Conference bookie::movies

John Lasseter, the director of the movie, was a regular presenter
of Pixar's stuff at SIGGRAPH conferences when I was attending through the '80s.
He is, in large part, much more attuned to the conventions of traditional
animation than one might expect of a computer animation geek.
It's not surprising to me that Toy Story should be characterized as a cartoon
that just happens to be computer generated.

Pixar is a spinoff from Lucasfilm, formed by a group of early computer 
animation pioneers.  Previous short film works from Pixar are a series
of computer animated stories including "Red's Dream," "Tin Toy," and
"Luxo Jr."  These are good movies in their own right, and demonstrate
the progress of the art to Toy Story.  A 30 minute video collection 
of about a half dozen of these works is available for $25 from Pixar 
at 800-888-9856.

- tom]

RE: .1

I intended to mention this in .0, but I forgot...

I first saw Pixar's work in a SIGGRAPH in 1983/84, where they presented
Luxo Jr.  I remember thinking at the time that all of the computer animation 
presented at SIGGRAPH that year was stunningly beautiful and represented
the state-of-the-art, and Luxo Jr certainly held its own there.  But it
went further, in that it had a story, characters, humor, etc, whereas most
(all?) of the other presentations were simply impressive images with nothing 
behind them.

That is what made me want to go see Toy Story in the first place: the fact
that it was made by Pixar.

-- Ken Moreau

    Fantastic movie.  Probably the funniest and fun-est that I've been to
    in years.  A nice blend of genres that live action movies could learn
    something from, and I agree with the crowd that says adults probably
    get more out of the movie than kids will.  The toys in this film were
    the sort of toys I would have (and had) as a kid as opposed to the
    whiz bang toys of today (some of which I have anyway).
    
    I'd see this again in a flash.  Comedy, action, even some poignancy. 
    Wunnerful stuff.
    
    
    **** out of ****
    
    
    kim
    
    

    Pixar apparently just went public and this afternoon the stock
    was up $16+ to $28/share.  Not bad...I guess timing really is 
    everything!!
    
    Sue

> Pixar apparently just went public and this afternoon the stock
> was up $16+ to $28/share.  Not bad...I guess timing really is everything!!

	You should get a new broker, your info is wrong! :-)
	The IPO price was $22/share (which average joes like
	you and me can *not* buy it at), opened for trading
	at $47/share (ie. what it would of cost you if you had
	placed a market buy order before it started trading),
	and closed the day at $39/share.

    Good thing I don't "do" stocks!!
    
    I got my info from flipping channels yesterday & stopped on one of
    those cable business shows that run the ticker along the bottom of
    the screen.  Pixar caught my eye because of the conversation in here.
    
    I guess I didn't see what I thought I saw...there on the screen!!
    
    Sue

    I loved it too, but I don't think it would have had nearly the effect
    of some of the scenes if it HAD been line-drawn.  I saw a clip of the
    movie at this year's San Diego ComiCon, and what sold me on the movie
    was the animated Bucket o' Soldiers.  They way they moved and looked
    could not have been done in standard drawings.
    
    On the other hand, I agree that they should have mixed live action so
    that real people played the real people.
    
    tom

    The problem with mixing living action and computer animation is
    computer animation often has what I call the "Too shiny" look to it. 
    Computer animation worked really real for Toy Story because toys are
    "too shiny" -- the smooth, polished look of plastic is great for the
    medium as it now stands.  I'm sure, in the near future, that "too
    shiny" look will be a problem solved.   
    
    I think real people would have looked TOO real matched next to the
    toys.  (as another example, the ballroom scene in "Beauty and the
    Beast" -- the animated one, while very pretty, was jarring to me
    because the computer-rendered ballroom looked too photorealistic
    compared to the traditionally animated characters dancing around in it.
    *So* photorealistic and "shiny" that to me, it was obviously a 
    computer-generated image.  It did not "go" with the rest of the film. 
    Of course, in this case, a snapshot of a real ballroom would not have
    "gone" with the film, either.)
    
    I did not mind the not quite right humans in the film (and the dog). 
    It was a nice juxaposition of real life, where the toys are the ones that
    don't look quite right and people do. :)
    
    My two cents,
    
    
    kim

RE: .8

>[discussion of the shiny surface problem]

That *is* a problem common to all computer generated animation that I have 
seen, which I attribute to the fact that each "surface" is computed separately,
and therefore the number of surfaces in the scene directly impacts the time
to compute the scene.  Shiny surfaces (no matter how warped, such as Woody's
face or Buzz's helmet) are a single surface which can be computed fairly 
cheaply, while rough surfaces (such as the dinosaur's skin or tree bark) are
*many* groups of single surfaces, each of which requires individual computing.
This increases the compute power and therefore time required to generate each
scene, raising the price of each scene dramatically.  And when you need 30
scenes per second times a 90 minute movie, this can run to big bucks.

>    toys.  (as another example, the ballroom scene in "Beauty and the
>    Beast" -- the animated one, while very pretty, was jarring to me
>    because the computer-rendered ballroom looked too photorealistic
>    compared to the traditionally animated characters dancing around in it.
>    *So* photorealistic and "shiny" that to me, it was obviously a 
>    computer-generated image.  It did not "go" with the rest of the film. 

Oh, permit me to disagree.  The shiny floor and columns in the ballroom, when
coupled with the multi-point source lighting of the candles and chandelier,
made that scene work **exceptionally** well for me.  Ballroom floors and 
marble columns are SUPPOSED to be shiny, even in real life, and I have played
that scene over and over just to watch and marvel at how well it works.  And
the fact that Disney used different technologies to build a single scene is
to me a tribute to their taste and open-mindedness, such that they are more
interested in the overall impact, rather than sticking to one technology or
another.  Kudos to them for one of the most beautiful single scenes ever done
in animation (of whatever type).  The only one that I can think of that
compares to it is the cradle scene in Lady and the Tramp, where the curtains
are swaying in the breeze, Mrs Darling's dress is moving as she is rocking 
the cradle, the cradle is moving back and forth, and the bow on the cradle 
is rocking back and forth slightly behind the cradle motion.  Marvelous!

IMHO, of course...

-- Ken Moreau

    Hi!,
    
        I took my kids to see the film at the weekend and thought it was
    excellent. Sometimes, especially on the external house views, I found
    it hard to believe it was computer generated.
    
        Did anyone notice on the toolbox that the bad kid (can't remember
    the name) put on the upturned milk crate to keep Woody trapped?
    
        It had the name BINFORD!

    Andy - good boy
    Spike - bad boy - doesn't take care of his toys.
    
    My two year old (nearly three) daughter did not appreciate what Spike did
    to his sister's dolly.  She still talks about it nearly two weeks
    later.  I too loved the toy soldier scenes.  Top notch!
    
    PChaplinsky

    Re: .1
    
    Did you also notice the book "Adventures with Andre and Wally B." -
    I think it's a reference to Wallace Shawn's (voice of Rex) movie
    "My Dinner with Andre."
    
    							Michael
    

    Saw this yesterday - great film! Even though any age can see it,
    regular action for the kids and lots on in-jokes and "over the head"
    references for the adults. Probably will catch more when I see it
    again.
    
    the audience in the theater was about 1/3 adult and 2/3 kids (8 and
    younger would be my guess). We were definately laughing at different
    times.
    
    Since I like both Tom Hanks and Tim Allen, the voice selection, for me
    was perfect. Especially with Tim Allen playing the super-duper space
    toy. Almost all the voices sounded familiar, but it wasn't  until the
    end credits we figured out why.
    
    In case you've missed the commercials, there's a web page for this
    movie: http://www.toystory.com   which gives general info, character
    info (who's the voice) and other interesting tidbits.
    
    General comments:
    
    1. the kid next door needs help. I'd move too if he was a neighbor.
    
    2. Bucket O' Soldiers was great!
    
    3. Favorite line "This is the perfect time to PANIC!"
    
    4. Now, when you close the door on your kids/your toys, aren't you
    going to assume they are coming to life?
    
    
    Everyone should see this and even I would be willing to pay full price
    (who never goes to anything but matinees!)
    
    janetb.

    
    I took my 4 1/2 year old daughter last week. It was her first ever
    movie at the movie theater. We both loved it!!! As Janet said, adults
    and kids were tending to laugh at different places. I had seen the
    "Making of Toy Story" on Disney a number of times, so Woody to me was
    "real". At the beginning of the movie when Andy is playing with Woody
    I kept feeling so bad for Woody. Makes me feel sorry for the abuse I
    put my toys through when I was young. Great flick!! A must see for
    anyone with young kids or those just young at heart.
    
    Patty

I saw this with my 11-year-old son on Saturday.  It was all right.  The
movie Heat was playing at the same time in the same theater in Framingham,
and I wish we had gone to that.  My son liked it, but he wasn't as excited
as I've seen him coming out of other movies, including Jumanji.

There were several reviews of that led me to believe that Toys was one of those
kids movies that would appeal to everyone.  Yea, maybe. I think they should have 
used real people in a real setting, and computerized the toys and their
activity. 

I doubt I'll even rent the video when it comes out.

-SB

    I don't have children and didn't feel the least bit ashamed to be at
    this movie with another adult.  I LOVED THIS MOVIE!!  One of the most
    visually engrossing films I have ever seen.  I clearly remember sitting
    wide-eyed trying to take in every texture in the movie.  You could hear
    a pin drop during most scenes - the audience, adults and children, had
    to be just as engrossed as I was.  Wonderful experience - we all
    clapped at the end!
    
    Velda

Well, I guess as long as I insist on calling a movie a movie instead
of a film, I'm CLEARLY off some kind of trend track and destined to call 'em
like I see 'em.  

An opinion is an opinion, and I gave mine.  To ME, Toys was okay.  That's
it.  I'm trying to figure out how I gave the impression that I was ashamed
to be seen in the theater.  The day I worry about what others think 
of the movie I pick, is the day I deem myself agoraphic and stay home.

-SB

    
    Steve,
    
    Ya might want to turn your sensitivity meter down just a bit. :)
    
    I don't think .16 was "aimed" at you, or even referring to your note.
    It was just another person's opinion of the movie.
    (maybe)
    

    
    As the writer of note 16, I want to reply to note 17 and say I didn't
    even read your opinion of the movie/film.  I WAS merely expressing my
    opinion of the movie.  The statement about being ashamed was not aimed
    at anyone.  I SIMPLY don't have children and I never let that stand in
    the way of me enjoying anything deemed for children/youth etc.  Sheesh
    - I think I'll stick to read only as I have been - this could be
    dangerous - :^)
    
    

Sorry, I started feeling like a reprobate because I submitted an opposing
opinion.  And even after re-reading it, .17 sounds like a direct reply.  But
that is my mis-imterpretation and I apologize for being too touchy.

-Sb

  What a great movie!!! Go see!!!

  Often times when someone pushes the technology you end up with a spectacle
of effects and no story. Not this time. The 1st major all computer generated
animation comes along with a great story that keeps your link connected and
session alive for the entire film.

  **** out of 5,
  George

    
    This opened in the UK last friday and I went to see it last night, I
    saw it with two other adults (one who's 23 and my girlfriend who's 27)
    and we all loved it!  superb storyline and the animation was excellent,
    I especially liked the bucket 0' soldiers and the way mr potato head
    kept losing parts of his face.  The animation was so good at times that
    it looked like a real shot.  I think the voices were very well chosen
    and really made the characters come to life.  The little aliens in the
    "grabber" machine were also pretty amusing ("the claw chooses us").
    There are very few films I would willingly see twice but this might
    just get a second viewing.
    
    5 out of 5

    
    
    
    did you notice the army soldiers c.o was the same SGT Major from
    Full Metal Jacket and Space: Above and Beyond?
    
    
    He's excellent in that role!
    
    Chris
    :)

    
    I thought I recognised that voice........
    
    
    

    
    Re: -1 & -2.
    
    	Eh All,
    
    		He was also a special guest voice on "The Simpsons" a while
    back. In case you're not a big fan of "TS" it was the episode where
    Side Show Bob (Voice of Kelsey Grahmar ie:Fraiser), attempts to get rid of 
    all T.V. from Springfield. This takes place at an AirForce Base inwhich he
    plays some kind of Master Srg. or somethin' like dat.
    
    
    	H.A.G.O.,
    
    		 J  

    There is apparently a good web page for Toy Story.
    
    Can someone post the address. Also the Disney web address would
    be handy also.
    
    Thanks
    
    Royston

re .-1

	Don't remember where the toy story page is but if you go to 

		http://www.disney.com
                       
you can get to it as well as pages for Muppet Treasure Island, James and 
the Giant Peach, and others.

Walker