Conference 7.286::pet_birds

    NOTE TO MODERATOR:  WIMMER & LANDINGHAM think the same... you might
    want to consolidate these notes into one...
    
    Anyhow, the bird seed that I give my cockatiels is by a company
    called Kay-tee.  I buy both the Honey Sticks and the Seed.  We found
    it in both.
    
    My best guess is you'll find it in most all of the other commercial
    [Hartz, etc.] bird food.  Larry & Ladybird ~ the cockatiels, have
    been getting that kind of food for several months now.  I haven't
    seen any negative affects [yet?].  
    
    But the mere nature of the conversations going on in the CANINE
    notesfile made me enter my reply there.  I also entered 185 at the
    same time.  The alleged affects that the chemical ethoxyquin can
    have on the animals is horrendous.  Now, if we can either prove
    or disprove those allegations... we'll all rest alot easier, and
    so will our beloved pets.
    
    There's power in numbers, but we must be careful not to over-react,
    too.  It's obvious by some of the notes in CANINE that the producers
    of these pet foods are getting wise [and irritated] by all the
    inquiries that are coming out of the New England area.  I'm not
    sure what is the best way to deal with all this...   But, let's
    get some answers, quick!
    
    Regards,
    Marcia

    There is also a discussion going on in FELINE about this.  From
    what I gather, the issue came up because a dog breeder had some
    bad luck in raising some pups and also had problems with her breeder
    dogs health.  This breeder blamed her problems on the food, pointing
    specifically to ethoxyquin.  Now, I talked to the IAMS (cat food)
    company, about the ethoxyquin, and they told me that all their calls
    are coming from the New England area.  IAMS told me that they are
    looking into the inquiries, but they have no hard evidence either
    way.
    
    I really feel stuck in the middle - do I continue to feed this to
    my cats and birds until we find out for sure whether or not this
    chemical is dangerous?  Or, do I change food immediately just to
    be safe - even though my pets do not like changes in their diet
    and will probably hunger strike for a couple days?  Has anyone found
    a bird seed that deosn't contain this chemical?
    
    	-Nancy

    Marcia,
    
    You said it was in Kaytee, is that the fortified mix that includes
    little pellets ?  If so is this "preservative" in the pellets or
    is it sprayed on the seeds. 
    
    I thought preservatives were used to keep things from spoiling,
    if this is the case there hardly seems a need to use it on seeds.
    If my assumptions are true shouldn't seed mix without pellets be safe ?
                                                               
    Doug

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Note 185.0               Preservative/Ethoxyquin in Food              No replies
CISM::LANDINGHAM "A*L*M*O*S*T S-U-M-M-E-R!"          21 lines  26-MAY-1989 12:56
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                                 ETHOXYQUIN
    ...is a chemical used as a preservative in many, many pet foods.
    I've recently discovered this because I am a new dog owner who notes
    in CANINE.  There is a special note in there regarding the dangers
    of that particular preservative in pet food.  It's an issue that
    is still in debate.
    
    It was just by coincidence, [my hubby noticed] that we saw that
    same ingredient in the treats I give my cockatiels, and in the food
    that I feed them daily.  
    
    I am very interested: have any of you pet/bird owners who use commercial
    bird food heard any conversation on this subject?  Can the ethoxyquin
    be harmful to our birds, too?
    
    For those of you who are interested, there is some very intelligent
    and enlightening discussion going on in CANINE.  
    
    For my part, I'd like to talk about what, if any, harm this Dow
    Chemical product can cause to our birds.  [You'd be shocked at what
    they're saying it can do to our dogs/cats!]
    

    My Scarlett seed mix bag doesn't list it as an ingredient.  The
    Kaytee treats do.  Because it isn't on the bag doesn't necessarily
    mean anything though.  The pet food manufacturers don't have to
    list a new ingredient until they run out of previously printed bags.
     In the case of dog food, it was in some of the food for almost
    a year before it shows up on the bag.  The only way to know for
    sure is to call the manufacturer.
    
    This all may be a false alarm.....but to be safe, I talked to my
    vet, then switched my dogs to an all natural food.  My concern with
    the birds is their sensitivity to toxic substances.
    
    The chemical is used primarily as a fat preservative.  This may
    mean it is only in the "treat" kind of products which contain fat.
    

    Response to .3 :
    
    Doug,  I'm reasonably sure it IS the fortified mix.  I'd have to
    check tonight.  I don't know where the "preservative" is sprayed...
    without doing some investigation, I can't intelligently answer your
    question.
    
    If ya'll look at the note where I was originally talking about this
    chemical, I cited "Dow" Chemical Co. as the manufacturer.  CORRECTION:
    the manufacturer is NOT Dow, but rather, MONSANTO.  Please excuse
    the error.
    
    I will check tonight to be certain what kind of KayTee product I'm
    giving my kids.  
    
    After doing much reading in CANINE, though, I am getting ready to
    go to a company called Pet Sense in Worcester which sells dog food
    WITHOUT ethoxyquin.  Perhaps they carry bird food WITHOUT it, too.
    
    Hope to get there before this weekend.  Will keep you informed.
    
    Regards,
    Marcia

Moved by moderator
    
                  <<< UPNRTH::USERA:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PET_BIRDS.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< These canaries swallow cats! >-
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Note 185.0                  where else is ethoxyquin?                 No replies
CST5::KERNICH                                        10 lines  30-MAY-1989 09:59
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    Hi!
    
    I am getting concerned about ethoxyquin also. Could fellow noters
    tell me which bird food has it in it? I buy my parakeet seed in
    bulk (in clear plastic bags) at a pet shop. How do I know if it
    is in what I am buying?  
     
    Thanks,
    carol
    

    
    	There will be an IAMBS (makers of Eukanuba dogfood, users of
    Ethoxyquin) representative at Pet Source in Stow, MA on Saturday
    6/10 between 11 am and 3 pm.  They should be able to answer questions
    on the use of this preservative.  Pet Source is also an excellant
    source of supplies and they are the most helpful pet store around.
     They are always willing to order anything for you or let you browse
    through there catalogs.  They also are very informed about the prices
    of other stores and consistently beat all other prices (except Eriksons
    in Acton...how could a small retail store compete with someone who
    has an onsite warehouse practically).

    Where is the Pet Source located ?  All the times through Stow and
    I never saw it.
    
    Doug

    
    	Pet Source is in the Stow shopping center on RT 117, right next
    to Country Fair Star supermarket.  As you are going to OGO from
    the GMA then it is on your right, roughly across from Ekinnen Buick.
     It is before you get to the traffic light with a mobile station
    at the corner and a church on your left.  There is a Papa Gino's
    in the plaza and a Radio Shack, as points of reference.  Pet Source
    is all the way on the left end of the plaza (actually it is second
    from the left as a new store just opened).  Speak to Iva or John
    for good information about different foods. Very nice people.
    

    I switched my dogs to natural food because of ethoxyquin...I had
    whelping problems..puppies stillborn with enlarged livers due to some
    kind of toxic problem..A veterinarian who i s Dachshund breeder has  a
    lawsuitpending against Eukanuba/IAMS due to this and I have read reports on
    the effects of research on rats...None of this looks good.  Would you
    eat anything containing a substance originally created as as
    insecticide/herbicide?