Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    Linda,
    
    Don't get the classification in ordes, groups, species and subspecies
    mixed up.
    A hybrid is any offspring of individuals not belonging to the same
    subspecies.
    Individuals not belonging to the same species will not produce fertile
    offspring (this being one of the criteria for "species").
    
    X-breeding between species under natural conditions is prevented by
    behavioral patterns.
    
    In my opinion hybrids should be frowned upon as it appearantly already 
    too difficult to preserve the species.
    
    Peter 

So....Peter...here's the question being debated locally:

	Is a cross-breeding between a lesser sulphur crested 
	cockatoo (one of the subspecies with yellow in the
	crest) and a citron cockatoo (a subspecies of the lesser,
	but has orange instead of yellow in the crest) considered
	hybridization?  "Knowledgeable experts" here are in
	disagreement.  This would be like crossing an cockatua
	eleaonora with a galerita galerita in the so-called
	'greater' sulpher crested species.

						Linda

    Any of the people in doubt are no expert!
    There is a very clear definition of hybrids. Stands to reason too.
    Repeat: offspring from parents not belonging to the SAME SUBSPECIES is
    a hybrid. 
    This goes even further than the C.s.s. x C.s.c., it will
    even apply to regional variations that have been given special
    recognition within subspecies which therefor are seperate subspecies
    themselves! 
    This hybridisation theme is not at all a point open to discussion among
    scientists. Specific cl�ssifications are often under investigation, but
    that is something completely different.
    
    Anybody in doubt about the highly unwelcome and resource spilling 
    C.s.s. x C.s.c. crossing is just not knowledgeble and certainly no expert on
    taxodermy or conservation.                                 
    This sort of stupid behavior has caused an S.O.S. status for the Gold 
    pheasant and the Lady Amherst pheasant p.e.
    Most times it is very much better NOT to breed than to hybridisize
    between subspecies. This is the most difficult, almost impossible, to 
    correct way to spoil natures' evolution.
    
    Peter

Hi Peter,

I will relay your answer to those concerned.  This question has also
come up with regard to Eastern Rosellas and the cecelia subspecies,
also called here the Golden-Mantled Rosella.  The names Eastern and
Golden-Mantled names are often used interchangeably, which seems very
incorrect to me.  But then I am considered overly fussy about such
things ;')

Linda

    Well Linda,
    
    If there is a subspecies concerned it does not matter evry much how one
    calls it, as long as it is recognised as being distict from other
    subspecies and bred discriminately. There is no risc in being too
    fussy, there is a big risc in mixing it up. So keep being as fussy as
    you like, you'r very correct!
     
    To avoid confusion about names, which is unavoideble when using local
    language, I nearly always use the scientific nomenclature. One of my 
    teals p.e. has about half a dozen Dutch names and over twenty(!) English.
                                                            
    Peter

Hi Peter,

I appreciate the encouragement.  I'll keep being fussy!!

Linda

    
    Thanks for the explanations, Peter.  I think  it is tricky for many
    people to understand why it is ok (and not a hybrid) to breed a lutino
    cockatiel to a grey 'tiel, or a blue Indian ringneck to a lutino Indian
    ringneck, but not ok (ie; is a hybrid) to breed a green Indian ringneck
    to a a green African ringneck, or an Elenora to a Citron Cockatoo, or a
    Vosmari to a Soloman Island Eclectus.  Understanding the difference
    between colour mutation difference (like the first set of birds) and
    subspecies (taxinomical) differences (as in the second set) is not
    necessarily obvious!
    
    					/Rita
    

    
    
    Well I'm confused now.  I have a Harlequin macaw, a cross between a
    Green Wing and a Blue and Gold and I can tell you that a hybrid does
    not mature mentally as fast as a pure bred.  But I had never given any
    thought to the reproduction aspect of it.  Do you mean to tell me that
    a hybrid does not reproduce?  If not that's fine with me, I just never
    knew.  Anyway my "Harley" is a beautiful bird.  He has the most
    spectacular coloring from both his parents and is quite large.  He has
    the gentle nature of the Blue and Gold and the playful but wilfull
    antics of a Green Wing.
    
    
    
     

   This topic sure has been quiet for a long time...

   We have been told that crossing a male Mollucan Cockatoo with a female
Umbrella Cockatoo produces a spectacular offspring (white body with the
rich pink crest), but crossing a female Mollucan with a male Umbrella produces
an ugly, muddy colored bird. 

   We know of a lady who bartered some handfeeding for what she was told was
an Umbrella baby.  As the chick has started to get its feathers, it appears
as if someone with sooty hands wiped the birds feathers (i.e. the feather
colors are splotched with dark grey instead of pure white as is normal.) We're
wondering at this point if perhaps that chick is one of the "ugly" (I know
they are all so cute...) hybrids...

   Can anyone confirm that crossing a female Mollucan Cockatoo with a male
Umbrella cockatoo produces a "muddy" colored, unattractive baby?

Thanks,

Al