Conference noted::equitation

    Hi,
    
    	I have seen sizing 'Arab' in the Stateline catalog - look
    in the halter section.  Also, how close is 'Cob' to 'Arab'
    sizes?
    
    - Janice

    Louisa,
    
        Our 2 15hand Morgans wear Cob bridles.  What is too tight on your
    horse's Cob bridle?  We have had to have some cavassons made smaller in 
    the noseband for our horses, so I assume the same might be true for 
    Arabians.  The only problem I've had with Cob bridles is sometimes the 
    browband isn't long enough.  So I'll put a different browband one.  The
    cheeks, throatlatch, etc. fit fine.
    
        I have never heard of an Arab sized English bridle, just the Cob
    size.
    
    						Jan

    
    I've checked stateline.  The bridels/halters for Arab's are not
    considered a hunter type/dressage type...or they were very ugly.  :-)
    
    What doesn't fit?  lets see..the brow band (but I got a new one
    but it does not match the briddle) the nose band (which I can't
    find a proper fitting nose band..only fancy show nose bands or
    western lookign nose bands)
    
    The lenght seem okay...but I want a matching headstall/noseband/
    & brow band. I just want a matching Arab bridle...I dont think
    this is to much to ask for.  Mabye I should go into the
    Arab harness business.  :-)
    
    Lou

    Lou,
    
    Like Jan said, we have similar problems fitting Morgans. Cob size
    browbands are too small. Cob size nosebands are too big. 
    
    We've done 2 different things that worked and produced matching
    bridles.
    
    Some tack shops/catalogs will "customize" a bridle. On one bridle I
    bought Jan as a present, I ordered it from the Dover catalog. I ordered
    a Cob size but asked them to substitute a horse size browband. For the
    noseband, I asked them to provide one that would tighten down to what
    the mare's muzzle measured. That worked pretty well and they didn't
    charge me any extra. 'Course, they ain't cheap in the first place. But,
    theyir quality is usually a little better than the "El Cheapo"
    places too. Paul's Harness Shop in Colorado is another good place
    that's easy to work with on these kind of things. They make some of
    their own stuff so it's easy for them. LaSalle's used to be that way
    too but I haven't bought anything from them in over 10 years which
    makes it ancient history.
    
    The other thing you could do is order a custom bridle to fit your horse
    *exactly*. We did that for our "winter"(read plastic or biothane) bridles. 
    The standard size ones didn't fit worth hooey. The tack shop said they
    can order the bridles made to any dimensions for the same price as the
    standard models. So, that's what we did. Went home, took measurements
    and got a great fitting bridle for about $50. The plastic is brown
    so it looks decent from a distance of 5' or more. Oh, the $50 didn't
    include reins but lots of bridles don't come with reins these days.
    
    You could order a custom leather bridle too. There's several places
    that can do that if you can afford it.
    
    I looked under the TACK_FITTING keyword and found some related topics that
    might help(I didn't read them so no promises ;-):
    
     313     It's cob size now, but...
     502     Nylon Bridles
     865     Arab size halters?
    1182     Bridle Fitting (English)
    
    john

    
    
    I have black biothane (dressage style) from Parry Tack in NY.  They
    are usually at the Equine Expo.  They custom make the biothane bridles.
    I think their quality is much better than those seen in some of the
    local tack shops.  Most folks have commented on it, and have only 
    been suprised that they are not leather.
    
    I've seen them advertised in the Pedlar or Journal too, but I try and
    find a phone number.
    
    Also Joe Hemple in Gilmaton Iron Works NH sells custom Biothane tack
    and harnesses (Amish made).  He specializes in Fjords, but he can
    probably help too.  He advewrtises regularly in the Journal.
    
    Good luck....it is real tough getting a regualr or cob bridle
    to fit a Fjord.
    

    Hi Lou!
    
    Get yourself a Schneider's (backorder is our middle name) Tack Shop
    catalogue.  They cater to Arabian and Quarter Horse owners and will 
    have everything you need, at varying prices.  
    
    But even better then Schneiders is Victor Custom Tack in Arizona.
    I'll get the phone number and you can call them for a catalog.  Their
    stuff is beautiful and the prices are very good.  (for instance, a
    work bridle from them is 25.00 for the headstall...the same as tack
    shops around here and nicer leather.)  You'll drool over the pictures.
    I think it's a very small company, even though they have a large booth
    at the Nationals every year, and they are just the nicest people to
    deal with.  This past year we had to have some customizing done to
    Back Bey's driving harness (not purchased from Victor).  We called
    to see if they'd do it, they said sure, and turned it around in about
    a week.
    
    The other thing you can do is wait until the show season starts and go
    to one of the tack shops who come out to one of the Arabian shows. 
    
    If I don't get you Victor's number in a couple of days, bug me!
    
    gwen
    

    
    Thank you all!  Gwen, I'll be waiting for the # w/ baited breath!
    
    :-)

    Well, after I ran off at the keyboard about how wonderful Victor
    is, I checked the catalogue and, crud, they don't have any hunter
    tack.  All they have is western (the MOST gorgeous stuff) and
    saddleseat.  
    
    I bought Bey a new show bridle from them last year.  If you want to
    look at it to see if you could modify it, you're welcome.  They DO
    have braided and laced reins, two widths, because a lot of us weiner
    saddleseat people use one for a snaffle rein.  I have a 1/2" braided
    rein...you'll want one!
    
    gwen
    

    I don't know whether this is a practical option for you or not but...
    
    We recently came across a German master saddler who is now
    working in Canada and the US. It's called Scheelse Saddlery Services.
    Here's the addresses and phone number for both offices:
    
    	185 Elm Street,
    	Buffalo NY 14203
    	1-800-225-2242
    
    	13452 Kennedy Road
    	R.R. #4
    	Stouffville, Ontario, Canada L4A 7X5
    	905-888-4646
    	905-888-4645(Fax number)
    
    They make custom bridles, halters, saddles, etc. They also sell other 
    brands of tack. They do repairs and, maybe most important, they will do 
    modifications to make what you *have* fit your horse.
    
    I haven't done business with these folks or seen any of their bridles
    so this isn't really a recommendation. Just something you may want to 
    look into.
    
    Their custom snaffle bridles cost $375(US) which seemed high to me so I
    checked at local tack shops. The tack shops around here get $275 to 
    $375 for a snaffle bridle. So, $375 isn't *way* out of line for a bridle 
    with reins but it is the high end of the range. Schleese's price list
    shows a non-custom snaffle for $280(US) which is about the same as the
    cheapest bridles I saw locally. So, it sounds like they have a
    realistic price list.
    
    The options on their custom bridles include:
    	Browband style: flat, raised, fancy, underpadded
    	Noseband style:	various cavessons, drop, figure 8, modified
    	rein type:	braided, laced, notched, plain, rubber, webbed
    	leather:	Canadian, English, Swiss or German in various
    			widths and colors
    
    Hope that helps or at least gives you some idea what custom leather
    bridles cost.
    
    John

    
    Thanks John!  I did find a person (gary severson) who can custom
    a tack store bought bridel to fit my horse.  I will try him 1st
    and if that does not work out, I will try Scheelse Saddery.  I 
    found a bridle I love for $100.00 and his price to custom it, was
    $20.00!!!!!!  I'll let you know how it works out.
    
    Lou

    John,
    
    I've heard of Jochen Schleese through a woman on Equine-L (an internet
    mailing list on horses).  She has raved about the work he's done for
    her - he recently made a custom bridle for her horse's 10th birthday.
    
    Janet
    
    

    
    well, it's been over 1yr!  and I still have not found a bridle for my
    Polish Arab - UGH!!!!!!  I can't belive no one in the world makes a
    normal English/Dressage bridle for my horse.  
    
    I have checked the web every day, I have sent for brouchers, I have
    Jane at Tripple Crown Tack shope on and endless search = NO LUCK!
    
    This is just crazy.  Yes, I can have one custom made for more money
    then the queen of England has - but I dont want to spend over $400 for
    a simple black bridle that I will use on an everyday basis.
    
    I think I will try and take some kind of leather making class and make
    my own at this rate - I'll get it faster!
    
    UGH!!!!!
    
    Louisa (thanks I needed that)

    What about asking other arab owners? or looking in arab magaziness?
    
    In the Horse industry dir. I pulled a couple listings you might try
    for suggestions:
    
    Arabian horse registry of Amer.  303-450-4748 (in Colorado)
    Arabian Sport horse Assn. 804-986-4486 (Virginia)
    Intern. Arabian horse Assn. (half and anglos) 303-450-4770 (Col)
    Intern. Arabian Horse Reg. of North amer. 315-662-3662 (NY)
    
    I would think that any of these places would be able to point you in 
    the right direction.  I'll bet there's certain mail order places
    they buy from which cater to Arabs.  I've seen lots of arab stuff in 
    the more western oriented junk mail that I get, one had a ton of arab 
    stuff, I'll try to find it.
    
    Sharon
    

I got my arab a cob-size black bridle with a drop noseband and white piping that
looks very much like the German dressage bridles you see everywhere. I needed to
add 1 hole the throat latch or nose band (I forget which). From Triple Crown in
West Boylston, MA 5 years ago for about $75.00.  They were so popular, I'd be
surprised if they're not still made. A friend of mine has a similar bridle in
cob size for her t-bred. Don't know where she got hers or what she paid, but I
doubt its custom.

    
    I have tried every cob size and none of them fit my horse.  I have a
    cob on now and if he wears it for only 5min - he has marks dug into the
    side of his face and  it takes days for it to recover.
    
    I feel so mean putting the thing on - but I have no choice.
    
    Jane from Tripple Crown even lets me take home all dif kinds of bridles
    to try them on.  Everytime she gets in new brand she lets me know.
    
    Just like our clothes - not all bridles are made the same size.  All
    horse sizes vary and so do the cobs.  Even if you buy the same brand
    name bridle the sizes can vary an inch or even two - I sometimes take 
    home 2 of the same brand to try them on.
    
    I got close the other day.  I brought home a new brand from California,
    I really liked the leather - and the horse size looked very small to
    me,so Jane let me take it home - well --- it fit, but if it stretches a
    tad (like leather likes to do) it wont fit anymore - but I could at
    least get a few months out of it.
    
    So I told Jane to order me one in BLACK - she did.  Well it came in,
    [[[[[[[[[[[[[[BUT]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] the black one did not fit!  I can't
    fasten the noseband at all (way to small).
    
    So we can keep returning and returning - but we'll never get the same
    size.  and I know I could get a larger noseband - BUT, I want the
    bridle to match! and I don't want to spend 100.00 for a mismatched
    bridle.
    
    UGH!
    
    Lou

    You might just have one altered a bit, Jennifer Safron (632-2917) does
    excellent work.  She won't steal your pocketbook either!
    
    She's in Westminister (Mon-Fri 12-5, Closed Wed).
    
    Sharon

    
    Try Niemyers in Des Moines.  I don't have their 800 number. 
    
    But call 1-800-555-1212.  Ask for Niemyers and/or Tanglewood Saddlery
    in Des Moines.  Helen has a wide variety of stuff for Arabians in 
    particular. 
    
    Mary Jo 
    

    
    I just called infomation and there is no such place (for either name)
    in Des Moines, Iowa.
    
    or maybe they don't have an 800 # ?
    
    as for Jen Safron, I know her well.  She can't alter my bridle because
    you'd have to add alot of leather (4inches) to the nose band and it 
    would not be very strong.
    
    Louisa

  I worked with Pelham Saddlery to get Widge a bridle.  Though she takes a 
  horse size, I'm one of those annoying picky people! ;-)  I wanted

	 flat brown with brown padding and brown stitching
	 cavesson nose band  (not flash!)

  They ordered a Kensington Finesse bridle.  Unfortunately, the full size
  nose band was WAY too big... and the cob was way too small.  They (Pelham)
  had the full size noseband adjusted to fit Widge -- considering the padding
  goes all the way around the noseband and the elaborate buckle/keepers on it,
  adjusting it was no small feat.  

  Whomever adjusted it did a great job!  I couldn't tell until I examined the
  inside of the noseband.  
  
					-Caroline  

    Louisa,
    Try Schneiders at 800-365-1311.  They sell Arab and QH tack and
    may have something.
    
    Did you try Victor Custom Tack (I don't have the number here) in
    Scottsdale, AZ?  Last I knew all he had was a hunt bridle but he
    does do custom work and his prices are very reasonable.
    
    gwen
    

    
    Hi Gwen,
    
    Schneiders only carries cob and cobs don't fit (nose bands way to
    small and the brow bands to) I got one from them last yr just to see - 
    but sure enought it don't fit.  They only carry Arab bridles in Western 
    or facny silver type arab show - no normal arab bridles or dressage 
    arabs bridles
    
    I would love to try Victor Custom Tack, but their is no such place
    according to information in Scottsdale, AZ
    
    You guys have been super to me!  THANKYOU ALL!  but I've been searching
    for a bridle for 4yrs and and they don't make em'...yet anyway.
    
    I wish I had the $ to have one made, but I live check to check as most
    of us do - I just make enought to afford my horse and go to a few
    shows.  When I save up some $ - something happens (need a furnace, need
    a roof, need new siding on the house, etc...)  I just can't see
    spending $400 on a bridle, but I've only had one estimate done so far.  
    
    I may call around to some leather shoe repair stores and ask them if
    they could make me one.
    
    
    Lou

    
    The local number for Tanglewood in Des Moines is 515-223-6585. 
    
    It sounds like you need something that would tend to fit a National 
    Show Horse type of horse.  
    
    I have purchased such equipment from Tanglewood and company in 
    years past. 
    

    I guess I'm puzzled, I thought Arabs had tiny muzzles and the noseband
    would be too big, oh well.
    What if you get a larger bridle where the nose band and browband fit,
    and have Jennifer shorten the headstall (should be easier, it's just
    a flat piece)
    
    My last suggestion, I promise!
    Sharon

    
    Polish Arabs are dif then Egyption Arabs.  Polish Arabs have almost the
    same size nose and brow of a horse (just a tad smaller) but they length
    of their head is very short.
    
    I'll call Tanglewood and I'll let you know
    
    Louisa

    
    I just talked to Tanglewood and they have Arab size dressage bridles. 
    They are going to send me some info on them.  
    
    Here is some info on Tanglewood from a friend
    
    Tangelwood Saddlery Shop (in my file) and found that the business is
    discontinued & some of the assets were bought by Equine Supply Ltd
    which is also known as Nymeyer's Equine Supply (West Des Moines, IA)
    phone (515) 223-6585.         

    Hi Lou,
    
    Actually, your horse is proportioned, in my opinion, more like a
    Crabbett horse.  And, if I remember his pedigree correctly, that's
    what his dam is.  Crabbett horses tend to have broader foreheads,
    beautiful big eyes, short heads and slightly "square" muzzles.
    
    gwen
    
    
    

    >beautiful big eyes, short heads and slightly "square" muzzles.
    
    	sounds just like him!  I even think the Arab Bridle will not fit. 
    I have a feeling that the nose band and brow band will still be to
    small - but that's what they make returns for!
    
    Bikini manufactures got the pitcher (finaly) we can buy dif tops and
    bottoms of our Bikinis - why wont bridle makers let us mix cob and
    horse bridles until we get the size we want?  :-)
    
    Lou 

    Lou,
    
    I'm confused. The other year, you said you bought a tack shop bridle and 
    had a local guy custom it to fit. Why can't you do the same thing? Or 
    didn't that work out?
    
    Anyway, you *can* buy bridle parts separately. Lots of tack shops sell
    "repair" or "replacement" parts for bridles that they carry. What we've
    done for everyday bridles is buy full size crown pieces , cheeks, and
    browband. Add on a cob size noseband and voila a custom bridle for
    cheap! ;-) That was for our big guy. For the mares, we just buy cob bridles
    and matching horse size browbands. Maybe you could buy "parts" and get
    cob sized crown piece and cheeks but full size browbands and nosebands?
    Tack shops/catalogs that carry the black & white "dressage" bridles
    often carry repair parts for 'em.
    
    If taht doesn't work, maybe you could get your friend at the tack shop
    to special order a cob bridle w/ full size browbands and nosebands. I
    bet the manufacturers wouldn't care about mixing & matching the parts.
    They gotta make both sizes anyway!

    
    I called the guy who makes the bridles and he was WAY to expensive!  I
    could never afford a custom birdle from him.  But I should start to
    look for other people who are in the business.
    
    yes, shopes sell "repair" bridles, but I have been unable to find a
    bridle that is "the same leather and the same look"  I have one pieced
    together now (part is black, part is brown, part is rolled leather,part
    is flat leather) I don't want that anymore - I would like a nice
    looking all one type of leather bridle from the same maker!
    
    I have not been able to find ANY manufacture who will let me piece
    together a cob and horse bridle.  They want me to buy both a cob and 
    horse and put it together myself.  If I do that, I might as well spend
    the $400 for the custom one.
    
    I will keep my fingers crossed that Tanglewood has one that fits.
    
    Lou

    Lou,
    
    You didn't asnwer the question I was trying to ask. So, I'll try it
    another way..... In .10, you said: "I did find a person (gary severson) 
    who can custom a tack store bought bridel to fit my horse. ... I found 
    a bridle I love for $100.00 and his price to custom it, was $20.00!!!!!!  
    I'll let you know how it works out."
    
    I was asking A) How did it work out and B) If it worked, why can't you
    buy and Horse size and get him to adjust it to fit?
    
    John

    
    It was $20 for the Gary to come to your place - but to custom it was a
    dif' story :-(  
    
    

    Louisa,
    
    Your note is so frustating to read - mixing and matching bridles
    is very common practise over here (in the UK).  
    My pony mare is can rarely be fitted 'off the peg' so even her 
    best show bridle is a mix of pieces and sizes and you would never 
    know.
    
    If you really get desperate I'll happily arrange for a catalogue
    to be sent to you from one of the companies that do overseas
    mail-order.  
    
    Judy

    Lou,
    
    I found a number for Victor:  602-971-8100.  
    
    As of two years ago, when I saw all their stuff at the Nationals,
    they had a beautiful hunt bridle that, I guess, you could turn into
    a dressage bridle by changing the browband and caveson(?).
    
    Call Victor.  And be prepared.  I think the phone is also their
    personal phone number.  So they just answer the phone Hello, not
    Victor Custom Tack.  (Also, I found this phone number in a fairly
    old horse magazine...I hope it's the right one).  But they are
    very very nice people and extremely easy to work with. 
    
    Maybe if you got the browband and caveson you want, Victor (that's
    really his name) could make a bridle to match.  Ask him.  Two years
    ago I sent him a driving harness that I didn't purchase from him
    and he custom fit it to my horse -- made couple of adjustments that
    required cutting and stitching -- only charged me around $50.00
    and turned it around in less than a week.  (I just remembered that
    as I sit here typing)  
    
    I have work tack from Victor, Back Bey's show bridle is from him,
    and my cutback show saddle is from him.  (Even if you can't get a
    bridle to show in, ask for a catalog and get a work bridle and
    work caveson...you'll love it.)
    
    let me know how you do,
    
    gwen
    
    

    
    FWIW:  I FOUND THE PERFECT BRIDLE!
    
    I took back the horse bridle that was way to small to Tripple Crown
    this weekend.  Jane went and got the brown horse bridle that fit
    perfectly and we measured it up.  The headband needed to be 36" end to
    end (most horse's are 39") the nose band needed to be 19" (standard
    size) the brow band needed to be 20" (extra large).
    
    Then I looked up and their was the  most beautiful horse/dressage
    bridle (in black w/brass buckles and brass everything) infact I had
    just got done falling in love w/one at the last NEDA show I was at - I
    picked it up and we measured it for the heck of it - AND IT WAS A
    PERFECT MATCH!
    
    It was way to much $ then I wanted to spend - but IT FIT!
    
    Sultan wore it on Sunday and I think it brought him good luck! We took
    2nd place in  our Training Level 2 test!