Conference noted::sf

    Strictly speaking, it is impossible to tell how advanced a visitor
    would have to be.  To know that, we would have to know how far we
    ourselves are from star-travel.  There are some tantalizing bits of FTL
    physics turning up in quantum mechanics now, but they remain jsut
    tantalizing and may come to nothing.
    
    However, one can always speculate, which is what you started the topic
    for, right?
    
    I find it impossible to believe they wouldn't be at least *somewhat*
    advanced over us in terms of physics or technology, just because they
    have the starships and we don't.  It certainly is not necessary, as far
    as we can tell now, to suppose they are *enormously* advanced.  They
    could even be behind in some ways.  We might, for instance, have better
    bio-technology or better cybernetics than they.
    
    We certainly don't need to suppose that they are a great deal smarter
    than we are.  They are, after all, another species.  It would probably
    be very difficult to compare our intelligences.  It's hard enough to
    make the comparison even among humans.  They might have a lower average
    intelligence, but a flatter distribution of it; more idiots but also
    more geniuses.  They might not be very bright but have tremenous
    perseverance.  They might not have invented starships for themselves,
    but have been given the plans by someone else.  They might have strange
    (to us) mental strengths and deficits -- e.g. a race of dyslexics with
    eidetic memories.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    There's a story (title anyone?) in which the aliens are human,
    more or less, but have an average IQ of 60.  They've just been
    working on technology for a long time, and have a large enough
    population that they have as many (or more) geniuses as we do.
    
    There's another ("That damned legwork"?) in which aliens are
    smarter but rely only on inspiration--they are beaten by tedious,
    grinding police procedure.
    
    There's another ("Anything you can do") about a species with
    eiditic memory and no writing (which has interesting and believable
    results: the aliens are full of inaccurate ideas in which they
    have utter confidence--individually perfect memory is no good 
    if the transfer from mind to mind during education is imperfect!).
    
    I find it easy to credit that a patient, less aggressive species
    might well use a few million years' head start to be the aliens
    that discover us rather than the other way around.  It's a little
    harder for me to imagine that a smarter species would evolve 
    (though it might be made), as once you can make tools you start
    evolving socially so quickly that biological evolution has little
    impact--thus, the increase in the brain size of our ancestors 
    from 400 cc to 2000 cc in one million years is considered one of
    the fastest evolutionary changes ever (biological pace), while
    humans have gone from stick-and-stone hunters and gatherers to 
    space travel in only ten to twelve thousand years (cultural pace).
    
    The "von Neuman space probe" argument is germane here: even using
    sub-light travel, if we ever start being able to travel using
    local (non-Earth-based) resources, human-known space will become
    a sphere expanding at our rate of travel.  A million years is not
    long in terms of evolution, but sub-light travel in that time
    would still cover a good chunk of a spiral arm.
    
    Of course, we seem to be closer to direct manipulation of our own
    genes than to interstellar travel at the moment; a species that
    consciously manipulates its own intelligence could quite well be
    far smarter than we are.  But what does "smarter" mean?
    
    		-John Bishop

One of the stories I liked was the all the aliens in the galaxy discovered
teleportation in their equivalent to the 1600s.  They then go on raiding
parties to other worlds and never advance technologicly much beyond that.

But we earthers due to what ever reasons fail to discover it.  Imagine the
aliens suprise when they end up on Earth early next century and come out
with "muskets" and "arrows" and face tanks, automatic weapons, etc. :-)

    
    Christopher Anvil wrote "Pandora's Planet" (and a sequel, too, I think)
    in which the invading aliens were less bright than humanity. And Poul
    Anderson wrote "High Crusade" in which some medieval Brits, just about
    to leave for a crusade, take over a spaceship and embark with the aim
    of civilizing the galaxy.
    
    Both very entertaining and highly recommended.
    
    JP

    On the flip side of .3 and .4, Poul Anderson wrote a disconcerting
    short story in which *we* invent starflight in the next few centuries,
    go exploring, and the first aliens we meet are obviously *much*
    brighter than we are.  They are, however, living at a New Stone Age
    level of technology, simply because they are relatively young when we
    meet.  It is clear to the humans that, just by landing in a spaceship
    and walking around talking to these people (who learn our languages
    *very* fast), we have given them all the data they need to surpass us
    in a century or so.  The contacters then wonder what they ought to do,
    including the grizzly possibility of nuking this particular village off
    the planet.  In the end, they decide to take the reverse course and
    give the natives floods of data about Earth.  Yes, they will be
    surpassing us in a matter of decades, but they will have become
    thoroughly aculturated to Earth culture, which they will doubtless take
    to heights we could never have done.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    One of the difficulties the human race is facing is that we have
    advanced technologically, much faster than we have advanced, morally. 
    Like it or not, humankind is still stuck in a pack-territorialism
    mentality in which like tribes (races, religions, nations) defend their
    territory and pack aggressively and mercilessly, seek to expand their
    territories and increase the size and strength of their packs, at an
    alarming rate and using technology that makes it altogether too easy to
    do so.  At the same time, we have not advanced intellectually and 
    morally far enough to realize that unrestricted expansion of population
    and territory cannot continue without destroying the territory and
    creating an overpopulation problem which may wipe out the pack.
    
    What would be interesting to see is a book about a race that developed
    tech faster even than we did, but had the same failure in moral
    development, leading to a marauding race of spcae travellers who have
    long since left their home planet behind, a scorched barren ruin, and
    travel from world to world exploiting resources and expanding their
    territory of scorched, barren worlds.  The struggle against such a
    race would teach humanity the lessons it needs to learn to pass on to
    the next moral terrace.
    
    I should think that a race, even if it chanced upon FTL travel, would
    develop tremendous technology as spin-off tech from the initial
    discovery, i.e.   If this is true, then that must also be true, and so
    on.  In any event, it would take many terran years to develop a vehicle
    that could survive the rigors of FTL travel even should the proper
    drive system become available.  The most difficult problem being how to
    protect the occupants and ship and drive system, etc, from flashing to
    z particles when raised to FTL energies?  During the long and arduous
    R+D period, technology would have to advance remarkably before a
    starship could actually be launched.
    
    Andrew
    

    
    .6 reminds me of a short story whose title and author escape me. It was
    written when we were deep in the cold war. Aliens visit the earth and
    take the protagonist for a ride back to their home system. Protagonist
    alternates between total funk about the chances of the earth escaping a
    nuclear holocaust and waxing lyrical about the opportunity to learn
    from an advanced race that must surely have succeeded at said avoidance.
    
    As they emerge from FTL above the alien's home planet, Protagonist is
    decrying humanity's use of bombs against the Japanese, the prevalence
    of nuclear testing, nuclear proliferation, etc. However, the appearance
    of the aliens' home planet stops him cold -- it is obvious that the
    planet has experienced several nuclear wars. Host alien says, "We want
    to learn how you people have managed to do so well at avoiding nuclear
    war."
    
    JP
    

    I remember that one - was it James H Schmitz?  Also sounds like the
    plot of "This Island Earth".
    
    Richard
    

    On the other hand, there have been stories which explore the 
    possibility that FTL would lead to technological stagnation or
    regression:
    
    1.	Invent FTL;
    
    2.	Expand, finding lots of habitable planets (assumption is that
    	such planets exist);
    
    3.	Lose all technology beyond simple metal space ships and FTL:
    
    	o No need for fancy air/water management in ships--they are
    	  never away from a planet long enough,
    
    	o No need for any research--too busy exploiting the Galaxy,
    
    	o No need for fancy education--any village can put together
    	  a space ship,
    
    	o Old home planet is depopulated as everyone leaves for 
    	  new planets.
    
    The historical fact is that colonies and frontiers don't put a lot
    of money into research or maintaining high culture or technology;
    If the whole culture takes on a "frontier" personality, FTL could
    destroy the culture that created it.
    
    		-John Bishop

    Re .9:
    
    I can believe that FTL would cause *stagnation* of the sort you describe,
    but it seems unlikely that the starfaring culture would *lose*
    technology to any great degree, since you'd need to keep up the
    technical level necessary to make and fix starships.
    
    Also, given the current state of knowledge in biology, I think that,
    while a starfaring culture might stagnate on the physical sciences,
    they might have lots of incentive for advancement in the life sciences
    and their technologies.  The most exploitable planets will be the ones
    with native life -- the more advanced, the better, at least until it
    comes near to your own level.  The frontier starfarers will have to
    learn how to settle on, or at least harvest and hunt on, a planet with 
    an alien biochemistry.  That's very likely to require sophisticated
    biology and bio-tech for adequate exploitation, and even more so for
    competitive exploitation.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    That depends: if all life on planets is related (via
    some sort of seeding process), then less is required
    to fit in; if it's not, then more is required.
    
    I'd imagine that most people would prefer terraforming
    to co-existence, barring the presence of a local intelligent
    species to enslave.  It's a lot easier to replace simple
    things like mosses with our plants--going "uphill" is
    harder.
    
    There was that story about aliens who invented FTL and 
    found that the Galaxy was empty--so they seeded likely
    planets with bacteria and waited a few billion years...
    
    		-John Bishop

    Another reply for a separate topic: what is the level
    of technology required for space flight?
    
    Well, if you had a "intertial" planet-to-space system
    (e.g. a magic box that doesn't require megatons of fuel
    and high accellerations), and a fast FTL planet-to-planet
    drive, you might be able to get away with an airtight
    wooden box with a few windows.
    
    It's the high accellerations and long voyages that make
    complex technology neccessary.  A one-day trip doesn't
    require water and food recycling, nor special air systems
    if the box is big enough.
    
    Where the magic boxes come from is a different matter.
    
    	-John Bishop

    Re .11:
    
    Terraforming a whole planet takes either lots of time or very heavy-duty
    technology.  Terraforming patches of it, farmlot at a time, might be a
    complex battle, since you'd be trying to oust native plants and soil
    organisms from their native habitat and substitute your alien ones.  Of
    course, as recent history (like rabbits in Australia or gypsy moths in
    America) show, alien organisms can sometimes flourish.  But that's
    usually a lucky species here and there.  And we're talking a very
    different degree of alienness.
    
    Also, if all you do with another planet is terraform bits of it and
    plow them up, you are basically doing nothing but make very expensive
    duplicates of home environs and ignoring the unique native organisms
    that could be very valuable.  But determining that value requires some
    kind of research.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Concerning how different the alien biology might be:
    
    Baring seeding operations by unknown Elder Races, there is no known
    reason to suppose alien organisms -- even on very Earthlike planets --
    would use the same amino acids as Terran organisms, or that the amino
    acids or sugars would have the same handedness.  Earth uses
    right-handed sugars and left-handed amino acids.  It appears to have
    been a 50-50 toss-up.  If one or both sets of chemicals has different
    handedness, the organisms of the two biospheres would be much less
    nourishing to each other than they might otherwise be.
    
    Settlers would probably be able to get some nourishment from local life
    forms, but would have to supplement their diet with imported or
    synthesized ingredients.  On the flip side, local parasites and
    diseases almost certainly will ignore Terran settlers and their
    livestock.
    
    Then there's allergies and similar reactions to alien biochemicals.  At
    the moment, allergic reactions to Earthly biochemicals are poorly
    understood.  Reactions to alien ones must be purely conjectural.  It
    could be almost always nil, or frequently ferocious, or a patchwork of
    the two.  On the flip side, surprising reactions to alien biochemicals
    are a likely basis for export goods.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Colonization attempt would likely involve multiple waves of explorers
    in the ftl age.
    
    Probes  unmanned probes would enter orbit and record data about the
    planet, including atmospheric info, temps, gravity fields, population
    if any, etc.  If the probe finds it mostly safe, it would enter orbit
    and take a closer look, gathering more data.
    
    Scout teams  teams made up of a combination of scientific and military
    personnel would land on a perspective planet to cautiously explore it.
    
    First contact teams... diplomatic and intelligence personel travel to
    an inhabited planet to establish contact given that the natives have
    been observed by scout teams, to be non-hostile and of sufficient tech
    level to bother.
    
    Military occupation force in the case of a hostile planet ( either low
    intelligent hostile fauna or high intelligent populations. )  Mission
    would be to secure the planet or a defensible portion of it for further
    exploration, etc.
    
    Planetary Science Teams...spread out across planet to observe and
    catalogue flora and fauna, to collect observations and info, synthesize
    it into a colonization viability study, and develop a first level plan
    for colonization.
    
    Bureacracy  takes Planetary Science teams recommendation, submits it to
    The Commercial Exploitation Commission which goes over the plan for
    possible commercial usefullnes,  develops it's own plan, submits to
    Bureaucracy which synthesizes the two plans into one and puts together
    a commission for developing a pilot colonization plan.   
    		By this time, the info on the new planet has leaked from
    the government to business which immediately starts it's own plans and
    sends squatter teams to begin mining and other resource exploitation
    programs.   By the time the government develops it's plan it needs to
    fight for space on the planet with various corporate entities and
    pirate operations
    
    Assuming the government plan goes cleanly and without a leak however,
    the next logical step would be a small pilot colony of scientists to do
    long term studies etc.
    
    Full colonization    Colony ships land and begin to set up full size
    settlements, etc.
    
    All this would be simultaneous with the exploration of the surrounding
    systems to detect possible hostiles in the area as well as neighboring
    planets which might also be exploitable.
    
    There are good opportunities for stories at all of these stages.  And
    there are many variations available on the theme.  Colonial exploration
    is a really complex topic with many, many variables.
    
    You need to take into account the possibility of many threats.
    
    Atmosphere which is corrosive or at high pressure or low pressure
    destructive weather systems and patterns
    seasonal variation
    gravity level
    ambient radiation levels and types, solar radiation
    microbiological threats
    chemical/ biochemical threats
    hostile flora or fauna
    intelligent populations
    geological stability
    etc, etc, etc.
    
    Lots of fun
    
    Andrew
    

The big difference between space explaoration and the frontier busting of our
past is the limited access to transportation. The vast expense makes it, so far,
unlikely that private business and privateers would be out scouting planets.
If this was true of all FTL societies then I would see the scenerio in -1 as
being true.

However, if FTL became accessible to the masses, just as burros and equipment
were to the 1850's gold miners. Then all bets are off. UNless this was a very
"enlightened" society we would be just plunder to had. And as the conquistatdors
proved to the INCAs, a slight technological advantage combined with a surprise
entrance is enough to devastate a society. liesl

    Another possibility is that a species (human or other) gets FTL
    and the technology to make large space habitats (O'Neil type, 
    built from in-space resources), or "Moon-colony" type places.
    
    Then you get a wave of settlement in this and remote systems that
    completely ignores the "Earth-like" planets: the settlers looks for
    asteroid belts and small, airless planets or moons.
    
    The result is human settlement in the millions in systems where
    the Earth-like planets might have undisturbed alien life.
    
    (As an aside, how do we know that _our_ asteroid belt has not
    been colonized from outside?  There's a story in that!)
    
    		-John Bishop

    
    FTL as an organized colonization process... Nah!
    
    the US  (aka the New world) was opened primarily by business people
    intent on making a profit.  As such, the process was quite chaotic and
    sporadic.... two steps forward, one step back...
    
    
    Jamd

    A crucial parameter here is how much it costs to colonize:
    I've read studies (by that O'Neil group) that a typical
    colonist of the New World needed about one year's average
    income to fund transport and goods.  That's achievable on an
    individual basis.  If colonization requires ten year's income
    per person, it's not, but business might fund colonies if
    there was a profit involved.  At a hundred or thousand
    year's income per person, maybe only governments and large
    companies will get involved--and they will insist on organization.
    
    The O'Neil group's goal was to find ways to reduce the cost
    of putting people into a space colony from today's price
    (about a thousand year's income) to the individual barrier
    of one year's income.
    
    One of the striking things about the colonization of the
    New World is the amazing death rate of the early colonies
    (generally two thirds die in the first year!).  While some
    of this is due to incredible disorganization (e.g. landing
    in the winter with no supplies), it tells us clearly that 
    people are willing to take immense risks at immense cost
    if they think they might achieve a highly valued goal.
    
    		-John Bishop

    You think they had the opportunity to make an informed decision about
    the risks?  And a lot of them had good reason to want to get away from
    the Old World....
    
    Richard

    Having just visited Plymouth MA in January, I can attest to the fact
    that one can easily starve to death there in winter.  I had to drive
    for MILES to find an open restuarant :^)