[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

654.0. "Govt Bonds vs Munis vs Gold funds?" by ASIC::MORA (Pedro J. Mora, ASIC Apps Engr Supr, DTN 297-5931) Wed Jan 05 1994 14:20

    
    I'm looking for some feedback on the following strategy:
    
    Say you have a $10-20K to invest and you'll need the money back (cash)
    in 2.5 - 3.0yrs.  What's the best investment strategy to get 5-6% (or
    better) with the lowest risk possible (for that return, that is)?
    
    I thought of intermediate term government bonds or municipal bond
    funds. However, interest rates should increase in that time period.  So
    I though maybe I would put some $$$ in a gold fund to "hedge" against
    the interest rate increase.
    
    Comments? Better strategies?
    
    Also, can someone shed any light on what can cause capital losses in
    government bonds and tax-free municipals, aside from interest rate
    increases?  Looking at some historical performance charts, I saw dips,
    for example in the Mar-Apr 93 timeframe.  Anyone remember what caused
    the dip?
    
    /pedro
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
654.1Why does it have to be 6%?TLE::JBISHOPWed Jan 05 1994 14:3943
    Another source of change is tax-law changes--for example, if the
    alternative minimum tax gets changed, some investors might not
    realize as much benefit from so-called "tax-free" bonds.  They
    thus would stop buying such bonds, reducing demand and so causing
    the price to go down.
    
    The market being what it is, all that's necessary for changes in
    bond values is for tax-law changes to be discussed!
    
    If you need _all_ your money in three years or less, your desired
    yield of 6% might be impossible to get; if you can take some more
    risk with some of the money you might do better on yield (with of
    course the risk of losing that fraction).  
    
    Gold funds don't necessarily go exactly counter to interest rates,
    alas, so that might not be the right way to go.  They have a lot
    of inherent political risk as well, if any of the underlying stocks
    are in South Africa.
    
    One option I'd be tempted to explore is buying stock plus selling
    calls and buying puts, but I suspect that the transaction costs
    would eat you alive, and you'd have some risk (though you could
    pick your level of risks).  The idea would be something like this:
    
    Capital:
    	buy 200 shares of X at 50 --  $10,000
    
    Every three months:
    	sell 2  calls for X at 55 --  $ 1,000
    	buy  2  puts  for X at 40 -- ($   500)
    	monthly profit -------------  $   500
    
    As the calls and puts expired, you'd buy new ones, picking
    calls with strike prices closer than the strike prices of the
    puts so as to balance your "yield" against the risk of a stock
    price drop and subsequent loss of the diffence between the 
    purchase cost and the put price.
    
    For an idea of the practicality of this approach, you'd have
    to look at real numbers for a volatile stock with good option
    liquidity.
    
    		-John Bishop
654.2Are munis and junk bond funds a good investment?ASIC::MORAPedro J. Mora, ASIC Apps Engr Supr, DTN 297-5931Tue Jan 25 1994 13:0425
    
    I have recently read in different publications that junk bonds and
    municipals will not suffer as much as other bonds (e.g. govt,
    corporate, zeroes) if the interest rate creep up.
    
    The rationale they present is that muni's will be supported by high
    demand especially once people finish their 1993 taxes and see how much
    more taxes they have to pay.  For junk bonds, they argue that the
    underlying quality of the junk bond will be more important than the
    interest rate movements.
    
    I am concerned about all bonds right now because of the potential
    interest rate spikes.  Yet I would like to invest some money in higher
    yielding investments, with lower risks that stock funds.  Thus the
    interest in bond funds.  
    
    Do you think munis and junk bond funds would be a good investment at
    this time?  Or, should I park the money in a "income" stock fund like
    Lindner Dividend?  Or, should I just leave the money in a tax free Money
    Market Fund.  Again, my goal was 5-6% interest for money I will need in
    2-3 yrs (for purchase of a new house).
    
    thanks,
    
    /Pedro
654.3Bond riskKOALA::BOUCHARDThe enemy is wiseWed Jan 26 1994 11:2617
    re: .2
    
    On the contrary, junk bonds and municipals may be more sensitive to
    interest rate changes that other bonds, all other things being equal.
    
    Junk bonds, in general, gain/lose more than investment grade bonds for
    the same interest rate swing.  However, an improving economy may help
    junk bonds more than investment grade bonds.  But predicting how the
    economy will do is no easier than predicting how interest rates will
    move.
    
    Municipals tend to be longer-term bonds, and long-term bonds have more
    interest rate risk than short term bonds.
    
    In general you will find that the bond market accurately prices bonds. 
    That is, a higher yielding bond almost certainly comes with a higher
    degree of risk.