Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Welcome Rob and Tina,
    
    I offer the tidbits below. When the other noters get time, you can
    expect much more detail.
    
    For feeding you should be offering him lots of fresh vegetables and
    fruit and keep the seeds to a minimum. Also with your busy schedules
    you might want to consider a pelleted diet.
    
    As far as spending time with him, you should spend no more time with
    him that you will be able to maintain long term, or you may be in for
    serious behaviour problems(feather picking, screaming....)
    
    Inappropriate spaced bars on the cage can be dangerous.
    
    Doug

    Tina and Rob...
    
               I have 3 Conures and all I can say is that I have to agree
    with the amount of time you spend with him should not exceed the amount
    of time you will have on a regular basis...I spoiled my birds rotten 
    by spending every bit of time I had with them because I love to spend
    time with them but my schedule has changed alot over the past year and
    they demand more time than I have and so they have resorted to
    screaming (which conures are known for anyways) but I find it hard to 
    just sit down and relax without having one of them on my shoulder or
    lap...I am retraining them to be without me more but it is 5x harder to
    do because they were already used to having me when ever they wanted..
    so if nothing else even though it sure is easy to hold them all the
    time and play with them just keep this in mind.....
    
                      good luck.......mary

    
    Well, I can't offer any tips but I have a question of my own.  
    
    Our Timneh makes a cliking sound usually associated with his eyes
    dialating and puffing up his feathers.  I had come to associate this
    with aggression.  Last night however as I was feeding him, he started
    this routine and kept offering his head for a scratch.  This is a major
    breakthrough and I was able to touch his head three times. So now I
    wonder what this posturing is really all about.   This bird is an
    import that never really had much handling in the last eight years.  He
    seems to be adjusting quite well to our hectic household.
    
    MaryAnne 

    
    MaryAnne,
    
    I think this IS a solicitation noise.  (Aggression in Timnehs is more
    typically associated with growling and screaming! :-)  My Timneh often
    made that noise when having her head scratched, and I noticed from very
    early on that making that little tttch-tttch-tttch sound seemd to have
    a calming effect on her.  YMMV.
    
    
    					/Rita
    

    
    Oh, and, BTW, I always thought I *taught* that noise to my grey :-)
    Learn something new every day, I guess!  And I wish you luck and
    congrats on your older, wild-caught grey.  Although extremely difficult
    to tame and befriend, once you can FINALLY accomplish this, wild-caught
    Timnehs (IMNSHO!) are probably the BEST pet birds in the world.  They
    seem, in my experience, to be more *generally* trusting and less
    inclined to be one-person birds, and with fewer neurotic tendencies
    than handfeds.  While I strongly prefer domestically bred birds (on
    ethical grounds) I might be very much inclined to look for a parent
    raised Timneh as opposed to a handfed if I were to get a grey again. 
    Much more work, but VERY rewarding!
    
    
    						/Rita
    

    
    Rita, 
    
    Thanks for that info!  This bird is a real character!  and a challenge.
    But there's no rush so I'm letting the bird set his own pace.
    
    Here's another question that could pertain to any talking bird. 
    Jupiter's vocabulary is pretty limited to "hello" "how are you"  which
    this bird could say 8 years ago when I first got him (I sold him and he
    recently came back, I only had him a short time originally)  I have
    a strong feeling that the last owners talked alot around him but never
    directly tried to teach him words in context.  His "noise" vocabulary
    is astounding and I do notice him talking to his toy in an "I'm
    practicing" voice.  I try not to reward him for his repititious
    phrases, but it seems to be the only way he knows of asking for
    attention.  What, do you feel, is the potential for increasing his
    vocab.  I've heard of birds that get stuck on a phrase and never learn
    anything else.  I'd rather have just noises than that.  I've only had
    this bird for a few months and he does my dog barking outside and the 
    budgie to a "T".
    
    As an aside, I too prefer parent raised birds after having had both I
    doubt, except for a budgie, that I would seek out another hand fed.
    but that's another note! ;')
    
    MaryAnne

    
    does anyone know what appropriate bar spacing would be for a Congo
    grey?

    
    RE: .6
    
    � But there's no rush so I'm letting the bird set his own pace.
    
    Oh, MaryAnne!  That made me laugh!  You have a Timneh, what in the
    world ever gave you the idea that you have ANY other choice ??? :-)
    
    �What, do you feel, is the potential for increasing his vocab.  
    
    Well, birds - even greys - have different talking abilities, and some
    just DON'T.  That he says *something* is a good sign.  My grey had
    favorite phrases, too.  Although she knew more than 50 words and
    phrases, most of the time she just wanted to say "Ooooo, sweeeetheart!"
    Talking to his toy is also a godd sign, he probably IS practicng.
    
    One thing you might do is to work with food or other rewards, and with
    a partner.  For example, if he likes sunflower seeds (don't all
    greys?), don't feed him ANY as part of his normal diet, but only as
    training treats.  Then, use a partner.  Stand where the bird has a
    clear view of you and your partner.  Hold up a sunflower seed.  Ask
    your partner, "Want one?"  Have your partner say something like, "Gimme
    a seed!"  Give the seed to your partner, who can then consume it.  Turn
    to your bird, hold up a seed, and ask, "Want one?"  Of course, your
    bird won't repeat the phrase, so do it again with your partner.  Try
    this for about five minutes, and then give your bird something else - a
    scratch on the head, an apple slice, etc, just for paying attention. 
    DON'T give your bird sunflower seeds until he says it (it's not that
    cruel, he'll live without them!).  
    
    I'm betting that it won't be too long before you're woken up at dawn to
    hear GIMME SEED! GIMME SEED! at about 50 decibals :-)  As soon as
    you've taught ONE thing this way, it should get easier.  I don't have
    my Bird Talk index here at work, but go back through the old issues and
    seek out the articles on the training of Alex.  This technique (well, a
    similar one, anyways) is described there.
    
    Also, be sure to TELL your bird what you're doing and talk to him ALOT.
    When you change his water, say, "have some WATER".  When you put
    pelleted food in his dish, say, "Have some crunchies".  When you add
    fruit, "Have an apple."  When you cover him at night, say "BedTime!" 
    When you leave the house, "BYEBYE, be GOOD!"
    
    Oh yeah, and if you REALLY want him to learn a new word, curse in front
    of him emphatically, JUST ONCE.  He will learn the curse word
    immediately.  You will not be aware that he has learned it, however,
    until your mother {the head of the PTA, your minister, etc.) comes
    over.  Trust me, I know :-)
    
    �As an aside, I too prefer parent raised birds after having had both I
    �doubt, except for a budgie, that I would seek out another hand fed.
    �but that's another note! ;')
    
    Ok, yup it is, so I'll go ask you why somewhere else!
    
    
    					/Rita
    
    

    
    re: .7
    
    I don't know off the top of my head, but look for a cage with "amazon"
    spacing.  A cage designed for amazon parrots should do fine for any
    grey.  Be sure that there are plenty of horizontal bars as well as
    vertical ones - greys like to climb and a mostly-vertical barred cage
    tends to frustrate them!
    
    
    					/Rita
    

    
    re: .8
    
    Thanks Rita!  I'm pretty much doing what you suggested as far as
    talking to him and associating what I'm doing with certain words.  I
    think as he feels more secure and comfortable in the house hold his
    vocab. will improve.  Already I've heard alot of the things I say to
    the dogs in his daily mumblings.  I guess I was just looking for
    re-assurance that he wouldn't be a broken record  ;')
    
    MaryAnne

    Okay, I can't resist putting in my 2 cents!
    
    re: .7 - bar spacing - I agree with Rita ( no surprise, since she was
    one of my first 'teachers' about bird stuff) -- the Prevue Hendrix 125
    or updated 122 is something many stores have on hand, so you could look
    at the bar spacing for reference (I don't particularly think they are
    the best choice for a cage, though)
    
    re: .8 and before from MaryAnne - our handfed grey is a year and a half
    old and has successfully mimicked words and sounds since he was about
    five months old.  He decides what to pick up (yep, sure does like those
    swear words I promise I only said just that once....).  He also amazed
    me last week when his next door neighbor, my umbrella cockatoo got on
    top of the grey's cage (domestic handfed, twenty-two months old--they 
    grew up together).  They grey said in my voice "UP, UP, UP...." -- I
    leaned over so the 'too could get on my shoulder...then the grey said
    "GOOD GIRL" just like I do! He gave the 'too an order and she obeyed!!
    He is always saying "Hi, Boo...Hello Boo-Bear (some of her names), but
    I thought his putting together the way to get her off his cage was
    another example of the intelligence of this species. So MaryAnne, be
    careful what you teach your Timneh to say!  He could end up ordering
    the dogs out of the house!! ;')  /Linda

    
    Just thought I'd update on Jupiter's vocabulary.  It took awhile for
    me to begin to really hear what he was saying in his mumbling sessions
    but I began to pick out alot of the phrases I use for the dogs.  I was
    always envious when I'd read stories in Bird Talk about the talking
    ability of greys and how they can reason.  Well more recently I've
    heard Jupiter creating his own sentences.  His usual reply to himself
    for a "how are you" is "all right".  The other day he replied with
    "good"  A word he hears often from me.  This morning I was upstairs
    getting dressed and I heard "whacha doin apple"  which brought a big
    smile to my face.  I now have first hand experience of what I'd only
    read about.  It is truly amazing!
    
    MaryAnne