Conference noted::sf

    Gibson: I highly recommend "Neuromancer," "Count Zero," (which is
    kinda a sequel), and especially "Burning Chrome," which is a collection
    of Gibson's short fiction to date. "Count Zero" and "Burning Chrome"
    are both still only available in hardcover I believe.
    
    I believe there are some notes somewhere in this conference that
    deal with both "Neuromancer" and "Count Zero.." Perhaps someone
    less lazy than I can point them out :-).
    
    I'm not familiar with "Mirrorshades," but from the title I'd expect
    that some Gibson works will be in there too. More than likely it
    will duplicate "Burning Chrome."
    
    As far as I'm concerned, Gibson *is* the cyberpunk movement. I'm
    not overly impressed with Sterling, Shirley, or Swanwick's works
    to date.
    
    Fred

    A little more ...
    
    The term "cyberpunk" was coined by Norman Spinrad. I never read
    the article where he originated the term, so I don't know how he
    describes it. Here's how I'd describe it: 
    
    The cyberpunks bear more of a resemblance to the "new wave" movement
    of the `60s than they do to traditional science fiction. However,
    as opposed to the "new wave," cyberpunks tend to deal in traditional
    methods of story-telling - with characters, plots, and a beginning,
    middle, and end to their stories, usually in that order. :-)
    
    Stylistically, cyberpunk books have a lot more in common with the
    movie, "Blade Runner," than the other movies you cite. They usually
    extrapolate a near-future, closely based on the actual technology,
    geopolitics, and social movements of the present. 
    
    Fred

    
    Re .1,.2:
    
                Thanks, Fred.  I believe I'll give them a try.
    
                - Dave
                  
    
    

The August '86 issue of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine has 
an article by Michael Swanwick called "A User's Guide to the 
Post-Moderns: Including the Battle for the Future, Unbridled 
Ambition, the Fate of the Children in the Starship, the 
Cyberpunk-Humanist Wars, Blood Under the Banquet Tables, Metaphors 
Run Amok, and the Destruction of Atlantis!"  He claims that Gardner 
Dozois was the first to use the term 'cyberpunk' in print, but I've 
also heard John Shirley claim its invention.

Be that as it may, the main writers in the movement are William Gibson
("Neuromancer", about hacker-ninjas), Bruce Sterling ("Schismatrix" and
"Swarm", (DNA vs. silicon)), Lucius Shepard ("Green Eyes", biochemical
voodoo zombies), Greg Bear ("Blood Music", (DNA SUPPLANTS silicon),
Connie Willis, Pat Cadigan, and Swanwick himself ("In the Drift",
Three-Mile Island really does melt down). All the stories mentioned
above are worth reading, and have a lot of high-tech glitz.  It's the 
New Wave, man; catch it or drift forever amidst your rockets and unicorns.

/jlr

    From the descriptions of 'cyberpunk', would anyone care to comment
    on the status of Mack Reynolds as a 'cyberpunk' ?  His Rex Bader
    and ~Cities (Rollertown, PolicePatrol 2000, et al) series.

Any idea if any (all) of the Gibson books are available in England
in softback ??  (or at all!!!!)

ta

peb

    Peter
    		try "Forbidden Planet" in Denmark St., London, W1. Phone no.
    is 01-836-4179. If they ain't got 'em, they'll order 'em.
    
    Andy

    .6: You can get NUEROMANCER in any bookshop in Reading, in Grafton
    paperbacks.
    
    

A fine example of the subgenre is now being serialized in IASFM:
"Vacuum Flowers" by Michael Swanwick.  It's got oppressive capitalism 
out in the asteroid belt, lots of neural reprogramming (people plug 
in new personalities the way we plug in CDs),  gengineers from Dyson 
trees out in the Oort cloud, and a heroine on the run from assasins.
Looks good, judging from the first installment.

/jlr

    	Philip K. Dick had a similar device which controlled emotions
    in DO ANDROIDS DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP? - better known in some circles
    as BLADE RUNNER.
    
    	These emotion machines were needed, as the world was so depressing
    to live in, most everyone would probably have committed suicide
    without them. 
    
    	Larry
    

    Just read "The Glass Hammer" by K.W. Jeter (I'm sure of the 
    last name, not the initials). Advertised on the cover as
    the cyberpunk sensation. **1/2  Not in a class with Gibson,
    but showing promise. 
    
    Also read latest ACE Special - "The Hercules Text" by Jack
    Mcdevitt (sp?). Not punk just very astute.

    I noticed that "Cyberpunks" also appear in the DC comics "Blue Beetle".

    
    Where can I get a copy of any of these Cyberpunk novels.  I'm very
    interested in reading it but I just can't find them (local bookstores).
    Do you have to go to some special sf bookstore or what? 
    
    

    RE: -1
    
    Some (but not all) of the books noted in previous replies are still
    in hardcover release only. In those cases your best options would
    be to either special order them through any bookstore, check your
    local library, or locate a speciality science fiction bookstore in
    your area (look under BOOK DEALERS - RETAIL or BOOK DEALERS - USED
    & RARE in the Yellow Pages). Or if you note where you're located, I
    wouldn't be surprised if I or someone else couldn't give a pointer
    to a speciality shop within driving distance.
    
    In the case of paperbacks, most of the chains (B. Dalton, Booksmith,
    et al;) seem to be carrying Gibson, Sterling, and Swanwick's books,
    as well of those of other cyberpunks. It's mostly a case of regularly
    checking these stores, as their distribution system stinks; they
    order a few copies, if they person putting them on the shelves that
    day isn't on drugs the books *might* end up both in the correct
    area and alphabetized correctly (but don't count on it), and once
    they sell those copies they seldom reorder quickly -- if at all.
    
    Finally, one other option for the hard-to-find book (especially
    hardcovers) is to go to a convention, such as the upcoming BOSKONE in 
    Boston, and check out the dealer's room. I've probably picked up
    90% of my hardcover first-editions at conventions.
    
    Fred

Re .4:
    
    For those who are wondering about the attribution of "cyberpunk"
    to Norm Spinrad, his book review column in IASFM (Sept or Oct '86?)
    cites both the Swanwick piece and Dozois.  Spinrad himself, however,
    prefers to call Gibson et al "Neuromantics".

    Although Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" is in some ways
    a precursor of the cyberpunk universe, it is in the overall spirit and
    mood rather than any of the particular details (the visual setting of
    "Blade Runner" carries it even further). 
    
    Specifically, the mood organ (?) used in "DADoES" is used to produce
    specific alterations of emotional states.  The personality programming
    "wetware" in "Vacuum Flowers" literally lets you become someone
    else for either recreational or "professional" purposes.  This latter
    use (creating instant expertise) is quite similar to Larry Nivens
    use of RNA-assisted learning in "Rammer"/"Time Out of Mind" 
    
     
    

    I'm about halfway through MIRRORSHADES (see .0) and it's excellent,
    imho. Good introduction to the cyberpunk/neuromantic/mirrorshade
    (think I like the last term the best) movement with a nice 
    representation of lesser-known writers. The big guns are in there,
    too, for that matter. The intro by Bruce Sterling is almost worth
    the price of admission by itself. Highly recommended.
    
    Fred                                        

    
    Another "yea" vote for MIRRORSHADES, especially if you like
    the variety of a short-story anthology.  My favorites were
    "Solstice,"  "The 400 Boys," "Till Human Voices Wake Us," and
    "The Gernsbach Continuum."  I really didn't understand the point
    behind "Petra" (perhaps I didn't understand the obtuse theological
    symbolism), and in a couple of others the style-to-substance
    ratio was a bit high (especially in "Freezone"), but overall the
    book is well worth the price for Cyberpunk fans, even in hardcover.
    

    According to LOCUS, William Gibson has a new short story in this
    month's issue of "High Times" magazine (supposedly went on sale Oct. 
    16th). The story is an excerpt from Gibson's new novel, which will be 
    released sometime in 1988.
    
    I've so far been unable to locate a copy of "High Times" in the
    Merrimack, NH area - possibly because people into recreational drugs
    keep a low profile in New Hampshire :-). Conversation with various
    store owners goes something like:
    
    ME: Do you carry High Times?
    
    THEM: I don't know, what's it about? Ballooning?
    
    ME: No it's about <mumble, mumble>
    
    THEM: What?
    
    ME: It's about marijuana!!! (shocked looks. Parents gather up children)
        But I don't usually read it. 
    
    THEM: Yeah, and you buy PLAYBOY for the articles ...
    
    <sigh>
    
    Fred

    You might try the Nashua, NH Public Library.  They used to take
    "High Time"  (I'm not kidding!)
    
    Nancy 
    

Path: muscat!decwrl!labrea!rutgers!daemon
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: SUMMARY: Cyberpunk info
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 3 Nov 87 03:20:45 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Lines: 109
 
From: [email protected]
 
    Hi all.  Here is a summary of Cyberpunk info sent to me by various
people.  Unfortunately, my site does not get alt.cyberpunk, or this
information would be more complete. So, this is for all the folks who
don't get alt.cyberpunk and are curious about it. 
 
    I would appreciate it if people who *do* get to read alt.cyberpunk
would correct or update the following.  Also, I hope people will
include sf-lovers in some cyberpunk discussions -- at a minimum, it
would be good to hear about new books. 
 
	-- Bob Gruber
	ARPA: [email protected]
	UUCP: ucbvax!hplabs!parcvax!gruber
 
    Q:  What is cyberpunk?

    (I didn't ask this question, but two people gave definitions...)
Some people think that cyberpunk has been around for quite some time,
but recently got a lot of hype because of William Gibson's
NEUROMANCER.  There is an argument as to whether it is a movement, or
just hype.  If it is a movement, at least it has a name now -- names
can do a lot for a movement.  (Where would we be if no one had
invented the name Yuppie?) 
 
    DEFN 1:  Cyberpunk is loosely defined to be a near-future
anti-utopia where the horrors of high-tech have landed.  The movie
BLADERUNNER and the TV series MAX HEADROOM are visual versions. [from
Randall B. Neff] 

    DEFN 2:  Cyberpunk is the name given by editor Gardener Dozios to
a group of sf writers whose work is centered on a world where the
increasingly rapid advance of technology obliterates right and wrong,
good and evil, human and non-human and several other things. . . In an
interview, Bruce Sterling described the intent of cyberpunk as:
"getting in bed with the technology."  From a literary viewpoint, the
style of writing is visually oriented, the prose rapidfire and more
mature than the garden-variety 'heroes and monsters' drivel. [from
Bill Humphries] 
 
    On to the questions I set forth:
 
    1. Did Gibson invent this sub-genre?

    It seems (from all of the info I got on pre-cursors) that he
didn't "invent" cyberpunk.  Gibson and Bruce Sterling were mentioned
by a number of people as the "guiding lights" of the recent cyberpunk
trend, however. 
 
    2. What novels are precursors to this sub-genre?  The following
were all suggestions... 

	+ Alfred Bester: anything, esp:
		THE STARS MY DESTINATION
		THE DEMOLISHED MAN
	+ Samuel Delany: NOVA  (people "jacking-in")
		maybe BABEL-17?
	+ John Brunner:
		STAND ON ZANZIBAR
		SHOCKWAVE RIDER
		SHEEP LOOK UP
		STONE THAT NEVER CAME DOWN
	+ Phillip K. Dick: DO ANDROIDS DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP?
	+ Harry Harrison: MAKE ROOM, MAKE ROOM
	+ Larry Niven:  (Gil the ARM stories)
	+ George Orwell: 1984
	+ Vernor Vinge: TRUE NAMES
		
    3. What authors do you think influened its creation?  Lots of
suggestions... 
 
    Alfred Bester, John Brunner, Pat Cadigan, Raymond Chandler, Samuel
Delaney, Harlan Ellison, Rudy Rucker, Lew Shiner, John Shirley, Norman
Spinrad, Bruce Sterling, Vernor Vinge 
 
    4. Have other writers tried Gibson's universe yet?
 
    Michael Swanwick's VACUUM FLOWERS is supposed to be very close to
Gibson's universe. 
 
    5. Where else have you seen cyberpunk (movies, etc.)?

    BLADERUNNER and M-M-MAX were mentioned.
 
    Many people sent "suggested reading"....

	+ Pat Cadigan: MIND PLAYERS
	+ William Gibson: NEUROMANCER, COUNT ZERO, BURNING CHROME
	+ Rudy Rucker: SOFTWARE
	+ Lewis Shiner: FRONTERA
	+ Norman Spinrad: STREET MAN
	+ Bruce Sterling:
		SCHISMATRIX "and other Shaper/Mechanism books"
		editor of: MIRRORSHADES, the CYBERPUNK ANTHOLOGY
	+ Michael Swanwick: VACUUM FLOWERS
	+ Walter John Williams: HARDWIRED and VOICE OF THE WHIRLWIND
 
    Not quite cyberpunk but follows the idea...

	+ Greg Bear: BLOOD MUSIC, EON, and THE FORGE OF GOD
	+ Rudy Rucker: WHITE LIGHT and THE 57TH FRANZ KAFKA
 
    P.S.  Laura Crook mentions the following:  there is a new
magazine, "Science Fiction EYE", which had a premiere issue dedicated
to cyberpunk (issues, people, books to read, interviews with Sterling
and Gibson, etc.).  It can be ordered at:  SF EYE, Box 3105,
Washington, DC 20010-0105.  1 yr for $7, 2 yrs for $15.  (Obviously I
have no affiliation with the magazine; if I did I would know a lot
more than I do about cyberpunk!) 

Path: muscat!decwrl!sun!pitstop!sundc!seismo!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Cyberpunk Vocabulary
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 1 Feb 88 04:03:05 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 94
XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.2433
  
    The following is brought to you courtesy of Cyberpunk
International.  Any additions are welcome.  Send them to {...dexvax,
ucbvax, hplabs, seismo,decwrl}! sun!portal.cup.com!DrOdd and I will
post them for the rest of you Cyberspace jockeys. 
  
                         Cyberpunk Vocabulary 
 
Big Black - Space. The final frontier. Where no man...you get the idea.
 
Bit Jockey - Programmer
 
Chrome - 1) Flash, glitter, bells and whistles, tinsel. Material used
to spice up the appearance of something. 2) Sexy features on a
program, not needed for functionality but radiating style (e.g. a
guillotine instead of a trash can icon). 
 
Cyberspace - 1) The conceptual space within a computer. 2) The
conceptual medium within which computer communication takes place,
e.g. Electronic Bulletin Boards, online services, databases, or in
general the program space of any computer which can run a
communication program. 
 
Deep Reality - The real world we live in. As opposed to the realities
we create for ourselves within our minds (e.g. fantasy games) and in
our processors (e.g. Cyberspace). 
 
Glass Teat - TV and video in general. Coined by Harlan Ellison.
 
Hackware - Software produced by amateurs. Distinguished by the fact
that it works and is ready 2 years before the professional version.
Characterized by non-standard code, lack of comments, and great
chrome. 
 
Latch Jockey - Digital hardware designer
 
Nerdlings - Immature nerds, implying inconsequential, generally
annoying. Pejorative term. 
 
Pods - People who are very much alike in thought, behavior, and
appearance. Pejorative term. Also Podlings - particularly immature
variations of the Pods. 
 
Screamsheet - Newspaper, especially one catering to non-issues of the
minute (e.g. USA Today,  National Enquirer). Coined by Walter Jon
Williams 
 
Spit Jockey - On camera (video) news reader, anchor, host. (also known
as Talking Heads) 
 
Splash - To shoot down.  E.g. to splash an idea, or "Splash that bastard!"
 
Wetware - 1) human augmentation mechanisms based on biochemical
methods. E.g. biochemical processors, custom crafted DNA, custom
biological tissue, brain implants/grafts,mind/body altering drugs
(rare). As opposed to hardware which is based on artificial, physics
based methods, e.g. chips. 2) The human brain. 
 
Wirehead - Someone addicted to computers or electronic communication
(e.g. a person who would rather hack then eat or have sex). 
 
Lizard Brain -  a cold, calculating, unemotional person, somebody
always running in pure floating point mode (e.g. Mr. Spock). 
 
Mentat - Brainy individual, specifically one who will stare at a
problem without moving for a while and come up with an answer without
doing any apperent intermediate steps (like writing things down) 
 
Ray-Ban Mode - wearing shades.
 
Reduction - Slang for physical violence (e.g. "Hey *ssh*l*, shut down
(c.f.) your screamer (c.f.) or I'll reduce your face!"). See also
packing, spindling, stomping, etc.. 
 
Screamer - 1) Slang for mouth (e.g. "Hey *ssh*l*, shut down (c.f.)
your screamer!" 2) Something fast, sleek, and sexy, used as an
expression of admiration (e.g. "She/He/It's a real screamer!) 3)
Somebody who screams a lot while being reduced (c.f.) 4) Somebody who
screams a lot while being tightly interfaced (c.f.) 
 
Shortwire - To burn out, flame out, splash down and generally crash mentally.
 
Shut Down - to shut up, used as an exclimation (e.g. "Hey *ssh*l*, shut down!")
 
Techno Scum -  A personally very unpleasent, but technically brilliant
individual. 
 
The Scroll - 1) The constant, unremitting, and overwhelming barrage of
information absorbed by everyone in modern society from the modern
media, from Cyberspace feed, from the grapevine, and from any other
means we have of tuning in to the world state. (E.g. we find out about
the latest war in the Middle East, the latest hardware, the latest
vaporware from The Scroll.) 2) The term used to describe the messages,
bulletins, and other data daily being produced and scrolled off
various Cyberspace systems. 
 
Tight Interfacing - Sex

    How could he leave out 'flatlined'?  A favorite term from "Neuromancer".

    Some more Gibson news: According to the February issue of LOCUS,
    Gibson has sold the movie rights to his forthcoming book, "New Rose
    Hotel" which should be released this Spring. This makes the third
    Gibson work which has been optioned. The other two are "Neuromancer,"
    and "Burning Chrome" (the short story, not the anthology of the
    same name). It's more likely we'll see "New Rose Hotel" before either
    of the other two - if any are ever actually released.
    
    Fred

    I want to make a *strong* recommendation for Richard Kadrey's
    "METROPHAGE" (ACE, February 1988, $2.95), which is certainly the
    best sf novel I've read in the last 12 months. Although having many
    of the common cyberpunk elements, Kadrey's book is *beyond* cyberpunk.
    It should shake up the field and be a strong Hugo contender. If you
    like cyberpunk, or just want a good example of what cyberpunk can
    be when taken to the limit - by someone who *isn't* William Gibson
    for a change - take a look at METROPHAGE.
    
    Fred

Path: muscat!decwrl!sun!pitstop!sundc!seismo!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!DrOdd
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Cyberpunk References
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 14 Feb 88 20:00:40 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 68
XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.2433
 
    What follows are some Cyberpunk media references compiled by
Cyberpunk International.  Not all of them are totally Cyberpunk. 
There is disagreement about some of these, but all of them have some
cyberpunk elements, even if it is nothing more then a certain mood. 
Even if the definition of Cyberpunk is a little strained by some of
them, this is a valuble list for anybody who wants to know what
Cyberpunk is all about.  If you have anything to add, I would be
obliged if you sent me e-mail so that I can share it with everybody
else.  Enjoy. 
 
#####################################
 
    Some Cyberpunk References
  
     Fiction Literature
 
*"Neuromancer" by William Gibsen
*"Count Zero" by William Gibsen
*"Hardwired" by Walter Jon Williams
*"Voice of the Whirlwind" by Walter Jon Williams
*"Burning Chrome" short stories by William Gibsen
*"The Artificial Kid" by Bruce Sterling
*"Schismatrix" by Bruce Sterling
*"Mirrorshades: The Cyberpunk Anthology" edited by Bruce Sterling
*"Shockwave Rider" by John Brunner
*Vaccum Flowers by Michael Swanwick
*"Dr. Adder" by J.K. Jeter
*"Software" by Rudy Rucker
*"Nova" by Samuel Delany
*"The Running Man" by Richard Bachman
*"A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess
*"Nova Express" by William Burroughs
*"Nova" by Samuel Delaney
*"Little Heroes" by Norman Spinard
*"When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger
*"Eclipse" by John Shirley
 
 
    Non Fiction Literature
 
*"The Media Lab: Inventing the Future at MIT" by Steward Brand
*"The Third Wave" by Alvin Toffler
*"Future Shock" by Alvin Toffler
*"Technologies of Freedom: On Free Speech on an Electronic Age" by Ithiel de 
Sola Pool
 
    Films
 
Bladerunner
Repo Man
Liquid Sky
Cafe Flesh
Mad Max
The Road Warrior
Mad Max III: Beyond Thunderdome
The Terminator
Alien
Videodrome
Scanners
Robocop
Rollerball
 
 
    Video
 
Max Headroom (ABC Series)
Alive From Off Center (PBS Series)

    Recent entries include "CORPSMAN" by Joel Henry Sherman and "A DEATH OF
    HONOR" by Joe Faust. The latter is a bit on the cyberpunk fringe (at
    least from my vague understanding of the term!) but definitely good
    reading. 
    
    Andrew 

    Hi,

    Has anyone come across BURNING CHROME in the UK. NEUROMANCER and COUNT
    ZERO are both widely available but I can seem to get BURNING CHROME
    anywhere (even in Forbidden Planet).

	Colin.
    

    Hah! I have one for you.  "Streetlethal" by Steven Barnes. Light
    on the "cyber" however. 
    
    I seem to recall a short story called "The Software Plague" that
    was YMC (Yet More Cyberpunk), but I can't remember the author...
    				- HBM

Re  < Note 416.28 by FORTY2::MCCARTNEY "Colin McCartney, MB Development" >




Still having trouble ?, I got my copy of BC from a (chain)
book shop in darkest Swindon


Peb

    re .30

    Hi,

    Yes thanks, just got a copy last weekend from a Bookshop in Ayr. Looks
    like it's just been published - took a long time to make it over here.

    Thanks,
	Colin.
    

    
    "Cyberpunk and Psychelia" is the title of a mini-preview of a new
    interactive fiction game being written by Timothy Leary (yes that
    Dr. Leary).  The game is being based on Gibson's _Neuromancer_.
    But more importantly this review was in a computer magazine.  I
    also noticed in a previous issue of premiere that cyberpunk was
    being used to describe the environment of some movies. Bladerunner
    was one of the mentioned films.  Is this term being accepted outside
    the SF world (not to imply that it was accepted within SF)?  Gibson,
    in an interview published in the now DEFUNCT SF EYE, cited labels
    like cyberpunk as marks that some genres of writing are becoming
    too popularized and hence lose their impact and meaning through
    commonalty (sp?)
    
    If anyone is interested too, I wrote a paper for school this past
    semester that was on Cyberpunk and its thematic relation with other
    more accepted literary works.  If anyone is interested I could post
    it or rather leave a pointer to it..(it is kinda long 24 double
    spaced pages or so)
    
    brad

       Re: list of novels in .26 - here is a worthy (in my opinion)
    addition - "Dreams of Flesh and Sand" by W.T. Quick...excellent
    novel, really picks up on the cyberpunk mentality, if you will...
    Flesh alluding to the human body, sand to silicon...
    
    Scott
     

       Also...recently released is a new role-playing game from R.
    Talsorian (sp?) Games titled "Cyberpunk - Role-playing in the Dark
    Future"...a friend picked this up at a recent con here in Atlanta,
    and it looks quite interesting...very much in the mind-set of Gibson
    and Williams novels (which are listed in the game's bibliography).
    
    Scott
    

    Another vote for "Dreams of Flesh and Sand" - great descriptive
    imagery, neat twisted plot - I liked it a lot.
    
    Anyone know of anything else that's been published by the author,
    W.T. Quick?
    
    -Jody
    

    re:.35
    
    Just a bunch of short stories in the sf magazines.
    
    --- jerry

    Re .25 and "Metrophage", I just finished reading it. On Fred's
    recommendation in .25, as a matter of fact. I don't share his 
    positive feelings about the book. The intro made it sound as though
    every third phrase would be a polished gem, and there were some.
    I can't put my finger on precisely why I didn't respond more favorably,
    and I'm not saying it was a poor read.
    
    - Richard

    RE. 37
    
    I should probably note that of my friends who have read "Metrophage,"
    most -- like Richard -- haven't shared my marked enthusiasm for the 
    book. I may have gone overboard in my recommendation, both here
    and in my OtherRealms review, and may have inadvertently set
    expectations too high. Nevertheless, I still strongly recommend
    it to anyone interested in the dreaded c-word genre. 
    
    Some related punkish thots:
    
    I recently received a copy of The Mississppi Review issue 47/48,
    a special cyberpunk issue entitled "Desert of the Real." Reviews,
    commentary and fiction by most of the major Movement players (the
    fiction is almost all reprints, albeit from some obscure sources).
    Recommended.
    
    I finished Gibson's "Mona Lisa Overdrive" last night. I'll probably
    do an OR review of it, so I won't get very detailed here and now,
    but basically: I have mixed feelings about it. Gibson seems much
    more polished and in control of his characters than ever before,
    but I thought the plot of MLO the weakest of the three books which
    make up the Sprawl "trilogy," if you'll excuse the phrase. While
    many of the chapters read like small, dense gems, the overall storyline
    seemmed fragmentary and, uh, sprawling. :-) I was also quite
    disappointed in the ending which I thought -- without spoiling it
    for anyone -- pure deus ex machina and the sort of thing Gibson
    and the other Movement leaders would rail against if anyone else
    did it.
    
    I'd be interested in seeing other opinions as people read the book.
    
    And finally, someone in rec.arts.cyberpunk is beginning to move
    issues of CHEAP TRUTH online (Note: Sterling deliberately and
    publicly advised that CHEAP TRUTH *was not* copyrighted). I think
    they're interesting even at this late date and will be reposting
    them in a separate note.
    
    Fred

    re .38
    
    I liked Metrophage quite a bit.  (I also liked your story in the
    Spectrum collection (it was you, wasn't it?), so maybe this is just
    another case of great minds wallowing in the same gutters.)
    
    I just started Mona Lisa Overdrive, so far it's interesting if not
    compelling.  At $17.95 for the hardcover, only diehard Gibson fans
    are likely to forego waiting for the paperback.
                  
    len.
    

    RE: .39
    
    It was me in the FULL SPECTRUM collection. Thanks for the kind
    words.
    
    >so maybe this is just
    >another case of great minds wallowing in the same gutters.)
    
    Dunno. I like to read most of the cyberpunk authors, but my writing
    is about as far away from it as you can get and not be one of the
    Space Cadets. :-)
    
    Fred                                             

    re .40 re .39 - I didn't mean to suggest that you wrote in that
    "c-word" style, but rather that we seemed to have the same tastes
    (I mean, you *do* like your own stuff, don't you?).
    
    len.
    

    RE: .41
    
    "Like" is probably not the right word. It's more the feeling you
    might have toward your two-year-old son/daughter who's just flushed
    your favorite pair of slippers down the toilet -- "loving despair,"
    so to speak. :-)
    
    Fred

    Re: .40, you mean you're NOT a space cadet?
                                 
    Re: .42, the feeling of "loving despair" changes over time, i.e.,
    when your two-year-old son/daughter moves on from flushing your
    slippers down the toilet to a 14-year old chemical/hormone factory.
    
    Minor digression, but I have "grown up" with Bill Cosby. His album
    and live performance material have changed over time. Instead of
    talking about his brother when they were kids, he now talks about his
    teen-age children and his altered physiology. I find my analogies
    are also changing to parallel the stage of life I currently "enjoy".
    Hence the reference to the 14-year old hormone factory, who is
    currently inside arguing with the rapidly deteriorating wife.
    
    - Richard

    Getting back to cyberpunk -
    
    has anyone else here read any of john shirley's new series -
    A song called Youth.  I just finished it and was rather pleased.
    It starts out slow, put if you love cyberpunk, it is definitly worth
    the time to pick up the first book and read it.
    
    to date the books out are:
    
    Eclipse
    
    and Eclipse Penumbler (I think, i haven't read it yet, but it looks
    to be as good as eclipse, if not better.)
    
    grins.
    
    clark.

    The New York Times had a front page story a few days ago (sorry, 
    I don't have the exact date) about computer crackers.   Somehow 
    the reporter thought they called themselves cyberpunks.  I've never
    heard anyone apply the term to themselves, which made me 
    suspicious of the whole article.  It had several other minor 
    inaccuracies as well, such as claiming that the NSA stopped the 
    Morris virus.  It's interesting how wrong even respectable media 
    outlets can be when they're talking about something with which 
    you're familiar.
    
    /jlr

    
    the usenet group alt.cyberpunk is currently being archived in the
    notesfile TAPE::ALT_CYBERPUNK.  Press KP7 to add it.
    
    brad
    

    	The February 19, 1989 edition of THE (SUNDAY) BOSTON GLOBE
    MAGAZINE has an excellent article on the cyberpunk genre starting
    on page 18.  Entitled "The Cyberpunk Controversy", it is written
    by John Aloysius Farrell and consists mostly of an interview with
    William Gibson, plus an excellent background into the cyberpunk
    movement and its influence on SF.  There is also a picture of Gibson
    standing in front of a domed glass building reminisent of the Sprawl.
    
    	Larry
    

    RE: .47
    
    I'd dispute that it's "excellent." It was mostly a rather
    dated rehash of information (and some misinformation) about Gibson 
    and the genre. As one for instance, Farrell continually refers to
    MIRRORSHADES as if it were still on the leading edge of c-fiction,
    rather than the two-year-old anthology it actually is.
    
    On the other hand, if you didn't happen to know *anything* about
    cyberpunk, I suppose the article might provide a good place to start.
    
    Fred

    Given all this media attention, it's not surprising that the
    latest  Asimov's has an article about the death of cyberpunk. 
    It's by  Norman Spinrad, who points out that most of the authors 
    associated with it have moved on to something else.  Gibson's
    novels are still set in the same world, but are no longer
    exclusively  about the underclass.  Sterling has  burned out on
    Cheap Truth, and wrote a more conventional novel called "Islands
    in the Net".  It keeps the cyberpunk theme of a wired  world, but
    has a middle-class heroine and a less flashy style. Lewis Shiner
    has written a novel heavy with apocalyptic violence, "Deserted
    Cities of the Heart", but it's not even science fiction. Rudy
    Rucker is still out on the edge, but he was only included in the
    genre because he was the right age and no one knew where else to
    put him.  Walter Jon Williams wrote two cyberpunk novels, 
    "Hard-wired" and "The Voice of the Whirlwind", but he can write 
    in any style and in fact has lately been imitating P. G. Wodehouse.
    The movement seems to have evolved out of existence just as the 
    literati found out about it.  That's fine, though; you've got to stay 
    one step ahead of the mundanes.
    
    /jlr

    Re .49  "...you've got to stay one step ahead of the mundanes."
    
    Right.  Otherwise, how can you constitute yourselves an ethnic group?
    
    ESW

    Y'know, the thought occurred to me whilst reading Evelyn Leaper's
    BOSKONE review that I haven't *even* read a "steam-punk" novel 
    yet ... and I'm already tired of hearing about it. :-)
    
    Fred

    re: .38 etc. and Gibson's "Mona Lisa Overdrive"
    
        I just finished this book, and I had very mixed reactions. 
        But, first a spoiler for those of you who don't want to know
        "who dun it"...
    
    
        I was really glad to see Molly and the Count and Angie back again.
        With the lack of characters carried from "Nueromancer" to "Count
        Zero", I wasn't expecting to see any of these characters again.
    
        His style was similar to the two earlier books, which reminds me of
        the editing style of music videos--brief glimpses of several story
        lines interleaved and building to some common climax.  This seemed
        to use that trick again, but even more so. The chapters were so
        short that they seemed to constantly be switching, just when I was 
        getting into the scene. 
    
        He also seemed to go into more explanation about some of the pheno-
        mena encountered in the two earlier books--such as the Legba and
        those manifestations.  Seemed he was trying to justify some of his
        earlier suppositions.
    
        And finally, I found the ending to be very disappointing.  I'm
        amazed that the "C..." crowd didn't howl in collective agony with
        that ending.  It certainly was a switch from the tone of the rest
        of the three novels.
    
        Still, it was a moderately good read, and I felt it gave some
        degree of closure to several of the major storylines from the 
        "Sprawl" books.

    There's a computer game called _Neuromancer_, based on the book.  I
    never read the book because I found the magazine stories unappealing
    (too much weirdness).  However, the game is excellent, either the best
    or second best computer game I have seen.  Your character moves around
    a city, collects information and objects, and uses databases.  One has
    to find database link codes, passwords, skill chips, software of
    various types, money, and so on.  The interfaces to the databases are
    done well enough so that suspension of disbelief is fairly easy -- even
    when it is time to use your Sequencer software to generate/"figure-out"
    a database's password.  You see the characters of the password cycling
    through all the combinations, one character at a time, until the entire
    password is figured out -- just like the movies.  At other times, you
    have to send an electronic mail message to another character in the
    game, and you get an answering message giving you information (like
    database link codes) or money (via your bank account).  Or you edit the
    arrest warrants in the city police database so that a particular
    character will be taken out of your way.
    
    It's a very good implementation of a fictional world.
    
    
    				-- edp

         <<< TURRIS::NOTE$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EASYNET_CONFERENCES.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< EasyNet Conference Directory >-
================================================================================
Note 2243.2                       Alt.Cyberpunk                           2 of 2
ALAZIF::WHERRY "Hired Codeslinger"                    7 lines  16-JUL-1989 16:47
                      -< alt_cyberpunk was closed today. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Due to resource shortage and lack of interest I had to close the conference 
today.  I am keeping a copy of the notesfile around for two weeks.  If anybody
wants a copy then send mail.  I would heartily recommend using VNEWS  or XRN
to read alt.cyberpunk for those still interested.

brad

    What a difference an author makes!  In the latest (Nov, 89) Asimov's I
    ran across 2 'cyberpunk' shorts.  The first was by Robert Silverberg,
    called CHIP RUNNER, and was (IMHO) dreck.  I kept running across things
    like MOSFETs with feature sizes of a millionth of a meter, then "maybe
    a billion of them arranged side by side".  Seems to me that gives you a
    chip a kilometer across.....
    
    Then there's something called Dogwalker by Orson Scott Card ("But hey!"
    you protest, "Card doesn't write cyberpunk!"  Too bad, this is
    excellent.)   Of course everything he writes is excellent, and I never
    thought I'd see him doing something like this, but he really pulls it
    off well.
    
    Willie

Re: 46

Is this conference still active i.e. TAPE::ALT_CYBERPUNK ? I get login 
information invalid at remote node.

    
    I think TAPE::ALT_CYBERPUNK is defunct; however, if you install the
    software for VNEWS, you can get alt.cyberpunk directly from the
    USENET. Check out the NEWS-BACKBONE conference for directions on 
    connecting to USENET.

no, the conference was shelved when the roll-usenet distribution was shut down.
since then I don't work for the people who own TAPE::.  However:

alt.cyberpunk.*  (there are about 2 or 3 groups now, devoted from things fictional
to things factual. eg. virtual reality systems) are available from all the
USENET news servers on the easynet (and the corporate IP network as well I 
think.)  See the notesfile UPSAR::NEWS-BACKBONE for information on how to
access USENET News.

brad

    	"There is no such thing as Cyberpunk, though there are a lot of
    imitations." - William Gibson
    

I'm only halfway through this topic, but one author who seems to have been
overlooked in the cyberpunk discussion is John Varley. In particular, his story
"Overdrawn At the Memory Bank" was very much a cyberspace/wetware kind of
experience (there was a movie made of it which I have seen at the video store,
but the hype on the back does not entice me to rent it - look what they did to
"Millenium"). His stories of life on the moon, with artificial disneylands (note
the generic term) for recreation are similar to some of Gibson's work, just
with less caffeine. "Blue Champagne" also had some good stories, including one
which might be viewed as the cyberspace in infancy (born at the NSA).

    Agreed on Varley. His "Press Enter" is a much better informed and more
    thrilling computer-perversion story than most of the genre's. 
    
    What's the title of the "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank" movie? Sounds
    great! Is that the one where a guy has been instantiated (good word!)
    twice, i.e. his memories are placed in a clone, and when he complains
    to the police about the bloody fight he's just been in, they observe
    "There's only one blood type smeared on these walls, sir." Oooh, that
    wasn't clear at all: the two versions of this guy are both fighting for
    survival, because statutes limit a given set of genes to one person.

    re:.61
    
    The film version of "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank" has the same
    title as the story. It wasn't a feature film, however, but a
    one-hour or so production done for PBS circa 1985, starring
    Raul Julia. It was a pretty poor adaptation, and not very good
    besides.
    
    It's been a while since I read the story, but the basic thrust
    of it is similar to "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale"/TOTAL
    RECALL. A person's memory is downloaded into a computer, and
    worked into a fantasy scenario (ex. a big game hunt in Africa,
    or something). When the scenario is completed, the memory is
    uploaded back into the person's mind, and they feels like they've
    really been on the hunt (or whatever). In the story, one such
    "vacationer" is downloaded, and then something happens to his
    body, so he's "trapped" in the computer until they can clone him
    a new one.
    
    --- jerry

    Re .62
    
    I remember the story (in both text and TV) a bit differently. 
    Revelations after the blank space.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    [Spoiler warning]
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    The vacationer's mind (not just memory) is downloaded into a real animal
    (not just a computer).  Since our hero couldn't pay for an expensive
    vacation, he got loaded into an elderly female baboon.  The animal's
    mind goes right on running the body; the human mind rides along
    passively.
    
    When vacation time was up, our hero was extracted from the baboon only
    to find no body waiting for him.  It took him a while to realize what
    was going on; the mind-tour agency, terribly embarassed at misplacing
    his body, started out by loading him into a simulation of his own
    apartment.  Thanks to the higher speed of computers vs. neurons, he got
    through a day or so of office and commuting routines before a
    programmer had a chance to hit the RETURN key and start up some
    software that interfaced with him to explain the situation.
    
    The software communicated images of the programmer, a lady with whom 
    the hero proceeds to fall in love.  She appears to him on (his
    simulated) TV, as a fleeting phantom, etc.  After she first explains
    the situation to him, he finds that the simulated environment runs very
    largely on his expectations; with a little practice, he can mold it to
    his every whim.  Weeks and months go by.  He gets more and more whimsical, 
    until the programmer appears to him and warns him that he could drive 
    himself into psychosis this way, and still be good and crazy after they 
    find his body, or even disintegrate entirely.  He then tries to curb his 
    fantasies, but finds this predictably hard to do.
    
    His interior battle is resolved when they finally relocate his body
    (accidentally shipped off for a sex-change operation but rescued in the
    nick of something or other), and cark him back into it.  He instantly
    asks the programmer out for a date, but she asks if she could go home
    and rest first -- for her, it's been one hectic afternoon.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

Article: 4376
From: [email protected] (Steve Brock)
Subject: Reviews of two new books on cyberculture
Sender: [email protected] (The Daily Planet)
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 18:15:44 GMT
 
CYBERIA: LIFE IN THE TRENCHES OF HYPERSPACE by Douglas Rushkoff. 
HarperCollins Publishers, 10 E. 53rd St., N.Y., NY 10022-5299,
(800) 242-7737, (800) 822-4090 FAX.  Index, notes, selected
bibliography.  262 pp., $22.00 cloth.  0-06-251010-X
 
MOTHER OF STORMS by John Barnes.  Tor Books, 175 Fifth Ave, N.Y.,
NY 10010, (800) 221-7945, (212) 420-9314 FAX.  432 pp., $22.95
cloth.  0-312-85560-5
 
                             REVIEW
 
     Summer reading material, especially that taken on a vacation
trip, occasionally becomes an integral part of the journey, turning
it into an adventuresome expedition.  To illustrate, here are some
of my experiences with the above titles, which turned a family
sight-seeing trip down the west coast (from Vancouver, Canada to
Tijuana, Mexico) into a William Gibsonesque jacked-in techno-quest.

     According to Rushkoff in "Cyberia," a myriad of cyberspace
denizens have carved a cultural niche in the San Francisco area,
hooked into bulletin boards and the Internet, attending raves where
psychedelic drugs are in abundance (the straighter ones go to smart
bars or ingest anti-Alzheimer's pills imported from Europe), and
solving complex theoretical problems on their computers with a
snort of vasopressin.  Generation X has taken elements of the 60s
and married them to the net.  

     As I read the book, I was nearing San Francisco, and my wife
and I decided to undertake our own cybernetic journey by going to
two of the places mentioned in the book: Big Heart City and
Elfland.  Unfortunately, Big Heart City (a place where Timothy
Leary has reputedly partied with R. U. Sirius) was out of business. 

     Also disappointingly, most of Elfland, a "visionquest hot
spot" for mushroom trippers in a forested area on the U.C. Santa
Cruz campus, had been destroyed by the construction of a new campus
building.  After a thorough reconnaissance, we did, though, find an
Elfland outpost sequestered in a dark valley.  The burned stump of
a tree had been covered with branches, creating a mysterious haven
containing candles, trinkets, and many dramatic written documents
detailing individual reverential experiences.

     Continuing the adventure, we went to Tijuana and purchased two
of the cognitive enhancers recommended by Rushkoff, Piracetam and
Hydergine, and have taken them daily.  Neither of us has shown
exceptional mental prowess as yet.  I still forget to turn off the
stove or bring in the faceplate from the stereo in my truck.

     While our quest did not unearth the promised vision, "Cyberia"
is a quirky and amusing investigation of one corner of the logged-
in culture.  A caution: when you turn on, don't forget your password.

     Rushkoff also edited "The GenX Reader."
 
     Readers of "Mother of Storms" are introduced to cyberia gone
world-wide, as millions jack into the net to physically experience 
news events or the acrobatics of porn stars.  Barnes deftly jumps
from complicated descriptions of hurricane formation and physics
(watch out for those outflow jets) to meteorologists exchanging
data on the net (with "datarodents" secretly funneling the
information to governments and businesses who can profit from it)
to those swept away by supersonic winds and gigantic tidal waves
which completely cross Southern Mexico.

     The events in "Mother of Storms" resonated through news items
that occurred during my journey.  I read this near-future story of
a methane release that spawns over twenty mega-hurricanes which
scrape the Hawaiian Islands (and many other locations) clear of any
trace of civilization as news reports in the present described
Hawaiian concerns about hurricanes Emilia and Gilma. 

     In another synchronistic twist, I read a passage in which the
pilot of the spaceship which will save Earth's civilization
contemplates reaching Earth escape velocity on the 59th anniversary
of the first lunar landing, on the day that the U.S. was celebrat-
ing the 25th anniversary of the event (July 20).  With the book's
release date of the first week in July, I wonder if Barnes planned
for readers to hit that passage on that date.  That's prescience!

     The mechanics of how Earth's residents are spared are too
technical in places (Barnes is a computer simulator who developed
extensive models for the hurricane and its social ramifications),
involving a train of components on a trip outside the solar system
to lasso a comet, dragging it back to Earth, and shooting ice-laden
"frisbees" into the hurricanes.  Sure to be a hit with fans of hard
science fiction, readers who tread lightly with the hard science
aspects, though, will also be pleased.

Article: 4378
From: [email protected] (Rob Slade, Ed. DECrypt & ComNet, VARUG rep,
      604-984-4067) 
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: "Interface" by Bury
Date: 31 Jul 1994 17:46:22 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Sender: [email protected]
 
BKNTRFAC.RVW  940509
 
%A   Stephen Bury
%A   Neal Stephenson
%C   666 Fifth Ave./
     New York, NY   10103
%D   1994
%G   0-553-37230-0
%I   Bantam Books
%O   U$11.95/C$15.95
%T   "Interface"
 
I am semi-reliably informed that Stephen Bury is, in fact, a
collaboration, and that one-half of it is Neal Stephenson.  I'm not
sure I would have picked it up myself, but "Interface" definitely has
the characteristic ironic observation that ran through "Snow Crash". 
It makes for a very fun read.  The basic plot is that of the robotic
Manchurian candidate, but the fine light touch of the absurd brings
new life to it. 
 
Stephenson's comfort with technology is also evident.  However, in a
somewhat bizarre twist, this "present day" technology is of a further
remove than anything in the future world of "Snow Crash."  I recall a
cartoon showing white-coated scientists examining a blackboard.  The
left side is covered with equations, as is the right, but the middle
has only a "cloud" with the words, "And then a miracle occurs."  One
of the scientists is saying, "I think you need to be a bit more
specific in step two."  That is how one feels with the technology in
"Interface":  we are asked to accept too many miracles. 
 
The plotting is also somewhat ragged.  Problems arise and are never
resolved. Problems are postulated and never arise.  Minor sub-plots
proliferate, but a number of promising ones simply disappear.  This
seems to be a feature of collaborations. 
 
Technically disappointing, but eminently readable and enjoyable.
 
copyright Robert M. Slade, 1994   BKNTRFAC.RVW  940509
 
==============                      
Vancouver      [email protected]    | "Le mathemtica e l'alfabeto
Institute for  [email protected] |  nel quale Dio ha scritto
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Security       Canada V7K 2G6      |            - Galileo

Article: 4526
From: [email protected] (Barbara)
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews
Subject: Review: Tonguing the Zeitgeist
Date: 10 Aug 94 22:59:42 -0500
Organization: Eastern Kentucky University
 
	Just finished a new book by an old professor of mine & thought 
I'd give a quick review & pass it along. The title is Tonguing the 
Zeitgeist, the author is Lance Olsen.(Permeable Press, Isbn 1882633040)

	This book is a quick tour through a down and dirty future 
Seattle, where the media rules a post-biological holocaust society. The 
SF elements of the book tend to be more background than foreground in 
nature, giving the reader a comfortable depth and mood to sink into 
without explaining every nut & bolt. What the book does focus on is the 
death of the latest MTV hero, and the following tribulations of a 
guitarist tapped by the media machine to be "the next big thing". Filled 
alternately with sardonic mockery and scathing conviction, its a wild 
roller coaster through the societal blender of the forthcoming century 
as our hero Ben seaches for love & fame following the death of Kama 
Quyntifonic and her band Dr. Teeth. Break out your your SPF 65, and 
blister your brain!
 
		BDV [email protected]