Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    I don't deal with the Templeton funds. I only buy no-load funds and
    this is not one of them. As far as I can tell, they have some VERY
    HEAVY loads (at least on their stock funds anyway). There are so many
    no-load funds that have equal or better performance. I don't see any
    reason to buy into this one. Except...  
    
    BTW, is your friend a brooker or a "financial planner"?    :-)
    
    Mike

    As a matter of fact he is a "financial planner".  He has just started
    doing this nine months ago.  I thought he was biased for a reason, but
    I was just curious what people thought about the Templeton family.
    
    Thanks for the reply
    

    I thought that Templeton funds had an excellent track record? no?

RE:.3 by YAMS::SCHOTT

> I thought that Templeton funds had an excellent track record? no?

They do.  Mr Templeton has done a wonderful job of calling market moves AND
picking stocks since well before I was born.  However,  Mr Templeton is well 
over 80,  and it's not clear how much longer he will be taking an active role 
in management of his funds.  Or how well his replacement will do.


Phil

I'll second the opinion that past performance is not an accurate
guide to future performance here.

Templeton applied his "value-investing" approach on a global scale
to buy European stocks in the 50's when they were dirt cheap,  
Japanese stocks in the '70s, and U.S. stocks in the '80s.
There aren't many (if any) mutual funds that can match that long-term
record.  Of course, until the past decade, there were very few funds
that even invested internationally.

Sir John is quite a guy - a gentle and wise person.
I hope he lives to be 160, but even if he does I think he has already
turned over most of the fund management responsiblities.

Jeff

P.S. Anybody want to hazard a guess as to what region will feature
the best stock markets of the 1990s?  (I'll stick with South America)

    It may not have been stated precisely, but one point behind earlier
    replies was that the "Templeton formula" is well-known and widely
    imitated.  All the more reason past performance is no indication of
    future performance.
    
    Plus, it would be wise to hold off investing until after October, maybe
    after the election.  'Tis the season for sudden drops...
    
      John

	Didn't John Templeton recently retire and sell his fund family to
	a large brokerage house (the name escapes me)?

    Re: .7, yes Templeton Funds is (are?) merging into the Franklin Group. 
    Templeton has turned over daily operations of all his funds to his
    protoges some time ago.  Their track records remain excellent, and the
    loads have recently been reduced from the ionosphere (8.5% - 9.3%)
    down to the stratosphere (@ 5.3% if memory serves me...).  One thing to
    consider beyond the loads, Templeton fund management expenses are among
    the LOWEST in the international funds area, typically around .75% -
    .80% of assets annually.  International funds often are well over 1%. 
    This can more than offset the cost of the load for a long-term
    investor, even if Templeton fund performance regresses toward average
    in the future.  I would consider dollar cost or similar periodic
    investing into Templeton funds for international exposure worth looking
    into along with other no-load or load alternatives.  International
    investing is still an area where stock picking, market selection,
    weightings, etc. can lead to consistently better performance by some
    fund managers vs. others.  

    I was looking at a chart of how Templeton Growth performed vs.
    the S&P 500 in the 1980's.  Considering that Templeton Growth
    invests mainly in foreign markets, it's interesting that it
    has tracked the S&P 500 almost step for step throughout the 80's.
    
    As of June 30

    Templeton  13.4%  9.1%   17.7%
    S&P 500    13.4%  9.7%   18.4%
               1year  5years 10years

    While it hasn't underperformed the market, it hasn't out performed it
    either.
    
    It charges a sales load of 6.1%, down from 9.3%, and it's
    annual expense is listed as 0.96%

    My financial planner has suggested that I jump into the Templeton World
    fund. This will be my 7th Mutual fund but the first one that invests
    international. There is a 5.75 load on this and I'm wondering what the
    thoughts/comments are out there. 
    
    	Also does anyone know what % of the load the Financial planner gets
    for having his clients go into these funds??

    I just got into this one myself.  I'm not crazy about loaded funds, 
    but this one has done quite well. My father has been in it for a while 
    and has done very, very well.  I think the fund mgr spoke in Boston a 
    few months ago and those that went were very impressed.  Just ask your 
    planner what he makes!  I'd hope you have a good relationship with him.  
    (If he wont tell you, let me know, I'll ask mine!)
    
    Note real specific, but hope it helps.
    

    re: .10
    
    The 5.75% load sounds very hefty to me. I believe your "financial 
    planner" gets the whole 5.75%. Why not look for a noload fund instead?
    Janus, T. Rowe Price, 20th Century, Scuder and many others all offer
    either international noload funds or global noload funds. I believe you
    can find quite a few of them with respectable returns and track
    records. 
    
    Mike

1 to 2% of the load will go to the fund.  Your planner will probably
get a % of the remaining amount.

    Hmm, jump into the Templeton Funds when they have been sold to Franklin
    (? is that the right one) and John Templetonis getting out of them (his
    money that is).
    
    Probably not on my part.
    

	Re. .14

	> and John Templeton is getting out of them

	In fairness, it must be mentioned that he is only getting out of
	one of them, and that too temporarily, before he gets into another 
	(Templeton) one. 

>	In fairness, it must be mentioned that he is only getting out of
>	one of them, and that too temporarily, before he gets into another 
    
    Watch what they do, not what they say.
    
    I never thought I'd see the day when John Templeton would attempt to
    time the market, but that is exactly what he is doing.
    
      John

>    I never thought I'd see the day when John Templeton would attempt to
>    time the market, but that is exactly what he is doing.
    
Maybe it's his age start to catch up with him. It not only affects his body, it 
also affects his mind and his way of thinking. His record speaks for itself. 
But, the time has changed, can he still maintain his sharp mindedness?

Mike

    Gee, isn't he only in his 80's ?
    

    With all due respect to Mr. Templeton, 80's is not a young age. Some
    people don't even live to see their 80's. I am not saying he *IS* out
    of it. It's just a question.

"young" is relative:  i go camping in NH during the colder season (now) and
there is this one couple who camp each fall at this place in NH.  they have a
huge live-in sorta tent complete w/ a woodstove.  they gather wood together,
etc. and often stay until thanksgiving.

he's 93.
she's 87.

incredible if you ask me!  matter of fact, i heard they may make TV in the near
future.

    I just talked to my financial planner.  He gets 2.5% and the balance 
    goes to the fund mgr.  Still a hefty load, but the dev nations fund
    is up over 50% since Jan.  Go figure.
    
    -Brian

Scudder Latin America fund opened up the second week of January at $12.50 a
share....it's at $18.64....and I didn't have to pay any load.

/michael

.21>    goes to the fund mgr.  Still a hefty load, but the dev nations fund
.21>    is up over 50% since Jan.  Go figure.
    
    Here's what I figure:  I figure your salesman is looking at a table of
    results and picking the best-performing load fund, and pitching that
    to you.  Why isn't he offering, say, Fidelity Select Toothbrush or
    Twentieth Century Jackhammers?  Well, he _would be_ if they existed and
    did better than TDN, and gave him a commission.  The commission part 
    is very important.  Note that he can ALWAYS find a good-looking load fund
    and show you how well it's done recently.  This is worth \your/ money???
    
    Before giving this guy any money, grab this weekend's _Barron's_, it's
    going to feature their quarterly Mutual Fund Review.  If all you want
    to do is pick the fund with the best return in a given category, you
    can do that without the aid of a salesman.
    
      John

Note the article in the Oct. 11, 1993 Barron's, page 44, "Calculating Costs"
with the subtitle: "In Long Run, Load Fund Can Be Cheaper".

There a couple of interesting tables comparing fund expenses, loads and times.

    Without seeing the article, I suspect that what they are talking about
    is the total expense ratio. It's not the "load" that makes the fund
    cheaper in the long run. I guess that's the reason why alot of people
    are staying away from the Kuffman Fund.
    
    Mike

The table below was reprinted without permission from te WSJ, 11/22/93  
The Templeton Emerging Markets fund was the five year winner.


Mutual Fund Score Card/Closed-End Equity					
Investment Objective:  Primary portfolios of Equity securities; some can 
leverage; funds have fixed number of shares outstanding	

Top 15 performers based on past 12 months					

	  		    Total Return in period ending 10/31	

				One	Since	 One     Five
			       Month    12/13    Year	 Year

Turkish Investment Fund	       10.81%  106.35% 102.39%	  na
European Warrent Fund	       12.02%	88.66%	94.08%	  na
BGR Precious Metals INc		9.77%	82.85%	81.49%	62.10%
Singapore Fund			9.11%	56.52%	71.29%	  na
First Financial Fund		5.50%	46.44%	69.51% 208.83%
Templeton Emerging Markets	2.59%	61.38%	64.79% 376.70%
ASA Limited		       15.12%	63.37%	60.34%  19.07%
Emerging Markets Telecomm	7.50%	50.00%	55.09% 	  na
Brazilian Equity Fund		7.19%	50.90%	54.79%	  na
M. Stanley Emerging Mkts       10.11%	56.74%	53.80%	  na
Asia Pacific FUnd 	       19.49%	64.10%	52.28% 261.38%
Malaysia Fund			2.91%	55.93%	50.12% 193.88%
First Australia Fund	       11.91%	44.61%	49.46%	34.79%
Latin American Discovery	3.66%	33.82%	48.43%    na
Japan Equity Fund		4.61%	47.94%	47.94%	  na
					
					
Bottom 10 Performers					
					
Global Health and Science	4.03%	7.62%	3.56%	  na
Taiwan Fund			2.97%	1.58%	2.90%    2.92%
General Amer INvestors		2.97%	7.77%	1.87%  119.30%
Berstrom Capital Corp		5.60%	6.58%	1.50%  139.73%
Roc Taiwan Fund			1.29%	1.76%	1.30%	  na
India Growth Fund		1.24%	9.46%	0.97%	69.73%
H&Q Life Sciences Invtrs	5.73%	9.66%	0.22%	  na
Alliance Glb Envr		0.54%	3.52%	1.86%	  na
Jundt Growth Fund		5.85%	1.00%	5.91%	  na
Americas All Season		3.12%	8.78%	6.43%	23.05%

Source Lipper Analitical service Inc