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Conference noted::equitation

Title:Equine Notes Conference
Notice:Topics List=4, Horses 4Sale/Wanted=150, Equip 4Sale/Wanted=151
Moderator:MTADMS::COBURNIO
Created:Tue Feb 11 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2080
Total number of notes:22383

1892.0. "Child falling over pony's neck/head" by AKOCOA::MARJOMAA () Tue May 31 1994 14:56

I have a concern about my 7 yr old daughter riding.

Katie has been taking riding lessons weekly since last August, she also
attended a week long camp in August.  Her lessons began at North Light Farm
in Lunenburg, but we have since changed to Woodgate Farm in Sterling under
the instruction of Sally Chartrand/Frank Perla.  At North Light, Katie was
instructed with the use of a lunge line, within an indoor ring.  When we
switched to Woodgate Farm, who also has an indoor ring. They didn't use
lunge lines, however, she did very well managing their 20+ yr old pony Tony.
During the January time-frame, a new pony (also nearly 20 yrs old) was made
available to the farm.  My 10 yr old son Mike, also began riding.

They both rode the new pony and improved on their form/position.  Katie
progressed to learn her 1/2 seat and then to trotting over 4 poles on the new
pony.  To everyone's surprise, the new pony decided 2 weeks in a row, to toss
Katie off after successfully passing over the poles.  Katie was slow regaining
her confidence, as the pony was spooked by something in the ring.  We all
mutually agreed that it was time for Katie to go back to riding Tony.  Since
that time, she has been doing very well on Tony.  In the past month she has
once again began trotting over poles on Tony.

During last week's evening lesson, in an outdoor ring, Katie had Tony going
at a trot, practicing her 1/2 seat prior to using poles, when Tony decided it
was snacktime, stopped, put his head down for some grass, and Katie was on
the ground.  She fell right over his head, and was quite frightened to say the
least.  My son then got on Tony for his lesson, and sure enough, at the same
spot, at a walk, Tony tried to nibble again.  Mike too, went over the neck onto
the ground, but went smoothly, since he was at a walk.  Mike was unaffected
by the event, got back on and continued lesson.  Katie however, took coaxing
to get back on.  We took her to the indoor ring where she got back in the
saddle and once again picked up her trot.  Mike is successful keeping
Tony in line with a crop in hand.  Katie is not comfortable with the crop,
trying to hold the reins at the same time.  Tony does respond/stay in line,
knowing the crop is in hand.

After this long verbous story, my question is:  Being as young as Katie is and
giving the fact she doesn't have the strength required to pull a downed head
up or prevent the head from going down, how can this problem be worked?

Katie is persistant about riding, obviously loves it and does very well, but I
am concerned that one of these falls is going to injure more than her pride.
We have increased their lessons to twice a week as they are both picking up
the trot over poles and want to begin jumping.

I have thought about trying to lease a smaller pony, but I am not convinced
that would help, and I am concerned about the expense of lease and still
lessons for my son, as Tony is the right size for Mike.  Tony is a full size
pony 14hh or thereabouts.  Any thoughts and/or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!
Marcia
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1892.1I think you should be concernedAIMHI::DANIELSTue May 31 1994 15:1838
    They need an overcheck on the pony that is putting its head down.  It
    doesn't need to be very tight, but tight enough so that after it puts
    it head down lower than it needs to for trotting over the poles it
    feels it in the bit.
    
    Almost every horse or pony knows what the rider is capable or not
    capable of and small arms and short legs aren't usually effective at
    correcting a problem.  Also, if Katie isn't comfortable holding a crop
    with the reins, she isn't going to be comfortable giving the pony the
    good whack it deserves for doing this.   My former riding teacher had a
    lovely horse with this one and only bad habit - an overcheck was all it
    took.
    
    The other pony that tossed her off needs to be corrected by an adult
    and then ridden by a small child that is a very capable rider to
    prevent it from happening again - not someone who is taking lessons and
    hasn't progressed to higher things yet.  If the pony is too small for
    an adult to ride and correct - seconds after the incident, then she
    needs to be on a bigger pony or a horse.
    
    FWIW - None of my riding teachers in the past 20 years were ever wild
    about ponies with small kids.  One of my former and very good teachers
    told me that the closest she ever came to getting killed was with a
    pony, not a horse and she wouldn't use ponies in her program.  
                                
    The problem is, if the ponies are too small, the adult can't
    immediately get on and go over the jumps, poles, whatever to correct
    it.  The ponies know they have a kid on their back that can't make them
    mind.  The horse might know too, but if it also knows someone can
    instantly discipline it, that knowledge can make a difference.
    
    What does the instructor say/said after the pony tossed her off and the
    other one put his head down?
    
    There is a difference between falling off because your form is bad and
    having the horse toss you off.  I've flipped off over jumps on my old
    horse, not because he did anything, but I was learning and wasn't ready
    when he was.  But he never, ever tossed me off no matter what we did.
1892.2STUDIO::BIGELOWPAINTS; color your corralTue May 31 1994 16:3711
    My riding instructor uses horses for small children's lessons as well.
    She does have a few ponies around, but I'm not sure if they are in the
    lesson program or just broodmares/kick around ponies.
    
    Something else I've picked up over the years is that some instructors 
    teach in a pace that they are comfortable with, and not the student.  I
    started with one who went so slow, I got bored and quit.  My current
    instructor gets more students from other barns who were jumping before
    they were physically and mentally ready.  Perhaps your daughter needs
    more time working on the flat and equitation before she starts jumping.
    
1892.3instructor is firm/pony smarterAKOCOA::MARJOMAATue May 31 1994 22:0318
    
    The instructor got on the ponies in both cases of Katie getting tossed
    and following the head going down.  The instructor is firm with the ponies,
    but as has been mentioned, the ponies still know they have the
    advantage over the smaller child.
    
    Is it being suggested that Katie ride a horse off lead/lunge?
    
    As a result of the comments in this note, I asked Katie tonight about
    jumping and if it was something she felt ready to do.  Her response
    referred back to the progress that her brother has made, and she
    doesn't want to be 'slow'.  We'll try slowing her advancement down to
    her pace and see if that helps as well.
    
    At what point in time does it make sense for children to have their own
    horse?  Both Mike and Katie want their own, but are not yet at the age
    that they can care for one entirely (which is OK, cuz I love them
    too!).
1892.4GIve it a try.STUDIO::BIGELOWPAINTS; color your corralWed Jun 01 1994 10:0319
    All my instructor's young students are responsible for everything horse
    and tack related on lesson day......even if it takes hours, which for 
    some kids it does!  
    
    I don't think she keeps them on the lunge line too long because she wants
    the kid to figure everything out.  I've watched her spend the entire
    lesson (� hour for the younger ones) walking beside the horse talking
    the child through learning to steer.  The horses look drunk, but in a
    few weeks these kids are doing real well at a walk and trot!
    
    I think she bases each lesson plan on each individual and makes
    judgement calls based upon them.  I can't say enough good things about
    her because she's help me alot, and I watch a lot of her lessons, and
    there is a large group that shows, and all her kids are in the top
    ribbons.
    
    Try leasing or � leasing a horse at the barn this summer for your kids
    to see if they really like it, I think you'd be suprised at how much
    responsibility they'd accept.
1892.5My 2 centsAIMHI::DANIELSWed Jun 01 1994 10:1069
    I never rode on a lead/lunge till I got to be an adult, so I can't
    really answer that one about Katie.  I don't think she's too young to
    ride off the lead/lunge, but it is clear that she needs a horse or pony
    that won't take advantage of her.  
    
    I take some of my lessons now on the lunge to learn to balance better
    off my legs and body not of of my hands.  I find it helps me to muscle
    up better.  
    
    On having their own horses - Personally, I'm not sure any child is
    ever *entirely* capable of taking care of one of their own.  I really
    do think that is too much to ask.  I got my first horse when I was 12
    (after several years of lesson and a summer at a great riding camp).  I
    certainly knew a lot more than my dad on the finer points, but my
    parents really felt I needed one of them in the barn to keep an eye out
    for me when I was bringing the horse in, feeding, etc.
    
    For example, we had running water in our barn, but we had a shut off
    valve and a drain back for when it was cold so the pipes wouldn't
    freeze.  That first year I felt I was really old enough to take care of
    it - well, I missed it one night (dad always double checked it, but
    didn't come down that night) and the pipes broke.  My dad had to haul 
    water for me for the rest of the winter.
    
    I guess what I'm trying to say is, kids don't know all the implications
    in different actions, nor should they be forced to shoulder what are
    adult responsibilities. 
    
    Generally, I was fine taking care of my horse until something went
    wrong.  Once, I did lock up the grain but the horse got out of his
    stall during the night, broke the grain bin and was hogging it down.  I
    "knew" he would colic, but I really *needed* dad to help me get the
    horse away from the grain (try little arms pulling a horse away from
    it really wants - can't be done), and I really *needed* dad to call the
    vet and keep my horse walking till the vet came. 
    
    I kept my old horse till he died 3 years ago.  Most of the time I was
    very good about feeding, cleaning, etc.  But sometimes I wanted to do
    kid stuff too.  As long as "kid stuff" didn't become a priority (which
    it didn't) my parents weren't resentful of the times they needed to
    take of the horse.
    
    If you are willing to put time into the horses with your kids, then it
    will probably go well.  If you are going to feel resentful when they
    don't want to feed and clean one night, or get distracted by kids
    stuff, then it won't go well.
    
    This sort of discussion leads me into one of my pet peeves with people
    (I'm *not* flaming at you at all!).  They buy a small child a pet (dog,
    cat) to "teach" responsibility, when consistent, day in day out, year
    in year out, consistentacy and responsbility are not really trade marks
    of children.  Then the parents get resentful over why their kids aren't
    responsible, etc. But usually the pet suffers, because the parents
    didn't really want it in the first place.
    
    So, if you like horses and want to ride, get a nice horse that you can
    enjoy primarily and encourage the kids, just don't expect them to
    always take the lead with everything.  You may be pleasantly surprised
    with how much they do like taking care of it, if it doesn't become this
    incredible forced burden on them.
    
    You and your children might benefit from a riding camp.  They have them
    for one or two weeks now for adults and children.  An inhouse camp
    would teach you and awful lot about taking care of a horse and what is
    required.  You would probably have a great time with your kids at one. 
    The Yankee Pedlar advertises them.  Even if you can't find the time to
    go, your kids would benefit from different instruction and different
    horses.  You would also get to measure how interested they really are
    in the whole thing.
1892.6STUDIO::BIGELOWPAINTS; color your corralWed Jun 01 1994 14:592
    Good advice Tina!   I never thought of the kid and responsibility thing
    in that way.
1892.7Katie "Tossed in the Towel"AKOCOA::MARJOMAAThu Jun 23 1994 10:3716
    Thank you all for your feedback! 
    
    Katie has tossed in the towel, saying she doesn't want to ride anymore. 
    When I asked why, her only reason, although a very important one, was
    she is too afraid of falling off again.  I could tell by her answer
    that it was a hard decision for her to reach, but I certainly can
    understand.
    
    Can anyone give me the name(s) of instructors who work with young
    riders, show the patience and enthusiasm needed to help them over these
    inevitable hurdles? We live in Fitchburg and I like the lesson to be within
    a 1/2-3/4 hour ride.  We need evening lessons.
    
    I can be reached by DTN: 244-6637  or vaxmail: AKOCOA::MARJOMAA