Conference noted::sf

Rumor has it. (I heard it from someone (Craig Miller?) who heard it from someone
else.(Micheal Whelan?)) That Micheal Whalen (the cover artist) read it before he
did the artwork and didn't like it. 

It is in his contracts that read the work first and then does a painting on what
he likes from the book (not the editor's choice). 

I'd wait.

-Andy-

	I'm currently reading the book (about 2/3 through it). It's one of his 
fast paced books with a good bit of humor in it. It also has a LOT a 
references to some of his older books. The book seems to read well as it 
stands; but it would read better if you are a long time Heinlein reader. So 
far, I like it. And I'm not sorry I paid hardcover prices for it (I do tend to 
go back and re-re-re-re-...read books I like over the years).


	/s/	Bob

This file does not seem to have enough discussion of stories and authors
lately, so let's stir something up.  I haven't liked the endings of any of
Heinlein's recent works, although the stories have been pretty good otherwise.
This includes _Friday_, _Job_, and _The Number of the Beast_.  I understand
parts of the stories have meaning to certain people, but that's no excuse
for letting the ending slide from the viewpoint of the general reader.  None
of the stories have endings with any real "oomph".  (Example of story with
a real "oomph" ending:  _Dragon's Egg_ by Robert Forward.)


				-- edp

Just finished "The Cat ..." last night. A strange bird, (to mixmaster my
metaphors) but I liked it a lot. Well, put a hold on that for a second. I
found that it combined some of the latter-day Heinlein elements that
I *dislike* (interminable arguments between characters in place of 
storyline), plus classic Heinlein characterization and settings. But, I 
felt that the classic Heinlein finally won out. As opposed to "JOB," I 
thought that purchasing "The Cat ..." in hardcover was money well-spent.

Some thoughts on the book (really light, too, as I think it's be 
*impossible* to review this book without spoilers).

RE: -3:

I was one of those that was really disappointed with *THE NUMBER OF THE 
BEAST's* ending, but I think it evident now that Heinlein is working on at 
least a trilogy (with "Number" being #1 and "Cat" #2), as "Cat," while 
being a tighter, stand-alone novel than "Number," also leaves a lot of 
questions unresolved. Does R.A.H. have a master plan to tie all the books 
together? We'll have to stay tuned for the next one in the series. And I'd 
bet anything (God willing that Heinlein stays healthy), that there *will* 
be another in the series.

For collectors in the noting audience, you might want to pick up "Cat" 
anyway, as there's a *dreadful* typo in the first edition that will 
certainly disappear if the book is reissued. Briefly, the characters check 
in at Room "L" at the Raffles Hotel (Moon is a Harsh Mistress fans take 
note), where they notice a memorial plaque dedicated to the leaders of the 
revolution -- Manny, the Prof, Wyoh, and "Adam Selene." The plaque's 
wording is spelled out in the book. The only problem is that Manny's name 
is spelled "Manual." (obviously prior to his marriage into the 
Davis family, where Manny still had the "Labor" surname :-)).

On the other hand, could Heinlein have done this purposely? L-City has 
degenerated so much, I'd believe anything.

I know it's been picked up in SF-Lovers Digest, but has anyone 
else noticed what's wrong with the jacket art? (Hint: You won't unless 
you've finished the book).

Finally, for those thinking that Heinlein can't write with the same 
intensity, I'd suggest you read those episodes in "Cat" dealing with Manny. 
Especially his recounting of meeting Hazel Stone for the first time. Tears 
come easily to Heinlein characters, not so easily to me. But I wept when I 
read this.

Ja! Da! A dinkum good read!

Fred

Well... I've finished the book. It was great right up to the last chapter. The 
last chapter stunk! (At least in my opinion.) I probably will re-read it at 
some time, and I can't wait for the obvious next book!!!! And the ties back to 
older books got greater and more evident as the story developed!!!!

	All in all, I'd rate it about a 7-8 on a scale of 10.

	/s/	Bob

A caveat: I want to discuss this book, but as I've already mentioned in .3, 
it may be impossible to do without *SPOILERS*. I'll try to keep them down, 
but if you'd rather go into the "Cat" without preconceptions, then I suggest
you SINCE right now.

I have a theory that R.A.H. is thinking about the Black Camel kneeling at 
his door sometime soon, and has started on the "Beast/Cat" series in order 
to wind up the Future History, *and* take care of all the characters in his 
books. I've always wondered what happened to Mike the computer, and 
obviously Heinlein has too.

Now, there's an interesting part in "Cat" concerning "The World as Myth." 
That's Lazurus's theory that all the characters in the multiverse have 
actually been created by writers. And, of course, for the extended Long 
family, and others, that writer is Heinlein himself. I had thought that 
Lazarus knew who Heinlein was, as internal evidence from "Beast" seems to 
point to that idea. A "Bob" is invited, but I suppose it could be Forward, 
Silverberg, et al;. Yet, in any case, if Lazurus knew the *world,* he could 
have found the writer ...

At the end of "Cat," "Colin Campbell" (and I *know* I've heard that name 
before, does anyone know who Campbell really is?) curses out the unknown 
writer for possibly killing Pixel the cat. That brought an interesting 
thought to mind: What if the characters attempt to kill Heinlein in the 
next book? Is that why Lazurus is being such a bastard in "Cat," because 
he's seriously considering killing his creator? What would happen to 
characters if their author is dead? And, btw, what would you call it -- 
suicide (following Heinlein's sophistry that all world's are merely 
expressions of his own mind), patracide? I dunno.

Comments?

Fred

	** spoiler **  ** spoiler **  ** spoiler **  (sort of)
















	I got the Cat for Christmas, and I read it on the 26th - all day...
	opinion: wishy-washy. I really liked those aspects of the story
	that were follow-ons to Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and these chapters
	really are full of action. The action seems kind of pointless -
	the characters are fleeing from a despot. They run somewhere. They
	meet somebody. There's a shootout. They run somewhere else, they
	meet someone else, and there's a shootout, etc.  The scenery they're
	running though is interesting, the shootouts are well staged, but
	they don't seem to be learning anything along the way.

	Then the second segment of the book is pastoral. We're at the Long
	family hospital, and everyone is sipping daquiris and porking like
	bunnies. Why? And I won't spoil the "climax", because I couldn't
	really find one.

	I found the book generally pointless. Nice to visit the old characters,
	but nothing seems to be happening. There's a lot of sexual innuendo,
	most of it perverse and somewhat offensive - at 79, RAH still has
	an active libido, albeit an unhealthy one.

	I hope he lives to write another book, and I hope I live to read
	it - because I think RAH needs a better gravestone than this to end
	his illustrious career.

RAH has *never* been able to end a story well.  His books move
along, somehow without actually going anywhere, then you come
to the last page and they stop.  You are entertained along the
way, but there is rarely a climax.  Some scenes are just more
exciting than others.

    I'm sorry, but I disagree. "Well" is a relative term, of course.
    You may just not *like* the way Heinlein handles endings. I'm doing
    these off the top of my head, without references, but I'd point
    to "Stranger ..." (Mike's martyrdom winds up the story), "The 
    Moon ..." (revolution won, Prof dies, Manny considers emigrating),
    and "Podkayne of Mars" (good wins out, baddies lose, Poddy matures),
    as examples. There's literally a dozen other books I could use as
    examples.
    
    I will agree that the later Heinlein's, beginning with "Time Enough
    For Love," have had consistently weak endings.
    
    Fred

    This is a comment on the plot of "The Cat...(a spoiler?)
    
    
    
    
    
    Who is this woman acting like Friday and calling herself Hazel Stone?
    There is nothing of the original Hazel Stone in this character except
    the name. If rejuvinated Hazel would proably shot off Lazurus's
    kneecap, stolen Gay Deciver and rescued Mike all by herself.
    
    Ever since I first read "The Moom is a Harsh Mistress" I have wished
    that Heinlein would bring Mike back to life. (I cried the first
    time I read that book!). Now I'm not so sure. Will he come back
    to life as a male version of one of the female computers enfleshed
    in a Lazurus long clone. I think I'd rather he stayed dead...
    
    Referring to .3 and others I do think Heinlein's endings have gotten
    worse particularly the end of Number of the Beast - which was a
    real let down. The villan was just a literary critic????

    I WAS INTRODUCED TO HEINLEIN'S BOOKS ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, AND
    MUST SAY THAT HE HAS VERY EXCITING BOOKS.....................
    UP UNTIL THE LAST FEW PAGES. I AM ALWAYS DISAPPOINTED IN HIS ENDINGS,
    BUT IMPRESSED ENOUGH WITH THE REST OF THE BOOK TO GO ON TO THE NEXT
    ONE (IN HOPES HE WON'T RUSH THE ENDING IN THE NEXT ONE). I GUESS
    WE CAN ALWAYS HOPE, AND CONTINUE TO READ HEINLEIN.
    
    MARY-LYNN

    Go with old R.A.H.  He never finished FRIDAY, THE # O/T BEAST wound
    up in Fantasyland, and after reading JOB I thought: "So what?"
    
    After TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE he went downhill.  In my opinion.
    
    						Don 

    Read this book finally, it is now in paperback. 
    At one point in the book Colin is talking about getting back into
    writing. He says something like "all you have to do to succeed at
    writing is to file off the serial numbers, redo the paint job, and
    take it to another state." 
    I think this must be RAH's true attitude, since that is all he has
    been doing since "Stanger...". All the characters are
    indistinguishable, the plot lines - well, what plot line? - and
    now he seems to be stuck in a recursive loop.
    Number of the Beast, Friday, Job, and ...Cat..., all have characters
    running for their lives for no particular reason, characters appear
    and disappear for no reason (what was Bill for?).
    But the next one that comes out I'll probably still buy and read,
    just out of hope that he will get out of this loop and do something
    *creative*.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    I enjoyed the Cat, myself.  
    
    Agree with everyone else about Heinlein's cut-up endings.
    
    Theresa

    I've said it before, I'll say it here too. I LIKE
    RAH's endings - they leave room for ME to extrapolate.
    I hope Colin got his bakers' dozen. And I hope they
    bring Mike back. And I don't have a clue as to how they'll
    do it. 
    
    If you want predictable, read Harlequin romances.

    Endings.   NotB wound up in Fantasyland; a joke.  The last chapter
    in SiaSL re-directed the entire theme of the book; why?  Another joke?
    (And Mike really can't come back, as we now know he's an Angel 
    (*the* Angel) who 'died' for Humanity.  Would you have him do it
    again?  How do you top that one?)
    
    J:aCoJ wound up in Heaven, which destroyed the reality of the plot(?).
    The Hitchcockian method of viewer interpretation is one thing; to
    leave the reader wondering why the author went off on a tangent
    at the end of the book and left loose ends unresolved *without any
    direction to extrapolate in* is not my idea of effective writing.
    
    A novel should tell a story, and it's O.K. with me if the author
    doesn't explain some secondary plot endings and I can be happy if the main
    theme isn't quite resolved *as long as there's enough plot-line to
    supply the substance for extrapolation to tie up those loose ends*.
    
    Anyone can lead you to water, the trick is to supply clues as to
    whether you're expected to drink, float, or walk across it.
    
    As for Friday, when you've extrapolated the rest of the book (I
    thought my copy was missing a couple dozen pages until I checked
    another) feel free to publish it here.   I really enjoyed Friday
    and would like to finish reading it someday.  (I had hoped RAH would
    publish a "sequel".)
    
    When I think of extrapoltion beyond the ending I think of "All You
    Zombies"; there's one with resolution of the plot but has an un-ending
    ending.
                                                               
    						Don  (an RAH fan
    						      none-the-less)
    P.S.  What is a "Harlequin romance"?
     

    A "harlequin romance" is sort of a soap opera in paperback form.
    (I don't read them, either.)
    I didn't like the way NotB ended, either, but I don't think it is
    a soap opera.

    My P.S. was said extremely dryly.
    
    NotB was not soapy, but a bit sappy. :-)  The ending reminded me
    of a "Strategy & Tactics" Fantasy game called "Wizard", whose main
    rule of finite scenarios was there wasn't any.  (Like, just when
    you were advancing across the hex-field your opponent would
    materialize an army behind you.)
    
    							Don
    
    P.S.  An apt P_N for this note, a?
    

    I'm about 2/3 of the way thru TCWWTW, and I've decided (on the advice
    of my wife) that it's not worth finishing.  However, there are a couple
    of things that are bugging me (although not enough to want to finish
    this piece of dreck:
    
    1)	Do they ever 'rescue' Mike?
    2)	Who is after them?
    3)	Why is Colin so important?
    
    My wife gave me the rest of the important spoilers ("but if they did
    that, then he doesn't feel such a great guilt over Walker Evans and
    there wouldn't have been a Walker Evans Society and he wouldn't have
    paid any attention to the guy who involked his name on the first page
    and the whole book unravels!" was my response.  She concurred....), but
    I'd like to know the rest of it.
    
    How can one of the Big Three write such disconnected drivel?  Up to
    page 204 it was logically consistent (if not terribly clear as to what
    was going on) and made a certain amount of sense, but after that it
    reads like someone dumped a lot of Heinlein through a RACTER program
    (think of a literary Mixmaster).  He did the same thing in Number of
    the Beast, a great adventure story with heroic characters and lots of
    'rivets', internally consistent and all that.  Then halfway thru the
    book we go to the land of Oz.   AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
    
    Anyway, spoilers requested, be sure to preface them accordingly.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Willie

	Some spoilers after the spoiler mark.
    
    	But the obvious answer to your last question is: he got away
    with writing such a book because people will buy it.

        With RAH, it is truly sad that he wrote these last drivel books
    before he died. Such a legacy.
    
    	However, for those such as myself who are desparate to see some
    reasoning behind this, I give the following story.
    
    	William Faulkner spent his entire life trying to come to grips
    with his life in the south, his upbringing, his family through his
    writing. In the last years of his life, he wrote "The Reivers",
    a gentle, playful look at the time he grew up. He essentially said
    good-bye to his past, and by doing so accepted it. You can feel
    this in the work and he died some six months after the work was
    published.
    
    	I feel RAH was trying to do the same thing in his last couple
    of books: say good-bye to his past and his characters. His last
    book, about Maureen, was largely saying good-bye to RAH's past.
    It had all the typical RAH problems, but this shone through to me.
    So, it was with a lot of frustration and a little forebearance that
    I suffered through the books he produced in the last ten or so years.
    
    	Cold comfort, perhaps.
    
        Steve p.
    
    
        An attempt to reply to a spoiler request:
    
    
    	The question is do they answer the following questions:
    
    	1) Do they ever rescue Mike:	    The book doesn't say
    	2) Who is after them:          |
    	3) Why is Colin so important:  |    Heinlein gives one of those
    					    easy explanations that are
 	as unsatisfying as anything you've ever read by him. It is so
    	unsatisfying, and such an obvious podium for Heinlein to preach
    	that I don't even remember what he said.
    
    steve p

    re .19 All your questions are answered
    
    some of them in "To Sail Beyond The Sunset"
    
    sorry

    re -.1
    
    
    I just read "to sail beyond the sunset" and yeah, lots of questions
    were answered. Some of them in a kind of offhand, oh by the way,
    wasn't it good that we saved what's-his-name when he was being attacked
    by killer bumblebees in the underground caverns of barsoom, way
    that really irritated me.
    
    Did this irritate anybody else?
    
    steve p

    I got the notion (in TSBTS) that RAH was in a hurry to get 
    on with the story. Maybe that's why he tied up loose ends
    in a hurry.