Conference noted::sf

    Well, for what it's worth, the show premiers this week-end.
    
    Dave

There is a Fox home page, and a section devoted to new shows
The URL for Space is:

http://www.foxnetwork.com/Prime/NewShows/Space/index.html

Uh oh, got a bad feeling about this, though could be just the 
idiots who write the copy for the homepage.

From the Space homepage:

More STAR WARS than STAR TREK, this series takes sci-fi audiences and
adventure-loving viewers into a future where Earth has colonized far outside
its own galaxy, certain that we are alone in the universe. It is there that our
heroes, NATHAN WEST, SHANE VANSEN and COOPER HAWKES -- an unlikely trio --
encounter a race of aliens whose surprise attack quickly decimates Earth's most
elite fighting squadron. The young team is barely ready to move to the front
lines, but they have no choice. With bravery and determination, humor and
friendship on their side, this group of courageous cadets takes up a
life-and-death fight against one of the most formidable enemies ever seen on
television.



My initial problem with this is that I've read it's supposed to be set
in the 2060's, and from above 'Earth has colonized far outside its own
galaxy'.   Sigh... If we've gotten out of the solar system in the next
hundred years, I'll be pleasantly surprised.  Of course, if I'm even alive
by the time the 2060's roll around, I'll probably be pleasantly 
surprised too ;-)

PeterT

    Hear this morning on the radio it be a 2 hour premier
    
    any cooments?
    
    jw
    

    This show was okay.  I prefer scifi that's more footloose and
    fancyfree.  The people in this show were bound and gagged by
    20th century traditions and behavior.  All the military stuff was
    not especially entertaining.
    
    Also, was that last attack supposed to be a major offensive?
    Unless they were carrying atomic weapons, a couple dozen alien
    fighters are not going to make much of a dent on an entire planet.
    Everything seemed a little understated.

I thought it was a pretty good version of the Starship Trooper/Forever War
theme. Heinlein always loved the misfit hero, and Hawkes fits the bill. The
"Groombridge forces" was a nod to Haldeman; didn't one of the battles in
"Forever War" or "Mindbridge" take place there?

Decent effects, decent characterization and plot for TV SF. Remember when "V"
was touted as the biggest TV SF event of all time? This is much better, at least
for the opener. Military SF, and this form of military SF (which I personally
enjoy), is almost a genre in itself. It will be interesting to see how they keep
to the mold and maintain it. A few stolen lines, like "In space, no one can hear
you scream...unless it's the Marine Corps battle cry!" A few cliches, like the
obligatory awarding-of-the-medals-after-the-climactic-battle scene.

Overall, not bad. I hope they can keep it up.

My wife and I liked it: didn't love it, but will watch it again.

Things I liked:

1) The writers were at least literate in the SF field.  "In space no one can
   hear you scream...", the references to Tellus (from E.E. Smith), the 
   references to Groombridge 34 (from Joe Haldeman), and the enhanced human
   who was built for a war but now faces extreme prejudice from the people
   he saved is a nice tip-of-the-hat to Timothy Zahn's Cobra series (yes it
   is also a straight copy of Vietnam, but let's not get picky).

2) Decent tech level.  It is 65 years from now, so a lot of stuff will have
   changed, but it should be nothing that we can't recognize the vague
   outlines of.  (As a way of analogy, I am thinking of an SF literate
   person from 1930 looking at our society today).  Full-wall television
   screens in private homes (ok, *EXTREMELY NICE* private homes, but still
   available to the general public), nice holographic displays for the
   military, but some stuff didn't change like buses and aircraft hangars.
   Even the shuttle to get to near-Earth orbit looked similar to our stuff.
   And did you notice the twin 18" satellite dishes next to the house?

   Some people will object to the fact that we are colonizing other solar
   systems (and I agree the person who wrote "colonizing distant galaxies"
   should get a crash course in basic astronomy) in a mere 65 years, as 
   well as treating a trip from here to Jupiter as something to be done
   in a few hours.  The second is a problem, but the first can be easily
   explained with a single (I said single, not simple) breakthrough which
   involves using worm-holes to go from here to there with bothering to
   traverse the intervening distance.  To me both of these fall under the
   category of "willing suspension of disbelief".  And with a fairly cheap
   method of going from one solar system to another, I think the population
   pressures would force the creation of colonies.

3) Decent political level.  Unless something disastrous happens, I don't see
   a huge change in geo-politics in a mere 65 years.  Consider what has
   changed in the last 65 years: some disastrous wars, some change in the
   forms of government of some of the major powers, but with the exception
   of the UN, our mythical visitor from 1930 would not be surprised by much.
   Yes, there has been a lot of history, but fundamentally the same group
   of nations are still among the most powerful (plus or minus a few).

4) The people were not that different.  Some might say that this is a flaw,
   but I don't think so.  To me a mere 65 years is too short to change people
   in any substantive ways.  Yeah, I object to the Pink Floyd and Winston
   Churchill references as too obvious panderings to the audience, but the
   rest of it was not bad.

5) The fact that this squadron was *not* alone in fighting off the bad guys.
   The way the promo's read, I was afraid we were going to have another
   "Last Starfighter" on our hands, with only the valiant troop of rookies
   able to stand off the invading hordes (heavy sarcasm intended).  But the
   rookies were in fact rookies, who were not as good as some of the other
   members of the military, and were assigned duties which matched that.
   And the rest of the military is basically intact (yes, the Angels got
   trashed, but for all their skill they are only one squadron, and the
   movie recognized this fact).


Ok, on to stuff I didn't like:

1) The characters were cardboard.  I don't care about a single one of them,
   even though they tried to push all the right buttons.  Splitting up the
   couple was an obvious ploy (some screen-writer must *love* Joe Haldeman),
   the rest of the squadron and the Angels were right out of Central Casting,
   and the Sargeant was classic.  My wife and I were joking that Sargeants
   are in fact universal: take the one from today, and swap him with one of
   the sargeants in Caesars Legions in 100 AD, and with a few minor issues
   like language and tech level, they wouldn't have to change at all.  Their
   training methods and human interaction techniques would survive without
   any change needed, on either side... :^)

2) When will screen-writers stop treating space fighters like aircraft?
   Banking, rolling, chandelles, *YOU DON'T NEED THIS STUFF IN SPACE*!!!
   Flip the ship end-to-end and start blasting, and depend on vector
   addition to do it's work...

-- Ken Moreau

Not as bad as I had feared.
Got as good as (even) Earth 2.
My Sunday nights are free again.

- tom]

Obviously they haven't been paying enough attention to Babylon 5.  Or they
just decided that aircraft maneuvers in space still look way cool.  They 
did give a nod to real space motion when they edged closer to some of the 
asteroids, but that was about the only real place they did that.  Though they
did at least forego the loop up and behind your enemy tactic that Chakotay
did on Voyager a few weeks ago.  They're probably saving that for future
episodes.  And having the colonist base at Epsilon Eriadna (?) ???
This is postulated as one of the possible sites for Babylon 5 itself (which
from the show is in the Epsilon grid).

I'm glad that the 'colonizing distant galaxies' was apparantly the home
page writers mistake.  I'm not too sure of my overall impressions, ie
it wasn't as bad as Seaquest originally was, when I had to bail out halfway
through the premiere, but doesn't quite give me the warm fuzzies yet.
I'll check it out for a while, but if it doesn't get a bit more interesting, 
I'll probably stop watching.

PeterT

Some other thoughts: I had to laugh when the "Angry Angels" appeared. It was the
Thornbirds from "Private Benjamin", dressed in black! And what a goofy name...I
guess they were trying to get a reference to the Navy's elite Blue Angels team.

The wormholes were an opportunistic mode of travel: they had to go when the
wormholes opened, not just whenever and wherever they wanted. Again, Haldeman
relies on this heavily.

The aliens had a battle group, not just a few fighters. They ought to be big
enough to carry the strategic planet-busters, just as our present day aircraft
carriers and subs carry nuclear weapons. Likewise, our heroes had help when the
Groombridge forces, with the human heavy ships, showed up in the nick of time.

The troops were due at Jupiter in 84 hours. That's pullin' some G's! Assuming
impulse power only, no intra-system wormholes, someone ought to do the math on
acceleration and deceleration and figure out just how thinly they got smeared
across the interior surfaces of the ship. Of course, space travel has always
been a vexing problem for SF, since the distances are so great, and the plot
loses something if all the characters are dead before they get there (but that's
another story...).

No dogfighting in space? How boring. What about controlled combat maneuvers
where you are trying not to blow up you compatriots?

They kept mentioning the AI wars, which was both good and bad. Bad in that this
seemed to be the only event of the past generation or so that had any
significance to anybody, and good in that it is the start of developing a
history, providing some depth that they can work on for character development.
Now if they can add some other things to thicken the history and context, that
would be good. It lends reality to the future world to make it more interesting
and believable.

And I agree with Ken, it is good that they know their SF. Maybe it will lend a
little more heart to this show than has gone into a lot of past TV SF. Let's
just hope they got their references in the original, and not from some
Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, complete with annotations, cross-references,
and author bios!

    re .10
    
    Being based in the uk, I haven't seen this program, however...
    
�The troops were due at Jupiter in 84 hours. That's pullin' some G's! Assuming
�impulse power only, no intra-system wormholes, someone ought to do the math on
�acceleration and deceleration and figure out just how thinly they got smeared
�across the interior surfaces of the ship.
    
    In the Forever War by Joe Haldeman, he describes a couple of methods
    for dealing with high G maneouvers without smearing the crew.
    
    Clive
    

    Back of the envelope calculation...
    
    Let's assume the distance to Jupiter is 500 million miles, and assume
    they get there by constant acceleration halfway, turnover, and then
    constant deceleration until arrival.
    
    d = (at^2)/2, where d = distance, a = accleration, t = time
    
    We have to solve for half the trip, until turnover: d = 2.5E8 miles
    and t = 42 hours.  Now we can solve for a = 2d/t^2.
    
    a = 2(2.5E8 mi)(5280 ft/mi) / (42 hr * 3600 sec/hr)^2
    
      = 2.64E12 ft / 2.25E10 sec^2
    
      = approx 120 ft/sec^2
    
      = approx 4 G
    
    
    

But the Saratoga obviously had artical gravity so maybe they can do high G runs
but on a captial ship.  The fighters themselves are not equipped so and are
limited to the limitations of pilot's bodies.

4 G's?

Not having an envelope handy, I expected more than that, Jupiter being so far
away. Just goes to show, you shouldn't underestimate the power of 2!

Heck, I could've withstood 4 G's for 3 and a half days solid when I was young
enough to be a marine! Especially encased in jelly! Sure I could have!

RE: here to Jupiter in 84 hours

Saratoga has artificial gravity, because they were standing in what appeared
to be a 1g field during all their time aboard her, and the ship was certainly
not rotating to use angular acceleration to produce that gravity.  (Oh, boy,
can you picture docking on a ship that is rotating, where there are multiple
docking bays scattered over the length of the ship?!  That would be more
exciting than combat!).  So we don't know how many g's she was pulling to 
get to Jupiter in 84 hours.

Consider reading Heinlein's "Sky Lift", published in 1953.  In it he postulates
a torch ship carrying medicine which needs to get to Pluto (5E9 miles) *right 
now* because of a plague.  The pilots are young, in top shape, used to pulling 
lots of g's, and are stunned when they are asked to do 3.5gs for 9+ days.  As
one of them says "that is not a boost, that is a pull-out!".  He quotes the
trip at various speeds as 1g = 18 days, 2g's = 12 days 17 hours, 3.5g's = 
9 days 15 hours, and 16g's = 4.5 days.

Bottom line they do the trip, one pilot dies and the other is physically an
old man when the trip is done: bones brittle, cardiovascular system shot,
weak, etc.

-- Ken Moreau

    re .15
    
    I suppose there is some reason why they had to have a pilot at all.
    
    If they just sent the medicine then there would be almost no practical
    limit on the number of g's from the point of view of contents damage and
    the reduced mass of the craft would allow whatever technology they had
    available to produce much higher acceleration.

RE: .-1  <I suppose there is some reason why they had to have a pilot at all.>
    
Yes, they also sent an un-manned torch ship pulling 32+g's, but they made the
comment that such ships were notoriously unreliable, and informed the pilots
partway through their trip that the robot ship was still accellerating when it 
got near Pluto, so it was gone.

-- Ken Moreau

    Re .12:
    
    Not all the time needs to be spent at high gravity.  The trip could
    also be made in 84 hours with 10.4 hours at 7g, then 63.2 at one
    gravity, then 10.4 at 7g.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    BTW, the 84 hours I remember hearing was for the trip to MARS, not
    Jupiter.  That's where the found the alien.  So a lot less distance,
    less sustained Gs.
    

One assumes they have artificial gravity because they were walking around.
But then we don't really have a way of generating zero g other than setting
up a a studio in space (might happen one day), or go the Apollo 13 route
and ride the Vomit Comet (which was really nice to see by the way).  
Or do the hanging on string bit which is too hokey to even consider.
So until I hear them actually mention it, I'll suspend my belief here.

PeterT

    Re .9 .10
    
    On watching the tape of the premiere and 1st episode over again, I did
    notice that although the fighters maneuvered like atmospheric planes
    most of the time, they use the maneuvering jets to perform the rolls
    etc. On shot shows a ship rolling and banking, but on a second viewing,
    I noticed that one wing had a maneuvering jet firing up and the
    opposite wing had a jet firing downwards. I still think I saw a few
    shots where they neglected the maneuvering jets. Granted, they still
    move like airplanes when they don't necessarily have to, but at least
    they're doing it with maneuvering thrusters.
    
    On the AI war backstory...I read in an interview with the writers that
    there will be upcoming episodes that further explore the war with the
    AIs. Also they mentioned several sources that they were inspired by. I
    don't remember all of them, but I believe the mentioned Haldeman as
    well as Aliens.
    
    Also, I think someone mentioned that the drill sergeant seemed like
    every other drill sergeant...the interview also mentioned that the
    actor who played the part, has pretty much played the same role in
    many other movies including Full Metal Jacket, so I guess that would
    make that character rather familiar (or perhaps generic).
    
    It looks like the 1st 1 hour episode is starting to build up some
    longer term plot elements with mystery and conspiracy...what do you
    expect from the people who brought us the X-Files?
    
    I like the show. As long as they don't allow it to degenerate into the
    excuse of the week for lasers and explosions. It looks like they are
    moving in the right direction if they continue to develop some of the
    longer term plots and backstory.
    
    -Eric
    

    
    re .20 - weren't there some reasonably well done 0-g scenes in "2001"?
    
    len.
     

It's been a long time since I've last seen 2001, but I can remember a
few short scenes that were done pretty well for the time.  And I can
remember a few things that looked pretty hokey too.

PeterT

A couple of differences: 2001 was *BIG* budget; and SA&B relies heavily on
computer animation effects. Douglas Trumbull did a lot of pioneering effects
work on 2001 that John Dykstra later expanded with Star Wars. Lots of miniature
and matte work (with the later addition of motion-control cameras), plus people
hanging on wires, shot from angles picked to enhance the effect. The quality of
electronic effects is such now that I have a hard time discerning well-done
miniature from well-done animation, especially when they are blended. Remember
the graphics in Last Star Fighter? They were obvious because of their straighter
geometric shapes and less subtle shade rendering. The real test, as always, is
the live actors, who have to simulate moving in low-g environments. 2001 had the
great scene of the stewardess walking up the wall in her velcro slippers (done
with a big rotating set and fixed camera). 

    The best simulation shot in 2001 was the jogging sequence in Discovery.
    This time, two pieces of the set rotated in opposite directions.
    
    					andrew

    I think the budgets for TV preclude a lot of zero G scenes, especially
    on regular sets. Sets which simulate spin environments are probably
    also difficult to make. I think there are also difficulties in filming
    zero G and spin environments, so for the schedule of a weekly TV show,
    its probably out of the question to have a lot of the action take place
    in these environments. I think S:A&B probably should have set the time
    period a little later, since I find it hard to believe that earth would
    have developed/discovered interstellar travel, colonies, artifical
    gravity field generators, and huge space warships by 2063 (as someone
    else noted earlier).
    
    As far as budgets are concerned, S:A&B has a pretty big one for TV:
    I read that each episode cost between 1.5 and 2 million dollars for the
    first six episodes.
    
    Of the TV live action SF I've seen, there's relatively little zero G. 
    Space 1999 had a few shots of people floating in space (or the slow 
    motion shots on the lunar surface---how come they didn't move like that 
    in the moonbase?). As far as motion pictures go, Star Trek VI had that
    sequence on the Klingon ship, though a lot of that was probably
    computer animated. 
    
    Can't wait til Sunday's episode of S:A&B.

Or at least what I saw of it. My *WIFE* set the time on the VCR wrong, so it
thought it was 7AM, not 7PM. By the time I realized it, 25 minutes had passed. 

They are pursuing the AI wars theme, attending to unfinished business. It
provides a lot of open plot ground so that this is more interesting than just
blowing up aliens in space and chasing after West's girlfriend. One of the
strengths of Star Trek was the variety of themese and plot lines they pursued.

After the show, Fox advertised their Web site:

http://www.foxnetwork.com

They showed some nice looking Web pages, with pix and downloadable movies of the
spacecraft. However, they were either not really prepared to go online, or have
been swamped with traffic. I have not been able to complete a connection to it,
from either Mosaic or AOL's FTP access.

    re .27
    
    Try
    
    http://www.foxnetwork.com/Prime/NewShows/Space/index.html
    
    I was able to connect with it yesterday.
    
    The latest episode was entertaining, but was very unbelievable in that
    no armed service would normally post aviators to serve as ground sentries.
    Why post someone who they've invested a lot of time and money in
    training to fly a complex space vehicle to do a job that could be
    accomplished by any foot soldier fresh out of basic training?
    Especially when it seems like Earth is losing lots of trained pilots in
    space combat, I would think that they wouldn't want to risk pilots as
    ground sentries. Also, wouldn't it make more sense to use experienced
    ground troops for ground duty instead of aviators?
    
    Still like the show though...I like some of the hardware they had this
    episode too.
    
    -Eric
    

    RIght, and didn't they lose half their team to the AI's?
    I think they only left the 5 principles alive at the end, no?
    
    What was that last scene?  In the first minutes of the show, it
    looked like she was having premonitions about the fire-fight with
    the AIs on that mining world.  So was the last scene a premonition
    about her own (future) kids being kidnapped by the AIs? or was it
    a flashback?
    

    re .29
    
    spoilers for episode 2 (The Dark Side of the Sun)
    
    Yeah, you might be right, unless some people stayed aboard the
    transport pod, like on their first foray into the mining complex.
    
    They definitely showed 4 people go down (2 in the initial firefight,
    another when they went into the complex, and one more in the running
    firefight near the end). There may have been more casualties, when they
    were being freed, but that went so fast I didn't notice. Only the 5
    principals came out of the complex, so unless they left anyone behind,
    it would seem like they lost everyone else. Of course this is precisely
    the reason why they would never really waste trained pilots on such a
    mission. The casualty distribution reminds me of classic Trek: Kirk,
    Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Johnson, and Smith beam down. Johnson and Smith
    don't come back.
    
    I think they should keep some recurring minor squadron-members ...
    otherwise it seems like they are losing everyone in the squadron every 
    show. It would also make a little more suspense: since you know they
    probably won't kill off a regular, you know that if someone gets killed
    it will be the person you've never seen on the show before. If they had
    some people show up for a couple of episodes, and maybe even have a few
    lines, you might care about them more and thus increase the suspense a
    bit, knowing that that person might get killed. It also increases the
    sense of loss a bit more, if the victim was someone who'd been around
    for a few episodes, though I will have to admit I was sorry to see Lt.
    Nelson die, she would have been a good minor squadron member, oh well.
    
    As for the dream at the end, it was definitely a nightmare of Shane's
    childhood, since one of the other girls called out "Shane, throw it to
    me" or something like that...so she was playing it there too. Maybe the
    point of it was just to show that her confronting the AIs did not stop
    her nightmares (which is good, since too many shows have a character
    exorcise their personal demons in a single episode). Also, I read on
    the web page that 2 of the AIs are going to be recurring villains who
    will show up from time to time (the female leader was one of them).
    Perhaps the dream was simply there to say "you haven't seen the last
    of this AI (Feliciti)."
    
    Until the next episode,
    
    Eric
    

    I liked latest episode (Episode 3, Mutiny...Following the numbering on 
    the Fox www page...doesn't count premiere as episode) for story/plot
    idea. However, this episode probably contains the biggest nit to pick
    yet...without giving away the plot: they give a range in terms of
    parsecs for an object within visual range (at least in the special
    effects shot). I guess its better than using it as a unit of time.
    
    Earlier in this file, some people noted that the names Groombridge and
    Tellus were from SF literature (I believe Haldeman and EE "Doc" Smith).
    The latest episode opened with a base named Langston, a name used in
    many of Jerry Pournelle's books (the Langston field).
    
    There are other nits too, but those require the following spoiler
    warning:
    
    SPOILER:
    
    
    I found it difficult to believe that a few small laser blasts from 2
    single turrets on an old freighter could take out a destroyer. I think
    they only hit it twice before it blew up. The destroyer hit the
    freighter several times incurring only minor damage (somewhat
    believable since the main exposed areas of the cargo ship were exterior
    mounted cargo pods, which probably protected the more vital components
    in the center and ends of the ship--for Star Fleet Battles
    players...remember getting in a few phaser hits only to score useless
    "cargo" and "hull" hits).
    
    However, I still think the destroyer blew up too easily.
    
    I did like the story and the choices Hawkes and the other In Vitros
    were faced with when asked to cut power to the section housing the
    unborn In Vitros to save the ship. Maybe there was even a light
    allegory to abortion...is killing unborn In Vitros physiologically at 
    18 like killing an unborn fetus? The episode doesn't
    deliberately ask or make this connection, but you almost can't help
    thinking about it a little. The story was definitely disturbing to
    think about.
    
    -Eric
    

    RE .31
    
    I forgot to add this: up til now they've been using MSKs (Mega Statute
    Kilometers) whatever those are, for units of distance. Also, I think
    I've heard AUs used too. But in the latest episodes they (mis)used
    parsecs instead.

I hadn't really noticed the use of parsecs, but I did think I heard
them use AU's and almost thought of winding back the tape to see how
they had used it, but it wasn't important enough to me.  While the 
story was basically ok, it seemed that they could have cut
power to one of the sections that included not in storage people
without killing anyone.  But hey, what do I know...

It hasn't totally turned me off yet, but it's not really exciting me
all that much either.

PeterT

    Re .33
    
    Maybe the other cargo sections were not drawing as much power as the In
    Vitro tanks or the cryogenic suspension chambers. The life support
    systems in those areas probably draw more power than the regular cargo
    holds, many of which probably draw minimal power.
    
    -Eric

    Does S:A&B air at any other time than Sunday at 7 pm?  With the
    Fox football game on, it appears Space is going to start late every
    single Sunday.  With my favorite show, Babylon 5, on TV38 (Boston)
    at 8 pm, I'm not even going to bother with Space since I'll be
    switching channels before the climax.
    
    If Space is on at another time, I'll figure out how to watch or
    tape it for later viewing.
    _Marty 

    As far as I know, it shows only that one time.  You're eiher going to 
    have to ignore SAAB, or, like some of us, use 2 VCR's.  I say 
    2 because even if you watch b5 when it is airing, you REALLY need
    that tape of it to rewatch.  Especially this Sunday, with 
    "The Long Twilight Struggle"  Someone posted in rastb5
    
    > Dear God in heaven, that was one of the best hours of television I've
    > ever seen.  I'm still stunned.
    >
    > Wow.
    >
    > JMS, I'm going to shut up before my drool gets all over the carpet.
    
    
    And, having already seen a tape of this, I have to aggree.
    
    PeterT
    
    ps.  If you go the 2 VCR route, make sure you have the GOOD one taping
    B5!

    Re .35
    
    Why not set your VCR to tape B5, watch Space, then watch your B5 tape
    at 9, as soon as B5 is done? If Space starts on time, then you can
    watch B5 as it's taping.
    
    -Eric
    

    Of course, the 2nd television is in my daughters' room and they
    like Lois & Clark.
    
    I suppose B5 it is, and Space will have to wait for the reruns.
    Ironically, I won a 20" Zenith television in a Shop & Save drawing
    in their video department a couple weeks ago, but I've run out
    of rooms to put these things in.  I gave it to my mother-in-law
    (worth about 1000 brownie points).
    _Marty

    Space wasn't on last weekend (10/28), and I thought the week before was
    the weakest episode so far. The one coming up this weekend looks
    interesting from the preview...but then B5 this weekend looks awesome too!
    
    -Eric

>    Space wasn't on last weekend (10/28), and I thought the week before was
>    the weakest episode so far. The one coming up this weekend looks
>    interesting from the preview...but then B5 this weekend looks awesome too!

November is a ratings sweeps month, so the networks save their best (looking)
episodes until November (and February and May, also sweeps months).
October features the early season repeats, both in preparation for sweeps 
and to distribute their repeats more evenly through the year.

- tom]

This week's episode opened with a quote from John Wilkes Booth: "Tell my mother
I died for my country. I did what I thought was best." Then it shows an assassin
running up to the head of the UN and shooting him point blank.

Very eerie. Vansen says, "We can travel faster than light and control the
weather, but nothing ever changes." That's why it makes a plausible story and
real news in the same week. And I *did* see ads for this before Rabin was shot.
I wonder if Fox considered pulling the episode.

        At least one local Boston DJ commented on FOX's promo for
        "Above the Law" and its macabre juxtaposition to what *really*
        happens when someone decides to go that route.

"Above the Law" is on WLVI (WB56) tonight, not Fox.

   Oops!  My brain slipped a sprocket.  Regardless, the timing was
   less than ideal.

    I noticed on the FAQ section of the S:AAB web page that the computer
    animation is done on Digital Alphas and Pentium PCs.
    
    -Eric
    

Most likely Digital Alphas running NT and using LightWave (I think that's the
3D graphics package)  Babylon 5 also uses DEC Alpha's. I don't know if this
is on the FAQ for them, but this was mentioned a while back in the news
group and the way they spelled it (something like DECK Alpha) caused me
to follow up and query.  The person reporting this was not directly 
involved with the graphics, but I've since seen it confirmed by someone
who is.

PeterT

    The only problem I have with this show, is that it keeps getting lost.
    
    It has only been shown here, in the Toronto area once in three weeks, what
    gives, are they going to drop it? 
    
    
    joan 

    
    
    the show is in its 3rd week here in the UK on SKY and I just love it!
    
    Did anyone notice the F18 jets in the pilot episode?
    
    Chris
    :)

    Re .45,.46 Did anyone catch the latest DVN? the one done at HLO? They
    mentioned Space Above and Beyond in one of the promo interviews before
    Palmer spoke, basically saying that they did the effects on Alphas.
    
    I read in TV Guide a few months ago that in the 18-40(2?) age range,
    male, that SA&B was doing better than 60 minutes in the ratings, and
    was doing better than both ST:Voyager and DS9.
    
    This is probably one of my favorite shows on TV (this and B5). The
    character stories are much better done than on any other SF show
    (Who Monitors the Birds?, The Angriest Angel, and especially Dear
    Earth coming to mind). The sets and uniforms have a realistic and
    gritty look to them. A lot of the plots are really good, though I'm
    sure a lot of them are pretty classic war drama plot elements. On an
    individual episode basis, I like SA&B better than B5 on average, though
    that comparison isn't fair since B5 has a larger scale story (5 year
    story arc).
    
    Anyone recognize what tank they used to make Pearly in the latest
    episode? I think its a redressed M113, but I'm not sure. I finally
    recognized what they made the M590s from (redressed Mini 14s...from a
    closeup of the charging handle and a closeup of the magazine in a
    different episode). I think the pistols are either redressed Glocks or
    Sigmas (from the square end of the slide), though of these 2, Glocks
    are probably more common in Hollywood.
    
    Oh well, I have rambled enough. I wish they'd air the episodes a bit
    more regularly...I think its pre-empted again this weekend!
    
    -Eric
    

    Anyone else notice something familiar about the opening music in the
    episode with West's brother? its right when they had the Stephen Crane
    quote in the opening scene. The drums and the opening phrase sounded
    exactly like the opening music to Apollo 13. Was this because they were
    copying it, or are the opening notes from any traditional sources (i.e.
    military music etc?)?
    
    -Eric
    

    
    
    re -1
    
    we haven't got that far in the UK :(
    
    still at episode 3.
    
    Episode 4 this week is about Coop's Invitro relative having to 
    be sacrificed due to power loss in the ship.
    
    Chris
    :)

    Hi,
    
    here in Holland we are a bit ahead of the UK (in S:AAB terms, no
    offense ;-)). Yesterday I saw an episode where Shane Vansen found an
    old sweetheart, who now served for the 35th.
    
    The opening was different - whereas it was music and lots of spaceships
    in the past, it now featured a monologue by McQueen - more like a bit
    of background to the series. I guess this is the start of a "new
    series".
    
    I like S:AAB.
    
    And Shane Vansen ;-)
    
    Andr� ;^)

    Re .52
    
    I think in the US, the Fox network did a mid season ad campaign, aimed
    at getting new viewers. One series of ads claimed something like "There
    has never been a better time to get into Space". I believe the new
    opening aired the week of that ad. The new opening explains the
    background where the old opening just showed action scenes and music. I
    believe this was so that viewers tuning in for the first time wouldn't
    be lost. The new opening is still considered to be the same season. I
    think there was one more episode which used the old opening, but
    they've stuck with the new one since.
    
    -Eric
    

    Here it is a very hit and miss series, for a while we had a show every
    week, then, a two week miss, one show, then another two week miss.
    I don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it but it gets
    very hard to get interested in a show that keeps vanishing.
    
    
    BTW I have liked what I have seen so far. 
    
    joan

Space: is getting pretty bad ratings.  Although I enjoy watching it a great
deal, I do not expect it to survive for very long.  Note that Fox is airing
a new episode right before X Files this Friday.  I believe it's a last ditch
effort to attract X File fans to Space:.

-Patrick

    
    	But that doesn't do much for us "Sliders" fans.
    

    I, too, enjoy/watch Space, but I'm getting a little bored with it's
    highly episodic slant. Guess I'm getting spoiled by B5; I want to see
    more of a story unfold, rather than largely standalone episodes.
    
    It is the standalone/episodic nature of Sliders that turns me off.
    
    Conversly, I liked VR:5 and Earth 2 for their story-telling nature.
    
    Space has great production quality, but they need to progress the story.
    
    Dave

    
    	A couple shows that might interest you, then:
    
    	"Beverly Hills, 90210"
    	"Melrose Place"
    
    	Both of these series are on-going, and continue a reasonable
    	fluent storyline from week to week.
    

    re .55
    
    Its ratings must have dropped sharply in recent weeks (not surprising,
    since they've been showing new episodes only very sporadically). A few
    months ago, a TV guide article said that Space was doing better than
    DS9 and Voyager (not that they're doing particularly well), and was
    the only show in the Sunday 7pm time slot that was doing respectably
    against the top rated 60 Minutes (it had it beat for males aged
    18 to 40-something (forgot the exact number)). However, they did also
    point out that while it was doing respectably for an SF show (SF has
    never done well ratings-wise on TV, not even Star Trek, compared to
    mainstream shows like Friends or MP), its high price tag was not making 
    it cost effective. I heard that Space cost almost $2 million per
    episode (ST:TNG came in around $1 million per episode).
    
    Also, in terms of ratings, B5 fans in the Boston area (I saw a few one 
    reply) should check out the news on the Babylon 5 notesfile: WSBK
    is considering not renewing B5 after this season due to poor ratings
    locally. No decision has been made yet, but details are in that
    notesfile (ERMTRD::BABYLON5 Note 114).
    
    As far as its episodic nature, while Space may not have the 5 year
    story arc of B5, there are some ongoing events (i.e. Operation
    Roundhammer was mentioned not only in a 2 parter, but also referred to
    in a later episode). However, the show follows a squad of marines, who
    are very low level...they don't get to see much of the "big picture",
    and subsequently, neither do we. At least some of the episodes are
    sequential, in that they refer to events which occurred or revealed in
    earlier episodes, and I believe I read that Wong and Morgan did have some 
    bigger plots in mind. I think they intended to reveal them X-Files 
    style...there's some kind of conspiracy going on, but its kept a mystery. 
    
    Oh well, there's definitely room for improvement. I hope this show
    doesn't die before they have a chance to improve/develop it further, as
    its one of my favorites (that and B5).
    
    -Eric
    
    -Eric

    I remember reading, I think it was in a TV Guide, an interview with
    Wong indicating they were constrained by the 7:00 PM Sunday slot
    from doing/telling the story they _wanted_ to, due to family viewing
    guidelines. However, their success against 60 Minutes was making
    the execs reluctant to try a differant slot. Perhaps good ratings
    from this Friday's pre-"X-Files" special will free the reins...
    
    Dave

    There is a Save Space campaign going on. The network is currently
    making decisions on renewals, and the fate of Space has not been
    decided yet, but depends on viewer support as I believe its on the
    borderline in terms of cost vs ratings.
    
    Information on the campaign is available at:
    
    http://webpages.marshall.edu/~ward11/savesaab.html
    
    This is not the URL I used to access it, but the page gave this URL as
    they had changed to this one recently. It gives info on the show, as
    well as addresses and recommendations for letter-writing.
    
    -Eric
    

    Spoiler Warning for episodes: R&R and Stardust (?)
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Spoilers Follow:
    
    
    	Hey what do you think about the 2 X-Files Tie-ins? First they had
    David Duchovny show up as an AI and then they hint that we know (or at
    least some high ups know) that the Chigs already know the Navajo
    language (also used in WWII for code, and to encode certain
    alien-related documents in the X-Files).  Also, their mission was code
    named for a Navajo word for "Alien Gods" which I think we may have seen
    in the X-Files as well. Add to that some earlier hints that some people
    in the government or Aerotech already knew of the aliens before the
    initial attacks on Tellus and Vesta and we may have an extension of the
    alien/government conspiracy started in the X-Files. Or am I just
    starting to see conspiracies everywhere?
    
    Another minor tie in...one of the guest characters in a recent X-files
    episode was wearing a Space: Above and Beyond T-shirt.
    
    -Eric

    I just got word that the fate of Space: Above and Beyond will be decided 
    on May 15th. Below is an email address for Fox and the relevant contact 
    names. They are basically looking for positive fan response as a deciding
    factor so fan mail will help its chances for renewal.

[email protected]

Mr. Rupert Murdoch                                       
Mr. John Matoian (be sure to check your spelling on this)
Mr. Bill Coveny
MJ Lavacarre

Paper mail has more leverage, but is less likely to get there before the 15th 
(though enough paper mail may cause them to reconsider if they cancel). Snail 
mail address is:

John Matoian
President, Fox Entertainment Group
Fox Broadcasting Company
PO Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213 

-Eric

PS they will be airing the last 2 new episodes on 5/26 and 6/2, a 2 parter.


    

    Fox has decided not to renew Space Above and Beyond. However, as they
    have opted to air the rest of this season and broadcast reruns over the
    summer, it means they will continue to monitor the ratings, and if it
    does well enough, might be brought back if one of their new fall shows
    flops.
    
    This will only happen if people continue to write Fox to save Space
    (see previous reply for addresses).
    
    -Eric
    

    re .64
    
    Another strategy might be to ensure that one of their new fall shows
    flops. (-:

    .64,.65
    
    based on the latest information from the S:AAB web site, the only way
    to save the show is snail mail received by FOX before June 24th. At
    that time, the contracts of the cast and  crew expire and the sets
    will be torn down.
    
    The information from the site (maintained by Fox) indicated that
    postcards and emails are thrown out, but that paper letters are
    read and are taken to represent 10,000 viewers.
    
    -Eric
    

    
    
    
    hmmm oh well.... I did try the e-mail thing! :(

    The last two episodes were excellant, though I'm really intruiged 
    as to what happens to the members they 'left behind'. The guy in
    the cargo pod has to be dead, but maybe the two women landed ok...
    
    Dave

    Re .68
    
    Spoiler follows:
    
    
    
    I re-watched my tapes of that episode and some earlier ones and found
    that even Paul Wang may have a remote chance of survival.
    
    Watching other footage of the ISSCV cargo pods, I noticed that the pod
    is actually made up of distinct sections connected by narrower airlock
    sections. Also in some other interior shots some sections of the cargo
    pod are separated by mini-airlocks. The section with the side guns is
    the foremost section. In the scene on the last episode, the wreckage of
    the Chig fighter hit the midsection, causing an explosion. It was hard
    to tell, but it looked like the forward section was blown away from the
    rest of the pod fairly intact.
    
    I know its really stretching it, but they could even bring him back. It
    will be really depressing if Space isn't brought back in some way shape
    or form (most likely possibilities now are as a mid season replacement
    or a series of TV-movies).
    
    -Eric
     

    
    
    we're just past " The Angriest Angel" here in the UK.
    
    Chris
    :)

    I'm looking for tapes of the following episodes:
    
    Eyes
    Stay With The Dead
    
    Please let me know if you have tapes I can borrow, or if you can make
    a copy. I had both of these, but accidentally taped them over.
    
    I can be reached at MILKWY::REN and am located in Marlboro,
    Massachusetts.

    Fox has decided not only to cancel S:AAB, but also to stop showing
    reruns after this sunday (6/30) at 7pm in the US. The episode to be
    aired is "The Angriest Angel" an excellent episode focusing on McQueen.
    Fox had originally planned to air reruns throughout the summer.
    
    The campaign to save the show still continues...
    
    -Eric
    

    I have no idea what they plan for the show up here, as they keep
    missing weeks at a time.
    To-night they showed the second half of a two parter, but they did not show
    the first part last week.
    Two weeks ago they showed a Seaquest episode instead.
    With the way they have run the show here, it will be very hard to get
    people in this neck of the woods to push for it to stay on, as we never
    see enough episodes to hold our interest.
    Just as I would begin to get used to the people in it, it would
    disappear for two or three weeks, when it came back I was always left
    with the feeling I had missed something.
    
    joan

    .73 Actually,  Fox had the same problem airing it themselves here.
    During NFL Football season, S:AAB was delayed by as much as an hour,
    making it difficult for those of us who wanted to tape it so we could
    watch it later. In addition, they pre-empted and moved it around
    constantly, without much notification. I know die-hard fans who missed
    several episodes, due to the shifting scheduling...once they moved it
    to friday, and immediately followed with another, concluding episode on
    saturday. At least once, it aired on a wednesday. It was as if Fox was
    trying to get low ratings so they could kill the show!
    
    -Eric
    

    Re: moving around the show
    
    same thing in Europe... after seeing the show disappear from its monday
    night timeslot about 3 months ago, I re-discovered it in the TV-guide
    for airing on sunday 6pm. Good episode about recreation station
    Bacchus. Let's see if they broadcast it next week as well.
    
    Any news on the save-S:AAB campaign?
    
    Andr� ;^)
    
    P.S. Anyone wants go through the hassle of sending a S:AAB T-shirt to
    Europe? Size XXL please! ;-)

    
    
    Here in the UK, the schedule has been un-interrupted on SKY 1.
    This show will likely live on in re-runs. Maybe on the Sci-fi channel
    and Sky.
    
    Perhaps that is the better venue for it.
    
    Chris
    :)

    Re .75
    
    No real news on the save S:AAB, but there have been some rumors
    (unsubstantiated) from Fox that they are considering it as a possible
    replacement show. This would depend on keeping up the level of viewer
    support.
    
    Anyone interested in saving the show should write to:
    
    Mr John Matoian
    President, Fox Entertainment Group
    Fox Broadcasting Company
    PO Box 900
    Beverly Hills, CA 90213
    
    and to
    
    Mr Chase Carey
    Chairman, CEO
    Fox Broadcasting Network
    PO Box 900
    Beverly Hills, CA 90213
    
    As for T-shirts. I'm not sure where one would get them. I'd get one if
    I knew how. If you have web access, you could always look on altavista.
    Maybe you can find some info there.
    
    -Eric