Conference noted::sf

    I have added keywords WREN and SWORD_OF_LAMB to note 442.102.  I will
    make a copy of that note and post it as the next reply.

    [copied here for reference]
    
                       <<< Note 442.102 by ACE::LARSON >>>
                         -< Does this merit a topic? >-

    re. 100
    
    GINFWMY => God is not finished with me yet.
    
    re. 101
    
    Wow!  How much space (and time) do I have.  To prefix any answer, allow
    me to say the this trilogy is, in my opinion, more complicated than the
    Foundation trilogy or LotR.  This is one of my criteria; the ability to
    create a complex plot yet not bury or confuse the reader.  The more
    complex the story yet keeping the reader, the better the skill of the
    writer.  Anyway, Martha K. Renfro (M.K. Wren) inserts more inuendos and
    subplots into this trilogy than any other major work that I have
    read, yet at no time is the reader inundated with fact or innuence.
    
    Now, to set about the task of relating the three volumes.
    
    The setting is planet earth, no longer partitioned by countries but is
    governed by a council of men.  Each 'seat' is occupied by a Family
    head.  Each family controls one or more commodities that the other
    families purchase.  You can imagine, in our day in time, a family
    controlling (owning) all transportation manufacturing, another
    electronics, another farming, another ranching, another communications,
    etc.  That is earth of the year 3400.
    
    Colonization of another solar system happened around 2800 and two
    sub-families controlled the colony.  One became strong enough to be
    awarded a seat on the council but strong opposition by one of the
    oldest chairs fought against it.  The result, around the year 3200 was
    total abandonment of the colony leaving the colonists to themselves.
    
    The story is about two brothers, Alexand and Richard deKoven Wolfe. 
    Their father is one of the most powerful men on the council.  The Wolfe
    family owns all communications on earth and the colony.  This family is
    also one of the most popular among the Fesh and the labor forces.  More
    about that later.  Meanwhile, the Wolfe family is adored by all.
    
    Because of the Wolfe's status, Alexand and Richard are afforded the
    best education possible.  Private tutors, limitless resources, and
    freedom to think for themselves.  Also, they have access to nearly all
    data in the governments library.
    
    Before going further, to explain the society, it is Feudal.  There are
    Lords, visLords, Ladies, et al.  The Fesh is a contraction of
    professional and is a social caste.  These are engineers, doctors,
    technicians, teachers, clergy, etc.  The lowest of the three orders is
    the labor force (I can't recall the title).  At this level there is no
    education except in the rarest case.  Basically they are slaves.  The
    Fesh and the laborers are owned by the ruling family.  Not to be sold,
    but may be traded or given away.
    
    The ruling family also 'owns' lesser noble families, i.e. the oldest
    son's brothers, cousins, distant relations.  In this case, Alexand is
    the oldest son, eventually Richard will serve him, along with Alexands
    uncles, cousins, ad infinitum.  Until the Age of Rights (21 years old)
    Alexand is known as a visLord along with Richard.
    
    This is all only a foundation given in the first chapter or two in the
    first book "Sword of the Lamb."  For the sake of brevity I will do a
    very short synopsis of the three books.
    
    This is a story about man vs. man, man vs. society, society vs.
    society.  It is a very logical prediction of mankind 1500 years from
    now.  In fact, throught the book the author includes essays on the
    history prior to the trilogies opening.  This history 'lesson' goes all
    the way back to the 21st century!.  The logical historical assumptions
    are so smooth and acceptable that the story is quite enjoyable.
    
    The complexity of the story dictates that even a word, or a gesture has
    significant meaning crucial to the intermediate and final climaxes. 
    Moreover, considerable thought was given to every word in the story. 
    In many cases, a glance of an eye, the feinted smile, the clothes a
    person wore, though insignificant at the time or (in the chronology of
    the story) for the next ten years, but then, zap! it is an important
    event.  Many writers do this purposely, Tolkien and Asimov do this
    well, but not to the extent and skill as Wren.  In most books, the
    reader can tell what events or objects have or will have significance. 
    In this series one cannot be so accurate.
    
    This is a story of a social system that is going downhill, much like
    the Empire in Foundation.  This is a story of a secret society, like
    the Foundation, who is working to preserve and protect the society, and
    it too is misunderstood and hunted.  This is a story of two brothers
    who find there way into the society, one as a bastard, the other as a
    dead man.  The is a story of two brothers who, because of their wisdom
    and love for the society as a whole, go against everything that they
    were brought up for and rebelled that they might preserve what they
    were brought up for.  This is a SF novel, a romance novel, an adventure
    novel, and a mystery novel all in one.  This trilogy will enthuse the
    technical person because of the development of technology throught the
    three books.
    
    I've been working on this for an hour now and I want to go home.  Any
    more questions are welcome.
    
    Oh yes, good luck in finding this series, it is quite difficult. You
    will either have to special order it, or find it in a used book store. 
    The Berkely edition is the first edition.  The jackets have raised
    embossing on them.  I don't think it was ever available in hardback, in
    fact, I know it wasn't.  I had the first edition but loaned it out and
    never returned.  I found, after a two year search, acquired another
    first edition set.  Volume one was published around 1982, V.2 in 1983
    and V.3 in 1984 me thinks.  Anyway, I got the first when it first came
    out and had to wait 10 months for the second, then 16 months for the
    third.  Boy, was I frustrated!  I was drooling hard and heavy between
    volumes.
    
    Glad you asked.
    
    David
    

    [end of copied note]

    It sounds fascinating!  I'll have to dig through our local stores 
    to find it.  I'd be interested to see how she justifies the
    existence of a society that's both feudal and  technological.  The
    two traits seem contradictory to me.   Maintaining a high 
    technological level requires a high level of general education.  
    Somebody has to fix all this machinery, and it won't be 
    illiterate serfs. Moving forward technologically means that people
    must be free to  innovate.  They must be free to think about these
    things in the  first place and free to put them into practice.  A
    rigid power  structure like feudalism would work against both
    points.  Loose  thinking is discouraged because it leads to
    rebellion, and  economic changes also shift the economic balance. 
    Notice that  feudal China had all the ingredients to start the
    Industrial  Revolution in 1100 AD, and never did.  It would have
    hurt too  many mandarins.  /jlr

    Hi
    
    What are the titles of the second and third books ?
    
    Mike
    

>    
>    What are the titles of the second and third books ?
>    

	I've read the Dutch version's but translated it would be 
something like 'Shadow of the swan'

The third title I can't remember right know although espescialy that 
one is a real thrill...

Great serie !!!

_Floris_

    I think the third book is "House of the Wolf"
    
    Joan G.
    

There is a new M. K. Wren book out in paperback, but i don't remember the
title off the top of my head.  Supposed to be a Post-Holocaust story about
two women trying to preserve the knowledge of the past in the face of
other hostile/crazed survivors (according to the jacket blurb).

								paul

I was looking for a good sci-fi that combined Christianity, so I
stopped by a used book store and picked up the first two books
of this trilogy.  Like .0, it started slow but next thing I was up
all night reading....8^)

Well, now's the hard part.  Anyone out there have the third book that
they'd like to part with?  I stopped by the used book store but
didn't see it - the owner also said the used sci-fi is hard to come by.
"They're a strange lot, they don't like to give them up after reading them."
I know I don't.

Does anyone know of used book stores in the Nashus NH - Burlington MA area
where I can check for it?  The books title is HOUSE OF WOLFE

I found the book in Nashua NH last night.
The Book's title is HOUSE of the Wolf
Now for a nice weekend....

    I put this reply in topic 442 first because I thought it was not
    related to the Phoenix Legacy trilogy.
    
>   <<< Note 442.108 by SIMON::SZETO "Simon Szeto, International Sys. Eng." >>>
>re: Note 901.7 by LABRYS::CONNELLY 
>>
>>There is a new M. K. Wren book out in paperback, but i don't remember the
>>title off the top of my head.  Supposed to be a Post-Holocaust story about
>>two women trying to preserve the knowledge of the past in the face of
>>other hostile/crazed survivors (according to the jacket blurb).
>
>  The title of this other book is _A_Gift_Upon_the_Shore_.  I picked up a
>  hard[cover copy] at a discount (clearance) price.
    
    I haven't found nor read the Phoenix Legacy trilogy.  But I wonder,
    could A Gift Upon The Shore be a very distant pre-quel?  As I said
    already in 442.108, I didn't think that the latter book was really
    science fiction.  But it's not out of the question to have this book
    create the start of the timeline for the trilogy.  Of course, it may be
    that indeed there is no connection between these two works of hers.
    
    --Simon
    

	I just finished the Phoenix Trilogy last month.
	An excellent read!!!!

	There is a part where they descride a "religious sect"
	that was located in Austraila and if I recall correctly
	it was started by 2 women.

	If interested, the Phoenix Triology can be located at the
	Book Rack (Lakeview Ave, Dracut MA -only book 1 and 2) and
	the third book cane be obtained at the used book store at
	Rich's Plaza in Nashua NH.

	I am reading Asimov's Foundation triology now but I liked
	The Phoenix much better!! (although it started slow-first
	couple of chapters)

    
    The trilogy is on my all time favourites list.  I'm amazed that it is
    so hard to find in the U.S. - yet another example of how the Pommy and
    Seppo publishing giants divided the western world between themselves.
    
    re: those who cannot get the books
    
    The editions I have here (in Oz) are paperbacks published by NEL (New
    English Library) with excellent full cover paintings.  Maybe you could
    try them for copies - get a British digit to track them down and send
    them over the pond.  It would be worth the effort.
    
    David