Conference nyoss1::market_investing

    	If there was a "best way" or even a consistently "good" way
    	to make ALOT (how much is ALOT, and how fast do you want to
    	make it?) then everyone would be doing it.
    
    	Here are some ideas:
    
    
    	Hit the lottery.
    
    	Rob a bank.
    
    	Loan shark.
    
    	Star in a blockbuster movie.
    
    	Get REAL good at baseball or basketball.
    
    	Deal in drugs.
    
    	:^)
    
    
    
    
    	How much are you looking to make?

    
    	Re: .1
    
    	Nah, forget robbing a bank.  (Unless, like anything, you're
    really good at it. :-)  I heard a few days ago on a talkshow that
    robbing banks is suprisingly one of the worst crimes in terms of
    "reward" versus risk.  The average take is measured only in the
    hundreds of dollars and yet there is a 50+% chance of getting caught
    and spending a lot of time in jail.
    
    	I'd agree with the suggestion about being a great baseball or
    basketball player.  Sheeze, it seems that rarely a week goes by without
    the sports reporters announcing that yet some other baseball /
    basketball / football / hockey player is going to get $4,000,000.00
    *a year* for the next 3/4/5 years of playing a game.  (At least they
    don't try to dignify it beyond calling it "playing a game".)  Oh yeah,
    and then they have the audicity to charge $10 or $15 to get an autograph
    as if they need the extra cash to pay for lunch...
    
    	Sorry that I've digressed from this notesfile, but the sports
    salaries get me really upset when I come back to reality and think in
    numbers the size of what's in my checkbook.  Aaaarrrrgggg.  But getting
    back to the base noter's question:
    
    	Re: .0
    
    	How to make a lot of money?  I don't favor "get rich quick" schemes
    since they usually end up being a "get poor quick" scheme.  I do favor
    "get rich slowly" schemes.  And yes, even "get rich slowly and boring"
    schemes.  Simple things do work:  Live a lifestyle _under_ what you
    can afford to live so that you can save a decent percentage of your
    income.  Keep the debt levels down (or non-existant) so that the
    out-going interest flow isn't working against you.  Get your savings
    rate up so the in-coming interest flow is helping you.  Think twice
    before buying things that are blatant luxuries that you probably won't
    appreciate even 2 months from now.  If you have to buy something like
    an appliance, spend the extra money to buy higher-quality things that
    will last a lot longer.  If you have kids and are facing eventual college
    bills, you can't start saving too early.  Ditto for retirement.  "A penny
    saved is a penny earned" is an old saying, but it is a wise one -- treat
    money that you could decide _not_ to spend on an equal footing with money
    returned from investments when you decide how to allocate your financial
    thinking time.  (Unless you already have a good-sized pile of saved
    money, your greatest long-term financial return might come from trimming
    your budget (post-tax dollars, incidently) instead of worrying about
    getting another 3% or 5% (taxable, most of the time) on your investments
    this year.)
    
    	In short, do today what is right for 5 or 10 or 20 years from now
    instead of just living for today.  Its boring; its plodding; its like
    being the turtle in the race against the hare, but it works.  And,
    suprisingly, its not a life of giving things up all the time.  The reason?
    Since 5 years from now will arrive, all those "do what's right for 5
    years from now" decisions start to pay off well and both your savings
    rate _and_ disposible income amounts can really climb.  And, of course,
    it lets you sleep at night better than continually trying various "get
    rich quick" schemes.
    
    	Now if you have a good idea that will sustain starting a business,
    go for it.  But from what I understand, most successful small business
    owners succeed when their hearts are in the business, and not when they
    are in the business just for the money.
    
    	Ok, enough of my ramblings...
    
    	       							-craig

    I'd go for option #3 - start your own business.
    
    Statistics show that 80% of small businesses fail within 5 years so
    you need to take care about what business to start. Ideally you want
    to start it part-time so that you can keep your fulltime day job up
    to the point where income from your own business at least equals your
    job-salary. Then you can make some serious life choices.
    
    Study the works of successful people with a proven track record in
    business, that is to say DO NOT take advice from FAILURES. Read the
    biographies of Andrew Carnegie/John-Paul Getty/Richard Branson etc.
    They tell you there are only six basic principles for success :-
    
    	1. Work for yourself.
    	2. Have a product or service that fills a real need.
    	3. Give 100% money back guarantee.
    	4. High emphasis on customer satisfaction.
    	5. Have a "pay for performance" reward scheme.
    	6. Help other people.
    
    In fact, I have found that rule #6 is the most important. You will
    only become truly succesful in life when you help enough other people
    achieve that they want. As the previous noter said, this is when the
    business "gets into your heart" and you are "giving" rather than 
    "taking" from your community.
    
    I'm describing "Network Marketing". I'm looking to retire from my full
    time job in 2-5 years having achieved financial independence and time
    freedom. By the way my concept of retiring is not to sit and watch the
    goldfish die; I have ideas to travel the world, help my charities and
    church, be there to see my kids grow up (fulltime parent mode), help out
    my aged parents, buy a Ferrari, holiday in Hawaii, live on the Thames,
    to mention but a few. My salary today doesn't allow such things.
    
    I also need to agree with another previous noter - there is no such thing
    as a get rich quick scheme. You do need to put the work in over a
    period of time. The trick is to latch onto a business concept that is 
    legal, ethical with a proven successful history.
    
    GO FOR IT !
    
    Ian
    
    

	"Every fortune is based on a crime."

		                                 Balzak

    
    
    
    You could search the world over and find numerous books, reports,
    studies, volume upon volume of data and find that it all comes down to
    one simple pharse                                    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                            THERE AIN'T NO FREE LUNCH
    
    
    
    

    Re .0
    
    Put your life savings in gold, energy stocks and 
    defense stocks. All of these seem like total dogs 
    right now.
    
    And wait patiently for the next round of world calamities,
    political turmoil, oil shocks and major disasters in the
    financial system.
    
    You probably won't have to wait too long.
    
    Ganesh.
    
    P.S. As I do not particularly desire a *lot* of money
    I have not done the above ;-)
                                      

    Microsoft call options

    
    1.  Start some kind of legit business on the side.  Register it at your
        town/city hall, get a state tax id (if your business is in a state
        that has a sales tax and your product or service is taxable).  Run
        the business in a way in which you make a slight profit every few
        years.  Use your _paper_ losses to reduce your taxable income.
        (Do this on your own, not a 'network marketing' business)
    
    2.  Keep your DEC job, too.  It offers steady pay and decent bennies.
    
    3.  Pay off all debt.  If you can't pay cash for it, don't buy it.
          (exept in emergencies like a broken washing machine, etc)
    
    4.  Do whatever you can to reduce your monthly expenses:  
          Drive an old car (lower insurance, excise taxes and no monthly
                            payments)
          Use coupons and buy items on sale (only items you would buy 
            anyway.  Buy in bulk when the price is right.
          Learn to maintain and repair your car and things around the
            house.
          If you can save $50/month doing stuff like this, it is like
            making $75 more per month.
        
    5.  Put whatever you save into safe investments.  Don't expose your
          money to risk.  It takes a while to make $1000, and I'd rather
          preserve the $1000 than risk it.  (CD, Treasuries, Money Market
          Accounts.. even though inflation and taxes eat into it.)
    
    Thats a start.
    
    Vin

>    What is the best ways to make a lot of money.
    
 
      --> Be born to, or get adopted by, wealthy parents.
      
      Of  course,  this and all other methods are only worthwhile if you
      have the brains not to P--s it all away --  which,  some  say,  is
      much more difficult that acquiring it to begin with.

    
    
    Why not invest 500 dollars on a "CALL OPTION" on Microsoft and 500
    dollars in a "PUT OPTION" on some company stock that continue to go 
    down in value....
    
    

    	Because the market on both will turn around the day you do that.

	> Be born to, or get adopted by, wealthy parents.

	I used to think this way and many of those I know think this
	way.  I saw an interesting statistic on this (can't remember
	the source) and found that a small percentage (i.e. ~2%)
	started wealthy (i.e. by wealthy parents).

	>  Pay off all debt.  If you can't pay cash for it, don't buy it.

	I would like to qualify this by saying that you should pay off
	debt that is not "advantageous".  If I borrowed money for 10%
	and used it for an investments that yield 30% for example, I
	would not pay that loan off too quickly.  As an extreme, if I
	could borrow money at 0% interest with low monthly payments, I'd
	borrow like crazy and accumulate lots of debt and invest the
	cash.

	But for those of us who don't like a lot of debt, the above
	is good advice!
	

        >  Use coupons and buy items on sale (only items you would buy
        >    anyway.  Buy in bulk when the price is right.
        >  Learn to maintain and repair your car and things around the
        >    house.
        >  If you can save $50/month doing stuff like this, it is like
        >    making $75 more per month.

	This is a wonderful way to save money.  But, after a while, this
	becomes a waste of money.  For example, if I were making $5/hour,
	spending an hour to cut coupons to save me $20 would be great.
	However, if I were making $200/hour, spending the same amount
	would be like losing ~$195.  My point is that the time it takes
	to do something can be valued and thus compared with something else.

	
	> Put whatever you save into safe investments.  Don't expose your
        >  money to risk.  It takes a while to make $1000, and I'd rather
        >  preserve the $1000 than risk it.  (CD, Treasuries, Money Market
        >  Accounts.. even though inflation and taxes eat into it.)

	I heard it said before, "No one ever got rich from CDs".  I
	believe this.  

	> Microsoft call options

	Interesting.


	> THERE AIN'T NO FREE LUNCH

	Agreed.

	> Every fortune is based on a crime.

	Totally false.

	My solution:

	Personally, if you want to make a lot of money, the first thing
	you need to do is ask yourself the question posed in the base
	note.  Once you really start to think about the answer, you will
	eventually come up with ways to find the answer, and then even-
	tually, you'll find the answer -- sorry to be so simplistic.


	Dennis

    There are more factors to just making money.  I look at my
    wealthbuilding plan as a combination of three sub-plans:
    
    	1. a plan for saving and investing 
    		(DEC stock, DCA mutual funds, kids college accounts, etc.)
    
    	2. a plan to manage my expenses
    		(coupons, household budget, minimize non-deductable 
    		 interest paid, control "free-flowing" cash, 
    		 reduce or eliminate useless insurance, etc.)
    
    	3. a plan to reduce the amount of taxes paid
    		(DEC 401K, IRAs, small business in the home, etc.)
    
    If you establish activites that work in all of these areas, I think
    you would be surprised how signifincantly your "Net Worth" grows.
    
    FWIW,
    	John	

    Re .13
    
    I would be a bit cautious about your (3) i.e. doing things
    to "cut taxes". In fact, these days, warning bells start
    ringing in my ears when people mention things I ought to 
    invest in, or spend on, in order to "save on the taxes".
    
    Consider some of the recent fiascos in REITs, the ongoing decline
    in residential real-estate values,  failure of several GICs 
    in tax-deferred 401k's and annuities pushed by insurance companies 
    that went under, the rising rate of municipal bond defaults,
    - well, you get the drift.
    
    My point is, this "tax break" thing seems to cloud 
    one's judgement.
    
    Ganesh.  

    There are many more ways to reduce your tax libilities than investing
    into risky ventures.  Taking advantage of what DEC provides is
    a very good, and safe start.  Such as SAVE 401K, Health Care Reimb Acnt,
    and Dependent Care Reimb Acnt.  These last two require some careful
    budgeting but you can save a significant amount of taxes with taking
    time to plan.
    
    I have found it personally rewarding to learn more about my tax profile
    and to learn of ways to legally reduce my tax libilities.  Individuals
    might find a good Tax Accountant helpful to establish their own
    personal tax strategies.  Taxes are the single biggest expense in our
    lifetime...so I think it is worth taking a look at reducing it.  
    
    It seems most of the people I come in contact with worry mostly about
    how much liquid cash/savings they have...sighting 401K/IRA will take
    away that money.  I was the same way.  But now I look at my "total net
    worth" instead of what is in my pocket.  My "net worth" is what I want
    to see significantly grow from year to year.  
    
    [ I know, its easier said that done! ;^) ]

     "You won't get rich on a salary" is a saying I've heard.

     You won't get rich without taking risks.  The bigger the risk, the 
bigger the reward.  Anybody who's made a lot of money has also taken a big 
risk. 

     Because the risks involved in breaking the law are higher, so are the 
rewards, whether it be in bootlegging, robbing banks, protection, or
dealing cocaine.

     
    re: -.2    >> Health Care Reimb Acnt, and Dependent Care Reimb Acnt
    
    Can you expand on this?  In what circumstances can you save money by
    establishing these accounts, and what is involved in 'running' them?
    
    

    re: -.1  HCRA and DCRA
    
    The plans are explained in the Digital 1991 Benefits Book.
    
    In short, the plans allow you to allocates a specific amount of your
    weekly salary to pay for qualified medical and child care expenses. 
    This money that goes into these "special" accounts IS NOT TAXED.  As
    you incure these expenses throughout the year, you submit a
    reimbursement request to recover these expenses.  The one gotcha with
    these plans is any monies not used in the account at the end of the
    year IS NON-REFUNDABLE.   Any excess funds is kept to help defray the
    costs with implementing these programs.
    
    The "use it or lose it" concept scared me off during open enrollment in
    Dec. 1990.  But this year, I prepared two buget plans to help estimate
    my medical and child care expenses for 1992.  So I enrolled in both
    programs during the Dec. 1991 open enrollment period.
    
    If you take into consideration that you don't have to pay federal or
    state tax on this expense money, you could be looking at saving upwards
    of 30+%.  Qualified medical expenses follow the same IRS rules for
    Schedule "A" medical deductions...Except in this case, you do not have
    to meet the 7%(?) of AGI min. floor.  For more detail on medical expenses,
    order the appropriate IRS publication which covers this topic.
    
    The next time you can enroll in either of these two programs is Nov.
    1992.  Track these expenses closely this year and plan you buget for
    1993 and enroll. 
    
    John

    The loophole is that there is a minimum weekly amount you can put in
    the HCRA and DCRA funds.  I don't have any dependents, and my yearly
    medical expenses are much less than the total of the minimum weekly
    payments into the fund, so neither of them does me any good.  You have
    to carefully work out your budget to make this work for you.
    
    /Charlotte

	HCRA allows a lot of medical expenses that you may not even think about.
	E.g., if you get a new pair of eyeglasses (not Ray Ban's :-), you can
	claim the cost for reimbursement. All dental payments not covered by
	Digital's dental plan are also reimbursable. Over-the counter drugs
	are NOT reimbursable.

	The min. contribution to HCRA is 5$/week. Given the tax benefits, if 
	you are in the 35% bracket (Fed + State), all it takes is about $175
	in such expenses per year to come out ahead.

	For DCRA, I vaguely remember, that if your gross income is more than
	24000$ and you file jointly, going the DCRA way is better than taking
	the childcare credit.

	Re. enrollment. Besides the end of the year enrollment, you can also
	enroll for a change in status situation. Last October, when my wife
	started working after our son was born, I could sign up for DCRA for the
	last 2.5 months. By taking the maximum deduction ($96/week), I was 
	able to save about 300-400$ in taxes!

    Re:        <<< Note 2342.19 by CADSYS::HECTOR::RICHARDSON >>>
               -< there is a floor as well as a ceiling amount >-
    
    >The loophole is that there is a minimum weekly amount you can put in
    >the HCRA and DCRA funds.  I don't have any dependents, and my yearly
    >medical expenses are much less than the total of the minimum weekly
    >payments into the fund, so neither of them does me any good.  You have
    >to carefully work out your budget to make this work for you.
    
    If you're on one of the Digital medical plans, it should be no problem.
    I believe the minimum HCRA is $5 per week.  That's just about enough to
    cover the new deductable on DMP 1 or 2.  Add to that the other expenses
    that aren't covered by the Digital plans, e.g., eye glasses, eye
    examinations, the non-reimbursed portions of covered medical and dental
    expenses, etc., and it shouldn't be hard to figure at least a small
    deduction that can save you some money at tax time.
    
    Your mileage may vary if you're with an HMO, depending on what the HMO
    doesn't cover and what their co-payments are.
    
    /Ed

    Another benefit of an HCRA account is that the money you will
    contribute over the course of a year is available to you even 
    if it hasn't been deducted from your pay yet. I've been reimburst
    in January money that won't be deducted until December.
    
    Randy
                          

My PSA said that you can change your deduction once during the year (including
stopping your deduction).  However, I'm not sure if, having stopped your
deductions, you can continue submitting expenses.  If you can, then have the
minimum taken out, and then when you've contributed enough to cover you for the
whole year, stop your deductions.

Also, even mileage, tolls, and parking is reimburseable, although at 9�/mi it
takes a lot of bookkeeping to get much back (unless to travel a *long* way for
treatment).

                                                                -- Chuck Newman

    You can't submit claims for expenses that occurred after you stop your
    deductions. I know that if you stay in the entire year you have until
    Mar 31 of the following year to submit HCRA claims for the previous
    year, but I don't know for sure how much time you have after you stop
    your deductions to submit HCRA claims for expenses that occurred while
    you were still having deductions taken.
    
    For HCRA, planning IS important (although, as a few notes back said,
    it's surprising how many things ARE decutible).
    
    Also, I believe that once you pick a weekly amount, the only thing you
    can do is stop your HCRA deductions. I don't think you can change the
    amount (at least that's the way it was in 1991).
    
    
    Dick

>	E.g., if you get a new pair of eyeglasses (not Ray Ban's :-), you can
>	claim the cost for reimbursement.

      Can  you get prescription Ray Ban's?  Prescription sun glasses ARE
      covered. I got a pair of prescription Serengetti(sp?) Drivers paid
      from my HCRA.
      
      If  you wear glasses (or contacts) it becomes very easy to justify
      setting up an HRCA.
      
      Now,  for sure, a 30% (+/-) tax saving on a minimum of 52*5 = $260
      won't make you rich.  Even if you took the max it would  not  make
      you rich.  But the surest way to get rich may be S_L_O_W_L_Y. i.e.
      don't look for a way to make a lot of money in one fell swoop. Pay
      attention  to  lots  of  little ways to make or save lots of small
      amounts that will accumulate.

    Re: .25
    
    >  Now,  for sure, a 30% (+/-) tax saving on a minimum of 52*5 = $260
    >  won't make you rich.  Even if you took the max it would  not  make
    >  you rich.  But the surest way to get rich may be S_L_O_W_L_Y. i.e.
    >  don't look for a way to make a lot of money in one fell swoop. Pay
    >  attention  to  lots  of  little ways to make or save lots of small
    >  amounts that will accumulate.

    
    I agree with you 100%. Yet everybody chuckles when I buy a LOT of tuna
    fish when it's on sale for $.99/can instead of $1.39. (The way I figure
    it I'm earning 40% on my money).
    
    Dick
    

re: .26
    
>    I agree with you 100%. Yet everybody chuckles when I buy a LOT of tuna
>    fish when it's on sale for $.99/can instead of $1.39. (The way I figure
>    it I'm earning 40% on my money).
    
      Well I don't happen to like tuna fish, so I'll chuckle too! :-)
      
      ...but we have enough cards and wraping paper for next Xmas -- all
      bought at 50% or more off...

    Using the money that you do have in a prudent manner (read, "BIG FAN OF
    HCRA") is certainly a step in the right direction.         

   As some of the previos notes said there is no SURE way to get rich.  There
are some methodes which will almost certainly pay off over the long term such
as a consistant and conservative investment approach.

   If you want to "get rich quick" the legal alternatives are:

   1. Gambling in some states ( you will probably lose, but have a chance to 
        win big).

   2. Start your own buisiness ( most fail within 1 year).

   3. Real estate ( this takes much research, much work, and good timing).

   4. High risk investment ( options, commodities, ect. Most people lose money)

   

   There are hundreds of people waiting to prey upon you.  There are plenty 
of multi level marketing schemes that make a few people rich but not the 
majority.  There are also hundreds of schemes that are outright fraud.  If
someone says you can make millions in your spare time if you listen to them, 
you are about to be separated from your money.  Be very carefull who you send
money to.

Brian Hibbert

    I have a friend who has owned 6 homes in the same town in the last 20
    years. Each time they bought, substantial parts of the home equity were
    used for short-term expenditures, such as property improval and
    furniture.
    Most recently they bought a home in 1989 at "depressed prices". Then
    they were layed off Dec 1990, finally selling their home December 1991.
    Result $40,000, no IRA, no Keogh plan, no home, no retirement plan, 50
    years old.
    Solution:
    Buy two or 3 'investment' houses to build a retirement package.
    Prediction:
    Disaster. Why should the next homes they buy serve them any better than
    the last 6. If they only have realized $40,000 (they spent all their
    retirement before before the layoff) during some of the most exciting
    and rewarding real-estate times in history, how the hell can they
    expect to make money in the next 15?

    	Wanna get rich?
    
    	Marry into money.

    
    
    old saying:
    
    people who marry for money earn every penny...

RE: .30

    I didn't say you would get rich in real estate, I said you COULD.  You 
most likely will not get rich trading a personal residence.  At best you will
will make a few thousand $$$.  To get RICH at real estate you have to buy 
investment properties.  Income producing properties have the most potential
since you don't have to rely completely on an increase in the property value 
to make a profit.  You also get lots of tax breaks in real estate (depreciation,
intrest expense, maintnance expense, ect).

    Real estate can be risky.  The value of the property could fall, the cost
of maintaining the property could increase beyond the income, or you could 
get a bad tennant that it takes months to evict.  The potential rewards in 
real estate are great, but the potential risks match the rewards.

Brian

    Unfortunately many of the risks in Real Estate are beyond your control.
    What do you do when the bottom falls out of the job market in the area
    where you've purchased?  Or they buiild a landfill abutting you?  Etc.
    
    On the other hand, trading options and futures gives you comparable
    leverage and a ready two-way market.  "All" you have to do is figure
    out where a market is going from here.  Repeat until wealthy.
    
      John

    re .33
    
    I hope you didn't think I was trashing your suggestions. It is easy to
    understand why one might have concluded that was the intent of .30. Was
    just kind of grousing about my friends doing so poorly. (as a result of
    poor decisions, and most recently bad luck)
    
    
    				herb

    Here's one:
    
    If you have owned your house long enough to build up some real equity
    and are thinking of refinancing your existing mortgage, look into
    pulling out some equity and plowing into a stable investment.  For
    example:
    
    		market value	$200,000
    		old mort. bal.	  50,000
    
    
    		new mortgage    $100,000 (or more)
    		new rate 	8.5%
    
    Now, working in taxes:
    
    		effective mortgage rate after 28% tax	6.12%
    
    So, you only need to find an after tax yield that matches 6.12% to
    break even.  Now that may or may not be easy depending on your risk
    tolerance today.  However, my belief is that these rates can't last
    terribly long, and the time may well come that you'll look back on 8.5%
    mortgage rates as dirt cheap (e.g. once the inflation rate increases
    and the Fed tries to slow down the economy (2-3 years????).
    
    Upside - 30 years of (probably) cheap, tax deductable (hopefully!)
    money.
    
    Downside - the economy sits in the doldrums forever - the Fed continues
    to cut the prime - and you're forced to refinance at an even lower
    interest rate.  Now.... if your money is in Treasuries or Muni's, their
    value may increase in this scenario.
    
    If you folks see any holes in this strategy, please let me know because
    I'm starting the process SOON!
    
    Geoff
    

    Beware, however, the dreaded "Alternative Minimum Tax"...triggered by
    the presence of a home equity interest deduction, this beastie (which
    grows bigger by a few percent this year) can sneak up on you and
    seriously upset your tax planning.  Make sure you don't get caught
    unexpectedly...if you do, it'll ruin your day. :-(
    
    Steve

    Pretty negative thinking Brian, but if you think YOU can't, you're
    absolutely RIGHT!
    
    You are dead WRONG about multi-level marketing, where did you get
    your information?  If someone thinks enough of you to offer you an
    opportunity, and you're seriously looking for one (doesn't sound that
    way) check it out with the Attorney Generals office or the
    Federal Trade Commission.
    
                                                               

    
    Hi,
    
    For those of you misssing "48 Hours" in CBS last night after boring
    Super Ball, here's the scoop of subject "Make Rich quick"
    
    1. Make Real_Estate investment as well as seminar program
    
    2. Dial in the 2-3 phones whole day by listening Radio award program.
    
    3. By reading this book "How to marry a Millionnair" and fulfill 
       your dream .
    
    4. Cutting coupon, and attending one of the game show to hit Million
       club status.
    
    
    My thought after waste my 40 mins on T.V (never mind Super Ball
    betting):
    
    1. This Vitaminese guy is biggest scumm, and currently investigate by 
        attorney general of Floria.
    
    2. I don't have the time to listen radio and dial phone whole day until
       I got layoff. As matter of fact, I do have busy job.
    
    3. If it's 20 yrs ago, I may think this idea twice when I was single. Now,
       all that is just dream in wonderland. :-)
     
    4. This was happend in CA only, therefore I need relocate first to get
    out of this N.E recession. However, I couldn't even afford to move.
       Forget about it.
    
    
    Now, you see, there's million of millionair opportunity lay out there.
    and I'm too lazy to grap it. What a big fool I'm ! :-)
    
    
    Michael..

      On the other hand ...
      
              ...I'm already rich!
      
                              SO ARE YOU!!!!!!!
      
      Anybody  who  command the tremendous capital resources required to
      participate in a computer notes conference is,  in  terms  of  the
      general human condition on planet Earth, very, very wealthy indeed.
      
      This is not to say that I'm not interested in increasing my wealth
      -- I am! -- but every now and again we should all take a moment to
      contemplate how well off we are compared to our grandparents or to
      many folks in the "third world" today.
      
      The  more  we  have,  the  more  we  want.   No matter HOW much we
      accumulate we will NEVER be "rich" in our own eyes because we will
      always  want  more.  This seems to be a curse of human nature; we
      are never satisfied.  But it can also be seen as the strength  of
      the human race; we are always driven to accomplish more.
      
      >>>> We now return contol of this topic to.....

    From some of the schemes presented in the 48 hours show (and I fully
    agree with .39 about the value/interest of the show), I think the best
    way to make a lot of money is (and this is certainly nothing new)...
    
    Peddle a scheme telling others how to make a lot of money :-)
    
    Dick

    re: .2
    
    I don't know about that.  George Bush's son seems to have done a good
    job of robbing Silverado.  I think the goal is to rob is from the top
    so the risk is nil.  And on the off chance that you have to "do time," 
    it will be a token sentence at a country club. 

    Neil Bush was found to have shown poor judgment in his actions as a
    director of Silverado.
    
    He has never been accused of fraud or anything criminal.

    re: .40
    
    You are right. Everyone has a different difination of what 'a lot of
    money' is. Some people will chase after wealth indefinitely. They never
    seems to have enough $$. Will that make a person happy? However, for
    me, 'a lot of money' means a critical mass that if I reach it, it can
    generate enought money to sustain my today's life style without having
    to work on a job or anything else. That means, if I have alotof money,
    I don't have to worry about loosing my job and can live the same life I
    have now. 
    
    What are other people's thoughts on this? It would interesting to hear
    about them.

    > generate enough money to sustain my today's life style without
    > having to work on a job or anything else.
    
    That will never happen.  Your expenses will expand to consume your
    larger income.
    
    Martin

    
    	Re: .44                                 
    
    	Interesting definition, and one that takes a lot of discipline to
    implement even if you have a huge pile of money set aside.  Many
    people, I suspect, if they did have enough set aside to generate income
    equivalent to their salary, would see their standard of living increase
    (the cost therein, actually) to nearly the "2 times salary" level.  If
    they lost their job, they'd be "out" of 50% of their income.  The only
    way this would work is if the person with the huge pile of money set aside
    didn't touch it unless they were out of a job.  It can be done, but it
    takes a lot of discipline to not buy that fancier car by dipping into
    the half million+ set aside...
    
    							-craig
    
    p.s.  I'll toss in my $.02 worth -- to me, wealth is knowing that I'll
    be able to put my kids through college and have enough left over for a
    decent, and long, retirement without having to count on Social Security
    or Digital for much of my retirement income.

    Where does the term Real-Estate come from ?
    
    Is there such a thing as Pretend-Estate ?   :^)
    
    
    I think that the majority of rich people are born rich, ie, wealthy
    parents, familly business, Public school education, Aristocracy
    etc etc etc..
    
    
    
    Also, most people who live rich, die rich, so what's the point in
    making mega-bucks unless you're gonna blow it.
    
    I get the impression that most people who dedicate their lives to
    earning money , dedicate very little time to enjoying it.
    eg. Michael Jackson, very rich, but very sad.
    
    Give me a DEC salary any day.   :^)
    
    Yours Insanely..............
    

    
    re: "all I want is enough money to maintain todays' life style"
        (paraphrased)
    
    Ah, there's the rub right there.  Did you consider that your quality
    of life has changed gradually but continually throughout your life?
    Until recently, anyway, things continued to get better...  suppose you
    were to maintain the quality of life you had as a student, then you
    might be 'rich' already!  Move to Tuva & buy a palace!
    
    The problem is that as we attain that financial goal, our lifestyles
    and needs change along the way.  It is a fortunate accident that our
    needs actually diminish when we get older (e.g. no more kids at home or
    in college), or most folks might never be able to retire.
    

    re .47
    
    Real estate is "real" as opposed to paper claims on others (which 
    can evaporate overnight) or movable items (which can be stolen or
    sold).  The land doesn't move, in general, particularly the
    rain-watered agricultural land which was important when the term
    was created.  Medieval peasants didn't consider beachfront to be
    very valuable.
    
    Most people who are rich were _not_ born rich--there's a lot of 
    serious statistics on this, but I can't remember any sources
    off-hand.  A good introduction would be to scan the FORBES list
    and check out the ratio of "made it" to "inherited it".  I remember
    reading the list and noticing that there weren't very many of the
    latter.  Since you're from the U.K., where there is a more obvious
    aristocracy, you may find the equivalent sources to give different
    ratios there--but I doubt it.
    
    Remember that the current tax regimes in the U.S. and U.K. both
    lead to rapid erosion of family wealth: consider what would happen
    to the Gates fortune under some reasonable assumptions:
    
    	Gates has five billion dollars		$5,000,000,000
    	He leaves two children and the 
    	   estate pays 55% in tax		$1,125,000,000 each
    	They each leave two children		$  253,125,000 each
    	Ditto in the fourth generation		$   56,953,125 each
    	Ditto in the fifth generation		$   12,814,453 each
    	Ditto in the sixth generation		$    2,883,251 each
    
    While this analysis assumes that inheritors spend all the income,
    that taxes do not change, etc., it clearly shows that a combination 
    of taxes and the splitting due to more than one child will rapidly
    (by 2150 or so) turn a world-class fortune in one man's hands
    into thirty-two people none of whom are much richer than your
    average minor real-estate developer.  Higer taxes, large
    gifts to charities or more children would dissolve the riches
    even faster.
    
    There was a recent story on the Kennedy money in Forbes (or Fortune).
    A hundred million sounds like a lot until you realize that it's
    split over a large number of people who are busy spending all the 
    nominal income (i.e. are dipping into capital without realizing it).
    
    			-John Bishop
    

    re: .45
    
    Haven't you heard? You NEVER say "NEVER"???   :-)
    
    re: .45, .46, .48
    
    I think .46 is right on the money! It does take a lot of descipline and
    some decent savings. But, I think it is achievable. If you can save a
    "good amount" of money and invest wisely. Do not touch it unless it is
    absolutely necessary. Then, there is a good chance for the money to
    grow to a big enough amount to achieve the "critical mass". Yes, your
    lifestyle will change as your income changes. But, how much it will
    change can be controlled by you. If your lifestyle is that you want to
    spend $1.50 for every $1 you make. Then, maybe that's the first thing
    you want to change! Well, there are many people who were born to rich
    families or get rich by a luck of draw. But, there are also many people
    who had it all and then lost it all. I am sure we all can come up with
    many examples of people who made a decent living when they were
    capable. Then, when they are nolonger able to make money, they start to
    live in poverty or become homeless. It's mostly because of poor
    planning. When they had the money, they spend every penny of it and
    never worried about their later days. If you don't want that to happen
    to you, you should start planning now. Don't get me wrong. I don't
    encourage people just save, save and save. You need to enjoy your
    life, too. But, there is a balance. How much is a good balance? That is
    a personal decision. This formula may not be feasible for everyone.
    But, if you think you want to take control of your own future and have
    the discipline to do it, it just might work for you.
    
    It's my $.02
    
    Mike

    Wealth is relative. I was talking to a couple last weekend whose goal
    in life was to be broke. They are already broke and heavily into debt,
    so it would be a major improvement for them just to be broke !
    My definition of wealth (and success) is to be able to do what I want
    to do when I want to do it. That is different from today's situation
    where I HAVE to work to earn the salary to pay the bills. The first
    step is GOOD - Get Out Of Debt. Whilst you are in debt (mortgage/loans)
    you will always be "owned" by someone else. Your interest payments fund
    the bank manager's wife's new Mercedes, not your own wife's Mercedes,
    and you don't even get the chance to choose the colour! The second step
    is to save/invest your capital wealth into diverse areas and just live
    of the interest, always paying cash for everything.
    
    Success doesn't have to be gross material possessions. It's simply
    having the financial freedom to do what you CHOOSE to do and what makes
    you happy and contented.
    
    Anyone know where I can borrow    $2M ;-)
    
    Ian
    

    I enrolled in the initial offering of the HCRA plan. Does anyone
    know if reenrollment is required and when?
                          vince

You have to reenroll every year at open enrollment time.

         <<< SUBWAY::DISK$D1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MARKET_INVESTING.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< Market Investing >-
================================================================================
Note 108.0                     How To Become Rich                     No replies
LJOHUB::HEERMANCE "Belly Aching on an Empty Stomach" 64 lines  17-MAR-1992 09:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In the previous version of this file there was a note titled
    "How to Become Rich."  I never entered my reply to that note
    and thought I would do it now.
    
	1.  Invent a product which is cheap to produce, and no one
	    needs.  The strategy here is that since it's unnecessary,
	    there will be no established competitor.

	    Examples:

		Pet Rocks

		Women's make up.

		Fashion.


	2.  Price your product with a high profit margin.  You'll need
	    the cash to become rich and pay for step 3.


	3.  Use a relentless advertising blitz to tie the purchase of
	    your product to emotional decision making.  The strategy
	    is that people don't rationally work out cost to benefit
	    when they are thinking in this manner.

	    Examples:

		Desire for Beauty.

		Desire for Love

		Desire for Money.


	4.  Use your income stream to develop a replacement product.

	    Example:

		New Coke vs. old Coke


	5.  Use the media to make your current product obsolete when
	    the competition appears.  They will loose money while you
	    have already collected your profits.

	    Examples:

		The "What's In, What's Out" lists in magazines.

		Pay motion picture companies to place your product
		in scenes of their films.

		Feature media figures in your new commercials using
		your new product in favor of the old version.

	6.  Repeat starting from step 2.

    
    The only bug in the technique is that you already have to be rich
    to make it work.

    Martin H.
    
    

re:                       <<< Note 15.8 by MRKTNG::VULLO >>>

    
>          Drive an old car (lower insurance, excise taxes and no monthly
>                            payments)

>          Learn to maintain and repair your car and things around the
>            house.
>          If you can save $50/month doing stuff like this, it is like
>            making $75 more per month.
 

I've been out of school for nearly 6 years and I've always maintained my
own car.  No matter the job, big or small, I usually always end up doing it
myself.  I owned an '81 camaro that I paid $5000 for, drove it for 100k miles,
did all the work myself on it, and sold it for $1800.  I had it for just
over 6 years.  Just looking back at the jobs I did on the car to keep it
running, I easily saved myself in excess of $7000 in repair expenses.  I always
put used parts in it from the junkyard - a used alternator at the JY costs
$25;  a rebuilt one costs ~75;  a new one from the dealership is probably
in excess of $200.  I never had a car payment on this car  and my
insurance was always fairly low (under $600/yr and as low as $420/yr).  i just
bought myself a used 86 mustang (paid cash) that i plan to maintain myself 
also.  since may 92 when i bought it, i've had zero problems (knock on plastic).

i also maintain my s.o.'s car (87 nova).  i just changed all the belts on
it: timing, a/c, alt, p/s belts.  total cost $50.00.  The shop cost for a job
like this would be >$250 !!

my motto is to buy used, popular, easy-to-work on cars.  low insurance, 
easy to maintain, and parts are plentiful at both junkyards and 3-party
mfgrs.

i have friends who go out, buy themselves an expensive car, leverage about
80% of the cost.  they bring it to the repair place and pay top dollar on
top of the $300/mo car payment plus the $90/mo insurance payment.  when their
car is paid off, they trade it in and get another one....  then they wonder
why they can't save anything!

    I totally agree with the "get rich[er] slowly" techniques for the
    average person. Schemes to get rich quick entail very high risk.
    
    However, in this note, I *would* be interested in hearing schemes that
    *have* worked for some people. There is, for example, a local (Baltimore) 
    speculator who got his start in 1977 by borrowing $3000 and buying into
    foreign currency options. (I think it was options in Deutschemarks).
    The currency took a major change in value soon afterwards; he had
    guessed right, and quadrupled his money. He continued speculating in
    currencies, which are quite volitile and not as well regulated as other
    types of options, before eventually branching into commodities, then
    more conservative investments. He's currently worth over a hundred
    million. Sorry that I can't remember his name; he's an African-American
    (is that P.C. enough for ya? :-)
    
    On a similar subject, there is a story in the "Dangerous Visions"
    anthology called "Carcinoma's Angels". It contains a hilarious (and
    fictitious) account of how a broke college student used a sequence of
    plausible schemes to build a $100M fortune in about four years. It's
    just part of the story, but a good one.
    				Jim

    Well, there's Bill Gates, if "quick" can be over several years
    (your example starts in '77).  Also Steve Jobs and the Woz and
    others of that sort.
    
    Entertainment is good for high growth of income: the kid in
    "Home Alone" made $100,000 for the first movie and several million
    for the sequel.  Many stars (movie or music) are worth lots
    even when young (how old is Madonna?).  But now you're not 
    talking market speculation.
    
    Micheal Milkin (spelling?) made a bundle in the market in only
    a few years, basically from inventing "junk" bonds (or rather
    a distinct packaging and so on--low quality bonds already 
    existed).  Most (if not all) was done legally (I think the crime
    of "insider trading" is too ill-defined to be usable, so I may
    have a bias here).
    
    			-John Bishop

>    existed).  Most (if not all) was done legally (I think the crime
>    of "insider trading" is too ill-defined to be usable, so I may
    
    He wasn't guilty of insider trading.  Louis Rukeyser, no Milliken
    apologist, said he was convicted of "Violations so technical as to be
    almost incomprehensible."
    
    If you REALLY want to make a lot of money in little time you'd be
    best advised to play craps or blackjack in a large casino.  The odds
    are against you, but not by as much as they are in the market.
    
      John

    
    >> The odds are against you, but not by as much as they are in the
    >> market.
    
       ok, I'll bite.  How can you say that the odds are against you
       in the market?  A buy-and-holder who buys an index fund has the
       odds in their favor, even after inflation.
    

>       ok, I'll bite.  How can you say that the odds are against you
>       in the market?  A buy-and-holder who buys an index fund has the
>       odds in their favor, even after inflation.
    
    Because the goal was to make a lot of money in a little time, 
    not a long time.
    
      John