Conference noted::equitation

    Hi Jan,
    
    Pat MacDonald (who works with me) and her husband Dave had an interesting
    experience with an animal communicator which is really amazing. I've asked
    Pat to give me some facts on it to describe here for everyone's
    benefit; I am passing on her comments.
    
    Basically, this lady came to her barn where they board and for $ 30 she 
    "talked" to their quarter horse, Hank. She gave them some very accurate
    information about the horse and its likes, dislikes, prior experiences,
    sore spots, bit preferences, etc.  Pat and Dave were skeptical because
    they felt that much of the information may have been available from the
    barn manager, other boarders, etc.... SOooo they paid another $ 30 to
    have her "talk" to their dog, who no one at the barn knew ANYTHING about.
    
    She told them that Rascal really liked his red sweater.
    
    She told that Rascal hates to go out in the cold and the wet.
    
    She told them that Rascal liked carrots and apples to eat.
    
    She told them that Rascal wanted to thank them for changing his dog
    food because the old food hurt his stomach.
    
    She told them that Rascal was frightened by a wind-up toy that
    someone was playing with.
    
    She told them that Rascal had a great attachment to an older person in
    their family.
    
    She told them that Rascal was afraid of vacuum cleaners.
    
    The amazing thing is that EVERYTHING she said was correct and NOTHING
    was incorrect... EXCEPT Pat and Dave knew nothing about any wind-up toy.
    Pat later asked her son who told her that Rascal was scared to death by
    a wind-up toy that her grandson was playing with a couple of weeks
    before.......
    
    Enter the Animal Twilight Zone!
    
    Regards,
    
    John Wood

    Wow, How tempting to delve into such hocus pocus!  I have to ask...
    who was this animal communicator? (Just in case I'm at my wits end
    with one of my animals ;-)

How long did the "communicator" have to spend with the animals to get this
information? Did she "ask" them anything - or did they just volunteer the
information.

Also - did she give any messages to the animals - from the owners? 

    I began reading the article this morning while waiting for the
    farrier...from what I gathered, the communicator actually asks
    the animal questions and receives answers.  
    
    From what I've read so far, the author claims there is no reason
    to give messages from owner to animal, as the animals have no
    inhibitions about their telepathic natures and thus have always
    willingly received messages from people, the humans just have not
    realized they'd been sending any.  She claims that most humans
    can do this communication thing with a little practice. I didn't
    get through the whole instruction part, but she has the reader
    begin by going out for a quiet hack, quieting the 'babble' in your
    mind, and saying 'hello' to your horse and waiting for a response.
    She claims the responses come in many different forms, varying from
    horse to horse.  
    
    As far as how long she spends with each individual animal, I didn't
    get that from the article.  Maybe she gets into it further on than
    I got.  I also haven't gotten to the part about doing this over
    the phone, either.  Personally, I ain't going out and paying her
    (or anyone else) good money to tell me that my mare prefers trail
    riding to ring work. I can figure that stuff out for myself. :-)
      

    re .3 - Pat will ask the barn manager for the name of the communicator
    they used.
    
    re .4 - how long and how it worked.
    
    From Pat MacDonald
    GRANPA::PMACDONALD
    dtn 341-6306
    .quote
    She communicated for about 20 minutes.  She asked questions for the
    owners and communicated the answers back to the owners.  Most of the
    questions my husband and I asked were sort of trick questions so that
    the person communicating with the animal didn't know what or who you
    were asking about.  For example, we asked how our dog felt about Tyler.
    The answer was our dog felt Tyler was a bit overpowering and very pushy
    but since he was a guest in our house Rascal (our dog) would tolerate
    the visit as long as he didn't stay too long.  What the psychic didn't
    know was that Tyler was our son's dog (a large chow puppy) and very
    overpowering.  One other thing which was pretty good proof to us that
    maybe she could communicate with animals was when she told us that our
    dog absolutely loved his red sweater!  We (my husband and I) wete the
    only ones who knew about this sweater that we bought for him last
    winter!  You be the judge!!
    .end quote
    
    re-enter the animal twilight zone... du du du du du du!!!!!
    
    JW  8}
        

    
    As a read-only I just had to respond to this one....
    
    Yes it can be done and it does work and it's wonderful!!!  Especially
    if you are having a specific problem that you just can't seem to work
    out.  Though I don't own a horse, I have "talked" to some and have had
    wonderful conversations.  I too was skeptical when I first heard about
    non-verbal communication but when we acquired a dog with a background
    of severe abuse, I wanted to make his transition into our family as 
    smoothe as possible, so I contacted a local woman who does this.  I had
    quite alot of  info on this dog's background but I knew that the
    communicator didn't and she was right on about what the dog was saying.  
    From there, I attended a workshop that this woman gives and realized
    that I had been communicating on my own but just didn't realize it.  I
    read Beatrice Lydecker's book and then Penelope Smith's.  I have
    attended one of Penelope's lectures and was lucky enough to have a
    consultation with her and one of my dogs when she was in Boston last
    year.  She is excellent!  Earlier this year I had an appointment with
    Dawn Hayman of Spring Farm Cares in New York when I was trying to make
    some decisions about placing one of my birds.  It was done over the
    phone and Dawn gave me the verification that I needed to make the
    decision.  I would highly recommend Dawn and have her number if anyone
    needs it.;')
    
    "Talking" with your animals can be done in different ways.  By using
    pictures, or by voice.  I choose to use voice but will sometimes use
    pictures, usually when working with my cats.  It's pretty simple to do,
    it just takes time to feel comfortable.  I've had some wonderful
    experiences with it.  Rescuing a butterfly and being told his name was
    Claude,  hearing the lovely soft voice of a horse saying she likes to
    run and showing me a picture of her running through the desert sands.
    
    Sounds kinda crazy but it had made a big difference in my relationship
    with all animals.  And has allowed me to pass on some special messages
    to owners who have wondered about their pets.
    
    Try it!!  You might be in for a surprise!
    
    MaryAnne

    Sorry, but I'm having a hard time believing this.  What form does the
    communication take, I mean, if I wanted to "talk" with one of my cats
    exactly what would I say or do?  How would the cat communicate back
    to me?
    
    I wonder what "The Amazing Randi" would think about this?  For those
    of you who don't know who he is, Randi is a debunker of fraudulent
    spiritualists, clairvoyants, mediums, fortune-tellers, etc.  I'm not
    saying that this animal communication stuff is fakery, but I would
    like a little proof before I can buy into it.
    
    Carl

    
    		Hey, this would be great!  I could go to Rockingham
    	and 'talk' to the horses before they ran!  You know, things
    	like, "Psssst, hey number 5, if you hang back this race, I'll
    	tell your trainer to give you extra grain tonight!"  I could
    	hang around the paddock and see if they've all had a chat and
    	decided amongst themselves who should win etc..	
    		Imagine the possibilities......   ;^)
    
                        Yeah, right,
    
                               Bob                   

>>  I wonder what "The Amazing Randi" would think about this?  For those
>>  of you who don't know who he is, Randi is a debunker of fraudulent
>>  spiritualists, clairvoyants, mediums, fortune-tellers, etc.  I'm not
>>  saying that this animal communication stuff is fakery, but I would
>>  like a little proof before I can buy into it.
    
    I'm not sure of "Randi" but there is a show on Public TV, either
    Nova or Frontline where a "debunker" puts out a challange, something
    like $250,000.00 for anyone in this category who can pass a 
    double-blind test.

    Needless to say no one can.

>>  saying that this animal communication stuff is fakery, but I would

    After watching this show, you will know the answer.

    Bill   

    Mental images may be possible but I have doubts about "conversing" in
    human languages. The basic doubts I have about sending worded messages 
    to animals are simple:
    	1. What makes you think all horses understand English? Or whatever
    	   language you're transmitting in?
    		For example, when I was in college, I knew someone who was
    		very much into retrieving-type bird dogs. He bought a dog
    		that had been trained in Denmark by a famous trainer. He
    		very quickly found out that neither the trainer nor the dog
    		spoke English! He gave the dog a verbal command and the dog
    		would either do nothing or do the wrong thing(when the
    		English command sounded similar to some Danish command).
    		He resorted to universal hand signals and paired them with 
    		the English commands until the dog learned English commands.
    
    	2. Even among *people* who speak the same language, we are
    	   frequently misunderstood. It seems foolish to expect another 
    	   *species* to not only "speak" our language but to communicate
    	   unambiguously in it. Although chimpanzees and gorillas have been
    	   taught sign language, scientists have been trying for years to 
    	   teach dolphins to communicate in a language humans can
    	   understand. They have failed...but all we have to do is think in
    	   our natural language and the animals get the message. Sure.
    

    Well, I finished reading the article last night.  Once it got into the
    'over the telephone' part it gets downright ridiculous.  The author
    claims it works almost everytime, *except* that she cannot 'find'
    missing animals.   Her explanation for this lack of
    ability is that, during the phone connects, her telepathy is with
    the owner, who is providing the telepathic link to the animal.  When
    the animal is lost (stolen, run away, whatever) the owner
    sub-conciously believes the link (bond) to be broken so it doesn't work.  
    How convenient!
    
    John's question about horses understanding English occurred to me, too.
    I just thought it too silly a question to ask. :-)  

    I am reminded of my favourite H.L. Menken phrase:
    
    "Nobody ever went broke under-estimating the intelligence of the
    American Public".
    
    Fortune tellers, horoscope writers, consultants and a host of
    others make varying degrees of a living from telling people what they
    want to hear.

    I can't completely agree. I've had three specific instances of being
    'called' to the barn at very odd hours with the overwheming feeling
    that something was wrong with my horse, each time she was sick or hurt.
    The last time this happened it was late at night, I told my husband
    that I had to go to the barn, something is wrong with the horse, I was
    that certain and it was right. 
    
    By the way, I read the article, I tried it, I hate to say but it was
    easy and 'seemed' to work. Overwheming feelings, not words. Who knows.
    
    Sharon

    
    Ok, I was hoping to have some more positive responses but I guess I'm
    not surprised.  Most people don't believe in this.  I guess you just
    have to have it happen to you to understand it.  As far as the language
    thing goes, I agree that if an animal is brought up around a different
    language, no doubt it wouldn't understand english.  However it is very
    easy to use "pictures" ie. sending thoughts back and forth in a
    situation like this.  Visualizing, if you will.  Example...
    An animal is limping and the vet can't figure out why.  You don't
    remember the animal hurting itself but nothing you've tried is working.
    So you sit with the animal and just do some relaxing breathing.  Then
    you visualize the animal's leg bit by bit starting with the shoulder. 
    Most animals are quite receptive to this though they might at first be
    surprised that you are attempting to communicate this way.  If the
    problem is in the shoulder you might experience the type of pain the
    animal is feeling.  If the pain is in a different part of the leg, you
    may get a picture (in your mind) of that particular part.  And so it
    goes till you can narrow it down.
    
    Another use of sending pictures is what I do when I'm looking for my
    cat.  She's an indoor cat but hides very well and is also very in tune
    to this type of communication.  All I do is send a pictures of her in
    front of me and out she pops!  Lot's easier than searching the house.
    
    As for lost animals.  It's very difficult.  Some communicators have
    said that some of the animals don't feel lost so they have no reason to
    try to get home, or to answer the questions.  Also it is quite possible
    to "tune in" to the wrong animal.  And consider that animals can travel
    quite a distance and saying "a street with lots of tall buildings"
    could mean just about anywhere.  
    
    Here's a couple of examples from my "file"
    I took my rescued dog to a workshop on communication.  One by one our
    animals were brought in for the group to talk to.  I had never met any
    of these people before in my life.  They knew nothing of me or my dog.
    Each animal was asked the exact same questions. One was "what do you
    like to do"  My dog gave a picture of himself running, and in fact that
    was one of the things he loved to do.  Then he was asked to describe
    his yard.  We have a "dog yard" , a large fenced in area for the dogs
    and I expected him to say something about that.  Instead one of the
    women asked if we had something white in the middle of the front yard.
    I thought for a moment and realized he was talking about the bird bath
    that the dogs used to drink out of.
    
    Our house was robbed a few years back.  The dogs were crated in the
    basement but the cats and birds were there to see.  The first person I
    called while the police were looking around the house was an animal
    communicator.  I asked her if any of the animals could tell me
    anything.  Her answer was a description of two young men in jeans and
    flannel shirts.  One had long hair and could possibly be a female.  We
    found one of the cats later, acting quite shell-shocked and I told him
    to just tell what he saw.  My friend called me the next day and said
    she had gotten a picture of the car and described it to me.  Eventually
    the criminals were arrested and when we went to identify some of our
    things we were shown the mug shots.  They were two young men in flannel
    shirts, one with longer hair.  We asked if the car was a light green or
    blue and the cop just looked at us funny.  "How did you know?" he
    asked.  "My cat told me" I replied.
    
    There are those that will "debunk" anything.  As for teaching the
    dolphins to communicate, I maintain they are going about the wrong way.
    Maybe I'm crazy, sometimes I think so.  But when I say something to
    someone about their pet and they look at me strange and ask how I knew,
    I just shrug and say I just know.
    
    As with any "profession" there are good and bad, honest and dishonest.
    But when someone tells me something that noone else could know, well I
    guess I just have to believe.  It has made my relationship with animals
    much richer and I know I have touched the lives of those animals too. 
    And no matter what you belive, nothing can take the feeling of those
    experiences away.  
    
    I'll be glad to help anyone interested in this in any way I can.  Feel
    free to contact me off line.
    
    MaryAnne
                                                            

    Thanks, MaryAnne.
    
    There is so much in life that we DON'T know that it seems absurd to me
    that anyone can say with certainty that everyone that believes as you
    do is wrong.  I believe that nothing is impossible... I just can't seem
    to prove it.
    
    JW 8}

    ...is in the eating.  So goes the old saying.  I'm not saying that
    any proponent of this type of animal communication is wrong.  I
    require a little more proof before I can believe such a thing.  The
    Amazing Randi, the professional debunker I mentioned a few notes
    back, has said that we should be skeptical of anyone who:
    
       * purports to have some kind of telepathic or psychic ability
    
       * wants money or something of value for their services
    
    These are the hallmarks of the typical psychic scam.  Randi has debunked
    literally thousands of people who've claimed to have powers beyond
    the usual 5 senses.  There is *not one* person who Randi has come up
    against that he has not been able to prove a fraud, Uri Geller
    included.  In many cases the persons really did believe that they had
    some kind of extra ability, but they had apparently psyched themselves,
    as well as others, into believing it.
    
    Anyone out there ever watch "Arthur C. Clarke's World of Strange
    Powers" on the Discovery Channel?  In the vast majority of the cases he
    examines world wide, there is positive proof of fraud or a scientific
    proof of how such a thing could happen.
    
    The point of all this is that the preponderance of evidence *strongly*
    suggests that telepathy is not possible.  It is with this in mind that
    I, and others like me, are asked to consider telepathic communication
    with horses, dogs, cats, and other animals.  It's not that I'm closed
    minded -- I would like to believe that we have some kind of latent or
    dormant power yet untapped; I'm highly skeptical, knowing what I do.
    
    I propose a test where we can all find out for ourselves what we should
    think about animal communication.  How about one of you communicators
    out there giving us a step-by-step plan to follow, one that has had
    success with you in the past and that we can all agree would provide
    enough proof of success or BS.  Any takers?
    
    Carl
    
    P.S.  There are some things in life that are impossible:  my wife, my
          boss, the races... ;>{)

    It does need to be pointed out that the 'amazing Randi' may himself
    have incredible 'psychic' powers in that he is able to block others
    from communication.  There is no reason to believe that his intense 
    belief that it can not be done is any weaker than their belief that
    it can.  Doubt is very strong is many aspects of life. "Believe you 
    can or can't, either way your right!" is a saying I believe applies
    to most things.
    
    I do think I was able to 'communicate' with my two horses the other day
    after reading that article.  I guess because the 'feelings' I had were
    not like anything I've experienced before. Putting words to them
    does not seem to do them justice, they were more intense than words,
    like 200 of this word squeezed into one second, and 200 of that one.
    Maybe I made it up, that is very possible, it did surprise me though
    and I will probably try it again sometime.
    
    Sharon

	I want to thank you, too, MaryAnne - I appreciate your talking
	about this; you risked quite a bit! At any rate, like someone
	else said, I believe there's a lot more to this than I'm aware
	of, and I can't prove it or disprove it. I like to think, 
	though, that it's possible!

	-julie

    A year or two ago Practical horseman had an article by Sally Swift
    about imagery.  Since I never read anything by her I was looking forward
    to reading it.  I didn't get too far because she was explaining her
    theory on how the horses body and actions will follow yours. While the
    rider was interacting on the horses back I was somewhat skeptical, then
    when she was talking about leading the horse in hand and it would copy
    you, I stopped reading and started laughing.  It has occured to me now
    that perhaps she may believe in the telephathy communication and that's 
    what she was getting at. 
    Would anyone familiar with her teachings care to comment?
    
    Sharon

    No, Sally Swift was not espousing telephathic communication with
    animals. What she was refering to are a few simple facts:
    	1. Horses basic 5 senses are far superior to ours. They detect
    	   things which we don't/can't.
    
    	2. Horses are herd animals and play "follow-the-leader" very well.
    	   I have had horses who were frightened to walk on an icy path
    	   follow directly behind me because they saw that I could walk 
    	   safely.
    
    	3. When you think about doing something, your body probably tense
    	   the muscles you would use to do it. That's a scientific fact
    	   which has been provedn in laboratory studies. If I recall the
    	   explanation correctly, thinking about doing an action causes
    	   impulses to be sent along the neural pathways to the appropriate
    	   muscles as a preparatory action. These neural impulses cause a
    	   change in the tone of the affected muscles. I suspect that the 
    	   horse can detect this change in muscle tone and responds to it.
    
    	   Example: Have you ever *thought* about making a change in gait
    	   when you get to a certain spot which is ahead of you and had 
    	   the horse do it immediately?
    
    	   I have. But, that doesn't make my horse a mind reader! It simply
    	   means that I have to learn to think about doing something while
    	   suppressing any change that the thought might cause in my body.

    Don't mistake anything I've said as trying to put a damper on the
    discussion. Actually, I would very much *like* it to be true that we
    humans could communicate telephathically with animals.
    
    I have often wondered how much of what we consider *extra-sensory*
    perception could simply be supra-normal sensory perception. What I mean
    is simply this: I know some people who are very good observers. They
    notice the most subtle changes in body language, usage, posture,
    expression, etc. You name it and they can tell you when it changes and
    sometimes describe what you were thinking from the changes! It's *not*
    ESP because I've heard them explain how they do it and teach it to others.
    It's simply skill at using the normal senses; sometimes in unusual ways
    but always the normal senses.
    
    Don't you do it yourself? After a lifetime of living with horses and
    dogs, I can tell when a friend or co-worker is ill or upset simply by
    looking at them. 
    
    I've stopped asking "What's wrong?" because sometimes they haven't yet 
    noticed themselves or are trying to pretend that nothing is wrong. 
    For example, I once asked a friend why she was so tense. She said "What 
    do you mean? I don't feel tense." I told her what I saw(clenched jaw, 
    tight neck, shoulders & chest, etc). Later in the day, she said "D*%& 
    it, John. Why did you have to tell me! I hate it when I'm uptight and 
    don't know why."
    
    I sure ain't no mind-reader but I am a better than average observer.
    So, suppose somebody was *really* good at observation. Wouldn't that
    seem like ESP to less skilled observers? 
    
    How much ESP is extremely good observation?

    
    Yes, John,  but the *thought* is there.  You may just be sending a
    picture to the horse that he is picking up on.  I don't own horses and
    have limited riding ability but I can give an example with dogs.  
    
    How many folks do you know that say they can't let their dog off a lead
    because it will run away?  What happens is that as soon as the dog is
    free, the person immediately visualizes the dog running off.  The dog
    picks up that picture and responds by running off!  Teach that person
    to visualize the dog not leaving a certain area and the dog will be
    less apt to run off.  *note that I sad less apt to.  You can only make
    the suggestion, the dog has the option to refuse!  Nothing is perfect
    but it sure can help!
    
    so if Sally Swift is visualizing the horse following her, then it makes
    sense that the horse is getting the picture.
    
    Just wanted to say thanks for the support both on and off line.  For
    those of you who have tried this, keep up the good work!  Use it ,
    practice it, play with it!  Enjoy it!
    
    MaryAnne

    So, no takers for the animal communications test?  I'm game if
    anybody else is.
    
    Carl

    Re Carl's animal communications test
    
    I'd like to try it. I wanna see if I can communicate with my
    knuckleheaded gelding and figure out how his head works(I use the term
    loosely)...
    
    .0 says that the Practical Horseman article on animal communications 
    gave instructions for those who want to try this. Could some who
    subscribes to Practical Horseman type up th einstructions?
    
    J

    I'll give it a shot, too, and will bring the instructions in on Monday
    to enter in this note for anyone else who'd like to try it.  The real
    test to me, however, would be to have one of these communicators
    volunteer to 'contact' my mare and tell me something about her that
    only I would know.  And there are plenty of options, I know her very
    well and am the only human who spends any amount of time with her.
    Any volunteers? :-)
    

    I been reading this string  and although I'd like to believe it,
    I guess I have to be *shown* to believe.  I know my husband would
    put me in the funny farm......
    
    I will say that my cat does talk to me in her own way.....basic stuff
    like let me out, feed me milk, luv ya.....maybe it could go further.
    In fact if one of these communicators could tell me why she stopped
    leaving me `presents'...and could tell my puppy to start lifting his
    leg (instead of peeing oall over himself)....I'd probably believe.

    Carl, Just the fact that your strongly trying to disprove someones
    ability will provide enough intimidation to prove yourself right. 
    
    For example:  Lets say that when I'm alone and relaxed I can crumple up
    a sheet of paper and casually toss it across the room into a
    wastebasket 40 feet away. If I'm relaxed, not concentrating I never
    miss. I tell you about  it. You laugh at me and tell me 'no way',
    you're going to 'test' me. You bring in a crowd so they can all watch
    me 'fail'. Do you think I could still do it?  Why would I want to
    anyway, I'd try a shot, I'd miss, pressures on. I'd really concentrate
    and take another shot, hear the quiet chuckles as I miss again. I'd begin 
    to think your right, maybe it was just luck, I was wrong, it was just 
    coincidence, I'd feel dumb.  
    
    What you're asking is for someone to tell you how, so you can try it,
    and prove it can't be done?  I might tell you how to relax and casually
    toss to the basket, but if you honestly believe it can't be done, your
    subconcious will always support your belief, not your effort. You will 
    miss, even if you're trying. 
        
    It's not that I believe either way on the telepathic thing, I'm just
    pointing out the problem with your test.
    
    Sharon

    Well, you may have a point there, Sharon.  But surely this is the
    case only with amateur communicators.  Naturally, a professional
    who is going around the country, even over the telephone, and being
    rewarded for their efforts in $$ feel no such intimidation and would
    welcome the chance to prove their abilities, yes?  Merely a casual
    observation, I'm not trying to make any particular point here. :-)
    
    Well, I promised to enter the instuctions from the PH article, and
    naturally forgot to bring it in today.  Sorry about that, I'll
    try to remember to put it in the truck tonite so I have it tomorrow.
    
    

    Now that this subject has been brought up, Il'l admit that I to,
    have telepathic powers.  

    But I am sorry to say that any kind of test of these powers interferes
    with the process so I always fail the tests.

    B
    

    What you're saying is that this "ability" is like Tinkerbell, the little
    fairy in the Peter Pan fantasy: She only lived if everyone believed.
    And this ability only works if there are no non-believers present to 
    "interfere" with the good vibrations.
    
    You're building in an excuse for failure. "Your doubt prevented me from
    succeeding." Somehow, that doesn't give me very much confidence in 
    the claims, especially those that say "anybody can do it"... BTW, over 
    the weekend, I looked at the July EQUUS. They had the same type of 
    article and a little sidebar on how to do it. The instructions were
    rather vague:
    
    	1. Recognize that your horse is a being with feelings rather than a
           furry motorcycle.
    	2. Spend quiet time with the horse and clear your mind; 
    	3. Believe you can do it
    	4. Send mental images rather than worded messages; They work better
    	5. Send and expect to receive messages - even if it doesn't work
           the first time, it will "prepare" you to receive responses in
           the future. The claim is that anybody can do it with practice
    
    John

    Instructions from PH:
    
    1) go for a quiet hack, or other relaxing activity with your horse
    
    2) turn down your mental chatter - quiet yourself and focus on your
    	horse and what his world might be like at this moment
    
    3) imagine your just saying hello to your horse - say it out loud
     	if you like
    
    4) image him saying hello back - you may actually feel that he has
    	responded, or you may feel nothing now but suddenly sense a
    	response later, when your' not trying to communicate at all
    
    	** his response may come in any variety of forms, from sound
    	to images to thoughts or feelings
    
    5) whether you think you have made contact or not, thank your horse
    	for trying to talk to you; aloud or just in your head, accept and
    	acknowlegdeg that he *has* tried to answer.  If you don't
    	acknowledge his efforts he may become discouraged
    
    That's about it for actual 'instructions' in this article.  She goes
    on to say you should never demand proof from your horse, example:
    "okay, if you can really hear me, walk over to your water bucket
    right now".  
    
    

  Re: .30

  Mental or psychological activity is VERY different from physical activity,
  and a person's own doubts can cause him/her to fail. In addition, the
  doubts of others can heighten one's own doubts. 

  You can call these "vibrations", "Tinkerbell" or anything else, but I
  believe that doubt or encouragement from surrounding people can have a
  great deal to do with the success or failure of mental or even psychic
  activity. It's not a binary condition, as much as "logical" engineering
  types would like to view things that way.

  I don't believe this is an excuse for failure; people who have done this
  a lot and have a great deal of experience will not be affected by the
  doubts of others. Those of us who never have done it, and would like to
  try, but have little confidence or a great deal of doubt in our own
  abilities to do something like this, then, can be affected by the doubt
  of others.

  So - "tests" should only be done on those who know what they're doing. The
  rest of us who want to should try it alone, off by ourselves, with no
  audience, no nay-sayers, no "tests".

  Like they say "don't knock it 'til you've tried it"!

    
    I'm in the process of trying to set up a workshop with Dawn Hayman.
    I don't have any of the particulars worked out yet other than it will
    be in NH, next year (hopefully).  If anyone is interested in
    attending please send me your name, address, phone number so I 
    can start a list.  Also if you have any suggestions for a place to hold
    it I'm listening. ( I have a couple in mind)
    
    Info can be forward to MKOTS4::MACDONALD_M
    or you can drop me a postcard at PO BOX 133
                                     New Boston NH  03073-133
    
    Thanks!  
    MaryAnne
                                                             

    Did anybody read their Sep 1994 EQUUS yet? In the Letters column,
    they said they were swamped with mail and calls about their animal
    communicators article and that they were only printing a small portion
    of them...predictably, they printed eaxctly the same number of "for"
    letters as those "against"...Don't they ever get a sore crotch from
    sitting on the fence?
    
    Interestingly, a couple of the letters complained about EQUUS
    abandoning its original charter(health care of the horse) for 
    "touchy-feely psuedo-science"[as one letter writer put it]
    
    That's been a complaint of mine for years. They've had more articles
    training, riding, etc in recent years than anything remotely related to
    health care....

    Warning!!  This reply contains potentially controversial material.
    
    A couple of weeks ago there was an article in the Wall Street Journal
    about a psychic's retreat.  I forget the exact details, but the
    group running the retreat wants to have psychicness thought of as a
    credible endeavor, rather than what is currently commonly thought,
    that is, a bunch of fakery.  Psychic experts and wannabes from
    around the world go to this retreat.  The roster of participants is
    a who's-who of psychicdom.
    
    So they maintain that a "real" psychic has certain skills and
    comportment and shouldn't mind being tested by a jury of other real
    psychics.  The successful testee gets a certificate saying that s/he's
    for real, undersigned by the best and most recognized psychics in the
    world.
    
    What's the world coming to anyway?  I mean, really -- expecting our
    psychics to submit to testing to prove themselves.  How silly!!  Gosh,
    that would mean putting onesself in a pressure situation, which might
    mean failure, discredit, or self-doubt.  Thank God we don't require
    the same of animal communicators.
    
    Carl

    Well, Carl you really S T O M P E D on us with that -1; no one dares
    talk about an interesting and heart-warming subject though perhaps
    wishful thinking:
    
    	. the ability to communicate with your prized animals
    	. learning what your animal may need
    	. finding out how we are perceived by the animal
    
    I submit that all of these are possible, but not necessarily thru
    psychics, but by study, attention to detail, and by caring.  Yeah, we
    may be duped because we're trying to learn, but if we don't learn as
    much as we can about what can be done, we may miss out on more than by
    being made a fool of.  Remember, the Earth revolves around the Sun
    despite common sense and Y O U R observation.
    
    Your friend,
    
    JW 8}
    

    >> Remember, the Earth revolves around the Sun
    >> despite common sense and Y O U R observation.
    
    Wow, I really like this thought, it never occured to me. A miracle to 
    consider anytime I've got doubts!
    
    Thanks!
    Sharon 

    Haven't you got it wrong way round? If I remember my history of science 
    correctly, the common belief was that the sun revolved around the earth
    and that this was evidence that the earth was the center of the
    universe. This position was accpeted dogmatically without proof because
    the church said it was so. Through careful observation, Gallileo proved 
    that the earth in fact revolves round the sun. He was excommunicated by
    the church for heresy because he dared to challenge the false "miracle"
    supported by the church.

    it's a miracle either way, don't you think? 
    
    When we have a scientific explanation, then it's a fact, then it's no 
    longer a miracle. You know, like we're just hurtling through space on 
    this wet ball, spinning around a flaming ball that gives us energy 
    and life, it all makes sense now. 1000 years from now they'll laugh at 
    what we used to think, anyway. Maybe they'll all be 'communicating' with 
    their pets, who knows?
    
    )))Sharon

    >it's a miracle either way, don't you think?
    
    Amazing? Astonishing? Yes.  Miracle? No, to me a miracle is something 
    inexplicable. What many would call "an act of God" 

    I think we're saying the same thing, Galileo... ;}
    
    The Earth revolves around the Sun... D E S P I T E... common sense;
    e.g., we still say "the Sun rises and the Sun sets", which I believe is
    based on the "horse sense" that we see it rise and set (when in fact the
    Earth is actually rotating on its axis, thereby exposing the surface of
    the Earth we happen to be situated upon to the Sun's rays). 
    
    Anyone observing this phenomenon, however, would conclude with the early
    Church and not with Galileo without STUDY (which, of course is my point).
    
    In other words, if we would like to talk to the animals, listening and 
    possibly learning something from those who claim to do so is worthwhile
    study.  Poo pooing them without trying to learn from them is
    unscientific, like the early Church would have done.
    
    So who's side are you on?  Those who listen or those who already know
    better?
    
    Got it? Good!
    
    Regards,
    
    JW 8}
    

Speaking as a moderator:

We are starting to get off the subject of animal communication.

Please do not use this note to "overanalyze" another's belief whether
it is scientifically or intuitively based. Please respect another
person's viewpoint even if you find it unreasonable or even silly.

Discussion of animal-human communication is legitimate. I think the
arguments against the seriousness of this topic have been stated
already. It is not productive to go around the circle again.

Thanks for your understanding. If you would like to discuss this
further, please contact me via E-Mail.

co-mod (acting alone here.)

Vicky
TUXEDO::JANICKI

    I think you're missing my point. What I was trying to say is this:
    anecdotal evidence(e.g. "I tried it and it seemed to work.") that
    supports the possibility of interspecies mental communication is more 
    like the church's position(i.e. earth = center of universe). You all 
    seem to be saying that it's more like Gallileo's study. 
    
    Animal communication *hasn't* been studied and, as long as the earlier 
    comments about "testing doesn't apply" prevail, it *CAN'T* be studied 
    or taken seriously in the way that you imply by comparing it to astronomy. 
    
    Do you think anybody would have taken Gallileo seriously if they hadn't 
    been able to test his theory and reproduce his results?
    
    Who's side am I on? Those who would listen if you can prove someone is
    speaking.
    
    So, go ahead and study. Show me the results and the method as Gallileo 
    was required to do when he said the earth revolves around the sun.
    Then, I'll be glad to listen.
    
    Got it? Good! 
    

    
     The animal communication workshop with Jeri Ryan is scheduled for the
    weekend of Sept 29, 30 and Oct 1
    
    Lecture Friday night
    Level I workshop on Sat.  Level II workshop on Sun
    
    For more info please feel free to contact me
    
    disclaimer.....I'm only sponsoring the workshop (ie doing the legwork) 
    I get nothing from it but the enjoyment
    
    MaryAnne

I didn't see a note for the "animal communicator" John if their is one can you
please move this.

Alot of folks I know have had the "animal communicator" out to their barn.  Her
name is Jeanine and she is from NH.  My friends have all had super experiences
with this.  And I am having Sultan read on Sunday.  I will let you know how
it goes.

The feedback I have gotten has been super.  This person does saw some general
things, but most of the stuff she comes out with is stuff that only you and
your horse could know. example

1.  Sue, your horse says it is okay to put your daughter back on and he wont 
    throw her off.  	
		A few yrs earlier the horse had thrown off Sue's daughter.
		their was no way for Jeanine to know this.

2. Debbie, your horse wants to know why your right leg is heavier then your left
		Debbie had broken her right leg the yr before

3. Darlene, your horse wants you to know she had baby
		After research, the horse did have a baby

4. Sandra, Hobbs wants to know where your other horse is?  He wants to met
   him.
		Sandas horse Zeus died, and when she got Hobbs they kept
		calling him Zeus and comparing him to Zeus


There were alot of other neet things she said, but those are the ones I can
think of right now.

I'll let you know who it goes

Louisa