T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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160.1 | | SE780::FSSUG | | Tue Dec 04 1984 10:37 | 26 |
| What I feel the reason that the first book is in paper and the
second is hard id that the publisher wants to gauge the popularity
of the books before going to the added expence of hardcover. I bought
the entire "Dream Dancer" series in paper. I liked it so much that
I ordered the entire series in hardcover for my library, with no problem.
Since the author is payed a percentage or "royalty" I would think that
he would may more money off of hardcover.
The series that I spoke of above is an excellent series. The three books are:
1) Dream Dancer
2) Crusier Dreams
3) Earth Dreams
They are business politic oriented. I have tried to think of away to give
you an idea of what they are about, but they are fairly complex. I read them
3 times before what was going on was clear. Let me say that you won't be
dissappointed.
Any way back to the question at hand. If the publisher finds that the series
is popular then he will normally go back anc re-issue the first book in
hardcover. most of the above is my opinion in dealling with the same problem.
john m.
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160.2 | | ROYAL::RAVAN | | Tue Dec 04 1984 11:28 | 4 |
| I suspect that the season may have a little to do with it, too.
After all, hardcovers make better Christmas presents than paperbacks...
-b
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160.3 | | LATOUR::MCCUTCHEON | | Tue Dec 04 1984 18:17 | 9 |
| I've always had the impression that publishers make more money off of
hardcover books. When we talk of well-selling authors (like Anthony)
I can easily see them issuing the format that makes them the most money
first. I wait for paperbacks, since they are cheaper, and smaller (easier
to store on limited shelf space).
(I have had a hard time waiting for the Kurtz and Anthony books mentioned
in the first message, but then being behind in my reading and having other
things to read helps my self-control!)
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160.4 | | HAMLET::WILSON | | Wed Dec 05 1984 16:10 | 9 |
| I agree it can be an annoyance to have to wait for a favorite to come out
in paperback. However, I will collect my favorites in hardcover because
they are more durable.
I bought "Bishop's Heir" in hardcover. I will be going out to get the other
six in hardcover when I can afford it. (Not all at once, I'm not rich.
After all I work at DEC)
steve wilson
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160.5 | | PARROT::BLOTCKY | | Thu Dec 06 1984 05:33 | 8 |
| I think sequels to a successful book are more likely to come out in hardcover
months before paperback, just so people waiting to read them shell out more
money rather than wait. I see the same thing happening with trade (large
format paperback) editions - is there really $4-6 more paper in the larger book?
I buy only paperbacks because they are smaller - as I buy 10-20 books a month,
I always seem to have more books than shelf space!
Steve
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160.6 | | TONTO::COLLINS | | Thu Dec 06 1984 16:21 | 5 |
| Julian May's books were all released in hard covers first.
I read them all through my local library as they were released.
bob
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160.7 | | MAGRAT::SIMO | | Mon Dec 10 1984 07:15 | 5 |
| Can anyone give me some help with finding a bookstore that has the DUNE
series in hardcover. Everwhere I looked the SiFi section is just in
paperback.
Rick
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160.8 | | AKOV68::BOYAJIAN | | Tue Dec 11 1984 07:25 | 48 |
| Being a hardcore Collector, I should perhaps put my two cents in.
I feel the same desire that you do Chuck, to have series in "uniform editions".
It is somewhat annoying when one or two are paperback only, and the rest in
hardcover. Of course, the hardcover ones will eventually come out in paper,
and thus, I can get my "uniform set", but that still leaves an incomplete
hardcover set.
Part of this is the economics of publishing. The publisher certainly stands to
make a better profit from hardcover sales (and yes, the author makes more, too).
On the other hand, there can also be a larger profit loss if the book's a flop.
In some cases, a series has to "prove" itself before some hardcover publishers
will take a chance on it.
In some of the cases you mention, such as the Anthony series, or the May series,
they definitely appeared in hardcover first, right from the beginning. In few
cases are paperback originals reissued in hardcover once they have been success-
ful. Exceptions that I can think of are LeGuin's early novels (ROCANNON'S
WORLD, PLANET OF EXILE, CITY OF ILLUSIONS), Niven's RINGWORLD, and McCaffrey's
first two Pern books. Back in the late 1960's, there was a publishing house,
Walker (who's still around, though they aren't still carrying out this practice)
which had a line of sf titles that were hardcover editions of paperback origin-
als. And nowadays, there are companies like Garland Press and Gregg Press who
make a practice out of issuing books in hardcover (mostly for libraries) that
previously appeared only in paperback or whose hardcover editions had long gone
out of print.
The only way to deal with this situation is to buy the paperback to maintain
your "uniform set". If you can't wait to read it, make sure your local library
gets a copy of the hardcover, and read that. Or join the SF Book Club. Many of
their selections are hardcover editions (albeit cheaply made ones) of otherwise
paperback-only titles.
As for hardcover/paperback scheduling, the rule of thumb is one year between
hardcover and paperback editions, regardless of genre. Occasional exceptions
are made, depending upon publishers and situations. Example: If Putnam publishes
a hardcover that is to come out in paper by Berkley, the gap is more like 6-8
months (Putnam and Berkley are the same people). The same may be true of Del
Rey Books, though I haven't timed them. A situational example: Stephen King's
CHRISTINE took only 7-8 months between editions, because the paperback was
published early to tie in with the movie. As far as bestsellers go, the opposite
from what you say is more likely: the more copies are sold in hardcover, the
longer it is likely to be before it's released in paperback, so that all the
sales from the hardcover can be milked dry.
Well, I've rambled enough.
--- jerry
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160.9 | | AKOV68::BOYAJIAN | | Tue Dec 11 1984 07:31 | 13 |
| re:.7
Regarding the Dune series: HERETICS OF DUNE (the latest one) is, of course,
still available in hardcover, and Putnam has issued its first hardcover
edition of DUNE (it was previously published by Chilton, and they kept it
constantly in print since 1965). I don't believe that the middle three are
still available in hardcover though, except maybe in a used-book store.
The best source for a hardcover set of the series is the SF Book Club (its
possible that Book-of-the-Month Club or somesuch will also offer a set of
them from time to time).
--- jerry
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160.10 | | NY1MM::SWEENEY | | Tue Jan 01 1985 21:03 | 19 |
| This problem has only been looked at from the SF collectors point of view.
Publishers, distributors, and retailers see things quite differently.
Hardcovers exist for bookstore sales, libraries, and book clubs. Well
established authors appear in hardcover and these books have higher markup and
that means more profits for all concerned. Unknown authors typically appear in
paper first and those books are sold through many, many more outlets.
Publishers believe that they can make a profit with a new author on a press of
50,000 in paper, but never on 10,000 in hardcover.
A bookstore with customers that are willing to spend $15 to $20 on a hardcover
can hold a bigger inventory than your local drugstore. As a consequence the SF
collector will see only a few titles in hardcover and many in paper for an
author. And on the other hand, some will complain that the newest titles only
available in more expensive hardcover.
SF is a business.
Pat Sweeney
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160.11 | | AKOV68::BOYAJIAN | | Fri Jan 04 1985 07:49 | 13 |
| One of the biggest holes in that theory is that there is an increasing
number of new authors who have their first novels not only coming out in
hardcover, but with a huge advertising blitz attached.
The most prominent example I can think of off-hand is Stephen R. Donaldson.
No one heard of him until Holt, Rinehart released all three of the first
Thomas Covenant series virtually simultaneously in hardcover.
I won't deny that sf is a business. The publishers wouldn't be publishing
it if they didn't think they could make money. But, it's not quite the
black-and-white world that you paint, either.
--- jerry
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160.12 | | KOALA::BURR | | Fri Jan 04 1985 12:39 | 8 |
| I believe the Donaldson trilogy was an exception to the normal publishing
sequence. What I've heard is that the trilogy was originally scheduled to be
released in paperback (by Ballantine, I think) with a special hardcover
edition from the Science Fiction Book Club. After the SF Book Club edition
was released, the original intention for a pb release was reversed and the
actual first non-book club publication was in hardback.
Rod Burr
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160.13 | | OLORIN::ROBINSON | | Sat Jan 05 1985 22:57 | 5 |
| I heard that Donaldson tried selling his first trilogy for several years,
and it wasn't until Del Rey (Ballantine) saw the series that it was picked up.
I also heard Del Rey was amazed that no one had wanted it.
-Andy-
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160.14 | | XENON::MUNYAN | | Mon Feb 11 1985 00:41 | 72 |
| Here are a few facts from someone that has been in the bookstore business.
(My father has owned a bookstore for 30 years).
The markup on paperbacks and hardcover books is exactly the same. The only
difference occurs when you buy them in dumps (those nice looking floor or
counter racks). Typically buying a dump gets you an additional 5-10% discount.
On the whole bookstores hate hardcover books as much as you do. The real
problem with them is that sooner or later almost everything comes out in
paper back. The reason for this is that if you have a $9.95 hardcover book
with a really nice binding, paper, etc) and a $4.95 or worse yet $2.95
paperback comes out your stuck.
The "extra profit" that people were talking about in
previous notes is for the publisher NOT the stores.
When a paper back comes out and we still have hardcover copies of the same
book we've just inherited "dead stock". Over the years we've tried everything
from marking hardcovers down to $1.99 to my favorite test of a customers
basic intellegence:
We'd like take the $9.95 hardcover book, mark it down to $3.00 (just 5 cents
more than the paper back, and put them side by side on the rack. Believe it
or not, people will buy the paper back instead of the hardcover. If I live
to be 100 I'll never figure this out.
For those of you who are interested in the actual discount schedules, the
following discount schedule is standard throughout the bookstore trade:
Textbooks (Wholesale value < $500) 20% These companies
Textbooks (Wholesale value > $500) 25% really screw stores
Paper Backs & Hardcover (< 10 titles) 10% - 20%
Paper Backs & Hardcovers (> 10 titles) 40%
Small Counter top dumps 40% - 42%
Large Floor stand dumps 45% - 50%
There is also an organization called the American Booksellers Association
which has setup a system called STOP (Single Title Order Plan) that allows
stores to order single titles from a publisher and get a 20% discount. This
is useful when you only want 1 book and don't want to buy $20.00 - $50.00
wholesale from the publisher to get 1 book. These forms cost about $1.00
each which is yet another cost that eats into your profit. Especially if
your special ordering a book that only costs ~$5.00 (that's why most stores
won't special order books from obscure companies).
One thing that helps booksellers are jobbers that are essentially distributors
for lots of different companies. They normally carry all the popular stuff
and send out copies of their inventories on microfiche every week for
stores to order from. They offer 40% discount if you buy at least $100
retail.
Slow moving books can often be returned to the publisher after 90 days
and before 120 days with a 15% restocking fee. This only works if you
purchased the book directly from the publisher and the books are still
on the publishers return list. Typically whenever a hardcover comes out
in paper back it is dropped from the return list. Distributors do NOT accept
returns.
In addtion to this, the above discounts do NOT include postage and insurance
on the books while they are in transit. This is where hardcovers really hurt.
Since a hardcover weighs almost 2 to 2.5 times as much as a standard paperback
the cost to ship it reduces the profit level even more.
In addition, hardcover books take up more rack space, get "shop worn" more
easily and have a shorter "life span" than paper backs. All this adds up to
yet another reason why both the store and the customer are best served by
selling only paper back books.
Steve
Hopefully this information has spread a little light on the book selling
business.
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160.15 | | ORAC::BUTENHOF | | Fri Feb 15 1985 10:39 | 12 |
| I would buy a paperback edition even with a hardcover edition sitting next
to it costing $0.05 more -- or even $0.05 less. There's no mystery: hardcover
books take up more space, and I have little enough space as it is for my
paperback collection. Furthermore, hardcover books do not fit well on a
paperback-sized book shelf (which I really intend to build one of these
years! :-)). Also, I seldom read a book in a fixed place (well, more now
than I used to, but still ...): I tend to carry it about with me, and
paperbacks are far more convenient to carry (in high school I used to stuff
them in my back pocket). Finally, I've been reading paperbacks for so long
I almost feel uncomfortable with the larger hardcover format.
/dave
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160.16 | | CASTOR::MELVIN | | Sat Feb 16 1985 21:51 | 10 |
| I have yet to see ANY hardcover book worth reading that has been marked down
to anything reasonable. I prefer the hardcover to paperback due to the
'lasting' qualities thereof (assuming I don't set it down in a pool of water
or a pile of listings or whatever). True, they are less convenient in terms
of portability but I think the quality definitely makes up for it.
(So where's this store running the base+.05 price for the hardcover? Still
in business? :-) :-) )
-Joe
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