Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    
    Interesting, but too bad they didn't include a risk factor in their
    more aggresive and volatile recommendations.  If it were just a simple
    matter of going to the higher yielding investments, everyone would do
    it.
    
    I'd take a little exception to the CDs being always a bad investment.
    I have a few still returning 10%, protected by FSLIC, and guaranteed to
    crank out 10% for another 5 years or so.
    
    	Dave

Re: .0

>    Steps in financial planning:
>    	1) commit to long-term goals
>    	2) invest according to age
>    	3) use a financial planner
>    	4) save regularly

WRT 3), I would only recommend to whoever has more than 1/4 million and has doing
their homework for a while. Actually, they really need a reputable money mgr.

For those of poor soul ripped off by their stock broker in newpapers claim,
it won't happen at all if they are willing to invest 1-2 days studying what's 
"Financial" is all about.

I read a book "All lie of your stock broker", very entertaining...

Michael

RE:.0 by DPDMAI::RESENDE "Pick up the pieces & build a winner!"

> I (Savings = FEAR)

    	Money market mutual funds 
    	CDs 
    
    	Benefits:  Security of principal (CASH)
    	Anticipated total return:  0% after inflation and taxes
    
>    II (Investments,  low risk)

	Bond funds of all types.
	Utility stocks and Utility stock mutual funds
	
    	Benefits:  INCOME
    	Anticipated total return:  2% 3% after inflation and taxes
    
>   III (Investments,  risk)

	Equity mutual funds 
	Stocks bought directly
	Real estate (bad news some places right now,  but future= ??)
	Small business
    	Gold and silver (not to exceed 5% to 10% of total investment)

    	Benefits:  GROWTH
    	Anticipated total return:  5% to 7% after inflation and taxes
    
>    IV (Investments = GREED)

    	Leveraged real estate (bad news right now,  but future= ??)
    	Speculative mutual funds (??)
	Gold or silver exceeding 10% of total investment
    	Oil and gas drilling,  assorted limited partnerships,  assorted
	futures funds and options funds,  etc etc.
    
    	Benefits:  (HIGH RISK)
    
    	Anticipated total return:     -100% to +1000% after inflation and taxes
    ---------------------------------------
> Always invest tax-deferred -- don't pay government.  Pension plans,
> 401Ks, profit sharing.

and IRAs.  Also,  paying taxes on capital gains is much better than not having
capital gains to tax...  

    ---------------------------------------
>    Never put investments in a child's name - UGMA will result in a loss of
>    control over the funds.  You MUST give funds to child at age 18.

Put enough investments in a child's name to use the child's $550 with 
NO TAXES deduction from investments,  and perhaps more.

    ---------------------------------------

>    Don't use Series E bonds (6%) -- use growth mutual funds.

Series E bonds are great right now.  They pay a higher return than 3 months
to 1 year CDs or a MMMF,  they are tax deferred,  and they have a speculative 
kicker:  the interest rate CAN'T GO DOWN,  but can go up.  Of course,  this
is CASH or INCOME with little risk,  not a mutual fund with a higher expected
return and a much higher risk.


    ---------------------------------------
>    Steps in financial planning:
>    	1) commit to long-term goals

Yes.


>     	2) invest according to age

Yes,  but I disagree with his chart.


>     	3) use a financial planner

Ha Ha.


>    	4) save regularly

Yes.


>    ---------------------------------------
>    Financial security = liquidity.

Then WHY DOES HE PUSH ANNUITIES?  They are not very liquid.  An IRA can be
moved from one company to another without paying taxes.  An annuity can not.


    ---------------------------------------
>     Growth mutual funds are consistently better.

Uh,  did he have a straight face when he said this?  I guess perhaps the
bull market is over.


Phil

    Re .3
    
    I'm not too enthusiastic about annuities myself, having done some
    research into them. But it's not true that they are "illiquid".
    You may transfer tax-free (after taking a surrender charge hit,
    usually) from one annuity plan to another. The IRS calls this
    a "like-kind exchange" if I remember right. If you're sitting on
    an annuity right now that you're very unhappy with, it may make
    sense to take your hit now and move it over to another one that
    you like. There are many being offered these days with absolutely
    no surrender charges.
    
    I am yet to see a single annuity plan that would match the 
    cost-effectiveness of an IRA. The best one I've seen so far 
    (from Scudder & Charter National Insurance) is still too expensive 
    by my standards. The supposed advantage of "no annual contribution limit" 
    is usually irrelevant to those who have a 401(k) option as well. 
    
    Re. frequent references to the current "bull market" in 
    "aggressive growth" funds by these planners, yes it does 
    strike me as yet another of those serious warning signs.. ;-)
    
    - Ganesh.
       

   It sounds like the presenter tried to make a case for "avoid taxes no
matter how much it costs you".  Although I agree that it is better to get 
a 10% return tax free than a 10% taxable return,  these people usually 
recomend a 5% tax free return over a 10% taxable return.  I reallity you
would make more money on the taxable investment.

   After your presenter convinced you for several hours that tax defered is 
the way to go, he presented the product that he is selling: ANUITIES.  He of
course called these the "darling of investments" because that is the product 
that he brought you there to buy.  Run from this guy.

Brian Hibbert

P.S. I have been called cynical in this conference before, but it's because
I have seen too many ways to separate people from their money.  Be very
carefull when anyone offers you "FREE" advise about money, and then tries to 
sell you something.

RE:.4 by SUBSYS::GANESH "Ganesh"

> I'm not too enthusiastic about annuities myself, having done some research 
> into them. But it's not true that they are "illiquid".  You may transfer 
> tax-free (after taking a surrender charge hit,  usually) from one annuity 
> plan to another. 

Today's Wall Street Journal describes annuities as being illiquid,  and 
mentions taxes and surrender charges as the reasons.  I don't happen to
own any,  see below for why.

Order of tax sheltered investments in my opinion:

	Income					Equity
Best	===========================		========================
	Deductable IRA's			Deductable IRA's
	401K's					Nondeductable IRA's
	Nondeductable IRA's			401K's (less choice)
	Savings bonds for education		Stocks owned outright
	Fixed Annuities				Variable Annuities
Worst


Phil

    Workshop on mutual funds:
    
    TIME:   7:30pm
    DATE:   Tuesday, March 24th
    LOC:    Clarion Somerset Hotel
            2 Somerset Pkwy, Nashua, NH
    
    Given by Lionel Pinard, Certified Financial Planner, call 603-880-7301
    for reservations.  (no cost or obligation. no specific products will be
    mentioned)