Conference noted::sf

    YES, YES, YES!!!!
    
    Okay, I really like Carolyn's style of political SF, but these were
    even better than the Chanur books or Downbelow_Station. There was a lot
    of background, but it definitely kept me fascinated thru the end of the
    3 books. I devoured them in a couple days.
    
    Tamzen

    	Thanks for both the question and reply.
    
    	I am about 1/3 of the the way through Betrayal right now and
    while I find the world she is building fascinating, I'm a little
    bumbed out that I still haven't found a character to I dentify with
    yet.  (My weakness in reading:  I have to like or at least feel
    for one of the major characters.  I guess that's why I despised
    the covenant books.)                   
    
    	The books been sitting on the table for a few days now.  Guess
    I'll go pick it back up again...
    
    tlh
    

    I don't think there is one character to identify with.  There are
    (in my opinion anyway) 3 characters. Justin, Grant and CIT Ari.
     This might come thru more in the latter 1/3 of the book.
    
    I guess I'll try the second book in the trilogy.  I just hope that
    it isn't as hard to start as the first one.
    
    KH

    Don't think of it as a trilogy. It really is only one book in hardcover
    that was broken rather arbitrarily into 3 paperbacks for publishing
    considerations.

    re: -3
    
    Just wait.  When Justin gets into his 30's, you'll see some characters
    to identify with!
    
    BTW, this book is must-reading for anyone who had as many questions
    about the Union as I did.  They're not the "evil empire" they seem
    in _Downbelow_Station_ and the slavers of _Serpent's_Reach_.
    
    And Resune & Ariane Emory get mentioned in the graphic novel version
    of _Gate_of_Ivrael_  (which is VERY good!)
    
    Merryl-who-is-rereading-'em-in-paperback

>    Don't think of it as a trilogy. It really is only one book in hardcover
    
    Yeah, and at $3.95 apiece they nick you for $12 for one novel in
    softcover.  How much was it in hardcover?
    
    This better be good, or at least better than _Downbelow_Station_.
    
    --Simon
    

    re .6:  If it's better than _Downbelow_Station_ it will win the
    Nebula and Hugos.

    hmmm; I picked up the hardback version at the library - with just
    3 or 4 weeks and everything else to read, I couldn't get much farther
    along than the (I guess) first 50-75 pages.  Or so it seemed.  Maybe
    one more attempt, this time after clearing _all_ reading from the
    agenda.
    
    But it did seem awfully slow and unstimulating, though..
    
    Dwight

    	It seems that those who said stick with it were right (at least
    in my case).  I read about 200-250 pages in Betrayal today and I'm raring
    to go with Rebirth and Vindication now.  They've caught my interest and
    I'll probably ram through the R and V in a  day or two.
                                             
    tlh
    

CJ Cherryh is one of the authors whose works I automatically purchase.
She also is one who has rebelled against the stricture of a trilogy 
structure and as such, does not follow the 'usual' of:

Book 1- Scenario and characters developed. Major plot thread comes to 
closure. Dangling thread left for sequel. Book can stand alone.

Book 2- Dangling thread developed into major plot theme. Plot has a 
minor closure at end, but the major theme is left relatively
unresolved. Book does not stand well on its own. 

Book 3- Resolves plot. May leave openings for future books, but not 
any prominent unresolved themes.

 The Chanur books as well as the Cyteen books do not follow this and 
are more of one big story without closure at the end of the first two 
books. As such, they tend to build more slowly, as the first book need 
not stand on its own. It takes an established author to have this 
leverage with a publisher, as they might want a lesser known author to 
have the first book as a 'trial balloon'. If the sales of the first 
book are good, then the rest of the trilogy goes forward. As such, the 
first book must be able to stand alone.

As for content, the Cyteen books explore a number of aspects of a 
relatively fundamental SF theme:

	What is a person?

        How much is due to genetic structure and how much is 
environment? What part does free will play? Cloning, genetic 
manipulation, intelligence levels, conditioned response, Skinnerian
rewards, slavery, a type of immortality, her version of
'psychohistory', right to citizenship, and a computer with high
'intelligence' all are factored in. 

As well as a bit of a murder mystery, excellent character development 
of multiple people (essential to explore the theme), additional 
development of her universe and heavy political intrigues. 

Given this the 1000 pages or so are just long enough to do justice to 
a very ambitious project. 

You've probably gotten the impression (correctly) that I enjoyed the 
books :^)

George

    re .9
    
    I am very interested inknowing what you thought of the next 2 books.
    Please let us know if it was easier to stick to than Betrayl.
    
    Thanks,
    K.

    	As I predicted, I read all of Rebirth and half of Vindication
    today. 
    
    	Thanks for the encouragement to go on.  
    
    	Back to Vindication....
    
    	tlh
    

    Great. Besides, you're not apt to have the free time in a couple of
    weeks. Right? ;-)
    
    Tamzen

    I have the hard cover and so don't know how the book is broken
    up for the paper backs.
    
    However, I found the book slow going and haven't looked at it
    in about a month. I'm stopped just after the younger man went
    to visit his father after a long time of separation.
    
    Bonnie

    	Well, I finished Vindication at (YAWN) 3:15 this morning.  
    Good Stuff.
    
    	Re: no time... As a matter of fact we're just sitting around
    timing contractions and trying to decide if the kid means it this
    time or this is just an extended bit of false labor.
           
    tlh
    

>                     <<< Note 145.12 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >>>
>    Does anybody know the derivation of "azi" in the Gehenna and Cyteen
>    stories?
    
    Yeah, I wondered about that, and the pronunciation too.  At first I
    thought it might be "ay-zee" (you know, "A Z") but then that's the
    American pronunciation.  Isn't Cherryh British?  ("Lift" for "elevator"
    and "woolgathering" for "daydreaming" led me to think so.)
    
    --Simon
    

    I sort of thought it was A.Z., maybe for artificial zygote? No, Carolyn
    Cherry (this is the real spelling of her name. Don Wolheim thought
    there would be too many jokes, so she added a silent "h" for
    publications.) is American. She lived in Baltimore for a while and now
    both she and her brother David, who's an artist, live in the Midwest.
    Edmund(something or other) Kansas, I think.

    Tamzen

    Stands for
    
    " A-Z Non-citizen classifications "
    
    from " Verbal Text From Patterns Of Growth ", between chapters 1
    & 2.
    
    Danny W.

    RE .16 & .17
    
    That's Oklahoma, not Kansas.  Carolyn has a distinct Okie twang.

    re .17:  Thanks, Tamzen.  This is only my second Cherryh novel.  She
    didn't really sound all that British to me.  I was just confused,
    that's all, by "lift" and "woolgathering" and maybe something else that
    I compartmentalized as "British words."  I suppose our British friends
    have no doubts that Cherryh is American.
    
    --Simon
    

    I'm finally through Cyteen.  When I was about ten pages from the end, I
    said to myself, Is it coming to the end here?  Did I miss something
    along the way, or did she leave a few loose ends unexplained?  Exercise
    for the reader, or threads for sequels?
    
    One big question I had at the end was:
    
    ***** SPOILER *****
    
    

  
  
  If Denys and Giraud Nyes wanted to kill Ariane Emory 2, why did they
  clone her?
  

    A reply to the question in -1:
    
    
    
    I think they only wanted to kill her after they discovered that
    they couldn't control her.  Remember, Base One had the highest acesses,
    but Denis figured that out.  Better to kill her and clone her up
    again...
    
    IMHO,
    Merryl
    

    I also finally finished the whole of cyteen after reading the
    notes here. I actually liked the later part of the book better,
    (I felt like the 'action' had finally started happening).
    
    
    
    I agree with the answer in -1. I think the Nyes had hoped
    to create an Ari Emory that was under their control - at least
    for their life time...and had no idea that she would find a
    way to gain control on her own.
    
    Bonnie

    	Also read and enjoyed. Cherryh is one of a dwindling group of
    authors whose books I will automatically purchase without checking to
    see what it's about (Arthur C. Clarke recently did a spectacular
    half-gainer off the list with 2061).
    
    	However..... I'm unsure whether I'm just disappointed the book is
    ending, or what; but her endings seem like falling off a  cliff. The
    Faded Sun Trilogy, Cuckoo's Egg, The Chanur books,and Cyteen..... She
    spends hundreds, even thousands of pages building up characters, plots,
    interwoven motive, etc. etc. Then you read:
    .... Andthisandthatandthisandthatandthisandthat'stheend.
    
    ??  
    Mike 
    

    WHY KILL ARIANE?
    
    SHE IS ONLYAN EXPERIMENTAL "AZI" TO THEM.  ONCE THEY PROVED THAT IT WAS
    POSSIBLE FOR IMORTALITY... GET RID OF THE EXPERIMENT AND USE IT FOR
    YOURSELF...BESIDES WHO KILLED THE FIRST ARINA.
    

    
    This has nothing to do with the Cyteen business, I only read one book
    by CJ that I liked, which was mentioned earlier, Cuckoo's Egg.  Maybe
    .24 answers my questions, which are, is there a sequel?  I'd like to know
    what happened to Thorn.  Is Cuckoo's Egg already a sequel to something
    else?  I'd like to understand Dunn better.  All in all, a good book,
    but I haven't been able to get into anything else of her's.  She likes
    cats, tho, doesn't she?
    
    Helen

    
     I'm currently reading "Heavy Time" and in the first few chapters
     there's a reference to Cyteen. Does anyone know if this is an
     addition to the Cyteen series or does Cherryh like to reference
     her other works just to keep people interested in her writing?
    
      This being the first book of her's that I've read (I just forgot
     to return that silly SFBC card and I'm too lazy to mail the stuff
     back) I'm wondering if I've just entered a story in the middle or
     not? So far it's got me interested and I'm still reading a chapter
     or so a night.                               - Leo
    

Leo --

"Heavy Time" is set in the same "future history" as many of Cherryh's other
sf novels, including "Cyteen".  The reference to Cyteen in this particular book
is a reference to Cyteen as capital of the Union, as opposed to a plug for
her other book(s).  It is not in itself an addition to the Cyteen series,
but rather provides another point of view (the Sol system miner's) on the
three-way conflict between the Union, the Alliance, and the Earth (actually,
the Corporations on Earth).

So, to some extent, it helps to have read the other books she's written to
understand the background to the story -- why the mining of the asteroids
is important, why the warships are being built, who and what the free merchants
are, etc.  For a fan of Cherryh, like myself, it fills in some interesting
gaps in the overall history, as well as providing some alternative "truths"
about the war;  as noted previously, "Cyteen" cast the Union in a much more
favorable light than some previous books written from the Alliance's point of
view.

With that said, "Heavy Time" stands on its own as a story.  Take it for what it
is.  If you like her writing style and/or universe, you can followup with any
number of novels by her, including Cyteen, that will round out your view of
what's going on.

 	Todd

    I am just starting the "Cyteen" trilogy, and I have a question.  Maybe
    it gets answered in the course of the story, but I'm impatient.
    
    What's the difference between an azi and a born-human, other than azi
    having been gestated in an artificial womb?  (This clearly can't be the
    crucial difference; some of the "born"-humans were also products of
    in-vitro gestation.)  Is it anything genetic?  Is it the fact that they
    are (apparently) subjected to "taping" (electronic instruction/brain-
    washing by direct cortical stimulation) from well before birth and thus
    appear to be, in some sense, programable?
    
    I've read far enough to learn that azi can "graduate" and earn fill
    citizenship.
    
    Earl Wajenberg