Conference noted::sf

I agree that most "Star Trek" novels aren't worth the paper they're printed
on.  For the most part they're poorly written, with juvenile plots which
assume too much knowledge of the "Star Trek" universe on the part of the
reader.

A notable exception is John Ford's THE FINAL REFLECTION, which is set in the
Federation universe, but several decades before the TV series.  It not only
stands on it's own as a novel, but provides some unique insights into the
Klingon mind and culture.

I'm currently reading the "Star Trek" novel ISHMAEL.  (Sorry, the author's
name escapes me at the moment.)  I'm about two-thirds of the way through it,
and so far am not too impressed.

I've heard that Diane Duane's work is worthwhile, but haven't gotten to it
yet.

					Not a Trekkie,

					  -  o
					 - -/-->
					-  @~\_

					Roger

re:.0

I haven't read any of the "original" Trek novels except Blish's SPOCK MUST
DIE, which I read when in came out in the late 60's. I didn't think it was
as bad as most people do, but it could be that my critical faculties weren't
quite so developed then.
	The only other Trek books I've read are the Blish tv adaptations,
one of the Alan Dean Foster cartoon show adaptations (because it was based
on the Larry Niven written episode), and the three movie novelizations. I
thought all three of the latter were quite good (especially THE WRATH OF KHAN).

Regardless, THE ENTROPY EFFECT (by Vonda McIntyre) was published by Pocket
Books, not Bantam. Of course, if you don't care about spelling Marshak and
Culbreath's names correctly, you're not likely to care about this either.

re:.1

The author of ISHMAEL is Barbara Hambly, who's written a few highly-thought-of
fantasy novels for Del Rey Books. From what I have heard, it's a literal, and
not just a figurative, cross-over between STAR TREK and HERE COME THE BRIDES
(a tv show from the late 60's/early 70's based upon SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN
BROTHERS). My girlfriend says that a lot of it is lost if you haven't watched
that show. Someone in SFL reported Hambly as saying that she felt it was time
that someone wrote an intentionally silly Trek novel.

I have no particular interest in reading the Trek novels, though one of these
days, I'll probably read the Ford, Duane, and McIntyre novels, as they have
been highly recommended.

--- jerry

       One of the few points I can sympathyze with the publisher's of the 
novels is the assumed knowledge. They should either choose to write to a 
trekker or a non-trekker audience. However, by assuming too much in one 
part of a novel while completely contradicting the Star Trek universe in 
another, they manage to alienate everyone.

       FYI
         A Trekist has knowledge of the show, although he cannot provide
volumes of knowledge about it.
         A trekkie has intimate knowlege of the show, but releases most of 
his Star Trek energy by wearing Spock ears and popping people with toy phasers.
These people are most often found at conventions.
         A trekker also has intimate knowledge of the show, but he exerts his
Star TRek energy by probing into the philosophical meaning of Star Trek, 
inventing solutions to contradictions in the series etc.

        -- Andy the Trekker

A simple problem:  if something's "popular," someone nowadays tries to
                   write a book around it.  There have been _Star_Trek_ 
                   books, _Space_1999_ books, _Star_Wars_ books, etc.,
                   mostly uncanonical (The silliest of these, to my mind,
                   was the *book* titled _Star_Trek_The_Movie_).  In the
                   1930s and 1940s, Whitman Publishers did a series of
                   books derived from famous comic strips (e.g., _Smilin'
                   _Jack_and_the_Daredevil_Girl_Pilot_ -- which, by the way,
                   was adapted from the newspaper comic-strip sequence,
                   "the Hot Rock Glide," and had practically *nothing* to
                   do with girl pilots, daredevil or otherwise); these were
                   terrible.  So my impression of a series based on some-
                   thing from another medium.  Even novelizing a screen play
                   is usually bad enough ...

                   Now if there *are* good stories buried among Sturgeon's
                   Majority, I'm rather loath to plow through the 90% in
                   hopes of finding the 10%.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

  I've read a few of the ST novels in hopes of finging a few gems.  Some of
the plot synopses(sp?  plural of synopsis at any rate) were so silly that I 
wouldn't read them.  However the ones that I have read have yielded a few good
ones.  Some where way back in this file you'll find my review of the Final
Reflection.  I also liked the entropy effect and trekker though I am, I wasn't
bothered by the universe inconsistencies, they were minor enough and the plot
was gripping enough.  It's been a few years since I read it and all I 
remember is the good so it can't have been too inconsistent.  I, for one,
thouroughly enjoyed Hambly's Ishmael.  Of couse you have to realize that I 
like Hambly very much.  (Way back in this file, you will also find my reviews 
of her other books.)  I also *blush* admit to a prepubescent crush on Bobby
Sherman, teen idol of the late 60 and star of Here come the Brides so I was 
fairly familiar with the series at one time.  ( What can I say? I was only 
about 8 or so when the show was on.)  
   A few of the ones I've read have been real dogs.  Covenant of the crown 
comes to mind.  Don't remember anything aboutit except that I was *not* 
impressed, amused or even distracted by it for very long.
   "Uhura's song" was enjoyable and had the rare virtue of introducing a major
female character who intrigued Spock intellectually, and others in other ways,
without feeling obliged to provide a romance.


tlh

re:.5

Gee, Trace, would my girlfriend like to talk with you...

She's been incredibly frustrated because she can't find another person who
watched the tv show HERE COME THE BRIDES (though lots have seen the movie
from which it's derived), and thus can't discuss the fine nuances of ISHMAEL.

--- jerry

P.S. I'm "saving myself" until my friend finishes her Trek novel. :-)

	(Well, I confess that I *did* read SPOCK MUST DIE when it was first
	published.)

Regarding Star Trek novels - the only full-length novels I've read are
the movie-based ones, which were primarily useful for picking up the
bits that got cut from the films. I did read a magnificent short story
(or novella, it was longish), something to do with the Gate through Time -
the same one that sent Kirk, Spock, and McCoy to the late '30s in the
TV series. At the time, the story struck me as memorable, well-written,
and true to the spirit of the series; however, it couldn't have been all
that memorable, since I've forgotten both the author's name and the title
of the book. (The story appeared in a collection of ST-based stories, most
of which were REALLY forgettable.) I may have kept the book for the sake of
the one story, but wouldn't bet on it. If I can find it I'll post the
pertinent data (unless Jerry beats me to it!).

Re .5, .6:

Hooray! More "Brides" fans! (But I haven't read "Ishmael", so I can't
discuss what finer points there may be.) There is, of course, another
link between "Brides" and "Star Trek", in the person of Mark Lenard, who
portrayed the money-conscious mill owner in "Brides" - quite a contrast
from either of his "Star Trek" roles.

[Some "Brides" trivia that ought to go into TV.NOT, but I'm here so -

Name the "Hill Street Blues" regulars that had guest appearances on "Brides".]

-b

OK, I'll admit it in public. I too am a Brides fan. Say hello to your
friend for me Jerry, I also found a lot of small discrepancies that I
had no one to share with between Brides and Ishmael.

More trivia. Mark Lenard wasn't the only person on Brides who was also
on Trek. Who was (were) the others?
kris

re:.7

Well, there were two anthologies of STAR TREK stories reprinted from fan
publications: STAR TREK: THE NEW VOYAGES and STAR TREK: THE NEW VOYAGES II.
They were published circa 1976-77. They're packed away at home (I'm moving)
and my reference books are not with me, so I can't say which story you're
referring to, Beth.

--- jerry

The best Star Trek story I ever read actually was not set in the ST 
universe at all.  It was "Beam Me Home" by James Tiptree, and can be 
found in the "Ten Thousand Light Years From Home" anthology.  I can't 
say much about it without ruining it, and Tiptree's style is hard to 
describe anyhow, but I think it does summarize what the show's real 
appeal was.

/jlr

  Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!!  I get to beat Jerry to one!
  Beth, the story to which you were refering is from Star Trek: the new
Voyages.  It's the Mind-Sifter by Shirley S. Maiewski.  (At last a terminal
at home so I can look things up while there are on the screen and I won't 
forget!)

tlh

GOOD HEAVENS! Maiewski? Really?

When I first started at DEC, I worked in MK, and met a fellow named George
Maiewski whose mother was described to me as an avid Trek fan (I'm going
to avoid the Trekkie-Trekker-Trekkist distinction because I can't remember
which is supposed to be which). This was several years after I read the
story, and I didn't make any connection at the time.

Small universe, eh, what?

-b

    	I know Shirley Maiewski very well; in fact, she lives in my
    old home town of Hatfield, Mass.  (YES, there is life beyond
    Worcester!).She is currently working in the textbook Annex of the
    University of Massachusetts in Amherst.  She is a lovely lady who
    really knows the score on all the ST productions.
    	I remember meeting her while I was going through my interviews
    for DEC, and she told me about her son working here.  She also said
    she had confidence I would make it - boy, were truer words never
    said!
    	I just HAD to show off a little!
    
    	Larry
    

      I also know Shirley Maiewski. She is my mother. She said that
    I would do well at Dec also. At least she hoped so.
    
      She still goes to all of the conventions and knows most of the
    people in the cast. I remember when she wrote the story. She had
    lots of fun doing it. Even bought a new typewritter as I remember.
    
      George

    Iam not what i would call a "Trekie".I don't like the original series, 
    but I do love the Star Trek movie's and the novels.
    
    Can any of you recomend good Star trek novels? I have read
    Battlestations, Strangers from the sky, Enterprise, and a few more.
    I would love to hear which ones are good.
    
    thanks 
    Dave
    p.s. Has anyone heard of the up and coming Star Trek 6 ?
    

    The previous reply was moved by a Moderator (me) to this topic.
    
    For discussion of the ST6 film, see Topic #962 in this conference,
    or Topic #3163 in EOT::MOVIES.
    
    And there's also another conference, NOTED::STAR_TREK. I know you
    said you're not a fan of the original series, but a lot of discussion
    of the movies and novels is done there.
    
    --- jerry

    I'm not much of a Star Trek fan either, but I did enjoy John
    Ford's ST novel, "The Final Reflection".  It doesn't contain any
    of the regular characters, except for a cameo of Spock as a boy. 
    Instead, it's told entirely from the point of view of a Klingon
    captain.  He's as bold and brave as Kirk, but since he's a Klingon
    he's also a ruthless killer.  In fact, there's even a Klingon
    holo-show analogous to ST, where every week the Battleship
    Vengeance goes out to ravage another planet for the Empire.  
    
    The captain is sent on a delicate diplomatic mission to the
    Federation, since he's considered expendable.  These humans are
    impossible to fathom, after all.  Did you know that a human will
    go into a room full of other humans completely unarmed?  Madness.  
    
    Anyway, it's a nice slant on a setting that I thought was
    completely mined out.  It just goes to show what a good author
    can do with the most worked-over ore.
    
    /jlr

    Try Vendetta, it is a ST:TNG novel and it si VERY good.
    
    Tony