[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

377.0. "baseball cards?" by LEDS::SIMARD (There's no traffic jam on the extra mile!) Mon Feb 08 1993 08:28

    Ok, I know someone's going to think this is a very dumb question but
    how about investing in baseball cards?  If I bought a box a year, there
    would most certainly be some cards in there that would be worth quite a
    bit of money in 20 years.
    
    I  have a Larry Bird rookie card that was given to us and it's worth
    quite a bit at this time.  All I did was put it in a bank deposit box
    for all this time past.  
    
    I figure I'd only need to invest a couple of hundred a year to get
    something that would be worth quite a bit in 20 years.  Also the IRS
    would never know about it.  
    
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
377.1DSSDEV::PIEKOSZoo TVMon Feb 08 1993 08:4016
Couple of things to be aware of:

- Liquidity.  Trying to sell cards is tough, unless you sell way below "book"
  value.

- Saturation.  The baseball card market is *WAY* over-saturated.  The bottom is
  falling out of the newer cards.  There are so many sets/versions out there.

- There seems to be "hot" markets for newer stuff, with everyone trying to
  get 100's of the latest hot rookie, hoping for that expensive card, while
  older stuff (which holds more solid value), gets put on the back burner.

Check out the sports memorabilia notes file for the opinions of the serious
collectors.

John Piekos
377.2Comic books, plates, old furniture, paintings...TLE::JBISHOPMon Feb 08 1993 11:1511
    Cards are hot now, but who knows about twenty years from now?
    Check out what happened to other collectibles--they get their
    moment in the sun, then they fade.
    
    When people start selling stamps, paintings or coins on an
    investment basis it's time to get out: remember that the value
    of the item rests ultimately on "real" collectors, who love
    the things and buy from disposable income.  How much is that 
    population willing to pay for the existing supply of cards?
    
    		-John Bishop
377.3Prechter on the decline of baseballVMSDEV::HALLYBFish have no concept of fire.Tue Feb 09 1993 12:0242
 "_Baseball_

"THE ELLIOTT WAVE THEORIST presented a full page detailed discussion in 
the October 30 issue arguing that after 89 years, the trend of increasing
popularity of baseball had given eight major signs of topping.  
(Immediately thereafter in the post-season, team owners signed 34 players 
to contracts guaranteeing $258 million.  Barry Bonds will make over 
$45,000 a _game_, more than former top heroes made in a year; talk about 
locking in "Bond" yield...)

"The discussion three months ago concluded with some practical advice:

    If you're an investor, take profits on baseball cards.  If you're
    a player, sign a long-term contract.  If you're an owner, sell your club.

"That writeup apparently came at the top of a spike, just before a dramatic
reversal.  Here's a hot-off-the-press announcement of what's happened since:

	[quote from 1/27/93 WSJ article detailing 31% earnings drop
	 in baseball-card-maker Topps].

"Peter Kendall has just obtained data on baseball attendance during this
century.  As you can see by the chart, the figures appear to have traced out
an exceptional Elliott Wave, ending with the 1992 season.  Notice that the 
1981 strike brought attendance back to the preceding fourth wave, just as 
it was scheduled to do.  When the data is plotted on semilog scale (not shown),
the entire rise from the World War I low in 1916 forms a wedge, which has
bearish implications.  At minimum, then, _baseball faces its largest
percentage drop in attendance since it became the national sport_.
At junctures such as this, it is even appropriate to consider that it may
fall far enough out of favor in coming years to cease _being_ the premier
national sport.

    [sorry, unable to reproduce chart that was included]
    
Quoted with permission from the Feb93 issue of THE ELLIOTT WAVE THEORIST, 
Elliott Wave International, P.O. Box 1618, Gainesville GA 30503, 1-404-536-0309

Keep the Larry Bird but sell the baseball cards.  When the general public
rushes in, it's time for the smart money to head for the exits.
    
    John
377.4articles in paperTLE::COLLIS::JACKSONShoot that starTue Feb 09 1993 13:5433
I just read two articles in the paper the last week that
have bearing on this.  One of them was similar to .3
which indicated the *dramatic* decline of baseball's
popularity citing that only 6% named a baseball team when
naming their favorite team and only 4% named a baseball
player when naming their favorite athlete.  It also pointed
out that

  - there is no national baseball contract for weekly
    games
  - many kids growing up today have *never* seen a
    world series game to completion

Do you remember the excitement of catching World Series
scores when in school?  Rushing home at the bell to catch
the last few innings on t.v. or radio?

Baseball, for numerous reasons, is in decline.  Collectables
are dependent upon collectors which is dependent upon interest
in the sport.

The other article discussed card collecting specifically noting
that the market is oversaturated, that some companies are *losing*
money and that many people who got in as investors are starting
to get out (because the sport itself does not hold them to
stay in - only money which isn't necessarily there).  Collecting
is starting to go back to being done by collectors, but this still
has quite a ways to go.  Sounds to me like now is a bad time to
get into collecting, but that if you must, get quality cards from
the 60s and 70s which have a relatively stable price and you can
hope that they will continue to rise.  

Collis
377.5No longer the great American sport (except in Japan)ELWOOD::KAPLANLarry Kaplan, DTN: 237-6872Wed Feb 10 1993 08:587
    This rings true at my house.
    
    My 8-year-old son is very interested in following sports - especially
    basketball.  He has, however, an absolute zero interest in baseball. 
    His explanation: "it's boring".
    
    I confess, I must agree...