Conference noted::sf

Bottom line (actually, top line, I guess):  Definitely worth seeing.

Abbreviated review:  Despite the script being basicly a carbon-copy of its
	predecessor's, ALIENS succeeds in its thrills and chills. It's well
	acted, written, directed, and photographed. A very worthy follow-up
	to Ridley Scott's ALIEN.

Plot Summary:  Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) and Jones, still in cold sleep, are
	finally picked up and brought back to Earth --- 57 years later. "The
	Company" plays at not knowing about the Alien and accuses her of
	willfully destroying the NOSTROMO and its crew, though obviously they
	don't have any evidence to formally charge her. In the meantime, a
	colony has been set up by the Company ostensibly to terraform the
	world where the Alien was found. Sometime after Ripley's return, all
	communication with that colony was lost, and the Company persuades
	Ripley to accompany, as a consultant, a small military force to the
	planet to find out what happened. Of course, what they find there is
	a whole nest of Aliens. The rest of the film is taken up by the
	small war between the Colonial Marines and the Aliens.

Detailed review:	***** Here There Be Spoilers *****

	The usual problem with most sequels is that they more often than not
	are little more than derivative, pale imitations of the originals.
	The bad news is, as I mentioned above, that ALIENS is very much the
	same in many plot details as ALIEN. The good news, though, is that
	while it may be derivative, it's certainly not pale. There are many
	parallels from the first film to the second, and this often gets in
	the way of the story. you know just what's going to happen at many
	points in the film, because you've seen it before. And yet, ALIENS
	director James (THE TERMINATOR) Cameron manages to keep the suspense
	going.

	Other than this parallelism, I see two major problems with the film.
	The first is that they is no sense of futurity in the characters.
	They are all basicly 20th-Century types transplanted into the future.
	The second major problem is a lack of time sense. One can infer that
	Ripley's debriefing provided information for the Company to send
	the colonists out looking for the alien derelict, which ended up as
	the obvious downfall of the colony, and thus, that it was months
	after Ripley's return that the colony goes south. However, this is
	not clear in the film, and it seems as if there is a remarkable
	coincidence that the colony (which has been on the planet for quite
	some time) should have a pest-control problem just as Ripley reaches
	Earth.

	I also had some problems at the beginning with the characters of the
	Marines, but this went away as the movie progressed and the people
	grew as characters. And that's one of the film's strengths. Few of
	the "grunts" are faceless Alien-food; most are very distinct individ-
	uals that you begin to admire, even while they aren't particularly
	nice people. Paul Reiser plays the token sleezebag Company-man, and
	plays him well. Michael (THE TERMINATOR) Biehn does a marvelous job
	as a Marine corporal who finds himself in charge of the squad. He
	doesn't play Hicks as a Rambo-type hero, but as a competent but very
	soft-spoken man. And Sigourney Weaver does as good a job here as she
	did in ALIEN. Ripley is a very strong, capable, decisive, and, above
	all, heroic character.

	The special effects are wonderful. As in ALIEN, they are pretty much
	kept in the background rather than paraded out one after the other.
	There are some rear-projection shots that are almost unnoticible,
	model movements that are very smooth and realistic. The pride and
	joy is the exo-skeleton, about which I shall say no more. There are
	some problems with the movement of the Aliens as they scamper around,
	but the close-up shots are as good as in the first film, though
	Cameron wisely uses quick cuts and murky lighting to keep the
	menacing appearance of the Aliens from diminishing by over-exposure.

	Few sequels really measure up to their predecessors. The Mad Max
	films did, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK did, and ALIENS does.

    jerry you copied my as yet unwritten review!! :-)
    
    I agree with 99% of what jerry has said, but of course I'd like
    to add just a few comments.
    
    Yes there are alot of parallels between the two, but that did not
    detract while I was watching it. Only afterword did I notice them.
    (guess I'm not as quick). There were also a few flaws that I only
    noticed afterword. ( i won't go into what they were, I hate spoilers.)
    
    The movie is so fast, so scary, and so exciting, that you just can't
    do alot of thinking. This movie just gets inside you and rips you
    apart (pun intended). When the movie ended, I was floating on
    adrenalin. 
    
    I saw it in Boston at the SACK (USA) 57 in 70mm and 6-track Dolby,
    and it was dynamite. 
    
    As for Jerry's comment about the people being basically 20th century
    types, I didn't mind that at all, people are people 20th or 30th
    century. It made them easier to identify with. I'm tired of seeing
    spotless space stations and ascetic apartments. Give me clutter
    any day.
    I also don't agree with the "lack of a time sense", I did get the
    impression that months had gone by between Ripley's "debreifing"
    and the problem with the colony. 
    There are minor flaws, some senseless plot devices, but on the whole
    a very good movie. I think its the best SF movie since ALIEN.
    
    I would recommend however, not going alone, and allowing some time 
    afterward to have a few beers and talk about it. It is a VERY powerful
    movie.
    
    sm

    I liked the movie also.
    
    One question I had though...
    
    At one point, someone said that if they didn't get back to their
    ship, then a second search party could be expected in seventeen
    days.  I got the impression that the second party would actually
    be there in 17 days.  This doesn't jibe with the fact that they
    use a form of suspended animation (cryogenics or whatever) to make
    the trip.  (i.e. why use it if it is less than 17 days).
    
    Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying can someone explain
    this?
    
    One other thing.
    
    I thought the movie left the possibility for a sequal.  I would
    like to say why but it is something of a spoiler and I can't figure
    out how to get a ^L in this editor...
    
    
    Steve McAfee

    re .32:                     
    
    first off, in order to put a <FF> (assuming your using the default
    VAXNOTES EVE editor (two windows):
    hit <CTRL>V, EVE will respond "key to add", hit <CTRL>L and voila,
    the double f symbol will appear.
    
    ( the rest is a spoiler )
    
    I interpreted the 17 days as meaning the next time the "battleship"
    swung around the sun. However, this doesn't work either since they
    managed to get a ship down by remote control.
    Another possibility would be to examine exactly the context.
    Ripley asks "how long after we're declared overdue can we expect
    a rescue mission (to be sent?) ?"
    
    Anyway, this is one of the flaws I saw in the movie, the 17 days
    is an obvious plot device, that is not justified at all.
    This also brings up the staffing of the "battleship". Were the Marines
    the entire crew? If not, then why did they have to remotely pilot
    the shuttle-craft? If so, who ran the ship, who manned all that
    armament? Maybe the ship was NAVY and were not allowed to use the
    Marines' equipment.:-)
    
    I guess you could also argue that any trip more than a few days
    would use the hyper-sleep technique to save resources and prevent
    boredom. No mention is made of how long it took to get to the planet.
                                     
    
    Sequel? The only thing I can think of is that they destroyed the
    nest in the colony, but did not destroy the source, i.e. the alien
    ship from the first movie. is that it? I don't believe anyone was
    "infected".
    
    sm

    Thanks for the info on the form feed.
    
    <** SPOILER **>
    
    We don't really know whether or Newt (sp?) is carrying an Alien.
    Just because we saw an egg opening in front of her doesn't mean
    that she hadn't already been "seeded" (impregnated? laid?) by another
    egg.  For that matter she might have been carrying one since they
    found her.  I don't remember her being x-ray'd or anything like
    that.  Although they were with her for quite a while and the thing
    probably would have hatched.
    
    Didn't the camera focus on her at the end of the movie?
    
    Just a thought,
    
    Steve McAfee

    Oops, sequel is S E Q U E L not S E Q U A L.

    #### SPOILER ####
    
    I was afraid you'd say that (about Newt). We talked about this after
    the movie but rejected it for the reason that she WAS planted in
    front of a hatching egg. The aliens were viscious, and at least
    semi-intelligent (along the lines of an intelligent hive animal
    such as an ant), but there's no reason for them to be that devious.
    If there was an embryo inside her, they would have just plastered
    here anyplace, why in front of another egg and waste it?
    
    Also, in hindsight, if she did have an embryo, she would not have
    been wandering around in the first place, she would have been safely
    cocooned in the warren. The adult aliens don't implant embryos. The
    aliens seemed to be modeled after ant society, 1 queen, 1 or a few
    drones, and lots and lots of workers. The workers being sterile
    and tending the eggs and larval forms, as well as food gathering
    and defense of the nest.
    
    This brings up the question of how the nest got established in the
    colony in the first place, maybe one of the embryos was a "queen".
    
    I think that scene was included for the very reason of dispelling
    that doubt about newt that existed all through the movie. ( is
    something about to pop out of her?) 
    I remember thinking similar things at the end of ALIEN (the first
    one) for no logical reason, and the nightmare at the beginning played
    on that doubt.
    
    No, I think there ain't no aliens amongst the survivors. But there
    are surely still some on the planet...
    
    sm

Spoiler discussion follows <FF>.



I agree about Newt not having an embryo, but for a different reason than the
one stated in .-1.  She would have noticed that a face-hugger grabbed her, and
would have mentioned this to Ripley.  Since she is too aware of what happens
when a face-hugger grabs you (look at her reaction when she and Ripley woke
up locked in the med-lab, with the two face-huggers), she would have considered
it quite a significant event, and would have mentioned it to Ripley.

My wife thought that the surviving Marine has an embryo.  We have seen in the 
past (the first movie) that "synthetic humans" do not always have a high level 
of concern for the real humans of the group.  Her scenario went as follows:

The synthetic human (I can't think of his name, he was the one piloting the 
ship at the end, who got cut in half by the remaining monster) finds a 
face-hugger, attaches it to the surviving Marine (who is unconscious at this 
point), which implants the embryo.  He then throws the face-hugger off the 
ship.  This is no problem, because face-huggers die after implantation.  The
Marine (who is not aware of any of this) then is put into hibernation, and
when everyone gets back to Earth, simply disappears into a Company hospital.

This is similar to the stated plan of the sleaze-ball Company man, who locked
Ripley and Newt in the med-lab without her weapon.

However, I don't think this scenario works for one simple reason: the synthetic
human stayed around to perform pickup on Ripley.  If he was playing games, all
he had to do was leave and tell a heart-rending story about how she died right
before the fusion reactor blew up.  Who would ever know?

No, I think all of the monsters on that planet died when the fusion reactor
blew up.  The one Ripley blew out the air-lock will either die of its wounds,
burn up in the atmosphere as its orbit decays (remember, they were still in
orbit around the planet), or die as it hit the ground at terminal velocity.

Of course, all of these monsters did come from a ship.  Where there is a ship,
there is generally a planet full of beings who made the ship.  Think about it.

-- Ken Moreau

    More spoiler stuff.
    
    .7> She would have noticed that a face-hugger grabbed her, and would
    .7> have mentioned this to Ripley. 
    
    I have a slight advantage here -- having never seen Alien before, but
    hearing that it was good, I decided to rent it when I heard Aliens was
    coming out, so it is still fresh in my mind.  Remember the first
    crew member attacked in Alien?  When he woke up, he had forgotten
    everything from shortly before the attack until waking up -- the
    creature may have induced this amnesia.
    
    So perhaps Newt forgot about being implanted.  And who says the
    second face-hugger was going to waste?  Newt could have had twins.
    
    In any case, if I were Ripley or anybody else on the ship, the first
    thing I would do when I woke up would be to X-ray myself and everybody
    else.  And maybe call for another ship when we reached a planet, cross
    over to it in spacesuits, and blow up the first ship behind us.
    
    > Of course, all of these monsters did come from a ship.  Where there
    > is a ship, there is generally a planet full of beings who made the
    > ship.
    
    This does present some problems.  First, the alien ship was not
    an Alien ship; it was from a third race.  We can be sure of this
    because Ripley managed to start translating the message the ship
    was sending out -- she said it was a warning.
    
    I doubt the Aliens and the ship-builders are from the same planet
    -- I don't think the ship-builders would have survived long.  Although
    we might make a case for them being slaves.  Also, the Aliens seem
    pretty durable in space.  Did the ship-builders pick them up on
    a planet (and then survive all the way to a new planet -- look around
    in the neighborhood for the Alien's home planet) or did they meet
    somewhere in space?    
    
    
    				-- edp

    A few answers/comments:
    
    Time: As I mentioned in MOVIES.NOTE, in the first movie, Lambert
    mentioned after they left the planet that the flight would be 10
    more months. Of course, a comabt ship may well be lots faster than
    a tug, and they may have improved the drive in the 57 years Ripley
    had been in cold sleep. And I agree that even if the trip was as
    short as a month or two, hibernation would save on air/food/etc.
    
    Newt: Consider the fact that it was only a matter of hours from
    the time that the face-hugger dropped off Kane in ALIEN until
    the chest-burster erupted. I doubt that Newt would have been
    carrying an embryo inside her as long as she'd been around with
    the rescue party.
    
    Sequel: Yes, there still *is* the derelict ship with more eggs.
    I'm pretty sure that this time, with Bishop, Hicks, and Newt to
    back her up, that Ripley is going to make sure that the Company
    doesn't try for those Aliens a third time. And Bishop, despite
    being an "artificial person" and possibly programmable, proved
    himself to be an honorable man. Recall the scene in which Ripley
    told him to destroy the face-huggers, and he replied, "But Scuzz-
    bucket told me to pack them up for shipment home." If he was
    going to be devious, I doubt that he'd have mentioned that to
    Ripley. I suspect that this was the point at which Ripley decided
    she could trust him, despite her previous experience with an
    artificial person.
    
    --- jerry

    even more spoiler stuff
    
    
    Twins: I don't believe this would be possible. The first one would
    be well along in its development. the second would die as soon as
    the first one is born and kills the host.
    
    Embryo in the corporal: Unless the corporal is carrying a queen,
    I don't think there would be much of a sequal in a single alien
    rampaging in a space station. If he is carrying a queen, then we
    just have a re-iteration of ALIENS, not a very good sequal.
    
    I think any sequal would have to be a further escalation of the 
    conflict. Which means either the derelict ship, or the aliens'
    home planet. The derelict ship could be ruled out, since there are
    no more hosts for the larvae. The home planet however...
    Well there is no evidence that the aliens are themselves spacefaring,
    the derelict ship is indeed a third species. Attacking the aliens
    home planet would be pointless. However, the company seems pretty
    determined to get some of these things for their biological warfare
    division.
    Maybe a sequal would go into the wars that the battleship was designed
    for and the use of the aliens in that war.
    
    Personally, I don't think a sequal would be appropriate, but then
    I said that after ALIEN too.
    
    sm

    	I have not yet seen ALIENS, but I did see ALIEN, and my question
    is, WHY would Earth want to colonize THAT pathetic, unfriendly ball
    of rock they called a planet with undoubtedly a whole Galaxy of
    more suitable planets around them?  That small planet (which I really
    think should be called a moon, since it orbits that large Saturn-like
    planet) is cold and harsh enough WITHOUT the Aliens!
    
    	Larry
    

    Re .12:
    
    They were terraforming the planet -- changing it to be more habitable.
    
    
    				-- edp

    re "sequels"
    
    I would suggest considering the works of authors such as Norton,
    Heinlein, Niven, etc.  The storyline would not track, but the
    same 'universe' would be used.  I think A. Bertram Chandler's
    universe with 'the Captain Hornblower of space' (or some such)
    is an excellant example of the concept ( Grimes, is his name ).

    By the by; I have not seen Aliens yet.  I have read ALL the
    spoilers.  Those spoilers have convinced me to see the movie
    NOW, rather than wait for the tape...
    
    Dwight

    Great movie!  And in the proper tradition:
    
    
    ===>  SPOILER FOLLOWS <===
    
    
    The marine can't be infected because:
    	
    1) they only had 2 face-huggers that weren't in the complex:
    
    2) both of those were blasted to crabmeat salad.
    	
    3) the spare face-hugger eggs were down in the bowels of the 
    	power station;  the chopper couldn't make it down there 
    	(at least not all the way- and we KNOW what happened to the
    	big supply of eggs).
    
    4) Benson went near the powerstation on the way to the auxiliary
    	dish- but he didn't bring along anything when he and the others
    	ran for the chopper- unless he was carrying it internally.
    	He's going to get major medical X-raying anyway when they get
    	back- and anyway; he wouldn't have had time to recover from
    	the anesthetic effects once he had intentionally put the hugger
    	on his own face.
    	
    4) So, the only way to get a hugger for the Marine is to drop
    	Ripley off at the top, fly like crazy down 17 decks, find the
    	queen room, steal an egg, (one that's ready to open), get it
    	onto the marine's face, let it implant, get it off the marine's
    	face, get back up to the deck where Ripley expects to be picked
    	up, and apologize for being late.  There's not enough time to
    	do that- it took time on the order of DAYS for the implanting
    	to go on in "alien".  15 minutes won't cut it- especially 
    	since the colony surgeons tried removal of the hugger and found
    	that it kills the host.  Tearing it off just won't do, the marine
    	would die.
    
    More spoilers later...
    

    
    Boy, I hate it when they take a node down from under me...
    	
    ===>  SPOILER FOLLOWS  <===
    
    
    Now that we know that neither the Marine nor Benson is infected,
    what about Ripley and Newt?
    	
    1) Ripley- no chance.
    	
    2) Newt - again, the face-hugger stays on far too long, if left
    	to it's own accord.  Hours, at least, according to ALIEN.
    	Certainly not 16-- minutes.  We know it wasn't much longer
    	than that amount of time- heck, they didn't have more than 4
    	hours from the time the reactor started venting...
    
    

    re:.15
    
    As far as Bishop carrying an embryo in him, no way. First, the
    Mother would possibly know, and if so, she wouldn't have bashed
    him in two. Which brings up the second point: How could he have
    been hiding anything inside with half his guts hanging out for
    all to see?
    
    --- jerry

    	ALIENS has gone big nationally - it's the cover story on this
    week's TIME magazine, showing Sigourney Weaver and the Alien Queen
    (looking quite lovely, I might add).  There are two separate articles,
    one on the movie, and the other on Weaver, both highly favorable
    of the two, and not much in the way of spoilers.
    	It's ironic in a way that TIME is making such a big deal about
    ALIENS, for the magazine put down ALIEN in 1979, giving it half
    a page with one black-and-white photo of Ripley hiding from the
    first Alien in the storage closet of Nostromo's escape craft.  It
    essentially called the first film just an updated version of those
    1950's Grade-B SF monster flicks.
    	My, how times have changed!
    
    	In addition, has it been noticed how ALIENS parallels another
    fairly good SF "monster" film from 1954 called THEM - particularly
    in that both introduce a little girl living in a remote area who
    survived a viscious attack by insect-like creatures, in THEM's case
    being giant ants mutated by radiation, and how the military is sent
    in to combat THEM.
    
    	Larry
    

    re:.18
    
    Ah, Larry, was that Sigourney Weaver looking quite lovely, or the
    Alien Queen? :-)
    
    Maybe TIME's film reviewer changed since ALIEN came out. In any
    way, they *were* right --- ALIEN *was* just an updated 50's sci-fi
    monster flick, but it was a *great* updated 50's sci-fi monster
    flick.
    
    --- jerry

re: .18
I get to cover two comments with one...
I almost wrote the movie off in the first 20 minutes because
of the "lack of futurity."  The producers should have come up with
something more distracting than ordinary suits and ties with the
suit coat collars turned up!
In the same regard, and possibly explaining Time magazine change of
heart, there is a copy of People magazine (a Time-Life publication)
in Ripley's room on the space station.
What does THAT say for futurity?

- tom]

    
    i, for one, would like to have seen the "sleeze-bag company man"
    get his just deserts in more graphic detail.  because of his
    unconscionable decision to try to capitalize on the aliens existance,
    he deserved to suffer a much worse fate than anyone else in the
    movie; certainly more than the original colonists who had been
    kept alive as hosts for god knows how long (at least 17 days,
    presumably).
    
    Ray G.
    

    RE .21
    
    	I second that. It would have been great to see him hanging there
    next to Newt, maybe with an empty egg and a dead face-hugger on
    the floor. But then again, it would have been anti-climactic after
    the Med-Section scene, and would have detracted from the Newt-rescue
    scene.
    	I was very impressed with the lack of gore in the movie, and
    besides, the lack of graphic detail allows one to imagine the worst,
    which he certainly deserved.
    
    sm

    	Does the popularity of such movies as ALIENS and - to a FAR
    LESSER extent - CRITTERS indicate a return to alien creatures being
    portrayed as deadly monsters rather than wise and lovable beings?
    If so, is this an indication of how humanity is re-viewing what
    REAL alien intelligences may be like?  It goes without saying (but
    I'll say it anyway) that certain SF films can have a strong influence
    on society's way of thinking, and who knows what the consequences
    could be on many levels.
    
    	Larry
    

    
    There is a noticeable upswing:  add in INVADERS FROM MARS to your
    list, and for that matter the short-lived (thankfully) 'V'...
    even, not that it bears on anything, Niven and Pournelle are writing
    'FOOTFALL' instead of 'THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE', which I believe came
    out back when Spielberg aliens were in--E.T., Close Encounters.
    Are aliens back to being symbols of Communist aggression rather
    than the hope of new discoveries?  Have they built an anti-saucer
    cannon on Devil's Tower?  Have they converted Jacques Cousteau's
    Calypso into a flying battleship a la STAR BLAZERS?
    
    If so, I personally blame it all on Ronald Reagan, terrorism, Tofutti,
    and the Statue of Liberty.
    
    Matt :-)
    

    .re .21 and .22
    
    
    
    	In the book ALIENS, adapted from the screenplay by Alan Dean
    Foster,  Burke does get his just rewards.  When Ripley is looking
    for Newt a hand reaches out and grabs her.  Voila, Burke.  He asks
    Ripley for help and says he can feel it moving around inside him.
    Without a word, Ripley hands him a grenade and continues to look
    for Newt.
    
    	It seems that there are a couple of 'scenes' in the book that
    aren't in the movie.  I wonder if these ended up on the cutting
    room floor or if Mr. Foster is taking  liberties.  The book also
    explains some of the backgrounds of the Aliens in his book.  This
    may also be literary license.
    
    
    				Jim
    

    I like that "hands him a grenade"  Should have put that one in the
    movie.
    
    Larry, the Aliens in Aliens are not intellegent beings.  They are
    bugs and threrfor do not come under the catagory of 'Man meeting
    advanced race.'
    
    Steve

    .27 is right; the aliens never are shown using tools, building
    structures except nests, exhibiting any other than pack (or hive)
    animal logic (unless you happen to agree that the Alien Mother and
    Ripley came to some "truce" in the eggroom concerning Newt and the
    newly laid eggs).  
    	
    And us H.Saps *never* salute anything that isn't a toolmaker.  :-)
    	
    I think the act of *mercy* in giving Scuzzbag a grenade is uncalled
    for and a waste of good ammunition.  Handing him a dull knife (or perhaps
    a chain saw) would have been much more apropos.  (Having actually
    had to *deal* with a person who must have been the role-model for
    Scuzzbag perhaps hardens my usual joviality)
    	
    Or how about:
    	"Oh, you can still feel it moving?  Well, you have a while yet..."
    and walk away.
    	
    Giving him a grenade and a way to die as honorably as Vasquez
    and the other marine ("you are such an asshole") would not sit right.
                          
    Finally, it takes *days* for the parasite inserted by the face-hugger
    to mature to the breakout point.  At most, the delta-t was four
    hours, and I think it was a LOT less (something like 1 hour) between
    Scuzzbag's capture and the power plant detonation.  He'd still be
    under the induced anesthesia.
                                         
    Has anyone figured out (or is it in the book) what that large rifle
    with the arm that attached to the marine's belt was for?  There
    were two marines so equipped: Vasquez and the scarface guy.

    I thought Vasquez and (Duncan?) the scarfaced guy were grenadiers,
    and that those hefty pieces of ironmongery were grenade launchers.
    
    Dave W.

    The "large rifles" were the flamethrowers, weren't they? (I admit
    I lost track of what was firing what.)
    
    Re "aliens as bad guys" - I don't think it's necessarily a sign
    that everyone is getting xenophobic; well, I'm not, anyway. The
    aliens were so obviously lethal and impossible to reason with that
    they became the perfect villains; non-sentient (as far as anyone
    can tell), yet so powerful that they require maximum firepower to
    do them in. I think there's a certain feeling of helplessness and
    frustration in connection with all the terrorism and general
    unpleasantness in the world, and since we can't go out and fix it
    by shooting anyone we see, it's a relief to experience a situation
    where there's no doubt what to shoot at, and no ethical dilemmas.
    
    As for Mr. Burke's ultimate fate, I rather like the "hand him a
    grenade" idea. The man's a blatant opportunist, self-centered to
    a fault; does anyone think that he'd have the nerve to use the thing?
    Even knowing what was going to happen to him, I think he'd just
    fiddle with it and fiddle with it until the pains started, by which
    time he'd probably be unable to trigger the device.
    
    -b

    I think they are just a larger caliber pulse gun and require more
    to keep them stable or pointed in the  right direction when being
    fired.  Thus they are mounted to the marine to give that more stable
    plateform.
    
    Steve
   

    
    	
    	I believe that the large gun that is being discussed was briefly
    mentioned in the movie as some sort of mini-cannon.  I recall something
    about light armor piercing shells that were fired from this gun.
    As far as the mounting on the marine, .30 is basically right.

I expect that anybody who has read this far and hasn't seen the movie
knows that there's nothing here but spoilers...

Intelligent aliens?  Momma knew how to run an elevator, or (seemingly)
	at least what it was for (she took her own car).

One reviewer identified the big gun as a "power rifle."  Perhaps
	it was some sort of recoiless rifle, but it was Vasquez
	who gave the others more regular rifle clips when the Sarge
	took them away - did she have both weapons?

Bishop's last second rescue of Ripley and Newt ranks right up there 
	with Han Solo's surprise return to save Luke on the Death 
	Star attack in Star Wars.

And speaking of spoilers, there were too many in the ads!  The power
	loader duel was a given, a real setup, but I was pissed at
	it having been clipped in some TV ad or coming attraction
	I saw before I went to the movie.  The scene in the medcenter
	was prominent in the TV ads too (facer skittling along the floor
	after Ripley).

Was anyone else distracted by the fact that the Marines were US Marines?
	Or that the Burke was worried about millions of dollars
	(for the Nosotro and the terraforming plant) when billions or 
	trillions of dollars would seem to be more rational costs?

- tom]

    The Nostromo was listed as 40 million in adjusted dollars not including
    cargo.  If it were built in todays dollars then it would be trillions.
    
    Thus they have had a revaluation of the American dollar.  
    
    As for the US Marines.  I thought it was neat.
    
    The Queen bug would no doubt be the more intelligent of the species
    and seeing Ripley going Down the Elevator would give her the idea
    that this other one that just showed up would do the same thing.
    I haven't read the books so I am going on hearsay but I think that
    in the first book 'Alien' it is said that the Alien is not intelligent.
    
    When I first Saw "Alien" I thought that it was supposed to be
    intelligent  also and it really pissed me off when it started wasting
    people right and left.  In other words I am saying that no intelligent
    creature would act this way.  Later when I found out that it was
    just a bug made the whole story better for me.
    
    RE .31
    
    Wha da ya mean basically right! 8^)}
    
    Steve

    
    
    	I think it's a pity that the armored personal carrier and shuttle
    didn't use their onboard firepower such as the huge cannon on the
    front of the APC and those missiles (I believe their called
    Powderloaders)weren't used in the movie.  I know that the movie
    called for a situation where the marines were supposed to be at
    a disadvantage but it would've been neat anyway.
    
    
    re.33
    
    - Sorry about that, you're absolutely correct. 8^)
    

    re .34:
    
    The POWERLOADERs were not the missles, they were the "suits" they
    wore to load the missiles onto the flyer.
    
    As for not using them, well they probably would have, but the flyer
    crashed. As for the the gun on the APC, well Ripley munged up the
    APC pretty good during the "mad dash" escape after the first encounter.
    I remember someone saying that the transaxle was about to go.
    
    sm

    
    
    		Thank you for the correction.  
    
    
    						Bob Ho
    

    	Beings do NOT have to act like humans to be intelligent.
    	Look at whales.
    
    	Larry
    

    I think the Queen, at least, demonstrated some intelligence.
    Not much, maybe, but some. 
    
    sm

    The AM didn't call the elevator.  Ripley did (remember, she pushed
    one button, looked around nervously, and then pushed the other)
    
    The AM only had the sense (or luck) to get into the elevator when
    it arrived (remember the scene at the start of Ripley's raid?  The
    elevators return to the top floor automatically.  She didn't have
    to push any buttons).
    

    Again, from the book...
    
    	There is a scene in which 'power cannons' are set up in the
    tunnel from the aliens nest to the main building.  They are able
    to set them up to run automatically.  Night falls and the aliens
    try to gain entrance via the tunnel. The cannons cut a lot of them
    to shreds. Just prior to the cannons running out of ammo, the aliens
    retreat.  Bishop speculates that this may be a sign of intelligence.
    He figures that there is a collective "hive" intelligence.  Indivdually
    they are bugs, as a hive they form something greater.
    
    					jim
    
    

Wasn't the retractable weapon pod on the APC a nice touch?

Last night I finally broke down and went to a moving picture 
(a talkie) I said I wouldn't go see if it was made.  (Last 
movie I saw in a theater was RAIDERS.)  What changed my mind 
was a review by ET's Leonard Maltin.  He gave it a 10.  He 
hasn't given a 10 since THE SOUND OF MUSIC :-).

I was fortunate in not seeing any previews to ALIENS (and ALIEN, 
also) so I had no preconceived notions.  Although there were no 
new ideas in this movie (dropship, exoskeleton, weaponry, etc.) 
it kept me interested.  The special effects were great!!!

So go see it, get the pants scared off you, and feel sorry for 
the pogey-bait marines.

Spoilers (if anyone cares by now) follow:

My negatives are few:

1. After watching the marines arm themselves & go after the 
   humans I thought it was a bit contrived when they were ordered 
   not to use the explosive projectiles, their most potent 
   personal weapon, just so their numbers could be reduced.

2. Wasn't Ripley's arm & hand muscles really built up from all 
   that manual labor to enable her to pull herself out of an open 
   airlock?  The bar opened the outer lock; why wouldn't the bar 
   close it?  Wouldn't *you* close the outer lock before opening 
   the inner one?  I know: stress.

I knew when I saw the loader it would be playing a role at the 
ending.

I was glad to see the "artificial being" vindicated.  Ash left 
a bad taste in my mouth (there I go again).  I'm glad the 
Bishop-in-the-pipe sequence was brief; now *there* was a good 
place for some sheer terror!

I waited 'til today to read this note; I agree with all the 
"corrected" comments.  As for a sequel, the company can have its 
acid sample (if the corpsicle is still in orbit); but I should 
think, with all the bugs dead the technology of the derelict 
would be the place to start.  After all, the pilot wasn't one of 
the bugs.  And the bugs were cargo.  So, while there are probably 
more bugs "out there", the ship-builders would be more 
interesting.  Like: what were the bugs *used for*?  Certainly not 
to produce acid.  How about if the bugs were to be used to combat 
another species?  A particularly nasty one.  (Unless, of course, 
the ship-builders out-nastied the bugs.)

Anyway, I do not think there should be a sequel.  :-)

     					Don

    P.S.  This reply sholud have been ~.36, but THEBAY & the TROLL broke
          contact just before I tried to add it.  Final comment: ADF 
          adds action, etc. to his adaptations (over & above, I think,
          the original screenplays) to give the books more punch.
          .41's title is apropo.

    RE .42
    
    >The shipbuilders may be more evil than the Aliens< Not an exact
    quote but close enough.
    
    The thing that says no to this is that in the first movie Alien
    the signal that brought the Nostromo to the planet to begin with
    was a warning.  Mother (the computer) got that far before all hell
    broke loose and Ripley got distracted.
    
    Steve

        .35: On the bit about "the transaxle is about to go", I suspect
        that was more a result of having run over the alien (remember
        what the bugs' blood does to metal!) than her driving style.
        That truck musta been in really bad shape underneath by the
        time they got out of the building...
        
        As for Burke... one of the friends with whom I saw the movie
        (we stood in the parking lot for about 20 minutes before
        we felt steady enough to drive) suggested a scenerio which
        seems more satisfying than the ones suggested...
        
        Searching for Newt, she finds Burke.  It would be nicest
        if he was in the same position as the woman the marines found...
        just about to burst... but as pointed out, it's far too early
        for that: if he'd been infected already, he'd be unconscious
        until the explosion.  So he's alone, or there's a still-closed
        egg in front of him.  Nevertheless, in terror he begs Ripley
        to kill him (or perhaps to rescue him: though I doubt he'd
        expect much chance of success).  She gazes at him cooly for
        a moment and turns away without a word.
        
        	/dave

    re .43
    
    If I recall correctly the original nest ship's pilot (whose remains
    were discovered on that couch-like thing under the telescope-like
    thing) had his chest torn open a la larval host.  I would interpret
    this as implying his species was *not* master to the aliens.
    
    len.
    

    re .42
    
    	(Again, from the book...)
    
    	There was a 'good' scene when Bishop crawls through the tunnel.
    	Before he gets to the other end an alien mouth bursts through
    	the side of the tunnel.  Bishop freezes and the alien backs
    	off.  Bishop thinks that the aliens (who have no eyes) are
    	somehow able to detect both motion and to sense 'life'.  He
    	figures that he could probably walk among them without being
    	disturbed, as he is only a 'machine'.
    
    
    

    I haven't seen the movie but the discussion here has raised a question
    - are these aliens anything like the "slugs" in an early Heinlein
    (name I do not recall) that parsitize the minds and technology
    of other species?

re: .47
>    - are these aliens anything like the "slugs" in an early Heinlein
>    (name I do not recall) that parsitize the minds and technology

If you mean "The Puppet Masters", wasn't a difference that those aliens had
a symbiotic relationship with their hosts?  I seem to recall several of the
protagonists getting "taken over" for periods of time without getting
totally wasted biochemically...

    Went to see it again last night, and enjoyed it as much as the first
    time.  For me, this movie is like Star Wars --  no matter how many
    times you sit through it, it's still a rockin' good time.
    
    Someone on USENET mentioned that they weren't particularly thrilled
    with James Horner's score.  On second viewing, I like the score
    (is there a soundtrack album?) with the realization that some of
    it is boosted from Jerry Goldsmith's original score, and the brassy,
    martial, here-come-the-aliens music is the Klingon music from Star
    Trek III.   It's not original, but it's not bad.
    
    "Let's rock!"
    Dave W.

    Random question that occurred to me after both the movie and the
    book - what, precisely, do the aliens *eat*? They use an awful lot
    of energy, and I wouldn't have thought that the nourishment absorbed
    during incubation in the host would be nearly sufficient...
    
    -b
    Extra-terrestrial Biology 101F

    I haven't seen the sequel yet, but I vaguely recall from the first
    movie (or maybe the novelization) that the alien ate its way through
    a lot of ship's stores.  I assumed it wasl also eating most of the
    people it caught.  In the novel, only the captain is saved for eggs,
    so far as we can tell.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

        The subject of food has been discussed to death in net.movies
        and sf-lovers.
        
        The most "sensible" explanation seems to be that (in ALIEN,
        anyway) the growth was due to getting into the ship's stores.
        There would certainly have been large supplies of food in
        the colony, too.
        
        Getting a bit further out, it's been speculated that the
        aliens may actually synthesize whatever they need from the
        air: they plainly don't *breathe* (as non-oxygen gas and
        even total lack of gas doesn't appear to bother them
        particularly).
        
        In any case, there seems to be no evidence whatsoever that
        aliens eat their hosts, or in fact that any alien has killed a
        human by direct attack (i.e., they kill only indirectly by
        cocooning victims and letting the face-huggers implant their
        chest-bursters [my, such colorful terminology!]).  In ALIENS a
        large number of burst, decomposed, but otherwise intact humans
        were shown in the breeding chambers: certainly had aliens been
        inclined to eat humans they would have done so there, with ample
        time and no danger.
        
        	/dave 

    In the first movie, one man dies from the exit of a chestbuster,
    but all the other fatalities of the movie were the direct handiwork
    of the alien, with its own personal teeth and claws and teeth and
    teeth.  (The only exception would be the android, if you want to
    call that a fatality.)
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    	I think the Aliens were the good guys.
    
    	WHY?! growls the SF readers as tremendous anti-Alien sentiment
    erupts to the surface.
    
    	Because the Aliens were simply carrying out their life cycles
    and naturally defended themselves when their lives and their cycle
    was threatened.  
    	Remember in ALIEN, when Ash said he/it admired the Alien in a
    machine sort of way, as it operated without ulterior motives or
    conflicting moralities; in fact, Ash called it a "pure" being unclouded
    by guilt.
    
    	The point I'm getting at is my dislike for a current theory
    much heralded these days:  That all intelligences, wherever they
    are, will basically think alike, particularly in the sense of what
    is good and evil.  This theory, mainly upheld by Carl Sagan and
    his advocates, even goes as far as to claim there will be only peaceful
    alien civilizations who will explore the Cosmos, as any with
    destructive means will ultimately destroy themselves in a kind of
    semi-unconscious, self-induced "purge" - but I'm getting ahead of
    myself here.
    	
    	What particularly irks me is the way some automatically impose
    morality on others, and if they vary from that view they are
    automatically evil.  Look at all the different senses of morality
    just on this one relatively small planet alone, then think about
    the possibilities in other star systems and in other galaxies!
    
    	As for ALIENS, I'm NOT saying what they did to the humans was
    in any way wonderful, nor if I had an Alien bearing down on me
    would I be thinking, "Gee, it's only after me to continue its right
    for survival, therefore I must allow it to have freedom of expression!"
    What I AM saying (or perhaps asking) is who and what is really "right"
    or "wrong", and who or what really has the "authority" to say what
    is?
    
    	I am essentially both contemplating the Aliens' point of life
    out of curiosity, and arguing against the anthropomorphic theories
    on alien intelligence - this can also go into my belief that the
    Aliens are intelligent in a way different from humans, and that
    once again we shouldn't throw in our views of what is intelligence
    as if it were universal.
    
    	As for the theory of the only intelligent beings who will explore
    the universe (as in starships) being peaceful ones, those scientists
    who posed the theory did not seem to take into account a HIVE mentality
    (like the Aliens!), or a tyrannical control of sorts - they don't
    have to be "peaceful", just non-combative amongst themselves and
    very determined!
    
    	Larry
    

    Last I heard, it was at least plausible that the aliens were no
    more good or evil than tsetse flies, and likewise inconvenient.
    
    ESW

    re .55
    
    	Realize, too, that virus' (or if you're not comfortable with
    	defining virus as living) bacteria, are also only continuing
    	their life cycle (species survival).  Yet and still, you'd 
    	catch h*ll arguing against the ongoing all out assault generally
    	employed in 'combating' infection.  Disregarding the liability
    	insurance issues, the manufacture of antibiotics is a gangbusters
    	business...  No morallity issue there, either.
    
    Dwight

    Re .53: Thanks for the info. I haven't subscribed to net.movies
    for some time, since I got tired of having to wade through 87 identical
    replies to the same question. (I figured the good stuff would make
    it to a notes file sooner or later!)
    
    -b

    Re .53: 
    
    > Getting a bit further out, it's been speculated that the aliens may
    > actually synthesize whatever they need from the air: they plainly don't
    > *breathe* (as non-oxygen gas and even total lack of gas doesn't appear
    > to bother them particularly). 
    
    That would take a lot of air.  Maybe they could synthesize various
    materials from air, but what do they do for energy?
    
    
    				-- edp

    Larry, I don't see that there *is* a question of "good vs. evil"
    at work here. What we have are two mutually incompatible species
    at war. Actually, I'm not sure that the two are *mutually* incom-
    patible. Humans aren't *by nature* inimical to the Aliens (though
    they may be by inclination).
    	There is also the question of whether the Aliens could have
    developed naturally, or whether they were perhaps gengineered as
    a weapon (which the Company wanted them for in the first place).
    A discussion is going on in net.sf-lovers/net.movies about this.
    This fact could have serious repercussions as to whether such a
    dangerous life-form should be allowed to propogate.
    	As food for thought, consider this: If the Aliens evolved
    naturally, then from what was their acid blood designed to protect
    them? Can you *imagine* what their predators must be like?!
    
    Dave, I confess that I didn't notice the music in ALIENS at all,
    which is probably both good and bad. the one exception is the
    "Gayenne Ballet Suite" at the beginning, which was notable as being
    used in 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, as well as very briefly in ALIEN
    (a logical pat on head for anyone who can tell me where).
    
    --- jerry

    RE .60
    
    At the begining when we first set the Lifeboat from the Nostromo
    with Ripley in it is where we here theGeyenne Ballet Suite.  I 
    noticed this right off the bat.
    
    Steve

        .54: I can't really recall how many crew were in ALIEN...
        or how they all ended.  It may be that one or more were in
        fact directly killed during fighting... but definitely not
        all of them.  The alien's preference was obviously to capture
        and cocoon (in the book, Dallas and another were found
        cocooned---and infected---in a hold and killed, but the scene
        was missing from the final movie).
        
        As far as can be determined from the movie, *none* of the
        colonists were killed by adult aliens: they were all cocooned
        for the facehuggers.  Certainly no human bodies were found
        outside of the "nursery".  Very few (if any) of the marines
        were actually killed by the aliens (since the deaths/captures
        were pretty much offscreen, it's hard to say for sure). 
        Note that acid damage doesn't count, since that wasn't done
        intentionally by the aliens.
        
        As for the aliens being the good guys... well, there's some
        justification to that.  Certainly an all-out campaign to
        exterminate them is a bit unwarrented.  However, in both
        movies, the principle characters were forced into deadly
        contact with the aliens without their knowledge or consent:
        it was perfectly justifiable for them to defend themselves,
        and one can't really even fault Ripley for the damage she
        did in trying to rescue Newt.
        
        	/dave

Well, I haven't seen Aliens yet, but in terms of good and evil vs.
"just carrying out the life cycle": consider the equivalent creature
on earth: the shark. Remember "Jaws"? Applying morality to a shark
is part of the story in Jaws- Quint, the shark hunter, is obsessed
with the elimination of sharks- he sees them as EVIL, and it is his
moral duty to distroy them. The marine bioligist is also obsessed with
them- I think he sees them as a natural force which can be bent to the
control of man, if we could find out what makes them tick. Knowledge =
power.

The shark views people (vs. dolphins, let's say) in the way you view
hamburger at McDonald's vs. hamburger at Wendy's- one can hardly
assign morality to that kind of choice. Nevertheless, we will protect
OUR life cycle at the expense of some other creature's, every time.
So does everything else, whether it's a mouse hiding in a hole or an
elephant goring a lion. Questions of morality pale beside the raw
eat-be-eaten choices that fuel evolution.

Morality? Humans eat almost anything that CAN be eaten on the planet-
they eat more sharks by far than sharks eat people, they use shark's
liver oil to make Preparation-H. You can bet that anything that travels
off its own planet is pretty near the top of the food pyramid on the
planet it comes from- the question won't be "do they kill other things?"
the question will be "do they kill each other?"- we sure do.

JO

    Alan Dean Foster wrote a book from the screen play of Aliens. It
    outlines the way that the colony started. 
    A miner and his family, Newt was(is) his daughter, were looking
    for mineral samples, yep! you guessed it, they found the ship. A
    face hugger attaches to him and they bring him back to the settlement.
    At that point the chapter ends and we find Ripley in the pod.
    
    
    Dick

    	If the Company wanted the Alien for weapons research, what I
    would like to know is WHO do they want to make weapons against?
    
    	Larry
    

    
    
    	RE.-.64
    
    		Is the book worth the money and the reading?  I know
    Alan D. Foster wrote it and I have a little skeptiscm to his writing
    ability.  
    
    
    	
    	RE.-.65
    
    		The company probably wanted to use the aliens for anyone
    or anything that got in their way.  
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Back to the sentient bugs question:
    	
    IN THE BOOK (not the movie) it's clear that the Alien Mother punched the up
    button herself (in the movie, she just got in, the elevator control
    did the rest).                                              
    	
    Also in the book, the alien warriors eventually decided to call
    off the frontal assault just as the automatic sentry guns were 
    running out of ammunition.  (Cause and effect?)
    	
    Yes, .66, the book is worth reading.
    	
    A worse question: if all that was brought back to the colony was
    a single infected human, where did the eggs (and facehuggers) necessary
    to infect the rest of the colony come from?  Either the emergent
    warrior went back to the eggship for more eggs, or every warrior
    is latently a queen.... and one which does not need to be fertilized
    to lay fertile eggs.
    	
    Which implies that aliens don't have sex.  No wonder they are so
    grumpy.
    	
    

    re .62:
    
    In Aliens their preference was to capture and cocoon, because they
    had an egg-laying queen. In Alien, there was no queen, so how could
    Dallas have been infected? I think it is good, retrospectively, that
    the scene was cut. 
    I remember after Alien thinking that the alien had to have eaten
    all the crew in order to fuel its incredible growth rate.
    It is hard to say how a single creature from a hive will behave.
    I.E. without the queen producing the right pheromones, the creatures
    may not capture-and-cocoon, but just kill.
    
    sm

    I share your skeptiscm on A.D.Foster, but the book moves as fast
    as the movie, and it was not his idea. I'm sure he took the idea
    and the money from the producers of the movie. I think that you'll
    enjoy the book.
    
    Dick
    

    There's an analogous question about where do rapidly growing entities
    get their energy and mass from in Aubade for Gamelon, a "mutation
    thriller".  In this book, the mutants are presumed to extract their
    "food" from the quantum energy of the vacuum.  Perhaps the Aliens
    do likewise.
    
    len.
    

    re:.61
    
    I wasn't referring to its use in ALIENS, but ALIEN. As it turns
    out, I was wrong. I just took a look at the scene in question, and
    it turns out *not* to be the Ballet Suite after all. The scene I
    had in mind was when Dallas was relaxing by himself in the shuttle
    just prior to the face-hugger leaving Kane's face.
    
    re:.64
    
    Read that chapter again. It was clear that someone in the Company
    (and we all know who) radioed the colony to search for an e-m
    anomaly at specific coordinates, without explaining why. At the
    colony, Newt's parents volunteered to go out to look for whatever
    was supposed to be there, with the expectation that they'd share
    in whatever was to be had as a result (fame, money, face-huggers,
    or whathaveyou). They certainly didn't just randomly stumble across
    it, as you imply.
    
    re:.65
    
    I'm not particularly an ADFoster fan, myself, but this particular
    novelization is worth reading (even though his one for ALIEN isn't).
    
    re:.66?
    
    As a friend of mine, David Cargo, pointed out in SF-Lovers, if the
    assumption is made that the Aliens were gengineered, they wouldn't
    need genetic diversity, and thus any member of the species could
    be capable of laying eggs. Thus, in the missing scene from the
    first film, the Lone Alien (Hi-yo Silicon, away!!!!) could have
    laid an egg, producing a face-hugger for Dallas.
    	This isn't necessarily consistent with the Queen in ALIENS,
    but it might well be the case that specialized Queens are only
    produced when massive quantities of eggs are needed.
    
    --- jerry

    Re: .42  oops...wrong node...
      
    Re: .43  Didn't say "bad(d)ie", sad "out-nastied", meaning tougher.
    
    Re: .55  (Adding to .60)  Who said bugs had space-travel?  Looked
    like they were being transhipped to me.  The bugs being "evil"
    hadn't occured to me.  I felt it was a matter of not getting
    "chomp-chomp-chomp"ed.  "Watch out for the Stobor", right?
    
    Re: .65  Competitors...
    
    Re: -.1  "Silicon"!  That's it!  Electrically control 'em by implanting
    semiconductor devices fabricated for that purpose.  Wow, with ground
    troops like that...!
                                                                        
    						Don

    Anybody notice the US flag patch on the Marines uniforms.  Looked
    like the number of stars representing the stateshad increased by
    half or more.
    
    Steve

    	Some of the patches the Nostromo crew wore in ALIEN commemorated
    the United States' Tricentennial (2076); if this was a reference
    by the movies' makers that ALIEN took place not too long after the
    year 2076, I would have to say they were being anachronistic - this
    is just my opinion, but based on future projections of real starship
    development, Earth will be lucky if the unmanned fusion-powered
    Daedelus starship is even being constructed by the end of the
    Twenty-First Century, let alone MANNED starflight.
    
    	Larry
    

    Oh I dunno.  In the fifties movie "Forbidden Planet," we get a short
    rundown of human migration through space, in which they predict
    that we don't get to the moon until the 21st century.  If physics
    goes through a convulsion around 2000 to 2030, similar to the one
    is went through in 1900 to 1930, and comes up with an appropriate
    bag of tricks, I could believe in stardrive by 2076.
    
    At least it would explain why the Company executives still wear
    jackets and ties -- that's been formal men's wear for the last century,
    so it might be good for a century to come.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I have more trouble believing in perfect human-appearing androids
    by the year 20xx than I do stardrive.  If humanoid robotics is _that_
    advanced, why are their "man-amplifier" powerloaders so un-advanced
    (relatively speaking, of course) looking?  I wouldn't have trouble
    believing in something like that within several years -- but Bishop,
    or Ash?
    
    Those two things, stardrive and androids, seem out of place with the
    rest of the films' technology and culture.  Everything else would
    support the c.2076 theory -- picture phones, slug throwers, wheeled
    APC's (not antigrav), and last but by no means least, _People_
    Magazine_?!?  If this magazine is going to be with us for 100+ more
    years, that scares me more than the Aliens -- bodes ill for as bleak a
    future as "Blade Runner," and with Time Magazine's "Killer Yuppies" to
    boot. 
    
    (2076 headline in WEEKLY WORLD NEWS:  "I Had The Alien's Baby, Shocked
    Mother Reports -- Ex-'V' Producers Claim No Responsibility")
           
    

    
    
    		I tend to agree with you that the development of androids
    by the year 20xx is not conceivable, but I wouldn't think it was
    impossible.  But the androids Bishop and Ash were a part of the
    movies, and you know anything can be put into a movie (within
    limitations).
    
    
    							Robert
    

    As an excuse we could say androids are *verrry* expensive & only
    used on important missions.  Human labor is so much cheaper.
    
    						Don 

    re:.76
    
    I'll grant that the presence of both the androids and the exoskeletons
    is a technological inconsistency, but as to the rest, don't be such
    a pessimist! Consider the *extreme* advance in science and technology
    over the last hundred years. It's not unreasonable to assume that
    in another hundred years we will have increased our level of tech-
    nology even more so.
    
    --- jerry

    The androids might be easier to produce if there were partly organic.
    Perhaps the skin, parts of the nervous system, and some of the sensors
    are organ-cultured.  Then much of the android's sophistication would
    be borrowed from nature, not a fully artifical product.  It also
    makes them ickier, which fits in with the movie.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    re:.79 re:.76
    
    Actually, a roommate of mine thought of how to explain the relatively
    sophisticated android and the relatively unsophisticated exoskeleton.
    The purpose of the exoskeleton is to be able to transport massive
    amounts of weight, which would limit the design specs a fair amount.
    Being able to simulate natural human movement for the android does
    not meant that you can apply it to the exoskeleton. The androids
    are stronger than a human (witness Ash in the first movie), but
    they wouldn't have the lift capacity of the loaders --- the torque
    would be too much.
    
    --- jerry

    Anybody catch the name of the ship that brought the Marines to the
    planet.  I got that question put to me and I know that it was mentioned
    only once in the movie.
    
    Steve

    Re .81:
    
    That's exactly what I was thinking.  Finesse is not equal to power. The
    artificial people may supply things such as somewhat increased
    strength, improved speed and coordination, and slaves of a sort (as the
    captain in the first movie had been made to obey the company in a way
    few humans would).  The loaders give LOTS of power, perhaps way too
    much to be made with the same materials as artificial people.  Those
    are different and justify different forms. 
    
    
    				-- edp 
                                              

    Take a walk around your work environment and see if there are machines
    which represent "old" along with "new" technology.  (If you can't are 
    there job openings?) :-)  Out on the strasse, too.  What if, for 
    example, a Marine Combat Correspondent went along and he/she carried a 
    manual typewriter (for reliability, maybe)?  Even these days there
    are those who still use a slide rule.
       
    Besides, you don't need a genius or an expensive android to move
    freight.  The movie-makers felt it was still a job for unskilled 
    labor.  (Besides, it fit in well with the plot.)
                                               
    						Don

    Well after finally seeing the movie and getting through all these
    replies, I can put in my two cents.  
    
    I thought the movie ALIENS was excellent, however, I do not
    think it was as frightening as ALIEN I.  The movie ALIEN was slow
    and deliberate, causing heart-stopping scenes or "hurry up and kill
    the guy" attitude cause you know he was going to get it.  In the
    movie ALIENS, it was described as non-stop action, a roller-coaster
    of terror.  Well I have to admit after the first frigthening scene, I
    was perpared for the rest of the movie gripping the edge of my seat.
    
    As for a sequel, nobody has metioned the possibility of the mother
    alien clinging on to another ship in space and eventually start
    laying eggs again depending where the ship lands.  Obviously the
    alien proved that it doesn't need air from when she latched onto the
    ship when it took off from the colony.  Providing that the ship
    that she would latch on does not enter a planets atmosphere and
    burns her to a crisp, she could equally survive just as she did
    towards the end of ALIENS.
    Old nememises always return!
    Mike_L

    >old nemises always return!
    
    Yes.  I'm still waiting for Pa-kur.
    
    						Don

    Re .86
    
    Who is Pa-kur?
    
    Re misc.
    
    There are insects which can survive for some time in vaccuum
    conditions, so that would be plausible for an Alien ... for a while.
    Eventually, it will need oxygen.  If it doesn't use oxygen, it probably
    finds oxygen poisonous, which is unlikely (though not impossible)
    given the way the form flourished in the movies, in intimate contact
    with oxygen and oxygen-breathing life.  If there MUST be a third
    Alien movie, I'd advise using their homeworld or that left-over
    plauge ship as a source.                                     
    
    Random suggestion:  Might hypersleep be used, not so much to mitigate
    boredom or years-long voyanging, but to help the crew survive
    hyperjumps?  This would explain why they use it even if the trip
    was relatively short.
    
    I suggested earlier that the androids might have organic parts.
    Since Bishop, after being ripped up, gets put in a hypersleep chamber,
    rather than just left in the garage or the repair shop, this looks
    mildly likely.
                  
    Earl Wajenberg

    The book indicates that as the MA fell/was blown out of the airlock,
    she also "fell" through the border of the artificial gravity field
    surrounding the ship, which accellerated her back toward the planet.
    	
    I don't think that aliens are equipped with reaction thrusters,
    nor with particularly effective heat shields, so I think she's gone
    for good.
    	
    Back to the derelict on the surface, for the next movie.
    

    	I can say with almost complete certainty that the future Earth
    in ALIENS did NOT use hyperdrive in their starships, otherwise the
    flight from Acheron to Earth would be a LOT SHORTER in time than
    the ten months stated in ALIEN.    
    
    	Larry
    
    	

    Hey, you'd expect after fifty-seven years hyperdrive would improve
    considerably.  Maybe it's the mindbending effects of hyperdrive
    rather than the boredom/lifetime effects that make the use of coldsleep
    necessary.  (remember Niven's "blind-spot madness"?)
    
    We'll get hyperdrive when someone figures it out.  Volunteers?

    re .86
    Still waiting for Pa-kur????  You mean to tell me John Norman still
    hasn't revived him in the 20 or 30 books of GOR yet?  Must be saving
    it for his retirement novel. :^)
    Mike_L

    re:.82
    
    The ship's name was Sulaco, which brings up a question I have.
    Is anyone here familiar with Joseph Conrad's works? In ALIEN,
    the ship's name was Nostromo, which is also the title of a short
    novel by Conrad. the Nostromo's shuttle was named Narcissus,
    which may well be a reference to another Conrad book, THE NIGGER
    OF THE NARCISSUS. Is Sulaco a Conradian reference as well?
    
    re:.85
    
    ALIENS wasn't as frightening as ALIEN, certainly, but it wasn't
    meant to be. Cameron was aiming for an action movie, which he
    certainly gave us. I saw it for a second time Saturday night,
    and I've come to the opinion that it's better than the first
    (I wasn't quite sure of that after the first time).
    	As for the mother, I doubt that there were any other ships
    in the vicinity that she could've grabbed onto. I would be willing
    to believe that she'd be able to survive a reasonable amount of
    time in a vacuum, but not that long. She most assuredly burned
    up during re-entry into Acheron's atmosphere.
    	The obvious hook for the next film is the derelict. Although
    the novelization explicitly says that Ripley nukes it from orbit,
    no such thing is mentioned in the film (a flaw, to my mind).
    
    re:.89
    
    How certain *are* you Larry? Do you know exactly where Acheron
    is, and how far it is from Earth? Do you know just how fast the
    hyperdrive sends the ships? They absolutely *must* have hyperdrive.
    At lightspeed, a ten month journey wouldn't even get us to Proxima
    Centauri, our nearest stellar neighbor. At *100 times* lightspeed,
    a trip to the galactic edge would take 300 years. Ten months? That's
    a hop, skip, and a jump.
    
    --- jerry

    	This won't help my arguement any, but I read somewhere that
    the Saturn-like planet Acheron was orbiting was the third planet
    of the star Zeta Reticuli. 
    
    	Larry
    

    ohhhhhh
    
    	The Zeta Reticulli incident.
    
    	Many fond memories....Do you believe in UFOs?
    
    				cll
    

    After 23, no, he hasn't.  Nor has our hero gone to the Steel Worlds
    (*That* would be the series climax.)
     
    						Don

    I checked the book- Ripley doesn't nuke the site from orbit; she
    just tucks everyone into sleep capsules and sets course back
    to the good ol' earth.
    	
    At least in my book.
    	
    I'll bet she WISHES she nuked the derelict ship in the next movie.
    

    re:.93
    
    Not that I don't believe you, I'm only curious. Can you remember
    where it was that said Acheron was in the ZR system?
    
    re:.96
    
    Ok, I just checked the novel, and I know where the confusion came
    in. I was remembering Ripley's first suggestion (p. 139, paragraph 3):
    
    	"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit
    	and the whole high plateau where we originally found the
    	ship that brought them here. It's the only way to be sure."
    
    --- jerry

    The only thing is...you really do not know if there are any others
    out there.  This might take care of ones on the ship for sure, but
    who knows where they really came from.  Maybe Ripley should try
    to find that out, to see if they had enemies and find an alternative
    method of fighting them.
    Then of course their enemies might be meaner, and turn on us.
    Mike_L

    	I could swear (#@%*!) that I heard it mentioned in ALIEN, and
    I may have read it in an SF magazine review.
    
    	In any case, does anyone with an astronomy book happen to know
    just how FAR the very real star Zeta Reticuli is from Earth?  It
    might clear up this hyperdrive/nohyperdrive issue, even though I
    know it's much farther from Earth than Alpha Centauri.
    
    	Perhaps the ten-month traveling time from Zeta Reticuli to Earth
    in a starship is RELATIVE to the time aboard the ship, due to the
    high (though NOT necessarily FTL) velocity of the craft.
                        
        Larry
    

    Well there is 2 zeta reticulis zeta 1 and zeta 2.  Could you be
    more specific.
    
    Steve

    Zeta Reticulus should be the sixth brightest star in the constellation
    Reticulus.  I think the 1 and 2 refer to individual elements of
    a binary star system.
    	
    What's the distance to the nearest one?
    
    (Also, what kind of star is it, etc...)
    

    My star charts say that they are not binary just two stars that
    are in the same (close) line of sight.  I looked through every
    book I had and could find no reference to zeta1 and 2 reticuli.
    The constellation Reticulum is a blah constellation and no books
    really delve into it very much.

    	I do not remember either star being mentioned in particular,
    just Zeta Reticuli.  Perhaps supplying information on BOTH (distances,
    classification - which one is stable enough to have planets and
    not burn out after a relatively short period of time) could produce
    some of the answers.
    
    	Larry
    

    The writer could have just pulled the name Zeta Reticuli out of
    a hat also.  The whole idea being that ZR is just and obscure star.
    
    Steve

    	But let's find out anyway (I would look it up myself, but all
    my astronomy books are still at my former home).
    	Perhaps we'll discover the writers picked an interesting star
    after all!
    
    	Larry
    

    
    Zeta 1 is 9.44 parsecs and Zeta 2 is 10.31 parsecs. A parsec is
    3.258 light years so Zeta 1 is 30.74 LY's distant and Zeta 2 is
    33.59 LY's distant.  I will have more info later of what type stars
    they are.
    
    Steve

  Please bear with me on this...

  A *long* time ago I read a book called "Interrupted Journey," which was
  about Betty and Barney Miller being picked up by a spaceship (just up
  the road on Route 16 in New Hampshire).  Their story allegedly came out
  under hypnosis a long time after the event.  At one point the Millers
  asked the aliens where they came from and they were shown a star map, which
  they later reproduced (again under hypnosis).  I seem to remember that
  the book said the star map was identified as a piece of the southern
  hemisphere's sky (which the Millers had never seen) and that the particular
  star the aliens pointed to was identified as Zeta Reticuli.

  I don't have a copy of this book -- any chance that one of the readers might
  check this out?  Or does anyone remember the story well enough to tell me
  whether I'm right or wrong?

  JP

    	You are correct - Betty Miller was supposedly shown a star map
    which the aliens said depicted their civilization's trade and
    exploration routes in that portion of interstellar space.
    	An astronomer in 1965 tried to correlate the star map with the
    stars in Earth's sky, and came up with a similar pattern which had
    Zeta Reticuli as its "focal point" - the star symbols from which
    all those trade and exploration routes eminated.
    
    	The psychologist who examined the Millers said they had experienced
    some kind of dream, and some astronomers declared that there is
    NO such star pattern which matches the one Betty allegedly saw on
    the alien starship.  Also at the time Soviet astronomers claimed
    to be receiving SIGNALS from an alien intelligence in the vicinity
    of Zeta Reticuli!  American astronomers later claimed it was energy
    pulses from a distant quasar, which are belived to be early forming
    galaxies.  The "radio" source incidentally is called CTA-102.
    
    	Whether the Millers were telling the truth or not is still unknown,
    and other than the star, there is no real connection between ALIENS
    and the Miller incident.
    
    	Unless of course, there were eggs on the spaceship! :^)
    
    	Larry
    

    That's very nice- except that a star map drawn for zeta reticulus
    would not be usable from Earth- and certainly wouldn't match any
    star map we had...
    	
    You need a 3-dimensional representation if you want to use your
    star map from anywhere else in the galaxy...
    	
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    	        
    
    
    	
    			***** flame on ***** 
    
    
    I read the review of Aliens in _Ms._  this month; BOY did they
    have a one-sided review.  If you weren't female, you didn't get
    mentioned.  If you were female, no matter how small the part, you
    got mentioned.  They mentioned the director (male) only because
    his assistant was female (or so it seemed).	
    	
    	Mentioned			Not mentioned
    -------------------      	   -----------------------
    Ripley                           Lt. Gorman
    Newt                             The Sargeant
    Vasquez (smartgun oper)          Drake (smartgun oper)
    Chopper pilot (_Ms._ called      Bishop (android)
    		her a "top gun")     The Corporal
    Alien Mother                     The Company Scumbag
                                     All the other aliens
    				     (everyone else male)
                           
                                
    		Anybody notice a correlation?
    
    	
    			***** flame off *****
                                   

    
    
    
    		In the first place, I would highly doubt any talk, review
   , criticism from _Ms._ magazine.  What do they know about film? 
    It's probably expected that they would just mention the women in
    the film, after all it is a women's magazine.  
    
    
    
    							Robert
    
    

    Re .109:
    
    > That's very nice- except that a star map drawn for zeta reticulus
    > would not be usable from Earth- and certainly wouldn't match any
    > star map we had...
    
    This was the dialogue between the aliens and their computer:
    
    Hey, computer, what say you display a nice star chart for us so
    we can show these Earth folk where we come from?
    
    Okay, sure, I'll even draw it for you as it would appear from Earth.
    
    Thanks, computer, that's great.
    
    
    Re travelling from Zeta Reticulus:
    
    Was the ship in Alien traveling from Zeta Reticulus directly to Earth?
    Does anybody know a reason why it might take a VERY roundabout course?
    Because if it were headed for Earth, any solar system it happened to be
    near enough to stop off and investigate would have a sun which appeared
    to be in the same place in the sky as Zeta Reticulus.
    
    
    				-- edp 

    	In regards to the NARCISSUS traveling to Zeta Reticuli on its
    way to Earth, in ALIEN they had no intention of going to the Zeta
    Reticuli system, but were rerouted by the ship's computer, MOTHER,
    to Zeta Reticuli by the company when that alien distress signal
    was discovered coming from Acheron.  The NARCISSUS was the closest
    (and no doubt most expendable) starship in that area of space, and
    since the Company was so interested in the news of an almost
    indestructable creature, they sent the ship to check things out.
    
    	So no, Zeta Reticuli was NOT an easy pathway to Earth; it just
    caught the Company's interest.
    
    	Larry
    

    	Sorry - NOSTROMO is the main ship.
    		NARCISSUS is the smaller landing craft.
    
    	Larry
    

    re: -1  I'm sure it was a typo.
    
    re: .109  I get the impression this was your first encounter with
        MS.  Now *there's* SF for you!
    
    I have INTERRUPTED JOURNEY.  I'll look into it; it's been too long
    since I saw the show.
    
    							Don

    Hey!  Stop replying when I'm replying!

    re:.114
    
    Still not quite right. Nostromo was the tug that travelled down
    to Acheron's surface. What was left up in orbit was the ore
    refinery that it was towing. Narcissus was the name of the
    shuttle in which Ripley escapes at the end.
    
    re: Zeta Reticuli
    
    As I recall, the people were not shown a star map from the point
    of view of Earth. What caused such a stir about this whole thing
    was that under hypnosis she drew the map that she was shown. It
    had no correlation with Earth's sky, but at some point later on,
    an astronomer tried correlating it with star maps as they'd be
    seen from other stars, and this one happened to match ZR's. I
    have an issue of ASTRONOMY from a number of years ago that had
    an article about this. I try to dig it out.
    
    --- jerry

    This is according to Burnham's Celestial Handbook Vol. III page
    1525.  Zeta 1 & 2 are G1 and G2 stars (respective) and our sun
    is a G2 type star
    
    G type means: Yellow- solar type stars; temperature 6000 deg K;
    weaker hydrogen lines; prominent lines of many metals.
    Examples:  The sun, Cappella, Alpha Centauri.
    
    Steve

    	Ah, so that means they are relatively stable enough suns to
    have planets, and last long enough (ten billion years as yellow
    dwarfs) to have at least some planets capable of supporting at least
    the kind of life we know.
    
    	I remember the sun "rising" over Acheron in ALIEN as looking
    very similar to Earth's sun, Sol.
    
    	Larry
    

    re:.119
    
    Oh, they're definitely capable of supporting life. That's one of
    the things about the "incident" --- that the alleged origin world
    of the space travellers should be a likely system for an intelli-
    gent race.
    
    --- jerry

    
    
    		Recently saw  ALIENS for the second time.  I'd like
    to know if anyone who has seen it over was scared again even though
    he/she knew what to expect.  I was certainly caught by a few scenes.
    
    		Did anyone notice that Ripley was wearing Reebok sneakers?
    I caught it while she was using the powerloader for the first time.
    
    
    
    							Robert
    
    

    I've been to see it four times, and every time my heart rate is
    around 130 by the time the credits roll.
    
    "*He's* coming in.  I feel safer already."
    
    Dave W.

    re Sneakers:
    
    no I didn't notice it in the film, but I saw an ad in ROLLING STONE
    showing Ripley in the power-loader with a caption like 
    REEBOK SNEAKERS, THE OFFICIAL FIGHTING SHOE OF "ALIENS".
    
    sm

    I've seen it three times and will shortly see number 4.  My heart
    pounds from begining to end.
    
    Steve

    	How did we get from debating life on Zeta Reticuli to sneakers??!!!
    
    	Larry
    

    I've got a copy of ALIEN (singular, not plural) and the straight
    dope is : 
    	
    	..."Found it... and us.  We're just short of Zeta II Reticuli."...
    	
    				page 23 of the paperback edition.
    	
    So it's Zeta 2, not Zeta 1.  A bit longer trip.
    

    re:.126
    
    Beat me to it! I just went through my own copy and found the line.
    Still, it does't say that the system *is* Zeta II Reticuli. The
    line you quoted said that they were just *short* of Z2R, and later
    in the book (page 28), Dallas says, "The emergency lies elsewhere---
    specifically, in the *unlisted system* we've recently entered."
    [emphasis mine]
    
    re: back a few
    
    I've seen it twice (the second time in 70mm, 6-track Dolby ---
    definitely the way to go), and plan on seeing it a few more times.
    I just took some "time off" to see a couple of other flicks. :-)
    I plan on sitting through my tape of ALIEN right before going to
    see it a third time. On the second time, I didn't quite jump in
    shock like the first time, but my pulse was still racing just from
    the pace of the movie.
    
    --- jerry

    	Thanks for finding the quotes on where the Nostromo crew was
    when awoken - and since Jerry pointed out that it's NEAR Zeta Reticuli
    II, let's check out what stars in that area of the Galaxy would
    be appropriate for having planets, and maybe life!
    
    	Larry
    

      I enjoyed ALIENS tremendously, but I thought the suspense factor
    was greatly reduced by the addition of the 'alien trackers'.  I
    enjoyed never knowing when the aliens were *really* around the corner.
    Were the 'trackers' perhaps just added to avoid the rating difficulties
    encountered by the first film (R vs. X) because of the exceptionally
    intense nature of the film?  Yes, ALIENS was still intense an scary.
    I also had to discuss it for some time afterward in order to return
    to the 'real' world.   I guess I just like to be blown away!
    
    Jean (wife of account owner)

    In my star charts which is the W.Tirion Sky Atlas 2000.0 there are
    no stars shown as being near Zeta 1 and 2 Reticuli.  This is the
    best I can do.  My charts are the best that are available to Amatures
    like myself.  I don't have the big bucks to by the professional
    stuff.
    
    Steve

    I watched my tape of ALIEN today, and guess what? The line about
    being "just short" of Z2R is in there.
    
    --- jerry

From:	helm!eric 14-AUG-1986 13:43
To:	@[.net.sf_lovers]NEWS.DIS
Subj:	Re: ALIENS sequel: my theory

Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!amdcad!amdimage!prls!philabs!sbcs!helm!eric
Subject: Re: ALIENS sequel: my theory
Posted: 14 Aug 86 13:43:50 GMT
Organization: helm, Pub-Access Eunichs, Farmingdale, Ny (LI)
 
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Edward M. Ives) writes:
>Even though Sigourney Weaver has said that she won't do a sequel, you never
>know; money talks.  In which case, here is my stupid theory on the plot:
 
"Survey Says.....BZZZT"
 
IF sigourney weaver gets her way, THERE WILL BE an A sequel to Aliens!
I saw A LIVE interview of her right after I saw the film, and she said
that she Loved the character and doign the movie, and that she saw
various Unused, and over-looked areas in the story, as well as things
that could be built upon, and that she WAS CURRENTLY Planning on doing a 
sequel which she intended to be in and direct. When prompted as to a possibly
title for the third film, she gave a smug look and said "Oh, I'm not
sure yet, but it would have to be something like "Aliens GALORE"
..Hopefully it will be an ALL OUT war with the Aliens when we find
out that they aren't a bunch of misplaced ants, but a HI-tech space faring
society. Then we can have the Good space shoot em up we've been waiting
to see!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Hyman  @  HELM - Long Islands ONLY(?) Public Access System (516)-694-5320
philabs!sbcs!helm!eric       \__ Can you think of A cute Acronym?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    re: .129
    
    I dunno.  Remember that the orginal Nostromo crew had something
    of the same nature -- I can remember them hovering over it just
    before Dallas gets whomped on.  Also, I thought the motion trackers
    made a certain amount of sense, and that they gave the marines and
    you an "ohmigodheretheycome" feeling.
    
    Dave W.

    Are we sure the Aliens aren't intelligent?  The ones we've seen weren't
    "born" into a society which would rear and educate them. 
    
    
    				-- edp

    	Did the IRAS satellite - the one launched into Earth orbit in
    1983 to detect infrared radiation sources - detect any PLANETARY
    DEBRIS (comet dust, gas) around Zeta Reticuli II?
    
    	Larry
    

    Re .135
    
    We have no positive evidence of Alien stupidity, but we also have
    little evidence of more than animal cunning.  Also, the Alien in
    the first movie became an accomplished stalker and killer very quickly.
    This must have been instinctive behavior rather than taught.  (Either
    that or the Alien was super-humanly brilliant and taught itself
    very fast and without much experimentation.)  In Earthly biology,
    such sophistication of instinct is not usually combined with high
    intelligence, but then this is obviously not EARTHLY biology.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    
    Did anybody notice the spanish on Vasquez's T-shirt? I didn't but
    a friend did, he didn't quite catch enough of it to get it
    translated. Anybody know what it was?
    
    sm

    RE: bug intelligence
    
    It seems difficult to tell.  They certainly _seem_ to have a merely
    animal intelligence, but every now and then they seem to come up
    with suggestions of something more.  For example-- the scene in
    ALIENS where the aliens 'cut the power'.  Hudson panics-- "they're
    just bugs, they can't 'cut the power'--!" and somebody tells him
    not to underestimate them, they're not just bugs.  I'm not sure
    why the filmmakers threw this in, other than as an excuse to have
    the power cut in the first place.  I suppose it adds a bit of mystery
    for the audience--"maybe they're not just animals after all..."
    Maybe something they'll touch on in the next sequel, BARRELS AND
    BARRELS OF ALIENS.
    
    Other little 'psuedo-intelligence' bits-- attacking through the
    ceiling (OK, maybe they found that way in by accident), 'anticipating'
    Ripley's moves in ALIEN (OK, could be coincidence)...any others?
    
    My personal feeling is that they're animals--they're just animals that
    get lucky every once in a while.  No sweat.       
    
    Matt
    

    re:.138
    
    Yes, I noticed the Spanish on her shirt, and translated it.
    Unfortunately, I forget what it said. When I see the movie again
    this weekend, I check it out.
    
    --- jerry

    
    re: several
    
    I believe the Spanish is on the chestplate of her armor, not her
    shirt.  The last word is 'suerte' as in Buena Suerte?
    
    A man whose entire knowledge of Spanish consists of phrases from
    'Chico and the Man'
    Dave W.

    I like what she has on her gun "ADIOS"
    
    Steve

    That I could determine from watching closely, the phrase on
    Vasquez's armor was "El Reisgo Siempre Vida", which I would
    translate very loosely as "Life is always a risk" (A direct
    translation would be "The risk always life"). I'm not positive
    that the last word is "Vida", but that's what it looked like
    to me.
    
    Other neat things I noticed this time, after watching my tape
    of ALIEN, and then zipping out to watch ALIENS:
    
    (1) There's a line said in both films that makes me think it's
    intended to be some Spacer in-joke. In ALIEN, as they're sitting
    down to what turns out to be Kane's last supper, and in ALIENS,
    when the Marines sit down for their meal, one person says, "What
    is this crap supposed to be?" And someone else replies, "I think
    it's cornbread."
    
    (2) I figured out the nickname of the dropship that's painted on
    the right-hand side (it's not visible for long, though). But I
    won't say what it is, since I want to ask the question in TRIVIA.
    
    (3) You might recall that during the scene where Ripley suggests
    they nuke the site from orbit, the following (roughly) is said,
    
    Burke (of Hicks): "He's just a grunt."
    (and *to* Hicks): "No offense."
    
    Hicks (in reply): "None taken."
    
    What I hadn't heard before was that when they decide to snuff
    Burke, the following is said:
    
    Hicks (of Burke): "We waste him."
    (and *to* Burke): "No offense."
    
    Well, *I* thought it was a rather nice jab.
    (Actually, this may be in the book, but I've really only skimmed
    a good part of the book).
    
    --- jerry

	I'm about 90% sure it's in the book Jerry.. I just finished it
	the other nite...

						mike

    re "cornbread":
    
    I think I remember in ALIENS Ripley saying something about how they
    still serve cornbread and it's still as bad as it was on the Nostromo.
    
    	/
       (  ___
        ) ///
       /
    
    BTW doesn't anybody have a last (or first) name?

	Yep.. Ellen Ripley 

					mike

    Yes, the "no offense" line *was* in the book. I looked it up
    this morning when I got home.
    
    Cornbread: Ripley made no remark about the cornbread in ALIENS.
    The only connection between Ripley and the cornbread was that,
    after she knocked the pan out of Bishop's hand, Frost remarked,
    "I guess she don't like the cornbread, either."
    
    Names: In neither of the films is any of the characters given a
    first name (except Carter J. Burke, and of course, Rebecca "Newt"
    Jorden). I haven't checked through the novelization of ALIEN, but
    I didn't recall that any first names were given. In the ALIENS novel,
    however, Ripley's first name was given as Ellen (as Mike said) and
    Hicks' first name was given as Dwayne. If you pay attention during
    the film, you'll see first initials for many of the Marines (on the
    monitors), and even a couple of the Nostromo crewmen (during the
    debriefing). These are the ones I can remember:
    
    Nostromo crew: S.E. Brett and I(?). M(?). Lambert
    
    Marines: J. Vasquez, M. Drake
    
    --- jerry

    
    The no offense line is in the movie, too.  It's kind of muffled,
    as Hicks is straining with the effort of yanking Burke out of his
    chair and slamming him into a support.
    
    dave W.

    re:.149
    
    Of course it's in the movie. That's where I noticed it (and started
    this discussion in the first place). I found that it's usually
    muffled because the audience is making noises of approval at the
    suggestion of wasting the slimebucket.
    
    --- jerry

    Leafing thru ALIEN, I stumbled across the Ash-head conversation.
    (No pun intended, Larry.)  Ash explained that the signal was a warning,
    not a distress call, that he diverted the Nostromo so Mother would
    receive it & respond to it.
         
    I quote; "The derelict spacecraft we found had landed on the planet,
    apparantly in the course of normal exploration.  Like Kane, they
    encountered one or more of the alien spore pods.  The transmission
    did not say whether the explorers had time to determine if the
    spores originated on that particular world or if they had migrated
    there from somewhere else.
    
    Before they were all overcome, they managed to set up the warning,
    to keep the inhabitants of other ships that might consider setting
    down on that world from suffering the same fate.  Wherever they
    came from, they were a noble people.  Hopefully mankind will encounter
    them again, under more pleasant circumstances."
    
    And; "The explorers who crewed the derelict ship were larger and 
    possibly more intelligent than mankind. ..."
    
    He goes on to describe it as "an interspecies parasite".
    
    Food for thought.
    
    						Don
    

    	A possible ALIENS sequel could be one where the humans meet
    the species of the derelict ship on Acheron, and team up to utterly
    destroy the Aliens.
    
    	If the Aliens DID originate on Acheron, I wonder where the others
    are?
        If they came from some other planet, I wonder whether it was
    in that solar system (the one NEAR Zeta II Reticuli), or - obviously
    - another one.
    	If so, how did the Aliens get around?  Like the flying parasites
    from STAR TREK's "Operation Annihilate"?
    
    	Larry
    	

   >         If they came from some other planet, I wonder whether it was
   > in that solar system (the one NEAR Zeta II Reticuli), or - obviously
   > - another one.
   > 	If so, how did the Aliens get around?  Like the flying parasites
   > from STAR TREK's "Operation Annihilate"?

    
    They obviously didn't come from around Zeta Reticuli.  If they had
    then the Earth explorers probably would have found them.  As for
    getting around we already know that.  They got to LV(whatever) via
    the alien spacecraft from the first movie.
    
    Steve
    
    BTW- When are you going to see Aliens Larry?

    Steve:  Should we start a pool on whether he will or not?
    
    (tell him there's some great puns in it.  He'll go.)
     
    RE:  sequel.  Is there really anything interesting they could do for
    the sequel?  I know this has no bearing on whether one actually gets
    _made_ or not, but I can't see that it could be very good. We've shown
    the holes in every possible "so-and-so got impregnated" plot.
    Following the logical build in the titles, Sigourney Weaver's jest (I
    hope :-) that the third film would be called "Aliens Galore" would go
    along with the theory in this file that it would be "Earth carries the
    war to the Aliens' home planet."  But how interesting would that be?
    We've seen "a few against one", we've seen "a few more against a
    bunch," do we really want to see (and more importantly, can Hollywood
    pull off believably) "A ton against a ton more"? 
    
    Besides which, what "war"?  How can one be at war with carnivorous
    animals?  Seems to me it would be a short "war."  Come out of hyper,
    nuke planet, return to hyper.  I don't think the filmmakers could get
    away with the "nobody believes Ripley" excuse twice.  This doesn't
    sound like a "war," this sounds like racial genocide, or at the very
    least forced extinction.  Should we 'declare war' on sharks because
    they eat humans sometimes? 
    
    (Not to get all moral or anything, it's just that it seems to me that
    "Earth Carries the War to the Aliens' Planet" would be a pretty stupid
    concept for a sequel.) 
    
    One thing I thought of would be to carry the 'series' back home--
    somehow an alien gets loose on Earth.  Except ALIENS showed the buggers
    really aren't _that_ hard to kill as long as you've get the right
    weapons around.  And 'aliens on Earth' has certainly been done to death
    in the movies.  Battle against grown aliens would just be ALIENS again;
    battle against infection and embryos would be more like "Invasion of
    the Body Snatchers," or "The Thing." I don't see much interesting they
    could do with this. 
    
    Any ideas floating around out there on what they could do with the
    sequel?  It seems to me, after putting just minutes and minutes of
    thought into it, that ALIENS has to some figurative extent painted the
    'series' into a corner.  Unless there's good ideas for III, I'd say
    they're at a fine 'stopping point.' 
                                   
    Matt

    	Perhaps the sequel could be that the humans unite with the aliens
    from the derelict spaceship on Acheron, find where the Aliens originate
    from, and discover that they are actually SUPERIOR beings, and that
    their ferocious lifestyles are THE morally-correct way of the Universe,
    and that our so-called traits of benevolence and kindness are
    disgusting and horrid immoralities - basing this on survival of
    the fittest at all costs being the Aliens' "First Commandment"!
    	The humans and their alien allies realize they must then become
    LIKE the Aliens to survive, thus giving the sequel a very interesting
    plot twist in the sense of do the GOOD guys win, and does that have
    any true meaning anymore?
    
    	Larry
    

    As a title for a potential third movie, I think I'd prefer
    "A Shi{p,t}load of Aliens". :-)
    
    Possible sequel idea:
    
    Ripley, Hicks, Bishop, and Newt get back to Gateway Station. They
    tell the *Colonial* authorities, rather than the Company. Since
    there are four of them telling the same thing, I doubt they would
    be disbelieved. The Colonial Administration declares Talos IV---
    I mean LV-426 --- off-limits to everybody, but wants to set up a
    research facility near the derelict to study the Aliens under
    controlled circumstances (after all, they know what to expect
    this time). They *need* to study them to find ways to destroy
    them without spraying acid all over the place, just in case
    humans ever have to deal with them again.
    	Of course, something eventually goes wrong, and the horror
    begins once again...
    
    I agree that another film should not be made unless they have
    a storyline that would make it worth doing.
    
    re:.15mumble
    
    The trouble with an Alien or Aliens getting to Earth is that,
    sure, they can be wiped out with enough concentration of offensive
    action, but would they ever be sure that they got *all* of the
    suckers?

    --- jerry

    	Jerry gave me an idea......
    
    	Let's bring some Talosians to Acheron.  They'll put images in
    the Aliens' minds, making them think that humans are friends.  That
    way, nobody'll get hurt, and the Milky Way Galaxy will be safe for
    humanity again!
    
    	Until the Talosians decide to stop...........
    
    	Larry
    

    I have only read through .16, but concerning sequels:
    
    an implanted embryo is not needed.  Bishop could have taken an egg
    which could ripen enflight and be waiting for the survivors to wake
    up.
    

    re:.159
    
    The question then becomes "Where did Bishop get the egg?"
    
    The second question is "Where would he put it?"
    	--- It has to remain hidden from Colonial authorities. Remember,
    	    the Sulaco is a military ship, not a Company ship. It's
    	    likely to dock at a military port.
    	--- It could only get one of the survivors. The others would
    	    then know, and deal with it.
    	--- Bishop wasn't in much of a position by the end of the movie
    	    to do much about preventing the others from dealing with
    	    the problem.
    
    The other problem I have with Bishop covertly sneaking an Alien
    (of some form) back is that it's simply wrong from a viewpoint of
    character. When Ripley finds out that he was synthetic, she flipped
    out (not unreasonably, from her perspective), and would not trust
    him or even have anything to do with him. Bishop was obviously
    hurt by Ripley's prejudice, not understanding, with a childlike
    innocence, why Ripley felt this way. Eventually, through his
    actions, he proved himself to be trustworthy. Ripley found herself
    in the position of being forced to trust him, and he came through.
    Writer/director Cameron clearly went out of his way to make the
    audience believe that Bishop was not a sneaky slug.
    
    From a more logical view, if Bishop was going to try to sneak an
    Alien back, the smart thing would have been to leave Ripley behind,
    zip off back to the Sulaco as soon as Ripley went back down to the
    nest to get Newt. It was obvious that she made a dangerous enemy,
    and the chance that she'd discover what he was up to would be too
    great to risk. Instead, he waited until *literally* the last minute,
    risking his life and his hypothetical mission in the process.
    
    --- jerry

Well, I've been late getting to see this movie, but I finally found someone to
go with me! 

Some points: 
          
Who turned off the beacon?  In Alien, the whole thing starts when they check
out the warning from the derelict ship.  I don't think they turned it off in
Alien, so how come the colonists don't detect and check out the derelict first
thing? 

I liked the military humor quite a bit.  "Fly the friendly skies" cracked me
right up. 

To those of you wondering about the Spanish on Vasquez' T-shirt - I know why
you were looking there!  I can certainly believe she was never mistaken for a
man! 

When the aliens break into the operations center, the first thing that popped
into my head was, "Bugs, Mr. Rico!"  (Did I notice someone named Rico
scrolling by during the credits?)            

I think that any alien can become a queen.  After all, this can happen in
several species of earthly bees. (It's certainly true that any queen can
become a warrior!)
                                                                
Aliens may be intelligent, but even if they are, they may be a bit too
*trusting* to match up all that well against humans.  Ripley demonstrates that
she has the capability to destroy all or many of the eggs, and in my opinion
the Alien Big Momma (and what a BIG Momma she was!) deliberately calls off the
guard.  "You leave MY kids alone, and you can keep yours." But Ripley breaks
this truce without a second thought, even though she knew that the whole place
was gonna go blooie within minutes.  (Admittedly, that one egg picked the
WRONG time to hatch.  Maybe the look Ripley gave the ABM was rueful rather
than hateful - "Sorry, I can't trust your kid" - but I rather think she
intended to torch the place the whole time.) 

Ripley would be fun to play Diplomacy with, and she's nowhere NEAR as slimey
as Burke.  In any sequel, I think we'd get the aliens with treachery as much
as with firepower. 

    re:.161
    
    "Who turned off the beacon?"
    
    There's a posting in SF-Lovers to the effect that the original
    cut of ALIEN shown in some areas (I don't remember it in Boston,
    and I saw it opening day) showed Dallas finding the beacon and
    shutting it off. A follow-up posting said that he remembers this
    scene when it was shown on British (cable?) tv. It's not on the
    videotape, and as I said, I don't remember seeing it in the film
    in theaters, either. At any rate, who's to say that it wasn't
    shut off, even though we didn't see that happen? And who else is
    to say that it didn't just give out in the intervening years?
    
    Vasquez's slogan
    
    The slogan wasn't on her t-shirt, but her armor, so one really
    can't notice anything but her slogan. :-)
    
    "Mr. Rico"
    
    Yes, there was an actor named Rico in the film, but I can't
    remember his last name. He played Frost, the black grunt who,
    when the order came to not use the armor-piercing shells, said,
    "So what are we supposed to use, harsh language?"
    
    The phrase that popped into my mind in the face-hugger_attacking_
    Ripley scene was a little ditty by the Perfect Master of Comic
    Art, Will Eisner, in his classic strip "The Spirit":
    
    "Evvy little bug got a honey ta hug but me."
    
    
    --- jerry

Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!sri-unix!sri-spam!caip!seismo!mcvax!ukc!einode!simon
Subject: Re: ALIENS
Posted: 1 Sep 86 14:22:27 GMT
Organization: The National Software Centre, Dublin, Ireland.
 
> 
> From: Wes Miller <[email protected]>
> 
> 	I saw ALIEN the first or second day it came out in Boston. There was
> an additional 5 minutes or so of extra film that was cut out of some of the
> other versions, including the Laser copy I own. I positively remember that the
> exploration scenes on the alien ship were much longer and I specifically
> remember seeing the crew find the beacon. It was located in the wall in the
> same room where the dead pilot was and was behind a 'glass' case. The beacon
> looked much like a phonograph and I do recall that the crew shut off the
> beacon before the incident with the face hugger. Did anyone else recall this
> version? Or was it another movie?
that version was shown on british television (ITV)
-- 
Simon Kenyon			The National Software Centre, Dublin, IRELAND
[email protected]						+353-1-716255
EEEK /dev/mouse escaped (Glad to see my competition went down well at USENIX)




Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!pyramid!hplabs!sri-unix!sri-spam!nike!ucbcad!ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdcc6!loral!dml
Subject: Re: Aliens (kinda late)
Posted: 2 Sep 86 21:41:31 GMT
Organization: Loral Instrumentation, San Diego
 
-------------------------------
 
  I have seen Aliens and think I have some answers to some of the `flaws'
people have been pointing out on the net. About the only things I saw wrong
with it were an incredibly stupid blunder, and the fusion reactor blowing
its top so easily.
 
  Our news is dead. I don't know when this article will hit the net. I
hope the Aliens debate hasn't died by then.
 
Ripley's nightmare:  Very effectively conveys the way she is haunted by the
  events shown in Alien. After what she went through, I'd be surprised if she
  DIDN'T have nightmares.
 
Ammo capacity of the M-41A:  If you listen closely when Hicks is describing the
  weapon you will note that he says "ten millimeter CASELESS". Observe that
  they do not spit out a stream of spent cartridges when fired. Caseless rounds
  are significantly smaller than the cased ammo you're used to seeing (no bulky
  brass), and can be packed in a magazine more efficiently. The M-41A magazine,
  which looked to be about six inches by three by two, could well hold 95
  10mm caseless rounds.
  Side note: Spent magazines are probably disposable. Saves time in combat, and
  since caseless ammo can't be stuffed into the magazine by hand would probably
  be cheaper than transporting a loading machine on the ship.
 
Why the Lieutenant directs the operation by remote control:  Though we wouldn't
  do it that way today, maybe they've learned something. At least it keeps one
  link in the chain of command intact, which is an advantage if your commander
  is competent. It's true that in this case the best thing the Lieutenant could
  do would be to get killed off. (He does redeem himself. Remember when Vasquez
  runs out of ammo? The Lieutenant turns back to help her. When they are sur-
  rounded by Aliens, it's the Lieutenant who pulls out and arms a grenade.)
 
Why everybody is sent into the Alien nest:  Everybody is not sent. One Marine
  remains on the lander with the pilot, and Burke, Ripley and the Lieutenant
  remain in the ground transport. Bishop too, I think.
 
Why the lander is parked with the ramp down:  The Lieutenant has declared the
  area secure.
 
Why they don't get wise to the Aliens sneaking in from above:  They only do it
  twice and the conditions are different. The first time, they are hiding in
  the slime-stuff, and they look just like part of it until they move. The
  Marines wouldn't know how that stuff is supposed to look anyway. Second time,
  they're up in the ceiling plenum, out of sight.
 
Are these Aliens wimpy compared to the original?  I don't think so. Remember,
  the crew of the Nostromo were civilians with no combat training, and had no
  idea what they were up against. At first they are unarmed, then they build
  some makeshift weapons which they don't really get a chance to use. The
  Colonial Marines are experienced warriors armed with the latest equipment;
  it only makes sense that they will be more effective. Also, Dallas & co.
  didn't dare injure the Alien on board the Nostromo! The Nostromo's primary
  hull was an integral part of the hyperdrive generator, with molecular
  circuits running all through it. Let Alien-juice eat one hole in the hull
  and the hyperdrive will be ruined. If the drive is active at the time, it
  could blow up the ship! If it doesn't, the crew will still die of old age
  even if they manage to kill the Alien. (Explained in the book)
 
What the Aliens eat:  Anything they want to. They've had the run of the colony
  for several weeks. Also, I think they can sort of hibernate when inactive,
  to save energy. That would explain why they don't pounce on the Marines at
  once -- either they need a little time to warm up, or they don't notice them
  until they start flaming. Side note -- I think they breathe through those
  tubes on their backs.
 
Why Ripley toasts the Alien eggs:  One of the damned things just opened up. I
  wouldn't want one - or more - of those hand-crab monsters at large behind
  MY back. And she just wrestled with one a few hours ago.
 
Why Bishop moves the lander:  The platform is unstable. In fact, when I saw the
  scene, I expected the platform to collapse when he set down. The platform
  looks flimsy, the lander looks solid. As for why he's out of sight, maybe
  prolonged hovering puts a strain on the lander's engines or is horribly
  wasteful of fuel.
 
Why Ripley uses a power-loader in her battle with the Alien-Queen:  It's the
  only thing she can get her hands on. Remember, the Sulaco is an interstellar
  troopship, not a battlecraft. I would not expect to find personal small arms
  anywhere but on board the landing craft. Even if there were one or more
  small-arms lockers in the ship itself:
   1. Would there be one close to the hangar deck? Time is critical.
   2. Would Ripley know where it is?
   3. Would she be authorized to open it -- have the key/combination/access
      code required? I don't think so. I think only the Lieutenant, the
      Sergeant, Bishop, Hicks and Vasquez would be so authorized.
  So, the only guns available to Ripley are on board the lander, and the Queen
  is in the way. Ripley is forced to improvise with the power-loader.
 
Why Ripley doesn't lose a leg:  The Queen grabbed her boot, and it came off.
  It looked like part of her pant leg came off too.
 
Incredibly stupid blunder:  Ripley goes into the Alien nest WITHOUT SPARE
  MAGAZINES FOR THE M-41A! NO-body that stupid could live to adulthood.
 
Alien origin:  I agree with the posters who think Aliens are genetically
  engineered weapons. They are completely efficient, adaptable to a wider range
  of environments than any single planet could provide, and they run through
  the available supply of hosts in short order. Any successful evolved parasite
  would have to somehow leave a breeding stock of hosts. Also, a naturally
  evolved critter would of necessity be adapted to use the organisms present on
  its home planet; these have no trouble with a completely alien host.
 
-------------------------------
		Dave Lewis    Loral Instrumentation   San Diego
 
  hp-sdd --\     ihnp4 --\
  sdcrdcf --\      bang --\   kontron -\
  csndvax ---\   calmasd -->-->!crash --\
  celerity --->------->!sdcsvax!sdcc3 --->--->!loral!dml  (uucp)
  dcdwest ---/                 gould9 --/
 
 "I'm a ZIT! Get it? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"
 "FOOD FIGHT!!!!"
 

    Just saw the flick again (how many times, now? I lost count) and
    noticed something with regards to the first initials of the Marines
    as displayed on the monitors. With the exception of Hicks, whose
    first initial is "D", and is played by Michael Biehn, all of the
    first initials are the same as the first initials of the actors
    playing the parts. For example, Frost's first initial is "R", and
    he's played by Ricco Ross. Jenette Goldstein plays J. Vasquez.
    Cynthia Scott plays C. Dietrich. And so on.
    
    And by the way, since I answered the question already in TRIVIA,
    I'll mention here that the nickname of the first dropship is
    "BUG-STOMPER". It's on the upper edge of the red circle painted
    on the side of the ship.
    
    --- jerry

    RE .164
    
    Except for Ripley E. a.k.a. Sigorney Weaver
    
    Steve

     
    Wow - I just saw the movie two days ago, and I noticed a few things
    that hadn't been noted in earlier replies:
     
    1) The bugs definitely do not need air. They were originally found
    on a bare rock that hadn't been terraformed yet - they wouldn't
    have survived if they needed to breath air. So what happens if the
    Queen stays in orbit and is found by someone...?
    
    2) Why didn't they leave someone on the ship in orbit? They should've
    assumed that the planet's transmitter was out and they wouldn't
    be able to contact the ship. Very sloppy...
    
    3) I thought the APC was very impractical. Wheeled vehicles are
    just no good at moving on rough terrain, and that thing had very
    little ground clearance. If they'd had to go up a two-foot high
    step they would have been in deep sh*t. 
    
    4) As far as sequels go, I'm looking for something from Hicks. I
    thought it was very strange that he was just lying unconscious for
    the entire final battle. Either the writers forgat about him or
    they've got something else planned. I don't think, however, that
    there will be an embryo implanted in anyone. It would be too tough
    to make any kind of original plot about a single Alien running around
    a ship/spaceship/planet.
    
    
    A *GREAT* line: "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid."
    
    Roy

    RE .166
    
    1. The planet that the bug were on had it's own atmosphere before
    the humans showed.  The bugs are not native to the planet and when
    in the original movie the face hugger pods were found they were
    being kept alive by some sort of life support system still active
    on the alien spacecraft. Granted though they may not require air
    or whatever to servive.
        
    The queen bug was shot out of the air hatch towards the planet and
    will in all likelihood reenter the planet atmosphere and burn up.
    There are still more hugger pods on the planet though.
    
    2.  The planets transmitter  was out but they did not plan on losing
    the assault craft that brought them to the planet. The assault craft
    was there main means of communication not the planets transmitter.
    
    3. agreed.
    
    4. Hocks was lying unconscious for the final battle because he was
    severely hurt and in pain and was sedated.  The grand finale was
    Ripleys because she was the protagonist.  
           

    
    Steve

    re:.165
    
    I didn't mention Ripley because I specified "Marines". Ripley was
    not one of the Marines. Seocndly, the correlation was only noticible
    for those Marines who had first initials displayed on the monitors.
    The only way of finding out the first initials of Gorman, Ferro,
    and Spunkmeyer would be a freeze-frame of the cold-sleep monitor
    just before the crew is woken up.
    
    re:.166
    
    Aside from what Steve already said, just because the dormant face-
    huggers in the sealed eggs might survive sans atmosphere, that
    doesn't mean that a full-grown, active critter can do without.
    
    --- jerry

Re: discussion of a follow-on film...

The design of the "bugs" suggests that they are bio-engineered. They DO
seem capable of surviving in a vacuum, they are very tough, and their
eating/reproducing habits are strange. With "molecular acid" for blood,
their metabolizm must be very violent (compared to ours, which is slow
oxidation of carbon compounds in oxygen). If something that dissolves
metal is blood, then maybe METAL is "food", and biological hosts are
only required for the embryonic form. (metal could be oxidized in oxygen,
chlorene, etc. for energy- and the oxidant need not be a gas- a 
substantial amount of fluid oxidant could be carried around by the bug
itself, something like a scuba diver or man in spacesuit- this would
give it a signifigant protection from hostile environments. The creature
might even be NUCLEAR- using slow decay of metal isotopes controlled by
nuetron-absorbing elements in the blood. The marines never bothered to
check this, but it might be a good idea, since a radioactive bug is
a menace even if it shakes your hand.

Anyway, suppose the bugs are bio-engineered: then they could be two
different types of weapon (assuming that's what they're used for). They
could be berserkers, weapons which annihilate anything (within a certain
class of objects) they encounter. This is how they behave in ALIEN and
ALIENS. But suppose there is a way to control them- and when the control
is not being imposed, they are either dormant (nothing to attack) or
berserk (attack for no reason). 

Now, what would it be like to meet these beasties if they were under
intelligent control? And what if the intelligence that controls them
uses them as the weakest and most simple weapon in their armory?

John O.

    I like that.  Very well put.  You aught to send it to the authors
    of the story.  Mybe you could get some royalties on the next one.
    
    Steve
   
    
    
    

    	In Arthur C. Clarke's novelization of 2010: ODYSSEY TWO, the
    crew of the LEONOV gets the jitters while exploring the interior
    of the still-inactive spaceship DISCOVERY when someone reminds them
    of the ALIEN video they recently saw!
    	The book came out in 1982, so ALIENS wasn't around for the 1982
    version of the year 2010! :^)
    
    	Larry
    

I liked Aliens a lot, but thought there was one major boo-boo.
The loader which was used in the fight with mama in the end probably
would not make sense out in space.  Why didn't they just turn off
the artificial gravity to tug things around?  I know that doesn't
help when you are moving truely massive objects, but I'm sure
anything which masses less than 5,000 kilo's could be manuvered with much
more precision.  Or just use small anti-grav units.

    re:.172
    
    Turning off the artificial gravity also means it's awkward for
    you to move around. And it doesn't make the inertia problem any
    easier. First, you have to exert enough force to get the mass
    moving. Now once you have it moving, you have to exert the
    necessary force to stop it (and stop it just where you want it).
    It doesn't take 5000 kilos to cause problems here. All it takes
    is something with a mass that's a significant percentage of yours.
    	You'd also be inconveniencing the other people who would be
    in your zero-gee zone. They might be doing work that is easier
    with gravity than without.
    
    The exo-skeletons make much more sense.
    
    It's also not clear that they had portable anti-grav units. They
    clearly had artificial gravity, but the generators for such may
    well need to be huge.
    
    --- jerry

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From:	ASD::CONLIFFE     "You never know until later" 
To:	CLUSTA::NEILSEN,CONLIFFE
Subj:	For Desperado ...

Having seen the movie, I would like to buy a yellow diamond of the form

		ALIEN
	 	  IN
		THROAT

				=*=

    Re: loaders and zero-G
     
    Try soldering in zero-g.  Or welding.  Or taking a shower.
     
     
    Or making cornbread.    :-)
    

    re: 171
    
    	just to be picky...  just because they watched ALIEN doesn't
    mean ALIENS wasn't available.  I think ALIEN was a much scary movie
    than ALIENS because you were always on the edge of your seat waiting
    for something to happen (and then wishing it hadn't when it did)
    
    just a thought,
    
    	Westgate

    	There is a trend in the ALIEN movies and books which I fear
    is happening (and going to happen) to our space activities in the
    future - that the lure of outer space is no longer one of exploring
    the Universe's mysteries, but to make a fast buck.
    	Look at how the starship crew which picked up Ripley's lifecraft
    in interstellar space reacted to it; they didn't want to find out
    what the ship was for a better understanding of another mystery
    in space, but to see if they could gain any profit from it as scrap
    metal, as wel as their disappointment that Jones the cat was not
    an alien life form, because that would have brought them a big bonus.
    
    	I realize that when we begin to seriously colonize space, of
    course many things will become familiar and commercial - but I hope
    that not EVERYWHERE humanity will go out there will become a profit
    and loss mission!  
    	Maybe I'm just an "old timer" who got a big thrill out of seeing
    some astronauts orbit Earth or land on the Moon with primitive little
    vehicles, but I really think it would harm our society if we lost
    that sense of wonder and curiosity about the Universe - besides,
    it is neive to think that we will know it all about outer space
    in even a dozen centuries down the road!
    
    	Larry
    

    RE: .175 "doing things in zero G"
    
    If you go through the Skylab exhibit at the Smithsonian Air and
    Space museum you can see where the crew shower was a sort of round
    yellow shower curtain just like on an old fashioned clawfoot bathtub
    on earth, except the water was somehow drawn over the astronauts
    bodies by means of some kind of vacuum suction in the base.

    re:.177
    
    (1) The crew that picked up Ripley was a salvage team. It's their
    *job*, their livelihood to look for salvage. Naturally they were
    disappointed when they found out that they'd get nothing from the
    Narcissus.
    
    (2) Explorers have always paved the way for the exploiters. Why
    assume that in the ALIENS universe there aren't still dreamers
    and explorers, just because all we're shown is the commercial
    side of things?
    
    (3) Traditionally, exploration has had an ulterior commercial
    motive to it. It's the nature of the beast. Isabella didn't
    support Columbus out of a desire for abstract knowledge. The
    vikings didn't set sail just for a lark.
    
    --- jerry

    RE .177
    
    Also there was no mention made of there disappoint about the cat
    not being alien.  Thier only coments were to the effect that the
    life supports were still functioning and that the salvage rights
    were blown.
    
    Steve
    
    Have you seen the movie yet Larry?

    	I took my example from the novelization of ALIENS.
    
    	I was just concerned about the way space exploration was projected
    in ALIEN and S.  I'm sure there are pure exploration teams roaming
    the stars in that future time, but the view these movies gave was
    one of space is only good for a fast buck, and that anything which
    isn't human is dangerous (or potentially so).
    
    	I remember in ALIEN, the only crewmember who seemed actually
    eager to go studying that alien derelict on Acheron - Kane - was
    "rewarded" for his more-or-less "pure" (non-profit) curiosity with
    a face-hugger and a horrible death (yes, I know most of the others
    didn't have a picnic, either).  To me, it seemed to say that knowledge
    is dangerous - for if they had avoided the warning signal and headed
    home to Earth with their ore, they would have made a bundle; and
    the SCIENCE officer, Ash, had become the very literal symbol of
    monetary profit - the Company, a cold machine "caring" only to get
    as much material gain out of the alien as possible, even to the
    point of making money off of war technology!
    
    	Larry
    

    But Larry, if you think back, you'll remember that the ship was
    a commercial mining ship; and the crew spent a lot of time talking
    about *money* (in Alien, part 1).
    
    If you want the 'shear joy of knowledge' crowd, warp on over to
    the StarTrek universe... Realize, young fella', that those starry
    eyed seekers after knowledge, for knowledge's sake, must be *funded*.

    (Ah ! the purity of unsullied youth !) Hi Larry.  And by the way;
    _have_ you seen Aliens yet ?
    
    Dwight
    (well, _I_ haven't)

Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!amdcad!lll-crg!rutgers!caip!daemon
Subject: Part 3 : MORE ALIENS
Posted: 11 Oct 86 18:00:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
 
From: nutto%[email protected]  (Andy Steinberg)
 
In ALIEN the movie we never did see what happened to Dallas and the
others whom the alien captured. In the novelization Ripley finds
Dallas and Brett encased in cocoons with alien larvae feeding on them.
My own personal theory is that the derelict was an alien ship from far
beyond earth's sphere of existence. I say this because (1) Humans had
never before encountered a ship of that form or creatures like the
dead pilot (2) LV-426 was unsurveyed until the Nostromo landed on it
although the Company had previously decoded the beacon (3) in ALIENS
the company agent said a creature that "gestates inside a living human
host and has acid for blood" had never beed discovered on over 300
known planets. I believe the ship was carrying the last of the alien
eggs to dump on an isolated planet but the ship crashed and some the
eggs hatched. An interesting question is raised here, what happened to
the alien that matured inside the pilot? And also, if LV-426 was
outside the fringes of human civilization, where was the Nostomo
returning from with its cargo of crude oil? Lambert said it would take
them 10 months to get back to Earth, they had probably been in
hypersleep for years before then. In ALIENS the movie there seemed to
be only one atmospheric processor, in the novel there were dozens of
them all over the planet. Can anyone clear up these mysteries, or will
we just have to wait for the sequel when somebody picks up the alien
queen floating in space in MORE ALIENS? Personally I think they did a
magnificent job on both ALIEN and ALIENS and should quit while they're
ahead. 

    	ALIENS will be out on video February 26, 1987!
    
    	Larry
    

Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies,rec.arts.sf-lovers,rec.arts.books
Path: decwrl!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!ames!think!husc6!husc2!chiaraviglio
Subject: ALIENS:  The Book:  Not nearly as good as the movie (Minor Spoiler).
Posted: 15 Jan 87 07:25:30 GMT
Organization: Harvard Univ. Science Ctr., Cambridge, MA
Xref: decwrl rec.arts.movies:587 rec.arts.sf-lovers:733 rec.arts.books:120
 

     Today I read excerpts of ALIENS by Alan Dean Foster because I was
looking for a description of scenes that were filmed but cut (like the
one where Ripley finds that her daughter is dead).  I found this, but
it didn't help because the book is written as if the Moral Majority or
something had gotten its censoring hands on it.  Not only is all of
the harsh language gone, but all the rest of the humanity, including
the peoples' humor, which was a significant part of the movie.  It has
been wimped down almost to the level of a children's book.  I wonder
what happened to cause this?  While I have often heard (and noticed)
that movies produced from books are generally much inferior to the
books, I am beginning to think that the reverse is also true. 
 
     I don't get rec.arts.books, so (cross-)post responses to one or
both of the other two groups, or send me mail. 
  
	-- Lucius Chiaraviglio
	   [email protected]
	   seismo!tardis!lucius
 
Please do not mail replies to me on husc2 (disk quota problems, and
mail out of this system is unreliable).  Please send only to the
address given above. 

    Just read this morning in the Marilyn Beck column on Hollywood that
    ther will be no sequel to Aliens.  The writer/director James Cameron
    said he wasn't interested and he had said all there was to say about
    the Aliens.
    
    Steve
  

    	Thank God!  Perhaps this is an end to the sequelitis era!
    
    	Besides, unless someone has thought of something really
    imaginative, I doubt that anyone could have done anything more with
    the Aliens than just have a bigger battle to the death.
    
    	Larry
    

            <<< UCOUNT::DISK$USER01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MOVIES.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< You be the critic >-
================================================================================
Note 295.45               SEQUELS...Is there no end?                    45 of 46
CSC32::RITTER                                        22 lines  27-JAN-1987 11:13
                   -< Just when you thought it was safe... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
   re: 295.44
    
    From the wire service.  Reprinted (of course) without permission.
    
                       Marilyn Beck  -  Hollywood
    
    20th Century Fox is interviewing writers about an ALIENS sequel
    but isn't bothering to meet with James Cameron, who wrote and 
    directed the 1986 blockbuster.

    "We made it clear when we finished the picture that we were not
    interested in doing another ALIENS" says Cameron's wife, Gale
    Anne Hurd, who produced the feature.  "We decided we had said as
    much about ALIENS as we could possibly say.
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I guess this means they're seriously considering it.  Lets hope
    they give up.
    
    Keith  (leave it alone) Ritter
     

    I was just about to say, just because *Cameron* doesn't want
    to make another film doesn't mean there won't be any more.
    Rumors had been posted in SF-Lovers last summer that Ridley
    Scott (director of the original ALIEN) and Sigourney Weaver
    herself were interested in possibly directing another film.
    
    --- jerry

    You know how it is.  We need a new menace for Rocky V.  Stallone
    will produce and act, Weaver will direct and act.  Audiences everywhere
    will regurgitate, and Somebody will make a lot of money :^).

    re:.190
    
    Sounds good to me, as long as Ripley gets to rambo Rocky...
    
    --- jerry

    ALIENS fans will be pleased to know that Sigourney Weaver has
    received an Oscar Nomination for Best Actress for her role in
    ALIENS.
    
    --- jerry

    After reading through all 192 replies (whew), I have a question
    that nobody else seems to have addressed.
    This may or may not be a vote for some form of inteligence in the
    aliens.
    As you recall, when ripley took off in the shuttle at the end of
    ALIEN she found the alien stowed away on board. But the alien made
    no attempt to attack her until she started to blast it with various
    gas jets.
    Was it because it knew that that without her there would be no escape?
    Was it because it hoped to be taken to Ripley's home planet?
    In all the other alien vs human confrontations, the alien always
    attacked the human. Here it had the chance and didn't. It seemed
    to be content to just sleep out the trip.
    Maybe it wasn't hungry at the moment and was saving ripley for a
    snack later on (if of course the alein uses humans for food which
    hasn't been settled yet).
    Why didn't the alien attack the cat when it had the chance?
    

    Almost forgot this one too.
    How did the alien know that the shuttle was the only escape from
    the about to explode ship?
    Did it know that the ship was about to explode in the first place.
    It seems to me to be too much of a coincidence to say that it just
    happened to wind up on the only means of escape from the ship.
    

    My impression is that the Alien was just using the shuttle for a
    safe haven.  Coincidance put it there when the Nostromo was blown.
    Then alien seemed to me to be coming up behind Ripley in the shuttle.
    When she turned around it was practically breathing on her.
    
    Steve

    The alien was coming up behind ripley but only after she tried to
    gas it. The first time she found it (before she went to the closet
    and put on the space suit) it didn't attempt to go after her. After
     she went to put on the spacesuit, she could see it through the
    window and it was curling back up in its hiding place and wasn't
    making any attempt to came after here
    
    
            	    _o__	
  		   ^__  \'
    		      \	 \'
                       \  \'
    		    \__/\  \'
              		 \  \------/
			 / --\
			/     \

    RE .196
    
    When she first saw it it was taking a snooze.  The Alien was unaware
    of Ripley until she woke it up with the venting of the gas (whatever
    that was) it then started it's approach to get her. Or was looking
    to find the culprite.
    
    Steve
    

    It's been a while since I saw this scene, but in my memory, Ripley
    first noticed the Alien when it made a half-hearted grab for her
    from its position embedded in the wall.  (I always wondered what
    vital ship systems it might have damaged, carving its little niche.)
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Re .198
    Thats the way it was. Ripley discovered it (woke it up whatever)
    before using the gas on it. It did swing an arm out but that was
    the extent of its actions. She then went  to the closet,put on space
    suit,went to console and turned on the gas. It was then that the
    alien uncurled itself and came after her. I watched it again to
    check and thats the way it was. 
 
    It made no attempt to attack her until she provoked it. It seemed
    content to just curl up and sleep.
    The question of why it was on the shuttle in the first place hasn't
    been addressed. I refuse to accept the fact that it was a coincidence.
    It suggests that it knew (inteligence?) that the ship was about
    to maximize its entropy and that the shuttle was the only way out.
    
    

RE .199
    
    
    Sleeping is not my idea of being worried about the ship blowing
    up.  The bug may have some semblance of intelligence as indicated
    by the queen bug in "Aliens" but that is about it. I doubt very
    seriously that the bug even knew it was on a spaceship let alone
    in the escape module.  This will get us know where unless they come
    out in a third movie and explicitly state the the Bugs are intelligent.
    
    Steve

    Why don't you accept the fact that the ALIENS actions on the shuttle
    are totaly different than any of its previous actions on the rest
    of the ship durring the rest of the movie.
    1)when did you ever see it sleeping while in the presence of a human.
    2)Saying that it just happened to be on the shuttle is like saying
      that winning the New York lottery 5 times in a row is a coincidece.
      Are you so convinced that it isn't intelligent that any thoughts
      to the contrary are not taken seriously or even given any
      consideration.
      I would like to hear from someone else out there as well since I
      am shure that I am not alone in my opinion 

    As you recall, I didn't say the ALIEN was intelligent. I suggested
    that its actions may indicate intelligence. :-)

    OK, don't call it "coincidence," call it "dramatic license" - if it
    hadn't happened to wind up on the shuttle, the ending would have been
    much less dramatic. 
    
    While reserving judgement on the degree of intelligence displayed
    by the alien - intelligence being difficult to judge even among
    our own species, never mind a completely new one - I might suggest
    that the alien was sleepy because it had just eaten and/or just
    reproduced, or was just *about* to reproduce (again). And perhaps
    it had learned that the humans couldn't harm it, and therefore it
    didn't fear sleeping in their presence - after all, a shepherd isn't
    afraid of napping amidst a herd of sheep.

    Does that make it intelligent? Maybe. But how much? As intelligent
    as a wolf? A crocodile? An ape? A human? Ve-e-ery hard to say.

    -b

    	The Alien in ALIEN was asleep aboard NOSTROMO's lifecraft when
    Ripley escaped in it.
    
    	Larry
    

    Re .201:
    
    > Saying that it just happened to be on the shuttle is like saying
    > that winning the New York lottery 5 times in a row is a coincidece.

    Assuming the chance of winning the New York lottery is one in a
    million, the chance of winning five times in a row, given that one
    plays every week for twenty or so years, is about 1 in
    1000000000000000000000000000.  The chance of being on the shuttle at a
    specific time might be approximated by the ratio of the volume of the
    shuttle to the volume of the area readily available (the ship was
    large, but the areas the humans used seemed to be small in comparison),
    which might be 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000.  Surely you are exaggerating.
    
    Perhaps the alien was attracted to the shuttle by the activity or some
    feature of it.
    
    
    				-- edp 

    Didn't Ripley get on the shuttle, then go back for the cat?  Perhaps
    the alien followed her scent trail (or some other clue) to the shuttle,
    heard her coming, then hid, waiting for the next meal to arrive.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    All I can say is watch it again. If it hadn't been for that last
    scene, I would have gone along with everyone who thinks that the
    ALIEN has no inteligence. It just that its actions in the last scene
    are totally unexpected based on its previous behavior. 

    Whats there to the last scene.  Ripley is in the Shuttle the Nostromo
    is no more and while she is undressing (yum yum 8^) ) The Alien
    stretches while asleep.  Ripley is rudely brought to the awareness
    that she didn't get the Alien so she takes steps to get rid of
    it.  Like Larry said the Alien was "ASLEEP" and unaware that Ripley
    was present until she woke it up.
    
    In "Aliens" the aliens are trying to preserve the race only.  they
    take the humans for embryo implanting and I guess food.  This is
    not an indication of intelligence just doing there thing.  The Queen
    *bug* in the end saw that Ripley and Newt got into an elevator
    and an elevator arrives at that moment which had been called
    previously by Ripley.  The Queen *bug* gets into the elevator which
    automatically returns to the point that it was called from.  The
    Queen bug did not operate the device.  The Queen bug showed a level
    of intelligence by discerning that the elevator was the same thing that
    her prey got into and got into to it to continue her pursuit.  The
    Queen had no idea that the elevator would take it to Ripley. 
    
    The Queen saw Ripely and Newt climb into the Marine assault craft
    and since this was where it's prey was it attached itself to the
    craft to continue the pursuit.  At no time was any level of
    intelligence above a animal hunter mentality displayed in either
    movie.

    Steve    

    He's right, you know (.207).  The primary attribute of the Bugs
    was survivability.  A primary requirement for survivability is
    adaptability.  The more variable the environments 'targeted', the
    more adaptable must be the species.  Intelligence is only ONE
    answer to maximizing the adaptability equation.

    These Bugs were reputed to be able to survive in virtually any 
    environment, so therer would necessarily be the capability to
    react in new ways to environmental stimulae (including cute manuevers
    by intended prey).
    
    Dwight

    I'm not sure the Aliens ever exhibit more than animal cunning. 
    But consider this possibility: In addition to the instincts and
    accumen natural to a good predator, they have an adaptive mode of
    behavior that is NOT "intelligence" as we would ever recognize it,
    but simply something else for which we have no name.  They ain't
    called Aliens for nothin'.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Well, I've finally finished reading this whole discussion (whew!),
    and I'm a bit surprised no one's mentioned the reference to Isaac
    Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics in the film. Bishop tells Ripley
    when she first discovers that he is an artificial person that he
    (or, rather, his model) has inhibitor circuits that prevent him
    from "harming a human being or, through inaction, allowing a human
    being to come to harm." This is an almost verbatim quotation of
    the First Law of Robotics. The other two involve a robot's duty
    to protect other robots and to protect itself, as long as such
    protection does not interfere with the First Law. This built-in
    "conscience" explains Bishop's willingness to to risk his life in
    crawling through the tunnel and in waiting for Ripley to come back.
    (I know he's a "good guy," but having these inhibitors must have
    affected his decisions, too.)
    
    I've watched the tape a couple of times now, and I have not noticed
    any reference or acknowledgment of Asimov. Has anyone else? I think
    the "borrowing" is too exact to be done without permission, unless
    they wanted to risk a law suit.
    
    -Rich

    	I think, although I'm not totally sure, that Asimov's Laws of
    Robotics have become almost standard in that everyone feels they
    can use them, they've become so universal.  I think they are even
    being applied to real, present-day robots as well.
    
    	If the androids in ALIENS were designed with these safety features,
    then it's more than obvious that the Company either took out or
    never gave Ash that "morality" in ALIEN, further proving just how
    power-corrupted the Company is.
    
    	Larry
                                                      

    Didn't Bishop imply that Ash was an older model that was "unstable."
    I took that to mean that he didn't have inhibitors.

RE: .210

The first law is to safeguard Humans
The second law is to obey humans
The third law is to safeguard the robot

Jim...

    Oh, well. I was doing it from memory, and it ain't what it used
    to be.
    -Rich

    As I recall it, Bishop made some remark to the effect that Ashe's
    model "was always a little flakey."
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Re the Three Laws of Robotics:
    
    Isaac Asimov went to a showing of _2001_ when it first came out,
    in the company of another writer (I forget who).  During the
    intermission, when it was obvious that HAL was going to plot against
    the crew, the Good DDoctor starrted fidgeting and even paced the
    theater aisle.
    
    The other writer said, "What's wrong?"
    
    "They're violating the First Law of Robotics," Dr. A. replied,
    agitatedly.
     
    His companion drawled, "Well, Isaac, why don't you strike them with
    lightning?"
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    I think the other writer may have been Carl Sagan, but I am not
    at all sure of it.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    re:.217.,216
    
    It was Arthur C. Clarke.

    From what Asimov has said in the past, it was John Campbell, Jr.
    who formulated the Three Laws in a story discussion with Asimov.
    I don't think that Asimov feels that he "owns" them.
    
    --- jerry

I certainly hope Asimov doesn't feel bound by them, since just about 
every robot story he's ever written shows a different way to get 
around them.  As a moral standard, the Three Laws are impossibly 
ill-defined.  What do they mean by harm?  Drinking a cup of coffee?
Going out on a date with an obvious loser?  There are obvious 
conflicts between someone's good and their freedom of action,
and no robot (or anyone else for that matter) can deterministically
resolve them.

    For that matter, what is a human being?  Are the insane or senile
or infantile human?  Should the robot obey their orders?  "Robot, I 
don't like the doors on that car.  Take them off."  What if
they're only a little insane or a little senile?  Is the robot the 
one to decide?  Would you trust your computer to do it?  Far from 
being "an accepted standard of behavior", the three laws are impossible
to pin down philosophically, and would be doubly so to implement.

/jlr

    Re the three laws:
    
    What happens if they're _really_ put in operation is covered in
    Williamson's _The Humanoids_.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

Actually, I don't think that The Three Laws are vague, or unimplementable
at all.  They could be implemented without any conditionals quite easily.

Of course I don't think that things would turn out very pleasant! :-)

I wonder what would happen if humans followed the laws...

Jim.

    RE .219
    
    >> what is a human.<<  Well In the Asimovian Universe man is the only
    satiate being.  The Eternals froze our universe in an evolutionary
    state where only man exists.  This was a deliberate act to maintain
    man and to keep man safe. This is brought out in "Foundations Edge"
    AS you all may know all of Asimovs books revolve in one way or another
    around the Galactic Empire and the Eternals.  Therefor "what is
    a human being" can be defined easily as any walking talking anybody.
    
    Steve
    

    re .222:
    
    >        ...           Well In the Asimovian Universe man is the only
    >satiate being.
    
    And I know _lots_ of them who are still unsatiated!  ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

RE .223
    
    Um...aaaaa oops.  Let me rephrase that...
    
    How about only intellegent being....Nop that doesn't work either.
    
    Steve 8^)

>    How about only intellegent being....Nop that doesn't work either.
    
and that's the whole point...
Nobody has yet come up with an objective criterion for determining
humanity.
- tom]

    
    --- jerry

    re 226:  No thanks; never touch the stuff.
    
    re 225:  To be objective you'd have to be an outsider; also, what
             is your yardstick?
                    
    						Don

    	Did anyone see SPITTING IMAGES last night on NBC?
    
    	It did a great satire on ALIENS (which has Weaver nominated 
    for Best Actress) and the Academy Awards in general.  The bit with 
    ALIENS had Weaver telling all the Marines to go searching for the 
    Aliens in dark, hidden passageways alone and do incredibly stupid 
    things to get killed, while she stayed behind and stripped down to 
    her underwear!
    
    	The show also had the Alien rubbing shoulders with all the big
    Hollywood actors ("Don't you hate it when all they want you for is
    your body?"), and that disgusting little chest-burster Alien kept
    looking for a seat and asking different people by bursting thorugh
    their chests! ("Excuse me...")  It was wild!  :^)
    
    	Check out UCOUNT::TV Note 234 for more on SPITTING IMAGES.
                                                                  
    	Larry
    

    RE. 228  wish I had seen that!
    
    
    Since this is a late reply, and I didn't have the patience to read
    but half of the others, I was wondering if anyone else considered
    there may be an Alien 'Daddy' out there somewhere?  I mean, who
    fertilized all those eggs anyway??
    
    Theresa.
    

    Well, there's always parthenogenesis.  But there were lots of alien
    eggs left on that planet, thus allowing for any number of sexes.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    	For those interested, ALIENS will be shown on Home Box Office
    (HBO) tonight at 8 pm EST, and throughout the month of July on the
    cable network.
    
    	Larry
    

      Don't you mean 8 pm EDT?  
      
      Dave C.

    	I suppose it all depends on your intra-parallel universe
    perspective during certain inter-universe tunnel transmission
    connections.
    
    	(Whew - got outta that one!)  :^)
    
    	Larry
    

    Re 503.1
    
    There are many ways to keep natural populations in check.  The Aliens
    need not be prey for anything nastier; like most predators at the
    top of the food chain, their numbers could be kept in check by food
    limitations -- running out of prey.  However, I WOULD expect the
    Aliens' native ecology to include creatures that could mount a
    reasonable defense against the Aliens themselves.  That could be
    very impressive in its own right -- massively armored, fantastically
    prolific, supersonically fast, downright invisible, or some combination
    of the above.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

  Re: 503.0

  Maybe the alien's blood was corrosive only in the "facehugger" stage
  of development?

  JP

    Alien blood is an acid in all stages of life we have seen in the
    movies.
    
    - Chris 

    	Oh no - remember how when Drake shot at several full-grown "worker"
    Aliens and their blood spurted out, it landed on him and practically
    burned his face off!  And when one of the Marines shot anothe radult
    Alien in the mouth ("Eat this!"), it's blood burned him, too.
    
    	In regards to Alien predators, I just thought of another, much
    more subtle type of creature which could cut down the Alien population:
    Disease bacteria and/or viruses.  We on Earth have had plenty of
    proof at just how powerful those microscopic life forms can be at
    reducing overpopulation!  Besides, remember how in H. G. Well's
    THE WOAR OF THE WORLDS, it wasn't any human military force which
    stopped the Martians, but rather "simple" bacteria - which the aliens'
    systems had no natural defense against - which did the job.
    
    	Larry
    

    (1) Of course, we don't really know if the acid *is* supposed
    to be blood. Dallas comments in ALIEN that the thing uses acid
    for blood, and everyone picks up on that. But he could have made
    his comment out of biological ignorance. I'm afraid I'm not up
    on my biology either. Would an acid have the necessary properties
    that would allow it to be used as blood? Assuming that the Aliens
    are silicon-based lifeforms?
    	The acid may well be simply a defense mechanism, such as an
    anenome's poison, rather than blood.
    
    (2) Assuming that the acid is indeed a defense mechanism, than it
    would follow that the Aliens have predators on their native world
    (assuming they are "natural") that make them look tame. That is,
    of course, what defense mechanisms are all about.
    
    (3) It should be noted that a biological defense mechanism is
    characteristic of prey, while everything else about the Aliens
    suggest that they are predators. It doesn't strike me as reasonable
    for a creature to have both characteristics to such a degree (humans
    are both, but certainly not to those extremes). Are there any
    Terran creatures that exhibit both characteristics? I submit that
    it's this very point that most strongly suggests that the Aliens
    are gengineered rather than natural.
    
    --- jerry

    I'm no expert, but I think a massively corrosive acid would tend
    to destroy any complex biochemicals it was mixed with, unless you
    added buffering agents which would themselves destroy the acid's
    corrosive properties.  Therefore, I agree with Jerry's suggestion
    that the "blood" is some other body fluid.
    
    I do not, however, find it likely that the Aliens are silicon-based.
    First of all, silicon chemistry is not particularly elaborate and
    flexible at temperatures as low as Earth's (and the Aliens can
    withstand Arctic temperatures, from what one sees in the movie.)
    Second, such a profoundly different metabolism could no more metabolize
    Terran flesh than Terrans can metabolize silicone rubber.
    
    The corrosive acid need not be a defense mechanism.  It might, for
    instance, be a toxin or digestive juice meant for the Aliens' prey,
    which a wound just accidentally releases.  If it is a defense
    mechanism, it might be meant for fighting within their species.
    
    Finally, lots of Earth animals are simultaneously very predatory
    and very much prey.  Any predatory insect qualifies as both.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

	Earl (.239) may be right on with his Terran insect analogy.
	Take for example the gypsy moth catepillar that has body juices
	that are so bitter (so they say but I'll be darn if I'll find out
	first hand) that birds and other normal insect predators refuse to
	eat them.  This allows the gypsy moth population to grow to the
	limits of the food supply or the birth rate, which ever comes first.
	(humm, sounds familar to the movie)

		Bob L.

    OK as far as the bug analogy goes.
    
    As for the Aliens being silicon based, I was basing that on a
    comment by Ash in the first movie when he was examining the
    face-hugger. He mentioned it have a number of silicon based
    compounds in its make-up.
    
    --- jerry

>Intelligent aliens?  Momma knew how to run an elevator, or (seemingly)
>	at least what it was for (she took her own car).

Yes; there were a number of incidents that suggested more than animal
intelligence.  Remember when the lights went out ?
("What do you mean, THEY cut the power ?")  Although I must admit
that frontal attacks on a heavily armed group don't put them up there
Niels Bohr in my book.  If they were a bio-engineered race (as has
been previously suggested), endowing them with a rudimentary intelligence
would seem desirable.  Also, the nest scene where Ripley threatens the eggs
shows clearly that the alien female understood what was going on (she calls
off some of the workers).

>One reviewer identified the big gun as a "power rifle."  Perhaps
>	it was some sort of recoiless rifle, but it was Vasquez
>	who gave the others more regular rifle clips when the Sarge
>	took them away - did she have both weapons?

I didn't follow this very closely; the lighting was too poor :-).
The impression I got was that she wasn't carrying a flame-thrower.
This would provide a clear incentive to me ("flame-throwers only, folks")
NOT to give up MY clips without a damned good explanation (which they
didn't get).

>Was anyone else distracted by the fact that the Marines were US Marines?

Not particularly.  Why is this a problem ?  It's plausible that Earth
politics might not have changed substantially in the time between now and
then (whenever THEN is).

>	Or that the Burke was worried about millions of dollars
>	(for the Nosotro and the terraforming plant) when billions or 
>	trillions of dollars would seem to be more rational costs?

Disinflation, maybe :-) ?  This might also be plausible; look at how the
price of computers has come down over the past 20 years.  Who's to say
that similar advances might not be made in spacecraft or building construction.
Remember that the terraforming plant would likely be built from indigenous
materials (although I'm puzzled that no robots were evident; this would seem
necessary for cost effectiveness.  AHA; they DO have androids!).  Also we can
assume that energy is cheaper in the future (the reactor in the terraforming
plant is a nuclear fusion reactor).

>    Anybody catch the name of the ship that brought the Marines to the
>    planet.  I got that question put to me and I know that it was mentioned
>    only once in the movie.

I believe it was the 'Su-lock-o' (phonetically spelled since I only heard it
pronounced).  I don't recognise the reference (nor that of the 'Nostromo'
from the first film.  Is there a subtlety or irony hiding in these names ?

    	I recall that the name is mentioned only once, but don't we
    also catch a glimpse of the name on the ship during one of the exterior
    shots?
    
    >US Marines??
    
    	I thought they were refered to as "Colonial Marines" ie:
    
    	Burke said "These Colonial Marines are tough Hombres"...
    
    Just being curious...
    
    brad
    
    (hope I didn't usurp somebody else's note this time :-) )
    
   

>    Is anyone here familiar with Joseph Conrad's works? In ALIEN,
>    the ship's name was Nostromo, which is also the title of a short
>    novel by Conrad. the Nostromo's shuttle was named Narcissus,
>    which may well be a reference to another Conrad book, THE NIGGER
>    OF THE NARCISSUS. Is Sulaco a Conradian reference as well?

I think I begin to see a pattern.  Conrad also wrote another novel
'Heart of Darkness' which would certainly be an appropriately thematic
name for a spacecraft.  I will check the Sulaco reference with an
English lit. major who I know.

    I'm suprised nothing's been said about this, but didn't anyone else
    notice a great deal of semblance to Heinlein's "Starship Toopers?"
    Not direct parallels, but many little things, and a general feel...
    
    	- "Bug hunts"
    	- drop ship
    	- Female dropship pilot
    	- Power loader <--> Powered Armour
    	- Marines reminded me of those in Starship Troopers anyways
    	- Proximity detectors/motion detectors
    
    I've thought of more, but I was curious about what anyone else
    thought.
    
    					-mjg
    

    Originality and Hollywood are mutually exclusive. The best
    moviemakers are those who plagiarize from the best sources.

    re:.247
    
    "The best moviemakers are those who plagiarize from the best
    sources."
    
    Then why would "they" plagiarize from Heinlein?
    
    --- jerry

    > Then why would "they" plagiarize from Heinlein?
      
    C'mon, Jerry, don't be cranky!  I know you're not one of RAH's fans,
    but there's no need to jump on the man.
    
    Besides, if "they" did plagarize, they stole plot and props, not polemic.
                                                             
    					andrew

    Reebok had a promotion scheduled to market the shoes
    that Weaver wore in Ailens;however,schedules slipped and the
    shoes have just now come to market. Good news-$70.00 Reeboks
    for 20 bucks if you dont mind grey with red stripes.
    
    I asked the salesman why they were so cheap and he told me 
    the story. Sure enough I reviewed my Ailens tape and there
    they were!
    
    Be the first in your neighborhood with real Ailens stompers!
    

    
    Y'know, it took me awhile to read through all these notes (*whew)
    and I'm actually surprised that, while most folks noticed that Ripley's
    shoe came off at the end, *no one* mentioned the fact that they
    were Reeboks, nor did anyone mention the fact that, when Ripley
    first got into the loader to "strut her stuff", the Reeboks had
    Velcro fasteners -- thus giving more credibility to the fact that
    the shoe slipped off so easily in Mama's grasp!
    There was a specific close-up of the shoe.  I had thought that this
    was so obvious that I was embarrassed to mention it.
    
    IMHO, that's just one of the things that makes this movie so *neat*.
    
    Carol
    

    Why did the Aliens need human hosts?
    
    Ignoring all of the biological compatability problems that I would
    imagine....
    
    Obviously they caused massive damage when they burst out, but did the
    baby Aliens EAT a human's insides?  I saw no real evidence for this.
    That is, Cain seemed to function okay UNTIL it started digging its
    way out.  If a thing that big had been chewing on his liver or
    something, I would expect him to be in a LOT of pain.
    
    Unless the baby provided an anesthetic or something.
    
    Or maybe the baby was inserted through the host's throat into his/her
    stomach or intestine, where it would feed like a tapeworm on food
    that the host had eaten.  Cain DID come out of his sleep very, very
    hungry, after all.....
    
    What do you think?
    
    				==ELB==

    re:.250
    
    Well, I know a number of people that noticed that Ripley (and
    Bishop as well) was wearing Reeboks. Didn't see any reason to
    mention it.
    
    Reebok wasn't *too* negligent in advertising. They did have an
    ad that ran last summer in at least ROLLING STONE that had the
    slogan: "Reebok --- Official Fighting Shoe of ALIENS!"
    
    --- jerry

    re: .252
    
    No, the baby aliens didn't eat its hosts insides. And I don't
    think Cain had been eating long enough before the alien burst out,
    to say that it was a tape-worm-like parasite (also, the woman
    beneath the reactor in Aliens hadn't eaten at all when her alien
    popped-out).  But, perhaps the alien somehow absorbed the acid
    in the hosts' stomaches?  Wouldn't this lowering of the acid level
    in the host cause hunger?  And seeing as how the alien had acid
    for blood, maybe the absorbed acid was used as a component in 
    the aliens' blood production process.
    
    -Steve T.

    To clarify myself, I did not mean to imply that the host eating food
    stimulated Baby to pop out.  It could have been feeding on stuff that
    was still in the stomach from breakfast or lunch, and then somehow
    decided "it was time". 
    
    We KNOW the Baby had a high metabolism.  Did you see how fast it
    could run across a floor!  So what was it eating?  How did it get
    it's energy?

    Even if it took acid from the human body (I have no idea how much
    there might be) I don't feel that it would provide nourishment for
    Baby.
    
    				==ELB==

    From the time we see the baby pop-out of Cain's tummy to the time
    it kills its first victim, Bret, we see it eat nothing. Yet in this
    time, it grows from the baby, to what we presume is the adult stage.
    Again let me emphasize, it does this without eating (people). As
    a matter of fact, we never see an alien EAT a person. We only see
    it KILL people by ramming its internal mouth through the victim's
    head.  If you read the book, you know that even when it took Dallas,
    it didn't eat him, it used him as a host (this kinda kills the
    queen-alien story line). So we see that aliens either kill people
    or use them as hosts. 
    
    Now, as noted by someone earlier, it would probably be unlikely
    that the alien could metabolize flesh, just as humans could probably
    not eat the flora/fauna of another planet... Anyway, lets suppose
    the the aliens are bio-engineered weapons.  If you were an advanced
    bio-engineer (and you'd have to be very advanced to create something
    like the Aliens) how would you engineer the alien/weapon to overcome
    the problem of being able to metabolize to food source on whatever
    planet you may use them on?  Easy, (almost), you make them not
    dependent on food for energy (not a new concept).  After all, for
    the baby to grow to adulthood without eating anything (that we
    know of), this would almost certainly have to be the case.
    
    Is it possible for the alien to metabolize something as mundane
    as water for energy?  Now thats one thing you might find common
    on many planets and its the one thing the alien would have had free
    access to on the Nostromo. As a matter of fact, when the alien killed
    Bret, didn't it come out of the shaft that was pouring water on
    Bret's head?
    
    -Steve

    No, it isn't possible to live by metabolizing water.  Not, at least,
    without combining it with another substance, which the larval alien
    would also have to supply.
    
    If the larva's teeth are very sharp (which would be in character)
    and it has some means of cauterizing wounds, it could dine on Cain's
    innards without attracting much notice and without having a
    human-specific local anesthetic.
    
    As to the size increase between Cain's death and Bret's, I assumed
    that it got into the ship's stores and ate its way through them,
    like a giant rat.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I agree with Earl.  It had to eat SOMETHING to gain all that mass.
    Maybe not people, but very likely ship's stores.  We know that the
    Aliens used at least two species as hosts (humans and the giants
    of the "Ship"), so maybe they can feed on them both, too.
    
    Even if one postulates it somehow converted energy to matter, it
    would take a LOT of energy (E=mc^2, after all) to get that big.
    And the feel of the movies (in my mind at least) was that of "hard"
    SF, where metabolizing energy (at any rate faster than plants) would
    be considered magical.

    Unless the Aliens are bio-engineered weapons (a distinct possibility)
    their sharp sets of many pointy teeth (not unlike those of a vorpal
    bunny  :-) prove the Aliens to be a race of carnivores.
    
        				==ELB==

    re:.257 re:.256
    
    As a matter of fact, in the novelization of ALIEN, it's mentioned
    that the critter *did* get into the food stores.
    
    --- jerry

    	Aside from the suspense and general scariness of ALIEN, the
    	first thing that really caught my attention about the movie
    	(as being interesting and relatively unique among movies
    	that show humans in future centuries) was the very casual
    	behavior of the crew on the Nostromo.
    
    	They wake up all sleepy and lazy (then go into the breakfast
    	nook where they almost sloppily chow down while bullsh*tting
    	in general and while the maintenance workers bitch about their
    	shares.)  Someone else mentioned earlier that they had lost
    	the "wonder" of space exploration and thought it was a negative
    	aspect of the movie.  *I* found it intriguing.
    
    	I also liked the almost messy quality of their "bridge" (with
    	high-tech stuff jammed all around them.)  This was not a ship
    	that customers took tours of -- this was a working ship designed
    	for ease of operation in the least possible amount of space
    	(at least as far as the bridge areas were concerned.)  
    
    	To me, it made it seem MUCH more realistic.  I can very easily
    	imagine that space-travellers who make their living hauling
    	space cargo would be just as bored with their jobs as anyone
    	else can get (and can sit around bitching about their employer
    	*AS WELL AS* have disputes among themselves about *WHO THE HECK
    	IS IN CHARGE HERE* and WHO gets to tell WHO to do WHAT.)
    
    	They didn't overdo it to the point of distracting from the plot
    	(in my opinion), but it made it seem much more real to me (almost
    	like a documentary) which made it scarier.
    
    	They carried much of that "realism" over to ALIENS (along with
    	a bit of humor, which I thought was GREAT!)  When I saw the
    	movie with my son in a theater (we have since seen it on various
    	pay cable channels about 20 times :-) we noticed that the audience
    	laughed out loud at several spots (mostly scenes involving Newt,
    	like when Ripley made the dramatic rescue of the troops and
    	Newt got knocked around in the vehicle somewhat but indicated
    	she was OK by a thumb's up signal.)  They also laughed when
    	Hudson suggested that they put NEWT in charge.

    	Last, but not least -- one of the most visually powerful scenes
    	in ALIENS (aside from those involving the bugs themselves)
    	was the one where Ripley is standing on the platform holding
    	Newt while the area is going to pieces around them.  The wind
    	is blowing them like crazy (but Ripley and Newt just hug the
    	daylights out of each other and bravely face what looks like
    	the end with no rescue.)  Ripley has just kicked some serious
    	*ss with the Aliens down below, but shows a great deal of love
    	for Newt (as the Momma approaches, she says, "Close your eyes,
    	Baby.")  I thought it was a nice way to balance out her impressive
    	performance with the weapons in a fight against the Aliens that
    	she essentially WON (except for Momma's pursuit.)
    
    	Just a bit of the human side to all this that I thought made
    	the two movies more interesting!
    
    							Suzanne...

    	About the nature of the Aliens themselves -- did anyone else
    	notice that they seemed to almost FLY in the air ducts while
    	they were chasing Ripley, Hicks, Newt, Gorman and Vasquez?
    	As Vasquez looked behind her, the Aliens were touching the
    	walls more than the surface below them as they increased their
    	speed (which seems to suggest that their "body mass" might
    	possibly be less solid than it looks.)  My son suggested some
    	sort of gas bags (which might also explain why they do not
    	need any sort of atmosphere to survive.)  Maybe they carry
    	their own supply?
    
    	That would explain why it was so easy for them to snooze on
    	the CEILINGS in ALIENS (stuck up in the goo above the heads
    	of the marines.)
    
    	The question left, of course, is:  Why, then, was it so easy
    	for them to sneak up on Newt in 3 feet of water (in GREAT
    	NUMBERS according to the motion detector that Ripley had)
    	without making so much as a ripple in the water behind Newt?
    	Their size ALONE would have had some of their body parts
    	sticking up in the air as they moved (they were definitely
    	more than 3 feet wide.)
    
    	The answer COULD be that they had let most of the air out
    	of their air bags and had made themselves thinner and less
    	bouyant (with their weight distributed over less body mass,
    	enabling them to stay underwater.)
    
    	I wonder if any of this was intentional on the part of the
    	filmmakers (or if they just thought the Aliens looked scarier
    	in the ducts if they appeared to FLY at Vasquez and if the
    	scene with Newt in the water would be more exciting if they
    	didn't show the Aliens until they were almost on top of Newt.)
    
    	Does anyone know if anything was said in the books about the
    	Aliens' bodies that would account for these things?
    
    	(P.S. Someone mentioned earlier that the Nostromo could have
    	been traveling with the crew asleep for years before Mother
    	woke them up to investigate the beacon.  I watched ALIEN on
    	tape again last night and Dallas definitely says, during
    	the conversation about "some of you may have realized that
    	we aren't home yet," that they are about HALF-WAY home.)

    						      Suzanne...

    
    Boyajian and some of the others should be able to elaborate on this
    but in the book it was mentioned that as the Aliens followed the
    survivors into the air ducts, they appeared to flatten their bodies
    to fit into the smaller spaces and still not lose any speed.  Nothing
    was mentioned about atmospheric conditions.  My guess is that they
    compressed their mass when they approached Newt in the sewers. 
    These suckers are very adept at hunting their prey and seem to know
    the value of stealth.
    I equate these things with cock-roaches -- ugly, scary, disgusting,
    durable and fast.......
    
    I'm still not sure about the air-bag theory though.  Interesting
    thought.
    
    Carol
    

>    I agree with Earl.  It had to eat SOMETHING to gain all that mass.
>    Maybe not people, but very likely ship's stores.  We know that the
>    Aliens used at least two species as hosts (humans and the giants
>    of the "Ship"), so maybe they can feed on them both, too.

Maybe the Aliens consume the host at leisure after eruption ?  Do we
ever get to see if they just leave the bodies webbed in the nest
till they rot (sorry about that :-) ?

>    Even if one postulates it somehow converted energy to matter, it
>    would take a LOT of energy (E=mc^2, after all) to get that big.

No, I think they must eat something.  Remember that they do rest.
For example, when the soldiers first arrive in the nest, they are not
immediately attacked.  My guess is that the screenwriters wanted us
to infer that the Aliens were 'hibernating' to conserve energy until
some hapless prey should stumble in and disturb them.  A creature that could
directly convert energy to matter from ether (by absorbing RF energy or whatever
mechanism you'd like to postulate) would probably not hibernate.  Given
an adequate supply of 'food' (energy), the Alien would be likely to
prowl continuously to increase its odds of finding hosts.  Of course one
could argue that 'food' is not as available inside a metal structure
(RF deflects from metal so that the normal wide spectrum of energy available
on a planet surface might not be accessible inside an engineered structure
like the terraforming plant).

Another point: insect bodies have a hard exoskeleton (I think it's called
chitin; any entomologists out there ?).  Even though the
Aliens appeared large, they might be quite light (i.e. not massive)
since they might have very little structure inside the exoskeleton.
This might provide an explanation for the previous comments about how easily
they moved (not much weight) and how they could submerge in water (the
cavities in the exoskeleton fill with water, so there isn't much
buoyancy.)

  Obviously the external tentacles must be strong enough
to accomplish what we saw the Aliens were capable of, but I don't
recall any instances where an Alien evinced superhuman strength
(i.e. greater than, say, twice as strong as a human) with the sole
exception of the Alien queen (lifting those gratings).  But it's already
been noted that her structure was somewhat different from that of the
workers.

What the workers had going for them was:

1.	High mobility (wall crawling, very quick)
2.	Acidic blood
3.	Reasonably strong exoskeleton
4.	Some clever biological predator 'surprises' (e.g. the
	extensible inner jaw set and a piercing tail (hmm;
	did the workers have these?) )

Did I forget anything ?

Does anyone recall an incident that suggested that the workers had
superhuman strength ?

>    Unless the Aliens are bio-engineered weapons (a distinct possibility)
>    their sharp sets of many pointy teeth (not unlike those of a vorpal
>    bunny  :-) prove the Aliens to be a race of carnivores.

I support the camp that says they are bioengineered.  Their biology is
a bit too peculiar to have evolved naturally.  If we assume that they
developed naturally, we have to answer some hard ecological
questions.

What kind of environment would support the development of
such a creature ?  Their home planet must be one VICIOUS den of vileness.
What would they use for hosts on that planet ? The hosts must have some
pretty nasty natural defense mechanisms against being overrun by Aliens
, must be incredibly prolific, or just super at dodging f.h.s and adult
Aliens.

What other evidence do we have in the bio-engineered vs. naturally evolved
debate ?

    re:.263
    
    Yes, potential hosts on a hypothetical home planet of the Aliens
    might need to have some sort of defense mechanisms to make it a
    bit difficult for the Aliens to impregnate them to keep the Aliens
    from overrunning the planet. An even scarier and much more likely
    alternative, though, is that there would be some natural predator
    that eats those Aliens for breakfast.
    
    Such a home world would make Harry Harrison's Pyrrhus (Deathworld)
    look like a day at the beach!
    
    --- jerry

            <<< UCOUNT::DISK$USER01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MOVIES.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< You be the critic >-
================================================================================
Note 409.148                         Aliens                           148 of 148
EAGLE1::BEST "R D Best, Systems architecture, I/O"    6 lines  11-AUG-1987 16:29
                     -< Alien poster available anywhere ? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know where 'Aliens' memorabilia can be purchased ?

Specifically, I'd love to get a poster showing an Alien (especially
the queen).  Are these available anywhere ?

[Cross posted in NAC::SF]

    
    It was called a Smart Gun
    

Path: muscat!decwrl!ucbvax!husc6!rutgers!daemon
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: ALIENS III and William Gibson
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 21 Sep 87 02:13:12 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Lines: 12
 
From: <HAXT2860%[email protected]>
 
    I just read in the WASHINGTON POST "Style" section that William
Gibson, author of NEUROMANCER, COUNT ZERO, and BURNING CHROME, has
just been signed to write the screenplay to ALIENS III. 
 
    Anyway, as a fan of Gibson's, I wonder if I'll be seeing any
flatlining, decks, and ice (intrusion counter measure electronics) in
this movie.  I know the hero jacks into the Aliens computers and do
battle with the Aliens ice...that I wouldn't mind seeing. Let's just
hope that Gibson doesn't pull o' Wilson.  

    :^)

    	Did you know that the word Acheron (the name of the planet on
    which the Aliens were discovered) is the name of the river in the
    Underworld of Greek mythology that was called the River of Distress.
    
    	Larry
    

    RE: .267
    
    The "news" is slightly dated. The latest report (from LOCUS) says
    that Gibson is 2/3rds done with the screenplay, is apparently pretty
    pleased with it so far - and won't say whether Ripley will be returning
    in # III. My bet is that she won't, `though I won't be surprised at all
    if a grown-up "Newt" will.
    
    Fred

    re:.269
    
    A friend of mine read in his cable_tv guide (in July, when ALIENS
    was the feature movie) that Weaver has tentatively agreed to the
    third movie, but insists that it will be her last. Presumably, she
    will want to at least approve the screenplay. She was hesitant
    about doing ALIENS until she read Cameron's script and realized
    what could be done with Ripley, and she had a lot of input as to
    how the character should be handled.
    
    --- jerry

re: .270

>				and she had a lot of input as to
>    how the character should be handled.

Wonder if she had any idea she'd get an Academy Award nomination
for her efforts??

    Jenette Goldstein appears in the guest-cast list for this
    Friday (9 October) night's episode of MAX HEADROOM. Only God
    (and maybe Max) knows how big her part is, but it'll be
    interesting to see her in something else.
    
    --- jerry

    Here's something interesting, but not very informative, from an
    article on/interview with William Gibson, who's written a script
    for ALIEN III (working title, I assume). It's from the November
    issue of HIGH TIMES (a magazine for cannabis fans).
    
    	Most recently [Gibson's] completed a screenplay
    	for ALIEN III, about which he's sworn to secrecy
    	by producers David Giler and Walter Hill. "There's
    	an implied world in the art direction of the first
    	two movies,' he says. 'You can deduce a lot about
    	what's happening back home. And in the third one,
    	it turns out that it's more complex than one would
    	have thought." Original director Ridley Scott and
    	designer H.R. Giger are reportedly being sought,
    	but nothing is yet confirmed.
    
    --- jerry

    
    re: .273
    
    Completely off the topic...
    
    Oh, no!  It's the Dread Pirate Roberts!  There'll be no survivors!
    
    :-)
    
    DFW

        .274: Indeed.  So completely off the topic, in fact, that I
        can't help wondering if you were thinking of William Goldman
        (who wrote The Princess Bride and invented the Dread Pirate
        Roberts) when .273 mentioned William Gibson?
        
        	/dave 

    
    re: .275
    
    No.  I was playfully yanking Jerry's chain.
    
    DFW

    re:.275
    
    He was commenting on my Personal Name.
    
    --- jerry

    
    Regarding issue of the ALIENS intelligence;
    
    Has anyone considered a scenario like Niven and Pournelle's "The
    Mote in God's Eye" where the race is actually made up of several
    different specialized forms? Maybe we've only seen "Warriors" up
    till now! 
    
    -Ray
    

    Or maybe they are *NOT* the "Warriors" of the race :-)

    --- jerry

        .276,.277: blush.  that'll teach me to forget personal names.
        
        	/dave
        
        :-)

                    -< Time flies like the wind >-
    
    On the subject of "when" is ALIEN/ALIENS set, the order given by
    Burke to the colonists on Acheron is dated 13 9 79 (The year is
    correct, but not sure about the day and month). Ripley was in
    hypersleep for 57 years so ALIEN occured in 22. This tallies with
    the statement made by one of the men who found the Narcissus at
    the beginning:
    
     "Have you seen a hypersleep capsule like that before?"
    
     "Looks like a late twenties model"
    
    (Above is paraphrased)
    
    The crew of the Nostromo were wearing 2076 tricentennial patches
    so a possible date for ALIEN is 2122, and for ALIENS 2179/2180.
    
    On the subject of travel times the following may be of interest.
    While on Gateway Ripley asks Burke to try to find her daughter.
    It turns out that Amanda Ripley died aged 66 two years before Ripley
    returns. At this point Ripley breaks down, but manages to mention
    that, before leaving on her last trip, she had promised not to miss
    her daughters eleventh birthday. Thus:
    
     Either Ripley promised her daughter that she wouldn't miss her
    daughter's eleventh birthday a year or more before her daughter
    would be eleven years old, or, the round trip from Earth to un-named
    destination and back would take a year or less.
    
    However, in ALIENS someone, I think it was Lambert, said they were
    10 months away from Earth. So if the planned journey was to take
    12 months or less, and on the return journey they found themselves
    10 months from Earth then Acheron is light years from human occupied
    space at the time of ALIEN.
    
    If this is the case then why aren't any of the crew in ALIEN upset
    that the duration of the trip has been doubled.
    
    This last bit has confused me.
    
    Clive S 
    
    I'm a thiry second bomb, I'm a thirty second bomb.
    Twenty-nine
    Twenty-eight....
    

    re:.282
    
    To be honest, I'm not sure I really care...
    
    Incidentally, since you kind of brought it up, the latest issue
    of STARLOG (December 1987) has an essay by James Cameron in which
    he answers points brought up by people that wrote letters of
    comment on ALIENS to STARLOG.
    
    Some interesting points are made resolving some complaints, like
    the fact that the reason the colony never picked up the beacon
    from the derelict is because some volcanic activity destroyed
    part of the derelict --- this is actually shown in footage that
    was left out of the final print. Which brings up what I really
    wanted to mention, which is that Cameron says of the unseen
    footage:
    
    	"These scenes, as well as four or five others, which
    	would certainly be of interest to fans, will be restored
    	for the ABC airings of the film and, *if* all goes well,
    	in a 'special edition' videocassette, running roughly 12
    	minutes longer than the release of 137 minutes. No con-
    	firmed release date is set for either of these, but stay
    	tuned."
    
    --- jerry

    I was relieved to learn from STARLOG interview that Jonesy
    would not the host for the Ailen in the 3rd movie (and so was the
    cat!)
    

    re:.283 re:.282
    
    I should perhaps point out that when I said "I'm not sure I
    really care", I wasn't referring to the whole "dating" issue,
    but to the inconsistency Clive pointed out at the end about
    the duration of Nostromo's trip.
    
    re:.284
    
    What Cameron said was, "By the way, it's not in the goddamed [sic]
    cat and it's not in Newt, either."  But, you may have noticed that
    he said nothing about Hicks. How much do you want to bet that half
    the STARLOG readers will take that omission as "evidence" that
    there *is* an embryo in Hicks?
    
    --- jerry

                       <... Oh Well ...>
    
    re:.283 re:.285
    
    You're probably right about the inconsistency regarding the duration
    of Nostromo's trip. It is, like all the other inconsistencies, minor
    and as such doesn't detract from the entertainment provided by the
    film. The bottom line is, or should be, whether or not the film is
    enjoyable to watch. I would rather see an entertaining SF film with
    bad science than a dull film with good science. Star Wars is a case
    in point.
    
    Thanks for the mail Jerry, I took your replies in the spirit in
    which they were intended.
    
    Clive S
    
    Beware the guided missal
    

    Just saw ALIENS last week , and something occured during the film
    that made me look for this note , and subsequently read it through
    (some of us were born stupid) .
    
    In some earlier replies , thought was given as to whether Bishop's,
    skin was in some way organic , and mentioned him being taken back
    in a life support pod , albeit in pieces . 
    When he was fooling around with the-knife-between-the-fingers game,
    he cut himself , and Ripely saw him licking the wound , which had
    bled . He didn't report for repairs (that we saw) , and he didn't
    milk to death . I , at that moment , assumed that the wound would
    heal itself . Ergo , organic skin . 
    
    Which didn't seem to fit with having a marine with scars . I mean
    plastic surgery must have come a long , long way .
    
    
    I was also a bit disappointed that the personnel weren't better
    prepared against being sprayed with acid . 
    Ripely knew about the creatures composition , and should therefore
    have recommended some better protection . I know how corrosive the
    acid was , but anything would have been better than what they had.
    
    
    Third and final gripe .
    
    Exactly how many marines/consultants etc , did they send out there.
    
    I would have thought a colony of 100+ men , women and children might
    have justified a bigger force .
    
    
    
    Apart from those , I thought the film was extremely good . Especially
    having to live up to ALIEN . It may not have been so scary as the
    original , but what it lacked in suspense , it certainly made up
    for in the 'blind panic' scenes . 
    
    The best/worst part for me was when the aliens were above them ,
    and one of the marines lifted a roof panel and saw them . Ugh !
    
    As for a sequel .
    
    Eventually , they decide to go back to Archenon , with the advantage
    of recently developed weapons/defenses that greatly reduce the killing
    power of the aliens . They discover that they are all dead , but
    don't know why . They also discover that the aliens *are* intelligent
    , and that the race they've dealt with so far have been 'programmed'
    for pure obedience (and survival) for military purposes . They somehow
    got lost from home , and have survived , as we have seen . 
    
    The intelligent aliens have been looking for them for some time
    , 'cos they know that , if discovered , a weakness might be found .
    
    They eventually locate Archenon , and mistakenly think that the
    humans *have* discovered a weakness , and so must be eliminated(sp) 
    
    The story developes into more of a thinking battle than a Rambo
    war , and the humans *do* find a weakness (possibly Newt) .
    
                                                               
    You can either carry the battle to the home planet , and blast them
    from the universe , or send them home with their tails between their
    claws , leaving room for Alien IV . 
    
    
    
    
    Workable ?
    
    
    

    Just read .87 back to myself .
    
    The sequel idea is not based on *anything* but imagination  .
    
    And in the penultimate paragraph , what I mean is Newt is the finder
    of the weakness , not the weakness itself .
    
    Apols
    
    John
    
    

    Gee, if I came to a world where I had left my soldier-things and
    found a crater with lots of residual radioactivity and no soldiers,
    I don't know that I'd assume that the crater-makers had found a
    weakness in my soldiers (unless I had built them to be H-bomb proof).
    
    Of course, if I was nasty enough to make soldier-things like those,
    I might go gunning for the crater-makers on general imperialistic
    principles.
    
    When Bishop got shredded by the Queen, we got a rather close, if
    fleeting, glimpse of his guts.  They looked like plastic piping
    and such.  So did the innards of Ashe in the first movie.  Between
    that and his ability to survive dismemberment, I would assume that
    Bishop is at least partly mechanical.  However, if you could give
    an android organic skin, it would be a good idea, since the skin
    would receive the most wear and tear and thus would be a good
    thing to make self-renewing.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

	Re: 357.87
    
    >    Which didn't seem to fit with having a marine with scars . I mean
    >    plastic surgery must have come a long , long way .

    	A Marine might very refuse the plastic surgery - the scars are
    a status symbol...
    

    Re .289
    
    The 'weakness' subplot would be there as a sort of tension builder.
    
    It could be a strategy weakness ( as in Khan's 2-dimensional battle
    plan ) , a greed weakness , a mother complex , or anything . 
    
    Heck , we've got past the offensive line , let's go for the QB !
    
    John
    

    RE .285
    
   > What Cameron said was, "By the way, it's not in the goddamed [sic]
   > cat and it's not in Newt, either."  But, you may have noticed that
   > he said nothing about Hicks. How much do you want to bet that half
   > the STARLOG readers will take that omission as "evidence" that
   > there *is* an embryo in Hicks?
    
    Would you care to explain when Hicks was infected??????????????????????
    
    Come on get real.
    
    Steve

        
        
        RE: .292
        
          It's possible that Hicks was infected after Ripley,
        Newt and Bishop got out of the lander. Before Bishop lost
        his lunch..
        
        						mike

    re:.292
    
    *I'm* not saying he got infected. In fact, I vehemently *deny*
    that he did. It's just that when this movie came out, there were
    <insert Carl Sagan voice> billions and billions of folks on the
    Usenet who were convinced that Hicks and/or Newt were infected.
    
    What I was saying was that the fact that Cameron didn't include
    Hicks in that sentence is bound to convince the Hicks_is_infected
    crowd that Hicks is indeed infected.
    
    --- jerry

    The February edition of LOCUS notes that William Gibson is on the
    second rewrite of the ALIENS III script - the movie is scheduled for 
    release sometime in 1989. It's noted in the short blurb that "Ridley"
    will only have a walk-on. However, Ridley is slated to be the main 
    character in ALIENS IV, which is already in the planning stages.
    
    Fred

    re:.295
    
    I assume it's supposed to be "Ripley"? Was the typo yours or theirs?
    
    --- jerry

    RE: .296
    
    Mine.
    
    Fredly :-)

    re:.297
    
    Well, since the supposed director is Ridley Scott, I wondered if
    the mix-up night have been theirs.
    
    A couple of things occurred to me. (1) I wonder if Ripley is only
    making a "cameo" appearance in this film is because Sigourney
    Weaver is unavailable for filming, and (2) I wonder if Gibson is
    "rewriting" the script in order to work around Ripley's absence.
    
    --- jerry

    
    The large Gun was called a Smart Gun,it did everything it's self,all
    the gunner had to do was point it.

       There is a small blooper in ALIENS in the fight scene with Ripley
   in the loader suit versus the Mother Alien.  When Ripley tries to
   throw the creature into the airlock and it grabs her for the ride, the
   loader falls headfirst onto the ship's deck, smashing the yellow light 
   on top.  When later she is laying on top of the alien at the bottom of
   the airlock, the light is intact.  

       Larry

    I checked my tape copy this afternoon, and it definitely is there,
    right at the tail end of the closing credits. I don't know how I
    missed this before.
    
    --- jerry

Date: 21 Apr 88 18:39:00 GMT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: VANG _The Military Form_

[...]
 
As far as the jewel like object, I suspect that its main purpose is to
allow the creation of a sequel. (Gosh! I've become cynical in my old age!)
Tangentially, I've been told that at the end of the movie ALIENS, when the
survivors are in their hibernaculi, the ship is dark, and the credits roll,
one can hear the sound of an alien-pod opening at the very end.

[...]
 
Peter J. Stucki
Mirror Systems
2067 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA, 02140
617-661-0777 extension 131
[email protected]	
UUCP: {mit-eddie, ihnp4, harvard!wjh12, cca, cbosg, seismo}!mirror!peter

    	Read Note 357.301.
    
    	Larry
    

    Like .302 said "What Jewel Like Object????????????????????????????????"
    
    Steve

    For Larry's sake I will be more specific. 
    
    The note Larry directed me to mentioned a jewel-like object.  Now
    I do not recall any such thing in the movie, though it's been a
    while since I last saw it.
    
    My question is, what was this jewel-like object?  When was it brought
    on the starship?  Did it have a significant role in the movie?
    
    Could someone post the entirety of the note that contains mention
    of it?
    
    				=ELB=

    The note in question also discussed the book VANG _The Milatary Form_.
    I believe that the jewel is mentioned in connection with that book.

    Dennis Murphy

    Now I'm *really* confused.
    
    Larry, slow down and smell the roses.  .301 *started* the question.
    It can hardly answer it!
    
                                   Roak

    
    		This is off the current flow of the topic, but
    	have any COMICS fans noticed the similarity between
    	the Aliens and Chris Claremont's "Brood" from the %^$^
    	X-Men? Excluding the intelligence factor, of course.
    
    					Sam

    re: Previous
    
    If you re-read .301, you'll see the "subject" line says that the
    original item from SF-LOVERS was about VANG, a book. The "jewel-
    like object" refers to the book. The item about ALIENS starts
    with "Tangentially...".
    
    Translation:
    
    In a discussion of VANG, someone asked about a jewel-like object.
    Someone (who wrote the note I quoted) responded that he thought
    that it was a hook for a sequel. Then, he went on to say that,
    similarly, there was this bit at the end of ALIENS that sounded
    to him like a similar sequel hook.
    
    If I thought it would have caused this much confusion, I would've
    left out the sentence about the jewel-like object.
    
    re:.309
    
    Many people have noticed it.
    
    --- jerry

    
    	As to what might keep the Alien's numbers in check on its
    home planet, it could be a number of things.  Maybe it has a
    predator which is too small to be a host.  Maybe the predator
    feeds on the Alien's eggs.  Maybe the eggs are vulnerable to
    cold ( nest was near the power plant in Aliens, and the nest in
    Alien was inside the ship where there was some climate control).
    The eggs might not be acidic and if there was some rat-like
    creature that reproduces like crazy and could dine on the eggs,
    then the race could be held in check.  Maybe, like someone replied,
    there are viruses or diseases that kill them.  Or it may be as simple
    as that the Aliens have a short life span, thus their great interest
    in reproduction.
    
    	Sleeping Aliens - remember that Newt says the Aliens usually
    come out at night.  Why?  Maybe they sleep during the day (nocturnal).
    They can't be that scared of anything to keep hidden in light.
    
    				Spunk
    

    
    
    
    	ALIENS III, the eggs are inside the Android.
    
    	

    	Where did you learn this, and it might be prudent in the future
    to put a spoiler warning at the top of your Note, so that those
    readers who want to be kept in suspense caqn stay that way.
    
    	Larry
    

	Sorry everyone... Didn't mean to be a spoiler.
	Hate when that happens.


	** Spoiler to follow ** Aliens III and Aliens IV.

	

	World SCIFI con at New Orleans this year, Don't ask me
	who the speaker was...someone else that as there maybe
	can fill the gaps in.


	What I remember in Summary.

	The Battleship spends a long time in space (Again)
	and is intercepted by the evil empire (Russia)

	The freeze chamber containing the Android is filled with face
	suckers.

	The Russian's take the face suckers and geneticly alter them to make 
	them "Better" war weapons.

	In Aliens II Sergoni Weaver is stays in a comma and doesn't
	come out for the movie.

	The Heroes are the Marine Soldier that she fell in love with and
	the android.

 	**** Aliens III ***

	Sergoni Weaver returns as Heroine and we go back to the
	Homeworld of the Aliens...Not where we first picked up the
	eggs but where they first came from!
	
	The Alien Homeworld.

    re .315:
    
    just in case these rumors are accurate, I'll comment below a form-feed.
    
    Aliens II sounds like a remake of Alien (the original)
    and Aliens III sounds like a remake of Aliens (the sequel)
    
    If they MUST make a third movie, skip Aliens II and go right to
    the Alien Homeworld.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!ucbvax!agate!bionet!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!leah!rpi!
Subject: Re: ALIENS III screenplay
Posted: 18 Feb 89 21:06:35 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
 
    [email protected] (Thomas Maddox) writes:

    Someone said he'd read that William Gibson was fired from the
ALIENS III screenplay.  At the time I almost replied but thought I
would check my source first: 

    Gibson has completed the work he had contracted to do for ALIENS
III, has been paid (quite nicely), and has declined to have anything
further to do with the film. 

    As it turns out, the director of Nightmare on Elm Street IV (Wes
Craven?), has been signed to direct ALIENS III.  Not Riddley Scott, as
was first intended. 

    Draw your own conclusions.  

    "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse." - Bruce Cockburn

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Path: decwrl!ucbvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cc.helsinki.fi!LEISTI
Subject: Re: Aliens III
Posted: 27 Feb 89 17:23:00 GMT
 
    Tom Maddox writes:
     
>As it turns out, the director of Nightmare on Elm Street IV (a Finn whose
>name I cannot remember, and I couldn't spell it if I could because I've
>only heard it) has been signed to direct Aliens III.  Not Riddley Scott, as
>was first intended.
 
    The director of Aliens III will indeed be a Finn; his pseudonym is
Renny Harlin.  I can't remember his real name at the moment.  He has
directed two Hollywood movies:  In addition to Elm Street 4, a couple
of years ago he came out with Arctic Heat.  I haven't seen either one,
but judging from the reviews, Arctic Heat was your typical
run-of-the-mill, senseless-violence-for-the-sake-of-senseless-violence
action film. The interesting thing about this guy is that apparently
for years, he tried to get funding for his films from the Finnish Film
Foundation (since the Finnish market is so small, filmmaking is
profitable in very few cases, so to keep the industry/art form alive,
the state hands out support through this organ), but his scripts were
systematically rejected as "too commercial".  Well, now he's working
in a country where that is not a major problem.... :-) 
 
Teemu Leisti
Helsinki U, Finland
Internet:    [email protected]
Bitnet/EARN: leisti@finuh

   "This cat's on an intergalactic cruise in his office?!" - Zaphod Beeblebrox 

ALIENS III?! Where's Aliens II? Have I missed it?

    	ALIENS II is just ALIENS (the subject of this Topic).  The
    producers were smart enough not to give the 1986 sequel to the 1979
    film ALIEN (singular) a Roman numeral after its title, like so many
    other sequel titles.
    
    	ALIENS III is the working title for the second ALIEN sequel,
    but hopefully they will come up with a title which will eliminate
    the Roman numeral.
    
    	Larry
    

No, Alien II is Aliens, and this film we're talking about should be Aliens 
II or Alien III right?

Yours confused,
Adrian.

    I've always heard the working title of this film as ALIEN III,
    never ALIENS III.
    
    --- jerry

>    I've always heard the working title of this film as ALIEN III,
>    never ALIENS III.
    
That kind of gives the plot away of the next film.  Dealing with one
Alien - probably a stowaway on the ship.

Mike_L

    re:.323
    
    That's a mighty leap to a conclusion. It also may be a rather
    simplistic reduction of the plot. If you've ever read anything
    by the scriptwriter William Gibson (NEUROMANCER, BURNING CHROME,
    COUNT ZERO, MONA LISA OVERDRIVE), you'll know that the script
    will *not* be as simple as "one Alien stowing away on a ship".
    
    Secondly, it's also been said that "ALIEN III" is the *working*
    title for the film, that is what they are calling it until they
    come up with a more suitable title.
    
    --- jerry

re: .324
I suppose they could have called the *working* title anything.  However,
they called it ALIEN III (singular), as it was in the original movie.
I haven't heard any spoilers about the new movie, so we can only *guess*
what it may be about.

Mike_L

    According to TV GUIDE, the network broadcast of ALIENS next
    Tuesday night is going to include some "never before seen"
    footage. I'm pretty sure that at least part of that footage
    will be of Newt's parents finding the derelict and the father
    "acquiring" a face-hugger (I know that this scene was filmed,
    though left out of the final print).
    
    --- jerry

    
    
    Same thing happened with Superman II, although the footage was tiny
    tiny.
                       
    Now if the TV would just show Blade runner. ;)
    
    

    re:.327
    
    Actually, they do that with quite a few movies. SUPERMAN (I),
    STAR TREK I & II (though the expanded version of I was later
    issued on videotape/disc, it was originally the "tv version"),
    and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, in its tv version was
    a "Venn union" of the original version and "Special Edition".
    
    Normally, I wouldn't call attention to expanded tv versions, but
    I entered the note here because as is obvious from the amount of
    replies, this is a popular film, and I figured people would want
    to know about it.
    
    --- jerry

    	According to TV GUIDE, there will be eight minutes of scenes
    in this CBS presentation tonight at 8 pm EDT that was not shown
    in the original theatrical release.
    
    	Larry
    

    ...certainly not on network television. :-)
    
    Actually, there was some footage cut, but very minor -- basically,
    scenes with profanity where they obviously felt that it was easier
    to cut the scene than edit the dialog, such as when Ripley refers
    to Jones as "You little $#!+head." The net result made this version
    about 5 minutes longer than the original.
    
    I was actually quite surprised that they pretty much left all of
    the violence intact. The edit of the "harsh" language was to be
    expected, but there were times when it made no sense, such as
    deleting "ass" a couple of times, while leaving it in elsewhere
    (not to mention the fact that it's been used on network tv shows
    before). The edits were, for the most part, skillfully done.
    
    Much to my surprise, the one scene I expected to be added was *not*
    in this version. The bulk of the added footage was in four relatively
    significant places:
    
    (1) Burke meets Ripley in a "holodeck" area and gives her the results
    of his search for her daughter. This later leads into...
    
    (2) ... an expanded conversation between Ripley and Newt when the
    former is putting the latter to bed, which includes Ripley telling
    Newt about having had a daughter.
    
    (3) Just before Ripley descends into the Alien nest, her relationship
    with Hicks takes on a first name basis. This was especially amusing
    given that the write-up in TV GUIDE mentions that we "never find
    out if [Ripley] has a first name".
    
    (4) There was some fairly extensive footage involving "robot" sentries
    (basically computer-driven machine guns) being set up as a first-line
    defense for the "last stand".
    
    Seeing this film with the extra footage is very educational in that
    it shows you just what an editor can do. In instances (2) and (4)
    above, the added film and dialogue weave in and out of footage
    already in place, and it's simply amazing how this extra stuff could
    be removed and yet leave the entire scene coherent.
    
    As added footage goes, this falls between that of STAR TREK I and
    SUPERMAN I. It's not nearly as significant an addition to ALIENS
    as the added footage for ST I was to that film, but it still
    provided much more enhancement (and less getting-in-the-way) than
    the extra footage in SUPERMAN. I would love to see this expanded
    version released on videodisc.
    
    --- jerry

    For my curiosity, what where the first names of Ripley and Hicks?
    
    				=ELB=

    
    Re: .331
    
    Ellen Ripley and Dwayne Hicks.
    
    Linda
        

       I got home late and only caught the last hour, wish I'd seen the
       whole movie again. It didn't hit me so hard the first time I saw
       this movie but last night the final battle seemed the ultimate
       species armageddon. Two females fighting for their young. liesl

    buy the vtape, Liesl.  I did.

    The latest issue of LOCUS reports that William Gibson has declined
    to write a new draft script for ALIEN III and will apparently have no 
    further connection with the project. The report notes that Gibson was
    originally told to write a script "with Ridley Scott in mind
    as the director." However, Scott was not hired to direct the movie
    and apparently the actual director found Gibson's original script
    unacceptable (the report names the director and new screenwriter.
    If I remember to bring LOCUS in, I'll post a note).
    
    Gibson is reportedly deeply involved in the production of two other
    movies based on short stories that he wrote.
    
    Fred

    One script is for "NEW ROSE HOTEL" from BURNING CHROME.
    

I just read that!  I love the part where he describes a hot hi-tech corporation
as being "all Edge" .

Wook

From: [email protected] (Richard Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Aliens III?
Date: 25 Sep 89 14:59:05 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
 
    Our cable TV service sends out a monthly magazine of all the
movies for the coming month.  Their October issue has a real short
interview with Sigourney Weaver (because they're showing "Gorillas In
The Mists").  Anyway, she's asked about any more Aliens pictures. 
Her reply: 
 
    I don't think so.  We have had two great directors for the Alien
    projects.  There was a good idea for a third one, but I find them
    difficult and draining.  A script was commissioned, and I hear they
    were disappointed in it, but I don't think they are going to give up.
    Unless there were a really magician director involved, I can't
    really see the reason to do it.  Certainly not to see me stripping
    down to my underwear again.
 
    There's no mention of when the interview was done.  An Aliens
triology would be nice, but I can certainly see her point that if
it's not going to be done with the same care as the first two, let's
not do it.  (Look what happened with the Omen series.) 
 
Richard Travsky            Bitnet:   RTRAVSKY @ UWYO
Computer Services          Internet: RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming

Last night on MTV they showed a list of all the Sequel movies coming out this
summer.  Again there are going to be quit a few.  The one that supprised me the
most was "ALIENS III".

Has anyone heard anything else.  They gave no specifices on MTV just a list.

Steve

    Don't believe them. ALIENS III isn't even close to being in
    pre-production yet.
    
    --- jerry

    Oh, *DRAT!!*, just when you had me going.

 
    
                <<< ZENDIA::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]MOVIES.NOTE;1 >>>
                             -< You be the critic >-
================================================================================
Note 2706.0  UPCOMING MOVIES...THOUGHT IT MIGHT INTEREST SOME...from  No replies
MPGS::LAVNER "Top Gun"                               71 lines  15-MAR-1990 14:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article        32068
Path: arkham.enet.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!uoft02!cscon134
From: [email protected] (John Heiden UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO COMPUTER CONSULTANT)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Subject: MOVIE NEWS (with a fix)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 9 Mar 90 17:37:34 GMT
Lines: 56
 
This file contains information relating to motion picture production
information.  All information contained within is believed to be completely
correct as of 3-8-90.  (Inaccuracies do ocassionally occur though.)
 
DICK TRACY  (Warren Beatty, Madonna)         [in post-production for June 15'90]
ROLLER COASTER RABBIT (Roger Rabbit short)   [in post-production]
THREE MEN AND A LITTLE LADY                  [in filming in APR '90]
GOOD MORNING CHICAGO  [sequel to GMV]        [in pre-production]
ERNEST GOES TO JAIL                          [finished, release APR '90]
WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT II                   [in planning]
    computer graphics started
BACK TO THE FUTURE III                       [release May 24 1990]
GREMLINS II       (Director Dante)           [in post-production for summer '90]
THE RESCUERS DOWN UNDER                      [in production for Nov. '90]
PRINCE AND THE PAUPER (Mickey Mouse, Goofy, Donald Duck, Pluto)
      (Release with RESCUERS DOWN UNDER)     [release Nov. '90]
RUNNING SCARED II                            [in planning stage]
SPACEBALLS III: THE SEARCH FOR SPACEBALLS II [planning stage]
ROCKY V      (Stallone)                      [post-production, release Nov'90]
THE EXORCIST 1990 (George C. Scott)          [in post-production for summer '90]
JAMES BOND #17                               [in planning stage]
BATMAN II                                    [in pre-production stage]
STAR TREK VI                                 [in pre-production]
    computer graphics started - some f/x started
DIE HARDER  (Bruce Willis)                   [in production/release June 29 '90]
ANOTHER 48 HOURS (Eddie Murphy, Nick Nolte)  [in production for July 4 1990]
ALIENS III  (Sigourney Weaver)               [filiming in fall 1990]
TOTAL RECALL (Arnold Schwarzenegger)         [in post-production]
MERMAIDS  (Cher, Bob Hoskins, Winona Ryder)  [in post-production]
THE GODFATHER PART III                       [in production/fall release]
THE GREEN LANTERN  (producer Joel Silver)    [in pre-production]
SERGEANT ROCK  (Star Schwarzenegger)	     [in pre-production]
ROBOCOP II (Peter Weller, Nancy Allen)       [in post-production for June 22'90]
QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER (Tom Selleck)             [in post-production for summer '90]
HIGHLANDER II:THE QUICKENING  (Sean Connery) [in production for late summer '90]
NEVER ENDING STORY II                        [in post-production]
PREDATOR II                                  [in pre-production filming Apr '90]
YOUNG GUNS II                                [in pre-production]
TALES FROM THE DARKSIDE: THE MOVIE           [release APR 1990]
TEXASVILLE (sequel to LAST PICTURE SHOW)     [in post-production]
AIR AMERICA (Mel Gibson)                     [post-production,late summer '90]
CADILLAC MAN (Robin Williams, Tim Robbins-   [finished, release May 25 1990]
THE TERMINATOR II (Schwarzenegger)           [filming mid fall 1990]
    (Budget of about $60-million, DIRECTOR JAMES CAMERON)
F/X II  (Bryan Brown, Brian Dennehy)         [filming Apr (16?) 1990]
ARACHNIPHOBIA  (producer Spielberg)          [release June 24]
THE DOORS (Val Kilmer, dir Stone)            [filming Apr 1990]
 
(This list will be updated on a semi-regular basis.)
John


Some additional updates:

TOTAL RECALL: Directed by Paul Verhoeven (Dir of ROBOCOP)
PREDATOR II:  Stars Danny Glover
ARACHNIPHOBIA: This movie about spiders is supposed to be ultra creepy....
SGT ROCK: I believe Arnold is Exec Prod. I thought Bruce Willis was to
          do the title roll.... Maybe there was a change....


Bob

    re:.342
    
    Enough of that person's "news" has been in error that I'm not
    inclined to believe anything he lists unless confirmed from another
    source. I suspect that he's getting his information from various
    entertainment magazines.
    
    --- jerry

    
    
    		I heard that Sigourney Weaver is several months 
    pregnant,so i dought she will be filming Aliens 3 (uuuuggh-
    please call it anything but aliens 3)in the fall.
    						Hopefully it will
    be made to the high standards of the first two movies wih a good
    story line,will be over two hours long,and not have twenty minutes
    cut from it so that cinemas can show it an extra time each day,as
    with A l i e n s(the special edition of Aliens including the extra
    twenty minutes is available on video in britain on April the 12th
    for �9.99($15)).                            
                   
    			***vince***

    Re:  the name Aliens 3
    
    Well, since the first was ALIEN, and the second was ALIENS, maybe the
    third will be ALIENSES.
    
    (Oh, God.  Forgive me!)
    
    K.C.

	re .344

	I have a Aliens VHS cassette that I buy from England
	for about 2 years ago. And it have a 131 minutes runtime.
	Is this the short or long version?


			Anders

Re: 346.

You have the original cinema version: the `directors version' has not yet
been released, or possible has been in the last few weeks.

    Is the long ("director's"?) version out in the US, yet?  Is there
    a way to tell them apart (before viewing)?

    -- mikeK

    re:.348
    
    Not as of a week ago. The only way to tell them apart (other than
    the home video company plastering "New Improved Longer Special
    Edition With Extra Footage" across the video) is the running time.
    The original release was 137 minutes long.
    
    --- jerry

    I've just spent almost a whole shift reading the 349 notes and have
    decided mention something which always annoy's me when I watch the
    movie. It's when Hudson and Vasques are in the corridor just before the
    final stand. One of the two (i'm not sure which) is looking at their
    motion tracker when they start picking up multiple signals. The shot
    then switches to their face but the flashing of the motion tracker on
    their face is out of sync with the bleeping of the signal.
    
    As for the subject of sequal's. I hope they make as many of them as
    possible, It is us (by watching the film) that give a film company the
    incentive to produce a sequal. If it's rubbish then who cares !!! It
    won't take away the fact that there were two 'great' movies. This type
    of movie has the potential for sequals unlike movies like 'Die Hard'
    which ,as far as story-line is concerned, was a one-off.
    
    						George
     
                                                                        

    Much later............
    
    Hmm. I'm not sure that operating at an instinctive level (preserving
    the species) precludes being intelligent. They are separate and
    distinct attributes. You could argue that the first action that
    an  intelligent species would carry out given a new/fresh supply of food
    is to ensure its race survival by reproducing. 
    
    In this film who is to say that reproduction is not a *voluntary*
    action? 
    
    With ref. to intelligence v. instinct for survival, cases of people
    mating during catastrophes/final moments are not unknown. What's
    intelligent about that ? 
    
    
    
    Martin

><<< Note 357.351 by ANNECY::HUMAN "When you've been around for as long as me,my boy...." >>>
>                       -< intelligence versus instinct >-
>
>    Much later............

    Please indicate which notes you are responding to, especially if they are
    far back in the discussion.

    Reproduction in humans is more variable and directed, but not entirely
    voluntary.  Celebacy is possible, but quite difficult, right?

    ALIENS are one of the better attempts to create a creature which is
    truly alien, not just a wrinklesuit on a stuntman (as in Star Trek).
    So we get funny-looking insects instead of funny-looking people.
    (Giant cockroaches!)

    Intelligent insects?  Well, they act a lot like regular insects are supposed
    to, but that doesn't relly prove anything.  I think the bottom line is that
    intelligence implies ability to learn, reason, and communicate.  Many
    vertebrate animals can learn; the higher mammals can learn a lot.  Wolves,
    elephants, dolphins, primates (probably many others) have versatile means
    of communication among their species.  (Bees and other insects, as well as
    birds and many other animals can communicate, but in a rather rigid,
    instinctive fashion.  The ones I listed learn communication and devlope it
    in different ways.  Primates use tools.  Cetaceans (dolphins) are believed
    to be highly intelligent, but it is difficult to apply the same criteria to 
    aquatic creatures.  All intelligent mammals require extensive nurture, often
    live parts or all of their lives in cooperative groups, require "teaching"
    in order to learn what they need to survive (especially in these groups).
    Extensive learning, versatile communication, individual adaptability, use
    of tools are traits which we use to recognize sentience in humans and
    possibly dolphins and higher primates.  Why not apply these tests to aliens.

    The aliens seem to behave the same when they grow alone or in a hive.  This
    behavior seems to be conducive to group efforts, but they simply function in
    parallel -- they don't cooperate.  They don't use tools, but their bodies
    provide good equipment, so they may have not use for tools.  They don't have
    time to learn from observation (grow too fast) and they don't seem to
    communicate.  A trap could easily be designed for them if the right
    equipment was provided and their physical abilities were not underestimated.

    So I don't think there is evidence from the movies to support the
    intelligence hypothesis.

>    Hmm. I'm not sure that operating at an instinctive level (preserving
>    the species) precludes being intelligent. They are separate and
>    distinct attributes. You could argue that the first action that
>    an  intelligent species would carry out given a new/fresh supply of food
>    is to ensure its race survival by reproducing. 

    Of course.  Even human beings operate largely on instinct.
    
>    In this film who is to say that reproduction is not a *voluntary*
>    action? 

    Exactly.  Who is to say.  There is no evidence, and even if the hive
    abstained under certain conditions, that could be instinctive, too.
    In fact, reproductve behavior is one of the characteristics least
    influenced by intelligence in those species that have it, and is
    therefore a poor indication of intelligence or sentience.
    
>    With ref. to intelligence v. instinct for survival, cases of people
>    mating during catastrophes/final moments are not unknown. What's
>    intelligent about that ?

    "Reproductive behavior" seems to fulfill other functions besides propogation
    in humans (and a few other species).  No evidence of this in the aliens, but
    again, it's not an indication of intelligence.

    Warning:  Heavy (and heavily academic) rambling folows

    PROPELLER ON

    A point about intelligence.  Ego is in some ways a projection of instinctive
    domination behavior over types of behavior that are otherwise directed by
    our higher brain centers.  I like my code better than yours, even though
    they both work, pass performance specs, are readable and maintainable.
    Thus we look upon ourselves as a "higher" species.  Attempting to get
    around this (and thereby satisfy my ego by presenting a "better" hypothesis)
    (and thereby satisfy my ego by claiming to look at my behavior objectively),
    intelligence may not be all that conducive to survival.  Every species,
    every trait, is a natural experiment in survivability.  Any such experiment
    may be cancelled by outside influence, but our comet hasn't hit yet, and our
    competition isn't all that stiff outside our own species.

    Getting to the point, we don't know that the big brain experiment has ever
    been tried successfully for very long.  Larson (The Far Side) suggests that
    the dinosaurs tried it, but we have not evidence.  If the experiment was
    short-lived (and if they didn't lay down a lot of asphalt), there may not
    have been enough evidence to survive this long.  Of all the (dumb) dinosaurs
    that lived during a period of hundreds of millions of years, we have how
    many skeletons and how many eggs?  Again, without the plastic, how many
    human skeletons, or sophisticated devices from today do you expect to exist
    a hundred million years from now.  Maybe the smart dinos weren't into
    manufacturing.  They were big enough and produced sufficient variety.  They
    died out so suddenly.  Nothing over how many inches in size survived?  Do
    we have any evidence of what they were like in their last ten thousand
    years?  There last half million?  (Any paleogeologists or paleohobbyists
    out there?)

    Attempting once again to get to the point, intelligence seems to occur
    rarely and may not be all that great a survival trait.  It's also very
    frustrating.  But let's face it folks, intelligence can sometimes be
    loads of fun.  Let's dance 'till we nuke.

    PROPELLER OFF

    Oh, yeah, so we get trounced by the big insects.  They don't seem to think,
    yet their (fairly simple) instincts and body armor let them stomp all over
    us.  So if the movie had any real point, that may be it.  Intelligence is
    not the only game in town.  Maybe not the best game.  Half the time the
    aliens get the drop on us because they *don't* have complex responses.  They
    don't stop to think.  But Sigourney Weaver keeps winning because she thinks
    quick, fights dirty, and knows how to work the machinery that we built.  She
    adapts.  She ovecomes.  But most of all she has macho Clint Eastwood never
    dreamed about.  Draw your own conclusions.

    It's late.  G'night.

    +{:-) == propellerhead

    In the ALIENS comic book, the aliens are not necessarily intelligent.
    But they are telepathic.

    Spoiler warning.



    They destroy the Earth.  Military/industrialist badguys retreat to
    outpost planet, and continues experiments to control aliens as weapons
    (now for use against aliens on Earth).  Even teaches the queen to keep
    her kids from killing people.  Put momma roach in cage (plexiglass).
    Put soldier roach in next cage.  Put soldier roach fodder in same cage.
    Roach kills soldier fodder.  Apply blowtorch to soldier roach.  After a
    few repeats, momma roach gets the point.  Tells kids (telepathically) not
    to eat.  (This implies limited intelligence, but not necessarily sentience,
    to all you propellerheads out there.)  Soldier fodder walks out of test tube
    in one piece.  Soldier roach also gets hauled away in one piece.

    Surprisingly enough, roach fodders eventually mutiny.

    Not so surprising, roaches escape and suddenly forget all training.  (This
    does imply intelligence and possibly sentience).  But it occurs late in
    the story, and is not central enough (or consistent enough) with the rest
    of alien behavior to take it that seriously as a point of the story.

    Anybody out there read the comic book.  Wudju tink?

    -- mikeK

    Mean Green Machines for post-infant humans -- they aren't teenage, they
    aren't ninjas, they aren't turtles, and they don't eat pizza.

    re: 352
    
    It seems that the queen alien shows something like inteligence in
    Aliens. When Weaver holds her torch pointed towards the eggs the queen
    calls off the aliens that are about to attack. They are faced with a
    hostage crisis, and back down. Queenie also uses an elevator, so they
    can use tools when the want to. But why would they want to most of the
    time? They don't need tools for shelter, they move into their victims'
    homes and/or sectrete their resinous goo to make things homey. They
    sure don't need tools to get food, though I'm not sure they eat once
    they leave their hosts (they seemed to use all of the colonists for
    incubators). Maybe they would like to have tools to build VCRs and 
    recreational vehicles, but then again... they seem to be pretty much
    all set without tools. I read once that People think themselves to be
    the smartest beings on Earth because Dolphins just eat fish and play in
    the water all day, and Dolphins think themselves to be the smartest
    beings for exactly the same reasons.
    
    I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that intelligence was not
    such a great survival skill. It seems to have done man all right. For a
    long long time it was the only thing we had going for us in a pretty
    competitive world.
    
    Cheers!
    
    Charlie

>  <<< Note 357.354 by VIRGO::CRUTCHFIELD "I don't want 'em all, just yours" >>>
>                -< Aliens ain't so dum as you thinks they is. >-
>
>    re: 352
>    
>    It seems that the queen alien shows something like inteligence in
>    Aliens. When Weaver holds her torch pointed towards the eggs the queen
>    calls off the aliens that are about to attack. They are faced with a
>    hostage crisis, and back down.

    Sound smart to me.  I forgot about that scene.  But wasn't that Ripley?

>    Queenie also uses an elevator, so they can use tools when the want to.

    Could have been an accident, but yes, this seems pretty smart.

>    But why would they want to most of the
>    time? They don't need tools for shelter, they move into their victims'
>    homes and/or sectrete their resinous goo to make things homey. They
>    sure don't need tools to get food, though I'm not sure they eat once
>    they leave their hosts (they seemed to use all of the colonists for
>    incubators).

    They do a lot of gut-sucking when they don't need the live bodies for
    incubators.  That seems like eating to me.  They seemed to be in hibernation
    when the marines arrived, possibly because they needed all the available
    "food" for incubation.

>    Maybe they would like to have tools to build VCRs and recreational vehicles
>    but then again... they seem to be pretty much all set without tools.

    But as far as not needing tools -- that's one of the problems.  Without a
    need, it is difficult to postulate a mechanism whereby they evolved
    intelligence.  Usually that occurs when developing tools improves the
    chances that an individual of the species will survive.  These guys
    do just as well without.  Of course we don't know that much about their
    evolution.  Then again, I think the movie had them do whatever created
    the best dramatic effect, which was better than scientific consistency.

>    I read once that People think themselves to be
>    the smartest beings on Earth because Dolphins just eat fish and play in
>    the water all day, and Dolphins think themselves to be the smartest
>    beings for exactly the same reasons.

    Bingo!

>    I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that intelligence was not
>    such a great survival skill. It seems to have done man all right. For a
>    long long time it was the only thing we had going for us in a pretty
>    competitive world.

    Not a long time.  In the history of the world, we've been thinking for
    about a microsecond, and there is no evidence (from previous big-brained
    species) to indicate that we are going to get another microsecond.

    In some ways, we've been doing pretty well.  In others ways, we are making
    a pretty big mess of things.  I don't mean making the world unpleasant, or
    killing of other species from an ethical viewpoint.  I mean we are rapidly
    changing our environment to serve very short-term needs, and not considering
    the long term affects on our own survivability.  I'm talking thousands of
    years, not next decade.  Also, we have difficulty being objective about
    this (needless to say).  Our intelligence has given us a great advantage
    over other vertebrate species, but we are our own competition, now.  We
    are rapidly changing our environment as a result of this trait which we
    evolved in order to compete with faster, stronger species which no longer
    threaten us.

    However, if we do survive another thousand years, we have the best chance
    of surviving when the Sun explodes or when the asteroid strikes Home.

    -- mikeK

      >>Queenie also uses an elevator, so they can use tools when the want to.

      >Could have been an accident, but yes, this seems pretty smart.

      Queenie did not operate the elevator. Ripley called both elevators and
      if you remember the elevators automatically return to the top or home
      floor. 

      Queenie simply went along for the ride.

      Steve

    re: .355
    
    It was Ripley, I just couldn't think of how to spell it, so I used the
    actress's name.
    
    On the elevator... It would be pretty lucky for her to get into the
    elevator, hit the right button to go up, and hit the right button to
    stop on the right floor. Admittedly, the real reason for this was to
    make the plot/drama work, but as the movie makers do this they create
    the species, just as much as when they said that it had acid for blood
    and gestated in a human host.
    
    Intelligence certainly could evolve without special need for it. As I
    understand Darwin's theory, ALL evolutionary changes come out of chance
    mutation (though each change must build on those that came before). The
    giraffe did not eveolve a long neck so that it could reach high leaves.
    Proto-giraffes that happened to have longer necks were better able to
    feed themselves, and thus lived longer, more productive lives. It seems
    to me that in any competitive environment, the smarter animals will
    out-survive their less brainy brethren, have more young, and begin to
    dominate the gene pool. An additional argument comes from the Dolphin
    again, surely they have no more need for intelligence than would a cod,
    or an alien. And yet they are supposed to be quite bright.
    
    Cheers!
    
    Charlie

    re: .356
    
    > (paraphrase)If you remember Ripley called both elevators and they
    return to the top or home floor.
    
    I do remember that Ripley called both, but how do we know that the
    elevators always return to their home floors, or that the level where
    she met Bishop was the home floor. Did she meet him at the top? I don't
    recall for sure, but I think there was more shaft upwards of that
    level.
    
    Cheers!
    
    Charlie

    re .357, Dolphin intelligence a useless luxury?
    
    You need a _lot_ of processing power to use sonar at the level that
    dolphins etc. use it.  Also much of primate intelligence (and
    presumably cetacean intelligence) is there for handling social
    problems common to any social animal (e.g. being nice to higher
    ranking fellows without offending, picking the right side of issues,
    getting along with equals...).  Other social animals which are 
    "smarter" than their more solitary genetic relatives are crows
    and wolves.
    
    I think the speculation that the Aliens were designed is the most
    persuasive.
    				-John Bishop

>    I think the speculation that the Aliens were designed is the most
>    persuasive.

    Which reply(s) was this in?  Was it a Frakenstein design which destroyed
    its creators?  Otherwise, I like the response about dolphin intelligence.

    If the creator's make the Aliens consistenly smart, then they have created
    a smart species.  If they make them sometimes smart and sometimes dumb then
    they have created an inconsistency, and we are left to either rationalize it
    or say something like "I like the consistent picture of a mean, lean killing
    machine, and the "smart" stuff was an intentional mistake which made the
    movie scarrier, but for which I could not suspend my disbelief.  "The
    elevator was automatic" is a rationalization which holds up that disbelief
    much better than "the Queen was smart".  "Queenie pushed the right buttons
    by accident" was a (my) stupid idea.  This drops my disbelief like a sack
    of potatoes.  Thud!

    The Aliens are so well designed that only momma nature (or the writer)
    could do it.  I don't think either of them would have messed up such a
    perfect creation with a big brain.  Big brains were designed by a committee.
    Not that I don't enjoy mine.  I just think the jury is still out as to how
    long these big brains will continue to propogate themselves, and how much
    of the rest of evolution's better experiments they will take down when and
    if they go.  Not that I hope be around afterwards to mourn.

    Dolphins may have been smart to start with, and developed more smarts in
    order to process sonar, get along, have fun.  But why would Dolphins require
    big brains just to survive.  (This is a question for a cetologist or student
    who can put some accepted theory here.)  Do their more evolved, warm-blooded
    metabolisms require a more specialized diet than, say, a shark?  Were they
    unable to develope olfactory and barometric senses like fish, so that they
    required a sophisticated substitute (sonar)?  Why did only the really big
    aquatic mammals evolve plankton-processing gastrics?

    My guess would be that dolphins required a sophisticated social structure
    and sophisticated senses in order to cooperate in ways necessary for the
    survival of limited numbers of offspring with long periods of internal
    gestation and long periods of rearing before they can reproduce in turn.
    When the dolphins took to the seas, I imagine that evolution had already
    committed them to birthing live offspring and possibly already given them
    a start at a social structure, and their competition was laying thousands
    of eggs at a shot.  And perhaps there is a minimum size and minimum oral
    cross-section for living on one-celled organisms.  You need teeth and
    nose-cones for defense if you're shark-size, but if you're really big,
    those critters just leave you alone and you can make do with balleen
    sieves for digestion.

    Back to the Aliens.  Right, evolution does not postulate that mutations
    occur because they are useful, but useful mutations will survive and be
    propogated.  However, the mutations often occur gradually.  This is
    especially true for variations in physical dimensions.  You didn't just
    get a lucky long-necked giraffe one fine spring morning in the nursery
    and all the other mommy giraffes said "Oh, how cute, we want our kids
    to breed with that one."  I think the hypothesis is that the taller
    giraffes tended to eat better than the short folks, and tended to get
    all the really pretty mates (maybe the tall mates), and after a few
    droughts in which only the best fed survived, there were a lot more
    taller giraffes, and after a few thousand years of this there were
    a lot taller giraffes, or something like this.

    Also, I think there is a theory that given enough time, any mutation
    you can think of will occur, and the useful ones will survive, so that
    in one sense mutations deveope *because* they are useful.  Of course
    this needs to be qualified.  Some mutations must be more physically
    likely than others.  Perhaps these are the ones "you can think of"
    because they are the ones we see most often in the wide, wide world.
    (That's good enough for an amateur like me.)  Also, "enough time"
    depends on the adaptability (same as mutability?) of a species.
    That in turn depends on the environment (background radiation levels,
    concentration of certain chemicals in the food and water, and the
    environment of the reproductive cells (what was that word?) and the
    genetic material in those cells in the organism.

    (For example, you could nuke the environment of Niven's Bandersnatchi
    with neutron warheads and for all that their reproductive chromosones
    might as well have lead shielding.)

    Back to the Aliens, for real this time.  If you got a real smart Alien
    all of a sudden, that could dominate it's hive or go start its own hive,
    maybe it would have had a chance, but I doubt it.  Any deviation like
    that would have been detrimental to the hive.  The soldier Aliens can
    work together because they all act the same.  At least that's the way
    way it is with the real hive species from which the ideas for the Aliens
    were obtained.  Now if you get a smart queen, that is different.  And
    if a queen can control the soldiers, then she might hold them from attacking
    a foe which threatened her eggs.

    How much intelligence would be necessary to realise that Siggy Weaver was
    going to torch the kids if the soldiers attacked?  That is the only thing
    I can think of which can't be eplained without intelligence.  Once that
    conclusion is reached, instinct can account for holding back the attack.
    But you need to reason to correlate the threat to the eggs with the
    threat to Ripley by the soldiers.  Or you have to be very quick with
    Pavlovian-type learning by association.  "Step forward, feel heat, watch
    precious burn.  Step backward to avoid heat, no more precious burning.
    Step forward again, feel heat, watch more precious burn.  Step backward
    and don't need to try it again to see what will happen."

    They still have to be stupid enough not to realise that if they just all
    rush her, they take the least risk and the least losses.

    I would say that nothing occured which can't be explained away without
    more intelligence than you need to make a dog salivate at the sound of
    the bell.  I vote no for sentient cockroaches.

    Besides, the momma roach looked like a bone-head to me.  With that
    triceratops-like decorative crest, I don't know where she had any
    room for the greystuff.  She was just an egg-laying machine with
    heavy armor.  Looks like she was designed so that if you cut off
    her head, she'd still keep cranking 'em out.

    By the way, did the Aliens use their tail-bone as a whip-knife
    at any other time besides when queenie gutted the android?  Did
    we ever seen a soldier roach use the tail-bone maneuver?  I think
    the aliens exhibit three kinds of behavior with respect to other
    species:

    1)	If it doesn't fight (seriously, I mean) and there are any known eggs,
	then grab it and stick it's head in an egg, then glue it down.

    2)	If it fights seriously, or if there aren't any eggs to feed, then it's
	chow time -- stick out your jaw-box and gut-suck the warm and tasty.

    3)	If it is a real threat, or if your belly's full, then don't waste
	time shooting the jaw-box, just whip out that tail-knife and slice
	and dice.

    Ideas about the queen's unique physiology:  The soldiers have this
    long head-tube which is probably used to house a long jaw-box and as
    storage for (pre-digested) food.  Certainly doesn't waste payload
    capacity with indigestible greystuff.  But queenie just has this
    decorative crest for a head-bone.  Obviously she isn't expected to
    scavange her own food, and so she has a truncated jaw-box.  Not as
    powerful, doesn't reach very far.  Maybe it is designed to connect
    to an soldier's extended jawbox to receive the stored foodstuff
    from the soldiers head-tube?  Doesn't need a storage compartment;
    any nutrients go right into the next egg.

    Queenie seems to have a much more developed tail-bone.  Probably reaches
    all around the nursery, when she's not worried about the nasty little ape
    torching the kids.

    -- mikeK

    The elevator that Ripley road down to Sub-level 4 where the bugs
    lived automatically returned to home. After Ripley exited the elevator
    and started here hunt she looked back at the elevator as it started
    its return,after she was well away from it.  When I get home today
    I will pull out the tape and review this.
    
    Steve

                      <<< Note 357.359 by MINAR::BISHOP >>>
    
>    I think the speculation that the Aliens were designed is the most
>    persuasive.

I'll check my library tonight.. but I thought I remembered something
in the book (Alien) that either said (or implied) that the
Aliens were designed

    re: .360
    
    You spent a paragraph of this reply wondering why dolphins might need
    inteligence, and then in the next paragraph you agree with my statement
    that evolution is not based on the need for new traits. I'm not sure I
    follow that. If dolphins couldn't survive without inteligence, they
    would not have had time to evolve it before getting eaten by
    proto-sharks (assuming they didn't have it when they went back into the 
    water). Inteligence is just a handy feature, added to an already viable
    design. That's the way it worked with us, and that's the way it has to
    work (I think). If a shark mutated the cleverness to avoid baited hooks
    and divers with bang-sticks, he'd likely live longer than his brethren
    and have more sharklings. One might say, "Yes, but his inteligence
    would inhibit his other skills and make him less viable." But I don't
    think there is any proof of that. Inteligence does not blindly override
    all instincts. I would think, instincts would have to evolve out, just
    as other traits evolve in, or else be overridden by socialized habits.
    Human certainly retain many instincts, even with our big brains. A
    killer whales are killing machines, even with their big brains. ALIENS
    could be the analog of the smart shark. Or the smart bee, for that
    matter, with the hive instincts still strong. Inteligence does not
    necessarily require that self preservation over rules preservation of
    the species. Plenty of humans have given their lives for the good of
    their "hives". Now, I will agree that the queen is the only one we see
    doing anything that seems to _require_ inteligence, but we see the
    others do stuff that _could_be_ inteligent and we don't see them do
    anything that is _really_stupid_. Nothing stupider, for instance, than
    the trench warfare of WW I. Was it just luck that had the warrior climb
    aboard the marines' plane, robbing them of the vast majority of their
    firepower and their means of escape? It might have been...
    
    As far as big brains being a survival liability, I'm not at all
    convinced that the humans have reached the end of their survival road,
    but even if we do smart ourselves to death, the other big brained
    residents of the planet like dolphins are doing just fine. If they die
    off, it'll because of our big brains, not their own. So on our planet
    (assuming humans are about to snuff it), one big brained species out
    of several (how many? 3? 5? more if you count apes) shows any signs of
    smarts being a bad investment. I don't see that as a clear condemnation
    of big brains ;*) .
    
    Cheers!
    
    Charlie

>     <<< Note 357.363 by VIRGO::CRUTCHFIELD "Too busy to be doing this!" >>>
>                           -< Smarts ain't so dumb. >-
>
>    re: .360
>    
>    You spent a paragraph of this reply wondering why dolphins might need
>    inteligence, and then in the next paragraph you agree with my statement
>    that evolution is not based on the need for new traits.

>>    Back to the Aliens.  Right, evolution does not postulate that mutations
>>    occur because they are useful, but useful mutations will survive and be
>>    propogated.

    Implied -- deterant mutations will not survive nor propagate.  Benign
    muations may or may not.  Intelligence is not like brown eyes.  It either
    protects or kills.  It doesn't occur because it is useful, but if it is
    propogated and enhanced (it must develope gradually or in stages), then
    it has proven competitive against stupidity.

    These aliens do not appear to have come from a world where differences
    which we consider major (or even minor) are likely to survive indifferently.
    Ever read F. Herbert's "The Dosadi Experiment"?  Whatever environment
    produced them was extremely competitive.  That is one reason you can't
    tell these gooks apart.

>    If dolphins couldn't survive without inteligence, they would not have
>    had time to evolve it before getting eaten by proto-sharks (assuming they
>    didn't have it when they went back into the water).

    That's a big assumption, and a relative one.  They had enough smarts to
    survive (or had enough access to the shore, or in safe waters).  Those
    that had better senses (in this case requiring a developed brain), or
    cooperated well explored deper waters.  Eventually they evolved the
    abilities necessary for continuous deep-sea survival.  The others died
    out when their limited habitats disappeared, or else evolved into seals
    and eventually into sealskin coats for animal rights activists to spit on.

>    Inteligence is just a handy feature, added to an already viable
>    design.

    All features compose a viable design, or don't.

>    That's the way it worked with us, and that's the way it has to
>    work (I think).

    I don't.  Primates survive without intelligence, true.  But our direct
    competitors are all gone.  (Seen a neanderthal lately?)  It is entirely
    possible that they were more competitive than us in every other way, or
    that the differences in intelligence were the only things which
    distinguished us, originally.  Environments change and the most adaptable
    and the most competitive survive.  Dolphins didn't just jump in the water
    and start making thirty-minute dives, then gradually start using sonar and
    smiling [sic] a million years later.

>    If a shark mutated the cleverness to avoid baited hooks
>    and divers with bang-sticks, he'd likely live longer than his brethren
>    and have more sharklings. One might say, "Yes, but his inteligence
>    would inhibit his other skills and make him less viable." But I don't
>    think there is any proof of that. Inteligence does not blindly override
>    all instincts.

    Of course it doesn't.  If I though that, then our intelligence is just
    an aberation.  We are proof that intelligence can be competitive.  I
    just said that this was not necessarily so.  It is more likely to be
    a hindrance in a hive animal than in a species of individuals; less
    likely to be an important survival trait in an animal that lives by
    tooth-box and battle-tail than in a soft, hairless, weak-nailed,
    blunt-toothed ape.

    The point about the hive is that there are too many individuals for
    complex interaction.  Small groups (dolphins, sharks) can cooperate.

    The immediate question is not would they, but do they.  Do we see
    complex interaction between dolphins?  Sharks?  Aliens?  Do they
    share information, support each others actions in a manner which
    divides labor and separates roles on an individual level?  Do they
    appear to communicate and respond to communication?  Dolphins do.
    Sharks don't.  Aliens don't.  Sharks and aliens (in groups) tend to
    follow parallel courses of action individually.  The individuality
    of the queen was reflected in physical differences -- she didn't just
    have a different idea.  She didn't even act until her other function
    ended (no eggs, no soldiers to bring food).  Even though events were
    obviously moving in that direction.  When she finally moved, she did
    just what the soldiers did.

>    Human certainly retain many instincts, even with our big brains.

    True.  Intelligence does not replace instinctive behavior.

>    ALIENS could be the analog of the smart shark.

    Sharks don't lay eggs, but they do communicate and cooperate.

>    Or the smart bee, for that matter, with the hive instincts still strong.

    Show me a smart bee.  Intelligence has not developed on Earth in animals
    which bear large numbers of young or animals which hatch.  That doesn't
    mean it can't happen, but the only evidence we have does not make it
    appear likely.

>    Inteligence does not
>    necessarily require that self preservation over rules preservation of
>    the species. 

    Absolutely.  These are not related.  We belive that a sense of self
    (self-awareness, sentience) is a result of intelligence.  But many
    group species have both instincts for self-preservation and preservation
    of the nest/offspring.  The problem whith hives is not that devotion
    to the group before the individual precludes intelligence, but that
    efficient coordination of large numbers conflicts with individualism.
    If we want to look more closely at hives, it makes more sense to
    speculate about group minds.  (And come to think of it, a creature
    that evolved to survive in such adverse environments as hard vaccuum
    might well develop telepathy of some form -- assuming the possibility
    of telepathy -- or some radiation-based, soundless, airless method
    -- if it developed communication at all.  We don't need to see subtitles
    to know if they are talking; we do need to see cooperative reactions.)

>    Now, I will agree that the queen is the only one we see
>    doing anything that seems to _require_ inteligence

    We have conflicting interpretations for this, and the "writer wasn't
    consistent; I don't buy this" faltering of disbelief is quite tempting.

>    others do stuff that _could_be_ inteligent and we don't see them do
>    anything that is _really_stupid_.

    What is stupid for something born with vaccuum-hard battle-armor,
    concentrated acid for blood, lash-and-knife tail, gutsucking jaws,
    and such undiscriminating environmental requirements?  Took them a
    while to realise that walking into a flamethrower was not a good idea.

>    Nothing stupider, for instance, than the trench warfare of WW I.

    I this an indication of intelligence?  :-)
    But they are less ingenuos.  They just attack.  Nothing else.
    No need to be able to think of anything else.
 
>    Was it just luck that had the warrior climb
>    aboard the marines' plane, robbing them of the vast majority of their
>    firepower and their means of escape? It might have been...
    
    The success of hive beasts is often due to their numbers and dispersal
    patterns.  They infest everything.  The success of the one which
    brought down the shuttle craft was due to his being the one who
    went in that direction, then followed the trails of the any incubators
    it crossed.  Its move was a strategic victory because the incubators
    were in the plane.

    Do you mean that it snuck in and waited?  That isn't at all clear, but
    if it happened, he could have followed the trail till it ended in the
    empty craft, then instinctively waited at the end of the trail.  Also,
    I wouldn't be surprised if a spacefaring insect instinctively tracked
    and occupied technological artifacts.

    A better argument for inteligent roaches might be that they snuck through
    the maintenance spaces in the colonial complex, rather than walking through
    the halls.  True, the entrances to the hallways were blocked off, but the
    aliens had demonstrated a tendancy to walk through obstacles rather than
    around them.  I chalk this up to the director just developing an opportunity
    for suspense and the make-up artist showing off the "grasshopper"
    configuration.  It also exhibits the dangers of intelligent life depending
    too much on technology.

>    As far as big brains being a survival liability, I'm not at all
>    convinced that the humans have reached the end of their survival road.

    Neither am I, the jury is still out.  (But we are the jury.  Does that
    make you feel comfortable?)

>    but even if we do smart ourselves to death, the other big brained
>    residents of the planet like dolphins are doing just fine. If they die
>    off, it'll because of our big brains, not their own. So on our planet
>    (assuming humans are about to snuff it), one big brained species out
>    of several (how many? 3? 5? more if you count apes) shows any signs of
>    smarts being a bad investment.

    True, none of the other smart animals we know of seem to be dieing because
    of their smarts.

    I must say, I really do enjoy these intellectual exchanges.  I live in a
    working-class neighborhood and work all day with propellerheads.  Not that
    the other propellerheads aren't fun to play with, but at work it's always
    about work.

    -- mikeK	+{:-)

364 replies??? I got some time on my hands, but not that much!

Anyway, I humbly submit my theory as to where the aliens will come from for A3.
I apologize if someone else has already suggested it. I also have the benefit
of seeing teasers for it that shows an egg over the Earth.

In the end, the Queen Mother (alien, that is) has ripped free of her egg sac and
hidden in the dropship. The ship carries her into the loading bay of the 
troopship. If the egg sac was just for laying eggs, the rest of her 
reproductive organs are in her body, and may contain eggs ready for laying.
She was pretty busy in the loading bay, but she had plenty of time to lay some
in the undercarriage of the dropship. We know that those eggs are pretty tough,
like spores (they survived the harsh environment of the planet for a time
long enough for their pilot to fossilize). Therefore, they would be able to
survive the trip back to the troopship, and from there back to Earth orbit in
a dormant state, even if the loading bay was evacuated to vacuum. Someone waaay
back mentioned abandoning the ship and destroying it, which would take care of
the problem, but the govt might object to scuttling a large piece of equipment
like that (two strikes for Ripley, that's for sure!). Also, the company might
just be there waiting, hoping for specimens (Paul Reiser had intended to take 
them some).

On a side note, I read a book shortly after Aliens came out about this female
space pilot or something who went out to rescue a lost expedition, and found
that they had discovered these alien bugs (more like trilobites, I guess).
They called them "kites". There was this manipulative company man on board,
the lady was in the doghouse with the company for something she had done, so
he was going to try and "infect" her with these things and bring some back
for nefarious research. It was a good book, but I kept thinking it was an
adaptation of Aliens, or vice versa. I never saw any references of one to the
other, but they sure were similar.

    
    Re: -1, not bad.  But how about this for an A3 scenario...
    
    Suppose the derelict ship found on LV-463(?) by the Nostromo (and 
    later by the colonists) had originally been on its way to invade 
    and/or colonize Earth, when one of the "soldiers" it was carrying, 
    hatched pre-maturely, forcing an emergency landing on LV. And that 
    during this time, the invading crew was killed by the alien.
    
    ...but now, many years later, the invaders decide to try again.  
    Suddenly, an invader ship (like the one found on LV) pulls into 
    a parking orbit around good old Terra and starts drop-shipping
    alien soldiers...
    

The only objection I have to looking at these things as soldiers is that they 
are such vicious b*st*rds that once turned loose, they would be impossible to
control. The old problem with mercenaries: once they win the war for the 
kingdom, who will protect the kingdom from them? Any race would have to be 
absolutely nuts to try to put these things to use. One might look at the 
original alien ship as a quarantine or prison ship, from a race too 
compassionate to use genocide against the buggers, therefore the broadcast
warning. On the other hand, the warning might just have been "We're a bunch of 
mean mothers, and you better not mess with us!" Not quite as poetic as Semper 
Fi.

    	Have you seen the comic book (or to be PC, graphic novel) series
    on ALIENS?  There were three volumes, of which I found the second to
    be the best written and drawn.  It deals with a crazy general trying
    to control the aliens to wipe out the ones already taking over Earth
    in the first volume (Yes, the Company had snuck a few aliens to Earth,
    and guess what happened).
    
    	Larry
                      

    
    re: -1,
    
    	No Larry, I hadn't.  I will look into it now, though.
    
    						Thanks,
    						-Steve
    
    I do, however, recall seeing one of those expensive comics (graphic
    novel?) with a Predator vs. Aliens story line.

    	No, I am referring to the "pure" Aliens series, though A vs P
    is entertaining, if nothing too deep.
    
    	Larry
    

    Re .367:
    
    I would expect that anybody designing the Aliens as soldiers would put
    in several "off" switches.  Hear a certain sound, turn off.  Taste a
    certain chemical (some organic particular to the metabolism of the
    creators, for example), turn off.  Or if you don't get a certain
    chemical (some organic in the victims, which humans happen to share),
    go dormant.  In the light of the home sun, turn off.
    
    
    				-- edp

I can't wait for Godzilla Vs. The Alien. Or maybe Godzilla and Frankenstein vs.
The Alien and The Predator on World Championship Tag Team Wrestling... 

 ;^)

    How about Bambii versus Alien?  :+)

    I haven't read this string, so forgive me if I restate the obvious.
    
    Surely the Alien troops are the same animal as their parent! They are
    simply different stages of development, as the pupa-in-the-chest is an
    earlier stage. Alien troops are the equivalent of six-year-olds. Human
    six-year-olds are similarly inclined, especially boys. Humans aren't as
    prepared for mayhem, however. Alien adults slap those acid-filled
    buggers around to keep them in line. The Alien mother's problem was
    she didn't have Dad around to help her mind the kids... they were out
    of control. A3 will have Dad returning from his trip to the grocery for
    the Alien equivalent of milk, only he's picked up this hot young chick
    in the parking lot (Alien values allow multiple spouses, like crickets).  
    Sans kids, the two adults establish communication with the Earth-folk.
    Eventually the Alien adults arrive on our fair planet, where they
    contract to have their children provide police services in Los Angeles
    county.

FYI  I saw a trailer for Aliens III Saturday. I was just a title and Segornie
Weavers name and that it was on Earth and that the release year is 1992.

Steve

    Wow, I read all 375 notes in two days and I'm very impressed about
    all your good thoughts.
    
    re. .371
    The idea about switching it off is brilliant and good stuff for future
    sequels.
    
    But I have another problem with the plot concerning the time.
    
    Just count the months between the first loss of contact and the arrival
    of the troops at the colony. Maybe that was more than a year, an all
    the time Newt was hidding in her shelter. So imagine a little girl
    surviving more than a year absolutley alone and among all these Aliens.
    Do you think it was really possible for her to survive?
    
    BTW I heard that ALIENS III will be on the run by spring 1992
    I'm really looking forward to it
    
    
    BJ
    
    
    

    re:.377
    
    Count *what* months? Presumably you're referring to the fact that
    when the Nostromo was at LV426, they had a 10-month trip ahead of
    them, so the same amount of time must be figured for the Sulaco.
    
    But consider: (1) The Sulaco is a military ship, not a commercial
    ship, and it's not towing an ore refinery. Undoubtedly, it's a *lot*
    faster than the Nostromo. (2) It's 57 years later, and a lot of
    technological development can occur in that time.
    
    Also note that when Ripley asks (paraphrased) "How soon after our
    check-in with home base is overdue can we expect a rescue party?" The
    answer was "17 days". So, we can assume that the trip is a matter of
    weeks, not months.
    
    --- jerry

    re .378
    
    Thanks Jerry, haven't thought about the faster ship and development
    
    BJ
    

    If things got so much faster (less than 17 days) then why the need for
    suspended animation when Ripley & Co. go back to the planet?
    
             Niall

    Probably to save on consumeables.
    
    More consumeables probably means a slower ship.
    
    Then again, Probably not by all that much.  This aspect seems a slight
    inconsistiancy to me.
    
    Tony

    Re: .380
    
    My immediate thought is that they still need to conserve consumables,
    i.e. food, air, and water.  The military cruiser trades life support
    for speed and range.  If they're in suspended animation this works out
    nicely, even if it's only for two weeks. 
    
    - Russ. 
      
    

    .382
    
    Another possibility is that there may be back up closer than from
    earth.  The initial rescue team departed from earth coz they needed
    Ripley with them... this is not to say that there may not be a closer
    military backup.
    
    Bob

Article: 14965
Newsgroups: alt.cult-movies,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,news.answers
From: [email protected]
Subject: MOVIES: ALIEN FAQ part 1/3
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: University of Alberta Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 00:26:56 GMT
 
Posting-Frquency: approx. every 2 months
Archive-name: movies/alien-faq/part1
Version: 1.6
 
THIS is just a test to see if this will archive right.  Just ignore it.
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&                                                                            &
&                         ALIEN, ALIENS and ALIEN^3                          &
&                                                                            &
&                 Information and Frequently Asked Questions                 &
&                                                                            &
&                               Version 1.6                                  &
&                                                                            &
&                               PART 1 of 3                                  &
&                                                                            &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 
A word about the information provided in this FAQ (paraphrased from earlier
editions):
 
With the exceptions of my own contributions, this FAQ has been assembled
by the material supplied to me through Email and public-access messages that
I've scavenged off the internet.  Information that is contributed is often 
paraphrased and combined with existing (other users') info.  Needless to say, 
it's impossible to give everybody their rightful line of credit, so a general
"Thank you" goes out to all who've contributed to this FAQ and made it what
it is.  (you know who you are)
                              - Darryll Hobson ([email protected])
 
The contents of this FAQ are not "carved in stone" so if you have proof to
support or deny anything that is stated, don't hesitate to say so.
 
This FAQ will be posted OCCASIONALLY to: alt.cult-movies
                                         rec.arts.sf.movies
                                         rec.arts.movies
And an archive will be setup in news.answers (hopefully soon)
 
WARNING:  This FAQ contains spoilers.
 
WARNING:  Anyone who complains about the posting of this LARGE document to
          the Internet or offers me bizzarre, strange, and complicated 
          alternatives to "posting" will be [cordially] ignored.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
CONTENTS
 
PART 1:
  How do I contribute to this FAQ?........................................0
  Movie synopsis..........................................................1
  What is an Alien?.......................................................2
  Who is [character/director]?............................................3
  Which scenes were "cut"?................................................4
  What different versions of each movie are there?........................5
  Was there any merchandise?..............................................6
 
PART 2:
  Memorable quotes........................................................7
  Trivia..................................................................8
  Technical problems......................................................9
  Plot problems and loopholes.............................................10
  Frequently asked questions..............................................11
 
PART 3:
  Frequently discussed topics.............................................12
  Movie viewing rituals?..................................................13
  Where can I get Gibson's ALIEN^3 script?................................14
  Revision history........................................................15
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
0. HOW DO I CONTRIBUTE TO THIS FAQ?
 
To ensure accuracy, this FAQ has a few ground rules.  The only canonical
sources are interviews with the creators, the theatrical version of _ALIEN_,
the director's cut (or theatrical version) of _ALIENS_ and the extended 
version (or theatrical) of _ALIEN^3_.  All other sources (ie: books, comics,
toys, games, etc...) are generally considered speculative.
 
This does not mean that any information outside of the listed movies is not 
welcome here.  Alot of the "speculative" information is used in discussions
or for giving "possible" answers to questions that cannot be answered by 
events that occur in the movies.
 
If you would like to contribute to this FAQ, TRY and follow this guideline:
 
- include references where necessary.  If you're referring to a book, it's
  often a good idea to include the title of the book and Author's name as it
  would appear on the book (ie: " Alan Dean Foster " instead of " Foster ")
 
- be specific/verbose about your information, there's no limit to the size of
  this FAQ.
 
- if you wish to update/add to something already in the FAQ, please do so.
  Some of this information could easily be elaborated upon [especially the
  comments that are enclosed in square brackets].
 
- it's preferable if you make your contribution through Email as this FAQ can
  get posted to a newsgroup that I don't read and your efforts will be wasted.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
1. MOVIE SYNOPSIS
 
_ALIEN_ 
  (Color, 1979, Rated R, Shot in Panavision (2.35:1)) In deep outer space the
  crew of a commercial spaceship make an unscheduled landing on a barren and
  desolate planet for engine repairs.  They encounter a pulsating organism
  which attaches itself to one of the crew members and reproduces within his
  body to become the deadly ALIEN.  As each of the crew members is slain by 
  the creature - one by one - the final confrontation between the last
  surviving crew member and the Alien culminates in an explosive conclusion.
  116 minutes. [quoted from the 1984 CBS/FOX Video release]
 
_ALIENS_
  (Color, 1986, Rated R, Shot flat (1.87:1)) Sigourney Weaver returns as
  Ripley, the only survivor from mankind's first encounter with the Alien.
  Her account of the Alien and the fate of her crew is received with
  skepticism - until transmissions from space colonists who have since
  settled on the Alien's planet abruptly stop.  Determined to end the
  recurring nightmares of her terrifying ordeal and to completely exterminate
  the deadly creature, Ripley joins a team of high-tech combat vets sent to
  investigate the disappearance of the space colonists!  Approx. 138 Minutes. 
  [quoted from the 1992 CBS/FOX Video release]
 
_ALIEN^3_ (1992)
  (Color, 1992, Rated R, Shot in Panavision (2.35:1))  In _ALIEN^3_, Ripley
  finds herself an unwelcome guest on Fiorina 161, a lice-infested planet in a
  distant solar system, when the EEV she's travelling on malfunctions and
  crashes.  Fiorina -- or "Fury" -- 161 is inhabited by a small community of
  violent criminals who discovered religion and stayed behind when their
  prison facility was evacuated.  As a woman, Ripley is the ultimate outcast;
  her presence causes conflicts that endanger the pracarious balance of power
  on the planet, threatening to turn the reformed members of the monastic
  community back into killers.
  There is, however, an even more dangerous visitor to Fury 161 -- a stowaway 
  alien who threatens not only the inhabitants of this planet but of the
  entire universe.  Faced with extinction, the prisoners band together under
  Ripley's leadership and, despite a lack of advanced technology and modern
  weapons, battle the creature for the very future of mankind. [quoted from
  the 1992 CBS/FOX laserdisc release]
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2. WHAT IS AN ALIEN?
 
This section discusses what we know about the Alien life-form; it is entirely
based on facts that are provided to us in each of the movies.  
 
* Note: nothing in any of the canonical sources indicates that aliens use the
        DNA of their hosts to help adapt to their environment.
 
* Note: the phrase "acid for blood" is accepted in this section as a 
        convenient way of describing the corrosive liquid that comes out of
        the aliens/face-huggers when they are shot/cut/mutilated.
 
Eggs - eggs are initially created inside a queen alien and enter the world
(after being queued in her extended abdomen) via slimey tube to stand on  
their own (indicating that there is a definite "up" side and "down" side to
the egg).  The egg itself is a leathery object [...it's full of leathery-
objects; like eggs or something...  Kane (Alien)], translucent and 
approximately 2.5 feet tall.  According to a scene that was cut from _ALIEN_
these eggs could also be "constructed" by a regular alien "infecting" an
organism (which would undergo some sort of metamorphosis) however, this
concept was not supported (nor denied) in _ALIENS_ and _ALIEN^3_.  It is 
important to note that this method was the originally intended method of the
designer of the Alien, H.R. Giger.
 
Face-huggers - hibernating inside one of these eggs is a parasite, commonly
refered to as a face-hugger.  When a viable host is brought near a closed
egg (either by curiosity, or being cocooned and held in place) it triggers
the "contents" of the egg to come to life.  The egg opens and the face-hugger
launches out at the organism and attaches itself by wrapping a long "tail"
around its victim's neck and using long spider-like legs (like a spider, the
face-hugger has 8 legs) to firmly grip the organism's head.  The face-hugger 
controls the amount of oxygen its host receives and puts the victim in a 
comatose state while it reaches down the host's throat and lays an egg.  In 
order to ensure that the job can be completed with little outside 
interference, the face-hugger has concentrated acid for "blood" (a possible 
self defense mechanism) and can strangle its host with its tail [...it's not
coming off without tearing his face off with it.  Dallas (Alien)]  After the 
egg is planted in the victim's body, the face-hugger leaves the host (who 
will soon re-gain conciousness) and dies.  [...he's got an outer layer of 
protein poly-saccarides, has a funny habit of shedding his cells and 
replacing them with polarized silicon which gives him a longer resistance 
to adverse environmental conditions.  Ash (Alien)]
 
Chest-buster - the alien begins its life by bursting from the chest of its
host.  At this stage in its development it has a small cranium, tan-colored
skin and is susceptable to fire.
 
Aliens chestbuster - Unlike the one in _ALIEN_ this chestbuster had arms.
 
Alien^3 chestbuster - This chestbuster was different from the ones in _ALIEN_
and _ALIENS_; it was more "mature looking" immediately after its birth.  
Specifically, unlike the chestbusters of the previous movies, this one had
legs.    
 
Alien - As the chest-buster matures, it sheds its skin (similar to a
snake), its cranium becomes elongated and it has a hard, dark (black/green)
outer shell (exo-skeleton).  The mature alien has concentrated acid for
"blood" and a higher tolerance to fire.  As indicated in _ALIENS_ the alien
creature does not "show up" on infra-red scanners which would indicate that
it does not emit heat.  One distinguishing feature of the alien is that it
has two mouths, one inside the other.  According to H.R. Giger, the inner
mouth is in fact the alien's "tongue" (it is such a vicious creature that
even its tongue is dangerous).  Another interesting feature of the alien is
that it does not have (what we would perceive to be) "eyes".
 
Aliens alien - these aliens only had 3 fingers as opposed to the 6 fingered
creature in _ALIEN_.  Aliens in this movie had a "ribbed" cranium unlike the
smooth cranium of _ALIEN_.
 
Alien^3 alien - This alien is different than the previous ones we've seen; it
tends to move around on all fours at times and ensures that the unborn queen
alien is kept safe.  There are a few speculations as to why this alien is 
different; refer to section [13] frequently discussed topics.
 
The Queen Alien - little is known about her.  From _ALIEN^3_ we know that a
queen alien can be born in the same way as a regular alien.  Some things that
we do know about the queen:  she has a much larger cranium than the usual
alien and is slightly taller (approx 2-3 feet).  The queen has the ability to
create and lay eggs (through the use of the extended abdomen) and she has the
ability to survive without the extended abdomen (for an unknown amount of
time).
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
3. WHO IS [CHARACTER/DIRECTOR] ?
 
If you seek further information about the cast or creators listed below,
check out the rec.arts.movies movie database package which is available
via anonymous FTP to boulder.colorado.edu in the pub/tv+movies/lists
directory.
 
_ALIEN_
 
Director:  Ridley Scott 
Writer:    Dan O'Bannon 
Composer:  Jerry Goldsmith
Director of Photography:  Derek Vanlint
Designer:  H.R.Giger  (Hans Rudi Giger.  Giger pronounced rhyming with "eager")
 
Cast:
Ellen Ripley [Sigourney Weaver]: Warrant Officer
J. Lambert   [Veronica Cartwright]: Navigator.
Ash          [Ian Holm]: Science officer, an android.
Parker       [Yaphet Kotto]: Chief engineer.
Kane         [John Hurt]: Executive officer; the alien bursts from his chest.  
             The _ALIEN_ novelization states that his first name is "Thomas".
S. E. Brett  [Harry Dean Stanton]: Engineering technician.
A. Dallas    [Tom Skerrit]: Captain.
Alien        [Bolaji Bodejo]
Mother       [Helen Horton]: voice of the Nostromo computer.
 
_ALIENS_
 
Director:  James Cameron
Writers:   James Cameron, David Giler (story), Walter Hill (story)
Composer:  James Horner
Director of Photography:  Adrian Biddle
 
Cast:
Ellen Ripley           [Sigourney Weaver]: Cargo loader, gets assigned (by 
                       choice) as an advisor for the mission to LV-426.
Sergeant A. Apone      [Al Matthews]: sergeant, ground commander.
Corporal Dwayne Hicks  [Michael Biehn]: only soldier that survived. 
Private W. Hudson      [Bill Paxton]: cracks alot of jokes.
Private J. Vasquez     [Jenette Goldstein]: uses a smart gun.
Private M. Drake       [Mark Rolston]: uses a smart gun.
Corporal C. Ferro      [Colette Hiller]: dropship pilot (wears sunglasses).
Private D. Spunkmeyer  [Daniel Kash]: dropship co-pilot and cargo loader.
L. Bishop              [Lance Henriksen]: Android; science officer.
Carter J. Burke        [Paul Reiser]: Company advisor.
Private R. Frost       [Ricco Ross]: Hated the corn bread.
Private T. Crowe       [Tip Tipping]
Corporal C. Dietrich   [Cynthia Scott]: Medic.
Lieutenant S. Gorman   [William Hope]: Controls the marines from the APC.
Private T. Wierzbowski [Trevor Steedman]
Rebecca Jorden         [Carrie Henn]: Newt.
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
Director:  David Fincher
Writers:   Larry Ferguson, David Giler, Walter Hill, Vincent Ward (story)
Composer:  Elliot Goldenthal
Director of Photography:  Alex Thomson
 
Cast:
Ellen Ripley [Sigourney Weaver]: sole survivor of the Sulaco, shaves her
             head, carries the next alien queen embryo in her body.
Bishop       [Lance Henriksen]: android and (in a different roll) the designer
             of the android.
Clemens      [Charles Dance]: the doctor.
Golic        [Paul McGann]: in the infirmary, wearing the straight jacket.
Dillon       [Charles S. Dutton]: the religious leader.
Andrews      [Brian Glover]: superintendant
Newt         [Danielle Edmond]: the little girl corpse.
Aaron        [Ralph Brown]              Morse       [Danny Webb]
Arthur       [Dhobi Oparei]             Murphy      [Chris Fairbank]
Jude         [Vincenzo Nicoli]          Eric        [Niall Buggy]
Frank        [Carl Chase]               Kevin       [Philip Davis]
Rains        [Christopher John Fields]  Gregor      [Peter Guinness]
Boggs        [Leon Herbert]             William     [Clive Mantle]
Junior       [Holt McCallany]           David       [Pete Postlethwaite]
Troy         [Paul Brennan]             Company Man [Hi Ching]
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
4. FILMED SCENES THAT DIDN'T APPEAR IN THE THEATRICAL RELEASES.
 
_ALIEN_
 
* From Famous Monsters #158, Special 1980 Annual:
 
A gruesome scene where Kane's bloated corpse floats past the observation 
blister.
 
* From the _ALIEN_ box set:
 
After being awakened from hypersleep, Kane wanders out to the kitchen to 
prepare breakfast, he says "Rise and shine Lambert".
 
Scene where the crew gathers on the bridge and listens to the signal coming 
from the derelict craft. [1 min, 40 sec]
 
Scene where Lambert confronts Ripley about Ripley's reluctance to let them 
back on the ship with Kane and the facehugger.  Lambert tells Ripley, Parker
and Brett how the face hugger got on Kane. [1 min, 40 sec]
 
Ripley radios down to Parker and Brett to see how they're progressing on the 
repairs, Parker and Ripley exchange tense words over the radio. [1 min, 17 sec]
 
After the face hugger's acid eats through a few floors, the crew returns to 
the med lab to check up on Kane's condition.  Ripley sees an X-Ray of Kane's 
chest and asks Ash, "What is that dark stain on Kane's lung?"  The rest of
the crew starts asking if Kane's going to live, Dallas tells everyone to go
back to work. [2 min, 16 sec]
 
After Kane's death, the crew gathers around at the meal table to discuss what 
they're going to do with the escaped alien.  Brett anounces the cattle-prod
idea and suggests "catching" the alien in a net. [2 min, 58 sec]
 
Longer version of Brett's death.  This scene had Brett frozen with fear as the
alien grabs his head, he yells "Parker!" and then blood poors from beneath his
cap.  The alien lifts him up into the landing gear and Ripley and Parker come
rushing in.  Parker stands where Brett once was and looks up; blood drips on
his shirt and then Brett's cattle prod falls to Parker's feet. [48 sec]
 
2/3 of a scene was filmed, this involved Parker, Ripley and Lambert trying to
flush the alien out of the air lock.  As they are about to succeed, an alarm
is triggered and the alien rushes out of the airlock (getting its tail caught
in the closing door, and spilling acid that causes a hull breech).  Parker
falls unconciously to the floor, Ripley does the same and Lambert and Ash 
come to their rescue.  Ripley vocalizes her suspicions about Ash by accusing 
him of setting the alarm off. [total: 1 min, 51 sec]
 
After Dallas's disappearance, Ripley (being suspicious of Ash) asks Lambert if
she's ever slept with him. [1 min, 37 sec]
 
The build-up to Lambert's death is much longer.  (Watch the alien's shadow 
on the wall, it walks in, crouches down, then immediately gets up)  A scene
where we see the alien enter, crouch down and wait until Lambert notices its
presence was cut.  When Lambert sees the alien, it uncoils its tail and walks
(like a crab) over to Lambert.
 
After Ripley discovers the remains of Parker and Lambert, she makes another 
discovery.  Ripley enters the landing gear area of the Nostromo (where Brett
got killed) and discovers a cocooned Dallas and Brett mutating into an egg.
Dallas pleads, "Kill me".  Ripley flames Dallas and the Brett-egg and then 
runs to set the ship on self-destruct. [3 min, 22 sec]
 
_ALIENS_
 
* From the "liner notes" that came with the collector's edition of the movie
  on laserdisc.
 
Ripley is sitting on the park bench waiting for Burke (before the
inquisition), immediately following her stay in Gateway Station' hospital.
This scene reveals that Ripley had a daughter who died 1.5 years before
Ripley was found, and Ripley had promised to be back for her 11th birthday
before going off into space on the Nostromo.
 
After Ripley's outburst during in the inquest ("Because if one of those
creatures gets down here, you can kiss all of this goodbye"), dialogue
has been restored in which Van Leuwen voices the council's final decision.
(her flight status is revoked because she is deemed unfit to serve as 
a flight officer, she has to have monthly psych evaluations, and no
criminal charges being filed against her)
 
During the sequence in Ripley's apartment (where they try to convince
her to go investigate the lack of contact with the Colony), Burke's 
dialogue regarding "The Company's" interest in the colony has been
restored.
 
Immediately following the establishing shot of the Sulaco is a restored
introdution to the interior of the ship, eventually leading to the frost-
covered hypersleep chamber (and then they wake-up. this is similar to the
start of Alien).
 
During the drop from the Sulaco to LV-426, is a restored scene of Hudson
playfully boasting about the Marines and their weaponry.
 
During the Marines' initial search through the colony, a sequence has been
inserted in which Hudson investigate some motion they have deteced ahead
of them.
 
The scene in which Ripley, Burke, Gorman, and Bishop enter the colony has
been restored. (you see lotsa hesitation on Ripley's face before entering
the complex).
 
During Hick's discussion of the equipment salvaged from the APC wreckage,
additional dialogue has been added in which he discribes the four remote
sentry guns and how they can be used.
 
When Ripley and the Marines examine the colony's blueprints, discussing
how they will barricade themselves inside the complex, there is some 
additional dialogue referring to the strategic placement of the sentry
guns.
 
The sequence of Hicks arming the sentry, and Hudson and Vasquez testing
one of the sentry guns been restored.
 
Before the scene where Ripley carries Newt into the infirmary, a single
show of the sentry guns has been inserted.
 
During the scene where Ripley puts Newt to bed in the medical center, the
dialogue about Ripley's daughter and the origin of babies as been restored.
(Newt asks if Ripley ever had a daughter and the fact that she's dead).
 
In the scene where Ripley, Bishop, Hudson, and Vasquez discuss the aliens'
life cycle, there is some additional dialogue in which Hudson, Vasquez and
Bishop offer their speculations. (beehive/anthill sort of society)
 
After Ripley's confrontation with Burke, the sequence involving the aliens 
attempting to make their way past the sentry guns in the service tunnel 
has been restored. 
 
After Vasquez and Ripley seal Bishop in the pipe, the aliens confront the
other two sentry guns that have been set up in the colony corridors. At
the end of the sequence, when Hicks dispatches Hudson and Vasquez (to
walk perimeter), some of the shots have been rearranged from the theatrical
edition and Hicks' dialogue slightly altered.
 
Before Ripley leaves the drop-ship to rescue Newt, there is some additional
dialogue in thich she turns to Hicks to say goodbye, and they exchange their
first names:
                RIPLEY : See you Hicks.
                HICKS : Dwayne.  It's Dwayne.
                RIPLEY : Ellen.
                HICKS : Don't be gone long, Ellen.
 
Scene where a small the colonists receive orders from Burke telling them to 
explore the derelict space craft.  Newt's family drives to the site, during
the trip Newt and her brother Timothy are arguing about a game of hide and
seek that they play in the colony's airduct system.  Timothy complains that
Newt has the unfair advantage of being able to hide in the small places that
the rest of the players can't get to.  Following this, they arrive at the
derelict ship and the mother and father go in; later the mother returns 
dragging the father who now has a face hugger clamped on his face.
 
There's a scene of the colony, before contact with the aliens, in this scene
we see a sign outside the colony reading: "Hadleys Hope - pop. 158"
 
Newt asks Ripley if human babies are born the same way the aliens are.
 
When Ripley is searching for Newt, she finds Burke who has been cocooned and
impregnated.  Burke begs Ripley to shoot him, instead she hands him a grenade.
< this scene did not appear in the director's cut, but WAS filmed >
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
Scene where Ripley's face is covered with bugs [possibly lice?]
 
There was a dream sequence near the start of the movie where Ripley dreams 
that an alien is searching the wreckage and tries to rape her.
 
The original movie didn't include the scene of the alien bursting from the 
dog's chest.  Card #39 (of the _ALIEN^3_ trading card set) is a picture of
an ox hanging in an Abattoir and the text says, "In one of the original
scenes for Alien^3, oxen are used to pull Ripley's EEV from the water.  When
one of the oxen falls to the ground, the prisoners take it to the Abattoir
for butchering.  But while a prisoner is preparing to butcher the ox, the
Alien bursts from the animals chest."
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
5. DIFFERENT MOVIE VERSIONS.
 
_ALIEN_
2 videos - standard and wide screen edition.
2 discs - standard and special letterbox version containing a seperate
          section with the cut scenes, photos and several design drawings,
          including drawings by Moebius, Ron Cobb and H.R. Giger.
- "Alien" Super 8 Film (200 feet long)
 
_ALIENS_
2 videos - standard and directors cut, containing cut scenes put back into
           the movie.
2 discs  - same as videos.
 
_ALIEN^3_
2 videos - standard and a making of.
1 disc - standard movie.
 
[more?]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
6. MERCHANDISE
 
_BOOKS_
 
* NOTE: "pb" = paperback, "hc" = hardcover.
 
- Alien Souvenir Movie Program sold in theatres (pb)
- Alien Official Movie Magazine (pb, Warren Publishing)
- "The Book Of Alien" by Scanlon/Gross (pb, Simon & Schuster)
- "Alien, The Illustrated Story" by Goodwin/Simonson (pb, Heavy Metal)
- "Alien", The Movie Novel edited by Anobile (pb, Avon)
- "Giger's Alien" art by H R Giger (pb, Big O Publishing) 
  (hc, Morpheus International)
- "Aliens", The Official Movie Book (pb, Starlog) (pb, Japanese)
- "Aliens", The Official Movie Magazine (pb, Starlog)
- "Alien" by Alan Dean Foster (novelisation) (pb, 1st US ed. Warner)
  (1st US. hc, SFBC, code J-27) (1st trade hc, UK)
- "Aliens" by Alan Dean Foster (novelisation) (pb, 1st US ed. Warner)
  (1st US hc, SFBC, code Q-44) (1st trade hc, UK, Severn House)
- "Alien^3" by Alan Dean Foster (novelisation)
- "Alien" Movie Script by Hill and Giler
- "Aliens" Movie Script by James Cameron
- "Alien III" Movie Script by William Gibson
- "Alien Poster Magazine" Nos. 1 & 2
- Alien Press Book
- Alien Press Kit
- Aliens Press Kit
 
_COMICS_
 
- Dark Horse comics:
     Aliens vol 1 1-6, black+white     Aliens vol 2 1-6, colour
     Aliens: Earth War 1-4             Aliens:Hive 1-4
     Aliens:Genocide 1-4               Aliens:Tribes 1-4
     Aliens:Newt's Tale 1-2            Aliens:Colonial Marines 1-12 (+more)
     Aliens:Rogue 1-4 (+more)          Aliens vs. Predator 0-6
- Dark Horse comics (special):
     Dark Horse Presents 24 (first appearance of the aliens in a comic)
     Dark Horse Presents: Aliens (available in a Platinum edition as well)
- Dark Horse Comics:  Alien3 1-3
- Aliens vs. Predator: The Deadliest Of The Species.  (12 parts)
 
_MAGAZINES & ARTICLES_
 
- Alien Invasions (Warren Presents No.3)
- American Cinematographer: August, 1979 issue
- American Film: Vol.4, No.5.
- Cinefantastique: Vol.9, No.1 Vol.16, No.3, No.4/5 (double issue)
- Cinefex: Nos. 1 & 27
- Cinemacabre: No.2
- Cracked Magazine: (parody) Digest No. II (Monster Party, 1/87)
- Famous Monsters of Filmland: Nos. 154,155,156,157,158,159
- Fangoria: Nos. 1 & 3
- Fantastic Films: Nos. 9,10,11,12,13,22
- Filmfax: No. 4
- Future Life: No. 11
- Galactic Journal: No. 21
- Mad Magazine: (parody) Nos. 212, 268
- Mediascene: Nos. 32 & 35
- Monsterland: Nos. 11 & 13
- Premier: May 1992, Vol. 5, No. 9
- Prevue: No. 65
- Questar: No. 5
- Space Monsters: No. 1
- Space Wars: issues dated 9/79, 3/80
- Spotlight: Oct - Nov 1986, No 4 (French)
- Starburst: (British) Nos. 8,14,16,17,19,88,97,98,99,100,102,105
- Starlog: Nos. 22,23,24,25,26,27,41,99,103,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,
  115,117,121,125,126,150
- Japanese Edition: Nos. 7 & 9
- Sci-Fi Yearbook: No. 1
- Scrapbook: No.6
- Best of Starlog: Nos. 1 & 7
- Poster Magazine: Vol.1, Nos. 2 & 7
- Starlog Yearbook: Nos. 1,2,6,7
- Starwarp: Vol.2, No.3
 
_CLOTH PATCHES_                             _IRON ONS_
 
- US Colonial Marines (with Eagle)          - USCS Nostromo
- US Colonial Marines (words)               - Alien Egg
- USCS Nostromo (emblem)                    - Space Jockey
- USCS Sulaco (emblem)
- Delta (USCM emblem)
 
_PUZZLES (all from HG Toys)_
 
- "Alien" painted by Montage (large size)   - "Alien Egg"
- "Nostromo in Flight"                      - "Kane Looking In Egg"
- "Puzzle in an Egg"(painted Alien Warrior) - "Alien Space Jockey"
 
 
_BUTTONS AND PINS_
 
- "Alien" movie promo (probably more than one)
- "Aliens" movie promo (probably more than one; the one I have is a blue
  3-D button with the word logo)
- "Alien^3" movie promo (large and rectangular with a picture of an egg,
  the title "Alien^3" and the date "1992" on it)
- "Alien 2" Japanese painted metal pin (figure of Alien Warrior)
- Dark Horse Cloisette Series:
    No.1 (Alien Warrior)            No.2 (Alien Warrior)
    No.3 (Alien Queen)              No.4 (Chestburster)
    No.5 (Facehugger)               No.6 (Facehugger)
	scheduled (ie, Nos. 7 & 8, the "Alien Drones")
 
_POSTERS AND PROMO ITEMS_
 
- "Alien" movie poster issue (one sheet) [possibly a 3 sheet]
- "Aliens" movie poster issue styles "A" and "B"
- "Ripley and Newt" Aliens promo poster
- Alien Warrior: comic illustration (by Mark Neilson)
- "Aliens" video promo poster
- door sized Alien Warrior
- Alien Warrior photo poster
- H. R. Giger set of 6 or 8 concept design lithographs (S/N, edition of 325)
- "Alien" movie sticker (Italien)
- "Alien" movie stills (eight coloured stills, labeled "Set A") [more?]
- "Alien" set of eight lobby cards (larger/smaller sizes)
- "Alien" promotional matchbook (given away at 7-11, features Alien Egg logo)
- "Alien" 8" by 16" cardboard promotional (movie theatre) insert
- "Aliens" cardboard promotional (movie theatre) stand up of Ripley in Alien
  Egg Chamber
- "Aliens" video store promotional display
 
_CARDS_
 
- "Alien" card set (84 cards with 22 stickers) (Topps)
- "Alien^3" card set
 
_MODELS_
 
- KAIYODO Alien Warrior (Japanese)
- KAIYODO Alien Queen (Japanese)
- KAIYODO Alien Warrior II (based upon H.R. Giger's pre-production concept
  design; limited ed., issued at 8/89 Japanese Model Fest)
- KAIYODO Alien Warrior ("deformed") (Japanese)
- TSUKUDA Alien Warrior (Japanese)
- JRC Facehugger (Japanese "Garage Kit")
- JRC Chestburster (Japanese "Garage Kit")
- NYC Narcissus (Japanese)
- NYC Alien Queen Metal Miniature Figure (Japanese)
- OZ SHOP Alien Warrior, Astronaut, APC, Drop Ship (all "deformed")
- SCOOP Alien Facehugger Bust (Japanese)
- Scoop Alien Egg (on base) (Japanese)
- MPC Alien Warrior (1st edition with jaws, 2nd edition no jaws)
- HALCYON Alines Armoured Personnel Carrier
- HALCYON Aliens Drop Ship (* Note: SHED customising kit available)
- GONZOID Alines Armoured Personnel Carrier (1/72 scale)
- LATTIMER PRODUCTIONS Chestburster (lifesize)
- MFR. UNKNOWN Alien Nostromo Astronaut (on base with egg) (Japanese)
- AEF MODEL KITS (small scale, highly detailed)	Hicks; Drake; Frost; Dietrich;
  Apone; Gorman; Hudson; Wierzbowski; Crowe; Ferro; Spunkmeyer; Vasquez(gun);
  Vasquez(escape); Ripley(combat); Ripley(escape); Completion Kits A,B,C;
  Equipment Kits A,B,C; Alien Warriors A,B,C,D; Alien Queen (attack mode);
  Alien Egg Assortment; Closed Egg Assortment; Facehugger/Chestburster
  Assortment; Alien Egg Chamber [very ltd edition of 150?]; USCM Power Loader
- Sulaco, ALIEN^3 chestbuster, facehugger (full scale), Queen Chestbuster,
  Power Loader [more?]
 
_UNCONFIRMED MODEL KITS_
 
- Unknown Mfr. M-41A Pulse Rifle Kit
- Unknown Mfr. Alien Chestburster (Japanese Garage Kit)
- Unknown Mfr. "Aliens" Deformed Queen (Japanese Garage Kit)
- ICHIBA Nostromo Model Kit (200+ pieces) (Japanese)
 
_AUDIO ITEMS_
 
- "Alien" Film Soundtrack (J. Goldsmith)
- "Aliens" Film Soundtrack (J. Horner)
 
_MISC ITEMS_
 
- LARAMI "Alien" Glow Putty
- THINKING CAP COMPANY "Alien" NOSTROMO baseball cap
- "In space, everybody can wear a cap" cap.
- BEN COOPER "Alien" Halloween Costume
- DISTORATIONS "Alien" Full Size Mask (cast from original used in movie,
  limited edition) [anwhere from 25 to 300 in edition?]
- DON POST "Alien" Facehugger (lifesize in plexiglass case)
- SF MASK COMPANY "Alien" Head Mask
- MARCO INDUSTRIES "Alien" Head Mask
- MARCO INDUSTRIES "Alien" Full Sized Body Suit with Mask & Working Jaws
- MARCO INDUSTRIES "Aliens" M-41 A Pulse Rifle Set (3 grenades, locater
  wristband, web sling, extra pulse cartidge, etc.)
- "Aliens" Logo Mug
- "Aliens" Doorknob sign ("This Room Protected By Aliens" and "Bug Off")
- "Aliens" Car Window Sign ("Aliens on Board")
- "Aliens" Door Sign ("Aliens Fan Club Members Only")
- "Aliens" Note Pads ("Trust Me, I'm The Boss" & "A Note From The Better Half")
- Full-scale inflatable alien doll.
 
_T-SHIRTS_
 
- Black Shirt with Drooling Alien (front) Green Alien Egg (back)
- Black/Grey Shirt with Alien Warrior (front) Warrior's Tail and words
  ("In Space No One Can Hear You Scream") (back)
- Black Shirt with Alien Egg and words ("How Do You Like Your Eggs?") (front)
- 3-D Alien Chestburster coming through front of shirt
- Grey Shirt with USCM Emblem (front)
- Grey Shirt with "Aliens" logo (front)/words ("There Are Some Places In The
  Universe You Don't Go Alone")
 
_TOYS AND GAMES_
 
- KENNER 18" "Alien" Warrior Action Figure
- KENNER "Alien" Board Game
- HG TOYS "Alien" Blaster Target Game
- HG TOYS "Alien" Chase Target Game
- KENNER "Alien" Movie Viewer and Cartridge
- "Alien"
- ACTIVISION "Aliens" Computer Game
- ELECTRIC DREAMS "Aliens" (European version)
- "ALIEN^3" for the Sega Mega Drive, Amiga and possibly others.
- LEADING EDGE "Aliens" Role Playing Game
- LEADING EDGE "Aliens" Expansion Module
- HG TOYS "Alien" pistol (shoots ping-pong balls)
- RPG:  Primary Design: Barry Nakazono
        Writing and Design: David McKenzie
        Editing and Production: Irene Kinzek
 
  The role playing game contradicts the movie in several ways, therefore
  its contents are purely speculatory, however it has this to say about
  the aliens: 
    * Aliens feed on electricity, sort of like car batteries.
    * Facehuggers are awakened by MOTION outside their egg.
    * There are 3 types of aliens:  queen, warrior and sentries.
    * All types of aliens can lay eggs, however the queen's are larger and
      will last longer (centuries as opposed to months).
    * Warriors are the standard aliens that you see in the movies.
    * Sentries have special sensors that allow them to "feel" vibrations
      anywhere in the hive.
    * Aliens do have a language of gestures and audible sounds.
    * Aliens can see infrared as well as the visible spectrum.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Article: 15231
Newsgroups: alt.cult-movies,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,news.answers
From: [email protected] (Darryll S H Hobson)
Subject: MOVIES: ALIEN FAQ part 2/3
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: University of Alberta Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 00:52:20 GMT
 
Posting-Frquency: approx. every 2 months
Archive-name: movies/alien-faq/part2
Version: 1.6
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&                                                                            &
&                         ALIEN, ALIENS and ALIEN^3                          &
&                                                                            &
&                 Information and Frequently Asked Questions                 &
&                                                                            &
&                               Version 1.6                                  &
&                                                                            &
&                               PART 2 of 3                                  &
&                                                                            &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 
 
7. MEMORABLE QUOTES
 
In some cases, the circumstances around which these quotes occur will be
given so the reader can get the "full effect" of the moment.
 
"The entire world revolves around this wretched Alien." - H.R. Giger
 
_ALIEN_
 
< Kane starts choking, this starts the scene where the Alien bursts from his
  chest>
"What's the matter man, the food ain't THAT bad?!" - Parker
 
< Ripley asks how long it takes the ship to self destruct >
"If we ain't outta here in 10 minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through 
 space." - Parker
 
"You still don't know what you're dealing with do you?  Perfect organism.  
 Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility [...] I admire 
 its purity, a survivor; unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of 
 morality." - Ash
 
_ALIENS_
 
< Ripley tells the story of why Burke tried to impregnate her and Newt with 
  alien eggs >
"I say we grease this rat-fuck son-of-a-bitch right now!" - Hudson
"You know Burke, I don't know which species is worse; you don't see them 
 fucking each other over for a goddam percentage!" - Ripley
 
< Gorman orders the troops to disarm all their weapons before the first alien
  encounter >
"What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?" - Frost
 
< The dropship crashes >
"Well that's great, that's just fuckin' great man, now what the fuck are we
 supposed to do?  We're in some real pretty shit now man [...] That's it man, 
 game over man, game over!  What the fuck are we gonna do now?  What are we
 gonna do?" - Hudson
 
< After Ripley rescues the remaining troops with the APC and suggests that
  they nuke the site from orbit, Burke tries to stop this plan >
"Hey maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but we just got
 our ASSES kicked pal!" - Hudson
 
< Hudson asks Vasquez if she's ever been mistaken for a man, to which she
  replies... >
"No, have you?" - Vasquez
 
< Ripley responds to Burke's reservations about nuking the alien-infested
  site >
"They can BILL me!" - Ripley
 
"Dear Lord Jesus, this can't be happenin' man, this isn't happenin..." - Hudson
 
< Hicks says that there won't be any rescue attempt made for another 17 days >
"17 days?!  Hey man, I don't want to rain on your parade, but we're not gonna 
 last 17 hours against those things!" - Hudson 
 
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." - Bishop
 
"Another glorious day in the Corps. A day in the Marine Corps is like a day
 on the farm. Every meal a banquet, every paycheque a fortune, every formation
 a parade. I love the Corps!" - Apone
 
< After Gorman says, "Hicks, meet me at the south lock. We're coming in." >
[sarcastically] "He's coming in. I feel safer already." - Hudson
 
< Bishop says "I'm afraid I have some bad news." >
"Well that's a switch." - Hudson
 
"Get away from her you bitch!" - Ripley
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
< Ripley's looking for the alien >
"Don't be afraid, I'm part of the family." - Ripley
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
8. TECHNICAL PROBLEMS
 
_ALIEN_
 
- The "blurb" on the back of the movie box is wrong.  "...the crew of a
  commercial spaceship make an unscheduled landing on a barren and desolate
  planet for engine repairs."   The landing was not unscheduled and they did 
  not land on the planet to make engine repairs, rather to investigate the 
  distress beacon.
 
_ALIENS_
 
- After the Sulaco arrives at LV-426, a computer screen displays the last
  names and first initials of each of the crew members.  Hudson isn't on the
  list.
 
- Adding up the estimated time that Bishop makes (for getting the drop ship
  down to the planet) gives a total of 180 minutes (3 hours), however the
  fusion reactor is not going to blow up for another 4 hours.  Ripley says
  "It's going to be close..."  but they actually have a full hour to clear
  the base.  [not NECESARRILY a technical problem, but it could be]
 
- In the LD version of aliens, during those split-seconds the camera is NOT
  on the queen during the fight between Ripey and her, pay attention to
  bishop.  In one shot, you can clearly see the hole that Lance Henriksen is
  standing in (to hide the other half of his body) to give the effect of 
  being ripped in two.
 
- In the battle scene between Ripley and the mother alien where Ripley is in
  the loader, we see the alien pull the loader into the airlock when Ripley
  tries to drop it.  The loader is turned upside down and the cone on top with
  the spinning yellow caution light is broken when it slams into the floor.  In
  the next scene, however, we see the loader lying on the floor of the airlock
  with the yellow cone still in one piece.  Also, the sharp end of the alien
  tails seems to be missing, as if it broke off, but the broken part isn't on
  the airlock floor.
 
- When Bishop gets it from the mother alien, you can see the string
  pulling the stinger through the dummy.
 
- The Pulse rifles are using "standard armor piercing explosive tip, caseless"
  [Gorman, Aliens] and yet when one is fired, you see shells flying out of it
  if you look carefully.
 
- In order to take a space ship from Earth, to another planet, the Sulaco MUST
  travel faster than light.  Given this technology, it seems unlikely that the
  military would not use it to make weapons that are better than the
  conventional "slug throwers".
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
- Many instances where you can see the "outline" created by the blue screening
  technique.
 
- The "furnace" that Ripley falls into at the end is WAY off scale, it was 
  just too big!
 
- The Cryo capsules seen in the escape pod in _ALIEN^3_ are the same design
  as those seen in _ALIEN_ which is a DIFFERENT design than the capsules seen
  in the Sulaco in _ALIENS_.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
9. TRIVIA
 
_ALIEN_
 
- _ALIEN_ grossed $ 40,300,000.00
 
- The first half of the movie was based on original ideas and a script entitled
  "Memories" by Dan O'Bannon, the second half originated from the idea of
  gremlins on a B-17 bomber, transposed to a spaceship. [source: _ALIEN_ box
  set]
 
- It has been suggested that _ALIEN_ is a rip-off from from an A.E. van Vogt
  short story entitled "Discord in Scarlet".
 
- The ship is called "Nostromo".  This is the name of a novel by Joseph Conrad.
  Ridley Scott's first major film, _The Duellists_ was based on a Joseph 
  Conrad short story.  [Perhaps Scott's trademark is a subtle reference to
  Conrad in all of his films?]
 
- The alien's habit of laying eggs in the stomach (which then burst out) is
  similar to the life-cycle of the tsetse fly.
 
- The images that the computers display during the Nostromo's separation from
  the Mother ship (as well as some images used near the end where Ripley is 
  setting up the escape pod to blast off) are re-used in _Blade Runner_ (also
  directed by Ridley Scott)
 
- Only John Hurt and the camera crew knew exactly what was going to happen
  during the chest-bursting scene.  The actors' only clue as to what was 
  going to happen was from what they read in the script, so reactions are
  genuine.
 
- In the scene from ALIEN where Dallas, Kane and Lambert are leaving the
  ship, the actual actors walking past the Nostromo's landing struts are 3
  children (two of which were Ridley Scott's children) dressed in scaled down
  spacesuits. This has the effect of making the ship look even bigger.
 
- Watch the scene where Kane gets attacked by the facehugger frame-by-frame.
  You'll see (through Kane's eyes) the facehugger jump out of the egg, 
  attach itself to his helmet, break through the glass shielding and stick
  a tube down his throat.
 
- An over-turned ice cube tray is on the side of Ash's motion tracking device
  was an ice-cube tray.
 
- A sex scene between Dallas and Ripley (!) was in the script, however was
  not filmed. [source: _ALIEN_ box set]
 
- The front (face) part of the alien costume's head is made from a real human
  skull. [source: _ALIEN_ box set]
 
- Although it has nothing to do with _ALIEN_, Sigourney Weaver's real name
  is Susan Alexandra. [source: Who is Who in America, 47th Edition]
 
- A good deal of the music that Jerry Goldsmith wrote for Alien never made it 
  into the movie.  Several tracks on the CD soundtrack don't appear in the
  film, and most of them that are in the movie apparently weren't used in the
  scenes they were written for, judging from track titles.  The movie uses
  some classical music, plus music from an earlier Jerry Goldsmith score 
  entitled "Freud." 
 
< the next two points are quoted from the Blade Runner FAQ with permission >
 
- Notice that both _Alien_ and BladeRunner have "artificial persons", and
  there is ambiguity as to who is/was a real human.  _Alien_ and BR are
  perfectly compatible, the only problem being that Ash should have been a
  replicant, as opposed to a robot.
 
- When Deckard enters his apartment at the end, the background hum is the same
  distinctive hum as in parts of _ALIEN_.
 
_ALIENS_
 
- "...It was [Jenette] Goldstein's (Vasquez) outside that needed an
  overhaul, largely because blue eyes and Huck Finn-style freckles didn't
  quite fit the job description.  'The makeup took an HOUR,' she sighs.
  'The makeup woman said I had the most ornery freckles she had ever
  seen.'...They also gave her dark contact lenses, and rather
  unceremoniously, whacked off most of her waist-length hair."
  [from STARLOG #115, Feb.1987]
 
- "The introduction to the marines, [...], as they awoke from hyper space
  and gnawed on breakfast, was filmed at the production's end.  That way,
  the cast had several months to get acquainted."  [from STARLOG #115,
  Feb.1987]
 
- "Loco" is written on the back of Vasquez's shirt.  [from STARLOG #115,
  Feb.1987]
 
- Goldstein : "'It's never mentioned in the film, but in the characters'
  background, she and Drake are recruited from juvenile prison, where
  they're under life sentences.
  'Therefore, they were different from the others, who were on a time
  limit.  Hudson was supposed to get out of the marines in four weeks,
  which is what made him flip.'
  That also explains the back of Hudson's vest, tailored by actor Bill
  Paxton to read, 'Contents under pressure.  Do not puncture.'"
  [from STARLOG #115, Feb.1987]
 
- Ferro has "(Fly the Friendly Skies)" written on her helmet.
 
- On the side of the first drop ship is an insignia of an eagle with big
  sneakers on, sort of completing a jump. Just above this is the text "Bug
  Stompers" and just below is "We endanger species". 
 
- The second drop ship is called "Smart Ass" and just below is
  "We aim by P.F.M." (ie: Pure Fucking Magic)
 
- "Adios" is painted on Vasquez's smart gun.
 
- The smart guns used by Drake and Vasquez are mounted on them via set of
  hydraulic arms. These arms take most of the load of the guns and keep them
  stable. Virtually the same technology is used by camera men on outside
  broadcasts, where they are used to keep the cameras steady. The hydraulics
  absorb most of the energy created by a camera man running down the road
  leaving a very steady picture.
 
- An ammunition clip for the M41-A pulse rifle holds 95 rounds.
 
- The mechanism used to make the facehuggers thrash about in the stasis tubes
  in the science lab came from one of the "flying piranahs" in one of James
  Cameron's earlier movies:  Piranah II - The Spawning.  It took 9 people to 
  make the face hugger work, one person for each leg and someone for the tail.
 
- Hicks was originally played by actor James Remar, but Michael Biehn 
  replaced him a few days after principal photography began, due to "artistic
  differences" between Remar and Cameron.
 
- Partly as a joke and partly to leave the ending open for subsequent sequels,
  James Cameron added the sound of an egg opening/face hugger scuttling about
  at the end of the film credits.  (different sounds were appended to
  different versions of the movie)
 
- "She thought they said 'illegal aliens' and signed up..." - Hudson 
  This quote (directed towards Vasquez) was in "inside joke" to the actors
  of the movie.  (quoted without permission from an interview with Jeanette
  Goldstein [Vasquez] that appeared in STARLOG magazine)  
 
   ''...she answered an ad for a film role in the local trades.  It
     read simply, "Genuine American actors, British Equity, for
     feature film, ALIENS, 20th Century Fox," she relates, over lunch
     near the old homestead in Beverly Hills.
        "I had seen ALIEN, but I had NO idea this was a sequel.
     It had been so long ago, it didn't even occur to me.
        "I thought it was about actual aliens, you know,
     immigrants to a country.  I was wondering why they wanted
     Americans.  I figured the movie was about lots of different
     immigrants to England."
        Since she didn't have an agent at the time, she answered
     the ad on her own, with rather surprising results.  "I actually
     came in wearing high heels and lots of makeup, and I had
     waist-length hair," she says.
        Other auditioners, who had advance notice from THEIR
     agents, were decked out in military fatigues --- Goldstein's
     first inkling she would be reading for the role of a marine...''
 
- One track of music from Goldsmith's CD for _ALIEN_ appears near the end of
  _ALIENS_, during one of the big scenes of the Queen stomping around the
  colony.  Even though this music was used in _ALIENS_, Goldsmith's name was
  not mentioned in the closing credits.
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
There were at least 12 "scripts" for _ALIEN^3_ (derived from the May 1992
issue of PREMIERE) :
	
	1. William Gibson wrote his based on a brief treatment given to
	him by Walter Hill, David Giler and Gordon Carroll.  It was set
	in a Soviet space station ("It was sort of like a Cold War in
	space, with genetic manipulation of the alien replacing nuclear
	war," says Gibson).  The 1987 writers strike interrupted the
	process, so Gibson went back to work on a novel.  "Only one
	detail survived. 'In my draft, this woman has a bar code on the
	back of her hand,' he says.  'In the shooting script, one of the
	guys has a shaved head and a bar code on the back of his head.
	I'll always privately think that was my piece of ALIEN^3.'"
 
	2. Eric Red was hired for a "five-week" job to convince Fox to
	dole out more development money.  He collaborated with Renny
	Harlin.  According to Red, "HE came up with the gene-splicing
	idea.  'In the third film, you needed a new alien.  I suggested
	doing genetic experiments on the alien.'  Red says that Hill and
	Giler were disorganized and irresponsible.  'They had no story
	or treatment or any real plan for the picture,' he says.  Hill
	and Giler say the problem was Red's script; when Harlin read it,
	he quit the project."
 
	3 - 4. David Twohy had a draft set in a penal colony in space
	without Ripley in it (since Hill and Giler planned to bring her
	back in the fourth film).  But Joe Roth (head of Fox) insisted
	that he wouldn't make the film without Weaver.  Twohy had just
	started to write Ripley into the script, when "one of the most
	transparent bits of studio treachery I've ever heard of" took
	place.  At the same time Twohy was working, Fox hired Vincent
	Ward to collaborate with John Fasano to develop the script
	involving a community of monks (remember the seven dwarfs?).
	When a Los Angeles Times reporter called Twohy about "competing
	drafts of Alien^3", Twohy dumped the script and went off to do
	his own film.  Fox insisted that Ward's script was for Alien 4.
 
	Twohy: The old adage is true: Hollywood pays its writers well
	but treats them like shit to make up for it.
 
	5 - 9. Greg Pruss was hired next to rewrite Fasano's script (he
	had to leave to cowrite ANOTHER 48 HRS).  Pruss did "five arduous
	drafts".  Everyone moved to London where the crew was already
	beginning to design and build sets even as the script was being
	written.  But the studio began having trouble with Ward, "who
	was less interested in Ripley or the alien than in his monks.
	'The movie's called ALIEN because it's about the alien,' says
	Pruss.  'I couldn't get that across to Vincent.'"
 
	10. Pruss quit and Ward was fired.  Once David Fincher signed on
	as director, Fox hired Larry Ferguson(Beverly Hills Cop II) to
	do a "four-week emergency rewrite."  Ferguson continued more or
	less with Ward's ideas and hence, the horrible idea with the
	seven dwarfs and Ripley as Wendy.  Weaver and Fincher hated the
	script and the movie "almost fell apart".
 
	11. Hill and Giler were paid to do another emergency rewrite.
	They moved the story back to Twohy's prison and the religious
	element evolved into what exists in the final draft.  The studio
	and Weaver liked the script but Fincher had a few reservations.
 
	12. After much bureaucratic bickering over the budget and
	schedule plus the firing of key participants, Rex Pickett was
	hired to collaborate with Fincher for yet another rewrite.  This
	occurred when Hill and Giler were going on vacation.  "It all
	blew up when Pickett wrote a memo salvaging Hill and Giler's
	script."  
 
- Prior to its release, _PREDATOR II_ came out in the theaters (which had an
  almost identical story to the original idea for _ALIEN^3_) near the end of
  _PREDATOR II_ we see a trophy case of different skulls, one of which is the
  skull of an alien.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
10. PLOT PROBLEMS AND LOOPHOLES
 
This section contains plot problems that are SO BIG that there is no plausible
explanation for it.  If a good theory comes along, the point will be moved to
section [11] frequently asked questions (at my discretion of course).
 
_ALIEN_
 
- The shuttle on the Nostromo only had one hypersleep chamber; there isn't
  enough capacity for the entire crew.  If we are to assume that the Narcissus
  is only a shuttle, then why is there no form of "escape" from the Nostromo?
 
_ALIENS_
 
- What infantry platoon in its right mind would enter an enclosed space
  carrying flamethrowers?
 
- What kind of pilot would leave her aircraft wide open and unguarded in an
  unsecured area?  (referring to the first dropship)
 
- Several times we see aliens spewing acid that does not seem to damage the 
  "sets" (or at least doesn't damage the "sets" as severely as the few drops
  that eat through 3 layers of the Nostromo in _ALIEN_)
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
- How did the eggs get on the Sulaco?  (refer to section [12])
 
- Why is the escape capsule so poorly designed?  It gets ejected and then
  FALLS to the nearest planet.  The capsule crashes on the planet and Hicks
  is impaled by a SAFETY beam?!
 
- How could Ripley hold on to the chestbuster AFTER it tore through her
  chest?
 
- Why did it take so long for the chestbuster to come out of Ripley?  It only
  took a few hours for it to come out of Kane in _ALIEN_.  Even though Ripley
  was carrying a queen, the chestbuster itself was STILL the same size as the
  one that came out of Kane.
 
- Why is that bloody autopsy necessary? As we see later in the movie, that
  nice diagnostic scanner in the EEV's cryo-tube is still working quite
  fine (and Ripley knows about it). The autopsy is obviously very
  unpleasant for her, so it is hard to see why she didn't figure out the
  easier way?
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
11. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 
This section has been extended to allow for theoretical answers, the responses
that aren't based on solid facts (yet provide a plausible answer) start with
"[possibly]".  If you believe you have a better explanation, don't hesitate to
say so.  Any questions that seem to have more than one plausible answer will
appear in section [12] frequently discussed topics.
 
_ALIEN_
     
Q: Is there a fan club I can join?
A: Depending on when you read this FAQ, these clubs may have dissolved:
    The British Aliens Fan Club             The Dropship
    PO Box 11                               19 Compton Crescent
    Liskeard, Cornwall                      Northolt, Middx
    PL14 6YL                                UB5 5LS
    England                                 England
 
Q: What is the "Narcissus" ?
A: The Narcissus is the name of the shuttle Ripley uses to escape from the 
   Nostromo.  
 
Q: Who is the "Space Jockey"?
A: This is the name given (by the technical staff) to the remains of the 
   creature found on the derelict space craft.
 
Q: What is written on Brett's cap?
A: USCSS NOSTROMO 180286
 
Q: Why is there a "self-destruct button" on the Nostromo?
A: [possibly] the "emergency destruct system" exists to protect company
   secrets in case the Nostromo is hijacked by a competator.  (this would be
   a similar principle to espionage: when an enemy spy gets caught, he takes
   poison to kill himself so he cannot be tortured into giving away secrets).
   Or, a 20 million ton ship flying through space at very high speed tends to
   become a great danger when it gets off course by some malfunctions. If it's
   on collision course to some space station or colony, and there is no
   possibility of redirecting or stopping it, it would be very reasonable to
   put it on self-destruct and get away with the small shuttle. 
 
Q: The crew is awakened early out of their hypersleep to explore the planet
   from which the beacon is being transmitted, HOW early are they awakened?
A: 10 months as indicated by Lambert (after the shuttle returns to the 
   Nostromo)
 
Q: Did the entire crew go down to the surface of LV-426?
A: Yes.  The Nostromo is a towing device for the 20,000,000 tons of ore.  
   The entire crew went down to the planet's surface in the Nostromo (which
   detached itself from the cargo it was towing).
 
Q: After the Nostromo blew up, and Ripley discovers that the alien is on board
   the escape capsule, why does the alien take SO long to attack her?
A: [possibly] the alien was coming to the end of its life cycle, when Ripley
   happened to disturb it.  It was slow to attack because it was dyig.  This
   theory is supported by an older version of the _ALIEN_ script where Ash
   reveals that the alien had made a nest and ensured the continutation of its
   species (cocooned Dallas and transformed Brett into an egg) at which
   time the alien itself would approach the end of its lifecycle; curl up and
   die.
 
Q: Does the alien have eyes?  How does it see?
A: No.  The alien was designed (by H.R. Giger) to "see" entirely by instinct.
   The chase scene in _ALIEN^3_ would appear to contradict this as it shows
   the chase through (what would appear to be) the alien's eyes.  However,
   it is likely that this cinematic technique was used to show the chase, not
   through the aliens eyes, but through its "perception".  (it is also likely
   that this alien, being so different from the ones we've already seen, has
   some kind of eyes)
 
Q: I want a longer version of the movie, dammit!
A: Easy.  You'll need a laserdisc player with frame advance, a 4-head VCR with
   frame advance (frame advance allows for nice editing), the _ALIEN_ box set
   (on laser disc of course) and a 160 min tape (130 min might work too).  
   Now, all you need is to know where the "extra" scenes (on the 3rd disk) can
   be re-added into the movie:
      - Kane prepares breakfast - don't bother, there's a fade between the 
        hypersleep chamber and the breakfast scene... this is where you'd 
        place the scene, but the fade makes it impossible to do a good job.
      - Crew listens to alien transmission - right after Parker agrees to going
        down to the planet's surface, and right before the shot of the ship 
        approaching the planet.
      - Lambert confronts Ripley - some of the scene already exists, just cut
        THAT part out, and replace it with the longer scene.
      - After the acid - add this scene right after Dallas tells Brett to get
        back to work, and right before the scene where Parker and Brett are 
        repairing the ship.
      - Ripley radios Parker - Add this right after the "post-acid" scene.
        Place it right before the scene where Parker and Brett are repairing
        the ship.
      - Discussion of what to do (after Kane's death) - originally, this scene
        was right before Kane's funeral, but it makes alot more sense to put
        it in immediately AFTER Kane's funeral.
      - Brett's death - difficult to place, you have to replace some of the 
        film, all you miss out on is a few cuts back to Jones.  (if you're
        really skilled, you can re-integrate them).  Put it right before the
        scene where Parker is drinking coffee.  [WARNING: the suspense
        building music is not present in the longer death scene]
      - Alien in the airlock - don't bother with these two scenes, they don't
        fit in the movie very well.
      - Ripley talks to Lambert - add it as Ash walks out of the room (after
        Dallas's death).  But before Ripley looks at Lambert (you'll have to 
        cut that bit out.)
      - Lambert's death - too bad, there's no sound, don't add it in.
      - Cocoon scene - originally, it was after Ripley started running for the
        shuttle (no wonder it created a pacing problem).  If you add it in
        after she discovers Parker and Lambert's bodies, but before she starts
        running, then it doesn't affect the pacing.
   That's it.  The movie is now about 2 hrs and 8 minutes long.  I added on
   the original movie theater trailer at the end, just for kicks. 
 
Q: I recall seeing extra scenes in the movie when I saw it in the theaters, am
   I imagining things?
A: Probably.  However, during December 1978 a rough cut of _ALIEN_ was
   screened in London, England (it was 2 hours & 45 minutes long) and it
   included ALL of the completed "cut" scenes (as described earlier in the
   FAQ).
 
_ALIENS_
 
Q: What does "Sulaco" mean?  
A: "Sulaco" was the town in which most of Joseph Conrad's book entitled
   "Nostromo" took place.
 
Q: Is LV-426 also called "Acheron" ?
A: There doesn't seem to be any evidence of this in the movie, the name was
   given to the planet in the Alan Dean Foster novelization, the movie-comic
   as well as the RPG.
 
Q: What IS the name of the company?
A: The Weyland-Yutani Corporation.  It can be seen, mirror-reversed, on a
   blast shield after the discussion of the atmosphere processor blowing up.
   It's also on all beer cans in _ALIEN_ but is too small to see.  In _ALIEN^3_
   it is written on a computer screen in an extreme close-up near the end.  In
   the director's cut of _ALIENS_, during the additional footage of the colony
   (prior to the alien infestation) we see a logo of the company which reads:
 
                                Weyland-Yutani
                                 \    /\    /
                                  \  /  \  /
                                   \/    \/
                            Building Better Worlds
 
 
Q: What is the name of the colony?
A: Hadley's Hope (as revealed in the director's cut of _ALIENS_)
 
Q: Why don't the colonists on LV-426 pick up the derelict SOS?
A: In a cut scene from ALIENS, the derelict ship has been damaged by volcanic
   activity and, as a result, the beacon was rendered inoperable.  [James
   Cameron, STARLOG #125, DEC 1987]
 
Q: How did the colony get infected?
A: In my [James Cameron] version of the Alien life cycle, the infestation of
   the colony would proceed like this :
   1. Russ Jorden attacked, they radio for rescue.
   2. Rescue party investigates ship...several members facehuggered...
      brought back to base for treatment.
   3. Several "chestbursters" free themselves from hosts, escape into
      ducting, begin to grow.
   4. Extrapolating from entomology (ants, termites, etc.), an 
      immature female, one of the first to emerge from hosts, grows to
      become a new queen, while males become drones or warriors.  
      Subsequent female larvae remain dormant or are killed by males...
      or biochemically sense that a queen exists and change into males
      to limit waste.  The Queen locates a nesting spot (the warmth
      of the atmosphere station heat exchanger level being perfect for
      egg incubation) and becomes sedentary.  She is then tended by 
      the males as her abdomen swells into a distended egg sac.  The
      drones and warriors also secrete a resinous building material to
      line the structure, creating niches in which they may lie dormant
      when food supplies and/or hosts for further reproduction become
      depleted (i.e. when all the colonists are used up).  They are
      discovered in this condition by the troopers, but quickly emerge
      when new hosts present themselves.
   [STARLOG #125, DEC 1987]
 
Q: Is Ferro's first name "Mira" ?
A: No, according to the on-board computer on the Sulaco, Ferro's first name
   starts with a "C".  The confusion with her name is caused by Vasquez when
   she says (to Ferro):  [...hey mira, who's Snow White?]  However, in 
   Spanish (Vasquez is Mexican), "mira" means "look", so Vasquez is actually
   saying, "hey look, who's Snow White?".
 
Q: How many colonists are there?
A: There were 158 colonists on LV-426 [...you were responsible for the deaths
   of 157 colonists...  Ripley (Aliens)] plus Newt.  This number is also 
   visible on a sign that was on-screen during the scene where Newt's parents
   are going out to the derelict craft (director's cut only).
 
Q: How many aliens where on LV-426 when the marines arrived?
A: [possibly] around 156.  (Newt was still alive and at least one of the other
   colonists hadn't been chest-busted yet)  There has been some suggestions
   that the colonists had livestock that the aliens could've infected as well
   (raising the number of aliens to an indeterminant amount) however there is
   no evidence of livestock anywhere in the movie; furthermore, the planet
   does not seem to be a habitat in which live stock could survive (there was
   no vegetation on the planet).
 
Q: Why did Ripley risk life and limb to save Newt, but didn't give a second
   thought to Dietrich and Apone?
A: In the theatrical version of the movie, it can be said that Ripley knew
   exactly where Newt was because of the locater band she was wearing, thus
   making rescue of Newt plausible.  
   A better reason exists, however it was cut from the theatrical release; the
   scene where Ripley discovers that her daughter has died of old age (refer
   to section [4] on cut scenes) reveals to us that her daughter was relatively
   the same age as Newt the last time Ripley was with her.  We can see the 
   parallels between Newt and the daughter that Ripley had lost. 
 
Q: How can Ripley hang on during violent vacuum decompression while the much
   stronger alien queen can't?!
A: Ripley had her arm wrapped around a step in the ladder where as the queen
   only had a finger-hold on Ripley's boot, when Ripley's boot slipped off
   her foot, the queen had nothing else to hold onto.
 
Q: Why does Ripley attempt to climb out of the pit after the queen has been 
   "vacuumed" out of the Sulaco?  Why doesn't she just close the doors?
A: [possibly] Ripley thought that the lower door in the pit would be damaged
   with the acidic blood of the queen alien, so she had to close the top doors
   in order to seal up the breech.  (this explanation is from the
   novelization)
 
Q: Why doesn't anyone stay on board the Sulaco?
A: [possibly] the Sulaco is so automated that it would be unnecessary.  If 
   another dropship was required, the station on LV-426 was equipped to 
   remote-pilot it down.  (however, they had no idea that the equipment had
   been ruined by the aliens)  
 
Q: How has Newt survived all this time?  The aliens seem to have no problem 
   getting around in the air ducts?
A: She can crawl through the air ducts that the aliens can't fit into.  This,
   combined with her knowing the air ducts so well, could keep her out of the
   aliens' grasp (perhaps the aliens knew about her, but just couldn't catch
   her).  In the director's cut, Newt boasts to her brother that the reason
   she wins their version of "hide-and-seek" is because she can get into all
   those tiny crooks and crannies where no one can reach her.
 
Q: How does the queen know how to use an elevator, and how does she know what
   floor to get off at?
A: The elevator returns automatically to the level of the platform Ripley got
   off at.  When she leaves the elevator (to find Newt) you see it returning
   up.  She comes back (with Newt) and calls both elevators.  Ripley takes 
   the first one that arrives and it starts going up.  The queen gets in the 
   second elevator and it automatically goes up.  
 
Q: Are those power-loaders real?
A: Based on the Collectors Version of Aliens on Laserdisc, which comes with a
   disk that shows some of the secrets of the making of the movie, the loader
   is part real, part fake.  The actual loader is real, but has an external
   power supply.  Since the loader is extremely heavy, it is supported by
   cables which are masked out for the final print.  
 
_ALIEN^3_
 
Q: What is the "dreaded" seven-dwarf concept for the _ALIEN^3_ script?
A: One of the earlier stages of the _ALIEN^3_ script received alot of
   heat:
   ''...Back in New York, [Walter] Hill saw "The Navigator : An Odyssey
     Across Time", a stunning but esoteric art film by an obscure New Zealand
     director named Vincent Ward.  But Ward said he didn't like [David] 
     Twohy's script.  No problem, said Fox.  "So I hopped on an airplane,"
     says Ward," and during the flight, I had an idea that was totally
     different: Sigourney would land in a community of monks in outer space
     and not be accepted by them."  The monks would live on a wooden planet
     that looked like something out of Hieronymus Bosch, with furnaces and
     windmills -- and no weapons...
 
     FINCHER : In the draft Larry [Ferguson, Beverly Hills Cop II] was
     writing, she [Ripley] was going to be this woman who had fallen from
     the stars.  In the end, she dies, and there are seven of the monks
     left --- seven dwarfs. 
 
     Q : You're kidding?
 
     FINCHER : Seriously.  I swear to God.  She was like...what's her name
     in Peter Pan?  She was like Wendy.  And she would make up these stories.
     And in the end, there were these seven dwarfs left, and there was this
     fucking tube they put her in, and they were waiting for Prince Charming
     to come wake her up.  So that was one of the endings we had for this
     movie.  You can imagine what Joe Roth said when he heard this.  "What?!
     What are they doing over there?!  What the fuck is going on?!" ''
   [PREMIER magazine, May '92]
     
Q: How did the face-huggers get on the Sulaco?
A: The truly factual answer is that the audience wasn't supposed to question
   it.  Use your imagination.  (several theories exist, some of which are 
   stated in section [12] frequently discussed topics)
 
Q: Did the little face-hugger critter actually do so much damage to the
   Sulaco that the ship decided to EJECT the hypersleep capsules?
A: Shown at the start of the movie was a face hugger jumping on a cryo-tube,
   cracking the glass and dripping some acid on the floor.  The acid manages
   to eat its way into the electrical system and cause a fire.  The Sulaco
   then ejected the hypersleep capsules (probably because it couldn't put
   out the fire).
 
Q: I remember seeing a trailer for _ALIEN^3_ that was really different than 
   the movie?
A: This is true.  Quite awhile before _ALIEN^3_ was finally released, there
   was a "coming soon" trailer shown in several theaters.  This trailer 
   indicated that some aliens made it to Earth and there was going to be a
   massive encounter.  Later on, the writers ditched the movie idea upon
   release of Predator II (due to the similarity in plot) and decided to find
   a new story for _ALIEN^3_.
 
Q: There's a prison planet: is anyone really going to spend money on
   hideously expensive space travel in order to send these guys to some far-off
   solar system?
A: [possibly] Historically, extremely dangerous and/or subversive-to-the-
   government criminals have been shipped off (at great expense) to a new
   location quite often.  England regularly shipped off prisoners to
   one of the American colonies (Georgia?  South Carolina?) which was a
   designated prison colony, as well as Australia -- a prison
   *continent*.  The progression of the Western legal system has been to
   appeal numerous times (at great expense) to avoid death penalties.
   The Company in the Alien series is a reasonable outgrowth from the
   rest of Western business, why not the legal system, too?  They avoid
   the massive cost of incarceration and court and lawyer fees from
   appeals by not having a death penalty, but shipping the prisoners off
   to a "prison".
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article: 15232
Newsgroups: alt.cult-movies,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,news.answers
From: [email protected] (Darryll S H Hobson)
Subject: MOVIES: ALIEN FAQ
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: University of Alberta Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 00:56:37 GMT
 
Posting-Frquency: approx. every 2 months
Archive-name: movies/alien-faq/part3
Version: 1.6
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&                                                                            &
&                         ALIEN, ALIENS and ALIEN^3                          &
&                                                                            &
&                 Information and Frequently Asked Questions                 &
&                                                                            &
&                               Version 1.6                                  &
&                                                                            &
&                               PART 3 of 3                                  &
&                                                                            &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 
 
12. FREQUENTLY DISCUSSED TOPICS
 
This section is intended for frequently asked questions that have many diverse
theories and explanations.  I've included some of the more plausible theories
given for some of the topics.  Wherever possible, I tried to group the "for"
and "against" cases.
 
* In _ALIEN_, how does the company know about the aliens anyway, and how
* much do they know, and why don't they send a well trained scientific
* "collection" team ?
 
- They knew about the aliens from the beacon signal that was picked up by
  another space craft, maybe off course and with some technical problems so
  that they could not investigate it themselves, or maybe it was picked up
  by some automatic exploration vessel. Back on earth they had enough
  computer power to unscramble it (remember that "Mother" couldn't unscramble
  it completely). And probably sending a ship out into deep space isn't an
  every day's job in that time, too, so they just ordered the next ship that
  was to come nearby to go there and investigate (They must have known about
  the aliens before the Nostromo started because they sent Ash on board).
- They did not know everything about the aliens and just wanted to see what
  happens ("crew expendable"), and Ash was supposed to store all information
  in the computer (Ash gives us a few details about the aliens, but he does
  not necessarily know everything from the start, he might have gathered
  some things from what he has already seen on the Nostromo). Later, when
  the Nostromo had returned to earth with it's autopilot, they could first
  remote-access the computer and then, with all the information, decide
  how to get out the alien eggs (or whatever was found to be there). In
  that case they would have only lost 6 employees and perhaps an expensive
  android.
 
* Near the beginning of _ALIENS_ when Ripley is at the inquiry, one of the 
* company executives at the table estimates the value of the Nostromo at 
* "42 million in adjusted dollars".  Surely a ship as large as the Nostromo
* is worth more than 42 million ?
 
- In "adjusted dollars" suggests many things. One, that *A* dollar has been
  adjusted from a previous dollar. And assuming that this is not very far into
  the future, this previous dollar was most probably the U.S. dollar. It
  suggests that the value of the dollar was readjusted in much the same way as
  the currencies in some developing countries like Mexico have been adjusted
  to take into account rampant inflation. 
- "adjusted dollars" could refer to the original value of the ship translated
  to what it would be worth at the present day.  Perhaps the Nostromo is a 
  common ship that has seen mass-production and it's just not worth all that
  much.  This is not unrealistic as we know that ore is mined in tremendous 
  quantities (20,000,000,000 tonnes were being hauled by the Nostromo in 
  _ALIEN_) so the resources are readily available and we can assume that, with
  increased space travel, a higher volume of space ships are being made. 
  (which, in turn, would lower the cost of assembly).
 
* In the 57 years between _ALIEN_ and _ALIENS_, why don't they try again
* to get some alien eggs?
 
- "The company" seems to be quite large, with several divisions.  Maybe the
  whole alien plan was just an idea of the bio-weapons division, and after
  the loss of the Nostromo the managment decided to give up because the risk
  was much higher than the possible profit. Then, during the following
  decades, they just forgot about it. Obviously Burke doesn't know about the
  aliens before he got Ripley's report.
- The bio-weapons division possibly started the whole thing without
  permission, and then, after the catastrophic failure (loss of an expensive
  space ship), they destroyed all information about it, and therefore the
  general managment never knew about it (This appears to be exactly the way
  Burke acts in _ALIENS_).
 
* Are we really to believe that, having lost contact with an entire colony,
* the Colonial Marines send a warship out with only ONE SQUADRON of soldiers?
 
- Possibly, Burke had a fair idea of what has happened on LV-426 so by
  sending a small number of soldiers, he was gambling that some would survive
  and bring (accidentally or not) an Alien back to Earth.
- The company may have assumed that the colony's transmitter broke down or
  the colony itself had suffered a horrible epidemic or just died out.  So 
  the possibility of actually needing more troops was considered to be small.
- Several times in the movie it was implied that this group of marines had
  been on these sort of "bug hunts" before (ie: the sign on the side of the
  first dropship: "Bug Stomper" and Hudson asking, "Is this gonna be another
  one of those bug hunts?" [Aliens])  They had been able to handle "bug
  hunts" with one squad before, so why send more this time?
- The squad had enough fire power to deal with the situation, if they had 
  been fully armed and ANYWHERE other than underneath the primary heat 
  exchange for their first confrontation (in that confined space) then they
  would've had no problem with defeating the aliens.
 
* Theories regarding the derelict space craft and its fossilized pilot (from
* the movie _ALIEN_).
 
- Perhaps the species that was transporting the eggs mirror the human errors
  of judgement (made mostly by the Company) that were to follow.  Perhaps
  this species, like the Company, thought they could lower their guard,
  treating the aliens like a commodity.  Maybe their now dead/mute state 
  indicates where the human race might be heading as a result of the company's
  "financial" venture.
- The species piloting the derelict craft were aware of the dangers of the 
  aliens, this is why they submersed the entire colony of eggs under the blue
  "film".  When the film is broken, it would trigger an alarm (sort of like
  a laser-operated security system) and they'd know that there was motion in
  the "cargo".
- Suggested by an old draft of the _ALIEN_ script:  the derelict craft landed
  on LV-426 to make repairs, a silo of eggs (on the planet) was discovered
  by the space jockey species and they got infested.  The hull full of eggs
  is in fact the crew of the derelict after being transformed into the eggs
  (as shown in the Brett-egg scene edited out of the _ALIEN_ theatrical
  release)
 
* Alien intelligence.  Although they have a large cranium, can they really
* "think"?
 
YES:
- In _ALIENS_, when Ripley is in the "hive", several aliens filter in to attack
  her; Ripley threatens to flame the eggs and the queen waves them off.  This
  would indicate that the aliens can communicate and ARE intelligent.
- The alien in _ALIEN^3_ acted to protect Ripley (since she was carrying the
  queen embryo) when the doctor was going to give her an injection and when
  Dillon grabbed her (near the end).  This would indicate that the alien can
  reason through situations.
- The aliens in _ALIENS_ cut the power to the complex.  (unless this was just
  an "accident")
- A quote from James Cameron [STARLOG #125, DEC 1987] 	
    " One admittedly confusing aspect of this creature's behavior
      (which was unclear as well in ALIEN) is the fact that sometimes the
      warrior will capture prey for a host, and other times, simply kill it.
      For example, Ferro the dropship pilot is killed outright while Newt, and
      previously most of the colony members, were only captured and cocooned
      within the walls to aid in the Aliens' reproduction cycle.  If we assume
      the Aliens have intelligence, at least in the central guiding authority
      of the Queen, then it is possible that these decisions may have a
      tactical basis.  For example, Ferro was a greater threat, piloting the
      heavily armed dropship than she was a desirable host for reproduction.
      Newt, and most of the colonists, were unarmed and relatively helpless,
      therefore easily captured for hosting. "
NO:
- On several occasions, the aliens kill potential hosts when they could just
  as easily capture them.  (from _ALIEN_: Parker, Lambert.  from _ALIENS_:
  Ferro, possibly others.  from _ALIEN^3_: the doctor, several prisoners)
  this would indicate that the alien is not intelligent.  (unless the alien
  kills those people for food)
- The scene in the _ALIENS_ director's cut where the aliens "throw" themselves
  at the sentry guns would indicate that they are not intelligent (ie:
  sacrificing countless numbers just to get their hands on 7 potential hosts.)
 
* What does the alien use for energy, does it eat? if so what?
 
- The alien could work like a battery, using electricity for it's energy
  (suggested by the acid blood).  This idea is suggested by the RPG.
- The alien increases its mass greatly between its chestbuster and full-grown
  stages of development.  In order to do this it MUST eat something solid
  (perhaps: flesh, minerals, metals)
- H.R. Giger introduces the concept of a bio-mechanical species (notice how 
  the Space Jockey of _ALIEN_ was attached to/part of the machinery it was
  sitting at?)  If the aliens are part of Giger's bio-mechanical world then
  it's entirely possible that they could eat metal alloys to increase their
  mass.
- In an old draft of the _ALIEN_ script, when Ripley finds Dallas cocooned
  and the Brett-egg, she says to Dallas, "I'm going to get you out of here"
  and Dallas replies, "No, it's too late for me, the alien has eaten to much
  of me already...  see what it did to Brett?"
 
* What are those long, dark "spines" sticking out of the back of the alien?
 
- These spines could be functionally similar to the plates on the back
  of a Stegasaurus;  they make it difficult to land a damaging blow on the
  alien from a sneak-attack from behind.
- The spines could also be some form of reservoir for acid (similar to the
  humps on a camel).
- Perhaps they are heat sinks.
- They could be gills for breathing, like a fish, the alien probably doesn't
  breath the same air we do, so these "gills" would filter out the components
  that it needs from the environment around it.
 
* Do the aliens use their host's DNA to help them adapt to their host's 
* environment?
 
YES:
- An old draft of the _ALIEN_ script had Ash giving an extensive description
  of the alien creature.  Ash said that the alien that came from Kane was, 
  in a sense, Kane's child.  (this scene suggests that the aliens use the 
  host's DNA)
- The alien in _ALIEN^3_ was different than other aliens, perhaps this is
  because it came from a different host (the dog).
 
NO:
- A creature that is so different from conventional organic life could not
  possibly make sense out of a strand of DNA.
- In the original filmed version of _ALIEN^3_ the alien came from a cow, not
  a dog (the entire movie was filmed before they decided to change the "host"
  to a dog)  Since the alien didn't act like a cow (ie: this alien was more
  aggressive, however, a cow would be considered less aggressive than a 
  human) nor did the film makers originally base the alien's actions on those
  of a dog, this works against the DNA theory.  The "cow" scene is also
  supported by the novel by Alan Dean Foster [page 58].
 
* Is there a notion of "soldier" and "worker" aliens?
 
YES:
- The alien in _ALIEN^3_ seemed to act/look different than the aliens in
  the previous movies.  This alien could be a "worker" with the task of
  protecting the queen until she has a chance to mature.
  
NO:
- The aliens that were in the "hive" at the end of _ALIENS_ would likely
  be classified as "workers" however they stood upright and looked no
  different than the rest of the aliens (which would be considered
  "soldiers").
 
* Where do the aliens come from, were they genetically engineered?
 
- They could have been genetically engineered due to their (seemingly
  unnatural) ability to adapt to new environments.
- They could be bio-weapons on the basis of the fact that their parasitic
  nature is too violent and unsupportive of the host. An organism which
  destroys its habitat (in this case it's host, whatever kind of organism it
  is) would very quickly makes itself extinct.
- The aliens could be a parasite of the galaxy.  They serve as much purpose
  as a mosquito does on earth.
- If we maintain H.R. Giger's original idea of the alien eggs coming from an
  infection (a possibility that is explored in the Brett-egg scene cut from
  _ALIEN_), then the thousands of eggs on the derelict space craft in _ALIEN_
  could have come from some form of plague.
- It has been suggested (by Dark Horse comics) that the Predators created the
  aliens for hunting purposes.  
 
* Why is the alien in _ALIEN^3_ different than the other aliens we've seen?
 
- The alien species is similar to the hymenoptera (the class that ants, bees
  and termites belong to).  There is a queen who is tended by an army of
  female helpers.   There are occasoinal males in these insect societies,
  only they are short lived and are only necessary to fertilize a new queen.
  The alien in _ALIEN^3_ would be a male alien.  It is definately different
  looking -- perhaps a bit smaller (males in hymenoptera species are
  smaller.)  This makes sense in the context of _ALIEN^3_ in that Ripley is
  carrying a queen -- something HAS to fertilize it before it can reproduce.
- It's possible that the aliens copy some of their host's DNA in order to 
  help them adapt to the new environement that they'll be born to (this 
  concept was in an old draft of the script for _ALIEN_).  The alien would
  be different because it came from a dog.
 
* How did the eggs get on the Sulaco?
 
- When Bishop was preparing to crawl down the service tunnel to pilot the 
  dropship down, he told Ripley that it would take (in total) approx 3 hours.
  Earlier in the movie, it was established that the place was going to blow
  up in approx 4 hours.  This left Bishop an extra hour during which he 
  could have:  fetched 2 eggs and hidden them.  While Ripley was rescuing
  Newt, Bishop could've then returned to pick up the eggs and put them in the
  drop ship.  He'd then fly back to pick up Ripley and give some bogus story 
  to cover up why he was late.
- The queen laid eggs in the landing gear prior to getting out and tearing
  Bishop in half.
- Yet another theory is that the queen laid eggs on the Sulaco while Ripley
  was going to get the cargo lifter.  However, it doesn't seem that the
  queen's physiology would accomodate this AND it would be unlikely that she'd
  be able to lay the eggs in a well concealed place (such that Ripley wouldn't
  find them) during the split seconds that the camera is not on the queen.
- In Gibson's _ALIEN^3_ script, it is suggested that the queen "stings" Bishop
  with her tail, thus poisoning him.  While Bishop lies in his hypersleep 
  capsule, the poison genetically combines with his body and forms two eggs.  
  (notice when Ripley tries to repair Bishop, there is only his one arm and
  head remaining).  It is possible that Bishop observed the development of
  two eggs (from his body) then, when complete, opened the hypersleep chamber
  and (with his remaining arm) moved the egg out (so it could infect Ripley).
 
* In ALIEN^3:  Was the human Bishop (that appeared at the end of the movie) 
* really human or was he also an android?
 
YES:
- Some people have witnessed skin hanging down (some say it's his ear).  This
  would indicate that he's an android.  To further the issue, Bishop II takes
  a nasty hit in the side of the head, yet remains concious, it is unlikely
  that a human being would be able to shake off such an injury.
- The credits indicate that the character is named "Bishop II" as if to say it
  is just another copy of the same line of androids.
 
NO:
- "85" hit him in the side of the head and he started bleeding red blood
  (around his left ear).  Since the androids depicted in the trilogy have
  white blood, this Bishop is probably human.  (it is too speculative to
  theorize that the company has made a red-blooded android since _ALIENS_)
- Alan Dean Foster's novelisation of the movie suggests that he definitely
  is human and he bleeds badly when hit).
 
* I hated ALIEN^3.
 
YES:
- The "course" of the movie was "unrealistically" altered to fit with the
  script.  ie: in the first 5 minutes of the movie, we kill off two major
  characters, place alien eggs on the Sulaco and against-all-odds Ripley
  is the sole survivor of the crash.
- Although an important part of the series, Newt died for no discernable
  reason.
- Too many similarities between _ALIEN^3_ and _ALIEN_:
     * one alien stalks a group of weaponless people.
     * trapping the alien did not work, so let's try something else.
     * repair of a busted-up android.
- Depressing.  Ripley's life crumbles to an inevitable fate.  No happy 
  (or surprise) ending.
- Characters are flat, undeveloped and boring.  Nobody really CARES when
  the alien kills one.
- No attempt is made to explain MOST questionable events (How did the eggs
  get on the Sulaco?  Why is the alien different?)
- Ripley is an eye-sore with her shaven head and bloodshot eye.
- _ALIEN^3_ focussed on Ripley's misfortune-plagued life instead of the
  alien creature (as _ALIEN_ and _ALIENS_ had).
- Most North American movie critics did not like _ALIEN^3_.
 
NO:
- Just because a movie doesn't have a happy ending doesn't mean it's a bad
  movie.
- _ALIEN^3_ takes a different direction from the prior alien movies.  It is
  good that they didn't make an "_ALIENS_ with bigger guns" as most had
  expected.
- Artistic images were well defined.  The Newt autopsy scene showed almost
  NO graphic images, yet the audience was revolted by the vividness.  The
  graphic horror was not blatantly displayed on the screen, but projected 
  into the imagination of the audience.
- Since we don't know everything about the alien species, it's not difficult
  to accept that "by undisclosed means" the alien eggs got on the Sulaco and
  the alien creature was physically different.
- The interleaving of the credits and the movie scenes was visually 
  provocative.
- Many European critics did like _ALIEN^3_.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
13. MOVIE WATCHING RITUALS
 
This section is on probation; let's see if it can pick up some interest.
Basically, if you know of any rituals that you or your friends perform when
any one of the ALIEN movies is shown (ie: screaming things at the movie, 
acting out different parts, etc...) then they belong in this section.
 
- When repeatedly watching this film with friends, we've only really evolved
  one tradition when watching the film. When Burke has abandoned them, and
  opens the door, just to see the alien there, hissing at him, it has become
  somewhat traditional to shout "Let's eat Burke" repeatedly. Oh yeah, and
  when Newt falls into the water, it's fairly obvious that you have to shout
  "Behind you" fairly loudly.
 
- ALIEN: deep, impressed silence.
  ALIEN^3: loud, carthatic weeping.
 
- ALIENS: imitating Hudson's "game over MAN, game over!" as he says it in 
  the movie.  (and even when we're not watching the movie)
 
- leaping at the screen to get a four-inch-away view of the various types of
  military hardware to get more details about function and what props are
  made from (ie: the Flame units are slightly modified M-16 rifles)
 
- In Aliens, during Ripley's first nightmare at Gateway Station.  When she
  pulls back her shirt and sees the alien trying to poke through and then
  wakes up in horror, one of us HAS to say, "Damn Tacos!"
 
[more?]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
14. WHERE CAN I GET GIBSON'S ALIEN^3 SCRIPT?
 
What follows is a synopsis of Gibson's _ALIEN^3_ script, due to the immense
effort required to port the text from paper to computer, a special thanks goes
out to Steve Copold, the user who tackled the tedious and heinous task.  If 
there are ANY questions about the ALIEN^3 script, ask Steve, he's the guru
(not me).
 
Steve writes:
 
I've had my hands on a copy of William Gibson's original script for "Alien III"
for quite awhile now and it seems like a good time to contribute a synopsis
which may explain a few things (such as how the eggs were supposed to have
gotten onto the Sulaco), and may just add more confusion to others. I've been
very careful in preparing the synopsis to include as much detail as is
possible, including direct quotes, and still remain within the bounds of the
fair-use doctrine and copyright laws. (Everything encased in parentheses,
except for dialog notes, is my writing...Everything else is Gibson's.) If you
have questions about specific scenes that I've just outlined, e-mail me
([email protected]) and I'll try to give you more details.
 
Enjoy!
 
-Steve Copold
 
FADE IN:
 
DEEP SPACE - THE FUTURE
 
The silent field of stars -- eclipsed by the dark bulk of of an approaching
ship.
 
CLOSER.
 
ANGLE ON THE HULL
 
A towering cliff of metal, Sulaco.
 
(The script then cuts to an inside tracking shot of the hyper-sleep vault and
the line of open and empty capsules. We finally track across 4 closed capsules
- Newt, Ripley, Hicks, and finally Bishop. Bishop's capsule, however, is
covered with a "hothouse" mist and condensation.)
 
CLOSER
 
A tear of fluid streaks the condensation.
 
An alarm sounds.
 
A monitor begins to scroll data.
 
(We then hear the computer announcing that Sulaco has experienced a
navagational error and entered the territory of the U.P.P. [Union of
Progressive Peoples - A clear analogy for the late U.S.S.R. - A subplot which
probably contributed to the demise of this script.] We cut to an exterior shot
of the Sulaco and witness the approach of a UPP interceptor ship carrying
commandos. They dock with the Sulaco and board her. They enter the ship though
an airlock near the cargo bay. As they enter, they find Bishop's twisted and
tangled lower torso. They see the blast damage on the drop ship and exchange
knowing looks...It is apparent these are combat veterans. As the commandos
enter the hyper-sleep vault, the computer announces a security breach. They
move down the line of capsules and stop at Bishop's.)
 
INTERIOR HYPER-SLEEP VAULT - LEADER"S POV (point of view)
 
The chilly aisle of capsules.
 
Commandos move down the line, guns poised. They peer in at Newt, Ripley, and
Hicks, but the lid of Bishop's capsule is pearl white. (text deleted) The lid
rises. A dense pale mist flows out, spilling over the edges of the capsule,
revealing the ovoid of a gray alien egg. Rooted in the center of Bishop's
synthetic entrails, the egg instantly ejaculates a face-hugger, which strikes
the leader's faceplate in a spray of acid. (lots of text deleted)
 
(At this point, one of the other commandos, a young Vietnamese woman, attempts
to shoot the facehugger without killing the leader. Things go wrong and his
head is literally destroyed. They throw him out the airlock and leave with
Bishop's remains.)
 
DISSOLVE TO:
 
IN DEEP SPACE - VARIOUS ANGLES
 
A station the size of a small moon, and growing; unfinished sections of hull
are open to vacuum. A vast, irregular structure, the result of of the shifting
goals of succesive administrations.
 
(This is our introduction to Anchorpoint which serves as the setting for about
75% of Alien III. I see it as a cross between the Deathstar and Deep Space 9.
It is huge and well-used like the Deathstar, but it is by run civil
administrators and company reps, with only a military attache and a few troops.
Like DSN, it has shopping malls, schools, and the type of stuff associated with
a colony rather than a military base.
 
At this time we are introduced to Tully, a civilian lab technician, and the
station's ops officer, Jackson. Tully is written as sort of a malcontented
doctoral student. He's very smart, very good at his job, and has some degree of
contempt for authority. Jackson is a really neat character. She is a "tough
broad," much like Ripley, but carries none of the baggage that Ripley is
saddled with. They have a lengthy conversation at this point which sort of
brings the audience up to speed. I've included just a small portion.)
 
JACKSON
The Sulaco. Departed gateway four years ago with a compliment of fifteen. A
dozen marines, an android, a company representative, and the former warrant
officer of a merchant vessel...
 
TULLY
So?
 
JACKSON
So, the bio-readout gives us the warant officer, one -- count him -- marine,
and a nine-year-old girl. Makes you wonder what happened out there, doesn't it?
 
TULLY
So ask'em. Wake'em up and ask'em. Them not me.
 
JACKSON
But That's the GOOD news, Tully. Three hours before Sulaco turned up, we docked
a priority shuttle out of Gateway. Two passengers. Milisci, Tully. Weapons
Division.
 
TULLY
That the bad news?
 
JACKSON
They want the ship pulled in with full biohazard precautions, by
oh-eight-hundred hours. BioLab techs are priority for the deck squad. that's
you Tully.
 
The phone screen goes blank.
 
TULLY
(heartfelt) Shit!
 
(We are then introduced to Spence, who is I think Tully's girlfriend. That
part's not real clear as events overtake the issue very quickly from here on
out. The next five pages of script are dedicated to a WONDERFUL sequence of
scenes where Tully and other lab techs, accompanied by marines from Anchorpoint
are seen in an enormous docking bay where they board Sulaco. I'll put in the
last page of it here.)
 
SECOND MARINE
Yessir. Lights on in there.
 
The officer presses a button.
 
The door slides open. Bright white. The aisle. Empty. The row of capsules.
Tully's marine is first through the door, gun ready, slow, careful. Tully steps
in after him, raises his instrument, takes a sample.
 
INT. HYPER-SLEEP VAULT
 
The other two marines move past Tully. Soft scuff of their boots on the deck.
Tully doesn't know quite what to do. Lowers his sampler, hesitates, The first
marine reaches Newt's capsule. He lowers his rifle. (something startled, almost
gentle in his voice)
They're here...
 
Eight inches of razor-sharp serrated tail plunges out through the back of his
suit as he's lifted off his feet by something we can't see. Ugly RIPPING noise
as the alien withdraws its stinger (Gibson clearly refers to the tail as a
stinger at several points in the script) -- blood tidily contained by the
translucent membrane of the biohazard envelope.
 
The stinger of a second alien whips around the neck of one of the other two
marines; the alien is clinging to the ceiling. He screams. Tully's marine sags
against the foot of Ripley's capsule, his arm across the controls -- the green
indicator lights go out -- as the first alien lunges up into view.
 
CLOSE
 
On the jaws.
 
ANGLE ON RIPLEY
 
Her eyes snap open
 
RIPLEY'S POV
 
As the beast mounts her coffin, terminal nightmare.
 
ANGLE
 
RIPLEY
No-ooooooooooooooooooooo!
Her hands claw frantically at the smooth curve of the plastic canopy.
 
The remaining marine, crazy with adrenialine and terror, unleashes his flame
thrower. The first alien and Ripley's capsule vanish in a napalm fireball. the
marine spins, screaming incoherently, and liquid fire hoses the second alien,
which drops its victim and falls burning into the deck.
 
The vault is an inferno. Ripley's capsule is sagging, melting.
 
DISSOLVE TO:
 
(We see Ripley's damaged capsule being rolled into a very elaborate medlab and
doctors go to work on her. Then we cut to Hicks sitting on the edge of a
hospital bed in a dressing gown lighting a cigarette. Spence comes in and has a
brief conversation with him. He asks about Newt and Ripley and Bishop. She
tells him that Newt and Ripley are fine, and that she doesn't know who Bishop
is. Newt comes running in chased by an orderly. He grabs for Newt and Hicks
almost assaults him, but is stopped when Spence calls off the orderly. They
demand to see Ripley. Spence takes them to her room. She is in a deep coma)
 
NEWT
Is Ripley DREAMING?
 
SPENCE
I don't know honey.
 
NEWT
It's better not to.
 
CUT TO:
 
EXT. RODINA, THE U.P.P. STATION - VARIOUS ANGLES
 
Smaller than Anchorpoint
 
INT. RODINA - CYBERNETICS LAB
 
CLOSE on Bishop. He stares straight ahead, the corner of his mouth twitching
mechanically.
 
(The UPP scientists are downloading all of Bishop's data and are learning all
about the aliens. The young Vietnamese commando is present and confirms the
image of the facehugger -- They all stare in horror at the image of the adult
alien. The young woman shakes her head and says she has not seen this. The two
adults on the Sulaco are never explained and neither is the fact that the
capsules were left alone. There is a possibility that there may have been live
animals, or animals such as dogs on the Sulaco in hypersleep. This may account
for the adults as well as the dog thread in the screen version. Lab animals are
turned into aliens later in the Gibson script. The egg in Bishop's entrails is
explained in great detail.)
 
INT SULACO - CARGO LOCK
 
TECH WITH PROBE
You getting this on tape Miller?
 
SECOND TECH
You bet your ass. Orders.
 
TECH WITH PROBE
That's good because I'd swear I just saw a piece of this shit move...
 
On the monitor, the tip of the probe trembles, brushes one of the globules. The
second tech takes it, inserts it in a plastic tube, seals the tube in a small
metal cannister, and writes #17 on the side in red grease pencil.
 
SECOND TECH
Since when do androids get diseases?
 
TECH WITH PROBE
I dunno. Sure looks like something got to this poor bastard...
 
(This is a key scene in the script as it introduces the alien "spores" and
"DNA" samples which are capable of spreading the species like a disease. Even
androids can act as a host at least to the extent of producing a viable egg
with a facehugger inside. The effects on a living host are entirely different
as we'll see shortly.
 
At this point in the story, we are introduced to Col. Rosetti, local commandant
of the colonial marine detachment at Anchorpoint. We also meet Kevin Fox and
Susan Welles. They are the Weyland-Yutani scum-yuppies from the weapons
division sent by the company. They are real knock-offs of Burke, only not so
endearing...Yeeech! We also meet Shuman, the diplomat. He is involved now as
the UPP is making a stink about the Sulaco entering their space. The four of
them debrief Hicks in a "security bubble" and learn what he knows. They do not
tell him about the aliens found on the Sulaco. In the bubble we also meet
Trent, the head bio-geneticist at Anchorpoint. He quizzes Hicks about the
alien's life-cycle. They realize that Hicks doesn't know anything about the
genetic material they have discovered in the hyper-sleep vault. They also fail
to tell him they are experimenting with it and trying to clone it. They do tell
Hicks about the UPP grabbing Bishop.
 
At this point there is a complex and important scene in the Tissue Culture Lab
with Tully and Spence. It involves lots of high tech goodies and what would
have been some terrific CGI sequences as they examine the alien samples. It all
culminates with them looking #17 under extreme magnification we see the sample
brought into focus...)
 
EXTREME CLOSEUP - MONITOR
 
As the screen fills with an image that might be a bizzare landscape, its lines
and textures recalling the interior of the derelict ship in "ALIEN."
 
(This sequence is followed by a long set of scenes with Newt and Hicks as Newt
prepares to return to earth aboard the Sulaco which has been sterilized. Ripley
is still in a coma and Newt makes her a map of her Grandparent's home in Oregon
so she can find her when she wakes up...Lot's of cuteness and string-pulling as
Newt departs Anchorpoint.
 
We jump back to Rodina Station and meet a bunch of new characters. Braun,
Rodina's Chief of R&D, Colonel-Doctor Suslov, the Head of the station, and
several military and diplomatic officers. The scene is basically a discussion
of where are we? - where are they? re: the development of the aliens as a
weapon, and what to do about Bishop? They decide the best course of action is
not to overplay their hand, but to sterilize Bishop and send him back with no
traces of the alien spores or any memory of his time at Rodina. They rebuild
him (with inferior UPP technology - this later becomes a plot element and a
running joke in the script) and return him to Anchorpoint.
 
CUT TO:
 
INT. ANCHORPOINT - TISSUE CULTURE LAB
 
Trent, head of biolab, Rosetti, and Fox wait, seated, as Tully wheels a
holographic Display Module into position. The lights dim. A faint, ghostly cube
shimmers in front of the three men.
 
TRENT
Initially this was merely routine, you understand. We attempted to determine
its compatibility with terrestial DNA.
 
FOX
What kind of DNA Doctor?
 
TRENT
Human, of course.
 
Something shivers and shakes and takes form in the cube of light: a double
helix threaded with green and red beads of light.
 
TRENT (continuing)
Watch closey, please.
 
The alien genetic material looks like a cubist's vision of an art deco
staircase, its asymmetrical segments glowing day-glow green and purple.
 
ROSETTI
That's a biological structure? More like part of a machine...
 
The alien form makes contact with the human DNA. The transformation is
shockingly swift, but its stages can still be followed: the thing seems to pull
itself into and THROUGH the coils, and for an instant the two are meshed,
locked, and then the final stage. A new shape glows, a HYBRID; the green and
red beads have been altered beyond recognition.
 
FOX
Like a high-speed viral takeover...! What's the real-time duration on this,
Trent?
 
TULLY
(from the shadows beyond the glowing cube) That was it. What you see is what
you get. That's how fast it is...
 
(Several scenes follow that I'll just encapsulate for you. They are all
important, but only in that they introduce characters or minor plot elements.
 
#1 Hicks meets Walker the foreman of the Anchorpoint machine-shop...He is a
tough customer.
 
#2 Jackson, Shuman, UPP Diplomatic Officer discuss Bishop's return.
 
#3 Bishops arrives at Anchorpoint.
 
#4 Hicks meets Tully in a bar on the Mall and Tully reveals that Fox and Welles
have ordered the lab to experiment with the alien DNA.
 
#5 Rosetti, Fox, Trent, and Welles in the security bubble discussing the
progress of the experiments. Rosetti raises minor objections, but wimps out
when Fox threatens his career.
 
#6 Bishop being checked out by a medlab tech and jokes about his shitty UPP
polycarbonate knee joints. This is followed by a long scene with Hicks and
Spence where she fully spills the beans about the "research.")
 
INT. CONSTRUCTION ZONE CHAMBER
(lots of text deleted)
 
SPENCE
Maybe I don't either. It's just...We've got to tell somebody...Now there's a
rumor somebody came in on a UPP ship today, somebody off Sulaco...
 
HICKS
Bishop...
 
SPENCE
I don't know.
 
HICKS
Maybe Progressive Peoples'll get their own alien too. Maybe they'll grow
some...
 
SPENCE
(horrified) Shit! You'd better hope not...
 
HICKS
Why's that?
 
SPENCE
Their lab gear's five years behind ours. they'd never be able to control it
 
HICKS
Think you can, huh?
 
SPENCE
I don't know...
 
(More scenes follow:
 
#1 Tully complains to Jackson that there are problems with one of the stasis
systems in the lab.
 
#2 Rodina - BioLab:  Braun and Suslov are discussing the alien as a weapon in
front of a large stasis tube. Scene ends with a closeup on the tube showing a
"chestburster suspended like a fetal dolphin."
 
#3 Long scene where Bishop tells Hicks about Ripley and the queen on the
Sulaco. He also warns Hicks to watch him carefully as the UPP may have
reprogrammed him and he would not know it.
 
#4 Long scene in the culture lab with Tully and Welles. Ends with the stasis
system failing and the contents spraying all over Welles and Tully. They are
immediately taken to a "de-con" unit. Welles is seriously pissed off!
 
#5 Bishop and Hicks sneak into the tissue culture lab and destroy all of the
alien cultures. Ends with both of them in white plastic restraints as they are
placed in separate cells. The next scene is the beginning of the proverbial
shit hitting the fan.)
 
INT. THE BUBBLE
 
Meeting of the full Anchorpoint Directorate, including Welles and Fox and a
number of new faces. Welles is white lipped with fury.
 
(lots of dialog omitted)
 
FOX
You have no more material to work with, Trent. In any case, it's become obvious
that you aren't the man for the job. We took the precaution of obtaining our
own samples. they're on their way to Gateway. (Wow! Does this open a lot of
possibilities...Like "Earth Hive" for instance.)
 
WELLES
(with cold satisfaction)...and everything, every move each of you have made,
since our arrival, is going to be gone over with a fine toothed c-c-c-c-c--
 
As Welles begins to stammer, her eyes betray a terrible consternation. She
rises from her chair, lurches forward, catching herself on her hands. The
c-c-c-c- phases into a chattering palsy as a thick strand of blood-streaked
drool descends toward the table. Fox, seated to her left, has instinctively
shoved his own chair back, ready to run. Everyone else is frozen with shock.
 
As the chittering tooth-burr becomes a shrill SHRIEK of inhuman rage, the
transformation takes place. Segmented biomechanoid tendons squirm beneath the
skin of her arms. Her hands claw at one another, tearing redundant flesh from
alien talons. then the shriek dies. She straightens up. And, rips her face
apart in a single movement, the glistening claws coming away with skin, eyes,
muscle, teeth, and splinters of bone...The sound of ripping cloth. the new
beast sheds its human skin in a single sinuous, bloody ripple, molting on fast
forward...An instant of utter silence as the featureless mask moves. From side
to side. Scanning.
 
Trent vomits explosively. the marine guard snatches his pistol from its holster
and fires wildly across the table. Blind screaming chaos.
 
OVERHEAD SHOT
 
As the Directorate plunges, like a single panicked organism, to the far side of
the bubble. The thing is on Fox before he can get up from his chair.
 
CLOSE
 
On his scream as the sucking, fanged tounge plunges through the orbit of his
eye.
 
ANGLE
 
A marine with a flamethrower bursts through the door, torching Fox and the new
beast, setting fire to the bubble's acoustic foam baffles.
 
(Clearly, this script was destined to get an "R" rating...From this point on
the script becomes an Aliens-like war movie. Many brief cutting scenes follow:
 
#1 Spence finds Tully's contaminated lab badge.
 
#2 Rosetti gets Hicks and Bishop out of their cells and enlists their help.
 
#3 Hicks (in full combat armor) and Walker driving into the construction zone
in a jeep searching for Tully.
 
#4 Jackson, Spence, and Bishop tracking them on monitors from operations.
 
#5 Hicks and Walker find and kill the alien that was Tully.
 
#6 Closeup of Spence as Tully's locator dot blinks out.
 
#7 INT. RODINA Mass confusion as we see the commandos fighting their way
through what has obviously become a war-zone. Then we see the result of
Suslov's genetic tinkering: It's a new type of alien - "bigger, meaner, faster,
able to reproduce more rapidly." The commandos swarm through a hatch and seal
the thick steel door. We hear slamming and pounding as the steel begins to
buckle.
 
All of this is followed by a really long scene with Hicks, Jackson, Bishop,
Shuman, and Rosetti in operations. We find out the closest ship is the
transport Kansas City which is 20 hours away. the following exchange takes
place in the midle of it:)
 
ROSETTI
We abandon the station.
 
HICKS
Destroy the station, man! We got nukes?
 
ROSETTI
Outlawed under the strategic arms reduction treaty.
 
JACKSON
We can fiddle the overrides on the fusion package. Baby nova.
 
BISHOP
We're dealing with a new form Colonel. We know nothing of this new mode of
reproduction. Others may have already become hosts.
 
ROSETTI
What are you suggesting?
 
BISHOP
Inorder to be ENTIRELY certain, Colonel, it would be necessary to override the
fusion package now.
 
Jackson looks up at Bishop; he's suggesting mass suicide.
 
HICKS
I thought you were programmed to protect human life?
 
BISHOP
(with android blandness) I'm taking the long view.
 
(I believe this would have become one of the classic lines of the film. The
scene ends with an incoming message, actually a warning, from Rodina. A
technician explains what they have done and that all experiments must be
terminated as they cannot be contained...No shit! There is a lot of funny
reparte about "the Soviet space brothers" in this scene. Jackson almost takes
on the air of a Hudson, except she's pretty gutsy. At the very end Jackson
gathers everyone near the monitors as they notice that something huge is
blocking the cameras in the air-scrubber chamber. Many scenes follow:
 
 
#1 Spence sitting in the eco-module...Birds begin to sing...The calm before the
storm.
 
#2 EXT. RODINA - No movement. INT. - We see the Vietnamese commando sitting on
the floor cradling her gun, the acid burned corpse of her partner is beside
her.
 
#3 A series of very rapidly cut scenes where Hicks puts Ripley in a lifeboat
and launches her into space. Bishop questions him about this as she might be
infected. Hicks replies, "I owe her one."
 
#4 Great combat sequence as Hicks leads a group of "green" marines to the
scrubber room where they find a huge mutant queen alien. The place look like
the queens chamber on LV-426, only more grotesque. Lots of the new aliens come
crawling out the walls. The marines destroy the new queen and kill lots of the
drones, but as the Queen pulls loose from the framework that is supporting her,
an enormous cloud of spores is released and then sucked into the air
circulation system. Hicks has Bishop close the vents.
 
#5 INT. RODINA HUB - The commando works her way through the core of the
station. She discover the almost the entire crew of the station, maybe a
hundred people all cocooned in a multi-story column...A bas-relief of human
bodies and glittering resin. A closeup of Braun and Suslov is shown.
 
#6 INT. OPS - Jackson, Rosetti, and Bishop are watching the approach of the UPP
cruiser Nikolai Stoiko at Rodina (How they are doing this is not explained
other than as some form of survelience system. It's clear that it's not direct
video, but some form of remore imaging.).
 
#7 INT. RODINA - The commando gets into an interceptor and escapes from the
station. We see her blast away.
 
#8 EXT. RODINA - We see the Stoiko launch a missle and a nuclear blast destroy
the station.
 
#9 INT. OPS - Jackson says, "I don't believe it! They send for help, and their
own people nuked'em! Hicks replies, "Maybe they asked for it."
 
The following scenes are a real combat-fest.
 
#1 Walker on the Mall blasting aliens and taking pulls from a jug of liquor. In
the end he becomes an alien.
 
#2 INT. ECO-MODULE - Spence enters and gasps at what she sees. The primates
have been cocooned in the trees.
 
#3 Hicks on the Mall...scenes of carnage everywhere.
 
#4 INT. OPS - Jackson, Hicks, Rosetti, Spence, and Bishop. Hicks wants to blow
the fusion package immediately. Jackson says it doesn't matter as Hicks has
destroyed the scrubber and with all the fires, they'll only have air for a few
more hours anyway. One of the marines falls down in agony, only he doesn't
become an alien. His chest bursts open and about half a dozen new model
chestbursters pop out and run in all different directions. Hicks evacuates
everyone.
 
#5 INT. CORRIDOR - Bishop heads off to rig the fusion package. Hicks gathers
all the survivors to take them to the lifeboats. A few new characters are
introduced at this point...All minor.
 
#6 Bishop in the Mall encounters yet another queen and her drones in the
process of cocooning victims. Bishop runs for the elevator with the queen after
him.
 
#7 Lots of cross-cutting between the group heading for the lifeboats fighting
their way through the aliens and Bishops staving off the queen in the elevator.
Bishop escapes by ripping up the floor of the elevator showing his android
strength. The lifeboat party emerges from a wall of smoke to find the passage
blocked by a wall of resin, human bones, marine helmets, rifles, etc. What
follows is just too complex to distill and too long to copy and still be fair
to Mr. Gibson. Let me just say that it's an incredible sequence of the lifeboat
party taking alternate routes to the bay as the aliens keep blocking their
path. Lots of explosions, shootouts, mucho violence...Really keen stuff!
 
#8 Bishop arrives at the fusion package and proceeds to rig it to blow.
 
#9 We rejoin the lifeboat party at the crew quarters where we see even more
carnage including what's left of a children's preschool. Memebers of the party
freak out at this point. Spence and Hicks calm everyone down and they move on.
 
#10 Bishop exiting the fusion complex...One of his polycarbon knees gives out.
He is now dragging one leg behind him.
 
#11 Spence is separated in a service shaft and trapped by an alien. She has a
huge flare pistol and kills it. She rejoins Hicks and the others.
 
#12 Bishop climbing the elevator shaft and checking his watch: 21:40. They
agreed he would set the fusion unit to blow at 22:00.
 
#13 Hicks and Jackson have it out with Rosetti who is not handling things very
well. Basically,  they kick his ass. One of the party, Tatsumi is bitten, but
survives. They dress his wound and move on.
 
#14 Quick scene of Bishop back on the Mall putting a patch on leg and then
moving to rejoin the others. The queen is no longer there.
 
#15 Hicks and company arrive at the lifeboat bay. Closeup of Tatsumi's leg
wound leaving a trail of yellow drops. Rosetti opens the door and the bay is
filled with fresh new aliens. Hicks provides cover fire and they get the door
closed again. They all pile into an office. It's Trent's, and they find him
where he's already killed himself. Spence finds that the back wall of the
office is actually an airlock. Sounds of the aliens throwing themselves against
the door to the office. Hicks checks his watch it's 21:46.
 
#16 As they prepare to enter the lock, A chestburster crawls out of Tatsumi's
wound and more erupt from his chest. The survivors enter the airlock. They all
suit up and the color of their suits is important. Rosetti gets in a yellow
suit.  Shortly after they exit the lock Rosetti goes through the change inside
his suit. He kills a lab tech and then Hicks kill him. Only Jackson, Hicks, and
Spence are left alive. Hicks looks at his watch 21:59...22:00...Nothing! They
move across the outside surface of Anchorpoint toward the external portion of
the lifeboats.
 
#17 Outside shot of the lock shows the aliens following them...They are
unaffected by the cold and the vacuum.
 
#18 Outside the lifeboat, Spence and jackson work on opening the hatch with a
bypass. Hicks continue to kill aliens.
 
#19 Hicks sees a yellow spacesuit moving across the hull...Rosetti? No, it's
Bishop. he has emerged from another lock. Bishop "greases" all the aliens that
are left on the outside. He tells Hicks that he gave them an extra half hour of
time.
 
#20 As they are getting in the lifeboat, the second queen emerges and leads a
charge of new aliens toward them. They run out of ammo as the aliens close in
on them.
 
#21 Cut to the UPP interceptor: shot of a port opening revealing a "viscious
looking gattling style pulse cannon" (I could almost hear the audience cheering
in my head as I read this scene). The interceptor wipes out the aliens.
 
#22 The commando lands the interceptor near them and takes them on board.
Jackson is killed by the aliens in this scene. The aliens are coming up behind
the ship. She fires the engines and fries them!
 
#23 The interceptor streaks away as the reactor overloads and blows.
 
The last scene is in the interceptor and it's too long for fair-use, although,
I'd love to put up the whole thing. Instead I'll just give you the gist of it
and one very important extract.
 
INT. INTERCEPTOR
 
(dialog omitted, but Bishop determines that none of them are infected or they
would have already begun to change. The commando has had a lethal dose of
radiation and will only live a few more hours.)
 
BISHOP
You're a species again, Hicks. United against a common enemy...
 
HICKS
Yeah?
 
BISHOP
The source, Hicks. You'll have to trace them back, find the point of origin.
The first source and destroy it.
 
HICKS
I don't know, Bishop. Maybe we oughtta just stay out of their way...
 
BISHOP
You can't, Hicks. This goes far beyond mere interspecies competition. These
creatures are to biological life what antimatter is to matter.
 
HICKS
How do you mean?
 
BISHOP
There isn't room for the both of you, Hicks, not in this universe.
 
HICKS
That's crazy, Bishop...
 
BISHOP
No. You're already at war, Hicks. War to extermination. The alien knows no
other mode.
 
HICKS
Hell, man, we been at war all my life. Near enough, anyway. With her (he looks
down at the Vietnamese commando). With all her brothers and sisters. That's
what got us into this shit in the first place!
 
BISHOP
But now you've seen the enemy, Hicks. So has she. She's not it. Neither are
you. This is a Darwinian universe, Hicks. Will the alien be the ultimate
survivor?
 
Hicks doesn't answer. He just looks at Bishop. Bishop goes back to repairing
his circuitry.
 
CLOSE ON:
 
Spence's sleeping face and the face of the dying commando.
 
DISSOLVE TO:
 
EXT. SPACE
 
Approach of a large ship.
 
The PING of homing radar.
 
ANGLE ON THE HULL
 
As it slides past, enormous letters: KANSAS CITY
 
EXT. SPACE - ANGLE UP
 
>From below Kansas City  as a wide bay opens up.
 
The interceptor comes into frame and is drawn up into the brightly lit hold.
 
The bay closes.
 
EXT. SPACE
 
Kansas City. Receding. Gone.
 
The stars.
 
FADE OUT
 
THE END
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
15. REVISION HISTORY
 
v1.0 - March 22, 1993 - Initial draft.  Most information supplied by me alone.
 
v1.1 - March 31, 1993 - Added countless bits of information supplied by
       interested users of the net.
 
v1.2 - April 14, 1993 - Revision control.  Chestbuster scene added, more info
       on the dog/cow scene of _ALIEN^3_, more _ALIENS_ cut scenes, added to
       the alien physiology discussion.  Small changes to the merchandise
       list.  Added more "memorable quotes" and more "trivia".  Added
       "rituals" section and switched around the order of the sections to
       make the FAQ more readable.
 
v1.3 - May 5, 1993 - Small changes to the "Who is?" section.  Removed the
       Chestbuster scene.  Organized the discussion section.  Added some
       more frequently asked questions.  More complete descriptions of the 
       cut scenes from _ALIEN_ and _ALIENS_ were added as well.  More trivia.
 
v1.4 - June 23, 1993 - Added Gibson's ALIEN^3 script synopsis, James Cameron's
       answers to a few questions about ALIENS and vastly improved the 
       merchandise and FAQ sections.
 
v1.5 - Sept 14, 1993 - Added more frequently asked questions.  Added running
       times to some of the _ALIEN_ cut scenes.  More rituals.  Changed my
       address (to [email protected])  Added extensive info about
       _ALIEN^3_ script rewrites.
 
v1.6 - Sept 21, 1993 - In an effort to reduce (eliminate?) the all-to-common
       flaming of _ALIEN^3_, I added a section to Frequently Discussed 
       Topics that addresses both sides of the argument.  Broke the FAQ up
       into 3 parts so I could (once again) post it to the Internet.
 
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&                                                                            &
&                                 The END                                    &
&                                                                            &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 

    Re last three,very interesting reading.What about some speculation as
    to what the story line in Aliens 4 will be?
    
    Tyrone