Once again...Grand Kudos for those of you have taken those first
agonizing steps to quit!!!
Phil
|
| 29.34 | Where's the Visine?? | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Wed Aug 27 1986 05:51 | 48 |
|
For those of you that are interested, I think I have the list
questions at home and I will try to post them tomorrow if I
remember. My memory isn't what it used to be.
Thanks Donna for the support.
< I just wish there were more folks joining AA.
I can only think of the people out there who have to live with these
people and how much their lives would be for the better if the affected
person/s in their lives would stop and think.>
Sorry Phil, I don't mean to destroy your dream, but, the loving people
that are affected by the alcoholics are just as much to blame.. You see,
when a family member is an alcoholic, the other parts of the family chose
to deny it as well. The wife or husband for that matter will create excuses
for their mate and thats all the alcoholic needs. Many times the others
end up with their own sickness out of feeling for the alcoholic.
Example:: I am not married, but my mother made my excuses for me. She would
ask, " How much did you have to drink?" I would say " Oh just three or four".
Then she would say, " You probably didn't have enough sleep, or you haven't
been eating enough" Or when the alcoholic is suffering from a hangover
someone would call him in sick at work and say something like, " Oh John
isn't coming in today, he has a really bad temp or the flue. How many
people get the flue 60 times a year.
Alonon, is for the family members to work out their problems, not the problems
of the alcoholics. Granted all was brought on by the alcoholic but you can
not hold him responsible for your feelings. You have a choice. You either
face the problem and give him/her an ultimatum or you live with it. Don't
blame him for your life. Chances are he already blames himself for more
than his share of problems and this one reason he drinks. Don't get me
wrong, he won't admit that he is to blame, he only silently punishes himself
for everything.
Everyone has a choice in this life, when you feel the need to blame others
for your problems, look in the mirror.
Phil, I know you have some genuine concern, but we are all responsible.
And the sooner people realize that the problem doesn't go away just by
turning our backs on it the better. The person has to be made aware of it
and shown his choices. If not, things may just continue until someone
really gets hurt.
dennis
|
| 29.35 | Reading | NRVANA::HEFFERNAN | Insist on yourself;never imitate | Wed Aug 27 1986 10:02 | 4 |
|
Recommended reading on the subject:
_Understanding Alcohol_, Kinney and Leaton
|
| 29.36 | THank you and NOTES FILE..... | ZEPPO::MAHLER | Michael | Wed Aug 27 1986 13:24 | 33 |
|
Hello all.
Again, I would like to thank ALL .1-.35 for honesty and, above all,
unabashedness. I would also like to thank everyone for all the mail
and support I have received over the past weeks.
Although I am not an alcoholic, I am interested in the subject and
how all through high school health classes you are taught that
marijuana is a bad deal (and other drugs) but yet Alcohol is
socially acceptable.
I find this disturbing.
The line has to be drawn and people treated. I see a MAJOR factor
of the progressiveness of alcoholism to be Children of alcoholics
becoming one themselves and so on and so on....
Is Alanon a charitable (non-profit) org... where can I donate ?
Also, I am looking forward to the creation of a Alcohlics
conference. Although NOTES is DEC internal (Actually is a product
it is the ENET that is internal) I wonder how such a thing
like this would work for beginners in AA or as a tool for finding
out things people might not want to say out loud.
Any imput about a file being closed for members only ?
Best Wishes,
Michael
|
| 29.37 | Book recommendation: Under the Influence | HARDY::KENAH | O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!! | Wed Aug 27 1986 14:41 | 45 |
| Another book that you might -- no, scratch that -- that you MUST
look at is "Under the Influence". I'm afraid I've forgotten the
author's name. It's major point -- alcoholism's major symptom is
physical addiction to alcohol.
Some people -- approximately 10% of all who drink -- become alcoholics.
Not because they drink too much, not because they grew up in an
alcoholic environment, but because they have a genetic tendency toward
alcoholism.
Some people become alcoholics, most don't. There is NO choice in
the matter. If you drink, and have the genetic tendency, you become
an alcoholic -- that is, you become physically addicted to the drug
alcohol.
Read the book. It answers many questions that you might have about
the physiological aspects about the disease, and it forthrightly
talks about the amorality of the disease.
Alcoholism, as a disease, is one of the most misunderstood, and
mis-treated ailments in the world. One of the problems is the illusion
that the alcoholic has control over his or her problem. Non-
alcoholics seem to believe that the alcoholic has a choice about
how much he or she drinks. This is simply not true. An alcoholic,
like any other addicted person, cannot rationally control his or
her addictive behaviour.
A few more points, my own. Growing up in an alcoholic home will
not make the child more likely to become alcoholic. It will usually
distort that child's view of reality, and his or her sense of what
is "normal". This warped view of reality affects children who later
(because of physical reasons) become alcohols themselves, and children
who do not.
Those who do not, because of their warped sense of reality, often
marry people who acted like their parents -- that is, alcoholics,
or the spouses of alcoholics.
It is not a simple disease, and there are no simple answers. But
it's entirely too serious a topic for idle speculation. Please,
if you don't *know*, don't guess.
Regards, and Peace,
Andrew
|
| 29.38 | Editing Myself | HARDY::KENAH | O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!! | Wed Aug 27 1986 14:50 | 15 |
| > Some people become alcoholics, most don't. There is NO choice in
> the matter. If you drink, and have the genetic tendency, you become
> an alcoholic -- that is, you become physically addicted to the drug
> alcohol.
Let me rephrase this -- If you have the genetic tendency, and you
drink enough for long enough, you will very likely trigger the physical
addiction to alcohol, and will become an alcoholic.
If you do NOT have the genetic tendency, no amount of drinking will
make you an alcoholic. You will NOT become physically addicted,
because you can't. That's what I meant about "NO choice".
Andrew
|
| 29.39 | | OOLA::OUELLETTE | Roland, you've lost your towel! | Wed Aug 27 1986 14:54 | 6 |
| .36> Is Alanon a charitable (non-profit) org... where can I donate ?
They are non-profit, but I'm sure that the individual
meetings will not take outside donations by tradition (too
many possible strings attatched). I'm unsure about their
World Headquarters in New York City.
|
| 29.40 | I'm always wishing... | HERMES::CLOUD | Plug me into something! | Wed Aug 27 1986 23:02 | 7 |
| You are right Dennis. I was premature in my dream. I was
in a situation where my folks were divorced (and the family was
separated by quite a distance) while this was going on. Kinda
wish I was there!
Phil
|
| 29.41 | denial in our schools | MILDEW::MELANIE | | Thu Aug 28 1986 02:13 | 14 |
| re: .36
> I find this disturbing.
I also find the way schools treat the *DRUG* problem disturbing.
When I was in the eighth grade and was coming to school in the morning
so drunk that I couldn't talk right or walk right NOTHING was done.
I was always told that I had great potential but that my *BEHAVIOR*
was getting in my way. I behaved that way because I was drunk or
stoned. Why won't the teachers, councelors or the nurses go and
learn about how to detect the behavior of a *CHILD* using drugs!
and stop trying to blame it on something else.
What can be done to educate our educators???
Melanie
|
| 29.42 | one day at a time | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Thu Aug 28 1986 02:23 | 33 |
|
Well, You might as well know, I did forget to look for the
list of questions. Maybe tomorrow night.
Also, I would like to add. I used the word "Blame" in my
last entry. A friend of mine and yours let me know how
they felt and I realized that it was inappropriate. No one
wins in a alcoholic situation and no one is to blame. I'm
sorry for those that were confused with that. No one is to
blame especially the children of alcoholic's whom I might
add become I believe the most effected by the problem.
Every one other than the children who are involved in an
alcohol situation have a certain amount of responsibility.
One must except their responsibility for themselves.
I used to think that every thing happens to me. What I didn't
understand was that I had the ability to change that. Things
only happened because I allowed them to happen.
One last point, I am a recovering alcoholic and it means just
that. I will always be in recovery. There is no cure, and may
never be one. I don't have all the correct answers and I would
hope that people didn't feel the need to treat me any different
than they would if I wasn't alcoholic. Feel free to blast me
if you feel it necessary. You can only hurt my feelings if I
allow you to do so. This may have been the case in the past
but it is no longer and I am responsible for my own feelings
no one else.
later dennis
|
| 29.43 | Smoking... | ZEPPO::MAHLER | Michael | Thu Aug 28 1986 12:46 | 7 |
|
This is interesting, I have always though of myself
as a recovering Smoker, since I always still have
an urge for nicotine but don't like the harmful effects.
|
| 29.44 | ONE DAY AT A TIME | LEHIGH::REIVITIS | | Fri Aug 29 1986 12:10 | 11 |
| The EAP within DEC is a good source of information on all 12 Step
programs dealing with one type of addication or another. The American
Heritage Dictionary defines an addict as: To devote or give habitually
or compulsively to.
The 12 Steps I mentioned is a guide to a "NEW" way of life for people
that have found themselvs addicated to drugs (that includes alcohol
because as stated in an earlier reply alcohol is a drug) gambling,
overeating, other alcoholics/addicts etc.
I have found a new way of life through these programs and have come
to "LIKE/LOVE" myself allowing me to "LIKE/LOVE" others.
|
| 29.45 | Who put that tree in my driveway??? | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Sat Aug 30 1986 01:07 | 13 |
|
I just wanted to let everyone know that I did remember to
look for the questions and couldn't find them. Don't worry
I do know how to get a hold of them and I will post them
as soon as I have them in my hands. Until then,
keep it simple
dennis
|
| 29.46 | | ZEPPO::MAHLER | Michael | Tue Sep 02 1986 14:00 | 6 |
|
This is teasing me....
8-}
|
| 29.47 | ANONYMITY | NUHAVN::REIVITIS | | Wed Sep 03 1986 17:46 | 12 |
| A concern about ANONYMITY and this note file has been brought to
my attention. I have been asked to add a reply about the importance
of anonymity and the topic being discussed.
ANONYMITY is the backbone of any 12 step program. It is the assurance
by ones peers that what they say about themselves, their problems and
what they do is not "OPEN FOR DISCUSSION". It is a personal matter
and everyone makes their own choice as to who knows about them and
how much.
There can be a real problem with a note of this type bcause it is
OPEN to DEC World and not everyone is aware of how important anonymity
is. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT NOT EVERYONE FEELS THE SAME WAY ABOUT
ALCOHOL, ALCOHOLICS, DRUGS, ETC.
|
| 29.48 | QUESTIONS | WILVAX::VALLIERE | THE GEMINI KID | Fri Sep 05 1986 03:08 | 119 |
| I have the questions!!!!! After I briefly remark on .47
re: .47 Anonymity is personal choice. I think we all understand
the possible problems that could arise. I feel that what
we are trying to accomplish here, is a place that people
that need assistance can ask freely and they stand a
better chance if we open ourselves to them.
Those that chose to use information extracted from this
note to intentionally hurt someone that's trying to help
themselves and or help others are actually suffering with
their own type of problem and should seek professional
help. By intentionally exposing anothers history to people
that may not have access to these notes, they are hiding
behind the shield of anothers past with sick hopes of gaining
ground on that person, perhaps to discredit them enough to
overtake them in their mutual interest in a certain job.
I am under the pretense that "well" people don't act in this
manner and also a "well person" can most always see through
peoples attempts to discredit other's.
I am not a literary genius, but I have tried to express
my thoughts on the previous note. I still have no problem
giving away my anonymity in this manner, but we must all
consider that more than one sick person may be on the latter.
*************************************************************
*****************NOW FOR THE QUESTIONS !!!!******************
*************************************************************
Are you an alcoholic ?
To answer this question, ask yourself the following questions
and answer them as honestly as you can.
yes no
#1 Do you lose time from work due to
drinking? ( ) ( )
#2 Is drinking making your home life
unhappy? ( ) ( )
#3 Do you drink because you are shy
with other people? ( ) ( )
#4 Is drinking affecting your reputa-
-tion? ( ) ( )
#5 Have you ever felt remorse after
drinking? ( ) ( )
#6 Have you gotten into financial
difficulties as a result of
drinking? ( ) ( )
#7 Do you turn to lower companions and
an inferior environment when drinking? ( ) ( )
#8 Does your drinking make you careless of
your family's welfare? ( ) ( )
#9 Has your ambition decreased since
drinking? ( ) ( )
#10 Do you crave a drink at a definite
time (daily,weekly,monthly)? ( ) ( )
#11 Do you sometimes want a drink the
next morning? ( ) ( )
#12 Does drinking cause you to have
difficulty in sleeping? ( ) ( )
#13 Has your efficiency decreased since
drinking? ( ) ( )
#14 Is drinking jeopardizing your job or
business? ( ) ( )
#15 Do you drink to escape from worries or
trouble? ( ) ( )
#16 Do you drink alone? ( ) ( )
#17 Have you ever had a loss of memory as
a result of drinking? ( ) ( )
#18 Has your physician ever treated you
for drinking? ( ) ( )
#19 Do you drink to build up your self-
confidence? ( ) ( )
#20 Have you ever been to a hospital or
institution on account of drinking? ( ) ( )
If you answered yes to any one of the questions
there is a definite warning that you may be alcoholic.
If you have answered yes to any two, the chances are
that you are an alcoholic.
If you have answered yes to three or more, you are
definitely an alcoholic.
I believe some of the questions are outdated and
will continue to search for the most recent dated
ones.
dennis
|
| 29.49 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Reality is frequently inaccurate | Fri Sep 05 1986 03:15 | 20 |
| Re: .48 and anonymity
Nobody had better use the information in this conference to persecute
anyone. See rule 2 below.
Steve
================================================================================
Note 1.1 Introduction 1 of 3
QUARK::LIONEL "Reality is frequently inaccurate" 100 lines 26-AUG-1986 00:11
-< Welcome! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. No part of this conference may be transmitted to any other
party without explicit permission of the entry's author(s).
This includes posting entries in other conferences, printing
entries and giving the copy to another person, forwarding entries
by MAIL to another person, etc. Of course, you are free to do
what you want with your own entries. It is the violation of
this rule that destroyed a similar conference in the past.
|
| 29.50 | Confidentiality not guaranteed! | HOMBRE::CONLIFFE | | Fri Sep 05 1986 11:26 | 16 |
| I hate to burst anyone's bubble (or is that another note ?(-:) but ask yourself
"Would you put a hard copy of your responses on your office wall?". Your office
is probably more private than this conference. This IS a public forum, and you
have no way of knowing who is reading the notes and responses. And the quoted
rule ("Thou shalt not use the materials in this conference for persecution")
has the same legal strength as the "Not responsible for Hats and Coats" signs
in restaurants, namely none whatsoever.
I think this conference serves a useful purpose, and I'm glad to see all the
"sharing" of feelings and debate that is going on. Hell, once I have something
useful to say, I'll even add notes of my own! But there is no confidentiality
here, by definition.
We now return you to the conference already in progress!
Nigel
|
| 29.51 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Reality is frequently inaccurate | Fri Sep 05 1986 13:15 | 11 |
| Re .50:
You are right, of course - my intent was to warn people that
distributing notes from this conference without the author's
permission was a no-no. There are, unfortunately, no penalties
we can assess for violations of the policy.
So you should not post anything here that would cause you harm
if arbitrary people were to read it. That's the tradeoff we make
by having this be a non-restricted conference.
Steve
|
| 29.52 | conference | ODIXIE::JTATE | Easy does it | Mon Sep 15 1986 12:58 | 9 |
| There is now a `members only' conference for recovering
alcoholics/addicts, those who feel they have problems and need help,
and those who have living problems due to being close with someone
who has these problems. If you would like to take part in this
conference contact GRECO::GORDON or ODIXIE::JTATE. The conference
is ODIXIE::AA.
jerry
|
| 29.53 | RE:29.38 | PLANET::MCCURDY | | Tue Nov 04 1986 13:24 | 7 |
| RE: .38
HAVING A GENETIC TENDENCY PRELOADS THE GUN, HOWEVER TENDENCY OR
NOT IF YOU ABUSE ALCOHOL LONG ENOUGH IT WILL GET YOU.
TOM MCCURDY
ANOTHER FRIEND OF BILL W.
|
| 29.54 | Hot off the press......... | GORDON::GORDON | | Wed Nov 19 1986 08:58 | 189 |
|
Published in the BOSTON GLOBE, Tuesday, November 18, 1986, on the front page
of the Business section and copied without permission:
ADDICTS IN THE WORKPLACE: LONELY AND FEARFUL
Jane Meredith Adams, Globe Staff
At the beginning, Elliot Brown drank alcohol because it
made him feel good. As a teenager, he'd mix up a cocktail
at home with his father, or go out to a bar, where the booze
made him talkative with women.
He told himself he drank to have fun, and that it wasn't
a problem. He didn't know he was becoming addicted.
The years rolled by. Brown drank often, enjoying the
release it gave him. He became dependent upon the release.
By the end of his drinking history, he was sneaking nips all
through the day. Before going to work in the morning at
Digital Equipment Corp., where he is a technical writer,
he'd pour vodka into his coffee. Drinking didn't make him
feel good then, he remembers. He drank to throw up, so his
stomach wouldn't feel so bad.
He knew he had to stop. He and his wife were talking
about separation, and he knew that meant he wouldn't see his
young daughter much. At age 35, about 18 years after he
started drinking, he turned to his employer for help.
"I went to work one day and walked into my supervisor's
office and said 'I'm an alcoholic and I can't stop drinking
and I need some time off to go to the hospital,'" Brown
recalls. "I think I knocked her right off her chair."
Experts estimate that one in 10 persons is addicted to
alcohol or other drugs, but data are difficult to come by.
Many addicts and alcoholics will deny they have a problem.
About 300,000 people in the state are addicted to
alcohol, or about 7 percent of the population above the age
of 18, according to the state Division of Alcoholism and
Drug Rehabilitation. A New England trade group in the
construction industry puts the number higher: It estimates
that one in five in its field is addicted to alcohol or
other drugs.
Of these numbers, a tiny percentage - Alcoholics
Anonymous puts it at 1 in 34 - will do battle with their
addiction and win, a day at a time. These recovering people
are in the workplace by the thousands, but many of the say
they feel isolated. They are often secretive about their
pasts, fearing ridicule, scorn and even loss of their jobs
if their histories of addiction are revealed.
"When I came back from treatment I started telling some
people what I had done," says J.B., a recovering marijuana
addict who works for a high-technology company. The
reaction was mixed, he says, and some people didn't want to
associate with him anymore. "You're a drug addict and even
though you're recovering, the stigma is still there," he
says.
Suspicion surrounds the recovering addict, says a Boston
lawyer who is recovering from an addiction to cocaine and
alcohol. He says someone told a client of his: "He's an
addict and an alcoholic and you can't trust him."
Alcoholism and drug addiction are diseases, according to
the American Medical Association, but many recovering people
say they are not treated in the workplace as people with an
illness. Co-workers often consider them "morally inferior,"
weak-willed and irresponsible, they say.
Many recovering people say the stigma is greatest against
drug addicts. "Drugs are still seen as a black problem and
alcohol as a white problem," says Katie Portis, director of
Women Inc., a Roxbury drug treatment center. Women addicts
face the most prejudice, she says. People "have a hard time
hearing that women are in trouble," she says.
The reasons why some people develop the diseases of
alcoholism and drug addiction are not solidly understood.
Genetics may play a strong part, as does environment. "I
don't think we have the story in yet whether it's nature or
nurture," says Dr. James J. Lukes, treatment program
director at Mount Pleasant Hospital in Lynn. Both factors
would explain why the majority of alcoholics and addicts
have at least on alcoholic or addicted parent, says Lukes.
HELP IN THE WORKPLACE
To help each other recover in the workplace, some
recovering addicts and alcoholics have started Narcotics
Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings at their
companies.
At Digital, AA meets every day at several sites; AA at
New England Telephone Co. meets twice a week. Across the
state, 1,400 AA groups meet weekly at all hours of the day;
600 NA groups do the same across New England. For those who
work with alcoholics and addicts, help is available through
Al-Anon and Nar-Anon, programs for people whose lives are
affected by other people's addictions.
Relatively few companies in New England have programs to
help recovering addicts and alcoholics, according to Barbara
Feinstein, president of People to People Associates, a
Lexington company that runs Employee Assistance Programs.
"It's a hard and slow sell in Massachusetts," says
Feinstein.
Yet companies have enormous power to get people sober and
clean and help them to stay that way.
When confronted by a supervisor, many addicts will seek
treatment. "Most people will lose their families before
they'll lose their jobs," says Feinstein. And she sites
studies by the National Council on Alcoholism and the
Conference Board that show that if addicted people are
identified and offered programs in the workplace, their
chances of recovery are 80 percent.
Says William Hartigan, a vice president of the Mediplex
Group in Wellesley, operates of Spofford Hall treatment
center in Spofford, N.H.,: "Work-related attitudes toward
drinking and the recovery process are an essential part of
how well a person will do."
N.E. TELEPHONE'S PROGRAM
Among those area companies that have programs for
recovering people, New England Telephone stands out. The
company runs a two-week in-house day treatment program for
addicts as well as counseling groups on company time for
people who live with addicts. After treatment, recovering
employees are counseled for 18 months. Last year, 700 of
the company's 27,000 employees were enrolled in the 18-month
program.
The transition back to work can be difficult. When
recovering people are open about the drug treatment they
have received, "everybody's issues come out," says Gerry
McKenna, an engineer and a recovering alcoholic who has been
trained to counsel alcoholics. Says Ed F., a recovering
alcoholic who drank for 34 years, "Almost the first thing
people are going to start telling you is their own drinking
experience."
Co-workers may feel defensive about their own drinking or
drug use and judgmental of addicts, recovering people say.
Those who have the most trouble dealing with recovering
people, says McKenna, are people who grew up with an
alcoholic parent and feel rageful toward all alcoholics.
And some supervisors may start to subtly derail a
recovering person's career. One woman who is recovering
from addictions to marijuana, amphetamines and alcohol told
her manager that she had been in a drug treatment program
and found the reaction initially positive. Then she
discovered that her manager was shielding her from difficult
projects and telling her co-workers not to put her under
stress because she had a "personal problem." The woman
ultimately complained to the personnel department.
Some recovering people find socializing on and off the
job to be awkward. "At departmental parties, I used to
drink quite a bit," says a recovering alcoholic at Prime
Computer Inc., whose department celebrates project
completions with beer blasts. Now, "when beer is
free-flowing and free," she says, "I get anxious." Many
recovering people find they have to develop new friends to
get away from their former crowd of drug users.
POWERFUL FEELINGS EMERGE
Sobriety brings out powerful feelings in the recovering
person, who in the past may have relied on chemicals to
suppress those feelings. When McKenna got sober at
Honeywell Inc. he says he felt "34 years old going on 13"
and "flooded with emotions." He had only told a few people
about his sobriety and felt "enormous paranoia," he says.
"I thought when I was transferred to Framingham it was a
conspiracy," he remembers. "The reality was the job in
Newton had closed out." What he would have liked, he says,
was a chance to talk openly about what he was feeling in an
atmosphere of trust, where supervisors also were being open
about their prejudices.
Ron H., a recovering alcoholic and firefighter,
reassessed his career after sobriety. In his 40s, he
enrolled in Boston College and plans to become a counselor
when he takes early retirement from the fire department. He
puts his sobriety and peace of mind first today. "Nowadays
I have to feed by soul," he says.
Many recovering people don't have jobs to go back to. Ed
F., who works in the insurance business, was unable to keep
a job during the last five years of his drinking. At a job
interview when newly sober, he told the interviewed, "If you
don't believe alcoholism is a disease this is going to be a
very brief interview." He go the job but says, "I could feel
the eyes of that office for several months."
Elliot Brown doesn't hide his recovery at work. Sober
for five years, he keeps a sign on his desk that says
"alcoholic in residence." Getting off the booze has been the
best thing that's ever happened to him, he says. His
relationship with his wife has turned around "180 degrees,"
and he is grateful that his supervisor and Digital stood by
him.
By being open, he says, "I'm trying to show other people
who may have a problem that they have nothing to fear in
doing something about the problem."
|
| 29.55 | Personal Experience | NEXUS::C_THWEATT | TWEETY | Fri Jan 23 1987 13:09 | 26 |
| I have a 16 year old daughter who was put in an alcohol/drug treatment
center in Texas. She has been there for 7 mos. and will probably
be in there several more. A person cannot truly understand how
painful alcoholism/drug abuse is until they have been through it
themselves or through someone they love. AA groups have the best
information available. If you suspect chemical dependency, it is
extremely important to read about it to get the facts. In my case,
my daughter had lived with her father for the past four years.
He was aware of the problem for the last two of those years but
for unknown reasons chose to deny it. She was sent to me on a day's
notice and a month later I was forced to put her into treatment.
After everything I have learned, I am certain that if her problem
had been treated sooner, she would not be going through the hell
she is now. I have seen my daughter turn from a beautiful, giving
person into someone I didn't even recognize at the time I put her
in.
For all of you who have children whatever age, I cannot emphasize
strongly enough the need to gather all the information you can to
learn about chemical dependency. I was like everyone else and told
myself that it couldn't happen to my family. I have gone through
more pain in the last 7 months than I ever thought possible and
though I can learn about the disease and find ways not to enable
my daughter to stay sick, I can do absolutely nothing to help her.
She has to do that for herself and at 16 that truth breaks my heart.
|
| 29.56 | | ZEPPO::MAHLER | I drank WHAT? - Socrates | Fri Jan 23 1987 14:01 | 5 |
|
Is the AA file still alive?
I can't seem to locate it and WAS a member !
|
| 29.57 | alcoholism among religions | NEXUS::C_THWEATT | TWEETY | Fri Jan 23 1987 19:07 | 13 |
| re: 30
I went through an Outward Bound Program that was connected to my
daughter's primary treatment and one of the speakers said that
the Jewish people had the lowest rate of alcoholism because of their
respect for it. The Baptists (of which my father was a minister)
have the highest because of their hell fire and damnation attitude
about it and the Catholics had a very high incidence of alcoholism
because of their relaxed attitude towards it. This is evidently
a new study that has been done and found it very interesting and
made a lot of sense.
|
| 29.58 | Oh no!! How did I get here? | MTV::VALLIERE | GEMINI KID | Wed Jan 28 1987 01:41 | 8 |
|
RE:56
Mike it's still alive and well. I believe they were having
system problems for a while, but they should be taken care
of by now.
dennis
|
| 29.59 | An Alcoholics Mom | KRYPTN::ALLAN | | Wed Sep 09 1987 15:18 | 12 |
| We have a 21 year old son who we have just recently found out
is cross addicted to alcohol and other drugs (pot, cocaine).
After much heartbreak (for all of us) he sought help and is
now getting a sense of direction and some control over his life
again. It is a long, painful, uphill climb. He firmly believes
that A.A. has a program that works and he is making it work for
him. He has a long way to go but he has taken the first step!
If there is any information about the program he is in that would
help someone else, please let me know.
Betty A
|
| 29.60 | | CURIE::VERRIER | | Thu Sep 10 1987 14:30 | 13 |
| I know that they have all types of literature at the meetings, etc
that your son could pick up for you. My ex-roomate started going
to A.A. about 10 months ago, and she also started going to N.A.
(Narcotics) and she has been clean and sobor for the whole 10 months.
She was addicted to drugs just a much as the alcohol. But when
she finally realized that she had a problem, she went and did something
about it, and I seem to remember seeing some literature that she
brought home that said something about meetings for the parents
children, and/or spouses of alcoholics. Look into it, I know that
it would do you and your family a world of good.
Good luck,
Kim
|
| 29.62 | No way | CURIE::VERRIER | | Wed Sep 23 1987 16:26 | 8 |
| Mike, as far as I know, they make use of counseling, but no drugs
to inhibit cravings. That would be sheer stupidity as far as I
am concerend. NA is quite like AA, they have individual counseling,
group counseling, and everyone gets a chance to talk. From what
I used to see from my roomate, it really works, but only if you
want it to. The only sad thing is that now she is addicted to the
meetings. She cannot miss a meeting without thinking that she is
going to screw up....her whole life is work and NA and AA meetings.
|
| 29.64 | For more information: upcoming radio series | HARDY::KENAH | Giselle gives me the Wilis... | Fri Oct 02 1987 15:26 | 73 |
| WGBH Radio (a National Public Radio station located in Boston - 89.7 Mhz on the
FM dial) is broadcasting a twelve part series on Alcohol called "Thinking About
Drinking."
(For those of you outside the Boston area, check your local NPR listings
for time and station.)
An article in WGBH's monthly magazine states "...[P]roducer David Freudberg
hopes his new radio series "Thinking About Drinking" will help demystify
the disease of alcoholism. Avoiding the ill-informed moralizing and callous
humor that often accompany discussions of the subject, Freudberg is aiming
his straightforward and unsentimental message toward the friends and families
of alcoholics -- `People,' he explains, `who have watched this disease ravage
human beings and who seek a way out of alcoholism's grip.'"
The program airs on 'GBH at 6:30 PM, Monday through Thursday, starting October
5th, 1987. A synopsis of each segment follows.
1.Monday, October 5th - "The Magic Potion" - This series begins by putting
alcohol into cultural context and examining how alcohol works its way
through the body, altering human consciousness in the process.
2.Tuesday, October 6th - "The Terrible Trap" - Physicians, counselors, and
recovering alcoholics narrate the hellish descent into booze dependency, the
pattern of denial common to substance abusers, and the horrifying
consequences of excessive drinking.
3.Wednesday, October 7th - "The Lady Drinks" - Female alcoholics experience
their own special brand of problems and discrimination. This survey
documents the double standard and includes comments from former First Lady
Betty Ford.
4.Thursday, October 8th - "The Road to Recovery" - Intensely powerful
first-person accounts by three people who came back from alcoholism sober
and humbled.
5.Monday, October 12th - "One Step at a Time" - The history, philosophy,
and healing magic of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) with the voices of old-timers
and younger members of the Fellowship.
6.Tuesday, October 13th - "The Family Disease" - The sinister generation
to generation cycle of alcoholism, and the problems for children of
alcoholics and for sober spouses.
7.Wednesday, October 14th - "Teach Your Children Well" - A look at the
teenage alcohol/drug scene, the effects of alcohol on developing bodies
and minds, the impact of alcohol advertising on kids, and the dangers
to youngsters raised by addicted parents.
8.Thursday, October 15th - "Business and Booze" - The high rate of on-
the-job accidents and fuzzy corporate decisions, plus workplace intervention
recovery programs and recent trends to restrict drinking on the job.
9.Monday, October 19th - "Latino Perspectives" - The severe rate of
alcoholism among American Hispanics and the success of family-involved
treatment are discussed.
10.Tuesday, October 20th - "A Social History of Inebriation" - The
controversial debate over drinking and its consequences, examining early
temperance movements and Prohibition, through the comments of historians,
dramatizations, and the archival recordings of evangelist Billy Sunday.
11.Wednesday, October 21st - "Driving Under the Influence" - Innovative
sentencing and treatment options for drunk drivers; Governor Michael
Dukakis discusses his brother's death.
12.Thursday, October 22nd - "Media Images of Alcohol" - Hollywood directors
discuss the voluntary effort to reduce "gratuitous" drinking in movies
and television, and alcohol advertising analyst Jean Kilbourne is
interviewed.
|
| 29.65 | | PHENIX::JEWETT | | Mon Nov 02 1987 11:25 | 9 |
| -< LIVING PROOF >-
Coming from a family where my Dad is in fact an alcoholic - What
you have said is true. There are six of us in our family - 4 females,
2 males, only 1 male is following the same pattern as Dad.
It is fact (unfortunately), that alcoholism is hereditary.
I am still struggling to understand all of it's effects on what
it has done to me growing up.
|
| 29.66 | The Ritual | AIMHI::BUZZELL | | Wed May 18 1988 12:03 | 103 |
|
Hi,
My name is Laura Buzzell and I have never written in this note
file befor. I have read all of the replies and find them very
interesting. I have found through reading that I have many of the
same views and feelings as a lot of you do. I am not an alcoholic,
however, my father and both sets of grandparents, and my sister
are. There has been such a history of physical addiction that I
am afraid to drink. I have written a lot about my experiences,
one that I would like to share. The paper I have written is titled,
"The Ritual"
"Humor me" is what I always cry out in extreme situations, or when
I'm about to blow up in somebody's face. It was from my father
that I learned this philosophy, a man who inside had emotions that
overwheled him to the point he could only find reality in a bottle,
followed by a joke. He taught many people that humor in time of
difficulty will help to ease the pain.
It happened much too quickly. Everybody watched while he ate
his seemingly delightful dinner. We all knew he was overweight
and had a heart condition, yet we piled his plate with starchy,
stringy spaghetti.
"Pass the worms dad." Half of the time he wouldn't hear me;
"Dad, pass the WORMS!" I always told my dad to get his hearing
tested but he never heard me for some reason; "What's that you say
Laura?"
"Never mind dad."
I smiled at him as he slurped the spaghetti on his round babyish
face with delicacy. Spaghetti was such a joyful dinner. His belly
hit the table as he proceeded to dismiss himself, knocking over
my milk. Electric impulses rushed to my brain, then back to my
reflexes as I dashed from the table to the roll of paper towels
that seemed miles away. Thud. Impulses switching from hand-eye
coordination to the empy sound-thud. Instantaneously whipping my
head around, I choked at what I saw. He had, just minutes ago,
wiped the spaghetti off his face; and now it involuntarily marked
his colorless face, once agian. Yet, everybody who watched knew
he wouldn't be wiping the spaghetti off, somebody else would.
The silence was scary.
"Father, father -- dad, thiiiss is no time for selective hearing.
You could have at least waited until I was done with my dinner,
dad. I suppose you really dind't ave a say in the matter, if your
heart decided to take a vacation without letting you know. Knowing
you dad, your heart probably did try to tell you but you probably
said, "Hey heart, what's that you trying to say?" I told you to
get your hearing checked you fool.
Always red in the face from drinking, he was now white from
powder. Absurd as it was, I felt glad to see the spaghetti was
gone. I realized though that while I was overcome with insomnia,
he was forever bound to silence, tranquility, peace, whatever one
dared to call it.
The parlor was as empty as the sound of the thud too, except
that it contained within it walls a past life, my father. Adding
to the emptiness was black; Black skirts, pants, shirts and a coffin.
It was ironic that life-full flowers surrounded him and his black
coffin, I wanted to cry out, "He doesn't like lilacs, he likes roses!"
I couldn't wear black . I refused to believe I had to or should.
It was a ritual I didn't want to follow, and one I'm sure my dad
wouldn't have wanted me to follow either because humor played no
part.
It was different when I read the nightly obituaries. I had
always thought, "Another one bites the dust." Sure, another one
did bite the dust, but it was different now, becuase I knew him.
I knew him not as a dead person, like all the ones in the obituary
page, but as a caring and living person who sought happiness in
a few moments of laughter followed by a bottle.
Kneeling down, I stared. It was an empty stare, though. Whenever
things get too complicated, the button in my mind switches to warning
and then to empty. Even though I couldn't think, I heard the distant
sobs. The zombie-like people watched one lady go into hysterics.
My mind was still on empty, so I couldn't turn to see. I was glad.
Footsteps approached. She began to talk to him. I wanted to giver
her some advice.
"You really should see a doctor about your problem. Remember,
he can't hear you, he's dead." My mind hit the warning button again,
as they dragged me to the perfectly arranged rows of chairs, to
end the ritual, to end it all.
Many of your who read this may think this story is more about
death, but it is about an alcoholic who was a person. Even when
they die, mixed feeling of love and hate are hard to deal with.
It took me a long time to stop feeling quilty about hating the
alcoholic part of my father. I couldn't understand how I could
love somebody and hate them at the same time. My final message is
that alcoholics are people who are inflicted with a disease, it
took me a long time to see the difference between the people and
the disease. Thanks for reading.
Laura
|
| 29.67 | How to live with an Alcoholic | NCVAX1::FOULKROD | | Tue Aug 23 1988 16:22 | 19 |
| All I know about alcoholics is that it sucks being in a family with
one, especially a parent. My father was a drunk for as long as
I remember. He went to "treatment" about 12 times, NO LIE!! We
lived on welfare commodity food - yuck! When he was dry, he was
the most moralistic,self-righteous person I think I have ever met.
Yet to this day, he has a hard time facing my brothers (I have 7),
my sisters (I have 5)and I. My mother, god bless her, died 22 years
ago. God, was watching out for her I think. He wanted us all to
be good boys and girls, yet we were exposed to some of the worst
conditions morally, financially, mentally, emotionally, etc. The
best way to deal with an alcoholic is to not ENABLE them. Enabling
them allows it to go on forever and ever and ever. Because they
have 1,001 excuses courtesy of all those enablers around them. Of
all the treatment plans my father attended, Albert Lea MN had the
best program because it included the family in intense therapy for
3-4 days. It was a "Say what you have to say" type therapy.....that
3 days of therapy did so much to help set me free of the guilt,
co-dependent behavior that alcoholics depend on you to have so they
can keep being an alcoholic.
|
| 29.68 | Another plug for Al-Anon | JULIET::THOMPSON_LI | CHILL OUT BAAAABEEEE | Wed Nov 09 1988 19:45 | 21 |
| RE: .67
Although some of my peers in Al-Anon disapprove of the methods used
in a Family Intervention Programs (which includes treating the family
& informing them in how their behavior has helped to enable the
alcoholic) I must admit that I personally found the program to be
beneficial to me. I was introduced and advised to attend Al-Anon
meetings, which have been very enlightening and have helped to sort
through the confusion experienced while living in a dysfunctional
family system.
Although the alcoholics in my life are still battling against their
addictions I have been freed to give up obsessing over "what I can
do to help them" and get on with my own recovery. To those of you
in a similar situation, give Al-Anon a try (but go for a few weeks
-- it sometimes takes a while to feel comfortable with the program
& not all Al-Anon meetings are the same. Some have specific issues
which they address i.e. Adult Children, etc.)
It Works if You Let It.
|
| 29.69 | ACOA notesfile, and CODA | PARITY::SMITH | Penny Smith, TWO/B5, 247-2203 | Thu Nov 10 1988 11:00 | 14 |
| There is a members only notesfile called ACOA for adult children of
alcoholics, fyi.
To gain access you need to write to Rita Tillson at MEIS::
For those codependent folks that were part of the alcoholics family, there
is a group called CODA (Codependents Anonymous) that meets several times
a week in Concord Mass as well as some other towns. For more information
about CODA you can read topic #67 in the ACOA notesfile, or contact me at
PARITY:: or at FOOZLE:: or at SIMVAX:: (in the process of moving to a new
Andover facility), or at old dtn 247-2203, or new dtn 240-6560 after Nov
21.
Penny
|
| 29.70 | ALCOHOL | ACE::MOORE | | Mon Jul 16 1990 20:13 | 16 |
|
It is useless for alcoholics to worry about the future for there will
soon be no future for them to worry about.
Found this saying from this person. Thought it was a pretty good
statement.
I hope people realize that there are people that need help in this
area. This is just one area that some people may struggle. My prayer
is that people will be deliverd from this and be set free. And to
live a more enjoyable and healthy life.
Ray
|