Conference noted::equitation

    Sounds to me like a cold, but I wouldn't worry too much until
    the vet see's her and makes a determination.  You've already 
    done everything you can do.  If she's still her normal self,
    that's a good sign.
    
    g.

    
    Not to alarm you, but my older horse that that same thing you
    discribed.   He ended up having a Cyst between his back teeth and his
    brain.  It was hard to tell w/out an xray.  He was 33yrs old, and he is
    a scrambler in a trailer - so we opted not to drag him over to Tufts
    for the xray.  We treated it w/ antibiotics(sp), it helped, but he had
    to be put down. 
    
    He never went off his feed, he just looked sad and you could tell the
    thick nose discharge was irritating to him.  And that smell!  the smell
    was like something had died inside his head  PHEW!
    
    Good Luck
    
    Louisa

    Hi -
    
    I don't get this at all.  The barn and vet just called me and
    said she has strangles.  This horse has not seen another horse
    in 8 years - she has lived with two rabbits.  The vet said
    it could be airborne (which I have never heard of before).  I
    do not know if he did a culture or not.  I'm in shock here;
    that is the last thing I thought it would be.  Last night there
    was no swelling at all around her jowls, but the vet said
    that there was a swelling coming up on her left side (discharge
    from right nostril).  The horse has not coughed at all.  She
    eats hay, treats fine.  The vet feels she was just recently
    exposed to it.  
    
    Maybe I should get a second opinion?  I feel awful about this
    because the people at the barn are incredible, and I will offer
    to pay the bills/do the work in case any of the other horses come 
    down with it.  Thank God that the stable owner noticed the 
    discharge before we unloaded the horse so we were very careful 
    to keep her away from any of the other horses, didn't touch anything 
    ourselves, and she has been kept in her stall since.  I will do all her
    feeding and care to reduce the risk of its travel from the
    owners to another horse, disinfect or throw out anything
    she has come in contact with.  Does anyone have any other suggestions
    for ways to ensure the other horses don't catch it?  Would removing
    her from this barn now reduce the risk of infection to
    the others or has the damage been done?  I know I should have 
    asked the vet all these things but I was totally floored by his
    diagnosis and am just now trying to get it all together so I
    can call him back.
    
    I still don't believe it, though.  She was exposed to Strangles
    at a show barn in 1980 and never came down with it, we weren't
    worried about it at all because she was on the track for 4 years
    and most TB's get it then, so I can't figure out for the life
    of me why she would come down with it now?  
    
    Any ideas would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks,
    beth
    

    
    Note 402 has alot of information on Strangles.
    
    

    From what I know, Strangles is highly contagious (almost like
    conjunctivitis in humans).  Can be passed from one horse to 
    another very easily.  You need to keep your friend isolated
    and not go near any of the other horses yourself as it can
    be passed through you just by petting another horse.  
    Other than that, I'd talk to the vet, and see what the next
    steps are and what action to take to prevent it spreading
    throughout the barn.
    
    g

    Beth,
    
    If you want a second opinion, by all means get one. But, don't wait to
    start treatment for strangles. At least that way, you're fighting the
    infection(what ever) it is before it gets any worse. If I remember
    right, strangles is a bacterial disease and responds well to
    antibiotics. Most bacterial infections do so you won't be doing wrong,
    even if it's not strangles.
    
    Good luck
    John

    Thanks everyone for the input.
    
    re -.1 - That is exactly what I was worried about and good to
    know.  I'm going to request a culture be done so we know
    exactly what we are dealing with here.
    
    I just confirmed with the ex that the horse hasn't been
    anywhere near any other horses nor has anyone been around
    Chambe that has been around horses at all.  The nearest
    horse to her is over a mile down the road, so I'm interested
    in finding out what the specific "airborne travel distance"
    of this disease is.  
    
    This is the kind of thing that could only happen to me.
    Thanks very much to everyone!
    beth
    

    My horse came down with strangles about 6 years ago (before I got her
    but I knew her well then), she hadn't been exposed to strangles at all
    and was the only horsein the area to suffer with it.  She was kept at a
    riding school admitably but none of the others had it at all.
    
    She was isolated in a seperate field a couple of miles away from the
    stables with no other horses nearby.
    
    One thing I will say - she's now got large bumps under her jowls which
    will always be there.
    
    Good luck and keep us posted.
    
    Liz

    I got a horse who turn up with strangles a few days after shipping.
    It was interesting to hear the previous reply on the neck. I was 
    disappointed that his beautiful fine throatlatch has never returned after 
    the strangles. It was one of his most attractive qualities and since he 
    now has a thick one and I was wondering if I'd just imagined it.
    
    As far as antibiotics go, there are some very strong articles against
    it.  There are differing opinions here from what I've read.  Some
    articles say it just prolongs it and makes the pussules enlarged. My
    new horse was REALLY sick, he had pnewmonia also so antibiotics were
    the only choice.  My mare in the next stall got it, even though I
    drenched the walls floors and everything I touched with disinfectant.
    But hers was just a bit of a runny nose, she was over it in no time. 
    No antibiotics were given, thank god.  If I had to give her the daily
    shots in the butt I probably wouldn't be here to tell the story, :-)
    
    Sharon

    Hi,
    
    Thanks to everyone for their input!  I feel alot better
    now.
    
    The vet came out this morning and scoped her.  He said
    her left lymphnode had gone down (although yesterday
    he felt that it was "coming up" and I never felt
    anything) and her discharge was a lot less.  He said
    that her sinus cavities were clear, saw no evidence
    of pus and that she was a little red and irritated.
    Her temperature is still normal.  She's her obnoxious
    little self; eating fine.  He feels hopeful that
    it's a case of "the Strangles that wasn't".  We
    find out when the results come back Monday.  
    
    It's going to be a long weekend for us!
    
    Thanks again,
    beth
    
    P.S.  Too bad I forgot my old trick of bringing the clippers
    up when she's being tranquilized :9
    

    So what were the results?

Hi,

This is torture!  We still haven't received the results of the
culture taken Friday...I spoke with the vet this morning
and he said we should have them back today.   Her discharge
is still the same - it doesn't seem to be responding to the
antibiotics or expectorant at all.  The vet said this morning
that he is not surprised at all.  I'm worried because this is
her sixth day on them and my experience with antibiotics is
that they usually take care of things within a few days.  The
vet said that the drugs she's on won't hurt her in the
event that it doesn't turn out to be S. Equi, but I'm worried
about what could really be wrong with her that we are not
treating.

Otherwise, she is still completely fine (other than being a lunatic
from being in solitary!).  Still exhibiting no other symptoms.  
I can't stand this much longer!

Thanks again to everyone.
beth
  

    Well, if it's a viral infection, antibiotics won't do her
    the least bit of good - it has to just run it's natural course.
    She doesn't sound too bad off, I wouldn't worry too much if
    your vet isn't worrying.  I may have missed in a previous note,
    did her check her teeth thoroughly? A loose tooth can sometimes
    allow a 'channel' to open up into her sinus cavity and cause
    problems - in which the usual solution is to pull the tooth (which
    is not as horrifying as it may sound).  Keep us posted!
    

    re: -.1
    
    Thanks, she really isn't too bad off; her only symptom is
    a runny nose.  We are very concerned about the communicability
    factor!  My initial reaction was also a tooth problem but
    he felt that there would be swelling around the area and in
    his examination it didn't appear to him to be the case.  I
    also asked him about a blocked duct but he didn't feel that
    was the case either.  I don't even know why he came up with
    a diagnosis of strangles with none of the other symptoms!
    I still haven't heard from him with the results of the
    culture yet, so I'll try his office again now.  
    
    beth
    
    P.S. I miss Dr. Gill :(
    

    Still no word from the vet.
    Still in isolation.
    Still not responding to the Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim
    and expectorant.
    Still has the discharge.
    Still going crazy....
    
    beth
    
    

    This is really amazing me.
    
    I just actually talked to the vet and he said that the
    lab called him and told him that they didn't get
    "good growth" on the culture he took from her last
    Friday.  They said they are "replanting" it and
    should have the results tonight or tomorrow morning.
    Tommorow is her last day on the antibiotics so I
    hope we get the results back by then.
    
    I've been having mixed feelings about her response to
    them, though.  I've been feeling more hopeful that
    it isn't S. Equi because she hasn't been responding,
    but also I am wondering if it's something worse.  The
    vet said that it is common for a horse with Strangles
    to not respond for *weeks*!  Has anyone had a horse
    on antibiotics for more than 7 days?  Won't the
    culture be bad now and not give proper results (like
    O.J.'s blood in the van :)
    
    Is it me or am I getting the runaround?  I can't stand
    this much longer.  She's still in isolation and I am
    thinking we are dealing with something other than Strangles
    and not treating it properly.
    
    I really appreciate everyone's responses to this.  
    
    beth
    

    I've had a couple of horses with strangles and it can go on and on. 
    They need supportive nursing care with the antibiotics (if appropriate)
    and that's it.
    
    I know you are very anxious right now, but please try to relax.  Think
    of your horse as having a viral flu right now.  If you've had that,
    then you know it can take weeks to get to feeling better - well, your
    horse is in the same situation.
    
    Tina

    I'm no expert on horse viruses, but I'd be really frustrated
    with the vet.  

    Re: .17 Tina
    You are right.  I'm trying to relax and just wait.  It's hard
    though because I really question the diagnosis.  The people
    at the barn (who have been terrific through all this) are
    justifiably (sp?) concerned that they have a horribly
    contagious disease invading their barn.  My poor baby is
    being isolated and confined. I am being made promises that
    aren't being kept.  I'm not sure I trust the results of
    the culture when I get them.  It just goes on and on like
    you said.  I guess it all comes down to the fact that I
    can't do anything but wait for the results.  Thanks!
    
    re .18
    
    Frustrated isn't exactly the word!  I have heard incredible
    things about the Vet that owns the practice; this man has
    been with him for about 3 years and I don't know much about
    him.  Mostly it's his attitude that is really bothering me,
    he gives the impression that he could really care less.
    I'll definately be looking for another vet after this is
    over.
    
    Thanks!
    beth
    

    I brought a filly home from the yearling sale at the Meadowlands (NJ)
    last September, and quarrentined her with 3 other youngsters for a 
    couple of weeks as to not pass anything on to the horses that were racing.
    All seemed well and we moved the young ones in with the older horses.
    About 2 months later, my filly and one other came down with a terrible 
    sickness. She was acting dumpy, and had terrible stuff coming out of 
    her nose.  I put her on 2 rounds of tribrissin which didn't cure it 
    and ended up giving 5 days of approx. 50 cc of IV antibiotics daily.  
    After about 3 days, her nose ran like a faucet and she started clearing
    up.  The other major difference was the way she acted, she was like a
    different horse, bucking and kicking in the paddock and running around
    like a crazy woman.  
    
    If your horse is still eating and acting okay, I wouldn't worry too
    much.  Your other option is to call another vet in for a second opinion
    if it makes you feel better.  A lot of times these things just have to
    run their course, which is frustrating I know!!
         

    I agree - even if he isn't sure yet, he should at least
    take a different attitude and show alittle more concern.
    Vet shopping's definitely in order..check around, there
    are some good ones out there.  Meanwhile, hang in there
    and wait for the second set of results, and spend alot
    of time with your horse.

    Since both mine had it, and one barely had the yellow gook for a few
    days and the other had it for weeks, it largely depends on the animal.
    
    I did a lot of research when they had it.  The younger they are, the
    harder they are hit. If they've had it before, it's usually mild.
    She could have gotten it from a trailer or someone petting her or used
    equipment.  Another horse carrying it may never show symptoms.  Thirdly, 
    the antibiotics are in dispute, some say it makes it prolonged and 
    enlarges the pussules....it's kind of like the common cold, it just
    has to run it's course.  I wouldn't worry, my vet didn't take a culture
    because she said it takes a while, and the treatment would be the same
    anyway...but I wasn't in a barn with a lot of other horses like you.
    I can see why you feel uncomfortable.
    
    Sharon

Thanks for more good advice.  Nothing more we can do for her
but wait and see what happens.  Hopefully we can get a negative
result today so she doesn't have to spend the weekend in lock-up.
She's going nuts!  It's a toss up as to whether she has more
snots or snorts :)

Re .20
What a terrible thing to go through for you both...
Was there ever a diagnosis made on what your filly's illness was? 
    
Re .21
Good observation on the uncertainty and spending time with
her (instead of sticking to the phone waiting for THE call).

Re .22 Sharon
Where you ever able to pinpoint the source of the strangles?
That's making me crazy too...if the results come
back positive (or I should probably say...if they come
back at all!) the only thing I can think of is an animal
transmitted it to her from an infected horse (she loves
playing with cats).  The ex is a hermit and doesn't allow
people on his property.  

One of the lessons I learned from this whole thing is that 
just because something is unlikely to happen doesn't mean 
it won't.  I should have had her vaccinated for Strangles 
even though she had no contact with other horses.  
You never know and this whole thing is a great example of that.  
I'd rather chance a bad reaction than have to go through this...

beth
P.S. I *never* want to smell Creolin again!

    Beth,
    
    Just a thought on your concerns about how she contact this thing -
    was she transported to her new home in a trailer?  And was the
    same trailer used to transport any other horses recently? Unlikely
    as it may sound, the Stranges virus is a tough bugger and a trailer
    is not an uncommon source of transmission for it.
    
    

    re -.1
    
    Thanks for the though.  The people that own the barn where 
    she lives now trucked her there.  I haven't really thought much 
    about her contacting it from the trailer because the ex said 
    that she started a *clear* discharge the Monday prior to her 
    Wednesday pickup.  I thought he was just giving me a hard time 
    so didn't worry too much about it and she looked okay to me.  
    The trucker/owner didn't notice anything either until we went to 
    unload her at her new home and she was frothy with the stuff.  
    We called the vet right then.  
    
    I read an interesting article somewhere recently (Equus?) 
    that said that the stress of the trailering alone can cause 
    that reaction due to the headset the horse needs
    to adopt for a balanced ride combined with the loss of vitamin C.
    The stress of getting on that trailer and leaving her home
    of 8 years must have been tremendous :(, so I'm thinking that
    this thing could possible be a post-stress reaction??
    
    I will ask if they had trailered any other horses recently.
    Thanks for bringing that point up.  I better make sure he
    doesn't use that trailer again until I disinfect it.
    (oh no...more Creolin!).
    
    beth 
             

    Hi -
    
    The results of her culture came back (finally!) and did
    not show the presence of S. Equi.  
    
    Now they think it's an abscessed tooth or tumor.
    The "good" Vet will be coming out this week to xray her
    head.
    
    Thanks,
    beth
    
     

    Keep us updated.  Sounds like you switched vets.  
    Hope this one can locate the problem and make her better.
    
    g.

    
    I had a feeling it was a tooth or a tumor.  Your symptions are the
    exact same ones that my older horse had - down to a T!

    Just wanted to thank everyone again for the advice and let everyone
    know that she's doing great.  The discharge is gone.  We'll probably
    never know what caused it.  Our new Vet did some blood work on her
    and the results were that we have one healthy horse.  
    
    If anyone is looking for a new Vet in the NH area, *please*
    contact me first.  I wouldn't want anyone to go through
    what we went through with the first Vets we used.  We haven't
    totally decided what we are going to do about it yet, but
    we never did get the results of the culture back and the
    Stable owners were told something different about the results
    than we were.  Our new Vet has even tried to contact their
    office for the test results and was given the brush off.
    I can understand a misdiagnosis, but their total
    lack of compassion was inexcusable.  Has anyone had any
    previous experiences like this with Vets before?  Apparently,
    these people saw me coming...wonder how many other people
    they are doing this to :(
    
    Thanks,
    beth