Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    It's going to be expensive, so I hear - not exactly what you'd
    pick up for a quick read.  Also, the controversial section about
    retailers supposedly selling pornogphy has been removed.
    				Steve

           I thought we only have to pay for the cost of the paper.

    Check the latest Playboy (August?) for a lot of stuff on the
    Meese report.  I think I saw a price of $2700 quoted.
    				Steve

	Let's pool our money and one person can type it into this
	conference:-).
	
	Volunteers?
	
	Mike

    The report is available for a mere $35.00.  The AP story I saw early
    in the day listed a number to call where you could indeed use a
    credit card to purchase the report.
    
    - M

    I can do without three thousand pages of Edwin Meese's commission
    recommending violation of the right of free speech.  As far as I'm
    concerned, the only thing it's good for is a suppoly of ammunition
    in a spitball war.
    
    The thing that makes it even less easy to swallow is that one of
    the two dissenters from the commission was a woman.
    
    Dave W.

    The last report I heard, the blue book contains *no* pictures. 
    Also the list of stores was pruned out.
    
    - Vikas

    re; .4
    
    I volunteer to type in part of it.... :^)
    

                                                                    
    I knew I had saved this someplace!  Extract from AP wire story found
    while cleaning out my directory today:
    
         "The two-volume 1,968-page report is available to the public
         starting at noon today for $35 a copy by contacting the
         Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office,
         Washington, D.C. 20402. Include the stock number 027-000-01259-1.
         Credit card orders may be placed by calling 202-783-3238." 

    The following article was posted originally in the usenet.  I am
    reposting it here.  Please take a look at the remarks made by the
    chairman of the commsion H E Hudson, "If we relied exclusively on
    scientific data for every one of our findings, I'm afraid all of our
    work would be inconclusive." 
(As quoted in the _SF Chronicle_, 10 July.)

Posted by: decwrl!ucbvax!brahms!weemba
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Xref: decwrl net.politics:17978 net.singles:14970
 
This week's _The New Republic_ tells about one of the victims of porno-
graphy that the Meese Commission heard from, a 38 year old Bible carry-
ing male:.
	"I am a victim of pornography ...  At age 12, I was a
	typically normal, healthy boy.  My life was filled with
	normal activities and hobbies.  All that changed the
	following summer when I went to visit relatives, a
	married couple, who decided to teach me about sex....
	I saw a Playboy magazine for the first time in my life.
	All the trouble began a few months later, back at my
	mother's home.  ...  I found a hidden deck of cards.
	All 52 cards depicted hard-core pornography. ... These
	porno cards aroused me and gave me a desire I never had
	before."
	The witness then detailed his subsequent record ...,
	ascribable [by him] to the fatal deck of cards.  From
	shoplifting, he descended to masturbation, anal inter-
	course with another teenage boy, peeping on his mother,
	"oral and finger stimulation on my parents' dogs,"
	reading ... Playboy ..., taking drugs, ... "watching
	R-rated movies on HBO and Showtime cable."
	In conclusion ..., "If it weren't for my faith in God,
	and the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, I would now poss-
	ibly be a pervert, an alcoholic, or dead.  I am a vic-
	tim of pornography."
 
This utter idiocy explains quite obviously why the commission, in the words
of its chairman H E Hudson, used "common sense" to link pornography with vio-
lence.  As Hudson said, "If we relied exclusively on scientific data for ev-
ery one of our findings, I'm afraid all of our work would be inconclusive."
(As quoted in the _SF Chronicle_, 10 July.)
 
Translation: There was no evidence, so they made it up as they went along.
 
ucbvax!brahms!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
    

    Wow, I've read Playboy a time or two.  I never would have picked one up
    if I'd had any idea I was risking becoming a gutter-level degenerate
    and ruining my entire life.  I'm very glad I read the preceding note so
    I know never to pick up a Playboy magazine again.  Wonder if Hugh
    knoweth what he hath wrought?	(^; 
    
    					(^:	Positive Pat	:^)

    
    P.S.  Is Penthouse safe?

    Oh, silly one, no Righteous Christian lady would, could, EVER enjoy
    sex!  Any loyal Falwellian knows that! 
    
    					(^:	Positive Patricia	:^)
    
    

    Coming to you from the *very* Rev. Jerry's home town (Lynchburg; home
    of Liberty University, and Thomas Road Baptist Church) I can assure you
    he would feel the need to save us all if he knew this conferences
    existed..... :-) Honestly, folks, you've got to live here to believe
    it!

    I'll write Jerry and ask him to send you some literature.

    re 19
    Pat, I don't think that's the kind of help Don was looking for...
    
    re 18	... or was it, don?  :^)	
    
    

	...not to interrupt the (admittedly hilarious) flow of the conversation,
    but I was just wondering why Frank Zappa wasn't on this presidential
    commission?  After all, he was the main arbitrator against last year's
    attempts to ban record albumns which contained "pornographic material",
    and was able to speak for me, if not alot of Americans concerning the
    pornography issue.

	Just what exactly did happen to all of the quasi-liberal thinkers
    of the sixties and seventies?  Have they all been effectively eliminated
    from the airwaves by such events as this politically motivated porno-purge?

							-DAV0

    I just read in the Nashua Telegraph yesterday that the report contains
    a summary of a book titled "Tying Up Rebecca."  Ha ha ha ha ha ha
    ....

    There was no "commission" about records - only a hearing to which
    several people were invited to speak, including Zappa, who in my
    opinion did nobody any good by insulting the "Washington Wives".
    Since there was no proposal before congress about censoring records,
    many congressmen wondered aloud why such a hearing even existed.
    
    In the current case we have a real commission, formed of people
    whom Meese thought would obtain the results he was looking for.
    That there was so much dissention among those members should make
    it obvious that the report is a joke, but unfortunately the people
    who want to tell us all what to do don't see it that way.
    
    				Steve

        Re:  .18, .22

        Gee, Don.  You didn't  give  an  address  to  send  for  the
        pictures!   Will  you  accept  Canadian currency?  Does that
        plain brown wrapping cost extra?  If the spies in  the  USPS
        ever  knew  what was being delivered ...  well they still do
        have tar and feathers in the South, know whut I mean?

        Seriously, if morality  swings  like  a  pendulum  back  and
        forth,  does  anyone  think  that we're near the end of this
        ultra conservative swing?  Book burning and such is  getting
        too much like Farenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury anyone?).

        Steve

    re -1
    
	We got a heap o' tar-n-feathers down here.. but I must admit
     	ain't never seen a good ole tar-n-featherin done.  I s'pose
    	we could ad lib if we were of a mind to  :-)
    
    		Billie (I just couldn't resist drawlin a little)

re: -1,

	Waah, thas awrat, coze all maah kin ah fraam Allabaahmaah,

						-Mistaah MacLuah

When politicians want to do something about a situation, they pass a new law.
When they want to pretend that they're doing something about it, they form a
commission.  The commission investigates the "problem" until it is well out of
the headlines and then issues a report.  The report causes a brief stir in the
press and E-net notes files, after which it is never heard from again.  Nothing
happens until the next time the "problem" hits the newspapers, at which time a
new commission is appointed.

The Meese Commission was not the first one to "investigate" pornography, and
it's a safe bet that it won't be the last.  Just think of it as democracy's
way of satisfying the Moral Majority without intruding on your rights.

    Re: .28.
    
    I fear you are an optimist.  Mr Meese, as Attorney-General, has
    already announced that he intends to use the conclusions of "HIS"
    commission as license to do what they suggest.  He is going to attempt
    to make those conclusions the law of the land by prosecuting according
    to their precepts.  He is already looking for a case in which to
    try the "actors" in a Porn film for prostitution in blatant violation
    of the First Ammendment (and in blatant dis-regard of the fact that
    prostitution is not a federal offense).
    
    He apparently intends to base the official behavior of the Justice
    Department on the precept that the conclusions of "HIS" commission
    are true and legally binding, and he will attempt to convince the
    courts of this also.  He is in fact doing exactly what he has been
    castigating the courts for doing -- that they are not interpreting
    the Law but writing the Law by expansive decisions which go far
    beyond the intent of Congress.  Meese is doing the same thing.
    
    By selectively prosecuting (harrassing) according to his views,
    he can attempt to influence the courts, and he can perhaps frighten
    some would-be "violators" into not even trying in the first place,
    because they just don't want the hassle.  Every time that happens,
    he wins, and we all lose.

    re.-1
    
    Speaking of Falwell ... I watched his show a couple of nights ago,
    for laughs.  He was discussing the evils of alcohol; claiming that
    any amount of drinking was drinking to excess, that drinking made
    Americans "soft" and opened them to bigger and badder sins ... and
    he's calling for a second Prohibition.
    
    (Only this one's going to work!!!!!  "Waiting ... for the final
    solution to strength the strain ... waiting ... to smash in your
    windows and kick in your doors ....")
    
    Better lock them liquor cabinets, people!

re: -1,

	I like your solution to this whole mess Don, a sense of humor is the
    only hope we have of stabilizing this wacky pendulum called life.  Humor
    is not a product of hatred and paranoia, war can claim these; humor is a
    product of love and trust - nothing else.

	Humor is good because it excites people in a positive way.  If it
    happens to excite you in a negative way, then it is either bad humor,
    or something is really wrong with this picture.

	I say we all turn over a new leaf and try looking at this whole
    situation in a different light, face it: things aren't half so bad once
    you realize that sooner or later, we're all going to be dead anyway and
    there's nothing short of immortality that's going to change that.  Once
    you face that fact, you've got half the battle won, all you have left
    to figure out is how to keep from dying of boredom in the meantime.

	In conclusion, if people want to have their orgies, then by all means -
    they can **** themselves to their hearts content as far as I'm concerned,
    but just remember, your chances of surviving are much better if you put
    a rubber on it!

						-DAV0

    re .32 and .33
    
    About people letting other people do what they want ....
    The problem with this, in connections with the "religious right"
    and similiarly-thinking groups, is that they see a cause-and-effect
    relationship among things, which others might not see.  If you buy
    pornography, you are encouraging its existence ... if you encourage
    its existence, that means more chance that John and Jane Public's
    child will be exposed to it ... if that's the case, this child might
    (will?) become an anti-social, anti-American, anti-Christian adult.
    This adult brings his own evils into society, and the ball keeps
    rolling .... (until American falls into the clutches of the Evil
    Empire, USSR :-( )
    
    DAV0, couldn't agree with you more concerning this short-lived life
    of ours ... but many of these people I'm talking about are looking
    at eternity ... with God as a judge, ready to inflict the whole
    American society with various calamities for the sins of several.
    (Ever hear what some of the tv evangelists have to say about AIDS?)
    Acc.to them, we are here on this wacky planet being tested (a kind
    of cosmic Superbowl).
    
    These people know better than us, see what I mean?  They're
    *protecting* you and your children, by dictating what is right and
    wrong, good and evil.
    
    Gosh darnit!
    
    -DC
    
    

    re .32
    
    Hmmmmmmm.  I wasn't aware that one prepares to be tarred and
    feathered...  I assumed it was one of those things that happens
    spontaneously, usually with no warning - sorta like a good 'ole
    fashioned lynchin for stealin someone's cow or somethin.  Don, I
    believe you've shed a new light (with the presence oky jelly) on
    the art of tar-n-featherin'.... :-)
    
    I have another relatively humorous anecdote on something I heard
    the *very* Rev. Jerry preach (I hear much of his words of wisdom..
    not necessarily by choice, either...)  Would like to share it with
    y'all out there but wonder if it might be appropriate to start a
    new note for such stories???  Trust me, you're going to like this
    one!!  Perhaps a little teasing is appropriate???  For a mere $400
    you can......  How does that grab ya???
    

re: -1,

	...and don't forget.  There's also a group headed by Norman Lear
    (which I had mistakenly written off as another religious right organization
    of some sort at first) called "People For The American Way" which addresses
    the very issues of rights (both religious and otherwise) which the
    fundamentalists seem to want to take away.  I'll see if I can't dig up
    the address if anyone is interested...

						-DAV0

    Regarding the Meese commission:  One of their findings was that
    pornography leads to violence and perversion, right?  Well, they
    had to read REAMS of this disgusting material in order to make
    this decision, so WHO'S WATCHING THE COMMISSION MEMBERS?  I mean,
    they're bound to be raving lunatics by this time - killing their
    neighbors, torturing animals, raping small children...I say we'd
    better put all of them in custody and deprogram them before
    it gets out of hand!
    
    --Louise

    People who believe that pornography is dangerous may base  this
    belief on what they know about themselves.  It seems to me to be
    pretty intolerant to view them as dangerous people simply because
    they assume everyone is like them and the world needs to be protected
    form that.  History would indicate that *ANY* legislation in this
    area will be ineffectual.  I believe this is only a political gesture,
    and should get an appropriate political response.
    

Would-be censors believe that they will not be ruined by this material,
being how as they are firmly in league with Goodness and the Right.  It's
the great unwashed and unsaved rif-raf out there that need to be protected,
and up to such as the Reverend Wildmon to do the protecting.  It is an
elitist view, and they are the elite who would stand in loco parentis to us
all.  It seems the lesson about the mite in the neighbor's eye has ever
been lost on them, despite their incessant claims of biblical authority.