Conference noted::equitation

   Funny you should mention it - I just had someone ask me this weekend
   why my saddle flaps and bridle/martingale were so soft. I've been using
   the spray-on glycerine soap to wash them, and wiping them down with Blue
   Ribbon or Tanner's oil, then later wiping them with a soft cloth. 

   My horse and I really get the tack dirty; I ride an average of 5 times
   a week, outside, sweaty hands, soaking wet horse who drools and slobbers
   all over everything! When indoors, the dust is really disgusting - black
   stuff that gets in your nose/ears, etc.

   When I don't have time to do a "deep" cleaning, I use Horseman's One-Step.
   I've used it for about 7 or 8 years for quick touch-ups and really like
   it. Some people complain because it leaves white gunk in the buckle holes,
   or other places, but I've never had a problem with it.

   However, I think the REAL secret to my success is not cleaning the tack
   too often...(smiley face here!)

   -julie

    
    
    Try the old fashioned way.  Good ol' English glycerine.
    
    Apply w/a well wrung out sponge.  Too much water in your sponge makes 
    for a sudsy mess.
    
    
    

    I'll second that one - use it all the time and always have done!
    
    Liz

    >I'll second that one - use it all the time and always have done!
    
    Which? Chelsea Leather Food, Glycerine or Tanner's Oil?
    
    Any road...What got me thinking about this subject is that every time
    I turn around, I see some saddle maker or leather goods merchant
    touting the "One and only true way to clean & preserve leather"...
    
    I've encountered a *WIDE* range of "recommended methods." A maker of
    western saddles recommended soaking the saddle in a horse trough to
    loosen the crud, scrubbing vigorously with saddle soap & brushes and 
    then applying a heavy layer of Neatsfoot Oil.
    
    An English saddle maker claimed that one should never use saddle soap
    to clean tack. They say to use gentle skin soap such as Ivory or Castille 
    to clean tack and then use a light coat of Lexol to preserve and 
    condition it.
    
    A German saddle maker says use soap that foams to clean tack & rinse it
    thoroughly. This saddle maker says never to use *any* oil to condition
    tack because that would make the leather too soft to do its job. They
    say to use "leather balsam" rather than oils like Lexol or Neatsfoot
    Oil.
    
    A tack shop owner whose opinion I respected once told me that she used
    only Hydrophane Leather Dressing because she couldn't get Lexol to "do"
    anything...
    
    I was hoping somebody had some info on the advantages/disadvantages of
    such conditioners as:
    	1. Chelsea Leather Food, 
    	2. Tanner's Oil
    	3. Lexol
    	4. Hydrophane Leather Dressing
    	5. Neatsfoot Oil
    	6. Neatsfoot Oil Compound
    	7. Leather Balsam(or Lederbalsam)
    
    
    Any info would be appreciated

I remember being told this a couple of years ago - that Lexol will cause your
stitching to rot faster. Has anyone else heard this?


p.s. polling saddle/leather cleaners
...I use Horsemen's One Step.....

I use castile soap with a barely damp sponge to get the crud off. I then
follow with glycerine (also with a barely damp sponge). For me it seems
to get the leather clean, and leave it feeling nice.  Once in a blue moon,
when my saddle starts to lighten/get dry , I will use something else on it
instead of or before the glycerine to moisturize it.  I have used

	a) neatsfoot oil (light coat), followed by glycerine,
		(don't ride in light breeches for a time or two)
	b) Cooper's saddle compound, made by Tony Cooper, a saddler
	   who lives/works in Sudbury/W. Royalston MA
	c) Ko-Cho-Line (only tried this once so far. It's red, and I've 
	   been riding in black breeches, so I have no idea about whether
	   it rubs off or not.)

My bridle(s) only gets the castile/glycerine.  The saddles get moisturized 
a few times per year, depending on the weather and my motivation.  

re: Hydrophane.  A horse in my barn was severely allergic to this stuff.  He
lost all the hair under his halter and got irritations from the saddle and
bridle after she used this stuff. Needless to say, she only used it once!





kathy

re: .5

I heard this many moons ago (in the 70's). I think that subconsciously
that's a reason I don;t use the product.  Although, at camp, where
the camp horses always started the summer with new bridles, we had 
a penchant for 'hot oiling' with heated Lexol to darken the leather
faster (who wants to be seen with orange tack???)

But,  I've also heard this (will rot the stitching) about neatsfoot 
oil also.  I figure that by using it sparingly, and only on major hunks 
leather (like saddle flaps that have minimal stitching) I won't fall 
victim if it is true.

kathy

    And to add another thought - a pony clubber once told me they were
    taught to use glycerine saddle soap *after* a thorough cleaning to add
    moisture - and to use it as recommended - by letting it dry after
    application using minimal water - and buffing with soft cloth.  My tack
    looks and feels great by doing this.  I use neatsfoot just a few times
    a year - and use One-Step every now and then.  I don't like rinsing
    anything in water since it will make the surface of the leather spotty
    and whitened until you oil it again.  I'll keep going over a really
    crummy leather piece with soap/dry/buff until it gets cleaned.  I find
    there's no build up on the insides of the bridle this way.
    
    You have to be careful using One Step near suede - I got some on the
    knee rolls and it turned them white and was hard to remove.
    
    - Janice

    
    
    
    	What about a saddle that is really dry, what would be the best way
    to treat it.
    
    Donna

I used to live in Colorado and the arid atmosphere really takes its
toll on tack (ok, ok, so I helped it a bit by not cleaning my tack
regularly).  I used a variety of things on dry tack, but the most useful
was Lederbalsam made by Passier.  It didn't make the saddle or bridle so
sticky and it produced a beautiful sheen.  

My problem since moving to Atlanta is that the humidity takes it toll.  I
was using neetsfoot and the Lederbalsam, but had to quit because the leather
got too wimpy.  Now, since its been raining so much, I've found that 2 days
after the tack is clean, mold starts to grow.  I cleaned it with ammonia
(according to John's instructions), but that didn't do it.  A friend recommended
a brief dip in the ammonia solution with everything taken apart (just the
bridle and breastplate/martingale).  I did this, but now its all stiff and
it seems no matter how much oil I apply, it just stays dry.  

I've never used the One Step product.....Is it just what the name implies?
One product that cleans and conditions the leather?

Thanks,

Jan

    Jan,
    
    	You might want to try One Step since it has disinfecting
    ingredients that remove/prevent mold.  To bring the leather back after
    it's dried is keep oiling it and when you do - heavily coat the strap
    and move it back and forth to gently stretch the pores - it will absorb
    faster and you'll notice most of the oil disappear from the surface.  Be
    careful not to fold the leather - too much force and it could crack and 
    break.  I've brought back very stiff old saddles this way.
                 
    - Janice

    re .4:  "too soft to do its job" - what does that mean? Soft is not a
	synonym for "weak" or for "thin". Specifically why do they think
	soft can't do the job of an English saddle?

    re .5: I find that Lexol leaves a gummy residue over time. When sweat
        gets on it, you can then "roll" the residue off in little black
	balls...yuck.

    re .(I can't remember) - I've known a number of people who have had
        brandy new saddles dipped in a barrel of Tanners' oil. It made
	the saddles easier to break in.

	-julie	
       

    >"too soft to do its job" - what does that mean?
    
    It means that leather can soak up enough oil to become flabby. I
    haven't had that happen with tack but I did have it happen to a
    baseball glove when I was a kid. In childlike logic(I think I was 9 or
    so at the time), I decided "If Neatsfoot Oil is good for leather, I'll
    put lots on my glove this winter and make it better." So, every day
    taht winter, I took a rag and wiped my glove with oil. I stopped when 
    the glove didn't soak up any more oil.  The glove was so flabby it was
    pathetic. But, it sure was soft!
    
    Re glycerine
    
    A couple people have said to make sure your sponge is well-wrung out or
    the glycerine will make a sudsy mess...
    
    I read somewhere that a better way to use glycerine bars is to just
    dunk them in water and then rub the leather directly with the bar. In
    other words, eliminate the middle-man(i.e. the sponge). Has anybody
    tried that? Sounds like it's worth a shot. I've never liked glycerine
    for the simple reason that even a slightly damp sponge makes a mess with
    glycerine. Maybe I'll try that trick before I give up on glycerine
    completely.

re: glycerine

I take my dry sponge, get it wet, squeeze it out by hand, and then 
squeeze it out in a towel.  I now have a barely damp sponge.  I then 
rub it over the end of the bar of glycerine (this way I don't get the 
u-shaped bar) and then apply to the tack.  When the sponge gets too dry,
I then dip the end of the bar of glycerine in the water, not the sponge.
It seems to provide enough moisture to do the trick.  (I use this same
method with the castile soap.  It keeps the suds to a minimum.

kathy

    Cross posted from rec.equestrian:
Subject: Re: Oiling new saddle
Date: 29 Aug 1994 

The Pony Club method (sometimes I feel like I should have a little R in 
a little circle (-:) is to clean, then oil, then preserve, which, roughly
speaking, means Murphy Oil Soap, Neatsfoot Oil, then Saddle "soap", which
is really used as a wax to seal the leather pores.

Castile soap and certain other leather cleaners substitute for the Murphys,
I like Mink Oil instead of Neatsfoot, and others swear by Hydrophane, and
there are a bunch of glycerin sealants available.

With a new saddle, you  may not need to clean (but then again, you may.
Some have a showroom finish on them you may want to strip off).  The oil
is best introduced in the flesh side of the leather (the 'underside'), not
the finished side (which may be where some of your tackiness has been in
the past).  Glycerin is used on both sides of the leather -- sparingly and
with almost no water at all.  

Depending upon the quality of the leather, you may want to oil more than 
once to start with, and you  may want to 'bend' the oil into the leather, by
manipulating it with your hands.  That's one reason I like mink oil -- it's
a solid and you work it in.

Lots of folks resort to 'one step' cleanings which is fine for frequent lite
use.  The deep, 3 step cleaning is really only necessary when you are going
to oil.  Obviously, in order to get oil in, you have to strip off the protec-
tive waxes (and the attached dirt) first.  

I generally oil once a month, and I ride 3 times a week.  I do a quick saddle
soaping of my bridle after each ride, to remove sweat.  I pass the saddle-soap
sponge over the saddle periodically if we got really dusty, in between monthly
cleanings if it needs it.

Adrienne Regard

    Here's a recent rec.equestrian post similar to something I saw in an
    old western saddle catalog:
    
Article 46534 of rec.equestrian:
Subject: Re: Oiling new saddle
Date: 19 Sep 1994 02:17:36 -0400

Hi-
  There was a very good article in the Quarter Horse Journal last month by
some big time, old time saddle maker. His advise was to wash(!) the saddle
with a mild dish soap solution to clean the pores of any dirt or stuff the
manufacturer put onthe leather to make it pretty.Then let it dry thoroghly,
take a hunk of lambs fleece and slather the non-suede leather with pure
neatsfoot oil, let that soak in over night, oil it again, let THAT soak in,
then dress the leather with something like lexol to seal the pores.
  I haven't used this method yet, but I plan to.

Felicity

    Note 1910.2 had me chuckling with this comment:

    >Try the old fashioned way.  Good ol' English glycerine.

    What's so funny? I'm old enough to remember when glycerine was
    the "new-fangled" way! I started riding in the 50's when 
    glycerine was practically unknown here in the States. BTW, the
    Pony Club(US version, I mean) had barely been invented when 
    I was a kid. In fact, there was no Pony Club where I grew up
    until I was well into my 30's. They said I was too old to join ;-)
    
    Note 222.7 said that the waxy coating on new saddles "is not 
    easily removed with glycerine based saddle soap. In fact, DIRT 
    is not removed with saddle soap.  Saddle soap's purpose in life 
    is to condition leather already clean leather. You want to 
    condition the leather, not the dirt. 
    
    I use Murphy's oil soap or castile soap for cleaning." end quote 
    from Note 222.7 

    I've never liked Murphy's for cleaning leather for 2 reasons:
	1. I don't like the smell of it
	2. The surface of the leather always feels like there's 
           something gummy on it after I've used Murphy's

    I haven't tried Castille soap yet but I might. Generally, I use
    straight water(I can hear the cries of "HERETIC!" now) or water 
    mixed with a dab of ammonia to clean leather. Then, I do my own 
    version of 1-step: Dampen a sponge with Lexol, rub the sponge on
    the saddle soap then and rub it into the leather. 

    This idea that saddle soap is only for conditioning and not for 
    cleaning is different than what I was taught as a kid. I decided 
    to dig around for some more info. First I checked the saddle soap cans.
    There are at least 3 different brands in our tack-room. *All* of 
    them say that they clean and condition leather. The Propert's 
    can(my prefered brand) has instructions as follows: "Produce a 
    lather with a moist sponge & rub well into the leather. Remove 
    surplus with nearly dry sponge. When dry, finish with clean 
    cloth." The other brands(Fiebings and Day, Carr & Smith) had 
    similar instructions except they leave out the "wipe w/nearly 
    dry sponge" part.

    I dug out some books to see what they had to say. Most of the 
    ones I checked hinted that they used water to clean dirt off the 
    tack like I do and then used saddle soap. For example, Margaret 
    Cabell-Self, "HorseMastership"(1952) says: "The important thing 
    is to be sure that all mud and sweat marks are taken off" and 
    then "that whatever[kind of soap] is used is rubbed well into 
    the leather." E. H. Edwards in his book "Bitting" says to
    sponge off sweat and dirt, dry the leather and then rub in a
    glycerine-based saddle soap or something similar. He says to
    finish(polish) with a slightly damp chamois leather and once a 
    week to rub in a leather preparation to grease the leather.

    The other(Charles Kellog, "Driving The Horse In Harness") said not 
    to use saddle soap for cleaning but to use Castille instead. He
    claims that Castille soap cuts through dirt and grease and leaves 
    leather cleaner than saddle soap does. He goes on to say that
    he rubs in liquid glycerine after cleaning with Castille.

    This idea that people have that glycerine is the best for your 
    leather bugs me a little. Why? Remember earlier I said that 
    Propert's was the saddle soap I used and described how I mix Lexol 
    & soap in the same step? Well, the person that taught me that 
    technique told me to use glycerine. I told her that I liked Propert's 
    better but she insisted that glycerine was the only thing to use. I 
    tried it and didn't think the glycerine did as good a job so 
    I switched back to Propert's. Six months later, she comes in and 
    says "Hey, I tried this new saddle soap. It's great! Better than 
    glycerine. It's called Propert's. Have you ever tried it?" ARRRGGGH!!!!

    On that subject, Margaret Cabell-Self said in "HorseMastership" 
    (remember this was back in the 50's before glycerine became a
    sacred cow ;-), "Glycerine soap comes in bars and does as 
    good a job as any of the ordinary saddle soaps which come in 
    cans." 

    After I wrote .17 about saddle soaps and how they don't clean, I decided 
    to try Castille soap for cleaning instead of the straight water or 
    ammonia & water combination that I used previously. 
    
    I don't clean my saddle or bridle daily but I do clean my bits and
    leather girth daily. In winter and spring, the girth gets too dirty and 
    gunked up to clean with water alone. After 18 years, I finally got 
    tired of the ammonia smell in the tack room. So, I started using
    Castille soap last fall.
    
    I like it. It cleans pretty well. Despite Kathy Romberg's advice to use
    a nearly dry sponge(I do rub only on the end of the bar though, Thanks
    Kathy!), I use a fairly wet sponge and make lots of suds. Then, I rinse 
    the sponge out and use it to wipe off the suds. Then, I usually put on 
    a conditioner.
    
    The leather doesn't clean up quite as easily as with the ammonia &
    water but it's pretty good. The other thing I like about it is that the
    Castille is made with coconut oil so it has a slight conditioning
    effect. The ammonia strips everything off and has no conditioners built
    in so you have to be *sure* to put on a leather conditioner every time
    you use it or the leather gets too dry. With the Castille, I can skip
    the conditioner if I'm in a real hurry or if I think the conditioner is
    building up a little.
    
    Ammonia? I'll still use it when I want a *very* deep cleaning but I'll
    use Castille most of the time.
    
    John

Been meaning to post this for weeks! It's what reminded me to post the
    other stuff...

Article 43148 of rec.equestrian:
From: [email protected] (Kristine M. Wilhelm)
Subject: Re: Leather Cleaning?
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:35:57 GMT
Lines: 49

[email protected]  writes:
> MSGID: 1:106/[email protected] 0eaaebf0
> There was an article in the April 1995 Horse Illustrated about caring
> for leather.  It said that the best products for cleaning leather are
> Castile soap or a liquid leather product with a neutral pH.  "Tannic acid
> begins to separate from the elastin proteins in the leather at around pH
> 7 (neutral).  Since the tannic acid is soluble in water, it can simply
> wash away, and the integrity of the leather is compromised, hence a
> reason to avoid water logging your tack."
> 
> Since I work in a chemistry lab, I thought I'd test the pH of some of
> the leather cleaners and conditioners that I had.  Here's what I found.
> 
> Murphy's Oil Soap   pH 11
> 
> Horseman's One Step harness cleaner & conditioner    pH 9
> 
> Lexol Conditioner  pH 7
> 
> Solid block of glycerine saddle soap  pH 10
> 
> Lexol-pH Cleaner  pH 5
> 
> The article said that leather had a natural pH of about 4.  7 is
> neutral.  The lower the number, the more acid.  The higher the number,
> the more alkaline.
> 
> ---
>   OLX 2.1  Karen Hartman and Julio, the Paso Fino

This is interesting, since Dehner just sent me a copy of an
article on the orgins of saddle soap.  They were saying just
the same thing, most saddle soaps are alkaline (high pH) and do
not do and good job cleaning and are harmful to the leather
structure itself.  Therefore the best cleaners are of a low pH
(acidic).  The research itself was done by the chemistry lab at
Lexol.  The Dehner co also recommended using a product called
Bick-4 leather cleaner, which is also acidic in pH.  These new
generation cleaners are also supposed to be much better at
cleanning than saddle soap as well.

Kris Wilhelm

    ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. EQUUS is giving out
    bad info again. In the March 1997 issue, they had a long article on tack
    care. Unfortunately, they got some facts wrong. For example:
    
    "Myth or fact? Only saddle soap should be used on leather.
    
    Myth. While saddle soap is excellent for cleaning leather, it's not the
    only option." (EQUUS #233, March 1997, page 26)
    
    ERROR. Recent research shows that saddle soaps don't clean very well. 
    But, lots of us already knew that! So, how come EQUUS doesn't? ;-)
    
    Quoting from EQUUS again:
    "Also read the product's label to make sure it's pH balanced. 'You want
    your soap to be pretty neutral,' says Kallenberger. 'Alkali is very
    damaging to leather.' What products meet these requirements? As you'd
    expect, most saddle soaps do, but you can also find acceptable leather
    cleaners at your grocery store: Murphy's Oil  soap is gentle enough 
    for leather, as is Wollite." (EQUUS 233, March 1997, page 28)
    
    While they give good advice about making sure the product has a
    neutral pH, they give BAD info about which products are OK. In the
    Tufts' "Horse!" newsletter (July 1996 page 8), there was an article 
    about tack care. They interviewed Randy Rowles who is a research 
    associate at the U. of Cincinnati's Leather Industries Research Lab. 
    
    The article specifically says that saddle soaps are too alkalilne. I
    quote:
    
    "Cleaning products that are highly alkaline (above 10) or very acidic 
    (below 3) can cause the leather's preservative tanning agents to 
    disassociate from the leather's fibers. 'Cleaners that are Ph balanced 
    do the least amount of damage', points out Mr. Rowles. 
    
    Regular saddle and bar soaps are alkaline and therefore potentially 
    damaging."
    
    To me, that means that stuff between a pH of 4 and 9 is OK. If you 
    look back at .19 and you'll see that glycerine saddle soap has pH 10 
    and Murphy's Oil Soap has pH 11. Yet, good ole' EQUUS says they're 
    "pretty neutral" and recommends them as safe for leather! Ya gotta  
    wonder where they're getting their information.
    
    John
    
    John
    
    
    	
    
    

    John,
    
    I'm not too good about cleaning my tack, especially during the winter
    months.  Any good recommendations on something to dissolve the grunge?
    I've never found anything to work well on the thick grunge that builds
    up, like on the inside of a halter.  I've used one of those green
    kitchen scrubber but I'm sure thats not too good for the tack, the
    grunge seems inpenetrable.
    
    What would be good for everyday use?  Right now in the summer months I
    wipe the tack with a liquid saddle soap. 
    
    Sharon

    
    Well, I can't believe I am confessing this in public...
    
    I wanted to clean my very dirty bridle and breastplate prior to a 
    show a couple weeks ago.  The stuff was really crusty. 
    
    I gave up and put them in the washing machine with SA8 for about 3
    minutes (with a couple of towels).  Then I towel dried them.  Then 
    cleaned them with Tattersals.
    
    Later that day after they dried some, I used Lederbalsam.  
    
    The washing really stripped the oil.  So I wiped them off with 
    Tattersals or applied Lederbalsam after every ride for the next 
    5 days.  
    
    The equipment looks and feels fine now.  But I don't know if I would do 
    this again (unless of course I let my stuff get that dirty again). 
    I might try it for a minute...
    
    Mary Jo 

    Sharon,
    
    >I've never found anything to work well on the thick grunge that builds
    >up, like on the inside of a halter. 
    
    I've never found any cleaner that would get through that stuff easily 
    either. The inside of reins where they rub against the horse's neck is
    another "thick grunge" spot. What we do is scrape it off w/ a 
    pocketknife. If you hold the knife at right angles to the leather, 
    you won't hurt it.
    
    >What would be good for everyday use?
    
    Actually, both the EQUUS article and the Horse! article said that
    wiping down tack with a damp sponge was a good way to keep things
    clean. I do that with my saddle but the girth gets too dirty from the
    combination of trail/arena dirt and horse dandruff/sweat. For that, I
    use Castille soap. 
    
    BTW, the liquid saddle soaps are usually glycerine based but check the 
    label. You're brand might be something else.
    
    John