T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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560.1 | Good for a laugh, though! | SNDBOX::SMITH | William P.N. (WOOKIE::) Smith | Fri Sep 18 1987 15:45 | 8 |
| Well, I could tell he was in trouble when he equated remote sensing
with spy sats. "Martha, somebuddy orter _do_ something about them
Landsat and SPOT thingies, or our National Security is in big trubble!"
Then there are the top secret operating systems manuals. So that's
why we lock up the lab every night!
Willie
|
560.2 | Great timing to be sure. | FROST::HARRIMAN | I've heard this song before | Fri Sep 18 1987 16:59 | 7 |
|
Hmph! That's why we got the mandatory SECURESHR patch last may!
Still no illumination on what kind of horse it was, tho? I must
say the timing is about as wicked as can be with DECworld still
going on and DEC in the world's limelight.
/pjh
|
560.3 | But wait, there's more | MAY20::MINOW | Je suis Marxist, tendance Groucho | Fri Sep 18 1987 17:01 | 3 |
| See VAXWRK::VMSNOTES, note 1125 for some background.
Martin.
|
560.4 | | SNDBOX::SMITH | William P.N. (WOOKIE::) Smith | Fri Sep 18 1987 23:19 | 5 |
| You got the patch last may???? I just got a note about it last
week.... I thought that was even better timing.
Willie
|
560.5 | | RIKKA::PALO | Fred Garvin Band lives... | Sun Sep 20 1987 06:20 | 21 |
| This whole situation demonstrates how sensitive sites *need* to be
concerned with the security of their systems. This means access to
operations rooms where consoles be, protections on terminals, (even
syspasswords), enforcing secondary passwords on accounts, breakin
logging, alarms on sensitive files, *active monitoring* of images being
executed via Accounting. These and more are crucial in this type of
environment --- that's why VAX/VMS went through the pains to get TCB
certifications -- unfortunately, a lot of sites don't want that
secure of a site (don't want the expense of maintaining it nor the cpu
cycles expended). Perhaps it's just a matter of education?
Analogy - think of FORD motor company getting (successfully?) sued
because a customer was hurt in an accident without his seatbelt
fastened. He could argue well, I know I could have put it
on, but FORD should make them automatic! Imagine the others who would
scream if they *were* automatic.
Frustrating being a vendor in a crazed-consumer (consumer-crazed?)
market!
\rikki
|
560.6 | Now I wonder if it was authentic... | FROST::HARRIMAN | I've heard this song before | Mon Sep 21 1987 09:17 | 10 |
|
re: .4
Yeah, it was sometime back there. Came in over the network with
explicit instructions that we HAD to install it and it involved
security blah blah blah etc. But they wouldn't say WHY. So we put
it in (it could have been the Trojan horse itself for all we knew)
and there we be. Haven't heard a thing since then, until now.
/pjh
|
560.7 | It wasn't by accident !! | RTOIC1::CSCHMIDT | Scio, Me Nil Scire | Fri Oct 02 1987 11:09 | 22 |
| Re: base note
This thing has caused quite some publicity over here in Germany.
As far as I know it was considered normal risk with all the people
that deal with computer security in other countries.
In the October 2nd issue of "Computerwoche" , there's an article
clarifying the status of the "hackers". Two of the six people that
claim to have accidentally found a security hole in VMS, were actually
employees of public research institutions, whose job is (was ??)
system maintenance.
So they were insiders to VMS and had all the manuals available !!
The bug apparently is that unpriviledged users, trying to open
SYSUAF.dat in VMS4.4 and 4.5 can still access that file, although
they got an error message before. So anybody that hasn't installed
that patch yet, had better installed it immediately !!
The "hackers" used their special knowledge to get access to the SPAN
network and plant their Trojan Horses. In addition they got access
to some information by trying passwords like "SECRET","Challenger"
and the like.
/christoph
|
560.8 | My 2 cents | USRCV1::GREENE | Who says money can't buy it!? | Fri Oct 02 1987 16:15 | 11 |
| RE: base note
My *lack* of respect for journalists just went up another notch.
It makes me wonder, "If they screw up facts about computers this
bad, why should I believe the details about anything else they report?"
Who knows maybe the alien, two-headed, baby is possessed by Elvis'
spirit? ;-}
Dave
|
560.9 | Ever play "telephone" as a child? | ERIS::CALLAS | Strange days, indeed. | Mon Oct 05 1987 12:58 | 6 |
| Good question. Why *do* you believe anything they say? Remember,
reporters are only human. They only write down what other people tell
them, and if those people weren't terribly articulate, stuff gets
garbled.
Jon
|
560.10 | The Art of Hacking in Old Germany | NBOIS::BLUNK | Bruce P. Blunk | Mon Oct 26 1987 05:50 | 44 |
| This is a very complex subject.....!
German telivision did a special report concerning this Hacking problem
in a news show called "Panorama"! The report, of course, mentioned
DEC but was not too negative in the presentation. The facts were
more accurately presented than those in the article in the U.S.
paper. Various articles have appeared in Newspapers as well as
Computer Publications.
I attended a customer course in the DEC Training Center in Munich
a few days after the public disclosure of the hacking incident.
The course was, appropriately: " VAX/VMS Security Management". I
thought the customers would be extremely upset, but they weren't.
Most of them were experienced DP people and most believed that there
is always a way to get into a system somehow (there is no perfect
security). They were impressed that DEC Europe (Germany) did NOT
try to cover up the whole situation and was doing everthing possible
to protect customer and Digital systems.
The U.S. newspaper article did state that "as with most computer
hacking crimes, the blame lies not with the computer but with lax
security by users". I have found this to often be very true. Good
security begins at home! We can have the most secure computer centers
in the world but if one node in the net is wide open then we have
problems! I have seen University uVAX's connected to various networks
where many users had SET priv and the computer room wide open (if
there even is a computer room), with no professional system management
to insure the installation of important patches etc etc.
Perhaps the disclosure of the Hackers in Germany will increase the
awareness of the importance of Computer Security in all aspects
of Data Processing. The problem becomes more complex as networks
grow. How can we determine the security level of every computer
in the network? This Hacking incident was relatively harmless but
what would happen if someone got into a STAR Wars system.....?
Do we really have everything under control?
As Murphy says in his fourth corollary:
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are
so ingenious".
Happy Hacking:
Bruce Blunk
in Old Germany
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