Conference noted::sf

However, given the number of Church of Scientology members, it probably
will approach a Best Seller in numbers sold.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

This raises some intersting ballyhoo about Hubbard and Scientology in general.

I had heard some time back that Hubbard and the Church had split, and some
people went so far as to say that the Church had had Hubbard killed.  Then
Battlefield Earth came out, and I guess Hubbard made appearances to promote
it, and everyone started saying that Hubbard was writing to make money for the
Church.

Anyone know about, or care about, the state of all this?
Dave Wall

RE: -1:

Well, I certainly don't know, and not sure how much I care, but it does
make for interesting speculation ...

Let's see. Here's what I heard <general disclaimer>: I'm doing this from 
memory, so feel free to correct:

Prior to the release of BATTLEFIELD EARTH, Hubbard's estranged son went to
court -- ppetitioning for proof that (A). L. Ron was still alive and (B). If
so, that he was still mentally competent to handle his own affairs. The
argument went something like that L. Ron was more valuable to the Church of
Scientology alive than dead (and of course, sane rather than senile), and 
that senior Church members had held Hubbard pere' virtually captive in later
years. There was now some question in young Hubbard's mind about whether 
his father was still alive, and he felt the Church was deliberately witholding
evidence about his death. If this all sounds akin to the Howard Hughes 
affair, it was.

I missed the facts about the case, but believe that the court was supplied 
with evidence that gave weight to the ruling that Hubbard was alive 
and competent. The ruling went against Hubbard's son -- L. Ron never 
appeared publicly in court. Somewhat later, BATTLEFIELD EARTH appeared as
mysteriously as Minerva springing from Zeus's brow.

Speculation I've heard: (1) BATTLEFIELD EARTH was written by a team (or a 
single) SF writer(s) sympathetic to the Church of Scientology and/or L. Ron
Hubbard, who wanted to honor the old man, and were pledged to secrecy. 
Balsian opinion: Extremely doubtful that such a secret could be kept for long 
in the gossip-charged world of SF.

(2) Hubbard is dead, and BATTLEFIELD EARTH & MISSION EARTH are ploys to 
keep the masquerade going. Balsian opinion: Extremely doubtful, unless 
Hubbard indeed broke with the Church. Otherwise, why?

(3) Hubbard is incompetent, etc; Balsian opinion: Possible, but same 
objections as above.

BTW, I've heard of a book written by a past senior Church member who *did* 
break with Scientology. Anyone know the title, author?

Fred

RE: .3 [here I am replying to my reply :-)]

Some more thoughts ... There's been a lot of loose talk spilling around
in SF_Lovers Digest that the Scientologists have some evil scheme to "take
over Science Fiction." (visions of a mad scientist declaiming, "Yes Igor, 
our plans come to fruition! Soon we will have them all in our grasp!"). As
far as I can tell, most of this seems to rely on the facts that Bridge
Publications has started a science fiction writing contest (see my previous
note way back), and is evidently planning a magazine (and a movie of 
BATTLEFIELD EARTH). There were also some (unfounded, as well as I can 
determine) rumors that the unwashed masses of Scientolgists had been 
incited to stuff the Hugo ballot box for B.E.

Balsian opinion -- Sincere doubts that if Scientologists wanted to take 
over anything, they'd start with SF fans [a more paranoid, argumentive, and 
generally hard-to-deal with group you can't find outside of DEC :-)].

I also wanted to ask Dave if he could back up the statement that Elron 
has been doing publicity appearences (!!!). Now, that would be *verrry*
interesting...

Fred

Fred has pretty much got the story straight (in .3).

Hubbard has still made no public appearances, though.

--- jerry

I couldn't corroborate whether or not Hubbard had made any public appearances.
I have this vague memory of all the rannygazoo coming to an end because Hubbard
showed up someplace and said "Here I am."  I will of course bow to Jerry on this
one.

There have been several books by people who supposedly live in fear of reprisals
from the Church of Scientology, but they all had a relatively breif publishing
history, since they were only really attention grabbers when Scientology was a
celebrity fad a few years back, supposedly the newest method for coping with
instant fame.

Scientology take over science fiction?  If so, what would they do with it once
they had it?

Or maybe this isn't really L. Ron Hubbard, it's a cosmic energy simulacrum of
L. Ron Hubbard, and the real one is in a cocoon in John Travolta's hot tub.
(I gotta cut this out!)

Dave Wall

       I just finished the "invaders plan" (can't believe there hasn't
       been another note in this topic since 85). I'm a bit more
       forgiving than .0 was but not much. The book was amusing at first
       but rapidly became boring and repetitive. I can't imagine reading
       10 of these in the same vein. I enjoyed "battlefield earth" much
       more than IP.

       My copy of the book (paperback) has about 10 pages of advertizing
       for the whole series and encourages you to send away for a free
       poster. There was also a page by the publishers refering to L.
       Ron in the past tense so if he wasn't dead in 85 maybe he is now.
       Someone that bought all 10 books probably joined the apparatus
       and put out a contract on him.

       For anyone who may be interested anyway...the book is told
       through the eyes of one of the bad guys. The good guys are
       absolutely perfect (beautiful, kind, help old ladies across the
       street) and everyone loves them, except the bad guys who are evil
       to the bone. It is supposed to be satire and does have it's funny
       moments but they are not enough to carry the rest of the books.
       liesl

    re: .7
    
    >   Someone that bought all 10 books probably joined the apparatus
    >   and put out a contract on him.
    
    anyone who read all 10 books would know better than to join the
    apparatus......what really happened is somebody decided to "PR"
    lrh.  when he found out, he dropped dead.
    
    i made through all 10, thanks to marlboro public library.
    sure it was repetitive, but i thought it was more like some old
    pulp serial, just written for fun.  also, thanks to the publisher
    spacing the books out, i didn't read them one right after the other,
    but instead read other things in between, and when i returned to
    the series it didn't seem so old and stale.
    
    

still a couple years later.....



I liked it!  Ok, so it got boring in places, but taken from a purely 
"entertainment" point of view (not caring about the who/whats of 
L.R.H) it wasn't the best, but it wasn't the worst I've ever read 
either.

For something a little bit different it was worth it.


P.G.    

    re .9
            I agree, I wouldn't get much reading done if I only read books 
    by authors that weren't put down for one thing or another.
    
    In fact if every author was to be scrutinized for his lifestile,
    not to much reading would be done....think about it! how many people
    that you know, friends,relitives,coworkers...ect, agree with your views
    on religion,politics,the envrionment...and so on???
    If one of them happens to write a book in your field of interest,
    would you not read it! or would you not even give it a chance because
    the writer was not in agreement with your views on any particular
    issue.
          I know people that feel this way and won't give L.R.H.'s books
    a look because they don't like his views on religion.
    of all the books that I've read, written by different authors
    I didn't once consider ther religious beliefs, if any. The only thing I
    considered at all was the entertainment valu of the book.
    I've read Battlefield Earth and am most of the way through the 
    Invaders Plan series , granted there are some slow areas , but there
    are some in most novels or lenghty series. But overall the two titles 
    I've mentioned are entertaining and enjoyable reading.
    
    
    MDG

>          I know people that feel this way and won't give L.R.H.'s books
>    a look because they don't like his views on religion.

I believe that many people (rightly?) object to buying books by people 
who will use the proceeds (in both money and fame) to proselytize
religious or political views with which they disagree.
This is especially the case of Hubbard, since Scientology is so contentiously
argued with regard to its religious/lifestyle/political/medical aspects.

- tom]

Personally, I just refuse to by books from authors that have died, yet refuse
to stop publishing -

Yes, folks, I saw a glossy recently for L. Ron's next book... :-(

and its a horror/mystery...


And it was billed as his "latest" work...

grins,

clark.

    Re: .12
    
    What do you think of V.C. Andrews?
    
    K.C.

Who?

I assume its another eloguent dead author who refuses to shut up? :-)

grins,

clark.

    
    You kill me here too, Clark :')
    
    
    

    Actually, many of us refuse to buy LRH's books simply because they're
    bloody awful.
    
    re:.12
    
    Actually, LRH's horror/mystery "latest" is FEAR, which is actually
    a reprint of something he wrote for Campbell's UNKNOWN fifty years
    ago.
    
    --- jerry

    Re: .14
    
    V.C. "Flowers In The Attic" Andrews, who has released 4 books
    posthumously, but they WERE written by her, and there are more to come!
    (She wrote the basics before she died, and her family "cleaned them up"
    and published them under the Virginia Andrews Trust)
    
    K.C.

    What about H. Beam Piper?  He didn't get anything published while he
    was alive, and he's one of my top-ten authors!
    
    Willie

Re -VC Andrews -

Its interesting, I read about 100 pages of flowers in the attic and gave up
on it cause it felt, pardon the expression, rather dead.  And now I find out 
that the author really is dead... :-)

RE - H. Beam Piper - 

Luckily for me, I read all of his work before I became disgusted with authors
not letting death slow them down... :-)  (think about it, how long was L. Ron
silent in the field of SF, then he dies once or twice (yes, I do believe that 
there have been multiple reports of his "demise" over the years...) and comes
out with Battlefield Earth, and then the 10 part epic of his, which he 
conveinently dies in the "middle" of publishing...)

grins,

clark.

And Another thing about H Beam Piper - 

At least he was trying to get his stuff published before he lost all
hope and killed himself...

And if he had just waited a few more days, for the check really was in the
mail... :-(

grins,

clark.

    Re: .19
    
    No, no, no!  She was very much alive during the release of 4 of the 5 
    "Flowers In The Attic" books, "My Sweet Audrina" and a couple of the 
    "Heaven" series.
    
    K.C.

    re:.18
    
    	� What about H. Beam Piper? He didn't get anything
    	published while he was alive [...] �
    
    That's about as untrue a statement as you could possibly make.
    
    Piper had been writing and selling short fiction to ASTOUNDING
    SCIENCE FICTION since the late 40's. Among his books, virtually
    all of them were published prior to his suicide in 1964. The
    only exceptions are:
    
    (1) THE OTHER HUMAN RACE [a.k.a. FUZZY SAPIENS] was published in
    	1964, but whether it was before he died or not, I couldn't say.
    	Even if it wasn't, it seems clear that it was at least in the
    	process of being published.
    
    (2) LORD KALVAN OF OTHERWHEN (1965) was made up of novelettes that
    	had appeared in ASTOUNDING in the early 50's, and so doesn't
    	really count. The same would go for similar collections put
    	together by other hands in the late 70's -- FEDERATION and
    	PARATIME, etc.
    
    (3) The third Fuzzy novel (ARGH! I don't believe that the title
    	escapes me at the moment!), but that was clearly a manuscript
    	of his that had been lost for 20 years.
    
    --- jerry

    	I personally LIKE this series. I just discovered it in paperback
    and am on my 5th book of the series.
    
    	I wonder what people a couple of hundred years from now will think
    if one of these books is found.......I love the disclaimer by the
    "Voltairian Translator" at the begining of each book. Great satire!!!
                           
    	-Hoop-