Conference noted::sf

    Yes.  The Sheraton-Boston (the largest of our hotels; the one
    connected to the Hynes Auditorium) booked in someone else ($$$)
    for Labor Day weekend.  They are not willing to give us a
    non-holiday weekend, because that would cut into their businessmen
    business.
    
    We are holding brainstorming sessions this weekend at Boskone.  (You
    all are welcome to attend.)  If we can't figure out a way to hold a
    NON-traditional worldcon in Boston in 1998, we'll fold the bid.
    
    						Ann B.

    I hope you find an alternative (Actually, I was hoping you would have
    found an alternative out of choice.  If the bid had been for the Hines
    again, I would have voted "None of the Above">.
    
    
    tom

    
    Keep us upadated. Thanks.
    
    jw

    Is there any new news on this.  As a pre-supporter, I'm kind of
    concerned.

    There will be an open meeting tomorrow night (7:30) in Somerville.
    (I'll give directions if anyone is interested in coming.  I'll be
    there.)
    
    From what Peggy Thokar said (in the two minutes I had to talk to her
    after I arrived very late at the Boskone debriefing on Sunday), there
    is at least one contingent that is digging in and looking into the
    costs of bus transport from all the other hotels in the area, and
    other stuff.
    
    		*		*		*		*
    
    We have a committee APA� that we scheduled after getting the bad news.
    All the contributors agreed on the facts. (!)  The split boils down
    to Is the glass half-full or half-empty?  I.e., how do potential
    attendees feel about scattered hotels, and using con buses, subways,
    taxis, and shank's mare to get around?
    
    Answers please.
    
    We're still short on small meeting rooms....
    
    						Ann B.
    
    � A pre-electronic notefile, for the non-elderly, and those who
    haven't tried hands-on fanac yet.

Maybe this should be taken as a legitimate reason for reconsidering
the vote on bidding for 2001!

   Gary

    Yeah, we're considering that too (especially since the Boston Garden
    bill (finally!) passed), but *anyone* can make a classy bid for 2001.
    
    						Ann B.

    C'mon, fen.
    
    How do *you*, personally "feel about scattered hotels, and using con
    buses, subways, taxis, and shank's mare to get around"?
    
    						Ann B.

Scattered hotels in boston,

in august?

Sweaty during the day (mostly from walking).

pleasant in the evening.

cold in the wee hours of the morning.

Con buses will help, the T will be good if they really are scattered all over 
the city (which is a big minus - the park plaza to the hines is a 15 minute
walk, The cambridge hilton to the hines is a 10 minute car ride, and no easy
T...) Cabs can be usefull, but it adds up fast...

so how "scattered" is the con looking at being??  

Just in boston? no big deal.

scattered into Cambridge, easty, Southy, Brooklyne, Quincy etc...starts to be a 
real hassle...

(easty, btw is east boston, home of logan international airport. Southy is
south boston (not to be confused with the south end) which is down in the
Quincy neck of the woods...)

grins,

    
    I'd prefer to have it all in one place.  Does the new Garden/complex
    look possible?
    
    -Jody

    Jody,
    
    Yes -- but not for 1998.
    
    It is inadequate to say we are looking into bussing.  We are exploring
    ways to make bussing *fun* as well as quick and convenient.
    
    *Please* (everyone) continue entering your opinions, feelings, and
    past experience on this subject.  We need this input, and I appreciate
    your efforts in providing it very much.
    
    						Ann B.
    
    P.S.  And then there's the Big Dig.  *Sigh*

    I've been in several Westercons where the largest-selling button was
    "It's in the other hotel."
    
    Doing multiple hotels on a Westercon scale is miserable.  Doing it on a
    WorldCon level is painful.  I still haven't met up with friends I was
    supposed to have lunch with at LA Con 2.
    
    And was one of the previous noters correct in implying that even if you
    don't use the Sheraton, you will still be using the Hines?
    

Take a look at this years Westercon and Worldcon:

All the function space at Westercon is at the Red Lion (Bellevue WA), but people
will be staying in 3 different hotels.  To keep all the function space in one
hotel they are putting the Art Show and Dealers Room in the Garage of the hotel.
They are renting carpet and wall covering to make it look better, but the floor
will have a noticeable incline.

And have you seen the list of hotels for this years Worldcon, over 20 of them.

How much other space is available at neighboring hotels (the Copley
Place hotels etc.), compared to the Sheraton?  In other words, if you
had been able to get the Sheraton, what percentage of total hotel space
would they have provided?  That would be a measure of the impact of
the Sheraton bowing out.  

By the way, rumor has it that the hotel situation for Intersection
is much, much worse than I could imagine for anything at the Hynes,
with or without the Sheraton.

   Gary

    I know about the Bellevue Westercon, and the problem the multiple
    hotels would have (Which is why I worked for the Santa Clara bid), and
    am also aware of how bad the situation with hotels in turning out in
    San Francisco (Which was why I worked for the Phoenix bid [I sure can
    choose winners, can't I]).
    
    The difference in the Bellevue case, though, is that the hotels are
    next-door (or at-most a block away).  This is bad enough, but to be far
    enough away that you have to take buses is ridiculous.
    
    The fact that Glasgow will be worse does me no comfort.  I would like
    to see a time when conventions go back to doing it RIGHT as a goal
    rather than just trying to be not AS BAD as the other guy.
    
    (It is similar to the self-fulfilling prophecies about Worldcon site
    selection, which went:  Well, the last few sucked, so I better vote for
    the most-interesting city, so that if that one sucks too, I'll have
    something to do).
    
    tom

    Yes, we will have the Hynes.  No, we do not have enough *nearby*
    hotel rooms without the Sheraton.  The Sheraton provides about
    (Mind blanks.) either 900 or 1600 rooms.  Scraping together chunks
    of every other hotel in Boston gets us enough ... so that not too
    many people will have to stay in Cambridge.
    
    Thank you for this feedback!  More, please.  (I know I can't have
    heard from everyone.)  It doesn't have to be good, bad, or pure; we
    just need as much information as possible.
    
    							Ann B.
    
    P.S.  I can't imagine us agreeing to put on a "We're no worse than
    anyone else!" bid.

    
    is the Sheraton available any dates *around* labor day weekend?
    or is that a tradition it's taboo to break?
    
    -Jody
    

    Jody,
    
    Correct, the Sheraton is not available to us.  They would only accept
    us on a holiday weekend; they feel that we would cut into their
    workweek business too much if we were present on a non-holiday weekend.
    
    With more and more schools starting before Labor Day, we had already
    been aware that moving one to three weeks earlier would be pleasing
    to some of our potential members.  We found a weekend earlier in
    August when the Hynes and our major hotels were free, but the Sheraton
    refused us that weekend.  (The grounds they stated were not (in our
    opinion) valid/insurmountable, but it was clear they were saying "no,
    period", and that was that.  An sf convention means a certain amount
    of work *for the higher ups*, not just the grunts, so there just might
    be a tendancy to shy away from them, in favor of less labor-intensive
    meetings.)
    
    						Ann B.

    
    
    
    Does this mean it's decided? That Boston will still hold the Bid?
    
    I think it would be better to drawn on more resources for a better
    location and in the end, event. Withdrawing the bid and opening the
    World up again. Rather than patch..patch..patch.
    
    Boston is a popular location for the Con. The attendance is always
    HUGE. Not just a worldcon it's A WORLDCON. I'm left feeling that this
    is too big of a task. The Con's pre-members didn't vote for this.
    
    But if it's decided, this is it. Good Luck.
    
    

    No, it isn't decided.  We're trying to decide if it's even feasible
    to bid.  THEN we get to decide if we would be willing/proud/content
    to say "This is our proposal." about the result.
    
    What location did you have in mind?
    
    						Ann B.
    
    P.S.  We have stopped accepting pre-supporting memberships.

    
    
    
    .20
    
    A location in mind? None. But was just figuring that there were better
    odds of finding the right sized hotel in a different state/country.
    If the bid was reopened.
    
    This idea would probably make twice as many people upset, but is it
    possible to exchange years with another Con-Commitee.
    	
    1997 site with 1998 site or 1999. When the Sheraton is available.
    
    Probably the least reasonable idea. Requiring the other cons to
    rearrange their plans as well and cooperation that would make 
    world-peace seem feasible.
                                                 

    "the right sized hotel in a different state/country"
    
    We've searched from Montr�al to Key West.  We need facilities that
    (1) want us, (2) have adequate function space, and (3) sufficient
    hotel rooms but that (4) don't have an active fan group.
    
    Most cities have (2) but not (3).  Those that have both also have an
    active fannish community.  The outstanding exception is Atlantic City,
    which fails on (1); they can't deal well with minors.  (There is also
    an "over my dead body" attitude from fans who have actually *been* to
    Atlantic City, which I find more telling.)  The non-outstanding
    exception is Mia Mifla (Miami, for those who are not rabid Cordwainer
    Smith fans), which was not a great success last time, and which has
    acquired a far less attractive reputation since then.
    
    If we're not happy with what we can work out, sans Sheraton, in 1998,
    we'll drop back three years, and go for 2001, when the Sheraton is as
    yet unbooked.  (The APA wants it for 2002, so they're not a problem.)
    And we'll work out a first-option contract that means (shudder) we may
    have to put money down before the election in 1998.
    
    						Ann B.

    	Atlanta seemed to do well in 86.  Have you considered it?
    
    	Tracey
    

    If it comes down to a choice between lots of little hotels, but still
    use the Hines or wait 3 years for the Sheraton AND the Hines, then my
    suggestion would be C: none of the above.  I found the option of the
    Hines a big expensive Dinosaur.
    
    Admittedly, it was convenient to roam through enough corridors that you
    didn't have to go outside, but I found the corkage costs for my party to be
    prohibitive, and the inability of the Con to run a Con Suite in the
    hotel because it would compete with the Hines's snack bar to be
    insulting.  
    
    I don't expect the con committee to subsidize my meals during the
    convention, but I don't think it unreasonable, after I have plunked
    down $120 for a convention for the Con to pick up the cost of a drink
    and a few potato chips!  I remember when the DC bid blew the remainder
    of their budget on a "We lost our hotel; thanks for the pre-suppport"
    party, the food was gone in under 10 minutes.  Could it have had
    something to do with the lack of munchies elsewhere?
    
    It was somewhat annoying that the only way I was able to get a free
    drink from NorEascon III was to go to Holland!
    
    So, please, try to find somewhere besides the Hines, or think strongly
    about why you are doing this.
    
    tom
    

    "Atlanta seemed to do well in 86.  Have you considered it?"
    
    Considered what?  We are taking into consideration that Atlanta is
    considering bidding for 1998.  (I don't think that's what you meant,
    but we won't carpetbag at all, period.  Even if some group would,
    there's NO WAY they would be stupid enough to bid a city-year that
    a local group is actively bidding!)
    
    		*		*		*		*
    
    "I found the option of the Hynes a big expensive Dinosaur."
                                ^
    Welcome to Boston, home of Boston pols.  The Hynes is a pet project of
    Billy Bulger, and is run by those he favors and has contracts with others
    he favors.  If you deal with the Hynes and you want food, you deal
    with ARA, and pay $2.50 for a can of soda.  There may be an alternative
    eventually: a rebuilt Boston Garden arena complex.  However, I would bet
    money against it being an over-all better deal, financially, for anyone
    who wants to use it; it will be built in the same environment.
    
    I do not think you were given the correct story about the Con Suite.
    I know that the only space large enough for a Con Suite in the Sheraton
    was used as the Art Show.  A smaller space was used as the Den, a place
    for convention workers to rest and eat.  (Corkage in the Sheraton is
    better than in the Hynes, but only relatively.  A bag of potato chips
    for $10 is not good.)  The *only* place we had for a Con Suite was
    the Hynes, and at one can of soda and a few handfuls of potato chips
    per night per person, we are talking about $25 per person, which is
    not an insignificant fraction of the average membership.
    
    What can I say?  "If you want to run a party that isn't gold-plated,
    rent a hotel room, and violate your implicit contract with the hotel
    yourself."?  Too churlish.  We are too large and too visible to get
    away with that ourselves, and it puts us in a real bind.  And there
    is no other choice with Boston meeting space.
    
    Look, we know that food and drink in a Con Suite is a bottomless pit.
    It's always possible to add more, if we want to get rid of money.
    But a Con Suite that costs $15,000 for one can of soda for each
    attendee is Too Much, and I'm not going to apologize for not doing it.
    
    There is a *possible* alternative.  There are umpteen little
    restaurants across the street from the Hynes, and some of them are
    bound (?) to have (small) banquet rooms upstairs and in the back.  If
    we can get one or more of them to agree to <something not yet even well
    thought about>, we may have a solution that ... will cause people to
    complain about how far away and broken up the Con Suites were.
    
    						Ann B.

    	Didn't realize that Atlanta was considering bidding as well.  Just
    heard you mention looking at cities other than Boston....
    
    Tracey 
    

    Yup.  It can be really hard to figure out things from what I *don't*
    say!
    
    Even if they don't bid for 1998, we still wouldn't bid Atlanta.  The
    ill feeling it would generate would be enormous and inexcusable.  (If
    for no other reason than (if we bid it and won) it would prevent them
    from bidding for 2001, because of the geographic exclusion rule.  Serious
    faux pas.)
    
    							Ann B.

    I hear that Boston voted last night to go for the 2001 Worldcon bid. 
    Is my pre-supporting membership going to carry over?

I'm sure Ann will respond officially, but unofficially, I've received
email saying that yes, presupporting memberships will carry over (but
will be refunded on request).

I'm delighted with this decision.  Where do I sign up to help?

   Gary

    Yes, we voted (very late on Wednesday) to move to 2001.  Here is
    the on-line version I got yesterday.  (Thank you, former DECie Al
    Kent, so I didn't have to type it in from our hardcopy.)
    
    Boston in 2001
    P.O. Box 1010
    Framingham, MA 01701-0205
    
						15 May 1993
    
    Dear Supporter of Boston in '98,
    
    We're writing you to announce that Boston in '98 has become
    Boston in 2001 (the first Worldcon of the Third Millennium�) and to
    ask you for your continued support!  While we're disappointed that we
    can't bid for '98, we're excited to announce our new bid (particularly
    for such a great year!) and we think that it will be a lot of fun.
    
    We're folding our '98 bid because a mundane group (the American
    Political Science Association) has booked our main hotels for Labor Day
    weekend.  We want to emphasize that none of our facilities had made
    binding commitments to us and that APSA was willing to sign a contract
    and put down money now while we could not consider doing so until
    Labor Day, 1995.  This can happen with any facility and, in fact, is
    more likely with popular locations.
    
    Because 2001 is still a ways off, we'll be keeping our bid low-key
    for the next few years, but look for us at Worldcon in San Francisco,
    Winnipeg, and beyond!
    
    We are transferring all of our Boston in '98 pre-supporters to
    Boston in 2001.  If you'd rather not support us for 2001, please write
    us.  We'll be disappointed, but we'll refund your money.
    
    � Computer hackers to the contrary, there was no Year 0!




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% Subject: MCFI announces bid for 2001
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    Many of us worked very hard over the past two months (Not me.  I
    just handed over the budgets for Noreascon 3, and stuck with sewing,
    producing, and singing for "The Pirates of Penzance".) to come up
    with ideas to overcome the loss of the Sheraton.
    
    We found that by taking the entire Hynes we did not need any Sheraton
    function space, and that we could cut down drastically on the number
    of guards.  This information will be as useful in 2001 as in 1998.
    
    We worked out a bus transport system that (we think) would have done
    as well as any and better than most.  I think we felt that even that
    was simply not good enough.  You can only load so many buses at one
    time, and the Boston traffic and the Boston streets were not going to
    miraculously change for us.  Leslie's Lemonade Stand ("When life hands
    you a lemon, make lemonade.") came up with several ideas to make the
    split between the Hynes and the hotel area not merely palatable, but
    pleasant.  These ideas won't go away either.
    
    Mostly, I think it was that everything for 1998 was so iffy, and that
    we could all see there being more options in 2001, what with the Boston
    Garden complex, and other changes.
    
    							Ann B.

    
      >You can only load so many buses at one a time, and the Boston
      >traffic and the Boston streets were not going to miraculously
      >change for us.
    
    For 2001, that won't be a problem.  You'll have the options of
    taking the monorail, the levitrain, the slidewalk, the transporter,
    or, of course, simply jaunting.
    
        -doug