Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    $ Set mode/irate
    
    	I get enough of this unsolicited bull-stuff in the mail and
    	via cold call.  Is this really necessary here ?  Moderators,
    	isn't this a proper time to pull out the DELETE/NOTE function.
    
    L.

.1....ditto

	I sent a note last night to both the moderator and the author
	of .0 (the moderator may not be at work today so we can't
	yell at them :-).

	The reason it should be deleted is because I believe it violates
	DEC's non-comercialization policy.  Ie. DEC resources are being
	used for personal profit!  I'd hate to see this notefile shut
	down by corporate because of one violator .....

    Perhaps the presentation was less sophisticated than we expect, but it
    didn't give me nightmares.

>     Perhaps the presentation was less sophisticated than we expect, but it
>     didn't give me nightmares.

	Are you saying you don't care that .0 is in violation of
	corporate policy?  Does that mean you are also santioning
	the posting of advertisements for non-DEC for-profit products?
	I'm sure we all have some friends who could benifit from
	some free advertising at DEC's expense ........

Could someone delete the base note please. I made a mistake in posting for 
a friend of mine. I didn't know the DEC policy on such type of notes.

Thanks in advance.

I sent email to the author of .0 explaing how
to delete notes.

./chris

I can't delete it. It complains about priviledges because it was posted
through usenet.

I sent the message to subway::system for deleting it.

Is this conference moderated?

I sent earlier a mail message to subway::system requesting for deletion 
of the base note. I also sent mail message to usenet adminisrator without any 
luck. In my opinion, only moderator can delete it.

-- Virendra

    At the request of the author, I have deleted .0.  Unless the author
    would like me not to send the text by mail to interested parties, I'll
    send it to people on request.

    Regarding this conference, it's really unusual to be in the position of
    defending myself for _not_ deleting a note which I believe is
    conforming to Digital's policies.

    Nearly every note in this conference is a form of advocacy for a
    particular investment strategy, idea, or vehicle.  .0 is an amateur
    effort to present a mutual fund newsletter.  It is a self-parody. The
    critical thing to me was that the "poster" was out-of-the-loop as far
    as the commercial aspect of this.  Ultimately, I think there's only a
    difference of degree between .0 and posting the 800 number for Vanguard
    Group or Forbes magazine in this conference.

	Here is the relevent section from a corporate memo.  The
	full memo is after the formfeed.  The question is, has this
	conference been "authorized" as a marketplace?

*>> Neither the notes conferences nor electronic mail should be used 
*>> to solicit other employees.  This prohibition covers efforts to 
*>> solicit employees for personal or political gain, to sell or 
*>> market goods or services (except authorized marketplace or 
*>> discount conferences) and efforts to solicit employees to take 
*>> action, sign petitions or support particular causes or candidates.
    
From:   Ron Glover, Corporate Personnel Policy Manager
Subj:	A Message to Employee Interest Notes File Users 


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     29-Jan-1992 11:49am EST
                                        From:     RON GLOVER
                                                  GLOVER.RON
                                        Dept:     Corporate Employee Relations
                                        Tel No:   508-493-9569

TO: Conference Moderators

Subject: A Message to Employee Interest Notes File Users                        

By way of introduction, I am the Corporate Personnel Policy Manager.  
Part of my responsibility includes providing interpretation of Digital's 
Personnel Policy, including the Personnel Policy 6.54.   I would greatly 
appreciate your assistance in posting the attached memo from John Sims in 
the Notes files you moderate, and as many other Employee Interest Notes 
Files as possible.  Please give me a call if you have any questions.

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     30-Jan-1992 
                                        From:     John Sims
                                                  SIMS.JOHN AT A1 at CORA @ CORE
                                        Dept:     Strategic Resources
                                        Tel No:   223-7243

TO:  Employee Interest Notes File Participants 

Subject:  A message to employee interest notes file users

           A MESSAGE TO EMPLOYEE INTEREST NOTES FILE USERS
    
    Over the last few months I have received a number of complaints 
    from employees, and individuals outside of the company about 
    material communicated in electronic mail systems and posted in 
    various employee interest notes files.  After reading some of this 
    material it is clear that a reminder about appropriate comment and 
    behavior in these systems is necessary.
    
    First, and most critically; the electronic mail systems and notes 
    files are company facilities subject to normal workplace rules of 
    conduct.   As such, the same rules that govern conduct and comment 
    in any other Digital workplace apply with equal weight in these 
    systems.  Stated simply, if you wouldn't say something in a 
    Digital business meeting, you shouldn't say it in electronic mail 
    or notes. PERIOD.  
    
    Statements that attribute improper, illegal or immoral motives or 
    actions to others; statements that cast aspersions on the 
    character or integrity of others or that amount to libel or 
    slander are not permitted. PERIOD.  In this regard, it does not 
    matter whether the individuals subject to the comment are elected 
    public officials or directors of organizations disfavored by the 
    author.   There is no "Public Figure" exception in these systems.
    
    Comments of a sexual nature are not acceptable whether they are 
    about the author or directed at others.  Similarly, comments that 
    degrade, devalue or discriminate against others are also 
    prohibited.
    
    Neither the notes conferences nor electronic mail should be used 
    to solicit other employees.  This prohibition covers efforts to 
    solicit employees for personal or political gain, to sell or 
    market goods or services (except authorized marketplace or 
    discount conferences) and efforts to solicit employees to take 
    action, sign petitions or support particular causes or candidates.
    
    Finally, employees should remember that it is never appropriate to 
    spend working time in employee interest notes for non-work 
    purposes.  Personal or entertainment activities in these notes 
    files should be limited to assigned break times, lunch time and 
    before or after business hours.  
    
    Employee interest notes files and conferences provide an 
    electronic forum to share ideas and opinions about matters of 
    common interest.  In supporting these conferences, the company 
    understood that there would be occasions where employees would 
    disagree on issues being discussed, but we believed and continue 
    to believe it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.  
    Personnel Policy 6.54, Proper Use of Digital Computers, Systems 
    and Networks provides further information about appropriate 
    conduct and comment in these systems.  Employees who fail to meet 
    these expectations, or who use company computer systems in ways 
    that are contrary to the letter or spirit of that policy are 
    subject to Corrective Action and Discipline up to and including 
    the termination of their employment.
    
    The moderators of these conferences, along with your system 
    managers, personnel representatives and the Personnel Policy 
    Manager are all available to answer any question you might have 
    about appropriate use of these systems.
    
    Please feel free to forward this memo to other Digital notes 
    files and conferences.

Distribution:  Selected conference moderators
        [Original list deleted]

My perception of the authors posting of the text in .0 (since it has
been deleted I can't go back and re-read to check my perception) was in the
context stated by the following excerpt taken from the latter part of the
memo:

>    Employee interest notes files and conferences provide an 
>    electronic forum to share ideas and opinions about matters of 
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
>    common interest.  In supporting these conferences, the company 

I don't remember the author saying he was employed by the firm
or would be receiving any kickbacks for his efforts in posting
the text in this conference.


********************************************************************************

I interpret the following statement to mean that users of
conferences should not be attempting to sell products or services
(as a business) for which they would gain monetarily.

*>> Neither the notes conferences nor electronic mail should be used 
*>> to solicit other employees.  This prohibition covers efforts to 
*>> solicit employees for personal or political gain, to sell or 
*>> market goods or services (except authorized marketplace or 
*>> discount conferences) and efforts to solicit employees to take 
*>> action, sign petitions or support particular causes or candidates.

********************************************************************************	

Re: .11  The question is, has this conference been
	"authorized" as a marketplace?

I don't think this conference needs to be "authorized". Its not a marketplace.
People are sharing their ideas about possible investments. What the
author posted in .0 was just another idea.

I think what people felt uncomfortable with was "slick" (I'd use something
stronger but this is a public conference so I'll be polite) wording
used in the text. When I first read the title of the note, I thought to
myself this might be interesting, but as I read into the meat of text
I was turned off by the "slickness" of the description of the service.
If these people have a valuable service to sell then I really think
they need to present the information in professional manner.

Ed

> I interpret the following statement to mean that users of
> conferences should not be attempting to sell products or services
> (as a business) for which they would gain monetarily.

	It explicitly states "solicitation" and "to sell goods
	or services".  .0 was doing both.

> *>> Neither the notes conferences nor electronic mail should be used 
> *>> to solicit other employees.  This prohibition covers efforts to 
> *>> solicit employees for personal or political gain, to sell or 
> *>> market goods or services (except authorized marketplace or 
> *>> discount conferences) and efforts to solicit employees to take 
> *>> action, sign petitions or support particular causes or candidates.

> People are sharing their ideas about possible investments. What the
> author posted in .0 was just another idea.

	.0 was not just another idea, it was clearly an "advertisement".
	In order to get the ideas you have to shell out $150/year.
	So called "Infomercials" on TV are the same thing.  They are
	"advertisements" trying to get you to buy their "ideas" for a price.

> I think what people felt uncomfortable with was "slick" (I'd use something
> stronger but this is a public conference so I'll be polite) wording
> used in the text.

	Like Infomercials, .0 was an advertisement deliberatly masquerading
	itself as a legit dicussion, until you got to the fine print
	buried 3/4 of the way into it.

	So, yes, I'm sure people felt uncomfortable with the manner
	.0 was presented, but that's only a secondary concern, .0
	first and formost was an ad, and in any form, I believe violates
	corporate policy.

	I've sent Ron of Corporate some mail asking him to give his
	input since the rest of us can only hypothosize :-)

    This actually is an "authorized marketplace conference" for things like
    mutual funds and mutual fund newsletters if we're going to be very
    literal about the conference policies.
    
    If this becomes a major problem, then I'll see if we need to restrict
    it.  I don't want to inhibit people from discussing what's out there in
    the marketplace of investing ideas.
    
    It would be fun, in my opinion, to pick apart some of these outrageous
    claims.

.13>	I've sent Ron of Corporate some mail asking him to give his
.13>	input since the rest of us can only hypothosize :-)

.3>	used for personal profit!  I'd hate to see this notefile shut
.3>	down by corporate because of one violator .....

Sigh... 

	a. The original note had already been deleted. So I thought
	the matter was resolved.

	b. The best way to increase the possibility of this file notesfile
	being shutdown is to notify "corporate" that someone made a
	mistake. Virendra did state:
 
.6> I made a mistake in posting for a friend of mine.
.6> I didn't know the DEC policy on such type of notes.



Okay. I'll have to back off a bit from my previous position. I went
back and re-read the note (the introduction):

On the one hand Virendra states:

.0> Neither me nor my company, DEC,
.0> is involved in this business. I will not receive any compensation
.0> from Vital Info.

which complies with the guidelines.


On the other hand he states:

.0> I am posting this note for someone else.

From this statement I will have to presume his "friend" asked him
to post the note about the company. By this fact the author of .0
probably crossed the line into the "solicitation" side. If the
author stated something like: "I came across this company in the
local newspaper and I think you should check this out". Then it
would not be a "solicitation" and, IMHO, be a "sharing of ideas".

Ed

.13>    I've sent Ron of Corporate some mail asking him to give his


Who's "Ron of Corporate?"  Are you referring to Ron Glover?

Dragging the high level folks from the executive suite into a discussion
like this is a great way to insure that it gets handled as quickly as
possible.  Note that "quickly" does not mean "as you would like or
expect."

These are busy people with lots more to do than referee notes conference
controversies.  

./chris