Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    Pretty good use of high tech also.  The automated system asks for your
    10 digit phone number, searches a database with very good performance,
    and asks you to verify the house number of your address!

      I thought that the technology was outstanding also...but when I
    think about it, it's also a bit scary (ala 1984).  If you do not have a
    listed number, then you are asked to record your address.
    
      Just to clarify the 800 number only gets you a copy of a prospectus. 
    To register you have to buy the beer.  Really.  I was told that there
    will be a coupon or something on the six pack cardboard.  I went
    looking for this last week, but was too early.  Haven't had a chance
    this week.
    
      The maximum number of shares you can buy through this promotion is 33
    shares.  If you want more, you'll have to buy them on the secondary
    market, after the IPO.  I think this will be another over-subcribed
    IPO.
    
    Bob

    Besides the Samuel Adams and Oregon brand names, what are the assets of
    the BBC?  Except for a small showcase brewery in Jamaica Plain and a
    brewpub in Philadelphia, all of their beers are contract brewed by
    other companies.
    
    Jamie

    Got my package in the mail last night.
    
    Lots of info.  Basically Class A stock, non-voting.  Allowed to buy 33
    shares for $495.  Must send in by November 16.
    
    I'm still working my way through the prospectus.
    
    Bernard
    

    [pulled from the business section of yesterdays globe, available from 
     "http://www.boston.com/globe/gloyest.htm". reprinted without permission]

   Boston Beer IPO could leave you with hangover 
   ==============================================

   By Steve Bailey, Steven Syre, Globe Staff , 11/01 

   The details on Boston Beer Co.'s intial public stock offer are in
   the mail, and they tell a story that might remind you of the
   firm's flagship brew, Sam Adams Boston Lager. Like a Sam,
   Boston Beer shares are a top-shelf product in a premium
   market. But any beer drinker will tell you that Sam Adams
   doesn't come cheaply. Ditto the stock. 

   Boston Beer's IPO shares could look like a good deal in a few
   years if the company can stay on its '90s hyper-growth track.
   But investors who buy this stock are paying a price based on
   expectations, not the business as it exists today. 

   Boston Beer, which also makes 13 other ``craft'' brews
   (translation: not mass produced but expensive), is preparing
   to sell 5.3 million common shares, including an unusual direct
   sale to customers of 990,000 shares in 33-share lots. Founder
   Jim Koch will retain voting control and own a somewhat liquid
   personal stake in Boston Beer that could easily be worth more
   than $118 million. And it's been getting a lot of attention
   already. Some of the notoriety has to do with the spectacular
   success of another recent IPO from a well-known craft
   brewer, Redhook Ale Inc. 

   Unlike Redhook investors, Boston Beer shareholders will be
   buying into the US craft brewing leader with a commanding
   market share. Boston Beer sold 714,000 barrels of beer last
   year, which it says in documents was more than the volume of
   its next six competitors combined. Pete's Brewing Co.,
   producer of Pete's Wicked Ale, was a distant second with
   182,000 barrels, according to the New Brewer, a trade
   publication. 

   And the craft beer market continues to expand dramatically.
   Analyst Robert Leininger of Gabelli &Co.estimates craft
   brewers, now 2 percent of the domestic beer market, will
   account for 5 percent by the end of the decade. 

   Boston Beer sales have grown by more than 50 percent a year
   through most of the 1990s and are still humming along at well
   above 40 percent a year. 

   Big market share. Highly visible brand name. Great product.
   Growing market. Ready for a cold one yet? 

   Keep reading first. 

   Say Boston Beer stock eventually hits the street at the
   midpoint of what the company's underwriters are expecting to
   get: $12.50 a share. That's roughly 38 times the profits Boston
   Beer will likely earn this year, based on results through the
   first nine months of 1995. The multiple goes up into the
   mid-40s if the price is $15 a share. 

   That's pretty pricey territory for your everyday domestic suds
   (Anheuser-Busch trades at 16 times this year's expected
   earnings). But go up a few shelves and look what happened to
   Redhook Ale this year. 

   Redhook went public at $17 a share in August and traded up to
   $27 its first day on the market. Redhook soared to an
   astonishing $34.75 in less than two weeks but has since
   settled back down into the $27-$28 range. 

   Still, it's trading at 62 times this year's earnings estimates
   and 42 times the consensus forecast by analysts for 1996
   profits. Leininger, one of the few people to venture an estimate
   on Redhook's 1997 business, figures the current price to be
   about 35 times profits expected for that year. 

   IPOs with big price multiples are always a risk unless you are
   buying a company with a product that will change the world.
   Contrary to some opinions, beer does not qualify. 

   Meanwhile, the market for craft brewery stocks is trading with
   all the discipline of a keg party. Just because the market
   supports big price multiples today, it doesn't mean those
   conditions will be certain six months from now. 

   Still, a price equal to 38 times Boston Beer's 1995 earnings
   may seem very reasonable in a couple of years if the company
   can maintain the pace of growth it has pulled off in the '90s. 

   But rapid growth is no lock either. Giant domestic brewers,
   stuck in a broader beer market that is barely growing, could
   move in quickly on the craft brewers and their niche.
   Anheuser-Busch already owns 25 percent of Redhook and has
   a distribution alliance with the company. 

   Boston Beer's IPO investors will own an even smaller stake
   in their company. A total of 5.3 million shares are for sale, but
   that's just 21 percent of the 24.8 million shares outstanding. 

   Existing stockholders are selling 2.8 million shares in the IPO
   while the company itself is only selling 2.5 million. The good
   news is the founders, venture partners and others who got in
   on the ground floor are holding on to about 75 percent of their
   investment. Koch himself is keeping all his shares. 

   The final price of the Boston Beer offering has yet to be
   determined, but small investors eligible to buy 33 shares must
   put up the full $15 a share. They will get a refund if the
   eventual offering price is lower. Subscription agreements must
   be in by 12 noon, Nov. 16. 

    Based on the article in .5
    
    Redhook is currently at 76 P/E.  This would = $25/share for the same
    P/E or Boston Beer Co.
    
    Mark (and my basic math)

    Re: .5
    
    Hi Steve
    
    FWIW, the prospectus spends a lot of time explaining the risks,
    including increased competition in the premium beer category and the
    fact that large companies are getting into that space.  Also potential
    problems with supply of raw materials, availability of excess capacity
    brewing space, etc.
    
    They explain that you will be issued a 33 share certificate within a
    few days of the launch which may be difficult to dispose of because
    it's an odd lot.  This approach also means that you won't know for a
    few days whether you have stock or not.  So you can't buy in the
    morning and sell in the afternoon to make some kind of killing.
    
    All interesting reading.
    
    Bernard

    Why would an odd lot be difficult to dispose of?  Brokers trade odd
    size lots for people all the time.
    
    Am I missing something here?  Once you get your 33 share certificate
    and decide to sell, can't you just give the certificate to your broker,
    or, give it to your broker as soon as you get it so they hold it for
    you???
    
    I got the same mailing, have not had a chance to read it yet, but I
    will probably send them a check within 24 hours.
    
    Mark

> Why would an odd lot be difficult to dispose of?  Brokers trade odd
> size lots for people all the time.

	I believe round lots get priority on the trading floor, and
	that odd lots need to be combined somewhere to make round lots.
	But this may apply only to NYSE and AMEX listed issues?
	In any case, odd lots for a low trading volume stock I would
	imagine would be more difficult.

	FWIW, even on NASDAQ I believe only round lots actually go
	through the trading floor as if you look at the volume for
	any stock, it's always a multiple of 100.  And on my limit
	orders on NASDAQ (and AMEX) issues I've sometimes have gotton
	partial executions, with each partial being a multiple of 100.

	On the other hand I've never had a problem getting an order
	executed that consisted of an odd lot (like 125, 150), but
	these were always on issues with a healthy trading volume.
	On low trading volume stocks (especially on NASDAQ) I've had
	trouble getting executions on round lots!

    I too never had a problem disposing of odd lots. I once sold
    4 shares of Disney, when they stopped giving free MKC memberships
    to stockholders.  When odd lots are placed thru brokers, they are
    combined with other odd lots from other customers.  Also,
    if there is no buyer for a stock, then the floor broker has
    to buy it, until a buyer shows up. Otherwise if he waited until
    someone reluctantly came up with a bid, then there would be wild
    swings in a stock's price. Floor brokers even this out.
    
     As for Boston Beer, let's look at the math here.  There are 990,000
    shares being offered under this plan in exactly 33 share units.
    That's 30,000 new stock owners.  I'm with Merrill Lynch, the world's
    largest brokerage house.  How many of the 30,000 Beer owners are
    going to sell thru Merrill?  I'd guess many thousands. Therefore
    the odds are good that your order will never reach the floor, just get
    combined and distributed around their customer base.  With minimum
    trade commissions, and the market of beer aficionados is not as
    loaded with savvy investors, I'd guess not a lot of these will go thru
    discount brokers.  There you'd save if you had 2-300 shares, but 33!(?)

> When odd lots are placed thru brokers, they are
> combined with other odd lots from other customers.

	Yup, as I indicated.  But this also brings into the problem
	I alluded to when dealing with "low trading volume" stocks ....
	DIS obviously doesn't suffer from that :-)

> Also, if there is no buyer for a stock, then the floor broker has
> to buy it, until a buyer shows up.

	Given that's true (I can't confirm/deny), I would imagine it
	would only be true if the seller is selling "at market".
	The last time I sold at market on a low volume stock the
	market price dropped a 1/4 pt (this was on GTY).  Now I only
	ever sell with a limit price because of that fear.  Especially
	now since I'm trading more shares of a single stock than back.

    Did anybody got the share at the IPO price?  I had sent them the
    application but have not heard from them yet.  The check has not been
    cashed either.
    
    - Vikas

    I heard on the news this morning that the number of repsonses exceeded
    the number of available shares by a factor of three.  I would guess
    that a lot of folks will be seeing their check returned.
    
    Ken

    As I recall, you won't hear that you've received the stock until some
    time after the IPO has occurred.  In yesterday's WSJ, the new issues
    said that it would be issued during the week.  Today's WSJ New
    Securities Issues section (Page C20) says:
    
       Boston Beer Co. (SAM) - initial offering of three million common
       shares priced at $20 each, through underwriters led by Goldman,
       Sachs, & Co.
    
    So it looks like we may know by Thanksgiving!  
    
    Bernard

    So about 90,000 people sent checks, my wife and I included.  Only
    30,000 will receive shares.  Seems like many people here at DEC sent
    checks in also...

    I show SAM trading now at 30.125.  I sure hope I got in!

    Kevin

    I just checked on the Security APL quote server and saw it at $30.375
    as of 11:25.
    
    Hope we all got in.  I'll probably hang onto it for the longer term. 
    After all, a 100% return on $495 ain't enough to retire on.
    
    Bernard
    

    I predict $25-26 after the dust settles...  Mark

    They cashed my check...so I guess I am in...since the IPO was at $20
    I presume I will get 19 shares and a check for the remainder part of 
    a share.  Now to decide round up to 100 now or wait to see if this
    settles back (right now I am thinking of waiting until it settles back).
    Hope you all got in also...
    
    Michael

    re: .-1 according to the Globe artice, all mailed in orders
    that were accepted will be honored at the $15 price for the full
    33 shares.  I'm still waiting to see if I got in. 

    FWIW, I checked with my bank and my check was cashed on the 21st.  As
    this was the day of the issue, it sounds like I'm in.  I'm assuming
    they wait until then so they don't have to pay interest on unused
    amounts.
    
    Bernard
    

    I'm jealous - I called the 800 number, but never even got an info
    package.
    
    Best of luck to all of you that did get in on the buy !

    Got my (33) shares yesterday...so that confirms that it is at
    $15.00/share not $20.00.
    
    Michael

    I also got in.....I called 800-526-0801 to confirm.

    Got my certificate yesterday.  Something interesting (maybe).  The top
    of the certificate says " Temporary Certificate - Exchangeable for
    Definitive Engraved Certificate - When Ready for Delivery."
    
    The certificate is as good looking as most any I've ever seen.  I have
    no idea what a Definitive Engraved Cerificate is.
    
    Anyway it looks negotiable.  I'm thinking of foregoing the Engraved
    stuff and sending it to my broker to hold in street name.  When I
    decide to sell, I don't want any delays.  Anyone want to make a case
    for the Engraved stuff being worth $900 plus, framed?
    
    Bob

    My Cert. says the same.  I don't remember the prospectus saying
    anything about it.
    
    I cannot make a case of getting the engraved version!
    
    PM

    Got mine too!  Wish more companies would allow individual investors 
    such an opportunity.

    Got mine also.  I have a feeling that the definitive engraved version
    is one that conforms to stock exchange rules regarding certificates. 
    For example, I believe there must an an engraved image of a full person
    on the front (normally some woman kind of like the Columbia Pictures
    woman in flowing robes is shown), there are other elements that must be
    present, but can't remember them.
    
    Hmm, how many Sam Adams would I have to drink to use up the 'profit' if
    I sold?  ;-)  Think I'll hang on for now.
    
    Bernard

> Got mine too!  Wish more companies would allow individual investors 
> such an opportunity.

	In this case it was probably to their benifit given that according
	to the base note in order to get in on this IPO that you had to
	buy the company's product.

	I wonder if they will have a spike in their sales volume for the
	applicable period of time?

    My wife and I both got our certificates last Friday also.  We got it
    without buying products.  I do drink and enjoy their beer, but
    we got in by calling directly and registering at the end of the summer,
    and sending in the money!
    
    Mark

    My wife and I got in the same as .30.  Namely, calling, getting the
    prospectus, and sending in money.

    Kevin

      Don't think I made it in time. I called the toll free number and they
    did not have my Social Security number on file. Guess I go back to
    drinking Yuengling lager.
    
                                             JRW

      Actually, they could have generated more ill will, if the number of
    people who got turned down, vastly exceeded the number that were accepted. 
    
      .32 What is Yuengling lager?
    
    

    
    I sent my money in too, guess I didn't make it under the
    wire.  Oh well, I'll still drink the beer...
    
    Bart
    

    Yuengling is a local brewer either in the midwest or PA.  They make the
    Little Kings.  Good stuf IMO.

      Yuengling is America's oldest brewery located in Pottsville, Pa.
    Since 1829. It's the beer of choice around these parts.
    
                                                  JRW
                                            

    
    
    	Like apparently lots of folks, we sent in our check to subscribe to
    	this offering.  The check has not been cashed, nor has it been
    	returned.
    
    	Has anyone had their check returned as of yet?  My guess is that if
    	we got in this offer, the check would have been cashed by now.
    
    	I've been calling the 800-526-0801 number, but its ALWAYS busy.
    
    	Thanks,
    
    	Diane

    
    
    	Update - I just reached someone at customer service, 800-526-0801.
    	Those whose checks were not cashed already will have them returned
    	early in December, like this week or next.  So watch the post.
    
    	Diane

    So, do we have to wait for the "real certificates" in order to sign and
    send them to our brokers or can we send the "temp certificates"?
    
    Anyone know?  Thanks, Mark

    The certificates look negotiable to me.  

    Does anyone know why SAM shares have been taking such a beating
    lately?
    
    Krish

> Does anyone know why SAM shares have been taking such a beating lately?

	NBR or CNN's Moneyline say Boston Beer was down after some analyst
	said these types of beers were just a fad that is now fading ....

yeah... some analyst with lots of "short" options :-)

- jeff