Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    Pick a Growth or Growth and Income or Aggressive Growth Mutual fund
    that has a good 1, 3, 5 year track record and invest the money at three
    different times (each quarter $500.00) and then sit tight for the Long
    Trem Time horion that you talked about.  
    
    Berger 100, Kaufman, Janus Mercury, Janus Enterprise, Invesco Value
    Equity, Fidelity Balanced etc etc are a few of many choices of funds
    that make a lot of sense - especially when you read about the manager's
    philosophy of investing.  Most of these have low minimums in non-IRA
    accounts, no loads (back or front) and OK on expenses --- But GOOD ON
    RESULTS.  
    
    There are other notes in here that will give you other ideas, but this
    is a good starting point. 
    
    Ken
    

    I recommend the Southwest Pacific Rim Techtonic Drift Emerging
    Continent Contrarian Uncomfortable Investor Equity Value Fund.
    
    You should be in that.  ;-) kb

    re .2
    
    What was the name of that fund again ?
    

    Hello,
     I am very interested in investing some money, but I don't know how or
    where to begin. Can you make any suggestions?
    

re                      <<< Note 731.4 by LEDS::AWILLIAMS >>>
                           -< Investment Questions >-

>    Hello,
>     I am very interested in investing some money, but I don't know how or
>    where to begin. Can you make any suggestions?
 

read lots of notes in here.
read notes in digital_investing
read the business section of your newspaper.

read read read read read.

then, invest.   

    
    > Hello,
    > I am very interested in investing some money, but I don't know how or
    > where to begin. Can you make any suggestions?
    
    Send it to me!  I'll have a good time in Vegas! ;-)
    
    Seriously, the last note has the best advice: read read read read read.
    Where you invest your money depends on a multitude of factors
    including how much money you have to invest, your age, your
    personality, how much risk you're willing to take, etc.
    
    Some suggested starting points:
    
    	*  Charles Givens books (e.g., Wealth without Risk):  Whether or
    	   not your subscribe to his investment philosophy he describes
    	   various investment vehicles and their relative pros & cons.
    	   Written for the lay person who knows nothing about investing.
    	   Personally, I like his philosophy.  It parallels when my
    	   proverbial rich uncles told me.  Basically it goes something
    	   like this.  Invest 10%-20% of your gross income.  Time will
    	   do the rest.  Doesn't really matter what you invest in; in
    	   20-30 years you'll be rich.  Fortunately for my uncles, they
    	   figured this out when they were 20 and were independently 
    	   wealthy by the time they were 40.  And don't put all your eggs 
    	   in one basket.
    
    	*  Money Magazine:  Lots of good articles. Check back issues at
    	   the library.
    
    Good luck,
    Dave
    
    
    

    
	Two good books with a decidedly Canadian slant, especially if
	you're looking at increasing your net worth overall, not just
	what stocks to invest money in are: 

		The Wealthy Barber 
		The Ultimate Money Guide for Canadians 

	Check the "business/financial" section of any mass market book
	store in Canada. 

	And I agree with the read read read read advice.  It's a jungle
	out there. Also, diversification is good.

	\bjk 

    
    I'll second the vote for "The Wealthy Barber".  Even though it has a
    slight Canadian bias, the principles can be applied anywhere.
    
    It's a very easy read (about 4-5 hours), and it's written in plain
    english.  It's one of the best I've read.
    
    Good luck

    I am also a novice wannabe investor and I have a slightly different
    slant. I already have several stocks that I do not want to sell but I
    want to understand several options available for me to use their value.
    
    Where, please, can I learn about borrowing against stock, about broker
    accounts, broker services, discount brokers and their services, banks
    and their services concerning stocks, and so forth. I understand that
    if I keep the stocks as their dividends reinvest, the portfolio will
    increase in value. At the same time that I borrow against their value
    (if that is my best option), I want to minimize my out of pocket
    expense as well as minimize my tax obligation.
    
    Please advise me what books, magazines, journals, or people I can speak
    to that can help me understand all of these options and possibly open
    my eyes to others.
    
    Thanks,
    ERIC
    
    PS - Private mail is acceptable too. Thanks.

    I have a contact who is in a responsible (ie insider) position in 3com.
    This person reckons that their shares are due to go up as a result of
    their year end results. 
    
    Unfortunately: 1. I know little about share trading
    		   2. Am finding it difficult to find out any info on 3com's
    performance on a day to day basis (ie the WSJ Europe/FT Times is out of
    date/and or not easy to get hold of).
    
    Does anyone have any knowledge of 3com/performance they could share
    with me (on or offline)?
    
    thanks in advance, martin (in France)
    
    
    

    Well here is some info that I have - It does not have the quartely
    breakdown, plus it's just a ton of typing to do for each quarters
    results. 
    
    		1991	1992	1993	1994E	
    
    REV		414M	424M	617M	800M
    NET INC	-24	8M	39M	80M
    EPS		-.79	.26	1.20	2.45
    
    Zweig rated this stock as #1 (BEST) and Value Line also had this stock
    as the stock of the week in early 1994. 
    
    The last four quarters have shown increases of 127%, 111%, 125%, 117%. 
    This is slightly older data (prior to Feb quarter results).  This is
    trading at approx 20-25 Est EPS'95 so it is not cheap according to the
    usual PE Ratio standards (but compared to the growth rate it is
    fabulous since it sports a great 4:1 ratio!!!!). 
    
    Thats it for now. 
    
    Ken

    OK well I bought some at ~58, they dropped hahahahahah to ~48 but are
    now slicing (from  ~1 week ago) back up to ~63 last news I heard. This is 
    presumed to be in  anticipation of a 2-1 split due on Sept 1st. 
    Information is that 1/2 yearly results will be good in December, when
    delivery problems are out of the way.  
    
    Any ideas? I'm tempted to sell some around the 28/29th Aug and keep
    some on to see what the split does. (I'd appreciate any views you have;
    also do I have to do anything about shares I hang on to or do I get
    notified of the split and the number of new shares I have?)
    
    Believe me I am one _naive_ user! 
    
    Thanks for any help. I'm now investigating WWW server info to try and
    chase the ups and downs.
    
    cheers, martin

  This note will sound like many other notes in here.  I am a recent college
graduate and would like to start investing.  As I was an engineering major, I
never took any business classes, so my knowledge in this field comes from
my personal reading and studying, although I will soon (hopefully) be going
for my master's in finance.  I have done some extensive reading about investing
and have even attended a few seminar's that my parents were invited to about
saving for retirement....
....But, back to the real question -

  Since I have just graduated, I am very debt-free: my only current bills are
car insurance, as I still (argh!) live at home.  Because of this, I have
developed a fairly sizeable amount of savings that are currently wasting away
in a checking account earning a whopping 1.5% rate!  

  My question is really two parts:

	1)  As I will be moving out soon, I have to decide to either rent or
	    buy.  What I would buy now would necessarily be fairly cheap, less
	    than $100k; this rules out most houses, leaving only condo's, which
	    haven't proven to be the best investment in the past 5 years.  So,
	    do you think I would be better off buying now, spending some of my
	    savings, and getting a jump on that first home purchase, or should
	    I rent for a year or two, and use the money I would have used for
	    a downpayment to augment the amount I invest.
	
	2)  As I will be investing no matter what I decide to do (only the 
	    amount will change), where do you think the best place to start
	    off is?  I have contacted a variety of financial services, from
	    discount brokers (Waterhouse) to full brokerage houses (Fidelity).
	    I am doing a lot of research into this before I jump in, and I
	    would like to do more than simply put money in a mutual fund and
	    let it sit, but as I have no experience, I don't know where to
	    start.  I also don't want to end up spending thousands of dollars
	    a year in commissions and transaction fees.


  So, I guess all of the above really boils down to this: If you were 23 years
old and were looking to finally move out of the house as well as start playing
the investment game, where would you start?  

    you start with goals.  What do you really want to accomplish?  Why buy
    a house if you aren't going to live in it or rent it or do something
    with it?  Investments in mutuals take a while.  Do you have 5 years to
    wait before you want to do something else with your money?  
    
    Next comes a plan.  How much a month can you afford to invest, and
    where?

    Whatever you do, don't buy a house/condo if you're thinking of it as an
    investment. Buy it because you want to live there. As a 23-year-old,
    probably single (I'm assuming, since you live at home), you're pretty
    mobile. What if you decide to transfer to a job somewhere else?
    Houses/condos aren't very liquid. 
    
    Yes, I'm advising renting.

    Okay, thanks for the quick replies.  To answer some of the questions;
I am looking for a place to live - not as an investment.  Also, I have lived
in a variety of places growing up due to my father being in the Air Force, and
thus have no "home".  I would like to make New Hampshire my "home", at least
for a few years anyway.  While I am not unwilling to move, I have no plans on
either a job change, or of leaving New Hampshire/Mass. in the next 5-10 years,
but then again, most people don't.  
    I am single, although this may not be true in the next 2 years...  So, my
goals are really twofold:  I am obviosuly starting now in order to save for
a house for my family, kids, college and retirement; in addition I am also 
looking for my investment to provide income.  So, I am looking for both long-
term investments (20 years) and short-term (under 5 years).  I would like
to have a balanced portfolio to insure consistent returns, but also allow for
me to "play" with certain investments, especially in stocks or options.
    As far as how much I can afford to invest a month, that will depend to
an extent on whether I rent or buy, and how much that will cost.  I have looked
at renting somewhat, and the 1-bedroom rates I have seen are in the $600/month
neighborhood - kind of high for not getting anything in return.
    In general though, I plan to be able to invest between $300 - $500 a month.
I hope this has answered some questions.  

Rob

    Rob...
    
    First, GET MOST OF YOUR MONEY OUT OF A 1.5% SAVINGS ACCOUNT!
    
    IMHO, a great place to start would be either Schwab or Fidelity and
    move the money into a money market fund, which should pay in the 3-5%
    rate as we speak. Assuming you have => $10k saved, there'll be no
    charge for a "sweep" account. I use Schwab...you get a brokerage
    account, access to MANY mutual funds, a VISA debit card, etc.
    
    BTW, Fidelity isn't a "full service broker". Fidelity and Schwab are
    discount brokers. They won't provide any advice (stock recommendations)
    but will execute trades, sell you research reports, and send you well
    integrated monthly & annual statements.
    
    I'll finish by echoing the previous notes. Figger out your goals first.
    Sounds like you should probably start with (IMHO) a mix of "agressive
    growth" and " growth and income" mutual funds (no load), and possibly
    some bond funds (tho I've never cared for these). There are many fine
    fund families, include Vanguard, Janus, Fidelity, 20th Century, and
    many others. Subscribe to Money magazine.
    
    If you plan to invest in individual stocks, fine. I do (in addition to
    mutual funds). My own strategy is fairly simple. Know the most you can
    about  any company you're considering investing in. Know their
    industry and competitors. Look at their growth and earnings history and
    prospects. Make sure you understand whether you care about dividends or
    not. For example, most/all of my investments are in the computer/sw,
    pharm/health care industries. I THINK (hope ;-) I have a good
    understanding of these industries, and the individual companies in
    which I've invested. Diversification is also important. I've had one or
    two investments not pan out...despite these, I've averaged about a
    16-18% annual return on my personal account and the UGMA accounts I
    manage.
    
    
    Understand the timeframe for your investment...over the short term
    (i.e., up to 18 - 24 months), stock prices CAN be largely
    unpredictable, as emotions, expectations and a "herd instinct" among
    individual and institutional investors can have more impact on stock
    price than a companies fundamental value.
    
    And, as was mentioned, if you want to own a home, buy a home. Aside
    from the "warm and fuzzies" you'll get, the tax benefits (fed only, I
    suppose for NH) help also. If you're not ready to commit for several
    years AT LEAST to a single residence, rent, else closing costs and real
    estate commissions will more than offset any [potential? possible?
    unlikely?] gains.
    
    Also, remember, free advice is worth everything it costs ;-)
    
    Steve

re: .13

	Don't forget to sign up for SAVE, even if you only put in 2%.
Time is on your side if you start now!

-AW

re                      <<< Note 731.16 by KOALA::BRIGGS >>>
                         -< some more information... >-

>    Okay, thanks for the quick replies.  To answer some of the questions;
>I am looking for a place to live - not as an investment.  Also, I have lived
>in a variety of places growing up due to my father being in the Air Force, and
>thus have no "home".  I would like to make New Hampshire my "home", at least
>for a few years anyway.  While I am not unwilling to move, I have no plans on
>either a job change, or of leaving New Hampshire/Mass. in the next 5-10 years,
>but then again, most people don't.  

Rob,

first off, i'm now 29, married 1 yr, recent homeowner, etc.  i started investing
when i was about 24 or so, and believe me, it was a smart move!  we were able
to buy a nice first house and _still_ keep 60k in investments/savings.  it was
thru savings disipline, wise investing, and starting young that allowed us to
do what we did.  on that note, here's what i advise:

-definitely rent.  if you plan to marry in 2 yrs, your wife might not want to
buy a condo.  also with your wife's income/savings, you may be able to afford
a lot nicer home than on 1 income/savings.  i suggest for you to move out
and live with others, in a house/apt/whatever to save more money, unless you
have a dying desire/need to live alone.  you can easily find a roommate
situation for less than $400/mo.  then, when you marry, continue renting for
a while to build even more savings.  we lived together before being married
in a dumpy place for $700.00 /mo for 3 yrs.  we were able to save 10s of
thousands of dollars in 3 yrs.

>    I am single, although this may not be true in the next 2 years...  So, my
>goals are really twofold:  I am obviosuly starting now in order to save for
>a house for my family, kids, college and retirement; in addition I am also 
>looking for my investment to provide income.  So, I am looking for both long-
>term investments (20 years) and short-term (under 5 years).  I would like
>to have a balanced portfolio to insure consistent returns, but also allow for
>me to "play" with certain investments, especially in stocks or options.

how much under 5 yrs? 1 yr?  if the timeframe is really low, look for income
funds.  as for your 20 yr horizon, go aggressive growth all the way!!  right
now, i think my balance is about 67% aggressive, 33% cash, and we are both
29.  forget about buying individual stocks/options for a while.  you need to
first get comfortable w/ aggressive MFs first - you need to go thru at least
1 or 2 downturns to see how you stomach it.  then, when you're confortable,
increase the risk and do the stocks/options thing.  i tell, ya, playing with
stocks and options takes _a_lot_ of dough! IMO...

also, DCA into the aggressive growth fund.  find a no-load fund, and invest
automatically on a monthly basis.  right now, we DCA 150/mo in a japan fund
and 150/mo into a europe fund.

jc

re    <<< Note 731.18 by 24353::SLBLUZ::WINKLEMAN "tolerance is tolerable" >>>
                                   -< SAVE >-

>	Don't forget to sign up for SAVE, even if you only put in 2%.
>Time is on your side if you start now!


YES!  this is a very good point.

in fact, i'd make it #1 priority to do this first, then the MFs.
put the $$ in aggressive growth funds.

    Thanks again for the replies.  Okay, for starters - I will be enrolled
in SAVE starting this Dec.  I decided to not start in Oct. as I first wanted
to investigate all of my investment options - I only started working in June.
Also, I have heard a little about the stock plan here at Digital.  Do you
feel that it would be wise to start in that?  I would hope the stock would
start to climb back up as a result of the company (hopefully) turning around.
Also, since the money in the SAVE plan is not available, without penalty, for
another 40+/- years, what is your feeling on the amount that is put into it?
I know it is a pre-tax deduction, which helps out with the tax situation, but
what are the relative rates of return for the funds available.  In the book
I received, it stated that the the interest rate of the guaranteed income
fund was 8.65%, which seems fairly high - do the other funds return even 
higher rates, or is this number out of date (as it looks like the booklet
was printed in 1991)  I feel I may start with either 2% or 4% deposits.

    I am planning on starting out by investing in mutual funds.  Some that I
have already investigated are:
	Fidelity Emerging Markets (EmrMk)
	Fidelity Eurpoean  (Europ)
	Fidelity Value  (Value)
	Templeton Group Growth  (Grwth)

    I will be looking at more soon once I receive other prospectus.  I will
also try to decide which broker I will use once I have reviewed all of their
information.  I am currently looking at Fidelity, Schwab and Waterhouse.  Any
opinions?

Thanks,

Rob 

The three stock funds in the current SAVE plan are fund C
(Vanguard Windsor), fund D (Bankers' Trust Russell 2000 
index), and fund E (Vanguard S&P 500 index).

View your SAVE investment as part of your retirement 
fund and choose from these stock funds as a long-term
investment. The SAVE plan for 1995 might have more 
choices--none of the current funds are aggressive 
growth funds.

With the choices for SAVE funds changing soon, we all
may be moving funds around next year anyhow. 

When you move the money from 1.5% account to a money 
market fund that returns 4% or more, you might choose 
a money market fund with a mutual fund family that has 
funds you want to invest in.

    re:                  <<< Note 731.21 by KOALA::BRIGGS >>>
       
>Also, I have heard a little about the stock plan here at Digital.  Do you
>feel that it would be wise to start in that? 
    
    Yes. Max out at 10%, if you can. Regardless of what the stock does, you
    earn a very nice return if you sell right away. Not participating =
    leaving money on the table.
    

>Also, since the money in the SAVE plan is not available, without penalty, for
>another 40+/- years, what is your feeling on the amount that is put into it?
    
    Again, max out at 8%, if you can. Take full advantage of all
    opportunities for tax-deferred income, of which SAVE is one.
    
    Non-deductible IRAs are another. No tax deduction up front, but 40+
    years of tax-deferred compounding.

>I am currently looking at Fidelity, Schwab and Waterhouse.  Any
>opinions?
 
    Waterhouse is efficient, and low-cost.
                                         

>>I am currently looking at Fidelity, Schwab and Waterhouse.  Any
>>opinions?
> 
>    Waterhouse is efficient, and low-cost.

National Discount Brokers are the cheapest.

    FWIW -
    
    	If you save $2,000/year, starting when you are 19, and stop when
    you are 29, and leave the money in a money market account, you will
    have more when you are 65 than if you saved $2,000/year, every year,
    starting when you are 30.

re                      <<< Note 731.21 by KOALA::BRIGGS >>>
                         -< Thanks for the replies... >-


>    Thanks again for the replies.  Okay, for starters - I will be enrolled
>in SAVE starting this Dec.  I decided to not start in Oct. as I first wanted
>to investigate all of my investment options - I only started working in June.
>Also, I have heard a little about the stock plan here at Digital.  Do you
>feel that it would be wise to start in that?  I would hope the stock would
>start to climb back up as a result of the company (hopefully) turning around.


i'll echo other's responses:  MAX OUT if you can afford it.  nearly 15%
guarenteed every 6 months with very little down-side risk is a very wise
investment.  if i could put 50% of my pay into it, I would!

>Also, since the money in the SAVE plan is not available, without penalty, for
>another 40+/- years, what is your feeling on the amount that is put into it?
>I know it is a pre-tax deduction, which helps out with the tax situation, but
>what are the relative rates of return for the funds available.  In the book
>I received, it stated that the the interest rate of the guaranteed income
>fund was 8.65%, which seems fairly high - do the other funds return even 
>higher rates, or is this number out of date (as it looks like the booklet
>was printed in 1991)  I feel I may start with either 2% or 4% deposits.

don't even consider funds A and B... they are very conservative and better
fit for someone needing the money in a 0-8 yr timeframe.  go with the stock
funds... history says stocks nearly always outperform fixed-income type
funds.  and, max out if you can.  you can always back it off later if your
financial situation changes.  the idea is to put off paying taxes for as long
as possible, and doing 401k on a pretax basis serves this goal.

>    I will be looking at more soon once I receive other prospectus.  I will
>also try to decide which broker I will use once I have reviewed all of their
>information.  I am currently looking at Fidelity, Schwab and Waterhouse.  Any
>opinions?

i have Fido and h20-house.  Fido is expensive, and they limit the # of quotes
you can get.  h20-house has been fine by me, and you can also save another
10% off trades using their touch-tone system.  h20-house has always been
easy to deal with, willing to help me, and they never drop anything on the
floor (customer probs,etc, all have been handled with excellence).

    >I received, it stated that the the interest rate of the guaranteed
    >income
    >fund was 8.65%, which seems fairly high - do the other funds return
    
    That info must be a couple of years out of date. According to my last
    statement (rec'd yesterday), the *estimated* yield for the period
    beginning 10/1/94 is 6.0% (been dropping steadily at each adjustment
    [except 2 when it held even] since 7/90, when it was 9.01%).
    

    RE .13
    ROB,
    HERE IS MY INPUT FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH...
    KEEP IN MIND IF YOU BUY REAL ESTATE THAT YOU ARE GETTING APPRECIATION
    ON THE ENTIRE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY NOT JUST THE INVESTED DOLLARS
    EVEN THOUGH THE APPRECIATION MAY BE 1-2 % ANNUALLY,NOT TO MENTION THE
    TAX WRITE OFF(EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT A FAN OF PAYING $1.00 TO GET .80
    BACK).
    THE SECOND POINT IS THAT I AGREE THAT INVESTING YOUR MONEY IN MUTUAL
    FUNDS IS BETTER THAN THE 1.5% IN THE BANK BUT AT YOUR AGE YOU CAN
    I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD BE ALOT MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THAT.I BELIEVE
    THAT YOU SHOULD BE DIVERSIFIED BUT YOU CAN GROW YOUR PORTFOLIO ALOT
    FASTER INVESTING IN GOOD STRONG COMPANIES WITH GOOD GROWTH.FOR EXAMPLE
    HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE MICROSOFT STOCK SLIDE AND THAT IS NOT EVEN
    CONSIDERED FAST GROWING ANYMORE.TO DO THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE ALOT OF
    KNOWLEDGE OF THE STOCK MARKET, WHAT IT REQUIRES IS A GOOD BROKER
    BECAUSE YOU BETTER BET THAT THAT IS WHERE THERE MONEY IS GOING!
    NOT TO GET TOO TECHNICAL BUT ONE WAY I HAVE FOUND TO MAKE GOOD RETURNS
    IS TO SELL COVERED CALLS(OPTIONS) ON GOOD STOCKS YOU HAVE PURCHASED.
    IN CLOSING I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I STARTED INVESTING RIGHT AFTER
    I STARTED AT DEC WHEN I WAS 20 AND AND THAT WAS 11 YEARS AGO AND THINGS
    ARE BEGINNING TO SNOWBALL.SO BE SMART AND AGGRESSIVE!!!
    								MIKE

    RE: -1
    
    Regarding "getting appreciation on the entire value of the property not
    just the invested dollars", it can also happen the other way if the
    value of the property goes down, as many have found out painfully
    during the last few years!

    RE .29
    THAT IS TRUE BUT IF I FELT THAT WAY ABOUT THE MARKET WHERE YOU LIVE
    YOU SHOULD NOT BE BUYING.ALSO FROM BEING DROM SEATTLE AREA WHERE THINGS 
    HAVE GONE NOWHERE BUT NORTH IT IS HARD TO SEE THAT. AFTER TALKING ABOUT
    SOME OF THESE THINGS REGUARDING THIS NOTE I THINK THIS IS A GOOD
    CONVERSATION NOTE TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT STATEGIES... MAYBE 
    THERE SHOUL BE A NOTE CREATED FOR INVESTMENT STATEGIES... JUST A
    THOUGHT...MIKE

    re .30 and things in the seattle area going "nowhere but North"
    
    Would that it were true. Then I wouldn't really have lost the $20K on
    my house in Redmond, plus the commission, taxes, ...
    
    Bottom line is you can't count on anywhere going only up.

    re .31 and losing 20k in Redmond
    
    Sounds to me like you bought a house that was 20k+ overvalued since
    the price of lumber is up over 40% and I can't imagine that the
    lot value has decreased that much.I think alot of people tend to
    do that when the market is hot but don't look at the actual value.
    And yes you are right you can't count on things going up...but
    there are good buys in any market and also I am not looking at it
    in the short term.It could have been possible to sell your house
    yourself and save the commissions since I think that all that paying
    the commission gets you is on multiple listings.Sorry if I made it
    sound like it was easy.
    				mike