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Conference noted::sf

Title:Arcana Caelestia
Notice:Directory listings are in topic 2
Moderator:NETRIX::thomas
Created:Thu Dec 08 1983
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1300
Total number of notes:18728

575.0. "Zelazny" by NRPUR::MULLAN (Data, let's count the varieties) Tue Feb 16 1988 09:16

    
    Anyone know of any new books, collections, etc.. that Zelazny
    is coming out with?  What do you think of the new "Amber"
    series?  And most important (at least for me), does anyone
    have any idea when he's going to publish the third book in
    the "Madwand" series?  The first two books are _Changeling_
    and _Madwand_.  Has anyone else read these books, or am I the
    only one?
    
                                                     -mishel
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
575.1RE 575.0DICKNS::KLAESThe President of what?Tue Feb 16 1988 09:394
    	See SF Topics 97, 195, and 417.
    
    	Larry
    
575.2New BooksFSTRCK::DILLSONTue Feb 16 1988 12:455
    When I spoke to Mr. Zelazny to invite him to our convention (he
    declined for good reasons), he told me that there will be a totla
    of five books in the Amber 2 series.  We should be seeing the last
    of them in March of 1989.
    
575.3Unicorn Variations is shortsSNDCSL::SMITHWilliam P.N. (WOOKIE::) SmithTue Feb 16 1988 19:246
    Unicorn Variations wasn't bad, ISBN 0-380-70287-8
    
    For novels, Roadmarks was quite good, [0-345-25388-4], but I haven't
    read much of his other stuff, as I'm not much into fantasy...
    
    Willie
575.4Bitter EndNYOB::RICCIARDIWed Feb 17 1988 13:107
    I have read all of em and loved most of em but does anyone else
    end up throwing the Amber books at the wall when finished?  He seems
    to enjoy ending in the middle of it. 
    
    One of my  favorites....Lord Of Light.
    
    Reekin
575.5"Doorways in the SandRSTS32::WAJENBERGCelebrated ozone dwellerWed Feb 17 1988 15:2936
    While we're chatting about Zelazny in general, I'd like to mention
    "Doorways in the Sand."  It is a pleasant, funny novel in which The
    Standard Zelazny Hero actually has a slightly different personality.
    
    AMBER SPOILER

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Re .4
    
    I felt that the end of the first Amber series was somewhat over-grim,
    principally because of the death (?) of Dierdre.  If the unicorn could
    retrieve that magic jewel from the void, why couldn't she retrieve her
    own granddaughter?  They fell together, after all.
    
    Also, I noticed that as the series wore on, we spent more time in each
    novel recapping all the previous novels, and less and less seemed to
    happen in each book.
    
    Earl Wajenberg
575.6If only he wasn't so good!RSTS32::KASPERc = (pascal - training_wheels)Thu Feb 18 1988 20:3325
    
    Re: .-2
    
> does anyone else end up throwing the Amber books at the wall when finished?  
    
    Yes.  I read the first series in the SFBC edition, so I didn't really
    notice how awful the cliffhangers were -- it felt like they were
    chapter breaks.  Trumps of Doom and Blood of Amber were Really
    Obnoxious.  I've decided to wait until the second series is complete
    before reading any more.
    
    Beverly
    
    
    Re: .-1   Amber Spoiler
    
    
    
    While it would've been more cheery for the unicorn to rescue Dierdre,
    I can believe that she would've been affected more severely than the
    jewel.
    
    Actually, it wouldn't surprise me all that much for her to show up in
    the new series.  It seems like the sort of prank Zelazny is fond of.
    
575.7what else is new?OG1BA1::HYATTMon Mar 28 1988 14:146

	Besides Trumps_of_Doom and Blood_of_Amber, has anything else 
	in the new series been published?

	Mike
575.8HYDRA::PARSONS2A moose once bit my sister....Mon Mar 28 1988 19:288
    
    
    	Yes, Sign of Chaos  came out last year some time
    
    
    
    /srp
    
575.9NATASH::HYATTMon Apr 18 1988 14:066
	
	Thanks. I called a bunch of local bookstores but no one had it
	in stock.  However, I was able to order it.  The paperback 
	should be out this summer or fall.

	Mike
575.10Changeling/MadwandJACKAL::PINEAUTue Jun 14 1988 15:569
    re .0
    
    	Just wanted to let you know that at least 1 other person read
    changeling and madwand.  I thought they were great, but then I like
    everything Zelazny does.  I have a feeling we won't see the end
    of the series until after Amber II is complete.  It's frustrating,
    but better to wait than get a quick disaster.  He has a lot of loose
    ends to tie up.
    							Joe Pineau
575.11Misspoken Awful Sayings can beTIS::OLIVAWed Jul 20 1988 17:2110
    
    Ditto to .10, I read Changeling and Madwand too, about four years
    back.  Judging from current events, I wouldn't hold my breath for 
    the next one (any contradictions to this prophecy are welcome).
    
    Has anyone looked at the so called (I think) 'Alien Speedway' series
    prompted by Zelazny?  I read the first book but I didn't particularly
    care for it so I haven't looked for any of the others.
    
    Oliva
575.12Where is Amber book 9???PFLOYD::ROTHBERGHELLO?? ..mindcrime...Sun May 28 1989 15:5013
                Okay ...    it's  been  ages since Amber2 book 3.
                I've asked everywhere about the fourth, looked in
                forthcoming books, and turned up nothing.  What'd
                he do, take a break to write the 3 alien speedway
                books (which were okay, but nothing spectacular).
                I love Amber, and Corwin just HAS  to  show up in
                book 4.  I've been waiting too long for this one.
                WHERE IS IT???? :`)
                
                - Rob the megaZelaznyiac -
                
                  
575.13Authors as professorsRICKS::REDFORDCo. Conspiratorial Infernal Use OnlyMon May 29 1989 23:2925
    Didn't other people write the Alien Speedway books based on 
    Zelazny's scenario?  There seems to be this new
    marketing ploy of putting some known author's name in big letters 
    on a cover with the actual writer's name in small print at the 
    bottom.  As well as Alien Speedway, there are several robot 
    novels out that were NOT written by Asimov, but have his name 
    prominently displayed, and a series called "Venus 
    mumble" which are NOT by Arthur C. Clarke. 
    
    Maybe it's a good thing.  Although all three of these authors peaked 
    long ago, SF owes them a debt.  This gives them a lifetime 
    sinecure, a sort of tenured professorship of SF writing.  Younger 
    writers can work away like grad students in the lab while the 
    older ones are GOHs at cons and sign their names to 
    the final papers.  The older writers set the direction of 
    research (the scenario for the story or the plot outline) and the 
    younger do the actual bottle-washing and typing.  Everybody wins: 
    the young writer gets a boost in sales from the name association, 
    the older keeps his/her name before the public, and the publisher 
    gets more output from name writers without their big fees.
    
    Then again, maybe it's a sleazy ripoff of fandom by profit-mad 
    media conglomerates.
    
    /jlr
575.14OASS::MDILLSONGeneric Personal NameTue May 30 1989 11:465
    RE .12
    
    I don't know the exact publication date.  I do know that Zelazny
    had to run back to his room at Lunacon during a fire alarm to recover
    the only copy of the manuscript.
575.15Yes he didn't write A.S.POLAR::LACAILLEThere's a madness to my methodTue May 30 1989 15:115
    
    	ALIEN SPEEDWAY is a concept series thought of by Zelazny, he
    then 'hired' other to actually write the books.
    
    Charlie
575.16PFLOYD::ROTHBERGHELLO?? ..mindcrime...Wed May 31 1989 04:1015
                
                Yep, you  guys are right about AS.  I had totally
                forgotten about that  (though  I  did know at the
                time I read them ...)
                
                I WANT MY AMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                
                - Rob who is  rereading  the eight books that are
                out for the 11th time -
                
                (Well, 11th for the first  five, only the 5th for
                the last three)
                
                
575.17Next please!SUBURB::PALMERRJEarth - The Only Alien PlanetTue Jul 25 1989 14:4714
    
    Hello,
    
    	  I've just finished re-reading 'Sign of Chaos'. One scene
    sticks in my mind - where Dalt and Rinaldo (aka Luke) are having
    a 'duel'. Merlin notes that Dalt a medallion which appeared to
    bore the device of a 'Lion rending a Unicorn' - anyone care to
    speculate as to whose emblem the Lion is???

    Regards.
    
    Reggie.
    -------
    (who also CANNOT wait for the next book!!!)
575.18PFLOYD::ROTHBERGI'll house you ...Wed Jul 26 1989 01:0011
                
                i believe that  it was probably a specific emblem
                for dalt's family as  to  their  vow  to  destroy
                amber.  ie it was  probably  jasra's.  wonder who
                is it that was training you-know-who.    where is
                that next book.....
                
                this waiting is monotonous [sp]
                
                
575.19ReviewsVERGA::KLAESQuo vadimus?Sat Aug 28 1993 15:06177
Article: 345
From: [email protected] (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews
Subject: REPOST: Belated Reviews #18: Roger Zelazny
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: 28 Aug 93 12:14:26 GMT
 
		Belated Reviews #18:  Roger Zelazny
 
Roger Zelazny's work is more recent than that of most of the authors I've
been reviewing.  Indeed, his inclusion represents a problem:  Not only is
he still alive, but he is still publishing (much more actively than, say, 
Hal Clement), so it might seem that I'm implying that his best work is
behind him -- which would be tactless.  Still, since most of the books
I'll cover were written before many of the people reading this were born, 
since there's a good chance that many of said people missed those books, and
since some of those books are exceptional, I'll proceed.
 
Zelazny's books tend to be mixtures of science fiction, fantasy, and
mythology.  They are 'peopled' by gods who have a healthy respect for
technology, spell-casting computers, mythological creatures who act
like ordinary humans and humans who act like creatures out of legend.
It's an odd combination, but Zelazny makes it work.  His best books were
written in the late sixties and early seventies, including:
 
"Lord of Light" (****).  Those who make a point of locating the better
Hugo winners will have read this.  In a distant future, on a distant planet,
some colonists have developed godlike abilities -- patterned upon the Hindu
pantheon -- to fight the native 'demons'.  After the defeat of the demons,
those colonists, now unabashedly calling themselves gods, remain in power.
They are opposed by one man, the binder (and unbinder) of demons, the Lord
of Light.  What makes the book work is a brilliant balancing of two levels:
The members of the pantheon are godlike immortals, and they are also humans 
who remember Earth.  Their opponent has the attributes of Siddhartha, and
he is also a somewhat cynical student of history who knows how effective 
Buddhism can be in a Hindu culture.  "Lord of Light" makes excellent use of
the Hindu mythos while still working as science fiction.
 
	"His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god.
	 He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and
	 called himself Sam.  He never claimed to be a god.  But then,
	 he never claimed not to be a god.  Circumstances being what
	 they were, neither admission could be of any benefit."
 
When people talk about "Lord of Light", mention of "Creatures of Light and 
Darkness" (***+) is rarely far behind.  This book is based upon Egyptian
mythology.  In this case, however, the characters really *are* the gods of
ancient Egypt.  Or perhaps the gods of ancient Egypt were echoes of these
beings who, for all their timeless divinity, fit comfortably enough into 
the galaxy of the future.  The gods exist, if not in harmony, then at
least in uneasy truce until, in the House of the Dead, Anubis wakes a 
seemingly undefeatable man whose memory he (or someone) has taken.   
 
The style of this book is unusual, and a bit difficult:  The story is not told
in a smooth narrative, but in a series of short, often disjoint, episodes,
and by the time the tale is done, most of these episodes have fallen into
place.  My personal judgment is that Zelazny could not make this work as
well as he'd hoped, but that it's a remarkable effort.  The book is probably
best known, though, not for its Egyptian gods and their struggles but for
Madrak, the all-bases-covered agnostic preacher:
 
	"Then into the hands of Whatever May Be that is greater
	 than life or death, I resign myself -- if this act will
	 be of any assistance in preserving my life.  If it will
	 not, I do not.  If my saying this thing at all be
	 presumptuous, and therefore not well received by Whatever
	 may or may not care to listen, then I withdraw the statement
	 and ask forgiveness, if this thing be desired.  If not,
	 I do not.  On the other hand --- "
 
"Nine Princes in Amber" (****-) is the first of the five books in the first
Amber series.  Fortunately, it stands well enough alone that you can read
it without committing yourself to the four (or nine) books that follow.
It's a remarkable combination of light fantasy and Byzantine plotting.  
 
At the center of reality is the land/kingdom/universe of Amber.  Emanating
from it are the Shadows -- other universes or realities -- and members of the
royal house of Amber have the ability to walk from one Shadow to the next.
In an infinity of Shadows, any world that can be imagined exists somewhere.
(Or perhaps they only come into being when they are imagined; is there any
way to know?  In either case, knowledge and imagination seem to impose
limits:  There is no indication, for instance, of anyone being able to walk
to a hypothetical world of super-advanced technology and bring some of
that technology home.)  In some sense, though, Amber itself is more 'real' 
than the Shadows, and when Oberon, its ruler, disappears, it is for Amber 
that his nine sons compete.  
 
Corwin, the hero of this story, is competing at a particular disadvantage:
Most of his opponents don't know that he has lost his memory, and is running
a very long bluff.  In the process of his relearning his way through Shadow
universes and shadow politics, the reader is also introduced to this
fascinating and ambitious setting.  "Nine Princes in Amber" is the first
and best of the series.  The story goes on too long as, in the succeeding 
novels, "The Guns of Avalon" (***), "Sign of the Unicorn" (**), "The Hand of 
Oberon" (**), and "The Courts of Chaos" (**), the story becomes more and more
convoluted, and Corwin works out who is betraying what to whom.  The second
Amber series, which starts with "The Trumps of Doom" and follows Corwin's son,
is definitely too long and too convoluted.  (I really ought to wrap this
up with a clever quote from "Nine Princes in Amber", but none comes to mind.
It's not that kind of a book.)
 
"This Immortal" (***+) is less ambitious in scope.  It takes place on a
future Earth which is tired and tapped out, abandoned by most of its 
population, subsisting on memories and tourism.  It is typical of Zelazny
that there is room, in odd corners of this gone-to-seed world, for elements
of Greek mythology to coexist with visitors from other stars.  One of those
visitors is a very very important personage, with enough pull to demand
that Conrad Nimikos, Commissioner of the Earthoffice Department of Arts,
Monuments, and Archives (ie, a very senior bureaucrat), give him a guided
tour of the old planet -- a tour complicated by the fact that Conrad is
given excellent reason to allow him to be assassinated.  And by the fact
that Conrad is a lot older than he seems.  (This milieu isn't nearly as
interesting as the others, which is one of the reasons this book isn't as
memorable as the others.  The quality of the writing goes a ways towards 
compensating for this, however.)
 
	"So feathers or lead?" I asked him.
	"Pardon?"
	"It is the riddle of the kallikanzaros.  Pick one."
	"Feathers?"
	"You're wrong."
	"If I had said 'lead'...?"
	"Uh-uh.  You only have one chance.  The correct answer is
	whatever the kallikanzaros wants it to be.  You lose."
	"That sounds a bit arbitrary."
 
I'll mention "Jack of Shadows" (***+) in passing.  It takes place in a
distant-future in which Earth no longer rotates.  The Night side is the 
domain of magic, of great mages -- and some subtler powers, such as Jack
of Shadows -- and the Day side is a technological society where the powers 
of Night are dismissed as myth.  It's one of Zelzny's minor works, but I 
enjoyed it.  Zelazny has also written a number of critically aclaimed books
which I *didn't* much enjoy.  (As a tie-in to the recent discussion about
Tennyson/Silverlock, I'll identify "The Dream Master" as one of those:  One
of the main characters is, not coincidentally, named Eileen Shallot.)   The 
general rule applies:  Try his better stuff, and if it motivates you to seek
out his other books, do so then.
 
%A  Zelazny, Roger
%T  Lord of Light
%T  Creatures of Light and Darkness
%T  Nine Princes in Amber
%T  This Immortal
 
Standard introduction and disclaimer for Belated Reviews follows.

Belated Reviews cover science fiction and fantasy of earlier decades.
They're for newer readers who have wondered about the older titles on the
shelves, or who are interested in what sf/f was like in its younger days.
The emphasis is on helping interested readers identify books to try first, 
not on discussing the books in depth.
 
A general caveat is in order:  Most of the classics of yesteryear have not
aged well.  If you didn't encounter them back when, or in your early teens,
they will probably not give you the unforced pleasure they gave their
original audiences.  You may find yourself having to make allowances for
writing you consider shallow or politics you consider regressive.  When I
name specific titles, I'll often rate them using the following scale:
 
**** Recommended.
***  An old favorite that hasn't aged well, and wouldn't get a good
	reception if it were written today.  Enjoyable on its own terms.
**   A solid book, worth reading if you like the author's works.
*    Nothing special.
 
Additional disclaimers:  Authors are not chosen for review in any particular
order.  The reviews don't attempt to be comprehensive.  No distinction is 
made between books which are still in print and books which are not.
 
-----
Dani Zweig
[email protected]
 
"One of my favorite games when I was a kid was 'murder/suicide.'
 Dad would show us a photo and ask us, "Is it a murder or a suicide?"
	  --  Colleen Doran