Conference noted::equitation

    
    This is a tough one.  I am really sorry to hear you had such an 
    experience.
    
    I have encountered some really nasty dogs out riding and it IS hard 
    to decide what to do.  
    
    My horse is very good around dogs (even when they are attacking).  We
    usually turn and face them.  And if they keep coming we jump forward 
    at them, which often backs them off.  (EC will try to stomp them with
    her front feet...) Even if it doesn't, we keep facing them so EC can 
    see what is going on.
 
    In a case like the one described, I would try to stay on the horse
    and get to the owners as quickly as possible so they would have a 
    chance to grab the dog.  If you dismount and the dog attacks you, 
    you might have a hard time controlling your horse.  You would have
    to decide if your horse was better off loose or with you riding it.
    
    If I knew in advance there would be trouble I would carry a squirt
    bottle with ammonia and/or a gun.  (Out here you would be within your
    rights to shoot a dog that was attacking your horse as long as you 
    were not on the dog's property.) 
    
    Mary Jo 
    

    When I saw your header...I thought, Oh yeah, we've all had dogs chase
    us and there's nothing my horses like to do is do an about face and
    start chasing the dog!!!  But then I read your note and you and your
    horse are very lucky.  If it had to happen, better a bite on the butt
    than torn leg tendons or worse.  
    
    I can't imagine pepper gas would help, since you are on the horse, and
    would have to dismount quickly.  
    
    I'm also interested in hearing how people would handle this situation.
    
    Caryl                           

    I have always ridden my horse straight at any dog that appeared to be
    getting too agressive. I also yell at the dog. Fortunately my horse is
    not afraid of dogs so, up until now, the dogs concerned very quickly
    realize their size disadavntage relative to the animal about to stomp
    on them and back off. This approach has worked with several German
    Shepherds.

    FYI...
    
    Quick reply to the note that read - out here you would have a right to
    shoot.  In Massachusetts, you have a right to kill a dog (or ?) that is
    killing/attacking your livestock.
    
    I know, we've had to do it.
    
    Caryl  

    
    John, what a scarrrrrrry thing!  I'm gald Lady and you are okay.  I
    have dogs come at me (barking-n-stuff) and I to turn and face them and
    chase them w/my horse.  My horse loves to stomp on them (even my own 2)
    :-)
    
    but, I don't know what I would of done if I were you that day.
    
    Louisa

Here are some tips on dealing with loose dogs.  

- Often facing the dog and saying in a forceful voice "NO!" "GO HOME"
will make the dog keep its distance and you can continue riding out
of its territory. Do not try to trot or gallop away. This will active any
prey drive the dog has and attract it nearer.

- However, a dog in full charge may not be deterred by the above. We have
had a huge success with water pistols. I'd probably put vinegar in rather than
ammonia though. So far plain water has worked.

- If a dog does attack, dismount as quickly as possible and get out of
the way. You are more likely to get injuried the horse protecting itself
than be able to do anything useful at this point.

- Guns are not very practical in these situations since you'd have to
be an excellent shot to hit a fast moving dog. If the dog gets close,
you risk hitting you, your horse or any riding companions.

Vicky

I can't say I've had any where near as serious a problem
with dogs as you have, and there does not seem to be any
sure-fire way to handle this problem. Forgive me
for being light hearted but I saw this on a 
TV show once, I think it was the Rockford Files ;) 

Just carry some beef jerky or hot dogs with you, and give the
doggy a treat!!

Rob

    I dunno. I've never had a dog come at me in full charge. Charging? Yes,
    but they were tentative and facing the horse at the dog and shouting
    deterred them. I have had some that persisted but they were slinking
    around after the first "counterattack" rather than charging full bore.
    
    I don't know about a pistol though. If you're trained and a
    "Crack-shot"(me? I'm more like a "crackpot" ;-), you could shoot(and
    shoot to kill). In most states, it is perfectly legal to shoot a dog
    that is in the act of attacking you, your family or your livestock. 
    However, most people can't hit diddly-squat with a pistol even if 
    they're good shots with a rifle. Trust me, I know. I'm an expert marksman 
    with a rifle but I have trouble hitting mansized targets at 25 yards 
    with a pistol. Granted I only had 2-3 days training w/ the pistol but 
    that's more than most folks get. I can't imagine hitting a 
    charging dog-sized target from an active horse! 
    
    Although Vicky's idea of a water gun sounds good, I can't help but
    wonder how one's aim would be any better than with firearms or how one 
    could hit a charging dog...At least if you do hit yourself or your horse, 
    you won't get hurt...Maybe one of those pump-up rifles that you can 
    follow the stream and adjust your aim? 
    
    Dunno. No solid ideas here...Glad you're alright though and that Lady
    is healing up. I think I'd have killed the damn dog in anger afterwards
    even if I couldn't get him before he did any damamge...That's one
    reason I don't carry a gun. I have a wicked bad temper.
    
    John

    
    	John - you? Bad temper? I don't believe it. :)
    
    	I've had a dog charge out of a yard and do a sliding stop 
    under my horse's belly, horse is rearing and cars are speeding
    up to get past the commotion while to owner is standing 50 yds
    away on the porch whispering "no Buffy, bad dog" and I am screaming
    "come get your f-ing dog!". *sigh* Unfortunately the outcome often
    depends on the owner's inclination to intervene. 
    
    	I would never turn and run - it incites the dogs and can result
    in an out of control horse. 
    
    	The water gun sounds like the best idea but how many of us think
    to pack a water gun? I have my pistol permit but I would not try to
    shoot a dog while mounted. Sounds like a great idea but it just 
    wouldn't work. :) 
    
    	Maybe the best answer is prevention - visit or know the area first
    so you can be aware of loose dogs ahead of time. Speak to the owners
    about tying them up or avoid that route. Train your horse to be
    aggressive with dogs. 
    
    Sherry 

    >John - you? Bad temper? I don't believe it. :)
    
    Believe it. I'm polite etc until I snap. Then, I go ballistic. Problem 
    is most people can't tell when I'm getting worked up *until* I snap so
    they are quite surprised when flames start coming out of my ears! ;-)
    
    John

Have a stream of water even without hitting the dog seems to make a
big difference. We use one of those big water pistols that you pump up.
They claim the water will go over 100+.  I think 30-50 feet is more 
realistic but the stream of water has a good amount of pressure behind it.

We found that once the dogs realized we had the gun, they kept their distance.

Vicky

    I've also had good luck using words most dogs know like "BAD DOG",
    "NO" and "GO HOME", even "GO LAY DOWN".  Their perky attack usually
    stops dead when they hear you talking their language.  I've only had 
    one dog actually bite onto the horse, I was lucky he let go when the
    owner yelled though, I was whipping him with my crop. 
    
    I suspect this dog has had experience running deer, I'm sure he
    wouldn't have learned it so well elsewhere.  I've heard of how 
    savage they are then from people who have seen some deer get attacked. 
    
    Sharon
    

    Hi John,
    
    Guess this is a more interesting topic than the one I added
    when I got chased by loose horses! :-)
    
    Glad you and Lady are ok though.
    
    I also agree to turn and face the horse to the dog. Most horses
    will gladly chase the dog if asked to do so. I've had to bear
    down on dogs before and it just makes me mad that they were 
    loose to begin with!
    
    The other thing I do when riding with a buddy is a tag team,
    where if one of us is in trouble with a dog, the other goes
    after the dog (Denise and I do this often). The dog is always
    overhwelmed by two horses chasing him and will run away.
    
    See ya,
    Tina
    

  I have always had good luck using the turn and charge technique. It does have
to be a good, aggresive charge, though.
  Using a firearm from horse back is not an an impossible task, but it does take
practice and "de-senstizing" your horse first is a must. I routinely carry a 44
MAG loaded with "snake-shot". These are basically little shot-gun shells for
your revolver. They don't richocchet and don't travel nearly as far as a lead
bullet. I have never had to shoot a dog, but have had to shoot a rattle snake
while riding my mare.
  Here's a thought: get yourself a big, mean dog and let him ride with you. He
can act like a Patriot missle on the offending Scud, er..., I mean dog!!!

My nightmare fantasy!

I once had a shepard sidle up to my horse and then start growling and 
acting menacing, but I had a long equitation whip and brought it down hard
on the dog twice and it took off.  However, it didn't come out charging
like that dog did.  The dog I faced wasn't that interested - could if he
would and didn't meet oppostion but was going to fight.

When I lived in VT I used to ride on a dirt road that was lovely.  The ride
was always spoiled by this shepard that was tied with a rope.  There is
*no doubt* this dog would have savaged anything.  As soon as I would
get near the house, this dog would *hurl* himself at the end of the rope,
lips totally curled back and it turned into some sort of killing machine.
My horse, who was unafraid of everything, started getting really paranoid
about this road and so did I.  I used to be scared to death the rope would
snap someday, so eventually I stopped using that road that much which was
really inconvenient because it made a perfect loop.  The people in that
house could have cared less if that dog bothered anyone.  I knew that no
whip would stop this dog and I was freaked by it.

Never run from the dog, because they will chase and then the horse's flight
mechanism will really kick in and they may get into the road or something.

Do you live in a town with leash laws - I would report the attack to the police
and see if you can get this dog tied up.  

Tina

    John,
    
    While there is no leash law in Weare, there is a 'restraint law', fwiw.
    
    I carry a small spray bottle of pepper spray hooked to the dee rings of
    my saddle.  Snaps off easily and quickly, and it sprays far enough in
    a direct stream that you don't need to dismount to use it effectively.
    And it certainly is effective.  It's inexpensive, legal in NH, and
    can be purchased at most hardware stores ( I got mine at Goffstown
    Hardware).  
    
    I've only used it twice now, once on a dalmation that is always loose 
    and very aggressive. The owners are always out with it, but it totally 
    ignores them (and they didn't try particularly hard to stop it anyway).  
    I had turned the horse to face him and was moving towards him as works 
    99% of the time, but he came at her front legs snarling and obviously not 
    intimidated.  I sprayed, he went off yelping, the owners came running - 
    I explained what it was, that he'd be fine shortly, and that I always carry
    it with me and never hesitate to use it.  They were actually quite
    reasonable about it and they've been far better about restraining him 
    when I go by lately. :-)
    
    The other time was a totally loose and strange dog in the woods, not
    near enough to a house to know who it belonged to.  Snuck up behind
    us real quick and aggressive.  Took off after I blasted him, and 
    I've never seen him again.