Conference noted::equitation

    
    
    Lou, 
    
    I certainly feel for you.  I can also empathize with your situation,
    but nowhere near the extent that your are dealing with now.  I think
    we've all been frustrated at one time, or another when we fall into a
    rut with our beasts and have trouble climbing back out.  From your
    note, though, it sounds like you've fallen into an abys.
    
    Have you tried to give him some time off?  I'm not sure if it would do 
    any good, but sometimes horses go sour and a little vacation works
    wonders.  Does he freak out every time you trailer him now?  If not,
    maybe you could trailer him to lessons at a different barn and then the 
    next day trailer him with a friend somewhere for a trail ride just so 
    he can equate trailering with something other than a show.  Try
    braiding him in his stall, or outside with someone holding him (even if
    it's only 1 braid/day) and then throw him out in the pasture.  Maybe 
    just taking him out of his normal routine and doing things differently
    will keep him from anticipating these things?  
    
    The situation might look pretty bad today, but things usually have a 
    way of working themselves out.  You never know.  Tomorrow is a new day.
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Simone
          

    
    Simone, thanks for the helping words.  Your right I'm in an abys.
    My horse doesn't freek out IN the trailer at all he's walks in fine
    the problem is when I take him out of the trailer.. he knows he's at
    a show.  I know it sounds weird, but it's true.
    
    I am giving him some time off.  and if I get him to not get sick
    when he gets out of the trailer, then I will NEVER take him to a show
    again.  I atleast hope to get him to pace events.  He really enjoys
    trail evets.  I'm hoping once he knows he dosent have to go into a
    show ring, he will stop this.
    
    But, I think I'm just fooling my self.  I have to try to be realistic
    no matter how much I want him.
    
    thanks :-)

Hi Lou,

When you take him to shows, does he get a stall with other stable
mates around him?  If he's making himself so sick, are you even
able to ride him once you get there, and if so does his condition
seem to improve?  What do you think is making him most frightened?
Is it the comotion of so many strange horses... maybe he's not
used to the warmup situation at shows where strange horses are
passing you in every possible direction.  A number of dressage
horses I've known are fine until they enter the ring.  Then
they seem to realize all eyes are on them, and they can't
take the pressure.  

My thought is that perhaps you could take him to some 3 or 4
day shows and just let him hang out with his other
show pals (next door) and maybe just school him (whether
leading, lunging or riding) around the grounds.  I've known
some horses to get extremely tense at shows and really
the only way their owners got through the problem was to
expose them more.  As you already pointed out, I don't think
you can trick him into thinking he's being braided to
go on a trail ride with a friend all the time.  

If taking him to numerous shows isn't helping, then
perhaps he needs a full time show-buddy.  I've heard
of people towing a stablemate along.  This can cause
other problems, like excessive whinnying and all.
But sometimes too, they hear their pal whinnying to
them from the stable and it makes them feel great.
They feel so secure that their pal is miserable without
them, that sometimes they behave beautifully.

Your horse is not the only one who experiences show
nerves. I've seen people bring horses to 'school'
at shows countless times.  They are usually youngsters, 
but not always.  

Good luck,

Melinda

    Did he ever go to shows without this problem in the past?? Was
    he shown before you got him? Maybe he had a bad experience at a show
    that he remembers.
    
    What about his training at home? Is he trained alone in a ring, so that
    when you put him in a crowded class he is frightened by so many other
    horses working in such close proximity? (or do you show strictly
    dressage where he is alone in the ring?).
    
    I can understand your frustration.....and even more so, your reluctance
    to sell him.  My Standardbred mare came to me in a fluke sort-of way,
    and I orginally had hoped to retrain her to the point of doing small
    hunter shows. While we do about one a year, fairly successfully, she
    has never like showing, and is much much happier as an endurance horse....
    something I knew very little about and to that point really didn't have
    much interest in.  But someone talked me into trying a judged pleasure
    ride, we went, pinned 5th out of 45 entries, and I went home with one
    bouncing, exuberant horse who had obviously thoroughly enjoyed herself.
    Unlike you, I never considered selling her (that's just not something I
    could do), but I did develop an interest in more distance riding. She
    had worked very hard as a harness racer for 6 years, and I was told she
    never like it and was difficult manage, so I felt I owed it to her to
    allow her to spend the rest of her life doing what she enjoys rather
    than continuing to pressure her to show. Now we do frequent distance
    rides (both competitive and non), and a yearly show that she has
    mellowed into behaving at enough to not embarrass me (I also have a 
    Thoroughbred who is a joy to show, although I have less and less
    interest now).
    
    

Hello Louisa,

I do know of a horse that has this problem, although maybe even worse. 
Unfortunately, the owner had to stop showing him because the episodes were
so very traumatic to him. Basically the horse was "tying up" due to stress.
I'd suggest having blood work done, preferably during or just after one
of these episodes is happening. I'd definitely talk to a vet; this doesn't
sound like a behavioural problem, except that its stress-induced.

It may be that extra-supplementation (electrolytes, baking soda, etc.)
before a show will help keep his body chemistry in balance, but a vet
will help decide what to do to help prevent these attacks, if they are
physiological in nature.

I hope all works out and good luck!

Linda

    
    Yes, he does stress himself out so much that he gets "tied-up" he
    physically can not do shows do to the potential danger to himself.
    
    He never showed before I got him.  I started him out very slowly.
    maybe 1 show every other month (on a good trailering month 2 shows)
    most were hunter pace events and 2 to 3 day sleep overs.  He did
    wonderfully!  He was so easy going and could care less about what
    was going on... on hunter pace I would have lots of horses passing
    us and he could care less about it. I could allwasy tie him to the
    trailer w/ hay and he was fine.
    
    When I started to do shows, I could tell he didn't like it as much as
    pace events.  He would *hate* his 1st class (due to being seprated from
    his stablemate) but the next class he would be fine and we were
    *allwasy* in the ribbons!  by *hate* I mean, he would just want to
    leave the ring and have a little fit becsue he couldn't .. that I
    expected.. but he never got sick like this.. ever!  
    
    He's not by nature a scared horse!  On the roads a speeding motocycles
    can go by and he could care less.. ears dont even go back.. he just
    plods along.
    
    This is want lead to the problem:
    
    4 sundays ago, I went to a hunter show.  It was a very big show, lots
    of horses.  My 1st class was terrible, Sultan wanted to leave the ring
    to be w/ Poco.  we finnished that class and had to wait outside the
    ring for the jumping to get over.  We just hung outside (sitting on
    him) and he was as happy as anything (I was very proud of him) we were
    in the middle of about 20 horses and we just stood there and waited our
    turn.  We finnished our next class and everything was great.  I went
    home w/ a smile on my face and prod of Sultan.  Not once did he even
    get close to sick (calm all day)
    
    He had 2 weeks off, then we went to another show (big) and as soon as
    we got off the trailer.. he started to get sick!  You couldn't even see
    the show ring from the parking lot.. he just knew were he was and he
    was just soo sick.
    
    What happend between the two shows, we will never know! :-(
    
    I gave him a few more weeks off and I tried it agin and I got the
    same reaction.. so sick, I wanted to kill him and put him out of his
    pain.
    
    Louisa

    Was your horse by himself at the shows he started this "stress
    attack" reaction?  He could just be having "separation anxiety",
    since from your notes, it sounds like he has never gone to a
    *show* alone....
    
    There are a few oral non-prescription type -medicines- that
    help relieve stress.  "B-calm" is one.  It comes in a syringe 
    like horse wormer, and you give it on an empty stomach, about 
    2 hours before show time.  Another that I can't remember the 
    name of is a natural herb substance that also has a calming
    effect, used the same way.  
    
    L- 

    Was the ride a lot longer or was he loaded onto a different side of the
    trailer than before when he first started getting sick. (just thinking 
    about how I get carsick when I have to sit in a backseat, I could get
    sick just thinking about it.)
    Did you change towing vehicles?  Some vehicles have terrible smells
    from the catalitic converters.
    
    It sounds like you right though, he's just dreading the whole thing.
    
    Sharon

    Is when he goes to a show the only time he is ever separated from his
    stablemate? You said that now you cannot even load him on the trailer
    in the yard without him getting stressed out and showing symptoms of
    tying up? Maybe he has started associating leaving home with being
    separated from his buddy....just how herd-bound is he? Do you ride away
    from home alone without any problem?...I guess my question is could it
    be a case of extreme seperation anxiety?? This could develop at any
    time, my friend has two horses kept at home together whom she could
    seperate pretty easily for about a year, then they suddenly decided
    enough was enough, now she has a very hard time taking either one out
    alone.
    
    Still, it does sound like a physical thing...you said you vet offered
    little hope....have you tried getting a second opinion, blood work,
    etc?
    
    Good luck, and keep us posted....you obviously care very much about
    this horse, I really hope you find a way to work this out and keep
    him, he sounds very sweet!
    

    
    At the show were he got this attack he was not seprated from Poco.
    He didn't even care were Poco was.  When we saw that he didn't care
    where Poco was, I had my friend go ahead and leave and do her class.
    Sultan didn't care at all that he left.  He was to busy being sick.
    
    I know he hates leaving Poco, but not to this extent.  
    
    When Poco came back to us, it still didn't change his attitude.  He
    kept getting sicker and sicker until we took him home.. once home is
    was %100 better.
    
    My vet has tried B-clam on a horse I know.  I know the owner and the
    horse and B-calm did'nt work on this horse, I dont think it will work
    on mine, since mine is much more on-edge then the other horse, but
    I will give it a try.. what do I have to loose?
    
    I just don't know if I want to do all the 'mind-games' with my horse.
    I feel he has worn me out and won this mental tug-of-war.  I feel like
    I have no more to offer him (I know I sound like Im talking about a
    person) but this is the only way I can describe how he has made me
    feel....I just feel let down and that hurts..I have given him 110% of
    me, not one day has gone by in 2yrs that I have not seen him and ridden
    him and taken care of him.. he is what make me get up in the morning
    and this is how he pays me back?
    
    I am ready to move my riding forward and I have this horse  that is
    holding me back.  If there was a cut and dry answer (do this and it
    WILL work) I would do it and keep him.. but there is no %100 cure for
    this.. I need to move forward... GAWD!  I feel like I'm talking about
    a D-I-V-O-R-C-E!  I guess this is what if feels like when you have
    Irreconsiable(sp) differences.
    
    Could you see me and Sultan in court now, we'd be fighting over who
    gets custody of the 250 hay bails in my loft :-)
    
    well, I feel better now, at least I know what I'm feeling now,,, I do
    feel like I need a DIVORCE from my horse.  Mybe putting a lable on it
    will help me deal with this much better.
    
    no one likes or wants a divorce.  

    He may just not be able to show.  I was reading in a gaited magazine of
    a wonderful show horse who started acting up, not the same as yours but
    acting up in their own way and when they got her home, they found out
    she had ulcers from showing.  This is a world class horse and for
    whatever reason, showing was not her bag.  Because she is such high
    quality, they can use her for breeding and trail riding (this is in
    CA), so it can happen.  Stress does funny things to people and to
    animals.

    Well, if it's a divorce...have you thought about his side of it and what he
    wants? ;-) Seriously, maybe he's giving all he can. 
    
    Is there some reason you can't move your riding forward *without* going
    to shows? Personally, I've never learned anything at a show. Dressage
    shows are a) time consuming b) boring as something we aren't allowed to
    say in notes conferences, c) pretty useless as a learning tool and
    d) as expensive as they are boring. And I'm a *long* time dressage rider!
    Actually, my late teacher (who had been an Olympic competitor and an "I"
    rated dressage judge) felt much the same way. He always said that he
    wasn't really able to help anybody when judging because there
    wasn't enough time to make useful comments.
    
    You say he seemed happy enough at hunter paces & trail rides. Why not
    use him in a way that he's happy? There's no rule that says you have to
    show. ('Cept up in Canada where I think you have to show at a certain 
    level in order to get certified as a teacher but...)
    
    If he were my horse, I'd get him checked out thoroughly by the vet. I
    might even intentionally induce one of these episodes while the vet was
    there. Second opinions or referrals if necessary. If there's something 
    physically wrong, I'd fix it (if possible). If there weren't something 
    wrong or it was unfixable, I'd use him the way he likes. If it wasn't
    something I liked to do, I'd find him a home with somebody who likes to
    do those things.
    
    I have known horses who went "lame" at a show but were sound when they
    got back home. The owners had to stop showing them because they
    couldn't tell real lameness from "Oh! I'm at a show" lameness.
    
    I've also known an endurance horse who was pushed too far too soon and 
    flipped out mentally. He was rehabbed by a dressage rider. I happened 
    to be at the GMHA show grounds in Woodstock VT one time when she took 
    him over there to school. It just happened to be a day when there was 
    a competitive trail ride. My friend was afraid the horse would freak out 
    again when he saw what was going on...but he didn't.
    
    Good luck
    John

    I tend to agree with .12 . But if you still want to do shows
    try a few things. Trailer to a friends house and have a fun 
    trail ride. Go to a show arena when no body is there. Braid
    in the middle of a pasture without tying him up to anything.
    Go to an area where a show is going to be held, park blocks away
    and just walk by it. Don't stop. Just be real casual.Do some 
    different events. Go run a barrel race. Teach him pole bending,
    give him something different to think about.Out here we go
    and use different neighbors arena's. 
    
    Good luck,
    		Carl

    
    yes # 12 makes a good point as to what my horses side is.  that
    is why it's a divorice with irrconsibable(sp) differances.
    
    At this point, I am not sure if he will even trailer to trail events. I
    guess the next 3 weeks will tell, I do plan on taking him to familur
    places over the next 3 weeks and go on a trail rides .. absolutly NO 
    ring work and NO braiding.
    
    I will never let him show again or sell him to anyone who wants to
    show.  But I do want to show!  I love to show!  I get alot out of it.
    so we have grown in different directions and we must go our seperate
    ways.
    
    I know him very well, and I know he will not even like trail events.
    he just wants to stay home.  If this is the case, I will have a big
    problem on my hands.. He will be un-sellable!  I love him, but I
    guess not enough to ride in the pasture the rest of our lives.
    
    Your support has been wonderful..thank you all!  
    
    I will take him this Sunday for a 10min drive and bring him to his very
    favorite trail and I will ride him home from there,to show him he
    does not have to perform.  I don't think I will use B-calm yet or any
    other drug, I will evaulate him after ride, to see if I  should use it
    for the next test-drive.  
    
    I will let you know what happens, if all goes well, he will get off the
    trailer...relize were he is and be calm...and we will have a wonderful
    ride.  keep your fingers crossed.
    
      

    
    Hmmm.........something you said and someone else said brought
    the following to mind....
    
    We all know we spoil our horses rotten, and that they can wrap
    us around their little hoof. (8
    
    Maybe 7 days a week 365 days a year with Sultan is too much time
    spent with each other.  Maybe he knows if he "acts up/sick", that
    you will give in to what he wants.  Have you thought about a break
    from each other?  Maybe trade horses with a friend you trust,
    preferably someone who is not a "soft touch" (; and won't let him
    get away with any antics.  A change of pace is always good, and maybe
    a little breather from each other might help relieve any unconscious
    tension that you could be transmitting to each other....
    
    L-

    For what it's worth, I don't think you will find that a horse that 
    cannot be shown or competed is 'unsellable'. Many many people have
    backyard horses that never get in trailers and go anywhere, just
    ride casually on trails around home, and are happy, loved, and well
    cared for.  Just think of how many homes you drive by on country
    roads with horse and no trailer in sight.  Competition is not important
    to millions of horse owners, Sultan sounds like a nice horse with
    a good attitude when he's not feeling pressured, Im sure you could
    find him a great home with someone who merely wants a friend and
    companion.
    
    You seem very sure of yourself that competition is something *you*
    need, and very sure that it is *not* something Sultan is up to. If
    after your attempt at trailering to a trail ride this weekend, you 
    still feel he won't come around to being able to compete even at
    endurance rides, don't feel bad about selling him, do the kindest
    thing you can for him and allow him to live a life that he will enjoy.
    There are a lot of horses out there that you can find for yourself to
    compete with, that will be more suited to your needs.
     

Along the lines of .15...


     My horse definitely appeared to 'appreciate' me more after spending
     time (handling/ridden) with a trusted friend (& accomplished rider).
     Sultan may appreciate being 'at camp' with someone else for a period
     of time (2 wks?  month?) and delighted to return to you afterwards.  

	Please get a second opinion and investigate his tying up... rule
     out physical problems (as mentioned previously: ulcers).   I know it's
     hard not to take Sultan's reaction to showing personally, but he may
     not be able to help it.

			Good luck!

				-Caroline

    
    Lynn and LCoburn.. great points!  and Very wise! I see your point
    on the "un-sellable" issue.  I'm sure I will find a wonderful hom
    for him w/someone who does not want to show.  I guess I never thought
    about it.  I've allways loved to compete and all my friends compete, I
    guess I had a one track mind that if a horse wansn't being used then
    why is he here/he can't be happy... but you opened my eyes.. of course
    he can be happy as long as he's doing what he wants to do.. just like
    I will be happy doing what I want to do.
    
    I guess I can look at the last 2yrs as a learning experience and not a 
    waste of time.  You have all helped me not to blame him, and understand
    him a little better.
    
    You've helped me put some things is retospect.  I think I need to look
    inside deep and determine how much to I love him and how much I want to
    show.  Can I live w/out it?  or can I live without him?
    
    What ever I decide, I will do what is the best for him.  He will
    defently go above my needs.
    
    Louisa

    
    I know this horse, and Louisa. I have ridden him off and on for the
    last two years, and have used him in lessons for additional training.
    He looks beautiful!! It's been a struggle to get him to this point
    because he is too smart for his own good, but he is starting to move
    beautifully in the dressage ring!
    
    He has the sweetest personality and is very nice in hand and wouldn't
    do a thing to hurt anyone, and I feel, is a real trooper because he has
    advance so far and is moving the way he should.
    
    I know I will miss him if he goes. I have ridden him at one show,
    his first class he hates, but then he gets into it. He even did a
    jumping class at the show we had him at and we were all amazed at how
    good he ways!! My second class with him he did beautifully and we took
    4th place, not bad after the first class mishaps.
    
    I was bummed when she called on Sunday to say that this had happened
    again at a show, he just seems to have decided "No sir, I don't like
    it". 
    
    Louisa is a wonderful owner and a great rider and she loves to do
    shows, as does her barn partner. It would be a shame for them not to do
    a few a year.
    
    It's not like Sultan is going every weekend to a show, so I can't
    imagine that he has gone sour on them.
    
    Mary
    

    
    Update:
    
    I've trailered Sultan to a few familur places.  Both times he was
    totaly normal.  He never once sweated, lathered, or got the runs.
    He got off the trailer both times like it was just another day.
    
    I can't figure this out!  I will attempt to take him to a pace
    event on the 17th.  If he is fine, I will be faced with a delima.
    
    I will be affraid he will pull this stunt again, when the mood hits
    him...I wish there was a grantee if he would or not.  I am being
    pushed to sell him by a few diffrent angles.  They all make a good
    point...but deep down I dont want to sell him.
    
    I found a perfect home for him...and that scares me.
    
    I guess I will try him on the 17th and make my decision then.
    
    lou

    A thought strikes me that many owners who show their horses put all
    kinds of "Show Sheen" types of products on their horses to make them
    look better before a show. Could your horse be having an allergic
    reaction to this kind of gunk? Since shows are the only time when the
    stuff tends to get used the correlation is there.

    
    
    Re: -1
    
    Funny...I was just thinking that myself.  I have a friend who has a
    horse who has allergies and is very sensitive to changes in feed,
    weather, and stress in general.  She coliced after a stressful trailer
    ride once and gets the runs if her feed is changed, or if the weather
    changes suddenly.  An allergy combined with stress might be a
    contributing factor.
    
    
    Are there tests for horse allergies, like human allergy tests?  Anyone
    out there ever get their horse tested for allergies?
    
    Simone
    
    

    Yes, you can test your horse for allergies.  They draw the blood, and
    it takes about 10 days to get the results back.  I just had my horse
    done, because he would pick up a cough in the spring as if he were
    allergic to pollen, but it would stay all summer long, until November
    or so.  We found out that he is allergic mostly to bird feathers!  So
    as soon as the barn swallows come into the barn, and until they left in
    the fall, he was having troubles.  I started him on a sequence of
    shots, and he is much better.  I would recommend getting the allergy
    test done for anyone who is having trouble with coughing, or the type
    of problem you're having.
    
    Sue

    
    I dont use show sheen or any other products like that.  I didn't even
    have bug spray on him that day (flys are gone thank goodness)
    
    I took him for another ride in the trailer to a familuar place and
    he was a gain FINE!  I have a hunter/parce this Sunday.. his will be
    my deciding factor... 
    
    Louisa

    How did Sultan do at the Pace Event?