Conference noted::sf

    First of all, there was a series called 'The Expendables' by Richard
    Avery, that mentioned exo-skeletons that mimicked the humans actions
    but with a tremdous amount more strength and speed.  
    
    Now, onto the the subject.  There is no reason such a thing could
    not be built today.  Although in a crude fashion, we have prosthetics
    that respond to the nerve impulses of amputees to control motion
    in the same manner as a real limb.  Exo-skeletons (or loaders) seem
    even easier to implement.  The stimulus is the motion of the person,
    sensed by position and/or motion sensors, and translated to powerful
    servos that operate the machine.  I would think that the major
    challenge to building a 'loader' would be maintaining balance. 
    The controller would need to override any motion that would set
    the unit off balance.   I've already seen demonstrations of a robot
    with six legs that can walk up and down stairs and lift one end
    of a car.  (Bet it changes tires fast!).  If also seen a one-legged
    robot that hops like a pogo stick.  Im ready to accept 'powerloaders'.
    
    /Dan

    	You will find the ALIENS note - which does a lot of discussion
    about the powerloaders - in SF note 357.
    
    	There is also discussion about those machines in SF Myths, 362.
    
    	Larry
    

    
    
    I remember something a long time ago (like grade school) about a
    "space suit" for astronauts to wear in "lighter than earth"
    gravtities.  It was not controlled by the persons mind.  It merely
    strenghtened or augmented the persons physical abilities.  I guess
    if you started a movement, say upwards to lift a object, the
    SUIT would take over till you start an oppsing motion to stop it
    or reverse the action.  There was no real detail.  Remember, this
    was, oh say, late 1950s early 60s.
    
    
    Rick A 

    Wasn't that from the Dick Tracy comic strip when he was doing all
    that far out stuff about the moon-maidens?  He had little individual
    flying platforms in which Dick would fly above the surface of the
    moon.  There was some excuse why he didn't have to use space suits
    as I recall.  This is all very fuzzy, but I remember the space suits
    you are talking about, though they may not have been from Dick Tracy.
    

We could probably build powerloaders today, but what for?  Compared 
to forklifts, they're
unstable, slow, and difficult to operate.  Unstable, because they 
only have two points of support, the feet.  Pick up something heavy 
and you fall on your face.  Slow, because they have legs instead of wheels.
Their max speed is determined by how fast you can move your legs, 
which is not very.  Difficult to operate, because you have to bend 
over to get underneath something, again risking a fall.

Now, several books have used powered exo-skeletons for soldiers, eg 
"Starship Troopers" and "The Forever War".  Soldiers have to operate 
in a much wider range of environments than loading crews, so it makes 
sense to have a more versatile form of mechanical aid.  
Loading crews work on nice smooth floors, whereas soldiers work in swamps,
jungles, deserts, etc..  They need an adaptable form of transport, 
but the guys on the dock don't.  
/jlr

    I never saw the movie, but I saw a show on TV (PBS?) about Jim Henson
    and the making of `Labyrinth'.  There is a *large* monster (~15
    feet tall) that is actually a muppet that size.  The controls are
    an exoskeleton worn by someone off to the side of the set, and all
    body movements, including arm, hand and head (though not facial,
    if I recall correctly) were translated directly from the controller's
    actions to the muppet.  Quite impressive.
    
    Richard

    Back in the 1965-1967 time frame there was some research done on power
    exoskeletons and they were originally planned to be less bulky
    than the one seen in _Aliens_ I remember seeing an artical in Machanics
    Illustrated (sometime around that period) describing research on
    them.  I also saw a comment in the SF lovers Digest stating that
    GE or GTE or one of those guys build and use such machines now.
    
    Rich

    	In the SF anthology, BODY ARMOR: 2000, edited by Joe Haldeman,
    there is a ficticious (though seemingly fact-based) "study" of
    artificial exoskeletons.  
    
    	Though this book concentrates primarily on their uses as futuristic
    armor for tomorrow's "knights", it does show numerous diagrams of
    one possible mechanical evolution of these exoskeletons (beginning
    in 1995).
    
    	Larry
    

    I talked to a salesman from Detroit who worked for GE for 20 some
    odd years.  This salesman said that GE did indeed design and build
    the powerloaders similiar to those used in ALIENS.  However, for
    whatever reason, they didn't sell.
    
    He said that the movie reminded him of the GE project.
    
    Name and node address of the salesman furnished upon request.

    
    
    	Note: This is really from NRADM::WILBUR using a friends account.
    
    	A picture of a 'Power Loader' that GE built can be found in
    	a book called "ROBOTS" published I believe in 1979.
    
    	After seeing the movie I raced home and dragged the book out
    	of storage to show a friend.
    
    						

    	There was a project in the 60's called the "Man Amplifier Project",
    	and I believe it was at MIT. I saw it an a Time/Life science  series 
    	book. Exoskeletons were made there.
    
    	Now about the powerloaders in the context of ALIENS was a little
    	superflous. If they could make an anderoid that can play Russian
    	Roulette with an knife, ad handle a computer keyboard, why the heck
    	would they need powerloaders that need a human driver ? Just stick
    	an anderoid brain in there and you can tell it what to do, it may
    	even talk back. Of course the android probably would not want to
    	wrestle with Big Ugly in the airlock either. :^)
    
    	Amr
    

    re .11:
    
    >...why the heck would they need powerloaders that need a human driver ?
                      
    Because Androids are @#$%&* expensive. 
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    re .11, .12;
    
    Not only are 'droids expensive, but, unless you are running a freight
    depot, you don't tie up an expensive brain in a powerloader which
    will be idle most of the time.
    
    It seems to me that there are only 2 sensible ways to build a 'droid.
    
    -  make it as much like a human as possible so that it can operate any
       tool or device designed for human operators. 
    
    -  make it a mobile sensor/brain that can plug itself into a variety
       of devices - this is how you put a brain in a powerloader.

                  <<< NAC::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SF.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -<  Arcana Caelestia  >-
================================================================================
Note 471.0             The Volkswagen "Powerloader" Beetle               1 reply
RIVEST::KENDALL                                       6 lines   6-MAY-1987 12:39
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    I finally rented the movie and thought on the whole it was a fairly
    good sequel as sequels go.  One thing about the Powerloader though
    that seemed rather odd to me.  Wouldn't you think that after 57
    years, the thing would have gone through some design changes?
    
    -Les

    Like forklifts?
    
    		Don (who bets he could run the latest model with
                    minimum instruction)

    Agreed. Form follows function. If you know the function
    you can deal with the form. Has the auto really changed
    much in 57 years ?

    For those interested in how the Powerloaders in the movie actually
    worked, a recent issue of Cinefex went into all the details.  FF
    follows for those who don't like tricks revealed...
    
   The principle problem that they ran into was counterbalancing.  Since
    the loader didn't move on its own, it was very front-heavy.  There
    were two approaches used: an overhead crane, if it wouldn't show
    in the shot, or a burly stagehand behind the loader acting as a
    sort of puppeteer.  The exterior was plastic, but some of the
    hydraulics were real.

    Power loaders were first used on film (to my knowledge) in one of
    those tacky Matt Helm films with Dean Martin in the late 60's.
    
    I don't remember the name of the film but it was set partially in
    the Dos Equis (who could forget that) brewery in Mexico.
    
    The power loaders were used to shuffle kegs of beer around.
    
    Mike S.
    

	Powered exoskeletons have been built, and can be used. The control
	system mentioned with the muppet in Labyrinth was, for a time, 
	considered as an alternative to an EVA by NASA (I think). The idea
	was that your astronaut wears a 'control suit', inside the spacecraft,
	and the 'power suit' is outside, taking all the risks.

	Another idea is that the 'control suit' is linked to an interactive
	3D graphics computer, which feeds its output into a stereoscopic 
	viewer in the helmet. This enables the person wearing the suit to
	interact with an entirely fictitious environment. The current problem
	is finding some way of inducing sensation into the suit- e.g. if 
	you pick up a ball in the environment, you need servos stopping 
	the movements of the suit as your hand closes on the 'ball'

				HRM

    RE:.19
    
    Various companies have simulation systems for aircraft pilots. Most
    military pilots check out in such a simulation. I "flew" one at
    Singer-Link once, and the body sensations were so close to the original
    that with a gram of imagination, you believed you were flying. Also,
    the simulations occurred in real-time. If you put the "f4" into
    a power dive, the stick became just as hard to move as in real life.
    I think this sort of technology is applicable to powered exoskeletons,
    but the problem becomes more delivery and logistics. The F4 simulators
    are huge, fully utilize several very powerful real-time cpu's, and
    weigh several tons. A suit/simulator system, such as the NASA proposal,
    would only be practical if the inside simulator would be no bigger
    than an outside suit.
    
    s popkes

    
    
    See also "A Spectre is Haunting Texas", I forget the author, for
    exo-skeleton ideas.  A very old story (I read it when I was a kid,
    it's that old !), concerning somebody who normally lives on an orbiting
    platform, in low-g, who has to visit Earth on some life-or-death
    mission.  So he wears a powered exoskeleton, and terrifies the locals,
    who all think he's a demon, from local legend.
    
    I think that's right, but it was a long time ago !!
    
    Ian
    

>    See also "A Spectre is Haunting Texas", I forget the author, for


Fritz Leiber  (SP?)


>    platform, in low-g, who has to visit Earth on some life-or-death

--------------------^

nit picking I know)...   (actualy Zero G

    

>>    platform, in low-g, who has to visit Earth on some life-or-death
>
>--------------------^
>
>nit picking I know)...   (actualy Zero G

Well, to pick on the nit on the nit, the only place where you really
have "zero-G" (which is more properly called "free fall," by the way)
is at the center of mass of what's in orbit.  Everywhere else in the 
satellite is in a state of "microgravity."  It's possible to have
substantial TIDAL gravity if the satellite is large enough.
See Niven's "Neutron Star" and "Descent of Anansi."

- tom]