Conference bookie::movies

    Re .0
    
    Interesting assessment - I used to love this film, but in recent
    years have found it harder to watch, largely because of the points
    you bring up.    
    
    Trivia note - in the movie "E.T.", the film that E.T. is watching
    while Elliot is freeing the frogs and kissing his fellow student is
    "The Quiet Man".

    RE: .1  by GODIVA::bence 
    
    >Trivia note - in the movie "E.T.", the film that E.T. is watching
    >while Elliot is freeing the frogs and kissing his fellow student is
    >"The Quiet Man".
    
    I thought it was "The Longest Day".
    

    They used the scene from the Quiet Man where John Wayne grabs O'hara
    (in a gale as I recall), Elliot mimics the scene in the classroom with
    one of the girls.  I think.
    
    Mikef

    RE: .3  by 42195::FIDDLERM 
    
    >They used the scene from the Quiet Man where John Wayne grabs O'hara
    >(in a gale as I recall), Elliot mimics the scene in the classroom with
    >one of the girls.  I think.
    
    I meant the part about freeing the frogs.
    

One of my favorite films. The points in the base note are well taken but keep
in mind that this film was never intended to be drama or anything approaching
reality, it's more of a gentle fantasy. This is Ford's never-never land of the
old country. Ireland as he would like it to be rather than what it was. Mabye
that wish fullfillment does include basically subserviate women but that wasn't
that far off the mark in reality. It always helps to keep in mind when viewing
any film or reading any book the social mores and customs of the time and
place. Do you enjoy _Casablanca_ less because of Ingrid Bergman's subservient
role? Yes I realize there were more physical things going on in TQM but it was
more along the lines of slapstick than abuse.


Randy

    If you read .0, you know that I was aware of the mores of
    the time(s) ['20s, when the story is set; '51 when the movie
    was made; various past decades when the expectations of the
    director and actors, etc. were set].  My comments were about
    _my_ reaction, and part of the interest for me is that I know
    I would have seen it differently had I watched it in '68
    [year picked to make me 15--much earlier and I wouldn't have
    be interested in the romatic parts..].  After all, I remember
    not minding the old Bond movies like "Goldfinger", where
    there was a fair bit of pushing women around.  I've changed
    and the times have changed--and that's history working on
    us made visible by our reactions to movies.  Isn't that worth
    a comment?
    
    I certainly don't ask that people in the past anticipate 
    current moral beliefs.  I try to understand the context of 
    the creator(s) when I read or look at some product of the 
    past.  But my reactions are real, too--and I think I share
    some of them with others, so it's worth mentioning them.
    
    Two final points: first, often I find a suffiently jarring 
    violation of current norms will take me "out" of the movie,
    much as a loud noise or an unexpected touch would.  This
    changes the experience and makes it less immediate and less
    emotionally engaging--less fun; second, there's a difference 
    between slapstick and abuse, and what I saw did not look 
    like slapstick at all.
    
    I agree that "gentle" is a good word for the overall tone of
    the movie.
    
    		-John Bishop

re .6

>                                                   I've changed
>    and the times have changed--and that's history working on
>    us made visible by our reactions to movies.  Isn't that worth
>    a comment?

Absolutly.

>   Two final points: first, often I find a suffiently jarring 
>   violation of current norms will take me "out" of the movie,
>   much as a loud noise or an unexpected touch would.

I know what you mean. I was watching _Bright Leaf_ the other night and
Gary Cooper casually addressed a black servant as "boy". It's a quite
common thing to do in films until the fifties but it's still jarring
and tends to call attention to the fact that your watching a film. Tends
to distract from your enjoyment and lessen your identification with the
characters.


Randy

    
    Interesting base note. 
    
    I have noticed that Wayne has treated several of his leading ladies in
    this way and seems to be a common theme in his films.  Donovans Reef -
    True Grit and McClintok! (sp?) also spring to mind.
    
    Perhaps he had a Taming of the Shrew obsession....?
    
    
    
    
    Tom

    I read - I think it was - Frank Capra's autobiography many years ago and 
    remember him describing how he almost worked on a John Wayne movie. At a
    conference with the scriptwriter James Lee Barrett _ a Wayne regular -
    Barrett imparted the following advice:
    
    "All you need for a good picture with the Duke is a bunch of jerks he
    can smack in the face every five minutes, a hoity-toity dame with big ****
    he lay over his knee and spank and a bad guy he can blow away at the
    end."
    
    I'm not positive about the last criterion, but I have never forgotten the
    first two.
    
    Nick