Conference noted::sf

    re -1
    If you liked Roger Zelazny's Amber series, you might enjoy Phillip
    Jose' Farmer's "World of the Tiers" series.  It's more science
    fictioned based than the Amber series, but it's similar due to the
    travlings between worlds.  Come to think about it, both characters
    in each book lost their memory on Earth, found themselves suddenly
    in some other world, and that they have some kind of immortality
    and high position (i.e. prince or god).
    Mike_L

    I recommend Poul Anderson, a much underrated author.  His
    last several books have been rather dull, but before that he
    wrote quite a lot, and quite a lot of it was good, especially
    the Poleso-Technik League (sp?) stories, Dominic Flandry
    stories, _Tau_Zero_, _The_Avatar_, _The_Merman's_Children_,
    and many others, including some outstanding short-story
    collections.  He mostly writes science fiction, but his
    occasional forays into fantasy are usually quite good, and he
    is often humorous, especially any story about Nicholas van
    Rijn.  I have this fuzzy memory that a lot of old Anderson is
    due to be reprinted "real soon now."  If so, this might be a
    good time to start looking.  I think libraries also usually
    have a fair selection of Anderson. 

    Most old to middle-period Silverberg is fun to read as well
    as (sometimes) thought-provoking.  Titles that come to mind
    are _The_Book_of_Skulls_, _The_World_Inside_,
    _Time_of_Changes_, "Up the Line," "Downward to the Earth,"
    and _Shadrach_in_the_Furnace_.  No doubt someone else can
    suggest more.  Silverberg is also common in libraries.

    I'm embarrassed to admit that I've only recently discovered
    Joe Haldeman--most of what he writes seems fairly good, and
    he doesn't repeat himself.  I especially recommend
    _The_Forever_War_, which reads a bit like good Heinlein.

    Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun series is good for a *long*
    winter's weekend, although a little difficult to get into.

    Elizabeth Lynn writes marvelous stories and novels, both SF
    and F, all of them highly re-readable.  Unfortunately, she
    doesn't write enough.

    Sheri Tepper is a prolific writer of fantasy page-turners;
    some are mediocre, some are pretty enjoyable. Most don't hold
    up to re-reading.  Jack Chalker falls in the same category
    for me, and "feels" more like fantasy than SF. 

    M.A. Foster writes finely crafted novels I re-read over and
    over again.  Be warned, however, that most friends I have
    introduced to Foster have not been nearly so entranced. 

    F.M. Busby writes action-adventure SF stories that keep
    moving, with heroes and heroines (notably Bran Tregare and
    Rissa Kerguelen) who are only a little larger than life.
    Although not at all deep, these seem to hold up fairly well
    to re-reading.  Some of his short stories are quite
    excellent, notably "First Person Plural," and do have some
    depth missing in the novels.  I have heard some negative
    comments about the "Demu" stories/novels. 

    A great many people enjoy Larry Niven, both with and without
    collaborators.  Some "SF" readers I encounter seem to read
    nothing but Niven.  Niven mostly writes "hard-core" SF, with
    lots of neat ideas, fairly well developed.

    If you like the "neat ideas" stories, you'll like
    _Flight_of_the_Dragonfly_ and _The_Dragon's_Egg_, by a
    literate physicist (I think) whose name I've just misplaced.
    (another Foster?  If so, it's not Alan Dean Foster, whom I've
    never read.)

    David Brin and Greg Bear are "new" authors who have been
    turning out pretty high quality stuff--most anything by them
    is worth trying.  I liked _The_Postman_, _Startide_Rising_,
    _Sundiver_, and _The_River_of_Time_, all by Brin.
    _Blood_Music_ by Bear is good but strange (much of Bear is a
    little offbeat.)  I'm about to reveal my faulty memory again:
    I really liked _Heart_of_the_Comet_, which is either by Bear
    or by Gregory Benford, (I think), and I can't remember which.
    Benford is also reputed to be fairly good, although I haven't
    read much of his work.  (Too many writer's names begin with
    "A" and "B"--how am I supposed to remember who's who?)

    Sorry--I didn't mean to run on like this.  No doubt I've
    forgotten many equally good stories and authors.  I
    understand your complaint about not liking anything that's
    been coming out recently, but there's really some pretty good
    stuff there, if you can winnow it the chaff.  Most SF
    magazines have book reviews, and "Locus" is an excellent
    place to start winnowing.  Good luck and have fun! 

    -- Linda Huxtable

    Fred Pohl:  Heechee series
    Asimov:	Foundation & lots of robot stuff
    Piper:	Fuzzy's
    
    %brain-i-failed, brain has failed.

    > I'm embarrassed to admit that I've only recently discovered
    > Joe Haldeman--most of what he writes seems fairly good, and
    > he doesn't repeat himself.  I especially recommend
    > _The_Forever_War_, which reads a bit like good Heinlein.
    
    I know I'm a bit notorious for not liking Heinlein, but saying
    that THE FOREVER WAR "reads a bit like good Heinlein" is doing
    it a great disservice. TFW is far beyond anything I've read by
    Heinlein. Some people refer to it as an "updated STARSHIP TROOPERS".
    Suffice it to say that I consider TFW to be one of the top five
    sf novels I've ever read, and I've never been able to make it more
    than a third of the way through TROOPERS.
    
    On the other hand, I've also read WAR YEAR (not sf), MINDBRIDGE,
    and ALL MY SINS REMEMBERED, and came to the conclusion that Joe
    had one great book in him and is otherwise an unexceptional writer
    (he's a hell of a guitar player though!)
    
    > M.A. Foster writes finely crafted novels I re-read over and
    > over again.  Be warned, however, that most friends I have
    > introduced to Foster have not been nearly so entranced.
    
    Neither have I. I read his first book, THE WARRIORS OF DAWN,
    based on a highly enthusiastic recommendation of a friend, and
    while I liked it, I didn't like it enough to want to read anything
    else by Foster.
    
    > I have heard some negative comments about [F.M. Busby's]
    > "Demu" stories/novels.
    
    The entire Demu series can be had in one volume: THE DEMU
    TRILOGY. I've only read the first novel, CAGE A MAN, and while
    I found it well-written, I didn't like it. Can't put my finger
    on why, though.

    > If you like the "neat ideas" stories, you'll like
    > _Flight_of_the_Dragonfly_ and _The_Dragon's_Egg_, by a
    > literate physicist (I think) whose name I've just misplaced.
    > (another Foster?  If so, it's not Alan Dean Foster, whom I've
    > never read.)
    
    No, it's Robert Forward. Interesting ideas, but dull prose.
    
    > I'm about to reveal my faulty memory again: I really liked
    > _Heart_of_the_Comet_, which is either by Bear or by Gregory
    > Benford, (I think), and I can't remember which.
    
    Benford, writing in collaboration with David Brin. That's OK,
    though, a number of people confuse Greg Benford with Greg Bear.
    I can't imagine why. :-)           ^^^^^^^           ^^^^^^^
    
    --- jerry

re .2,.4 (Haldeman vs. Heinlein)

    I was afraid I'd get in trouble with that comparison!  I
    quite understand not liking Heinlein; I discovered him as a
    gawky teenager and find that (most) of his work does not read
    well now.  And almost nothing he's written in the last 20
    years is worth reading (I'll get in trouble for that, too).
    Note that I did not recommend Heinlein.  I haven't read
    _Starship_Troopers_, mostly because of people who, like you,
    find it really difficult to pick up again. 

    Nonetheless, what I liked originally about Heinlein was the
    plots and almost-too-competent-to-be-real characters.  In
    that sense, _The_Forever_War_ seems to me to have the flavor
    of a Heinlein novel, and I meant to imply that someone who
    likes/liked Heinlein would probably like TFW.  I understand
    that it is something of a refutation of the "glory in war"
    philosophy of _Starship_Troopers_, and someone who likes its
    conservative philosophy would not like TFW--but I've never
    met a Heinlein fan who reads him for *content* :-).  Anyway,
    I think anyone who likes the way Heinlein reads would like
    TFW.  (Just as someone who likes/liked Heinlein juveniles
    would probably enjoy _Rite_of_Passage_ by Alexei Panshin, a
    much better treatment of adolescents than Heinlein ever
    managed.  And I mostly like Heinlein juveniles.) 

    I have read _Mindbridge_ and didn't find that it reminded me
    of TFW at all, considerably more introspective and somehow
    moodier than TFW.  It seemed to be less about war and more
    about miscommunication and cultural assumptions, both in
    interpersonal relationships and in inter-species relations.
    (Hmmm...now that I think of it, it does sound more like TFW.)
    I haven't read _All_My_Sins_Remembered_, although I'm told it
    continues the anti-war theme in TFW, and I gather this is a
    common theme in nearly all Haldeman's work:  is this what you
    meant by "one great book" in him? 


    Thanks for correcting the names for me on Forward (I agree,
    mostly dull prose, but I like the ideas) and the Benford/Brin
    collaboration.  I had just about decided (before I looked)
    that _Heart_of_the_Comet_ must have been a collaboration by
    Benford and Bear, not Benford and Brin.  Memory!
        

    -- Linda Huxtable

    Heinlein has been rather spotty of late.  I read the first chapter
    of "The Number Of The Beast" in OMNI and had to dash right out and
    buy the book in trade paperback (and I never buy trade paperbacks!).
    It started out with all the right R.A.H. stuff, high tech stuff
    you could almost understand, super_competent heros, definate
    demarcation between the good guys and the bad guys, women who were
    _not_ airheads, and all that fun stuff.
    
    	########### Spoiler ########
    
    Then they started wandering off to various other universes, went
    to the land of Oz, met all kinds of literary_fictional characters,
    thier vehicle got "bigger on the inside than is is on the outside",
    and (IMHO) drifted off into a drug-induced fantasy.  I can't seem
    to remember how it ended....
    
    Then of course he more than made up for his lapse in "Friday" {if
    you haven't read this, run_do_not_walk_etc), about which I can't
    say enough nice things (so I'm biased, I'm also in love...).
    
    Then he took them darn drugs again and drifted off into "Job: A
    comedy of Justice" where god turns out to be a supreme being with
    other even_supremer (sic) beings above him and I'm not sure how
    that one ended either...
    
    I haven't yet read "The Cat Who Walks Thru Walls" yet, though I
    have bought it I suspect it's another hard_science_fiction_with_
    _superhuman_heros_in_the_land_of_Oz......  Someone please tell me
    different?
    
    Willie

    Early Heinlein is definitely worth reading, especially some of the
    short stories.  I just read "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan
    Hoag" -- it's hard to believe the author is the same as the recent stuff. 
    Both that collection (alternate title: 6xH) and "The Menace from Earth"
    collection are entertaining.  Heinlein has always been more into
    character studies set in the future than "hard SF."  Unfortunately his
    recent work has gotten carried away with creating a bizarre multiverse
    for his characters to play in.

    To understand the characters in his later books, it's a good idea to
    read "Time Enough for Love", which one acquaintance refers to as "Time
    Enough for Sex."  It's the beginning of the end. but still re-readable.

    I liked "Number of the Beast" in spite of its significant shortcomings;
    I guess I was happy to get more of Lazarus Long.  I agree with .-1 on
    "Friday," but I also *really* liked "Job."  It is pretty silly, but
    I thought it was fun.  It had the advantages of being completely
    independent of the multiverse, and not being preachily preoccupied
    with sex.

    "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" should've been named "The Number of
    the Beast is a Harsh Mistress."  Heinlein tried to go into more detail
    on what awful things can happen in this wonderful Multiverse.  Blecch.

    The most recent novel is "To Sail Beyond the Sunset."  It's the memoir
    of Maureen (Lazarus Long's mother).  It's better than TCWWTW, but it
    could've been better.

    Beverly

    re:.5
    
    No, when I said "Haldeman had only one great book in him", I
    didn't mean that he keeps using the same theme over and over,
    but that he has one great book and a bunch of average_at_best
    books. Frank Herbert is another one. DUNE is terrific, but
    everything else except UNDER PRESSURE --- OK, so he has *two*
    great books :-) --- is average_at_best.
    
    In each case, the great book seems to be a fluke rather than
    an indication of general talent on the part of the author.
    
    re:.6
    
    �I read the first chapter of "The Number Of The Beast" in OMNI
    and had to dash right out and buy the book in trade paperback
    (and I never buy trade paperbacks!).�
    
    Strange you should say that. I didn't have any real intention
    of reading TNOTB anyways, but some friends and I were discussing
    the book and Heinlein in general, and one friend (who didn't
    like TNOTB) handed me the book and said, "Read the first page,"
    so I did (and a few paragraphs into the second). My observation
    was that it was some of the worst writing by a reasonably
    respected author that I'd read in a long time, and when I voiced
    this opinion, my friend said, "And the rest of the book is just
    more of the same."
    
    If a cellulose-destroying bomb wiped out all of the books on the
    planet, but a copy of TNOTB miraculously survived, I might consider
    reading it, but until then, no thanks.
    
    --- jerry

    re .0
    
    If you are looking for good reading, there are several topics in
    this conference discussing favorite books.  I think I've got enough
    titles on my 'to read' list now to last me the rest of my life.
    A quick scan through the 'already read' list produced these few
    titles of books that I really enjoyed....
    
    
    Aldis,  Helliconia Spring
    
    Asimov,  The Gods Themselves
    
    Bester,  The Stars My Destination

    Herbert,  Lazarus Effect (reading this one now)
        
    Hogan,  Inherit the Stars
    
    Leguin,  Left Hand of Darkness 
    
    Pohl,  Gateway
    
    Sagan,  Contact
    
    Varley,  Titan
    
    
    
    I, like you, was beginning to think that I had run out of good Science
    Fiction reading.  Now I know that I've only just scratched the surface.
    A liesurely cruise through this entire notes file (with liberal use of
    the 'next unseen' key) took about 6 months, and was worth it. 

    
    Steve

    re. Haldeman's "Mindbridge"    YESYESYES ! Must dig up my copy
    and reread.
    
    re. Anderson's recent work - I've read the first three of the 
    "King of Ys" series - the best historical fantasy in ages. But
    I admit a preference for 'hard' sf.
    
    For something really different - K.W. Jeter's "Dr. Adder" is
    out - written in the early seventies and only recently published,
    a fore-runner of cyberpunk with wierdness a-plenty.
    
    Dana

    re:.10
    
    Actually, you mean that Jeter's DR. ADDER is just out in mass
    market paperback. It was actually published about six years ago
    in trade paperback (and limited edition hardcover) by Bluejay
    Books.
    
    It's wild and wonderful, but it's not for wussies.
    
    --- jerry

I'd recommend anything by Rudy Rucker.  The only title that comes to mind
is "The Master of Time and Space," though...

JP

re: 562.7

>    read "Time Enough for Love", which one acquaintance refers to as "Time
>    Enough for Sex."  It's the beginning of the end. but still re-readable.

I've always called it "Time for Enough Love".  Descriptive, yet low-key.

Ray

    Dr. Forward is a senior physicist at Hughes. I really like his stuff
    (yes, the prose style leaves a little to be desired). He invented
    the Forward Mass Detector.
    
    There is a sequel to _Dragon's Egg_ called _Starquake_, which is
    also very good.
    
    Nobody has mentioned Jack Vance yet. I'll read *anything* by Vance;
    try the "Best of" collection.
    
    I just re-read "Desolation Road" by Ian McDonald -- I still like
    it.
    
    And, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I really liked Brian Daley's Alacrity
    Fitzhugh and Hobart Floyt books (don't flame me; it's space opera,
    but it's _good_ space opera)
    				- HBM

    > And, I'm ashamed to admit it, but I really liked Brian Daley's Alacrity
    > Fitzhugh and Hobart Floyt books (don't flame me; it's space opera, but
    > it's _good_ space opera).
     
    I despise space opera, but I really liked those books too.  Maybe
    not deathless prose, but a good entertaining read.
    
    The only space opera I liked was Harry Harrison's "Star Smashers
    Of The Galaxy Rangers".  I laughed all the way through, though the
    ending didn't seem to mesh with the rest of the book.  "Bill, The
    Galactic Hero" wasn't bad either.
    
    Willie
    

    	I was disappointed with DRAGON'S EGG and STARQUAKE for the primary
    fact that Forward had this incredible idea - describing life on
    the surface of a neutron star - and ended up making them sound like
    slugs which acted like ordinary humans!  How pedestrian for such
    a major idea. 
    
    	It is rather obvious that Forward wanted to present his hypothesis
    in an SF format without really worrying over anything else.  He
    should have read Stanislaw Lem's SOLARIS:  Now *there* is a real
    alien alien!
    
    	Larry
    

    If you haven't read this older book already I strongly recommend
    "The Mote in God's Eye" by Niven and Pournelle.  It is a very good
    first contact story.  The aliens and the technology have been very
    well thought out. 
    
    Tony

    Try any of ex-digital employee James Hogan's books (except the
    latest "The Proteus Operation"). His style is very similar to Clarke.

    Yes, Hogan is OK, and he has great ideas, but there's something
    unsatisfying about his stories.  Lots of high tech gadgetry, but
    not a lot of action.
    
    Willie

        .19: Depends on how you define "action".  I've always thought of
        Hogan's stuff as "mental adventure stories".  The action is just
        more subtle.  The first Hogan book I read was Thrice Upon a Time
        (the best time travel story ever written): I was absolutely
        amazed by the sense of adventure and action he conveyed, using a
        bunch of lab scientists who never really *went* anywhere.  After
        all, the essence of adventure is exploring the unknown: they
        sure did that.  Most of his books have the same ingredients;
        the latest two seem different and much weaker, unfortunately. 
        
        	/dave

    Battlefield Earth, saga of the year 3000, by L. Ron Hubbard was
    good.  His 'invaders plan' | 'mission earth' (ten vol set) is ok
    but I got sick of it after number 7 or 8.
    
    Scott.

	Lois McMaster Bujold (not sure about the spelling) is quite good.
	I have just finished SHARDS OF HONOR for the 2nd time and still
	love it. It's pretty much space opera with an excellent understated
	love story. No explict sex but a feeling of true mutual respect
	between two soldiers from different sides of the war. There is also
	a complicated story line that involves political realities of both
	sides. The characters don't waste time with I love you's but do
	say things like "when he's cut, I bleed" and "she is like a fountain
	that pours out honor". I imagin Seguerney Weaver playing Cordelia
	with Michael Douglas as Aral.

	Another good book by Lois is ETHAN OF ATHOS. Which is about a guy
	from a planet populated only by men who need to import some new
	human eggs to keep their population going. Ethan must go to a space
	station that actually has "horrors" WOMEN on it. His adventures are
	amusing. liesl

    re: Haldeman.  "Yes" to _The Forever War_.  "No" to _All My Sins
    Remembered_.  "Maybe" to _Mindbridge_ ("I teach you the Superman"...
    the first sucessful contact in Mindbridge sounded like the kind
    of integrated personality Nietzche meant; they didn't find another 
    human like that for 70 years or something.)  But nobody mentioned 
    _Worlds_ or _Worlds Apart_!  Both of these were worth reading and
    explored many different themes: world biological disaster, post-
    disaster survival, space-habitat, generation starship, social themes
    (group marriage, psychological profiling, religious zealotry, etc)
    and I found them to be "Great books" material.  Now, of course,
    someone is going to tell me that some other author whose name starts
    with "H" wrote those books...
    
    re: .1, someone recommended Elizabeth A Lynne (sp).  I must disagree.
    I was utterly unimpressed after trying a trilogy and a 4th book.
    
    Orson Scott Card has written several novels and short stories.
    _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker For the Dead_ go together and are strongly
    recommended; EG won both Hugo and Nebula a few years ago.  _Hart's
    Hope_, _A Planet Called Treason_, and the anthology _Unaccompanied
    Sonata_ are also excellent.  He editted anthologies called
    _Dragons of Light_ and _Dragons of Darkness_, short stories about
    dragons; they weren't as good as his own work, but not bad either.
    
    David Drake has done several books with a future mercenary flavor;
    _Ranks of Bronze_ about a roman legion fighting for space-going
    merchants, and another (_The Forlorn Hope_, I think...drat!) which
    was actually better; along the lines of the Hammer's Slammers series,
    but his mercenary forces in this one almost get wiped out; the book
    is about how they try to get off-planet with their skins.  But I most 
    preferred Drake's collaboration with Karl Edward Wagner (the guy who 
    wrote the Kane books) called _Killer!_ about a real bad beastie called 
    a phile, which an interstellar smuggler managed to have marooned on 
    Earth.  The smuggler wanted this beastie to breed (by eating us
    Earthies), and the hunt for it (again, in the roman era) was great!  
    One fight scene between a tiger and the phile was heart-stopping, our 
    protagonist witnessed it at close hand.
                      
    Hm.  I think I have too many favorite books, this could go on awhile.

    It has been many years since I read it, but one of my favorites
    was "A Mirror for Observers" by Edgar Pangborn. It's about aliens
    disguised as humans, keeping an eye on us (and each other). Very
    low key, but beautifully crafted, as I remember it.
    
    Several of John Brunner's stories make outstanding reading: "Stand
    on Zanzibar", "The Sheep Look Up" (both of which have multi-threaded
    story lines running in parallel), and "Shock Wave Rider", which
    seems to have been an SF take-off on Toffler's "Future Shock".
                                                   
    Alfred Bester. "The Stars My Destination" has been mentioned before.
    I thought "The Demolished Man" was one of the best ever on telepathy.
    
    - Richard