Conference noted::equitation

    
    
    Mary,
    
    	The best way is to ride something you know is bomb proof.. 
    
    	That they are easy chairs with four legs.. 
    
    	If you would like come over you can ride lady (we can go for 
    	trail ride).. 
    
    Donna

    
    Thanks Donna!!! I would like that!
    
    I think it is more my confidence. I can ride about anything it seems.
    This horse is very well trained. Plus, there was alot of stuff going on
    in the ring that night, people jumping other horses, people taking
    jumps down and I was new on her.
    
    I think my confidence is more bruised than my butt! :>)
    
    Mary
    

There have been some excellent discussions in this
notesfile about fear and regaining confidence.
There doesn't seem to a specific enough keyword to 
make them easy to find.  I'll see if I can identify
the notes...

Topics 1018, 1220, and 1596 discuss rebuilding 
rider confidence.  These are currently associated 
with such extremely general keywords as EQUITATION, 
INJURIES, INSTRUCTION, and CONDITIONING.

Moderator, can we have a new keyword?
I would suggest RIDER_FEAR.

    
    I agree w/ .1  get on something you know you can trust.  Start off slow
    and re-build your self confidence.  I have seen Mary ride and she is
    a natural, it would be a sahme for you not to continue.  I to know of
    a nice pinto gelding you can ride.
    
    Lou

    
    
    Thanks Lou! Louisa started me back into riding on her old gelding Joe,
    he is the first one I fell off of! But I got back on, and I have
    advanced to riding even more complicated horses.
    
    I guess I should get my butt back into the saddle! I was so happy to
    where I had gotten and don't want to loose that!
    
    Mary
    

    Get back in the saddle ASAP.  My ex-Appy tried to toss me twice. I
    managed to stay glued to the saddle (how, I'm not sure). I put that
    beast up for sale when he successfully threw my husband.  Anyway, I was
    very fearful to get on anything. Confidence at its lowest. I rode a
    friends horse to help build confidence while I looked for a new horse
    to purchase.  This mare was supposed to be the best bomb-proof horse 
    around, she got pissed at another horse and ran away with me on her.  
    I finally found a Buckskin from a Cow Ranch in Colorado, he is great
    and helped build the confidence.  Maybe the Private lesson will help,
    it couldn't hurt.
    

Well, if they started a contest for the biggest ninny, I'd probably
win hands down.  Fear and I are constant companions. 

I find that what helps me is starting with something that I know I can
do.  Like walking.  I have my own horse and have had several things
happen that scared me silly.  I wasn't even sure if I wanted to get
back on any horse.  I would just tell myself that it didn't matter
what happened to scare me, I'd had many other situations that made
me proud.  I would talk to myself non-stop about anything other than
being scared of my horse.  I usually would ask someone to be in the
ring with me or schedule a lesson.  Maybe a lesson on the lunge line.
Whatever it took to get me back in the saddle.  Sometimes it
takes days to get me over the hump and back to being relaxed with
my mount.  Sometimes its an hour.

Mostly it depends on what *I* tell myself.  

Whatever you do, maximize your comfort.  If you want more than one
person there with you, ask.  Most folks know just how you feel and
are glad to help you.  If you want to ride another horse, there's no
sin in that either.  You can come back to the problem horse another
day.  Or not at all.  

Good luck to you!  I'll be thinking positively for you!

Jan-who's-been-there-quite-a-bit.

    
    	I'm a wimp, too! My horse got me out on the trail this summer,
    	we had just started to canter up a hill when he did a major 
    	duck and spin and I was LAUNCHED off to the side! Somehow I 
    	got a hold of his mane and the reins and almost landed on my
    	feet, but all I remember is seeing his head go down and to the
    	right and the rock that was right below me... It took a couple
    	of months before I would canter on the trail again. At the time,
    	I had no choice but to get right back on him or I was going to
    	have a LONG walk home, but I was so pissed I think I would have
    	gotten on him no matter what. 
    
    	Whenever he pulls anything like this it scares the heck out of me	
    	because it makes you realize how strong he is and how little control 
    	you really do have over them. 
    
    	My riding partner was great about it, he was content to walk-trot
    	the trails for a couple of months. It's best to have friends and
    	instructors who will let you be afraid and help you work around it.
    	It also helps to understand exactly what happened and why. Just
    	take it slow, you will know when you are ready to ride again.
    
    	Sherry
      

    I think the old rule to 'always get back on' is really true.  I've gone
    off many times and never had a problem when I got back on.  Once, quite
    a few years ago I was just messing around, bareback, trying some silly
    balancing things and I fell off.  It wasn't the horses fault, it was no
    big deal.  Since it was getting dark and I was done anyway, I didn't
    bother to get back on.  Well, my subconscious must have been working
    double time because the next day when I got on I started shaking so bad
    I could hardly ride. It really seemed so stupid I wasn't nervous or
    anything but it took quite a while for the shaking to go away. Needless
    to say, I always get back on now.
    Sharon

    I can't offer first hand experience about this particular fear because 
    when I fall off I'm usually mad at myself or embarrased. I don't think 
    I've ever been afraid to get back on BUT that's a combination of 1)being 
    too dumb to realize what happened(I've never been hurt in a fall... OK, a 
    sprained finger but that doesn't count) 2) the fall was usually my own 
    fault and I'm CONVINCED I can do better and 3) I've never had a horse 
    INTENTIONALLY try to dump me. Some have dumped me when they spooked and 
    went sideways while I followed the laws of physics and continued forward.
    Now, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying horses haven't scared me. They
    have. It's just that falling off hasn't been a problem(yet).
    
    If a horse intentionally dumped me and it frightened me, I doubt that I
    would ever get on THAT horse again. If a horse frightened me whnen it 
    spooked and dumped me, I'd probably ride something else until my
    confidence(read BRUISED EGO) recovered and then challenge myself to
    not only ride the horse but deal with it's spooks.
    
    Falling off is something each of us has to learn to deal with both
    logically(like I'm doing) and psychologically(like you're doing!) because 
    we're not gonna stay up there all the time! I remember being told when I 
    was a kid that you can't consider yourself a rider until you've fallen at 
    least 3 times.
    
    I think the point of that old saying is simply that riders fall off
    at regular intervals and one can't acquire riding experience without
    falling off. Of course, the length of the time interval between falls
    varys with the type riding(e.g. those who jump fall more frequently
    than those who don't, 3-day riders probably fall more than showjumpers, 
    etc) but riders do fall off.
    

    
    	John, the version I heard is `you're not a GOOD rider until
    	you've fallen off the SAME horse 3 times'. Well, I'm finally
    	a good rider, haha... In my case, as with some of the other
    	people in here, I couldn't NOT get back on the same horse 
    	no matter how frightened I was because it was MY horse and I 
    	was going to have to get back on him sooner or later. And it
    	would be a disservice to both of us if I didn't get back on.
    	
    	That's not to say that there isn't a point where you should
    	reconsider continued ownership of a difficult horse - my first
    	horse was a menace and was sold within three months after I
    	bought him. But I know Ebony and I know in each of the three
    	instances that I've fallen/been thrown exactly why he did what 
    	he did and why I came off. If I couldn't figure out what the 
    	problem was and how to correct it then I would have to consider
    	him a problem animal.
    
    	Sherry
    

    Sherry,
    
    Just so there's no misunderstanding. I was saying that I doubt that I
    would have the courage to get back on a horse that had willfully dumped
    and frightened/injured me. I wasn't recommending that as a course of
    action for anybody, just expressing doubts about the extent of my own
    nerve.
    
    john

    
    
    How about having a lesson on the longe-line?  This way you could ride
    the same horse you fell off of, yet you'd have someone there and you
    wouldn't have to worry about contol.  I've found that most of the times
    I've fallen off have been due to the fact that I've been unbalanced, or
    stiff.  One classic problem that many people experience is to tighten
    the thigh muscles.  This happens instinctively when you get nervous and
    you clamp your thighs against the horse to stay on/keep from bouncing
    around.  What actually happens is that when you clamp with your thighs,
    you can't absorb shock at the pelvis and you end up popping yourself
    right out of the saddle.  
    
    When you ride on the longe-line, you can work on your position and
    balance with/without stirrups/reins, etc.  It's also easier to
    concentrate on your position when you don't have to worry about
    steering.  The more relaxed you are, the easier it is to stay in the
    saddle...no matter where your horse goes.  And don't forget...even the
    most experienced of riders fall off, too.
    
    I would get back on the horse you fell off of and try to ride as many
    different horses as you can (bomb proof ones at first).  The more
    horses you ride, the quicker you become at figuring out what makes them
    tick and more accustom to being able to react and avoid a potential
    fall.
    
    P.S. Isn't it funny how sometimes when you fall off it seem like you're
    moving in slow motion?
    
    Good luck and don't forget to have FUN!
    
    /Simone                                  

Gosh, in my childhood, I was told by local "horse
people" that you weren't a good rider until 
you'd LOST COUNT of your falls and injuries!
I don't think they knew what they were doing!
(This was in rural Iowa.)

If a thrown rider can't get back on immediately,
it's not a disaster.  The very first time I ever
fell off, (at age 10), I broke my collarbone.  It
happened the day before school started and I didn't 
ride again until spring.

I certainly wouldn't want to see anybody coerced
or browbeaten into getting back on if they were
not ready just because somebody believed it was a
*rule.*  (I have met a lot of horse people who 
really are this rigid in attitude.)

re: a few replies back, the person who waited 
overnight to get back on and was shaky -
Don't necessarily blame waiting - you might have 
been just as shaky the night before!

    
    
    .15   I was on a longe-line when it happened because I was
    	  working a horse I had never before.
    
    Mary
    

    When I was a kid, I read in "jumping SImplified", by Margaret Cable
    Self, a confidence-builder for those learning to jump.  Starting at a
    halt, and then at a walk, learn how to vault off your horse and land on
    your feet.  (It's actually quite easy)  She then recommends trying this
    at a trot and even at a slow canter.  (Boy, nobody would dare recommend
    such a thing today!).  Anyway, I did all this and it was a great
    confidence builder, because I knew what to do if a horse threw me, and
    the whole idea of hitting the ground wasn't scary anymore, because I
    sort of automatically would land on my feet.
    
    -ellie  (Who's been thrown and fallen off more times than she can
    remember.   Hmmmmmm.......)

    Re .18's reference to Margaret Cable Self
    
    When I lived in New England, I knew a woman who had actually been in
    Margaret Cable Self's riding troop(New Canaan Mounted Troop or
    something like that I think). This woman told me that the kids in the
    troop had to learn several other procedures besides the "emergency 
    dismount" that ellie mentioned. 
    
    One of the things was to unsaddle while riding AT A GALLOP! My friend 
    actually demonstrated this to me one time too so I know she wasn't 
    feeding me a line of BS! She picked up a gallop. She reached down and 
    removed first one stirrup from the saddle and dropped it; then she 
    removed the other.  Next,she unbuckled the girth and dropped it. Finally, 
    she used her calves to support herself in a 2-point seat and pulled the 
    saddle out from under herself and dropped it!
    
    Although I've done it myself, I wouldn't say that landing on your feet is 
    a real confidence builder! I know one woman who did just that when she
    fell off. She broke both ankles. One of them had to be fused surgically
    because it wouldn't heal.
    John

    Wow, you were on the lunge-line when you fell off.  I really have
    a tone of empathy for you.  Thats usually my backup safety valve.
    I feel alot more secure with the lunge line mostly because there's
    someone else there with me, talking me through it.  
    
    Could you possibly try to do something different with this horse?
    Like have your instructor change what you would normally do
    in a lesson.  I had some luck when I was scared of the canter
    my last year in Colorado just doing a warm up of walk and trot
    and then going straight onto jumping cross-rails.  Before
    I knew it I was cantering out of the fences and my fear had
    evaporated.
    
    I know that jumping might be a bit far to go when you're teeth
    are really chattering, but there's tons you can do just at
    the walk.  Like learning turns on the haunches or forehand.  Or
    you could do some groundwork with the horse yourself.  Its
    a great way to build trust when you can see that they respond
    to your voice commands or body language.
    
    Also, know that there is no shame in just not going back for
    more on this particular horse.  Unless its the only one you
    have available to ride, you might want to check out others.
    
    Hope it gets better for you!
    
    Jan
    

Because in lunge lessons the rider is frequently *not* holding the reins, and the
only point of control is a lunge line attached to a human many feet away, I
firmly believe that lunging is not necessarily a confidence builder. If the horse 
spooks, their head can go nowhere because someone is holding it on the circle, 
but their body has a tendency to whip around, providing an excellent opportunity
to be dumped. 

In the 5 years I've had my current horse, we've had serveral partings. Some
because he spooked, some because I became unseated while jumping.  One jumping
fall resulted in a 15 minute period of unconsciousness, and a (still to this day)
45 minute lapse in my memory.  Because this was *my* horse, and my *only*
horse, if I wanted to ride, this was the horse I had to ride.  When I got back 
on several days after the fall, I walked.  Period.  After a day or so of 
walking, I progressed to trotting.  I also lunged him before I got on to be sure
he had the initial ants out of his pants. When I worked up the courage for 
that first post-fall jump, I made sure the jump was small, that I had a neck 
strap, and that there was someone there watching.  Before I re-jumped the jump I 
fell over/after, I had my instructor jump it several times so Amos knew that
it would not eat him.  I still had my heart in my throat, and I don't think I
took an easy breath the rest of the lesson.

Confidence is not something that comes back overnight.  If you have the 
option of riding horses that are more solid citizens, I would do that until 
you feel ready to tackle the larger challenge. 

A little 20/20 hindsight: If you elect to get back on immediately, be ABSOLUTELY
SURE that you are physically and mentally able.  The fall that I mentioned 
above was the result of landing in the dirt, getting right back on and doing the 
exact same thing, without taking the time to properly evaluate my condition.

    re .21
    
    Yeah, I agree!  I feel more anxious on a lunge line than on my own.  I
    only let myself be longed on bomb-proof horses.  (And I don't have one
    of those.....). 
    
    -ellie

    I whole-heartedly agree. Lunge horses MUST be bomb-proof. It takes a
    very special kind of horse to be a good lunge horse. One of my teachers
    used to keep a horse that was nearly worthless off the lunge but she
    was a PERFECT lunge horse. She earned her keep in lunge lessons.

    
    
    RE:  a few back.  
    
    Yes.  Make sure you ARE physically able to get back on. 
    
    A few years ago I was taking a cross country lesson.  I came off and
    wacked my head pretty good (with the helmet).  I got back on, continued
    to jump a bunch more fences.  By the time I got back to the trailer
    I was really shaky.  Had to have a friend drive the trailer home. 
    
    Went to the hospital (3 hours after the wreck) and found I had a very 
    serious concussion.  I still am missing about 3 months worth of memory. 
    
    

 After reading this topic I have two comments.

 First, the base noter mentions that at the time of the fall 
 arena was busy with many other horses, including those that
 were jumping. I feel that it is inappropriate for the trainer
 to give lessons to a beginner (especially a longe lesson) in
 such conditions. Beginning riders should be trained in a quiet
 environment, as free from distractions as possible, until they
 are able to control (which means STEERING and STOPPING) the 
 horse well at all gaits, including how to stop a runaway horse. 

 At most barns, advanced riders are asked to refrain from riding
 while a rank beginner is in the ring. Advanced riders must 
 always yield to the lower level riders when riding in the same
 ring and it is courtesy never to ride at a faster gait than
 the lower level rider is doing at the time. When a high level
 rider must work in the ring with a beginner level rider, they
 may do the same simple things that the lower level rider is doing 
 and still do useful work by dropping stirrups or putting the horse 
 in a frame, or doing lateral work. In that way, the lower lever 
 rider is not intimidated and the higher level rider can still 
 achieve a significant goal. 

 Also, I feel that there is no such thing as a bombproof horse. 
 I have seen even the mildest mannered old troopers kick and 
 buck under the right circumstances. That said, the best horses 
 for giving longe lessons to a beginner are those that are quite 
 lazy. When given any chance, the ideal longe horse will *slow* 
 down, requiring the rider to practice using leg and seat aids 
 to create the required rhythm and impulsion. If the rider is 
 not capable of that, or the rider is working on other things, 
 then it is the longeur's duty is to keep the horse going at a 
 regular pace so that the rider can work on position and balance.

    
    Thanks for all the advice. I would not consider myself a beginner. I
    was in the process of moving into a more advanced level.
    
    I think the reason my instructor put me on the line was because I had
    never been on this particular horse and she felt I would feel more
    comfortable with getting the feel of Pira. She is a good horse. no one
    else has had a problem with her, so I am not sure what made her spook.
    
    I am going back tonight for a private lesson, a suggestion of my
    instructor to help me get my feel back.
    
    Wish me luck!
    
    Mary
    

   It is generally unsafe to do a longe lesson (and harder to 
   concentrate) in a busy environment regardless of riding level. 
   Altho I feel that longe lessons have some value I know of two
   instructors who will not give longe lessons because they feel
   that they are not safe and that it's more important for the
   rider to learn to be in control. 

   I am no longer considered a beginner either, but I would not 
   want to ride a longe lesson in a small arena with several other 
   horses cantering by and jumping and people dismantling fences
   around me. It would be much safer and more productive to do 
   the longe lesson in a quieter environment.

Kiirja, 

I'd never heard of the ring etiquette you referred to where
the advanced rider yields to the lower level rider and
even goes so far as to work only the gaits and movements
of the other rider.  I was taught an etiquette where all
levels can function in the same arena, and unless someone's
having obvious trouble managing their horse, everyone
can work at their level.

If anyone want to talk about this more, we should continue
this in note 1362, where the topic is ring manners.

Melinda

   This is from my perspective as an A/A hunter rider, your mileage may vary!

   I work in a very small indoor arena where, at any time, there may be up
   to five horses working simultaneously, ranging from beginning riders to 
   advanced riders on very green broke horses. It is absolutely necesary for 
   us to be very aware of the skill levels of the riders around us, as well 
   as the reactions of the horses they are riding. Where I ride a well 
   schooled horse, I often yield to more advanced riders on very green or 
   fractious horses. (We tend to get a lot of horses from the track who are 
   very frightened by a horse coming toward them...they are used to other 
   horses always running in the same direction they are.) A fractious or 
   nervous green horse can be easily upset by the sight of another horse 
   cantering, especially if it comes close. Sometimes riders longe their 
   fresh horses in the center of the arena and we try to go in the same 
   direction so that the longed horse does not feel threatened. When any 
   horse appears to be out of control in any way we all stop what we are 
   doing immediately. 

   As the horses become more familiar with each other, or if we happen to 
   have a collection of stable horses with experienced riders in the arena,
   then we ride at will, calling our routes out ("diagonal!", "circle!",
   "Cross rail!" ) so that other riders can plan their routes and avoid 
   collisions. In some cases I can canter with lower level rider in the ring,
   provided they are confident and in control, and there is plenty of room
   available to work in without disturbing them. But as a general rule, I 
   try to do whatever they are doing, (but harder! ;*} ).

   In the real world of horse showing, a horse must be able to work in a 
   tight schooling area with a dozen other horses going in every gait and 
   direction imaginable. That is the goal. But safety, and control, are 
   paramount and a *slow* introduction to the complexities of warm up areas 
   is necessary to avoid a bad experience that can ruin a horse's confidence 
   forever (not to mention potential injuries).

   And one more thing, those who are in a lesson have priority over those who
   are 'just hacking'.
 

    I'd never run into the fear problem until I got seriously injured in a
    fall (horse fell on me).  Until then, I'd always gotten right back on. 
    But when I wasn't able to get back on for several months (in fact, was 
    barely able to get up again, and only after some time had passed) then
    fear had plenty of time to kick in.  My suggestion is to take all the
    time you need to rebuild your confidence in yourself and trust in your
    horse.  Preferably start off with a horse you know and trust and only
    do what you feel comfortable doing.  If that means only walking in a
    ring for a while, fine.  Ignore the comments and looks of children (and
    that includes the children wearing adult bodies ;-) and only do what
    *you* feel ready to do.

    
    
    Well, I got back on and felt like I had never fallen off! Course, I was
    on a different horse.
    
    Someday I'll get back on Pira!
    
    Mary
    

    I suspect once you get back on Pira, you'll find yourself back to
    normal real fast!  It's getting over that first hump...

    Oooh....like that name...Pira

    The brakes failed....premature pad wear.  The back straight at Pocono
    raceway gets real short at 130mph.  I went into the chicane anyway. 
    Woke up in the hospital with severe concussion, mangled right wrist,
    broken collar bone and some back injury.  And a philosophical point of
    view that death probably wouldn't hurt, its the surviving that is
    painful.  With that, why sweat the small stuff.  This is grand prix
    motorcycle racing.
    
    Now a fall from horse at 25mph is not too scary.  Makes me angry more
    than scared.  Angry that I got lulled into that sense of security that
    didn't let me react in time to stay on.  I am not a good rider, but
    anything goes.
    
    /bo