Conference noted::equitation

    There are theft-proof saddle racks available for english saddles, but
    they are designed to be mounted on a wall.  Maybe they could be adapted
    for use in a tack box; I'm not sure.  But you can see a picture of them
    in the Dover Saddlery catalog -- and in other catalogs most likely.  
    
    What about some sort of alarm?  I know there are electronic devices
    consisting of two parts, and when part 1 gets separated from part 2 by
    more than a few feet, an alarm is sounded.  Only works if someone is
    there to hear it, of course.  I saw these in a Sharper Image catalog
    recently.  (I get a LOT of junk mail...) 
    
    You might also check out other conferences -- serena::home_work might
    have information about security.

    Linda,
    
    	I live in Orange Co. and had the same type of problem happen about
    five years ago.  We found out it was the stable help that were doing
    the thefts.  We were advised by the police to etch our SS#'s or drivers
    licence numbers on the tack as you have done.
    
    Questions:
    
    Are you at a public barn, or someones property?
    Are all the tack boxes in a central tack room or are they by the stalls
    of each horse?
    Were the locks broken off the boxes that were stolen from?
    
    If the alarm is armed after 10pm then you are right, someone is doing
    this before it is armed.  Are there people around during that time that
    might have noticed someone who doesn't belong there?
    
    The locking saddle racks sound like the best idea.  I have always kept
    my tack in a cage type of tack box.  I have had things dissappear if I
    left it open or left something out.  Even if you chain you saddle, if
    they had the means to cut or break the locks, they will be able to cut
    the one on the saddle.
    
    Last but not least, you could keep a killer mouse in your box.  I have
    seen quite a few that fight back.
    
    Virginia

    Another theft occurred again on Tuesday night.  This time it was easy for 
    the robbers.  They used a tool and pried the clasp away from the wood, the 
    screws came out very easy.  That's three thefts in four weeks.
    
    The man whose tack box was broken into, said that the tack box was very old 
    and he new it wasn't 100% secure, but he also didn't know about the other 
    thefts.  He is on the other side of the parking lot from my horse.  A small 
    parking lot divides the stables.  On one side of the lot is the Racing Barn 
    stable and 35 stalls for boarders and a turn out arena. The racing barn is 
    currently empty, they are expected to move back in within three weeks.  On 
    the large side, (where I am located) is three turn out arenas (they are 
    not large at all), approximately 100 stalls, wash rack area, shoeing area, 
    the owners two turnout areas and the owners' house.  All the thefts have 
    occurred close to the parking lot, far away from the owners house.  We 
    have been trying to pass the word for people to be aware of strangers but 
    its very hard with so many people and so many varied times of their visits 
    to the stables.
    
    Our theory for the thefts was that we were being watched and that person 
    was seeing the saddles being used and where they went, but that theory 
    went out the window with this last theft.  Ted has only been driving his 
    horse, he hasn't had the saddle out in the open for months.  They stole 
    his English saddle, bridle, and his practice driving gear.  Luckily his 
    show gear was at home.  We cannot figure out why they are picking the 
    stalls they are picking.  Some of the tack boxes are unlocked and have 
    saddles in them.  
    
    To answer your questions Virginia,  the tack boxes are in the stall with 
    the horses.  The person has to either climb over the pipe stall, 6' high 
    or climb between the pipes.  None of the locks on the stalls have been 
    busted open.  My fear is that a horse may be turned loose and try to 
    escape the property.  I have expressed my concerns to the stable manager 
    and have been reassured that the alarms are in working order, they are not 
    audible within the stall areas but can be heard in the house, and the 
    gates that let people drive in and out will be closed after 10pm.  Where 
    in Orange County are you?  The stable is in Cerritos.
    
    Thanks everyone for letting me vent my frustrations.  Hopefully I will 
    continue to be lucky with my saddle and maybe come up with some ideas to 
    nab these jerks.

    Hi everyone,
    
    Sorry I haven't communicated lately but business is busy.  Also sorry this 
    is so long winded but once I get going its hard to stop me.  
    
    Since August there have been eleven break-ins.  The latest was December 27.
    On Sunday night they broke into four tack sheds.  One was a repeat 
    break-in.  One of the four was built by my husband.  The tack shed 
    belonged to a friend.  Jim had used a sheet of plywood for the door, with 
    reinforced 2x4's around the inside edges and across the middle.  The lock 
    was a sliding steel lock with a giant padlock that Brenda herself had 
    purchased.  Jim used three inch bolts with washers and some kind of nuts 
    to hold the steel lock onto the 2x4.  Because the door is so large it did
    start to warp a bit when the moist weather started.  It warped on the 
    bottom.  It looks as if the thief started at the bottom of the door with 
    a crow bar and tried to bust the door, but with the 2x4 reinforcements 
    they couldn't budge it. 
    
    So then, they attacked the sliding lock.  They actual pulled the three inch
    bolts through the 2x4 to get the lock off.  They have been taking the 
    locks with them after the break-ins and this one wasn't any different, the 
    sliding bolt with the lock, and the nuts and bolts and the padlock are 
    gone.  Now the door has four holes where the bolts went and some missing 
    wood from under the lock. 
    
    Anyway, Jim has been riding one of Brenda's horses, so he had a vested 
    interest in her two western saddles not being stolen.  Only two weeks ago, 
    he took some heavy duty chains and chained the saddles to the tack shed 
    from the back of the shed using eye bolts.  He ran the chains through the 
    saddle rings for the stirrups.  There is one chain for each side of the 
    saddle and one padlock for each chain.  The two saddles were on saddle 
    stands that are mounted into the tack box above each other.  When Brenda 
    arrived on Monday to see what was missing, she found the top saddle 
    sitting slightly pulled forward.  We guess they got pissed off at the 
    saddles being chained and just left everything.  They didn't take anything 
    of her's.  Score one for us.  But, another boarder wasn't so lucky.  They 
    broke into Jean's and took everything, Brushes, medicine, saddle, halters,
    everything.  I don't know why people were leaving saddles, I guess they 
    thought they couldn't get hit.  

    Jim wants to take some kind of piping and make my tack box look like Fort 
    Knox, but I have some hesitations.  I don't want this crazy person to take 
    any anger out on a horse and I don't leave anything important in my box.  
    The only things I leave are two halters, two lead lines, a bare-back pad, 
    a thin saddle blanket, a Bute bottle, and brushes and towels.  My saddle 
    and two bridles and saddle pads and new halter are at home.  I take them 
    down everytime I want to ride.  

    The speculation from some of us is that the person or persons doing the 
    stealing are usually near by.  I checked with another stable about two 
    miles away and they haven't had any problems.  Saturday was the only day 
    that both of Brenda's saddles were out in the open.  We are organizing a 
    Boarders meeting.  So that everyone can meet more than just their neighbors
    since we aren't always at the stables at the same time.  Possible one 
    person has seen a strange vehicle around in the AM's and another person 
    has seen the same vehicle in the PM's.  

    Hopefully the thief will attend the meeting and hear about the extra 
    precautions being taken and stop.  
    
    Thanks for listening, its so frustating.  We all would like to catch this
    person and have them dragged behind a horse.  That would be real fun.

    Has anyone seen any of the "hot" equipment?  When my parents house was
    robbed my father managed to buy back some of the stuff, then he knew
    who the thieves were (proving the case is a different story though).
    
    The stuff may turn up somewhere and could maybe be traced to the culprit. 
    I would look at auctions, in want advertizers, newspapers.
    Let people know your looking for a certain type of saddle or whatever.
    
    Vets, farriers and horse dentists would be good to talk to (I'm sure
    you might have anyway) they would know about similar robberies anywhere
    else even long distances away.
    
    Sharon

    Could the tack room be locked up and only the boarders have
    a key?
    
    Then you would know it it was an inside job.......(if it
    happens again)
    
    Or, maybe all get together and lease a video camera set-up and
    catch the culprits on film?

    The video camera set up is a great idea! 
    
    Or if it's too expensive, possibly taking turns at shifts or something
    with a Polaroid? That could be too time-demanding on many people
    though......
    
    Also keep an eye on any tack shops that sell used equipment, let them
    know about the thefts. Id be concerned for the safety of the horses
    themselves, I hope you are able to catch the culprit soon!
    

    Each boarder has their own tack box right inside the stall with the
    horse.  We went a month without any thefts and then two last week and
    four on 12/27.  We thought about a video camera but it would be exposed
    to the outside elements, (the last two thefts happended during rain),
    and be with the horses, not to say the least that it might get stolen.
    
    I have notifed some of the Feed stores that sell used gear.  Almost all
    of them require proof of original purchase from the seller. 
    Personally, my saddle has my Drivers License # and SS# etched into the 
    leather under the stirups.  
    
    The owners of the stables claim that the alarm sytem is working but the 
    outside audible is off because of complaints from residents about the 
    alarms.  I've said turn the audibles on and explain when the residents 
    call to complain. But the owner won't go for it.  The owner is afraid
    the city will shut the stables down and the owner has about 10 horses
    themselves.  One boarder claims to have arrived at the stables around 
    1am Christmas week and no one came to check who was breaking the alarm 
    beams, so as a result we have our doubts that the alarms are even turned 
    on.  The owner says that the economy is causing all the thefts everywhere. 
    Until someone steals something from them they won't do anything.
    

    	re -.1   It almost sounds like you should suspect the owners!
    

    The set up sounds a bit odd to me....you mean the thief is/are entering
    a stall with a horse in it, breaking into a locked box in the stall,
    exiting the stall with the loot, and closing the door behind, leaving
    the horse safe and sound? Obviously someone very familiar with horses,
    and with some concern for them if they are not being released from
    the stalls....and pretty confident of their own security if they are
    taking the time to enter individual stalls. Sounds like the thief is
    well aware that the alarms arent going off, or are being ignored if 
    they are. Id make it well known that the tack box in my individual
    horse's stall was completely empty and take the lock off so the thief 
    can discover that fact easily....simply because Id be awfully worried
    about the safety of my horse knowing that someone is entering his stall
    in a hurry. 
    
    Have the police made any efforts at fingerprinting, etc, or patroling
    in the area more frequently?
    
    

    I agree with one of the other noters and suspect the owners. What good
    is an alarm if its not being used.  Sounds pretty hoaky to me that the
    owners are more concerned about bothering the neighbors instead of
    worrying about the boarders property.  I also think that someone should
    set up a video camera somewhere also. Don't let the owners know that
    you are doing it.   Times are rough these days and if people have
    gotten away with it several times now they will continue to try.  I
    would think its time for the boarders to get together without the
    owners and set up some type of watch if a video camera isn't a
    solution.   Has the police been contacted?  Are they making any effort
    to drive by the barn more often to see if anything suspicious is going
    on?   Has the owners been victims of theft?  Even if they have, what 
    was the property that they had stolen worth?  Was it any way comparable
    with the worth of the other property stolen?  
    
    If worse comes to worse, the boarders may need to come up with an
    alternative method of storing there saddles and equipment.  Even if it
    meant carrying the stuff around in your car, at least you could be
    reasonably sure that it will be safe there.   
    
    Good luck and I hope you are able to find the thief/thieves.
    
    Sarah

    .10 is correct.  My tack box in inside "CJ's" stall.  My tack box is 6
    feet tall and 4 feet wide.  I have in the tack box, 2 halters and two
    lead lines, brushes.  My stall also has a chain and padlock on it.  The
    theives are climbing through the bars, breaking the clasps holding the
    padlocks and then passing everything back through the bars of the
    stall.  We feel is someone who is obviously not afraid of the horses. 
    The stables is approximately 1/2 mile long.  The entire stables has
    chain link fencing except where the parking lot is and in the front
    where the owners house is.  Someone has to either drive in, past the
    owners house, or walk in from the parking lot.  All the breakins have
    been close to the parking lot except one.  Someone had to drive in for
    that one.  I am organizing a Neighbor Watch program for the Stable, I
    have scheduled a Boarders meeting for 1/10/93.  So the boarders can get
    together and meet other boarders.  I think some of the boarders that
    come early in the am and some that come late at night may have seen the
    culprits.  Once we start getting boarders to write down the license #'s
    and vehicle descriptions and start comparing notes we may come up with
    at least the vehicle.  
    
    I talked with the owners myself, they said that the police said that it
    is happening all over the area and in different states.  I was told
    that the police said is most likely is a ring and that stuff from here
    is being sold in other states.   It was also explained to me that the
    probability of them stealing a horse was 99% slim.  Now hurting a horse
    is a different story.  If you think about how hard it can be to load
    your own beast and then think about how hard it is for a stranger, who
    is tense, to load someone elses beast.  
    
    My husband wants to reinforce my tack box with a metal pipe.  I would
    have to unlock something and slide this pipe across from infront of the
    door.  I really don't want it.  I don't want someone to get angry at
    not being able to get in and take it out on "CJ".  We think they might
    have hit Brenda's horse, he usually is very pushy to get into the tack
    shed and when she arrived after the breakin, he wouldn't come near her
    right away and then was extremely jumpy.  
    
    The owners haven't lost anything yet, but once the theifs came closer
    to the house then started closing the drive in gate earlier.  They
    have, this weekend, put up signs stating, BECAUSE OF THE CONTINUAL
    THEIVERY, PLEASE TAKE ALL YOUR TACK HOME.  DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING ON THE
    STABLE GROUNDS.  I wonder... if their insurance should have been
    covering all the losses because they hadn't notified the boarders by
    either signs or in writing.  Some boarders still didn't know as of 2
    weeks ago.  
    
    Thanks for letting me go on and on and on......  Linda
    
    

    Is this place so good that it's worth staying at?  Doesn't sound
    to me like an ideal place to board.....

    Certainly sounds like the thieves are going to an awful lot of trouble,
    this particular barn must hold some appeal to them for some reason,
    though.
    
    As an aside, IMO, a chain and padlock on the *stall* door, with the
    horse literally locked in the stall, is dangerous.....what will
    happen in case of fire or some such emergency where the horses need
    to be removed for their stalls in a hurry?  Will there be time for 
    the owners to find keys/turn combinations to get the horses out? 
    
    Im with -1 after the last few notes, what with theft and padlocked
    stall doors Id be so concerned about my horses safety.....
    
    Ill be interested to hear what come from your boarders meeting, good
    luck, I hope this gets solved soon for all concerned. 
    

    
    Linda,
    
    I'm very sorry to hear it is happening to you again.  The Idea of a
    slide bar  on your tack shed is a good idea.  I don't think they would
    get upset and hurt your horse.  They will just go to the next shed and
    leave yours alone.  The only way they would get anything out of hurting
    your horse would be if they knew you personally.
    You said you check with the stables down the way from you and they
    haven't had any problems?  What kind of set up is it?  Maybe there is
    something that deters the theives from hitting that place.  I would
    also find out what other stables have been hit in your area.  
    We haven't had any problems either and If I remember correctly, you
    aren't that far from me.  
    Personally, I would give up a few nights a week to sit on a roof and
    watch the place after dark.  Lord knows I have done that pleanty of
    times waiting for the mares to foal. :-))
    
    Just my view on things.
    
    Virginia
    

    1.  Depending on the supply & demand for stalls in your area
        if enough boarders start talking about leaving, you might
        get the owners attention.  One person is bitching, 10 at once
        is a management problem.

    2.  I hate to even bring this up, but I bet you could sue the
        owners of the barn for their lack of security.  People are
        sueing owners of motels if they are mugged, etc.
        
        Regardless of what you sign, there are all kind's of 'implied'
        relationships in a business contract and if there have been
        alot of burglaries which the owners ignore they might be
        liable.

    Of course if there is a long waiting list to get in there, find a place
    to move to first.

    Bill
        

    Not being involved with this, it is ok to disregard this opinion.  I
    talked this over with my wife Jane, last night.  After looking over all
    the notes here we beleive that this is an inside job.  The owners or
    someworking for the owners is the culprit.
    
    Someone is just too at ease to keep hitting this place and the
    reluctance to get involved is a major clue.  Time to move.
    
    /bob