Conference noted::sf

Just as a thought ---

	How about a "Bragonriders of Pern" movie ??????

re: 29.1

	Great idea. It even has built in sequels. Now if someone
	could convince Hollywood......

	Moreta probably shouldn't be considered a "long awaited return" -
    it took at least as long for White Dragon to come out.  We're in the
    same position as you - interested, but unwilling to buy the hardback.

							dan

   I'd love to see a Pern movie except I shudder to think of what they might
to the dragons.  Maybe if they got the special effects guys from Dragonslayer...
(A movie which in my opinion was pretty forgetable except for the excellent job they did with special effects.)


tlh

	My wife (who's a BIG fan) says don't bother.

	She says it was ok until the ending...it was sad and
	she doesn't like sad endings.  She also says that she
	doesn't think it was upto par with McGraffy's first books.

	Bob Sanders

According to the latest LOCUS magazine (bought at BOSKONE (plug))
Ms McCaffery admitted in an interview/feature article that she had spent
the last little while working on a screenplay for the movie "Dragonflight"!!!

She would not say who the producer was, and there was no information as to
casting/technical stuff/release date/prduction starting....

Nigel

A couple of replies back, someone shuddered at what a movie might do to
McCaffrey's dragons.  Since everyone's used to Michael Whelan's dragons
on her covers, such "shuddering" might be well-founded if she has enough
production control.  At the first Boskone I attended ('79?), McCaffrey
mentioned in a talk that while she liked Whelan's dragons, she did NOT
think that they looked at all like her image of them; she just hasn't
gotten an artist to quite get the image out of her head right.  If she
were to manage, you might find the dragons looking quite different,
for a movie or even future books ...

	/dave

When I first read the dragon books several years ago, the dragons pictured on
the covers were quite different than they are now.  I really hate the dragons
as they now appear.  I really like the ones that were on the covers of the older
editions.  I don't know who the artist of the original covers is or why he/she
was superseded by whoever is doing the covers now.  Anyone know the story?

I was dying to read "Moreta" when it first came out, but I miserly held off
until SF Book Club offered it.  I liked it, but was shocked and surprised by
the ending, which took me completely off guard.  I sort of skimmed through
my copies of the other Dragonriders books to see whether there were any
references to the ending of "Moreta" when they mentioned "The Ballad of Moreta's
ride," but to no avail (I wasn't very patient or thorough, I must admit).

I would LOVE to see a Dragonriders movie, as long as the dragons don't look
like they do on the current book covers...

							-- Nina

Well, if you don't like the current covers (by Michael Whelan), I'm
afraid you're out of luck. From what I've heard, McCaffrey loves them.
I, too, preferred the previous covers (on DRAGONFLIGHT and DRAGONQUEST
anyway), which were by Gino D'Achille. My personal favorites, however,
were the paintings by John Schoenherr for the original appearances of
those two books in ANALOG SF MAGAZINE back in the mid-sixties.
	The problem I have with the current Whelan covers is that the
dragons look too much like pterodactyls.

--- jerry

It seems to me that "Moreta" suffers from the same symptoms that a lot
of sequels suffer from:

The telling of an interesting story that must end abruptly because

	1) the author got tired of it

or

	2) the publisher would only print a book of x pages in length

i admit to being a tad disconcerted by the sudden disappearance of 
Moreta in the book. In fact, I re-read the section between her climbing
on the dragon (tired but happy) and the end about eight times to be sure that 
i hadn't missed some subtle hint as to what might have happened.

Oh well
I still like the Dragonriders series. It will make a great movie

    Has anyone read McCaffrey's Harper Hall series?  The books are shorter
    and intended for a younger audience, and they were the first ones
    of hers I read (at the age of twelve).  Anyway, in Dragonsinger
    there is a description of the "Ballad of Moreta's Ride," which mostly
    corresponds with the plot of Moreta.  I enjoyed the Harper Hall
    trilogy for its focus on music and its young characters, and still
    do, but like Nerilka's Story, the books are rather short and simple
    (although I thought the Harper Hall stories much better than
    Nerilka's.)
    
    LDA

    re:.14
    
    I think the three Harper Hall novels are better than any of the
    others. DRAGONDRUMS was relatively weak, but the first two are
    definitely the best of the Pern books.
    
    --- jerry

    I had owned the first of the HarperHall novels for years, and never
    read it.  Then I read all of the DragonRider trilogy, and went back
    and read the Harper Hall books, since I liked Pern, etc.  I thought
    they were all good.  Those two trilogies, for me, stood up to
    rereading, the Dragonriders more than once.  I was never able to
    get through Moreta again, tho.
    
                                                             -John.

    As I was reading the second book I realized why I liked it--here
    was someone on Pern without a huge fire-breating dragon to back
    him up!  Plus I like the exploring-an-empty-continent theme.
    
    						Don

    
    SECOND book?  Title, please?  
    
    I assume, from the comment on somebody WITHOUT a dragon
    to back him up, that you're talking about Piemur in
    _Dragondrums_.  That doesn't match with the SECOND
    part, though - _Dragondrums_ was third, after the
    two about Menolly (_Dragonsong_ and _Dragonsinger_,
    I think the titles are).  
    
                                - Ed -

    Note:  I didn't say I got the idea from the second book, I said
    it occured to me while I was reading it.  Kind of like remembering
    you have pants ready to pick up at the cleaners while you're folding 
    laundry.
    
    						Don
    P.S.  I get the impression you've read them recently.  They're
          'oldies' (comp. spkng.); I thought I did well to remember
          I *read* them....
    

    
    No, I haven't read them recently (defined as "in the last 2 years").
    They WERE unusual, and stuck in my memory better than some
    others, but, as best I can remember, I haven't read any of
    the Pern stories more than twice.  
    
    Yes, I do have a fairly good retention.... I once got accused
    of "cheating" in High School.... my scores on a series of
    reading tests were high enough that the teacher asked me to
    stay after class. There, in private, I was asked (forcefully)
    how I had obtained the test beforehand...  I had to retake
    a brand new test to convince her.  (This is sometimes a curse..
    thinking you remember something, but not QUITE sure.... or
    remembering one of "those" stories that you'd rather FORGET!)
    
                                       - Ed -

    You remind me of a glue that works too good....
    
    							Don

	I've read every book she ever wrote and liked them all execpt Moreta, I
never even finished it!  I liked the White Dragon thhe most and i also liked 
another book she put out, Crystal Singer(i think)! As for a movie i doon't think
it could be done very well unless they spent lots of money on it and had the 
best producers, directors, and F/X people!


Nathan...

    I didn't like these books.
    
    The dragons are too powerful--they can fly, they can breath fire
    (more or less), they are intelligent, they are telepathic, they
    can teleport, they can travel in time.  They make no sense as
    real animals.  One can only assume they are created (probably with
    an external power source the characters in the stories don't see--
    have you tried to make elephants fly recently, even on a diet of
    meat?), and that the whole threads/dragon set-up is artificial--
    perhaps the remnants of a by-gone war between really intelligent
    aliens.
    
    The author overloads on the assumptions behind the stories.
    Just one of the facts above would make a good plot.  The Dragon-<foo>
    books are just a line of pseudo-midaevalist fantasy.
    
    				-John Bishop

    Two comments:
    
    My Grampa always said "opinions are like rectums" (actually he
    used a cruder word than "rectum").  "Everybody has one.  You
    may think that it stinks, but they ARE entitled to keep it!"
    
    So what if it's "just .... fantasy" ??  It's FUN to read!
    
                            - Ed -

    Re: last

    Boy, one negative opinion of this dragon poop and people are ready to
    trot out the old "Opinions are like assholes" saw. So much for rebuttal.

    How can you enjoy a story if you do not agree with/believe/accept 
    the basic premise or plotline?  If you thought the idea of invisiblilty
    was absurd and couldn't even accept it for the length of the book,
    would you think there would be a chance of enjoying Wells' THE 
    INVISIBLE MAN?
                                         
    Tough to do, I reckon.  I find Fantasy hard to read for this reason.
    
    If memory serves, the dragons were "constructed" to combat Thread.
    That's pretty thin, but I overlooked it as I thought being
    Impressed to a fire-breathing dragon beat the ol' 8:15-to-5:00.
    And that's the main reason I read SF.
    
    						Don

   "The Invisible Man" (quotes standing in for italics) has only 
    one counter-factual new assumption--that some method exists to
    make living flesh invisible.  It works out the consequences
    carefully (e.g. food being digested).
    
    The drangon books have many counter-factual new assumptions:
    
    1.	Flying animals bigger than elephants
    2.	Fire-"breathing" animals
    3.	Teleportation
    4.	Time Travel
    5.	Telepathy
    6.	Threads
    7.	Human settlement on this world but no sign of
    	startravel (where are the other humans?).
    
    The whole orbital set-up might qualify as an assumption, but I'm
    generous--I'll grant such an orbit without quibling.
    
    I'd like it all a lot more if McCafferty left hints that a
    human settlement created the dragons a long time ago using
    genetic engineering and then lost civilization in a major
    war/disturbance, regressing to barbarism.  I'd still balk
    at the power required for the dragons to fly, and the
    presumed expensive operations of teleportation and time
    travel.
    
    Picking just one or two of the assumptions would work a lot
    better, in my opinion, and giving a pseuo-reasonable explaination
    (either explicitly or by hints) of those two would make it fun.
    
    			-John Bishop

    re:.27
    
    How many of the books have you read?
    
    Regarding the human settlement of Pern, there are clues all
    around that Pern was settled by humans, and that the first
    Threadfall destroyed much of the technology, causing them to
    regress to a neo-barbaric state.
    
    At the end of THE WHITE DRAGON, they discover the (or one of
    the) ship(s) that brought their ancestors to Pern.
    
    There are also various clues that the Dragons were genetically
    engineered from the fire-lizards.
    
    --- jerry

    Not only do they outright state that the Dragons were genetically
    altered fire lizrds, but also that the Ancients had genetically
    created the grubs that were found on the Southern Continent to
    destroy the threads that got past the dragons, and that the dragons
    had originally been intended not as the main defense of the planet,
    but as the visible defense, since the Ancients didn't think (quite
    rightly) that people would be able to feel gratitude to grubs.
    
                                                           -John.

    I'd only read two of them--I forget which.  If some of this
    is being explained, I will withdraw my objections.
    
    Is this happening in book XXXXIII, or less recently?
    
    				-John Bishop

    re:.30
    
    It depends on how you count. Most of the explanation is in THE
    WHITE DRAGON, which is the third in the main series.
    
    --- jerry

    Well John, I guess you hit it right on the head why some people like
    science fiction over fantasy. 

    I occasionally correspond with Anne McC, and the last letter I had
    ('s about a 3 month turnaround, she's a *BUSY* lady!) hinted that
    a new dragon book would be out (in the US first, as always!) maybe
    next spring; but I got the feeling that it would deal with the earlier
    history of Pern, and I'm dying to find out what happens when they
    continue the excavation of the Southern Continent!
    
    Meanwhile, of course, we've got Nerilka's Story, filling in a few
    gaps around Moreta, and why the later version of the story differed,
    a sequel to the Crystal Singer (possibly the best she has written?
    - the sequel, that is) and The Coelura (sp?) which is different to 
    everything she's written, so let's just hope she keeps it up. 
                            

    	According to LOCUS, DRAGONDAAN will be out in Dec (?).  (I don't
    have it in front of my so it may be Nov, but I'm 100% sure it's
    due before years end and 95% sure it's Dec.)
    
    	DRAGONDAWN will focus on the period right after Planetfall.
    
    tlh
      

    The first edition service I am currently trying out listed McCaffrey as
    one of the authors they will be offering. 

Re .34

DRAGONDAWN is due out in November, not December, from Del Rey in
hardcover.  No doubt it will hit the stores sometime in October,
in order to allow enough time for the book to hit the bestseller
lists in time for the Christmas bookbuying season.

				Andrew

Re .36

Would the first person to see DRAGONDAWN please let us all know?

<Would the first person to see DRAGONDAWN please let us all know?

	Saw it in Waldenbooks, Colorado Springs yesterday!

    In paperback, or am I dreaming?
    
    Willie
    

re .39
    
    Not until Jun '89.  Sorry.

    I just picked up a copy of it in hardcover on Friday at Northshore
    Mall just (1/2 hour) north of Boston.  I've only read about 100
    pages so far and it's fantastic!  It's especially interesting to
    try and keep track of the characters with last names like Benden
    and Nabol and ... 
    
    Willie

	There is a review of in the September or October '88 Locas.

	I'm about a 3rd of the way through and have been enjoying 
	it.

    Would anyone like to do a costing for air-mailing me a copy of
    DRAGONDAWN?  I've found out from bookshops here that all new releases
    are about eight months behind the USA.  I'm not sure if I can bear
    to wait that long, given that you are already talking about it!
    
    (Here is Sydney, Australia)

    James Cameron                 (The MERON in my name is purely accidental! :)

    It's at Caldor's in hardcover.  For, I believe, their usual 
    15%-off-the-list.
    
    							Don

    I just finished Dragonsdawn, and overall I liked it.  It took me a bit
    to get into it since I think it starts off slow.  It suffers from the
    usual problem of being a prequel in that you know what is going to
    happen if you have read the other Pern books.  The pace does pick up
    and draw you in to the individual characters' problems to take your
    mind off the global problems you know will be solved. 
    
    There is a reference to some theory ascribed to two scientists. I can't
    remember the name of the theory (I'm lousy with names), but it had
    something to do with extraterrestrial life forms and was used in
    reference to the appearance of Thread.  McCaffery seemed to assume that
    her readers knew what the theory was, I didn't. Does anyone? 

    In the edition I have, there is an introduction written by John Gunn.
    It is mainly about McCaffrey.  He has some quotes from her on the
    science fiction/fantasy debate over her works.  She claims her Pern
    series is science fiction since everything is based on technology and
    rational explanations and extrapolations.  There is no magic involved.
    _Dragonsdawn_ gives the scientific explanation of the development of
    the dragons, and the sociological reasons for the set up of the
    medieval-style society established by the original colonists. 

    re -1
    
    So how does she explain _between_?  Enquiring minds want to know.
    
    	Merryl

    
    ref. the E.T. life theory...
    
    Maybe by (Long-Indian-Name) and Hoyle? They claim that planets
    can be "seeded" by precursors of protein that are formed in inter
    stellar clouds.

    re.47:  Thanks, I think that's it.
    
    re.46: (possible spoiler, so it's after the form feed)
    
    
    
    The dragons' ability to go 'between' is a survival instinct bred over
    from the fire lizards (the dragons are bioengineered from the fire
    lizards).  It is simply a telekinetic ability which was developed to
    avoid thread, which may or may not be science depending on how you view
    such things.  I suppose there is as much science in that as FTL travel. 

    
    Hi there!  I'm new to the SF notes file.  My name is Roslyn Reed.
    
    I am an avid reader of Anne McCaffery and last night found Moreta,
    the hardcover edition for $2.50 at K-Mart in Billerica, MA.  I have
    been trying to get all of Anne McCaffery's books in hardcover since
    my first two Dragonriders books (10+? yrs old) have started to fall
    apart.
    
    I got hooked on Anne McCaffery very early on and had to WAIT for
    each of the books to be written.  I think I have them all since
    I got DRAGONDAWN as a stocking stuffer this Christmas.  I also got
    a new book called PEOPLE OF PERN.  Anne McCaffery collaborated with
    an artist (don't recall who but will enter the info if anyone is
    interested) to draw the different characters from the Dragonriders
    and Harperhall series.  There is also a brief description of everyone.
    I haven't finished it yet but it is interesting to see if these
    pictures are close to what we've imagined the characters to look
    like.
    
    I also got another book by McCaffery which is not SF but appears
    to be straight ficition called LADY.  Haven't read it yet but it
    does look interesting and if it's like all other McCaffery stories,
    it should be good.
    
    Until next time,
    
    Roslyn
    
    P.S.  As the others have noted, there are specific references to
    the existance of technology and that technology being "lost" over
    the centuries.  See WHITE DRAGON(& earlier)-Jaxom and Flessean (sp?) getting
    lost in the lower caverns and finding rooms with the "flame throwers".
    These were refurbished so that the Queens could also fight thread.
    How about the referred to "mystery" of how the weyrs were constructed
    in the mountain ranges and how one (can't remember which one) seemed
    to be cruder than the others, as if the ancestors had run out of
    the cutting materials.  The evidence is all there if you read the
    stories thoroughly.  Plus SF is good escapism from the realities
    of life.  I know I wouldn't mind impressing a dragon or a fire lizard!

    Re: Note 29.49 by MARKER::REED

>   How about the referred to "mystery" of how the weyrs were constructed
>   in the mountain ranges and how one (can't remember which one) seemed
>   to be cruder than the others, as if the ancestors had run out of
>   the cutting materials.
    
    From reading DRAGONSDAWN it is seems likely that they just ran out
    of spare parts for the cutting tools.  The Forward in a few books
    mentions something about running out of fuel for the cutting machines,
    so maybe they lost the use of their electrical generators.
    
    Read on only if you've read DRAGONSDAWN...
    
    Imagine the next episode... Jaxom finds the satellite link in the
    meteorology tower near the old runway for the shuttles, [the link
    was left behind after the exodus] learns how to use it (by going between
    times for a few months, with Sharra), calls up a current video picture
    of the inside of the spaceships, goes between to the spaceship and
    starts exploring. 
    
    What will he do if he finds a good picture of Earth?

    re: gene splicing
    
    <spoiler warning>
    
    
    I found the creation of the dragons fascinating.  however, I don't
    understand how they got so much bigger with one generation.  The
    part about changing the genes is great (consistent with real gene
    splicing) but how did they get the eggs big enough?  did they
    artificially grow the shells around the genetic matter and then
    put them in the pseudo-nest?
    
    two other questions I dont remember answers to:
    
    1.  why did they call it 'pern'?
    
    2.  why do dragon names end in '-th'?
    

    Re: Note 29.51 by DISCVR::NOLL

>   <spoiler warning>

>   I found the creation of the dragons fascinating.  however, I don't
>   understand how they got so much bigger with one generation.  The
>   part about changing the genes is great (consistent with real gene
>   splicing) but how did they get the eggs big enough?  did they
>   artificially grow the shells around the genetic matter and then
>   put them in the pseudo-nest?

    The way I understand it, is that the egg is created by the ?zygote?
    as it grows.  I could be very wrong - I never did biology.  How
    does a chicken do it?

>   1.  why did they call it 'pern'?
    
    Never found out.  I'll read it again...

>   2.  why do dragon names end in '-th'?
    
    Nice question, also never found out.  Which reminds me, how do you
    pronounce Ruth (Jaxom's White)?  I've always assumed "rooth", but
    why not "ru -th" (as in "cut").

    in re eggs...
    
    An egg and a sperm create a zygote (aka fertilized egg). In
    an animal with a shell the shell is excreted around the fertilized
    (or unfertilzed egg if the female does not mate) in the oviduct.
    The shell is laid down originally as a thin membrane that then
    thickens as it moves down the oviduct. In a reptile the shell
    remains leathery and flexible, in a bird, calcium compounds harden
    the shell. The size of the egg that is laid is essentially determined
    by the size of the yolk and white material that is surrounded by
    the first thin membrane.
    
    This means that they did more than just alter the DNA that encoded
    for the adult dragons. They also had to alter the size of the yolk
    and white in the egg (and make this hereditary) and synthsize a
    membrane and shell around the egg once it was fertilized. (i.e.
    AM skipped over a *lot* of steps! :-) ).
    
    and as to names, the very first dragons hatched named themselves
    with -th names. Maybe it has something to do with their 'mental
    palate' i.e. they can only prounce names with '-th's" ????? :-)
    
    Bonnie
    

    one last question, what happened to the dolphins?

    I hope that probe from STIV TVH  doesnt come by Pern

	Well, I've just found DRAGONSDAWN in the bookshops, and the *&%^%@s
	have released it in the oversized �6.95 worth of paperback.

	Oh well, I'll just have to wait another 6ish months for the smaller
	sized cheaper paperback version.

	CJA

    
    Two questions:
    
    1) Does anyone know what happens to HNO3 when it's oxidized that 
    	makes it such a good substance for the flamethrowers?
    	("It'll be like hitting [the Thread] with *both* fire and water!"
    	  --Someone said in Dragonsdawn) Any chemists out there?
    
    2) Any ideas on how HNO3 came to be called "Agenothree"?
    	One would think agenothree would be a better name for AgNO3!
    
    Julian
     

    
    Another question:
    
    re .54--- what does "STIV TVH" stand for?
    
    Julian
    

    re .57:
    
    >> re .54--- what does "STIV TVH" stand for?
    
    Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
    ~    ~    ~~  ~   ~      ~
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

Re .56 (by CURIE::CHU)

>   2) Any ideas on how HNO3 came to be called "Agenothree"?
>   	One would think agenothree would be a better name for AgNO3!

I would think that 'agenothree' would be a corruption of 'aitch en oh
three'.  (That is, if it is pronounced with four syllables.  Just now
as I was writing this note, it occured to be that it could be pronounced
with five syllables, but I'll guess that McCaffrey meant it to be
pronounced with four.)

Dave C.

>    1) Does anyone know what happens to HNO3 when it's oxidized that 
>    	makes it such a good substance for the flamethrowers?
>    	("It'll be like hitting [the Thread] with *both* fire and water!"
>    	  --Someone said in Dragonsdawn) Any chemists out there?

	
Hi Julian,

	I'm not a chemist, but (* I Think *) HNO2 is Nitrous Acid. Hitting
it with an oxidizing agent would create HNO3 - Nitric Acid. Hitting that
with an oxidizing agent should create quite a bit of heat (as in REAL hot).

PS Are those `Dragon' books good? What  other books would you compare them
to ( as in similar styles of writing, literary quality,  etc. )?

Mike J

    It took me a little while to realize that "agenothree" was nitric
    acid, since I kept mentally pronouncing it "ah-GEE-no-three"
    rather than "age-en-oh-three".
    
    re:.60
    
    It's hard to come up with a stylistic analogy for the dragon books.
    They are reasonably enjoyable entertainment. They won't blow your
    socks off, but they are a "good read". Personally, I prefer the
    three "young adult" ones (the so-called "Harper Hall Trilogy")
    to the "adult ones".
    
    --- jerry

Re: back a few

    The explanation as to how the pronunciation for HNO3 came to be 
    "agenothree" can be found in Dragon's Dawn, the most recent of her
    books.  This book clears up quite a few questions.

    I would recommend all of Anne McCaffrey's books, not just the Dragon
    series.  She tells a good story.  They fall very much into the "Fantasy"
    bracket, there is not much real "Science" in them.

    CJA

Re: These Dragon books

	I'll have to give them a try.

Re: Agenothree

	It seems to me that if the author were trying to indicate a
phonetic representation of HNO3 ( a la artoodeetoo ) she would have written
aitchenothree. Is it possible she was actually referring to AgNO3, which is
Silver Nitrate?

Mike J

    A shift in pronunciation over the years, from the "ch" sound to the "j"
    sound, would be very natural.

                
                that's how i'd been thinking of it the whole time
                was  AgNO3,  but  now  that  a  few  people  have
                mentioned it, I can  see  the ag-en-o-3 for HNO3.
                Neat.  though it's been years since i've read the
                series ...
                
                

	re- agenothree discussion

	There was a scene in Dragonsdawn where one character thought
about the resident chemmist (or whoever he was) "Ah, isn't that funny.
When he says 'HNO3' it gets all blurred together, alnmost as if he
were saying 'agenothree'."  This isn't an exact quote, by any means,
but it just struck me because I'd always imagined the corrupt
pronunciation occuring over a few centuries, rather than a generation
as she seemed to imply.  

	Actually, this little explanation in Dragonsdawn was a bit
*too* much for me- I liked the way the colonists' nnames corresponded
to the Holds, but I felt that HNO3-agenothree was obvious enough.

	Sandy

If memory serves, nitric acid is itself a strong oxidizing agent (my
dictionary only says "corrosive"); in any case, I've never heard of
nitric itself burning, but the effect on something else could certainly
be described as burning.

Haven't read the books, so I don't know if this is what was meant.

    
    I agree with the preceding reply. Nitric acid (HNO3) is already as
    oxidized as it's going to get. The oxidizing agent in gunpowder is
    KN03, or potassium nitrate. KNO3 is a white crystalline substance,
    where as HNO3 is a yellow liquid that gives off noxious brown fumes.
    
    In the presence of a reducing agent, like a mixture of carbon and
    sulfur (gunpowder), you can get vigorous reactions (i.e., explosions). 
    If you can control the reagents, you can get stronger reactions.
    Gunpowder produces an adequate reaction for the purposes, and is stable
    at normal temperatures and not-too-rough treatment. Handy attributes
    for low-to-medium tech explosives.
    
    - Richard

    I liked the first novels dealing with Lessa and F'lar.  The ones
    dealing with the younger dragonriders degenerated into "cuteness"
    that made me crawl and have put me off her more recent work.
    
    Likewise "The Crystalsinger".  Restoree is one of her better ones.

    I agree with re. 69 
    
    The restoree is Ann best novel to date.
    
    For those interested she has written another Dragonseries book.
    I can't remember the name just at this moment but I know that the
    story is concerned with the arrival of the first colony on Pern
    - a good prologue to the dragon series....
    
    If I am not wrong this book will go into more detail about the red
    menace that has a hold on Pern..........
    
    Happy reading to all PERN fans

    re -.1
    
    Sorry to dissillusion you, but the book you describe is _Drangonsdawn_
    and has been out for quite a while.  She does have a new Dragonrider
    book out called _Renegades of Pern_ that deals with the events
    immediately leading up to the Fax rebellion prior to the first
    Dragonrider book.

	"Renegades of Pern" spans the time from Fax's conquest
	of the High Reaches area to a few years past the events
	of "The White Dragon".  It deal a great deal with the
	holdless of Pern; the poor, the criminals and the traders.
	In many places it takes a different point of view of the
	events of the time, mostly during "The White Dragon".

	Other Pern related books out are a softbound edition of 
	"The People of Pern" and "The Dragonlover's Guide to
	Pern".  "The People of Pern" are portraits of many of
	the major characters of the series by Robin Wood with
	text by Anne McCaffrey.  

	"The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern" is by Jody Lynn Nye, Anne 
	McCaffrey and Todd Johnson.  It contains a wide variety of 
	background material on Pern and its inhabitints.  Topics
	range from discussions of native flora and fauna, to thread
	fighting tactics to descriptions of all the major Holds,
	Crafthalls and Weyrs.  There is also a pronunciation guide
	to names on Pern.  The bibliography mentions a book or story 
	entitled "The Girl Who Heard Dragons" that I haven't been 
	able to find yet.

    I have Discovered Pern!
    
    A friend is loaning me all of his.  I have read so far:
    
    	DRAGONQUEST
    	DRAGONFLIGHT
    	THE WHITE DRAGON
    	DRAGONSDAWN
    	DRAGONSONG
    	DRAGONSINGER
    	DRAGONDRUMS
    
    I will probably be reading "Moreta" next.  The only hint my friend gave
    me was that it was a thicker book.  (He likes to surprise me that way.)
    
    I'll be sorry when they are all read!  I haven't gotten this addicted
    to a series since Eddings' BELGARIAD.
    
    K.C.

    Don't forget the latest ... Renegades of Pern.  It's only out in
    hardcover so far, but it's a real good read.
    
    ... Bob (another Pern fanatic)
    

    I just finished DRAGONSDAWN and thought it was excellent.  It filled in
    a lot of holes and was a fantastic story as well.  The thought of
    impressing a dragon is absolutely fascinating.
    	I couldn't quite figure out why there were Holds named after Bitra,
    Nabol, Crom and Lemos, after finding out what sleazes they all were. 
    Any ideas?
    
    -Tom
    

    
    Two of them died while performing an important function for the
    colony.  They were sleazes but the general public probably didn't
    know that.  The last of the three men probably located himself in
    the area named after him.  The one for Bitra really suprised me
    after what she did.
    
    

I finished yesterday _renegades_of_pern_ and I found it just ...*GREAT*. A good
book in many ways. But is this the last book about Pern � well the story look
quite like it, at the end of the book.

This is a short text about the story of _Renegades_of_Pern_


This story starts before Lessa was discovered by F'lar, and ends (at the end)
 ~Two turns after the discovery of the 'Landing' place.
The main characters of this book are two young-adults, Jayge and Piemur. We
learn about Jayge's life from trader to Holder and his wife, and also about
the more about the life of Piemur (Stupid and Farli included for the same price)
The story starts about the life of renegade people, and ends with the Knowledge
that Master 'Robinton' looked for ...
It goes from Trading,Travelling, Hunting (Thella), love and explorations.
We see most of the 'main' characters of they other books in the immediate
background, so you won't be lost. Guess you need to know the other books before
reading this one.

	Hope this helps to get an idea about _Renegades_of_Pern_

				Erik

PS - I'm not difficult so, if you have an Green or Blue Fire-Lizard egg for
     me, mail me �

Some questions, can you find :

The people of Pern, Robin Wood & Anne McCaffrey
The dragonlover's guide to pern, Jody Lynn Nye & Todd Johnson & Anne McC.

in the UK �

- is _the_girl_who_heard_dragons_ related to the story of Pern �


I just finished _Renegades_of_Pern_ , and I liked the series, I also
Like Edding's Belgariad (9 books & will buy today the Hardcover of the
last book of the Belgariad.) I liked the 'Lords of the Rings' and the story
of 'Thomas Covenant' (Can't remember yet the name of the author).

	Are there any BIG stories around written by other people, that
	will match this kind of lectures �
	('cause it's always hard to find a good author, you like)

				Regards,
					Erik

    -1
    PS
    'Thomas Covenant' by S. Donaldson
    and the Belgariad meens also the Malloreon from David Eddings.
    
    					Sorry for the mistakes.
    
    						Erik :-)

    I found RENEGADES not as exciting as prev. books, but rather like
    meeting with old friends.  A comfortable read.
    
    							Don

I just noticed that a co-worker has a paperback copy of The Rowan
on her disk.  I've not had a chance to ask here where she found it.
Probably Waldens or Daltons here in Seattle.


Paul

      Just saw the NEW Pern book in the store today. "All the Wyers of
    Pern" I believe it was called. Hardback only of course. I hope it
    makes the NYT best seller list so's I can get it at %35 off at Encore.


    					Joe

      P.S.

    Says that the computer they discovered at the end of the last book may
    have a way to eliminate thread for good.

	If you've ever been a fan at all of the Dragonriders, this is the
	book to buy. I won't say it's the last of the series, but it brings
	a lot of the groundwork together that has been created (since The
	White Dragon) to a satisfying, and rather touching, conclusion. I'm
	not capable of judging how well it would stand on its own - I've
	read (and re-read) all of the other books in the series, and you
	gain much insight from characters in previous stories. 

	This is a 'must buy' for fans of Pern.

	Chris

    I've read all the Dragonrider books, but I haven't yet read the other
    Pern books (the ones about the crafters and musicians).  Do they need
    to be read before "All the Weyrs of Pern"?  Were they any good?
    
    Thanks,
    -Tom

    Actually, DRAGONSINGER, DRAGONSONG & DRAGONDRUMS should be read before
    reading THE WHITE DRAGON (IMO).
    
    And yes...they were VERY good.
    
    K.C.

    Personally, I don't think the smaller HarperHall books were anywhere near 
    as good as the regular dragon books.  Maybe it's because I already knew
    what the story was all about.  There didn't seem to be as much
    character development done to the characters or as much detail used
    to describe the social situation.  The dragon books dealt with all
    of Pern; the HarperHall books dealt only with a limited set of
    characters.
    
    I didn't think the HarperHall books were necessary to enjoy
    the regular Dragon books.
    
    IMHO,
    B.

    Well, I've been looking in the local (Maynard/Hudson MA) libraries for
    a copy of "All the Weyrs of Pern" without any success.  Is there any
    chance that some kind soul out there might be willing to lend me a
    copy?
    
    Thanks,
    -Tom

    
    I saw a copy in the Littleton library last week.
    
    -Steve
    

    All The Weyrs of Pern....
    
    Spoiler Alert
    
    Rather disappointedthat this book did not have the pace of the rest of
    the series.  An odd twist with Robinton & AIVES, but rather terminal
    for the series.
    
    Can anyone say if this is the "last" of the series...?
    
    I would have thought that there would be enough loose ends to allow a
    short story on the wrap up....
    
    Bob

    I think All the Weyrs had enough loose ends for a couple of sequels, if
    McCaffrey decides to write them.
    
    
    Ginny

    	I have just put down 'All the Weyrs of PERN' having picked up
    'Dragons Dawn" 3 weeks ago and have read everything in between.
    
    
    		What a series !!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Exciting ......... Moving ............ Brilliant
    
    
    	Are there other series of hers as good ????? 
    
    	If so .... What are they ????????
    
    
    
    WOW...........    Bob
    

    
    I have always enjoyed the two book series on "CrystalSingers"
    
    Jamd 

There is a third Crystal Singer book out with Killshandra Rhee.  I enjoyed the
first one, but didn't think it had the same depth that the Pern books 
did.  I'm not sure if I never tried reading the second, or just couldn't 
get far into it.

PeterT

    What is the title of the third Cystal Singer book. I like this eseries.
                       Jeff Peters

    I saw one in the bookstore Saturday called Crystal Line, I think. In
    hardcover.
    

    Two other series by...
    
    ...One set in the Doona Universe with 2 books (Decision at Doona +
    recent).
    
    ...One set in the Ship That Sang Universe with 3 or four books.  The
    most recent being a collabaration with S.M. Stirling.
    
    IMO none of her other work measures up to those set on Pern.
    
    Herk

    I remember some one saying there is a new Ship that sang book about
    a city controled by a shell person but I can't find the note.
    does some one remember this note or the name of the book.
                          Jeff Peters
    

re: .97

>    I remember some one saying there is a new Ship that sang book about
>    a city controled by a shell person but I can't find the note.
>    does some one remember this note or the name of the book.

Wrong series.  The city controlled by a shell person was in the third 
Crystal Singer book.

Ray

    re 97 & 97
    
    I think the book your refering to is call t
    "The City that Fought" it came out in hardback about a month ago.

    
    WHAT third Crystal Singer book??!! What was the name??!!
    
    

And I believe that the City Who Fought is the city that is being referred to .

/Ted

    Re: .100
    
    Forget the name, but I got it in soft cover at least a few weeks ago. 
    So it's out there.

	The Shell person city story is indeed "The City that Fought".

	The third Crystal Singer book came out is hard back a few months 
ago and is "Crystal Line".

Tracey