Conference bookie::movies

    I thought it was quite funny in places.  I liked it.  It's the first
    time I ever liked Tim Robbins in a movie.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    It got annoying.
    
    I guess that's not a knock on the pacing, cinematography, dialog, 
    etc., but a knock on the lopsided politics.
    
    "Bob Roberts" made it seem like one party in the USA was noble, 
    caring, and generous, while one was deceitful, cold, and immoral.
    
    Since I think both parties carry a heavy burden of corruption, this
    got to be too biased for me.  After seeing Tim Robbins performance
    at the Oscar's, I can see why.
    
    You know, I wouldn't mind seeing an actor/musician/entertainer come out
    with a conservative piece of work or stance every once in a while - just
    for balance.  I wonder (not really) why that doesn't happen much.  Don't 
    mean to get political, but hey, its the kind of issues the movie
    raises.
    
    - Sean

>    You know, I wouldn't mind seeing an actor/musician/entertainer come out
>    with a conservative piece of work or stance every once in a while - just
    
    You mean like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, John Wayne,
    Jack Webb, John Milius, ...?
    
    Ray

I think you can add Tom Selleck to the list.  The heavyweights in Hollywood
are far more liberal than the general public; I don't think we can ever
expect balance.  We do get "every once and awhile", but I don't think
that's enough to attain balance.

Ann

> The heavyweights in Hollywood are far more liberal than the general public;

	I disagree.  I believe the general public is much more liberal
	than the conservatives will let you know .....

  Almost all pictures that come out today strongly support conservative values.
Cops area almost always shown as good guys, the bad guys are always shown as
being psychotic and having no redeeming value which supports the conservative
notions of a clear distinction between good and evil. 

  Whenever an after-life is shown (such as in Ghosts or Heaven can Wait) it is
always based on the conservative Heaven/Hell model. When was the last time you
saw a departed spirit run into Athena or get reincarnated? 

  Relations with the "other woman" almost always fail in the movies despite the
fact that just about everyone in the baby boomer generation is living with
someone who they became involved with while married to someone else. 

  When prostitutes are shown in a positive light, such as in Trading Places or
... I forget, the one with Julia Roberts and Richard Gear ... they have always
turned their last trick and are shown leaving the business. In most other cases
they usually end up dead. 

  I agree that back in the late 60's and early 70's there was true diversity
and different points of view were shown on the big screen, but today's movies
almost always stay within the lines and promote conservative values.

  George

    re .6, I agree.  Seems to me there are more conservative views
    expressed in movies these days than liberal.
    
    Lorna
    

    In fact, a movie like "Bob Roberts" stands out simply because it
    breaks away from the typical ultra-conservative Hollywood mainstream.
    
    NAZZ

    Although Bob Billion's political heart was worn on the left sleeve
    (which I find refreshing nowadays), it flopped in the way that
    Hollywood attempts at electoral politics usually flop.  It was
    hopelessly, offensively, naive.  As a liberal, I have to support as
    many mildewy tile grouts as the conservatives do.  Liberal politicians
    are just as proud of their corruption and hypocrisy as any other public
    servant.
    
    The "Saturday Night Live" business was done well enough, but otherwise
    they lost too many opportunities.  In particular, Gore Vidal's
    holier-than-Frank-Fay New England Democrat (!) sunk the movie for me. 
    The first intellectual to attack the Kennedies surely could've handled
    something a little more realistic.
    
    Oh, I know, it was supposed to be propaganda, and propaganda is
    _supposed_ to be simplistic.  Yeah, that's why satire makes lousy
    propaganda.  Failed satirical propaganda doesn't achieve much.
    
    Altman's "Nashville" is still the best movie about American politics
    in the post-Preston-Sturges period.
    
    Ray

    
�    You mean like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, John Wayne,
�    Jack Webb, John Milius, ...?
    
    These guys represent conservative values?  Wow, do I get to pick the
    liberal representives, now?  :^)
    
    Some of that list portary characters that are the comic book versions of 
    conservative thinking.  I guess Arny has been seen in many a Republican 
    circle, so I'll give you that.  After thinking about it, I guess you all 
    do have a point about the industry.  Wasn't trying to be controversial.
    
    I was thinking of cases where I see entertainers as individuals (rather 
    than the industry as a whole) deem it necessary to become a mouthpiece.
    Most use their particular media to make a serious social comment that is 
    generally liberal - "Bob Roberts", "Roger and Me", "Do The Right Thing", 
    etc.
    
    Anyway, I must admit it was fun to see the homage to Dylan - I especially
    enjoyed the take-off on his cue-cards video.
    
    - Sean

    Remember that the prime movie audience is the late teen/early adult
    American.  Hence American movies tend to gravitate toward the eighth
    grade level or so.  Thus all the morality you'd expect from someone
    at that stage.  This includes the values discussed earlier as well as
    the not too subtle (yet unwarranted) messages about Evil Businessmen.
    I'm hard pressed to come up with movies that reflect the reality of
    running or working for a small, honest enterprise.
    
    On the other hand, I'm surprised at the way Hollywood portrays the
    various "spook" agencies.  Some films that come to mind are _Hunt for
    Red October_, _Patriot Games_, _Silence of the Lambs_ and even _Sneakers_.
    It seems as though Hollywood is convinced FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. are
    borderline infallible, which some might call the "Conservative view".
    My opinion of these agencies is somewhat lower; Waco is more their norm
    rather than the exception, imo.  And I'm a conservative.
    
      John
    
    "This land is your land,
     This land is my land,
     Sure looks like one of us
     Has a bad deed to this land."	-- Dave Barry

    If "Bob Roberts" isn't a "comic book version" of the left, I don't know
    what is.  (: >,)
    
    As for the rest of your list:
    
    	- "Roger and Me" wasn't made by an "entertainer".
    
    	- "Do the Right Thing" was not, as far as I can see, either liberal
    _or_ conservative.  (My guess is that the Celtics fan with the bike was
    meant to be a liberal.)  
    
    Ray

    RE: .9  by ESGWST::RDAVIS 
    
    >Altman's "Nashville" is still the best movie about American politics
    >in the post-Preston-Sturges period.
    
    Better than "All the President's Men"?  I've never seen "Nashville". 
    What would you say makes it the best movie about American politics?
    

    Rep .11 I agree with you in everything but the infallibility of the 
    FBI+++. In most movies except the ones note they are shown as American 
    Secret police with little or no morals and few successes especially in
    comedies like One Red Shoe and Hudson Hawk and action shows like
    Magnum Force and Die Hard. Even FBI pictures like Point Break  and
    Silence of the Lambs the majority of the FBI is shown to be incompetent
    and the case is solved by luck or one lone agent. 
                        Jeff Peters 

>    Better than "All the President's Men"?  I've never seen "Nashville". 
>    What would you say makes it the best movie about American politics?
    
    "Nashville" predicted the "outsider" syndrome which has dominated
    American politics since Nixon's reign; more generally, the movie is
    concerned with the (sometimes grisly) ways entertainment and politics
    work together to influence "real life" in an age when media
    manipulation is the source of most power.  Movies like "The Candidate"
    looked more realistic at the time, but "Nashville" covers much more
    ground, and with the force of a prophecy.  Even its tag-team structure,
    following character A until the camera trips across character B, is
    suggestive of a democracy of individuals who deceive themselves both as
    to their own uniqueness and as to the universal validity of their
    opinions. 
    
    "All the President's Men" is not nearly cynical enough, since it treats
    journalists as good guys.  Nice little suspense movie, though.
    
    Ray

   Above all, this movie was repetitive and boring after a while. Cynical
   humor and satire works only the first time around. Additional satire
   has to explore other absurdities, unexpected the better.

   You've got to watch only the first half-hour of this movie to get the
   idea. The rest repeats itself every half-hour with a Oliver Stonesque
   monolog from the incumbent senator for relief (not much of one though).

   After the "Player", I was expecting a lot from Tim Robbins. If you had seen
   this movie first,  you wouldn't have seen the "Player".

   Nari

>   You've got to watch only the first half-hour of this movie to get the
>   idea. The rest repeats itself every half-hour with a Oliver Stonesque
>   monolog from the incumbent senator for relief (not much of one though).


I might agree that most of the political satire was palyed out pretty early,
but I really believe that "the idea" slowly emerged and was briefly stated in 
the final interview with the reporter who kept dogging Roberts.  Look at the 
cameo players.  I don't think they were there for laughs or for simplistic
political satire.  In fact, this is not really a political satire.  It is
a vehicle for sending a message to the American public.

Bob

  They could have had a wealth of material on which to explore other
  absurdities of political life, but they seems to have chosen not to;
  cynical manipulation of religious beliefs, pork barrel politics, 
  big industry or interest group pressures, sexual misadventures,
  real or perceived charges of harassment, tangling with Sam Donaldson-like
  media creatures,......

  Nari

>     -< They could have explored a lot of other political strangeness... >-


>  They could have had a wealth of material on which to explore other
>  absurdities of political life, ...


Yep, and that would have made a richer political satire but, again, I don't 
think rich political satire was the intent.  The last few minutes of the movie
reveal the real intent and message in the words of the radical(?) journalist
and the incumbent senator.

Bob