Conference noted::sf

Re .0:

I finished _The Proteus Operation_ recently.  You are right, it is strongly
historical.  Also, Hogan often has problems with the science fiction.  He is
usually good on ideas and giving them a rational basis, but he does not always
tie up the details properly. For example, in _Thrice Yesterday_ (Is that the
correct title?), he packs a complete date and time into something like sixteen
bits.  In _The Proteus Operation_, this business about the relative "speeds"
of time being related to the fourth power of the distance in time bothers
me.  There are serious problems:

	Why is it the distance in time and not the distance in space-time?

	Why is it the fourth power?

On this last, I kept wondering why the people in the future were constrained
to contacting an ever-progressing point in the past; they always had enough
power to contact a point x years back, why must they not use that limit in
contacting their team?  Hogan finally "explained" this by saying they could
always go back x years, but they would be contacting a different universe
than the one the team was in; maintaining contact with the team requires
following the fourth-power rule.  But something like that seems to me to
need some explanation; it has serious implications for the nature of everything.
Once the team is sent back, it is already on a different time-line that the
future it was sent from.  This means the future can contact time-lines different
from its own; it can go sideways, not just back and forth.  But if it can
do that, why cannot it do it arbitrarily?  Hogan has created an arbitrary
rule which would require some structure but has no such structure.


				-- edp

	Yes, I largely agree with Being::postpichel (apologies if I've munged
	your name...) - I liked the book from a distant viewpoint, but as
	you look closer at the details of his theorem, you're left feeling
	bamboozled.

	There have been SO many time travel stories that I believe it's
	darn near impossible to add to the theory, and pretty unnecessary
	to boot. Translation: Time Travel is used up as a plot idea. Find
	something else.

	I liked the action in the story, however. During the read, I felt
	that Hogan was stretching for a movie contract, yes? I mean, the
	most difficult special effect will be the chemical dump, and that's
	not too challenging. There's a few scenes in the bar, which is
	a nice excuse to work in some music... and plenty of shoot'em'ups.
	Seems to have all the juicy movie bits built in.

	Or maybe I'm just cynical.

	Naaah.

Yeaaah - I had exactly the same feeling - actually two feelings - one was
"movie" and the other was "mainstream best seller".  Hey, Hogan's no dummy,
he writes for a living.

len.

BTW, I recently read BACK STAR RISING, and thought it was a pretty good story.
I Liked the cover the SFBC put on it too, a statue similiar to the 'marines
raising the flag on ?Io Jima?', except with 'bugs' instead of marines.

The ending was a little flat though, in theory a surprise solution for a
situation that had no solution, but pretty 'deus ex ...'.  Also, back in
the middle of the book when I was rooting for the bugs, I thought they should
have naturally sent another 'gateway' ship through the first.  Why not? 
Because then there would not be any story, as written.

minor complaint.

Jim.

The cover on Black Star Rising issued by SFBC is the same as the original
hardbound jacket.  The "bugs" depicted on the cover are cute aliens, but
when I read it (it's been a few months now) I remember feeling that the
descriptions in the text didn't imply to me that appearance.  Probably
should go read it again.

len.

I haven't read the _Proteus Operation_ yet but it sounds alot like
Ben Bova's _Orion_. Time travel (not by choice) filled with some
super-human-strength type adventures set in different historical
times and places. Real interesting to read if you don't try to 
analyze the SF/time travel end of it too closely. 

For those who have read both, how do they compare?  

Mike

    I didn't get a chance to read _ORION_ yet, but several observations
    about Proteus and Hogan in general:
    
    I agree that Proteus was beating a dead horse. Time travel, Parallel
    worlds, "What if" histroical drama, etc. But at least Proteus didn't
    preach to us like so much of Hogan's other books. (Voyage from
    Yesteryear, Code of the Lifemaker.)
    
    I did enjoy the book (of course, I like almost everything I read.)
    and will look forward to the movie.

    I read ORION and really disliked it--in fact, it pretty much stunk
    up the place.  I read it because I had just read VOYAGERS and loved
    it--but ORION was a big disappointment.
    
    Just mindless action-adventure stuff--which is not necessarily bad
    if the author in question can write it well, but Bova can't.
    
    -- Matt