Conference noted::sf

    The first book in the series was called The Mirror of Her Dreams.
    I thought it was wonderful also.  I was wondering when the next
    book in the series would be out.  I checked a couple of weeks ago
    in the local book stores.
    
    Any chance you could give us some info about this second chapter?
    I guess I'm asking for a teaser to encourage me to part with the
    bucks for the hard cover version.
    
    I thought that this was to be a trilogy also.  Does this book end
    this series?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ed

    Well, I just finished A Man Rides Through about a week ago, and
    was extremely pleased with it.  For those considering this
    recomendation in purchasing the book, I'll first tell you that I
    enjoyed both of Donaldson's earlier trilogies (though especially
    the first), as well as his short stories, so I attacked both this
    book and The Mirror of Her Dreams with high hopes and high
    expectations.
    
    I finished The Mirror of Her Dreams in April, and have been waiting
    VERY impatiently for A Man Rides Through ever since.  I had just
    started rereading TMoHD when AMRT came out, so I finished it up
    again before continuing on.  I managed to stretch TMoHD through
    for a week, but once I picked up AMRT I couldn't put it down. Over
    the course of 28 hours, I spent 14-15 on the book, even though I
    had planned on it lasting at least until Thankgiving.  If you
    enjoyed TMoHD, I would fullheartedly recommend AMRT.  If you haven't
    tried TMoHD, I would fullheartedly recommend the both of them.
    
    I'll put a few very mild spoilers behind a <FF>
    
    Joe Huber
    
    (Mild Spoilers)
    
    1) Remember the living room? Geraden does.
    2) Flat mirrors can destroy your mind, unless you're and Arch-Imager.
       Otherwise, they can be quite helpful.
    3) King Joyse rules good.
    4) Bedfellows make interesting allies.
    5) Treachery can pay off, in the end.
    6) Sometimes your friends can hurt you.
    
    There are many suprises, which I'm sure you don't want spoiled,
    so I'll just leave you these.  The hardcover is worth every penny,
    though, if you ask me.

    I agree with .2!  I thought that the second book was worth every
    penny I spent on the hardcover.  I knew I wouldn't be able to wait
    until it came out in paper.
    
    I believe that this is another trilogy -- TMoHD is books one and two,
    and AMRT is Book three.
    
    Were the teasers in .2 enough?  I'd be more than happy to give some
    more!
    
    Go buy it (nudge, nudge)!
    
    

I enjoy Donaldson's work, and as much as I enjoyed Covenant, I found
his attitude really got me mad at times.  The tone of the Covenant
series was sort of a downer.

I'd love to check out his new stuff, but only if the tone is a little
more up.

Any reassurances?  (I mean, who wants to be reading depressing stuff
during the holidays?)

frank

    Well, at times you want to yell at the characters, especially in
    TMoHD, and at times Terisa's character, though not purposefully
    looking at things in a depressing way, is depressing in the way
    she looks at thing.  HOWEVER, the general mood is one which get
    continually less depressing, until by the end things are much lighter.
    If you're looking for bright and cheerful throughout, you might
    want to wait on it.  If you're looking for something which moves
    towards cheerfullness, TMoHD ALONG WITH AMRT fit the bill.
    
    Just my thoughts.
    
    Joe Huber

Well, I picked it up in the bookstore last nite (in paper of course).

Have to give it a try soon....

fw

    I really enjoyed the first book, and have ordered the second one
    through the Literary Guild at $14.95 instead of $19.95. 
    pretty good, huh?
    
    Theresa.

    Re .4
    
    I didn't think the tone was nearly as depressing as Donaldson's
    "sixology" even in the beginning.  I wouldn't have any trouble reading
    it through the holidays, especially since it does get lighter and
    lighter thoughout the whole series.
    
    Has anyone heard if there is another series by Donaldson in the
    works yet?  I think he is getting better, and I can't wait for the
    next book.
    
    Jen

	re .-1:

	Thanks for the advice.  I plan to start it soon, maybe even this
	weekend if I get the chance.

	Donaldson seems to me to be a pretty up and coming writer.  He
	put out a fantasy "sixology"  (I like that word, Jen) that wasn't
	a remake of Tolkien's LOTR.  He's fairly young too (I think).

	If I hear of anything new from him, I'll let you know....

	frank

    re .8,.9:
    
    "sixology" would be the science of six. How about "sextet"?
    
                                                   
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                 /
    

    Re .8, .9, & .10
    
    How about "hexalogy" on analogy with "tetralogy"?  Or you could
    be a wet blanket and call it a "series."
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I just looked it up -- there is no such word as "hexalogy."  I think
    the correct term is "hexad" (a group or series of six), but not
    too many people would know what you are talking about when you say,
    
    "I really liked Donaldson's hexad."
    
    Maybe I should say two trilogies...
    
    Jen
    
    

    re:.12
    
    Well, they *were* published as two trilogies.
    
    Quite likely the reason "hexalogy" isn't in the dictionary is
    because the term was never needed before. "Hexad" in a more
    general term for a group of six members, "hexalogy" would be
    more specific to books. "Dekalogy" isn't in the dictionary
    either, but that's what they use to refer to L. Ron Hubbard's
    10-part MISSION EARTH series.
    
    For the record, these would be the "proper" terms for 4-book
    groups through 10-book groups:
    
    4	tetralogy
    5	pentalogy
    6	hexalogy
    7	heptalogy
    8	octology
    9	nonalogy
    10	dekalogy
    
    Or maybe we should just call all of them "polylogies" and be done
    with it. :-)
    
    --- jerry

    Or we could just call them "tedious" ;^)
    
    -dave
    

      I read his first two series and loved them, but before I run
    down and get his new ones, could someone give me a run down of what
    the story is about.

    Micro-Summary:  Person powerless in our world is transplanted to
    another world and becomes all powerful, saving land in progress.
    
    Gee, sound familiar?                                         
    
    I have not yet read A Man Rides Through, but given the way The Mirror
    of Her Dreams ended, it appears Donaldson wrote one long book called
    Mordant's Need, divided the manuscript at the closest cliffhangar
    to the middle, and gave each half a title.
    
    That's probably the most annoying thing about the series.  Donaldson
    sets in motion a number of sub-plots and character interactions,
    and six hundred pages later most of the threads are still dangling.
    
    I'm not sure I want to go into more detail than that.  Perhaps someone
    else would.
    
    DFW
    
    
    

Well, I'm no literary genius (and I don't even play one on TV ;^) )
but I guess Donaldson has more or less defined his common motif as
"transporting a powerless person here to a world where they are
all powerful".

It's kind of an interesting concept, and I would really be interested
if anyone has read or heard any interviews with Donaldson which might
cover why he chose this particular scenario.

Also, has he written any short stories?

fw

    Re .18
    
    Well, I wouldn't quite agree with "all powerful", but that theme
    does seem to be the focus of his series.
    
    He does have a book of short stories out, called (if I remember
    correctly) "Daughter of Regals".  One of the stories is a chapter
    kept out of his first series, but the rest are seperate. None have
    the "transporting...all powerful" theme, but a couple do have a
    basically powerless person becoming powerful.  Not a bad book, in
    my opinion, but not up to his other works.

    
    There's a collection of short stories called "Daughter of Regals."
    The only thing I know it contains is an piece of The Illearth War
    that was not in the novel.
    
    DFW

	Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I was angry at the ending
	of MOHD. I don't like such a boldface attempt to make me read the next
	book (of course I will once it's in paperback, but that's not important).

	Doesn't it seem like a cheap shot? almost as if he didn't think the 
	series was good enough to make me want to read the next one anyway. 
	I agree with whoever said it's like one book was split in two. I
	looked at the hardback of the next volume and it seems a lot longer
	than MOHD but maybe they use large type. liesl

    I really enjoyed the book, so I didn't mind the cliffhanger ending,
    since I was planning to read the next volume.
    
    How did his first two trilogies end?  Were any of them cliffhangers?
     I can't remember.
    
    The second volume is not in large print -- it is pretty long.  The
    series is really four books that have been published in two volumes.
    
    Hope you enjoy the ending!
    
    Jen

re: .22
    
>    How did his first two trilogies end?  Were any of them cliffhangers?

The trilogies themselves came to complete conclusions (in other words,
trilogy 1 did not leave you on the edge of your seat for trilogy 2).

However, the ending of "The Illearth War" (book 2 in trilogy 1, and
one of the saddest books I have ever read) is so full of despair and
pathos that it is difficult to read without wanting a book 3 to "make
things right".  The ending to "The One Tree" (book 2 in trilogy 2) is
somewhat similar in tone, if less drastic.
								pmc

    "Dispair and pathos..."  Well put!  There was an aura of dispair
    and pathos in both of the Covenant trilogies.  I'm glad that the
    new series was on a happier note; it would have turned me off of
    him a bit, I think, if I thought he could only write "dispair and
    pathos!"
    
    Jen
    

    I just finished Mirror of Her Dreams, and would like to echo the
    recommendations of earlier replies.  The ending is frustrating (as is
    the absence of the paperback A Man Rides Through, since I can't afford
    another hardcover right now), but not nearly as bad as Zelazny's.
    
    I don't really agree that she becomes "all-powerful."  Obviously, it
    may turn out that way, but in MoHD, she's mostly just confused and
    hesitant, learning how to interact with other people.  The growth of
    this character is fascinating to watch.

    If you go back and read the Prologue after finishing the book, you'll
    see that you were told quite a bit about the characters there.  Terisa
    is under an enchantment of habit, etc.  The comments about her father
    are also interesting in retrospect.

    I've never read anything else by Donaldson, but his style in this is
    great.  I was hooked by the time I flipped the first page!

    Beverly

    
    	Is that Stephen Donaldson ??
    
    	Try the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant "The Unbeliever". I thought
    they were great.
    
    	Donaldsons critics say that he is verbose and doen't know how
    to tell a story. I think the last criticism is BS and I'm verbose
    too , so I loved his style. The guy develops characters VERY well
    , but I guess tlaking alot is part of being verbose.
    
    	Thanks for the recommend , I wondered what he's been up to.
    
    Paul
    

    Re .18: I haven't seen any interviews but I HAVE heard him lecture
    three times in the last year and a half (when you live in Albuquerque,
    which I used to do, you DO have decent access to the New Mexico
    Mafia of Zelazny, Saberhagen, WJWilliams, Snodgrass, and of course
    Donaldson; others are there but the names slip my mind!)  Donaldson
    took his masters in English Lit; in particular he studied the works
    of Conrad (such as _Lord Jim_, _Heart of Darkness_, and _The Secret
    Sharer_).  You may see what you choose in this; I see his penchant
    for revealing powerful human emotions through despair/"despite"
    as he put it in the first trilogy, which he learned from Conrad.
    That trilogy spoke about the ennobling potential of choosing to fight 
    your own tendency to give up, to despair.  
    
    Donaldson has now used the technique of transporting a character
    to another world where they suddenly must deal responsibly with
    power in two worlds.  I have two comments about that technique:
    1) He's using it as a parallel construction to indicate the inner
    world where we all must fight our own despair; who has power there?
    2) I think its far too simplistic to call it a 'theme' (is that the 
    word that was used?); as I mentioned above, to me, it looks like
    a technique.  And it was NOT used in some of his other work...
    
    Hey, there's a good transition, to the question about short stories:
    1) _Daughter_of_Regals_ was the title story for a well-written
    collection of short stories by Donaldson about 3(?) years ago. 
    I can only recall that story and the first trilogy out-take.
    
    [An aside: is Jerry Boyajian out there?  I used to read you in 
    another forum, before I joined DEC.  If you still style yourself 
    "Bibliography is my business" can I ask a favor?  What are the 
    titles in _Daughter of Regals_?  My library is in storage...
    thanks if you can oblige.]
    
    Daughter of Regals featured the ascent to power of an heir.  She
    was the first female to ascend in generations; ascent required
    demonstration of an inherited power.  The story was about her upcoming
    bid and the treacherous politics that surrounded her.  I don't see
    this as the same technique Donalson used earlier. 
    
    _Gildenfire_ was about the Lord's mission to Seareach to find out why 
    no one had heard from the Giants.  Donaldson deleted it from book 2
    for two reasons; he had to cut wordage; and it was thematically
    important to maintain Covenant as the direct actor in that trilogy.  
    Covenant was "the Unbeliever".  Telling a major chunk of story from 
    someone else's viewpoint would rob Covenant's unbelief of its
    veracity...it would make the reader feel that these other folks really 
    existed, and thus, the reader would have less empathy with Covenant's 
    fundamental dilemnas.  At least, these are the two reasons Donaldson 
    gives for outtaking Gildenfire.
    
    Enough , I know.  Donaldson's work and thought on just what he is
    trying to do with fantasy inspired me to go back and read Conrad;
    I think very highly of his work.
    
    Doug

    Re .18 and my earlier .28:
    
    In .28, I took issue with the word "theme".  The noter in .18
    actually used the word "motif".  My same objections apply, and
    sorry for the mistake.
    
    Doug

re: .28

I forget which book "Gildenfire" was cut from, but part of the strength
of _The Illearth War_ was the switching of viewpoint between Hile Troy and
Covenant--especially since each threatened the assumptions made by the other.
So I don't think it was cut purely to preserve a single storytelling viewpoint.
There's a similar split in _The Power That Preserves_, but this time between
Covenant and Mhoram.  The difference is that these were among the most
important 3 or 4 characters in the respective books--whereas the characters
in "Gildenfire" were more accurately minor characters to the overall story.

    Re .28, .30, on the reasons "Gildenfire" was cut:
    
    You've jogged my memory, thanks.  I'd forgotten the switching of
    viewpoint between Hile Troy and Covenant.  Let me restate this.
    
    Donaldson cut "Gildenfire" from book 2 to cut wordage and for thematic
    reasons.  His explanation of that thematic reason had to do with
    perspective and impact on the reader, if he told a major subplot
    where Covenant had no part.  I'm not sure right now, my library
    is locked away until I find permanent quarters; but does Covenant
    ever get very far from Hile Troy?  Is he in every scene?  Is the
    scene, even though described from Troy's viewpoint, impacting
    on/involving Covenant?  This would square both our points, I think.
    Donaldson did say something to the effect that Covenant's Unbelief
    was becoming increasingly difficult to maintain as a meaningful
    theme for the reader, and this major subplot which Covenant didn't
    even hear about for a long while after (from Foamfollower at Foul's
    Creche, I think) was just too risky to the Unbelief theme.  Thus,
    he felt he had to keep Covenant very close to the action...
    
    I AM trying to remember a question/response from a few years ago,
    sorry I can't recall it better!
    
    Doug

    Troy was a valid viewpoint, as he was supposed to come from the
    same Earth that Covenant did.  What Donaldson wanted to avoid was
    having a major viewpoint be from a character originating in the
    Land.

re: .31,.32

>    same Earth that Covenant did.  What Donaldson wanted to avoid was
>    having a major viewpoint be from a character originating in the
>    Land.

True in _The Illearth War_, where the parallel (sub)plots are Troy's
long march in retreat from Foul's army on the one hand and Covenant's
and High Lord Elena's descent into the underworld on the other.  In
_The Power That Preserves_, Covenant's progress toward Foul's Creche
is paralleled by the events leading up to "Lord Mhoram's Victory"
(where Mhoram provides the primary viewpoint).

The importance of not validating the viewpoint of a character from
the Land in book 2 may have been so as not to undercut the very grim
and despairing tone of the ending.  In book 3 that was not a concern.

      Well, I finally finished A Man Rides Through (borrowed from the
      library), and really enjoyed it.  It does push the limits of
      verbosity; like Mirror of Her Dreams, it's over 600 pages.  There's 
      more action in AMRT than in MoHD, especially on Terisa's part.  Parts
      of the resolution were actually a surprise, too, which was pleasant.

      Beverly

    	Is AMRT out in paperback yet?  I would gladly pay for it in
    hardcover if there weren't so many other good books for me to read
    which are cheaper.  At about a book per week, I haven't yet run
    out of Asimov, Anthony, Heinlein, etc.  But the first was awesome.
    Sort of reminded me of the books I had to read in high school English-
    where characters were developed rather than just plopped down before
    us.  If SF and Fantasy got the respect they deserve in the literary
    circles, many of Donaldson's works would be classics.  (Illearth
    War had me crying for more after #6 - this series probably will
    too.)
    							jw
    

    Yes it is out in paperback. Here in Holland I have found both the
    US and the UK paperback, so I guess it is available in
    wherever-you-live. 
    It's a great book. I'm afraid mirrors will never be the same for
    me since I read the book.
    
    Arie

    
    I haven't been able to find it yet in paperback in the U.S.. An
    employee of the book store looked it up somewhere and claimed it
    wasn't out yet in paperback.  For myself, I'll be waiting for the
    paperback, due to some disappointment in the first book, TMoHD.
    I loved the Thomas Covenant books, and therefore had high expectations
    for this new Donaldson series.  I can't figure out how Terisa could
    actually be having trouble trusting Geraden, despite Eremis.(whose
    melodrama is slightly nauseating.)  Also, how could the Castellan
    not have foreseen the need to guard the water supply when the reader
    is broadsided early on by hints that the water supply is a
    vulnerability?  The only characters that I am intrigued by at this
    point are King Joyse and Adept Havelock.  The others haven't struck
    me as well-rounded enough to be real people, yet. But yes, I'll
    certainly read the next book when its available in paperback.
    Brian
    

    I've seen "A Man Rides Through" listed as a selection for the SF Book
    Club (as 1 of the 5 you get to join), so that's another option. The
    Nashua Library probably has it (a friend of mine gets to stock the SF
    section; she's the only one there who cares about SF), if you live in
    that area.

    I agree that "Mirror of Her Dreams is weak and draggy in places; I
    thought AMRT was a definite improvement. 

    Beverly

    the soft cover will be out nov-88 in bookstores. It might be out
    earlier.
    
    Dave
    

    I just finished *all* of _Mordant's Need_.  (I, too, am of the opinion
    that they are one book cut in half for publishing reasons too boring
    to detail here.)  Unlike most of the others who wrote in this topic,
    I *hated* the Covenant books (what I managed to read of them...the
    first book and a half...).  That's why it took so long for people
    to talk me into trying TMoHD & AMRT.
    
    But I'm *very* glad I did!  If there's any of you out here who feel
    about Covenant the way I do, don't write Donaldson off because of
    it!  His prose is beautiful, with rich descriptions that make you
    *see* what is happening.  And in these books, the characters *grow*
    like real people do, with backsliding, fortunate mistakes, and all.
    
    I had two very enjoyable weeks reading the books.  If you see
    Donaldson, thank him for me, please.
    
    	Merryl

       I too just finished AMRT. I absolutely loved it. Thank you
       Donaldson for giving me a book that had a ending I could love. I
       could barely put this book down. lately I've hit a rash of books
       whose author's must hate happy endings. "The Sword-singer" by J.
       Roberson shattered me and left me despondent and depressed for days.
       It was even worse than the "Bishop's Heir". I needed a book like
       AMRT. I want my hero's to grow and learn then kick A** on the bad
       guys. This wasn't a syrupy sweet story with perfect people, lord
       knows our heros had their faults but they overcame them in
       ways that were believeable (given that I believe the basic
       assumptions of the story itself).

       I haven't read any of Donaldson's other books but I take from the
       previous notes that it's not of the same style as this set. Do to
       factors in my personal life I'm not doing well with "downer"
       books this year so I guess I'll skip his other stuff. Do some of
       these author's think I read fantasy to get the same depressing
       stuff I see on the news and read in the newspaper? liesl

    I hate to enter this here, but I can't find a Roberson note.  While
    I, too was depressed at the end of _Sword-Singer_, I felt she had worked
    her characters into a position where that was the only solution.
    (But it *hurt*...)  We should be seeing a sequel, eventually.  I've
    heard some things and I'd glady discuss it by mail or in another
    note...

    re .42:
    
    > I hate to enter this here, but I can't find a Roberson note.
      
    Well, why not start one?
                                                   
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    Seems to me I saw a few MORDANT books at Caldor's in the "one buck" 
    section....   
    
    And one of Auel's, too.
    
    						Don

    I also *loved* a man rides through. I sort of gulped it down in
    a very brief time...even brought it to work to read at lunch.
    
    Bonnie

	When I read MoHD, I thought is was a standalone book.  When I
read the last two pages I almost heaved the book through a window.  Good
thing it was a borrowed book to be returned in good condition.  It was over
a year before I read the sequel.  
	A friend belongs to a SF book club, and cost is about 1/2 face value.
Usually books I am looking for become selections about 3-4 months after the
are published.

			Kbear

    I just finished re-reading "Mirror" prefatory to finally reading "Man".
    I am once again impressed with Donaldson's grasp of human motivation
    and thought processes.  Terisa is totally believable in her passiveness
    and even in her neurosis.  We know her background, or enough of
    it to understand her.  We see the dilemmas going on in her mind
    -- what to believe, who to trust, what difference does it make anyhow.
    I would imagine it's hard to write so convincingly about the way
    someone else's mind works -- especially the almost pre-adolescent
    sexual thoughts and emotions of an adult person of the opposite sex.
    Yet Donaldson does it with finesse!  And Donaldson is a true wordsmith
    -- his phrasing is perfect, and for hundreds of pages it remains
    perfect!  Pick a few random selections and imagine re-wording them
    -- I did and I couldn't improve on them hard as I tried!  They flow
    and sparkle and simply WORK.
    
    I start "A Man Rides Through" tonight -- with high anticipation!
    A strong recommendation to people who enjoy a good, meaty read!
    But get both books at once (they are both in remainder now at about
    $3.95 apiece) so you don't have to wait to go on -- the cliffhanger
    at the end of the first book hurts!!!
    
    (I wonder if FX are up to making a movie out of these? Although
    casting might require all unknowns...)
    
    Sherry

                
                Funny you  should  enter  that  note.  I was just
                about to do a search for Donaldson.  I read those
                two books way back  when  they first came out.  I
                love this guy's writing.  I'm currently rereading
                Thomas Covenant.  I put TC  right  up  there with
                Shannara,  LotR and Amber.  I thought  there  was
                supposed  to be a Linden Avery series.   Whatever
                happened to that?  Anybody know what this guy  is
                up to now?
                
                - rob  who  finds  himself  rereading  old  books
                rather than buying new books these days -
                
                

    Re: .47:
    
       You make a point which for me is Donaldson's greatest (but not
    only!) strength.
    
       His writing is absolutely wonderful.  TMoHD and AMRT are good, maybe
    even very good plots.  However, Donaldson's mastery of storytelling
    makes the Mordant's Need series a true work of art.  He creates such a
    marvelous (I need a thesaurus to start looking up alternative words to
    describe him... :-) background and the characters live in it so
    matter-of-factly that it is very believable as a story.
    
       I'm still not pleased with Donaldson for what he did to The Land in
    the second trilogy of The Unbeliever, but I'm waiting with bated breath
    for any new works of his in the pipe.  (I just picked up Daughter of
    Regals at a used bookstore in Colo. Springs when I was there the other
    week, and its works also posses the same qualities, albiet shorter.  I
    can't imagine why someone got rid of it...)
    
    
    					-mjg
    

Given the fact that I'm seldom reluctant to bash an author, I should take
the time to hand out attaboys as well.

After wading through SIX Thomas Covenant books, what he did to Thomas
Covenant led me to vow never to read another thing Donaldson wrote, and I
half-seriously considered writing him to request a refund. Comments in this
note convinced me to give him one more try. Thank you.

Donaldson has a knack for GOOD storytelling,  and his command of the
language, use of imagery ( what Pun ?  *;^D ) and character definition is
stellar.     PLUS!!! This story is upbeat!

Yo! Chronicles haters... Feel free to relax and enjoy a good read.
Mordant's Need was fun.

Mike J

    One thing that I was pleased with after reading Mordant's Need was that
    Donaldson seems to have got out of the habit of repeating himself.  For
    me, The Chronicles were full of `beating wings' and `I'm a leper'.  I
    know that some of this was intentional, but if you press a point *too*
    often, it soon becomes blunt.
    
    SD's style has improved considerably (in my opinion), but I still find
    his writing a little heavy going.  Also, if he ever pulls off the same
    trick as he did at the end of MoHD, then I'll never buy a book by him
    again.
    
    Mat.
    *:o)
    

>                                      Also, if he ever pulls off the same
>    trick as he did at the end of MoHD, then I'll never buy a book by him
>    again.
    

This schtick (one story taking up multple books) IS getting real old. Its
been discussed elsewhere in this notesfile, and I haven't met anyone who's
particularly happy with this trend. 

Personally, I blame the editors/publishers....an author certainly isn't
going to gripe about making an extra buck. 

I suspect the author shows up with a 400 - 500 page manuscript, and says:
let's go to press. Mr/Ms  editor says: Whoa! Rewrite time; let's add LOTS
of adjectives, plenty of scenery descriptions; read back through and throw
in a simile every chance you get (its okay if its dumb, SF people aren't
that bright to begin with); have the main protagonists make a couple of
non-plot related excursions, in fact, make up a few more characters that
have nothing to do with the plot at all; and ... Hey! Whattayaknow!! TWO
paperback books (3, 4, 5) at $4.95 a pop! 

With that mentality, `War and Peace' would have been a twenty volume set.
Short of refusing to buy the books, we may be stuck with even MORE of this
crap.

Anyone have any ideas? Maybe an electronic petition or something directed
at the various publishers who engage in this practice (Are there any who
don't?).

Mike_who_just_read_back_through_this_and_thinks_it_looks_suspiciously_like_
flames_so_just_in_case_flames_off_proceed_on_impulse_Mr_Sulu

	

   I greatly prefer the longer multi-volume stories over ones which try to
condense too much story and action into a single volume.  I think Donaldson
did a good job with what he's done so far.  I feel that if he tried to cut
any more from his books, they'd lose some (perhaps most!) of their magic -
they're just right.

   For an example of over-writing, take Jack Chalker.  I like his writing
(even though it's always variations on a theme from what I can see), but
they tend to be a little longer than necessary - say 25-33% longer than they
need to be (but not so bad that I won't read them - the "Battlefield Earth"
series absolutely terrifies me from its sheer volume...)

   If you condense too much, you wind up with the ST:TNG problem - trying to
fit 2 hours worth of story into an hour usually.  I think the series is very
good, but it needs more time to develop each story.  I'd certainly sit
still (and tape!) them for 1�-2-hours, if they spent the extra time developing
the story and characters (with attention to story detail, not necessarily
whiz-bang special effects).

					-mjg

                
                minor nit;
                
                battlefield earth was one long book, not a series
                [too bad, it  was  one of my favorites].  mission
                earth  is  the one  you  are  thinking  of.    10
                volumes.    on  another  note,   i  loved  thomas
                covenant,  though while reading wounded land  and
                one tree i got very bored, i  really enjoyed them
                after  completing them.  mohd and amrt were  also
                great,  but  not  as  good  as covenant i though.
                maybe just  because i liked the characters better
                in  tc.    the  ones  in  mn  series  seemed  too
                simplistic.  i like lots of details with wars and
                quests and artifacts etc, mn  was kind of lacking
                in this department though it was  a great pair of
                books, and i would recommend them.
                
                - rob -
                

	I don't object to a story taking more than one volume -- I have
	*never* heard anyone complain about Lord of the Rings taking up
	three books!

	I think the problem is really the way in which the break is made.  
	Mordant's Need followed the obnoxious Zelazny style of stopping in 
	mid-scene.  I agree that Chalker tends to stretch a trilogy into
	5 books (and he's gotten repetitious in his themes), but at least 
	each volume has closure.  You know there'll be more, and you may 
	look forward to it eagerly, but you can live with the possbility
	that it won't be available to you for days or weeks.

	Anyway, to get back to the topic, this break is, IMO, the one 
	serious flaw in MN (hey, isn't it time this topic got its title 
	adjusted?!).  It's easy enough to deal with now, though -- just 
	make sure you have A Man Rides Through at hand before you get 
	into the last few day's worth of Mirror of Her Dreams!

	Beverly

    I know that this isn't quite the right topic to talk about a new S.
    Donaldson book but as I don't know the title yet this will have to do
    for now.
    
    In early November of this year a new Stephen Donaldson book is due to
    be released in hard back. This will be a more hard core science fiction
    book rather than the Amazing Fantasy Worlds he normally creates
    
    I CAN'T WAIT
    
    Happy Reading Folks
    
    	Tahi

    
    *************************** WHAT????!!!!??? ************************
    
    Another Donaldson novel? Superb! 
    
    Does ANYBODY have ANY more info on this? Like :
    
    	- What's it called?
    	- Is it the first of a series, or a one off?
    	- Any rumours about what it's about? (besides "sci-fi")
    	- Release Date?
    	- Miscellaneous background?
    	- ANYTHING????
    
    	Info like this should NOT be kept secret. C'mon, you can tell us...
    
    Peter.