Conference nyoss1::market_investing

	How does one handle mergers of two companies?

	As a specific example, I own Mips stock (:-(). Recently, I got a notice
	to get SGI stock in return (0.52 SGI for every 1 Mips). How do I handle
	this transaction in Quicken?

How does one handle 401K or similar.  What I do now is to enter it as a Tax
item and manualy adjust income at end of year.   Ther has to be a better way.
I am using version 4 but bought the upgrade to 5 but it will not run on my
rainbow.

	For 401K, I have created a separate investment account. When I enter
	my salary in the bank account, I use a split transaction. This 
	automatically credits the 401K account (and also the ESPP account)
	with the appropriate amounts. 

	FYI, I use Quicken 5.0 for DOS. 

    RE: -1 
    
    I'm just getting started with Quicken.  For 401K have you created a
    sperate investment account for each Save Fund you invest in?
         
    Also, on ESPP do you have an account (which type?) to hold ESPP money
    as it accumulates and another for when you actually purchase the
    shares?
    
    -john

RE:  Note 248.4 by CSSE::POTTER
>          
>     Also, on ESPP do you have an account (which type?) to hold ESPP money
>     as it accumulates and another for when you actually purchase the
>     shares?

I have a split off my paycheck which goes into a DEC STOCK budget category,
and an investment account for DEC STOCK.  At the end of the 6 month period,
when I get my statement, I 'purchase' shares (Buyx) for my investment
account, and I draw the funds from the DEC STOCK budget category.  The ESPP
report tells you everything you need to know (purchase price, total $
transaction, # of shares).

- Jim

  One way that I have found to handle this is to setup an investment account
and state that it is not a single mutual find account. This will allow a
cash balance in the account. At the end of each 6 months I then buy from the
cash balance. I use this method for both ESPP and SAVE.

  I also use the same method for DRP to keep the cash balance util I know the
actual buying price.

    re: .5, .6
    
    Don't both of these methods confuse Quicken as to your real gain/loss?
    I.e., if the stock is at 100, 15% discount = 85, and you sell a month
    later for 90, that method will show a capital gain of $5/share, but you
    want a loss of $10/share.
    
    I put the weekly withdrawal into an account, and on June 1/December 1
    I add extra cash sufficient to allow me to enter a purchase ("Buy")
    at the real market price.  The extra cash is 'Income', since that's how
    I report it to the IRS.  The purchase price then accurately reflects
    the stock price, making the gain/loss come out correctly on a sell.
    
    But... if you ever hold stock more than 18 months this won't work.

	I found the answer to my own question in .1

	All I needed to do was: ShrsOut for Mips and ShrsIn for SGI. For the
	ShrsIn transaction, I specified the cost to be that of the original
	Mips purchase. 

	This is not perfect though, since if and when I sell the SGI stock,
	the capital gain/loss would be computed based on the date of
	the ShrsIn transaction. This could make it a short term gain/loss
	even though I have held Mips for over a year.

	How are such transactions handled at tax time? How would this 
	transaction look like in Schedule C (?) ?

Re: .8
Cann't you force the ShrsIn date to be the same as the Mips purchase
date.  Then you add a note stating what and whenactually happened for your
own personal records.

\Bill

re .8:
>	How are such transactions handled at tax time? How would this 
>	transaction look like in Schedule C (?) ?

Schedule D.  I believe the way I've handled it is to use the purchase date
and price of the original stock and include an attachment or footnote
explaining what was going on.  So you'll list N shares of SGI, but use
the purchase date and price of the MIPS stock.

Thanks for the comments on how to handle the 401 but I had figured most of that
out.  What I still havent figured out is to decrease the taxable salary.  The
way that I am doing it the 401K still shows us as Salary and I can do the  math
but would rather that Quicken be able to handle it for me..

Thanks, Al

RE:  Note 248.7 by STAR::BOUCHARD "The enemy is wise"
     I use 'pseudo-income'

>     I put the weekly withdrawal into an account, and on June 1/December 1
>     I add extra cash sufficient to allow me to enter a purchase ("Buy")
>     at the real market price.  The extra cash is 'Income', since that's how
>     I report it to the IRS.

There is a bug in this method also - you receive the extra 'income' at the
time you SELL the shares of stock, not when you buy them.  For example, I
receive 20 shares on 12/1/91.  On 4/1/92, I sell them.  The extra money
needed to buy the stock on 12/1/91 is 20*(FMV-purchase price), and is
reported by DEC as 1992 income, not 1991 income.  At least that's the way
the IRS sees it.

- Jim

    re: .12
    
    Nope, you're right.  I just find it easier to ignore Quicken's "Income"
    numbers than its "Capital Gain" numbers...
    

    
    
    	Just received my Quiken update letter in the mail for the 2.0
    version of windows as well as the 6.0 version of DOS. Both look very
    hot, and are functionally equivalent. You can now download stock quotes
    from prodigy directly into quicken. I think I read that they also
    provide some macro's to do it automatically. They also are going to
    have graphical output in the reports section. It looks awesome!
    
    
    	Release date is October 22nd......
    John
    

   Quicken V6 is already available in software stores. I picked up a copy
last week. Cost will be around $35 to $40 and there is a $10 rebate coupon
enclosed.

   There biggest change was the graphing. This allows you to graph assets,
liabilities, expenses, investments, and stock prices. Some are in the form of
pie charts and others as bar/line charts over time.

   The have also added auto-fill for quick entries in the register. This feature
can be disabled.

I just started using Quicken.  Among the many things that confuses me is 
how best do I keep track of my SAVE account values from month to month?

For example,
 
   Should Funds A, B, C, etc be assigned separate accounts, or can they
   all be integrated into one account?  (If so, what kind?)

   Fund A is always a $1 a share, it's the quantity that changes.  What's
   the best way to set this up in Quicken?

Tnx

    If you want to track the performance of all of the funds, then for
    funds A and B, you can use a BANK or MUTUAL FUND. For the other funds,
    you would want to use a MUTUAL FUND account.
    
    I use an asset account for the whole thing and do not track the
    individual funds.
    
    michael

I setup a regular "Investment Account" called 401K. 
Fund A, B , C etc... are setup as securities held in the 401K account. 
I have Fund A setup as security type Money Market an Fund D as security type 
Mutual Fund. Seems to work well and the investment reports produce 
understandable information when setup this way.

       <<< Note 248.18 by SFC01::SFC01::SMITHP "Written but not read" >>>
       -< I have them as securities within a regular Investment Account >-

>I setup a regular "Investment Account" called 401K. 
>Fund A, B , C etc... are setup as securities held in the 401K account. 
>I have Fund A setup as security type Money Market an Fund D as security type 
>Mutual Fund. Seems to work well and the investment reports produce 
>understandable information when setup this way.

As Fund A (shrs always equal $1) fluctuates, do you "Add/Remove Shares"?

    re: ROI using Quicken.
    
    I've noticed when using the graphs that Xin,etc seem as though they're
    being treated as appreciation of assets as oppposed to being
    "transferred in". For instance, I'm looking at Investment Graphs for
    securities and my Fidelity account. I sell say $5k worth of stock
    from my "Stocks" account and transfer the money into my Fidelity
    money market mutal fund. Quicken thinks that my mutual fund has
    "appreciated" by 5k this past month so my annual rate of return is
    phenominal. Assuming 5k per month growth, of course. Now all I need
    to do is find 5k per month to Xin and I'm all set. 
    Have any of you folks found a workaround ? I do like the charts
    otherwise, but now I've just 'corrupted' any useful info it will
    give me for the rest of the year. 
    I know this question should go into DIGITAL_INVESTING, but while I'm
    here, How do you handle ESPP ? I find the same problem there. Let's say
    my DEC stock was worth 5000, now at the 6 month period I buy $4k worth.
    All of a sudden, the account has gone from $5k to $9k and my annual
    rate of return is in the stratosphere. At this rate , I be retiring
    in 2 years. If only I COULD get it to compound 80% monthly ...
    
     

    re: -1
    
    Maybe you should use "BuyX" instead? 

	How do you handle selling of covered call options?

	I have treated them as Misc. Income (and if bought back as Misc. 
	Expenses), but that does will make it not show up on investment
	transactions summary. 

	If I treat them as something sold then I get a complaint about 
	a short sale. 

    
    Selling a covered call *is* making a short sale, for all practical
    purposes -- so I'd just enter it as such.

    still need help re .20
    and also ...
    
    When mutuals declare a dividend the price drop looks to quicken like drop in
    price so it results in a negative return being reported.
    
    Assume you purchased 100 shares at $39.00 ...
    
    For example,Fidelity Value fund went exdiv ~ $3.00 a share a few weeks ago. 
    So if you had 100 shares at 41.00 and went exdiv 3.00 , quicken thinks
    you 'lost' $300. Do an 'update price' and your return for the month is
     -$300 . Value before: $4100 value now :$4100 but div  purchase of $300
    means $4400 invested : value = $4100 : loss =$300. For the month = loss. 
    I understand that, in the long run,for tax purposes, this is right: but 
    not for the month. But I can't believe others haven't noticed this. 
    I'm assuming that I must have something set up wrong , but what ???
    It corrupts all previously correct info also. What I bought at 39 
    now has a loss so my total return on fund is a loss instead of a gain.

    Or have others just ignored it knowing it was incorrect?

    Thanks for any pointers.
                                                                          
    Bob
    

    I don't recall that problem; be sure to use  "Reinvested Dividend"
    when you enter the transaction.  Comes out OK for me.

    Hello,
    
    I saw a commercial last nite for Quicken.  It showed a screen like a
    page from a checkbook, and said you could have a budget developed.  It
    showed bar graphs showing where most of your expenses were going.
    My questions are: 1)Can you set up various accounts within your
    checking account, for say food, mortgage, gas payment, cable payment,
    telephone bill, etc., and 2)Can I also make it so that it will divide
    my deposits into various accounts automatically.  Say I deposit $500 a
    week and want $100 to go to food, $200 to mortgage, $50 to four other
    accounts.  If I enter a deposit of $500 will it automatically do this,
    and I can display my checking account, and it will show up to date
    figures for each account??  If not, is there other budget balancing
    software I should get?
    
    Thanks,
    
    /Dave

    re: -1
    
    You could set up accounts to do this, and then use memorized split
    transactions to do what you want. But QUICKEN has a category mechanism
    that handles this in a simpler manner.
    
    What you can do is go to a software store that has a return policy that
    if you aren't happy with something you purchase, you can return it in
    30 days. Then try it out and see how you like it. I don't know where
    you are located, but in the Nashua, NH area, there are two places in
    the Pheasant Lane Mall that allow you to do this.
    
    michael

    Thanks for the reply Michael.  It sounds like Quicken will do what I
    want.  I think I'll give it a try.
    
    Thanks,
    
    /Dave

    I played around with a "special edition" of QFW2.0 that came pre-loaded
    on a pc that one of my friends bought. It somehow doesn't seem
    complete. For example, I did the Budget part, then later realized that
    I could edit the classes. So I deleted some classes and added some
    sub-clases. But I when bring up the Budget screen, all the original
    classes that I deleted were still there (also, the sketchy manual that
    came with the SE has no topic on budgeting). Can anyone tell if this is
    a stripped down version ? Should I really be looking at the real thing
    to get a feel for its functionality ? Thanks for any replies.
    
    reg
    
    Raja
    

    re: -1
    
    The Windows version of QUICKEN lagged behind the DOS version for a
    while. I think that it caught up in version 3.0 of Windows which I
    believe linese up with Version 6 of DOS.
    
    So I guess I wouldn't run anything under 3.0 for Windows.
    
    michael

    
    I saw the same commercial that someone mentioned a few replies back.
    It, apparently, is a "trial" version for only $8.  Perhaps this is the
    version that your friend got?
    
    For $8, as oppposed to the normal selling price of $30-40, any special
    edition or trial software has probably been lobotomized.
    
    /bh

    I've just started using Quicken and am in the process of setting up all
    my accounts. I've got a couple of questions that I thought someone in
    here might be able to answer.  
    
    Is there a way to get Quicken to adjust my account for a stock split? 
    I put in the split per the instructions, and the shares have been added
    to my account in one lump sum. So does that mean when I go to sell some
    of these that I have to make all the split adjustments in the cost
    basis myself?  I'd like a way for Quicken to take the extra shares and
    sort of allocate them across the previous shares so that my basis is
    accurately reflected in those shares.  Any ideas? Right now, I'm still
    keeping duplicate records on Excel, so I can keep doing that, but is
    doesn't seem optimal.
    
    And after reading all these notes, I'm still not sure of the best way
    to handle buying stock at a discount. An example of this is the ESPP
    purchase, but I'm also in a couple of dividend reinvestment programs
    where I can buy more shares at a discount from the FMV.  I'd considered
    putting in the difference as an unrealized gain, but that doesn't seem
    to be the correct way to do it. Or I can just use the FMV as my cost
    basis and somehow put in the delta between the actual price and the FMV
    to be reported as ordinary income, but that shouldn't be reported til I
    sell the shares. I considered calling Quicken to ask how they suggest
    it be done, but I thought I'd look for more suggestions here.
    
    Thanks,
    Cathy

Hi,

[I asked this in the Quicken topic in the IBMPC-94 notesfile, but no repsoneses
yet...]

I'm having trouble tracking a stock that has spun-off subsidiaries.

The Quicken help says to do the following for a spin-off.

	1 - in the parent account, enter a RtnCap transaction.  This
	  will add cash to the cah balance of the account 
	  (amount added = value of spin-off stock)
	
	2 - then issue a Buy of the subsidiary security (in the parent 
	  account).  This will return the cash value back to zero.

	3 - adjust the price of the new security.

----

I tried it... ya so!  I have two new transactions that cancel each other out.
And the cost basis of the parent is unchanged.

So I changed the Buy in step 2) to a BuyX (transferring to the new
subsidiary account).  OK, a little better...

But the cost basis of the parent company is still unchanged.  And the
new spin-off account has a cost basis of the transfer amount...  I am expecting 
the cost basis of the parent account to be reduced by the amount of the 
new spin-off...(that's what the help said needs to be done - and makes sense
to me.)

So tried something else.  I tried doing a BuyX in the new account.  Quicken 
placed a Xout (cash-out) transaction in the parent company.  But still no 
change to the cost basis.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,
Dan

    My question has to do with updating prices on mutual funds.
    I've had some funds for years and weekly I update the prices for my
    mutual funds in Quicken. 
    
    My problem is that I've been in cash for a while and now that
    distribution time is here, the price of the fund goes down while I 
    receive no dividend - so it LOOKS like the price of the fund drops
    quite a bit.
    
    How do I get around this ?
    
    P.S. Of course the reason I'm doing this at all is to track the funds.
    So, other than historical info there is no real purpose.
    It's not a major problem - just an annoyance.

I don't have an answer - just a question about how you're using Quicken...

>    My problem is that I've been in cash for a while and now that
>    distribution time is here, the price of the fund goes down while I 
>    receive no dividend - so it LOOKS like the price of the fund drops
>    quite a bit.

So, you've sold shares of the fund, and you're keeping the cash proceeds
in the cash balance of the [quicken-tracked] fund... right?  You have 0
shares of the fund (it's all in cash balance)?  

The fund price has indeed dropped in price...right?  But the cash balance of
your account is unchanged, right?  I guess I don't understand what you mean
by "it LOOKS like the price of the fund drops quite a bit".  Where is
quicken saying this?

Dan

    re .35 :
    
    Dan,
    
    As an example of what I mean -
    
    On 12/2 the price of the Fidelity Value was say $44.00 and it has a
    $2.50 distribution of cap gain and interest income . So on Saturday the
    price of the fund is $2.50 less than it was on Friday. If I owned the
    fund and had $100 in it on Friday - I still have $100 on Saturday. 
    But if I only record the price of the fund , it looks as though it 
    lost $2.50 on Friday. So when I chart it, months from now (without
    including any dividend activity), it will look as though the total 
    return of the fund was negative.
    
    It may sound confusing, but my point is that if it hadn't paid a
    cap gain distribution the price I would be recording on 12/3 is 
    $44.00  - NOT $41.50. 
    
    

Ah, I see what you mean.  

I'm new to Quicken, and I'm finding many small 'nits'.  (But Q is still
better than the other packages I tried out...)

Dan

right now, quicken is offering a $10 off mail-in rebate, so, i'm thinking of
getting it to get me outta the pen&paper method of burgetting/investing.

my question is: will quicken for WINDOWS run w/o a problem on Windows NT ?
i can get quicken for DOS or WINDOWS.  prefer windows, but, want it to be
able to run on NT.

thanks,
jc

>my question is: will quicken for WINDOWS run w/o a problem on Windows NT ?

You might have better luck asking this in NOTED::IBMPC-95 (topic 530)  (Or 
maybe it's already covered in there...?)

Dan

    Quicken for windows runs on Windows NT. Version 3 ran under emulation
    on Alpha, version 4 requires an Intel machine (>=386 app). But version
    4 runs on Windown NT Intel...
    
    Wim

Question about tracking Digital's 401(k) in Quicken.

I just started to track my SAVE plan in Quicken 6 for Mac.  I have set up a
portfolio account, which contains an account "Digital SAVE", which contains
5 securities that I invest in.  I have entered transaction data starting
3/31/95, when we switched over to the new funds.  I have it so the "total
cost" and "market value" exactly match what I have put into the funds
versus how much they are worth.  So far so good.

I just realized that I have a new dilemma.  Now that Digital is matching a
certain portion of my own contributions, how can I add shares each week,
but somehow separate my contributions from DEC's contributions, so that the
"total cost" only increases based on *my* contributions, and the gain/loss
looks better?

Am I correct in assuming that in money-speak, "total cost" only includes
*my* contributions to the plan, not Digital's?

I have read other notes by people who enter payrolls into quicken, which
create new transactions that place certain percentages into each fund each
week.  That sounds great, but it doesn't solve the above dilemma.

thanks,

adam

I think you'd want the cost basis to include Digital's
contribution, otherwise you'd be artifically inflating the total
return. 

I suppose you could set up another account that tracks Digital's
contributions separate from yours, and split the distributions
between the two accounts, but why would you want to put yourself
through that kind of pain? 

What I'm trying to figure out is how to enter the contribution 
without having it show up as income.  The documentation tells me 
how, I just haven't completely figured it out.

Wes

re:               <<< Note 248.42 by NLA0::ONO "The Wrong Stuff" >>>

>I think you'd want the cost basis to include Digital's
>contribution, otherwise you'd be artifically inflating the total
>return. 

I guess this is a matter of opinion, but the way I see it, if I didn't
contribute to it out of my pocket, it's not "my cost".  It's free money, so
why not have it contribute totally to P/L?  Then again, I see your point
that DEC's match would show up as pure profit, which isn't necessarily
wrong, but the portfolio window would not show the true returns of the
funds themselves, but rather, my SAVE portfolio as a whole.

>I suppose you could set up another account that tracks Digital's
>contributions separate from yours, and split the distributions
>between the two accounts, but why would you want to put yourself
>through that kind of pain? 

I agree :-)

>What I'm trying to figure out is how to enter the contribution 
>without having it show up as income.  The documentation tells me 
>how, I just haven't completely figured it out.

I think what you're saying here is that since Quicken only considers
dividends and interest as income, if I categorized DEC's match as such, it
would show up as income.  I definitely don't want that.  Only SAVE fund
dividends should show up as income.

Any other suggestions?

thanks,

adam

    re: last few
    
    This is how I handle it, FWIW.  For each paystub entry, I include a
    separate split line for 401k match income.  I assign this to a separate
    category, that is marked as non-tax-related.  Then I have another split
    line that is a transfer to my 401K portfolio account.  The (negative)
    amount on this line is the sum of my 401k contribution and Digital's
    401k matching contribution.  So, if I bring up a pie chart of income,
    I end up with a little wedge marked 401k contribution, while 97%+ of
    the pie is marked 'salary'.
    
    I didn't want to consider the matching funds as part of the growth
    percentage of the funds, as that makes it difficult to compare the
    return rate with other investments.  The matching 401K contribution
    really is income, its just not taxable income.
    
    	Steve

    I've blanked out about tax treatment of 401K funds when they
    are taken out after retirement (assuming it's done according
    to regulations) -- is the Dec matching part taxable then?
    Are any gains it's made?
    

    I've just been trying to use the "Graphs" option in Quicken.
    I want a breakdown of all my investments as a %-age of all I have.
    For example,
    
    If 10,000 total:
    $9000   money market
      500   Fidelity Fund
      500   Magellan
    
    The graph shows 50 % Fidelity, 50 % Magellan instead of 5% Fid, 5%
    Magellan, 90 % cash.  I would like it to show  5, 5, 90 but since CASH
    doesn't "appear" in Graphs, Reports , is there a way to do it within
    Quicken ?   

Does Quicken allow one to import data from spreadsheets (Excel, Lotus etc.) or 
Manage Your Money?

I have been using MYM for couple of years and would like to consider going
over to Quicken.

Ken

    There's an interchange format for transferring data between all 
    these checkbook programs.  I think it's called "Quicken Interchange 
    Format" or something like that.  Many of the financial programs can 
    write and read this format.  If you poke around the menus and/or 
    help screens in MYM, you might run across an export feature.  Check 
    out which formats it exports to and post them here.  Many of us have 
    Quicken and can verify that Quicken can read what gets exported.  
    If the name of the interchange format has the word "Quicken" in it, 
    you can feel pretty safe that Quicken will import it!  ;^)
    
    The only warning is that it is possible you'd lose some MYM-specific
    info.  I don't know... but the basic transaction info should be intact.

I have quicken 5 for windows and I would like to enter the historical
prices [open, high, low, close] and volume using a file rather than
manually. The quicken documentation only lists a file format that includes
symbol, date, and price even though the portfolio price update feature
gets all the information I want [for only the current quote!] and my 
Windows on WallStreet update option will update the current quote with
that information as well.

Any ideas or solutions? Has anyone wanted to do this before? I'd like my
quicken graphs to reflect some semblance of reality for the securities in
my portfolio...

	Thanks,
		-Stephanie