Conference 7.286::maynard

>Could anyone familiar with this tell me how this shortened school year benefits
>public education? 
    
    Having personally gone through the *wonderful* Maynard school system, I
    would be inclined to say IT DOESN'T!
    

    from what I understand the school day is measured by hours.  so if they
    attend a certain amount of hours each day it is considered a day and
    that is how they "get away with" so many 1/2 days off.
    
    i personally find half days a pain - from the standpoint of daycare and
    i personally see no benefit to anyone but the teachers - and do they
    have some specific reason for a half day???  i graduated class of '75
    and don't remember getting half days off - but then i am getting old
    and losing it sometimes..... 8^)
    
    -sandy
    

    
    Any day where children do not attend school is not counted as a school
    day. 1/2 days do count as school days. While school days are not
    measured in hours there is a Dept. of Education regulation that states
    a minimum amount of time students must in school in order to count it
    as a school day. 
    
    As for added benefit, that depends on what half days are used for. If
    the half days are used for professional development than the children
    certainly benefit from staff keeping up with the latest information on
    education. Usually professional development time is utilized to educate
    teachers and other staff in a particular area. I attended, as a school
    committee member, my community's last full professional day. the theme
    Special Education and the day began at 8:00 am with a speaker and a Q&A
    until lunch. After lunch a three tiered series of lectures/seminars
    were held. Staff had to attend 3 of these 1 1/2 hour slots and the day
    ended at 4:30. Usually lunch or post seminar time is utilized to update
    the teachers on union business.  
    	If the half days are for parent conferences then I guess you have
    to draw your own conclusions. I am personally opposed to taking kids
    out of school so parents can visit the teachers (but I haven't been
    able to convince the rest of my own committee or administration of
    this yet).
    	There is a proposal being put together in the town of Uxbridge that 
    I find intriguing. The Superintendent is proposing to do some fairly 
    radical things in order to increase the time on task of his students.
    He has proposed adding days to the beginning and end of the school
    year, eliminating some vacation time, and eliminating all
    non-educational functions from the school day (this includes moving
    things like professional development, school pictures, health exams,
    and anything else that detracts from education to weekends, holidays,
    and vacations). He believes that within the months of September to
    June he can add nearly 40 equivilant days to the school year.
    
    

    actually many many years ago, when I graduated from MHS ('59)
    we always got out at 1pm --- every single school day!
    

    What Judy says is correct.  Within the 8 to 1 school day we had
    one recess and no lunch.  It was kind of nice because you had
    the whole afternoon to go to your job or devote to sports or both.
    (And also, maybe get your homework done!)
    
    Virginia (MHS '53)
    

    RE: The old High School:
    
    I spent two years in the *old* high school, before the new school
    was built, and I very much agree with Virginia (370.5).  We went
    from 8 to 1, with detention starting at 2:30 if you needed it....
    
    This gave the high school students a full afternoon of work (I 
    worked at Bachrach's SuperMarket).  We had a recess, which was 
    run, I think, by the Science Club in my days, but there was no
    lunch.  I grew up on Thomas Street, just off Beacon Street, just
    off Florida Road, so the old High School was very close and I
    had an opportunity to grab a lunch before reporting to work or
    detention with no real problem.
    
    If you did detention, you (I) got to clap the erasures, dump the
    trash, or help Chesty Duggan set up the Gym for the next morning's
    classes.
    
    I can recall one afternoon when Jonathan Hansen and I had the honor
    of dumping the trash in the incinerator (it was just a big iron 
    thing behind the *old* high school).  Anyway, when we dumped the
    barrel into the incinerator, it kind of exploded and blew us all the
    way to the other side of the playground.  After that experience, we 
    both thought detention was kind of neat, and looked forward to the 
    chance to do it again!
    
    Frank (MHS '66)
       

    My brother was a graduate of 66'.  I thought the reason you
    attended school for these early hours was because you were
    doing double sessions because one of the schools had burnt.
    Can you refresh my memory??
    
    Brigit (Waluck) 
    

Re: Mike Gilbert

Thanks for the information you provided Mike.  Do you know offhand how many
early release days Holliston has?

My concern is this.  We constantly hear about the need of improvement in
the American public schools.  We are told how poorly we fare against other
industrialized countries in every single subject.  We've come to realize
the education we received as kids, isn't necessarily good enough to compete
against Japan, Germany and now the EEC.

We hear rumblings across the country that the school year should be lengthened.
The education reform package being bandied about in the State House proposes
that, I believe.  We hear of certain towns or cities discussing the possibility
of lengthening the school year by 40 days (Uxbridge).  I'm not necessarily
advocating that we extend the school year, but is it too much to ask that the
kids attend school for 180 FULL days?

I'd still like to know how the early release days enhance education.  Do the
teachers receive a stipend for attending certain seminars?  If so, is this 
right?  Are teachers *required* to do anything after the kids have left?  
Eighteen half days and 1 full professional day equal two FULL weeks of school
per year!

I think it is every parent's wish that their children be given an opportunity
to live a better life than they had.  How can this happen when we're losing 
the global market race?  Why does Maynard have to do something "because
everyone else is doing it?"  We can't afford this approach!  Let's take the 
initiative and do something creative as is happening in Uxbridge?  I think it's
Gloucester that offers a 1/2 day program on Saturdays that is totally voluntary.
The response has been positive.  

The time has come for this town to actually *do* something instead of talk 
about it.  The status quo and long range plans will not put out the fire.

					Steve
    
                            

    While I have a limited understanding of how the schools operate, I
    think the early release days are well-served.
    
    I think that most of the time is spent in staff meetings, staff
    development, professional development, and class preparation time.  I'm
    sure the good teachers take advantage of this time and use it as an
    investment for the regular classroom.
    
    If the time is well-spent, it improves the rest of the classroom hours.
    
    - dave

    The last note confirms the non-accountabilty of the early release days  
    by  defending them with admitted little knowledge.  The notes have all asked
    for reasons and have noted consistency when they were students.  The
    parents I've talked with do not feel this is helping their children's
    education and wonder  why their children are
    spending less and less time in school.   With the little understanding
    I have on the subject I can figure out that more  means less in this
    case.  Keep the kids in school.
        
 
    Facts:   Schooling       Early Release Days/yr     Total half/days
    -----    ---------       ------------------        ---------------
                           
             K-12             Present   (13)          169  half days
    
                              Proposed  (18)          234  half days
    
            
    Regards, Tom

Pardon?

You attack my personal observations but use it as a statement of confirmation
for non-accountability?

If this is a big issue with you, perhaps you shouldn't look to a Digital
conference for authoritative answers -- these questions are best answered
by the Superintendent of schools and the School Committee (both are accessible).
Apparently personal observations offered in good faith are not enough -- nor
is a civil discourse on the subject.

I dare say that if you care to make a judgement about any issue on a single
dimension, you can always make an easy decision.    

- dave

RE: .8

	No the teacher's don't recieve any additional stipend for attending 
professional development seminars. Some are paid additional stipends if they
are putting on one of the seminars but that rarely occurs within one's own
school district. Teacher's are usually required to attend professional 
development seminars and are paid their salary as you would be if you attended
a class here at DEC. In Holliston we run a full day at the beginning of the 
year. We then have 1 half-day per month per level and we attempt to coordinate
them among the levels so older kids are available to provide babysitting for
younger kids of working parents. 

I agree with Dave Griffin's earlier comments.

I've been to a number of Maynard School Committee meetings this year.  It is
clear that Dr. Ciardi has been working hard to get the system moving this
year.  Unfortunately, a school system is like an ocean liner; once stopped,
it takes a long time to get it going again. 

From everything I have heard, those half-days are VERY well spent.  They
help the teachers refresh their techniques, give them opportunities to
discuss academic issues and material with facilitation from outside, and
finally they help the teachers recharge their badly depleted "batteries". 

I am very happy with the work that Dr. Ciardi has started/accomplished in 
his 18-20 months in Maynard.  In particular, that includes the staff 
development days and his proposed expansion of that from 12 to 18 days.

My only gripe with him is that he hasn't pushed parents harder.  His
tactical reason is that he needs acceptance in order to get anything done. 
Perhaps that is true, but that leaves us with a chicken-and-egg problem. 

If enough parents demanded more challenging work out of the schools, it 
WOULD happen.  The problem is that there WEREN'T enough parents doing that, 
either to the faculty and administration OR to their own children.  

Today the situation is made worse by the fact that the parents who are most
demanding (like me) have been given another avenue to get that challenge
(choice).  With a daughter graduating from MHS next month and another
daughter who is a freshman at ABRHS, it is clear that my younger daughter is
being challenged much more than my older daughter was when she was a
freshman. 

So, from my perspective, if you want better schools, try organizing parents
to demand more, first from their own kids and second from the system.  But 
don't worry about the half-days.

:-)

John

Steve,

     For a general discussion of "half days" you could enter a note in
CNOTES::EDUCATION_ISSUES.
 
     While I also assume that the "half days" that kids are not in classrooms
are wisely and productively spent, I think that some of this argument misses
the point.  Is there some reason that the productive activities must  take
place in what otherwise could be classroom time?
     What I think is positive about the Uxbridge proposal is that it would
enable all of these productive activities to take place; there would still
be field trips, school photographs, fourth grade plays, and the like, all of
which have IMO, a very positive educational effect.  There would still
be teacher conferences, which IMO are totally essential, at least at the
elementary school level.  There could still be professional development
seminars and teacher discussion of issues.  BUT THEY WOULD NOT TAKE PLACE AT
THE EXPENSE OF CLASSROOM TIME.

re: .13

     While you're demanding more, why not demand MORE classroom time also?
 
Clay (a non-Maynardian)

Re: Note 370.14 by POWDML::SATOW

>>>     While you're demanding more, why not demand MORE classroom time also?

Sounds fine to me!  You lead the charge.  I'm right behind you.  

Seriously, I would rather focus on a more central issue: that there isn't
much challenge because parents either don't want it or don't know that they
have to demand it to get it.  Till that happens, I'll confine my demands to
something simple:  getting parents to demand real challenge while the kids are
in the classroom. 

Besides, I get more school time for my kids; for two years now and into the
forseeable future, $ permitting, they've gone to summer school.   Of course, 
that forces me to put my money where my mouth is, but, it's worth it.

Since I have a daughter at both MHS and ABRHS, my wife and I went to both 
Curriculum Nights.  The differences were interesting.  At MHS with 240 
students, there were about 60 parents (P/S = .25, approximately).  We all 
fit into the MHS library.  At ABRHS with 1100 students, there were over 1200 
parents; it was a zoo (P/S = 1.1, approx.).  Steve Donovan introduced his 
Asst. Principal and his 6-8 department heads.  Don Cranson introduced his 
half-time Dean of Students.  Which system do you expect to demand/accomplish
more?

Don't get me wrong.  The faculty and administration of the MPS do a very
good job with what they've got.  The problem is that they simply don't have
enough (money, students, and most of all, demanding parents). 

I have a question for those of you who think half-days are important.  When
was the last time you were in the Superintendent's office or the office of
the principal of the school(s) your children are in?   It's two months since 
I've been in Don Cranson's office and a week for the Sup't's.

:-)

John

Re:   <<< Note 370.15 by AIDEV::COMELLA "John Comella, DTN 296-5281" >>>
    
    >I have a question for those of you who think half-days are important.  When
>was the last time you were in the Superintendent's office or the office of
>the principal of the school(s) your children are in?   It's two months since 
>I've been in Don Cranson's office and a week for the Sup't's.
    
    I'm not sure what you mean by this comment, John.  Is there supposed to
    be a "not" in that first sentence?  Regardless, the numbers you've
    posted are not at all heartening concerning MHS.  I can say that this
    isn't the case at the Green Meadow.  The place is mobbed when any type 
    of activity is taking place.  Yes, I've been to the Superintendant's 
    office in the past 2 months and to the GMS principal's office in the 
    past month.
    
    The last time a group of citizens got together to air their
    complaints/compliments about the school system, their issues were tabled
    by certain members of the school committee.
    
    I appreciate the information that's been provided regarding the
    necessities of half days, but I still don't think it's too much to ask
    that kids attend school for 180 full days.
    
    					Steve

    I would like to ask a question, how does Maynard compare with other
    towns in the number of 1/2 days?
    
    I feel the key to a good education is what John wrote in .15. In my 
    opinion there are three factors that contribute to a kids education:   
    A good school system, a motivated student and parents who care about 
    their kids education.  A motivated student with caring parents will do
    well in any school system and a good school system might be able
    motivate an unmotivated student. The problem we have is everybody has a
    different idea of what is a good school system.
    
    A question we must ask is what type of education should a public school
    provide?  
    
    I have another thought that might help some of the school systems. 
    When I attended Worcester State College, all the colleges in Worcester
    belonged to the College Consortium.  This allowed any student enrolled
    in any Worcester College to take a class in another college.  If your
    college didn't have the class you wanted or not at a time when you
    could take it, you could take it in another school.  I think something
    like this could be adopted in public schools in this area.
    
    Paul
     

Re: Note 370.16 by KALI::MORGAN "3-5 in 1 run games..." >>>

Steve, I think that you are right that Green Meadow is a better school (when
measured relative to neighboring towns) compared with the middle or high 
school BECAUSE the GM parents get so involved.

Why is it that the older the kids get, the less interest their parents take
in their education?  That's backwards.  In K to 4th grade, the teachers are
accepted by the kids as surrogate parents, so the teachers can motivate kids
more easily than later on.  It's when they get to middle and high school
that the teachers need help (moral support, discipline, example) from the
parents. 

>>    The last time a group of citizens got together to air their
>>    complaints/compliments about the school system, their issues were tabled
>>    by certain members of the school committee.

I hope that you don't mean "tabled" as a synonym for "ignored".  I am
perfectly sure that the issues weren't ignored.  

What is critical for the people of Maynard (and the state and country) to
understand is that some of those problems are purely funding problems (the
faded Xerox copies, copies instead of workbooks, etc....).  The people of
Maynard can fix that easily; increase the funding for schools. 

Others are questions of attitude, morale, etc.  Those 1/2 days are morale
boosters for the faculty (which needs it desparately).  So in a world where
resources (in this case, calendar hours) are limited, I think the half-days
are a good tradeoff.  Read the teachers' contract sometime if you don't
think that calendars hours are a limited resource.  By the way, that is one
way in which I consider the faculty unprofessional (some of the terms that
they get put into their contracts). 

The attitude and morale problems are really tough!  Teachers stop trying to 
motivate kids because they wear out.  Some of them have been in the same 
classroom for 10 years!  The longest job I've had in DEC has been 3 years; 
then I go do something else.  If the parents don't back up the teachers in 
getting the kids to finish their homework, the teachers can't do anything.

Steve, float a proposal to add 9 full days to the school year in Maynard and
see what happens.  That would get you the 180 days you want.  Or suggest
that there be class on Saturday morning like in France. (Don't forget to
beef up your life insurance first).  

My solution is simpler; I send my kids to summer school. 


Re: 16 - Taking courses in different schools

Great idea, Paul.  Logistically really tough.  Figure out how to move the 
kids around without scrambling the rest of their schedule (and within 
budget).

Re: 16 - what are the numbers of half-days in other schools

I think someone said last night that some school in the area has a half-day 
every week.  But a minimum of 180 days and 900 hours is required by the 
state; and Maynard complies. 

:-)

John

RE: taking course in other schools

	Contiguous communities shouldn't have too much problem with this,
especially with juniors and seniors who can drive themselves. It has been
and is being done. As for students taking some responsibility in this area,
usually the courses that this happens with are AP courses that you might have
5-8 students for and can't justify a teacher's salary to carry. You usually
have the best and the brightest taking these type of courses. 

	Another opportunity to deal with this issue without the transportation
issues is to use technology. A large number of schools in this area have 
interactive video capability and satellite linkage. Some of us are using this
to bring college level courses to high school students.