Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    IF you would like to know who this breeder is, you can send me mail.

    I doubt very much that you need a license to breed birds and anyone
    can be in "business".  Since birds are becoming more popular as
    pets it is wise for anyone who is thinking about buying or selling
    a bird to have some sort of agreement drawn up.  Make sure that
    everything is put in writing (within reason of course) and that
    way at least you have something to fall back on.  Dog and cat breeders
    have had contracts for years for exactly some of the same reasons
    .1 is having to deal with now.  BEFORE you buy _anything_ make sure
    you do some research.  Ask for references, ask who they use as a
    vet, and ask for some sort of guarentee.  Birds are a risky business
    in some ways.  If a new owner is a novice then, the breeder may
    only give a temporary guarentee because birds can be so delicate
    that one draft can cause illness and even death.  A breeder can't
    really be held responsible for that type of problem.  Before bringing
    a new bird home have an appointment with the avian vet you will
    be using. Leave the bird with the breeder until your appointment
    and then if there is a problem it is evident from the start and
    you and the breeder can work things out from there.  As in any type
    of operation there are good and bad and I guess we just have to
    all be careful out there.  Consider filing a complaint with the
    better business bureau if this person is a legit business.  I know
    this probably doesn't help .1 very much but it's food for thought
    and maybe it will help the next person.  There really are some good
    breeders out there.
    
    MaryAnne

                      -<another breeder>
    
    I have a friend who bought a bird from another local breeder,
    and has spent a lot of money on this bird with no support from
    the breeder she purchased it from. He gave her a 7 day guarantee
    on the bird and 2 days before it expired she had seen her vet.
    and notified the breeder that the bird had a life threating disease.
    When she talked with him he got rather nasty, says he did her a
    favor selling the bird so cheap (which it was not), and that he
    would not take the bird back as it would put all his other birds
    in danger. She loves the bird and said nothing about returning
    the bird, but would have liked to have gotten more info about
    the bird and maybe get some money back to take care of some of
    the vet. bills. They still don't know if this bird is going to
    die or what. She even brought him to another vet for a second
    opinion. Well, i didn't buy my bird from him, and will never go
    or send anyone there. My bird is very health and it came from
    Boston Pet....
    
    lisa
    

    But where did Boston Pet get your bird?  I'm not trying to start
    an argument here but keep in mind that many pet stores get their
    birds from breeders to begin with.  I don't doubt that there are
    alot of problems associated with buying a pet bird in fact I get
    a call now and again detailing the same problems as what's going
    on here.  The last call I got was from a woman who purchased a baby
    Blue Front from someone who was highly reccommended to her.  The
    bird ended up sick as did her children.  Now faced with medical
    and vet bills she called for help.  I suggested what I could but
    I haven't heard back from her and often wonder what happened to
    the bird and her children!!  Even the two parakeets I own, that
    came from different breeders had problems.  My $8.00 bargain cost
    $20.00 at the vets!  My Timneh that came from a "reputable" pet
    shop cost more than I care to remember at the vets.  The store owner
    basically said 'too bad' when I mentioned it to her.  Maybe we just
    have to be more selective and demanding when it comes to buying
    a bird.  Ask for a recent health certificate (within 5 - 10 days)
    when buying a bird.  And get in writing what the seller will do
    for you if there are problems!!  Beware of people who will not agree
    to any terms.  Take your business elsewhere.  If enough people turn
    away from this type of dealer they will (hopefully) either change
    or go out of business.  There have to be some honest breeders out
    there SOMEWHERE!!  I'm not saying that contract are the ultimate
    answer but we have to start somewhere. 
    
    MaryAnne

    
    Well at least boston pet backed up there bird..The breeder backed
    up his bird for 7 days, but did not honor it. Thats the point I
    was trying to make...Then what is someone to do???
    
    lp
    

    re   basenote
    
    Is it customary to pay for a bird before the bird is weaned, and
    before you pick up the bird to bring it home?  
    
    If so, you must get some type of contract/receipt/guarantee from
    the breeder.  I'd take my receipt and go to small claims court.
    
    If you didn't get any receipt/contract/guarantee for your money,
    I think you are plain foolish to hand over that much money.  Oral
    contracts are enforceable in a court of law, but it always comes
    down to your word against theirs.
    
    My .02
    
    	-Nancy
    
    

    Yes, I have got all the paperwork. Reciepts, her signature on the
    contract, I have it all. It should be cut and dry. I just want my
    money up front, not in payments. I don't think the breeder know
    that her rep is at stake.

    Re .1
    
    Breeders must be licensed with the Fish and Game Commission.  I don't
    know if they would be interested in poor business practices but they
    may be interested in a breeder selling sick birds.
    
    
    
    
    

    
    
    First, about licenses and permits...BTW at the end is about reporting
    a breeder selling sick birds.....
    
    I believe only breeders of endangered species or protected wildlife
    need to be registered, at least in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. For
    instance, Tourquisine and Scarlet-Chested Parrakeets, both Australian
    grass 'keets, have to have a permit before they can be imported to
    Massachusetts from a breeder in Minnesota (see breeders listed in the 
    back of Bird Talk and American Cage Bird Magazine, if you are
    interested).   In contrast, the Bourke's Parrakeet, 'cousins' to the
    other two listed above and also of the neophema species of grass keets,
    does not need a license and is bred and sold by several people in the
    Mass. and NH area without any requirements for a permit.   Consider
    calling your local Fisheries and Wildlife unit and State  Department of
    Agriculture, Animal Industries or State Veterinarian's Office, to find
    out if the species you are about to ship in or otherwise import
    requires a permit or license to keep/breed. And something tht might not
    be obvious is that crossing the state line  in your car with the bird
    being transported this way *is* considered importing from one state to
    the other in some states, and is covered by the same laws and
    requirements for permits/licenses as shipping something in from Florida
    or California, for instance, so beware.  
    
    Breeders who sell the chicks of their own breeder birds do not need to
    be licensed by the Department of Agriculture in Mass. or NH, but if the
    breeder is also reselling the chicks supplied to him or her by another
    breeder or importer or private party placing the bird with the breeder
    on consignment for resale, technically the reseller needs a pet store 
    license (also called  a license to sell/resell live animals: covers
    dogs, cats, and birds).   A private breeder also dealing in 'retail'
    sales of others people's birds is subject to the same licensing fees,
    annual spot inspections, record-keeping requirements, and other legal
    requirements as any chain or independent pet store with a storefront
    (home operations doing a 'retail' type of operation with birds other
    than their own may want to double-check with their state and local
    officials to make sure they are in compliance...those buying from them
    can ask to see their license, which is supposed to be prominantly
    displayed anyway, at least in Mass. or NH, when buying a bird not
    produced by that breeders parent birds.  This is meant for those
    offering birds for sale on a regular basis in this way, not typically
    for the one-time-only situation.)  Fostering and giving away for
    free, and boarding, do not seem to be covered in the same way as
    reselling, again at least in Mass. and NH.  Charging an adoption fee
    complicates this.  
    
    Again, when in doubt, check with your local licensing agencies.  
    
    Others out there know anything about licensing and permits? I learned
    this through phone calls and reading everything I could find, but would
    like to make sure the above is accurate.  Also, it would be interesting
    to hear from noters in other states about regulations there.  The AFA
    is attempting to monitor state laws that are in the making  regarding
    the licensing of bird breeders and importation of birds, so this seems
    to be hot topic once again.
    
    BTW: *Anyone* keeping animals, including birds, in an unhealthy or
    inhumane condition can be reported by you to local animal humane
    associations, regardless of whether the animal owner/keeper is a
    private party or licensed pet store, with one pet animal or many
    breeders....dog, cat, bird, gerbil, snake, you name it. See keyword
    HUMANE_SOCIETIES for related notes.
    
    Linda