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Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

361.0. "Fund Closing to new investors?" by ROYALT::KARTEN () Wed Jan 20 1993 09:31

I'm trying to figure out some of the some of the pro's and con's of 
closed end funds.  When a fund declares its intent to close to new 
investors, is this a good time to purchase shares, or are the share 
prices likely to be inflated just prior to the fund's closing to new 
investors??

Also, are there any speical considerations for using a closed end 
fund as an investment for IRA funds??

Thanks for any information you can provide.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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361.1Fund Closing Does Not Make Closed-End-Fund.SOLVIT::CHENWed Jan 20 1993 11:0112
    re: .0
    
    Just a nit here... 
    
    A fund that is closed to new investors does not make it a "closed end 
    fund". On the other hand, a influx of cash to a fund, does not inflate 
    its price - it will only increase the fund's cash holding. I would not 
    judge a fund by looking at whether it's closed to new investors or not. 
    I would rather look at the fund's past performance and future performance 
    prospect.
    
    Mike
361.2A cynical viewGNPIKE::JOHNSONMatt JohnsonFri Jan 22 1993 09:407
    Actually, it's concerned me that Windsor is closed to new investors. 
    While people harp on the perils of the fund being over-subscribed, it
    still means that Vanguard is no longer marketing the fund.  There's a
    great temptation for them to put the fund on auto-pilot, and just let
    those captive 401K dollars roll in.  If I were Vanguard, I'd put my
    talent and energy on new funds that were likely to snatch investors and
    market share from Fidelity, not on sleepers like Windsor.
361.3Keep an eye on your investmentSOLVIT::CHENFri Jan 22 1993 10:0311
    re: .2
    
    That's why you got to contantly watch how your fund is doing. When the
    fund manager changes or the fund performance slides, it might be a
    signal for you to consider to pull part or all of your money out. 
    As far as Windsor is concerned, it's really a disappointment. But, for
    us DEC employees who gets into the 401K, what choices do we have? I 
    wish DEC can offer us more choices and use some of the better performing 
    funds instead.
    
    Mike
361.4You say you want a Revolution...WONDER::BENTOSend lawyers, guns and money...Fri Jan 22 1993 11:544
    Who do you complain to  about the SAVE Funds anyway?
    	Can you petition to have different funds?
    	 Anyone look into this before?
    	-TB
361.5I Say I Do...........!WFOV12::CERVONEFri Jan 22 1993 12:027
    Dito on .4
    
    	I tink we should all somehow get together and do some complaining
    to see if we can get a better veriety of funds available. If a big
    group sends in requests they are more likely to respond.
    
    FC
361.6Count me in...CADSYS::BOLIO::BENOITFri Jan 22 1993 12:406
It would be nice to have say INVESCO-Financial Group, with the Industrial Income,
and a few of the other funds they offer.....but we probally have as much change
in making that happen as we do having DEC match our contributions (like other
companies out there).

michael
361.7SOLVIT::CHENFri Jan 22 1993 14:4814
    You can see alotof complains in this Notes file. They are not only
    about the choices of SAVE funds, but also about many other things
    related to Investor Services. Almost all of these complains fell to
    deaf ears. Maybe it's because there is no organized voice here.
    Everybody are just acting on their own. But, I am sure there are enough
    people who are willing to sign a petition. Let's take a poll here in
    the Notes file to see how many people are interested in seeing more
    change made. I for one would like to see more changes made to our SAVE
    plan and Investor Services.
    
    Mike
    
    PS.  BTW, I think this discussion should be moved to the DIGITAL_INVESTING
         Notes file. 
361.8T&Cs are a considerationVINO::FLEMMINGHave XDELTA, will travelFri Jan 22 1993 16:395
    I suspect a major consideration in the choice of Windsor is cost so
    unless "you" can propose a fund which will provide the same services
    at a competitive cost, I doubt anyone at IS will pay any attention
    to your revolution. Afterall, the 401K is a benefit and its not free
    to the corporation (even if they don't match investments).
361.9BRAT::REDZIN::DCOXSat Jan 23 1993 08:2477
A few comments on selection of Windsor for a retirement plan.

First, the folks trusted with manageing retirement monies are expected to place
those monies in investment vehicles that will meet the stated objectives of the
plan,  all  the  while demonstrating prudence in their  practices.    They  are
legally responsible to prove that they are generally accepting  no  more  risks
than are consistent with the plan's goals.    

For those who want minimal  risk,  the  plan  offers  insurance contracts.  For
those  are  willing  to  accept the  risks  generally  associated  with  equity
investing, a variety of funds are offered.   The Windsor fund was selected as a
fund that invests in large companies.  The Windor fund is generally accepted to
be a very well managed fund in that it  meets  the objectives in its prospectus
maintaining minimal capital risk and with very low management fees.  

Clearly, you can get  better  returns  from  other  vehicles.    However, those
returns come at risk, marketing  hype  notwithstanding.  Assuming that you want
the higher returns and that you want to stay within mutual funds, you will need
to very actively "manage" your investments.   NO FUND is continually the "best"
fund.  You would need to closely monitor  the assets in each fund to assess the
expected performance as well as the relative safety.   If  you  question  this,
take a look at Kiplinger magazine.  Each issue they rate the best funds over 1,
3 and 5 years and, although 1 or 2 funds stay  at  or  near  the  top for a few
months,  everything  else  floats  all over the place.  That, in our  litiguous
society, is the kind of performance that gives pension fund managers nightmares

Since prudent investors have  a  diversified portfolio, diversified in risk and
return, use the 401K as  the  long term conservative portion of your retirement
portfolio.  


re .0
   >I'm trying to figure out some of the some of the pro's and con's of 
   >closed end funds.  When a fund declares its intent to close to new 

      Often,  a  fund  is  closed  to  new  investors  due  to  its  successful
      performance.  The publicity  has  caused  so  many new investors that the
      manager is no longer able  to  meet  the  fund's stated objectives in the
      prospectus.  By closing the fund,  the  inflow of cash is more steady and
      more manageable.

   >investors, is this a good time to purchase shares, or are the share 

      Only if the fund still meets YOUR investment objectives.

   >prices likely to be inflated just prior to the fund's closing to new 
   >investors??

      No, since share prices are based on  the Net Value of the fund divided by
      the number of shares outstanding at the end of each day.

re Note 361.2
    >Actually, it's concerned me that Windsor is closed to new investors. 
    >While people harp on the perils of the fund being over-subscribed, it
    >still means that Vanguard is no longer marketing the fund.  There's a
    >great temptation for them to put the fund on auto-pilot, and just let
    >those captive 401K dollars roll in.  If I were Vanguard, I'd put my
    >talent and energy on new funds that were likely to snatch investors and
    >market share from Fidelity, not on sleepers like Windsor.

      As long as the fund meets the objectives  in  the prospectus, what is the
      problem?  "Marketing" the fund not only does not have anything to do with
      improving its worth, it actually adds to the cost of manageing.

re notes about complaining.
   Just understand that some of us are not unhappy with the selection  of funds
   int  the  plan  and  would feel compleled to offer "attaboys" to offset your
   complaints.  :-)
   
   That  said, however, I would hope our IS managers would pay attention to well
   thought out recommendations from the employees.

As always,
FWIW
Dave