Conference noted::equitation

	Do you know about the DEM? Meets at the Horgan Ice arena in
	Auburn, MA each week or every other week (I think I remember
	this correctly - it's been a while). This is the Mass Department
	of Environmental Management - the ones who keep state lands
	OPEN to hiking, riding, etc. I suggest you go see them and let
	your thoughts be known.

	They are pretty receptive to recreational use of state lands, but
	they MAY only have control over lands designated as parks. And
	my last information (about a year and a half ago) was that all
	park lands EXCEPT the beach at Walden pond, were in some part
	accessible on horseback - some trails were reserved for
	hikers only, but other trails in the same park were okayed for
	horses.

	Anyhow, I think it would be poetic justice to sic one bureaucratic
	group on another. Let them spend your money without you having to
	get involved in the litigation...

    Why is the MDC doing this??!!!  There's gotta be a reason.  Not that
    it's probably a good one, mind you.  But they must have some rhetoric
    they're using to back their actions.  The real reason is probably to
    make some person or group richer, but I'm sure they don't come right
    out and say that.  (Cynical?  Me???)  Anything about this in the
    MAssachusetts conference?
    
    -ellie  

    *Metropolitan* as in city as in Boston?  What right to they have to
    land outside their limits?  
    
    Emminent Domain is one of those laws that really burns my butt.  I
    wonder, sometimes, how many people lost their homes to "progress?"  Of
    course, it has such a long history it will be hard to get rid of.  It
    was what Europeans used to justify stealing this land from the natives
    a few hundred years ago.  Now we just use it to steal from each other.
    
    Mary

Well, the DEM does try to preserve, but as I see the way things work the MDC
has priority juristiction in that it too is trying to presever and create
a total non-polution area (not parks). The DEM can hardly disagree with that. 
The two organizations have similar goals, it's just that the MDC has authority 
over MA water supplies (primarily for Boston) The DEM, I believe, does not have 
authority to seize land for it's own use. The MDCs charter to aquire and
protect the watersupply includes land aquisition. (ie a very specific and focused
charter). The MDC is not doing anything legaly wrong. Morally, yes. Since it's
an "authority" and not "elected" it's above and beyond approach. Suggestions
and proposals to the MDC to my knowledge were off-handedly rejected with a
"we don't have to" attitude. There was a heated "discussion" in Sterling with
the head of the MDC and it's lawyers, this past week (which I was unable to 
attend) that by reports, demonstrated that the MDC has it's mind and political 
agenda set, and it has the money and clout and legal right to do what it pleases.

The issue is not so much the land aquisitions but the scheme behind them,
some land is not in the aquifer, some land being seized is being zoned 
"industrial" for later development. (figure that one out.) One piece of land 
(a point of major ire) is being seized so the MDC can tear down the existing 
farm, and build a million dollar "visitor/info center". Talk about pollution!

I am just curious if anyone-else has noticed any MDC aquisitions in their
neighborhood. From my perspective it's already a lost war. I am surveying
the country side. Others I know of are loosing land that has been in their 
family for generations. They are fighting tooth and nail, and loosing. In the 
end it seems they may not even get what money the MDC did offer due to 
protracted litigation, and financial drain for legal fees.

I unfortunatly am not well informed here, and reports I get indicate that 
the MDC is not particulary clear in laying out it's cards so alot of questions
go unanswered. There is land that MDC probably should have. But their rules
and enforcement just don't always make sense.

I ramble too much.

Ed

    I had no idea that the MDC scoffed up land.  What do they use the land
    for?  I remember a farm my husband used to hunt, gone -- taken by
    eminent domain.  WHY????
    
    

MDC aquires what land IT deems necassary to protect BOSTONS watersupply.
It owns hundreds of thousands of acres of land in MA, primarily in a 20 mile
wide swath from Quabban Reservoir to Boston.  I am told but unable to
yet conform that the MDC has been quietly buying much of the land in western MA
(you know that other area-code :-) on the otherside of the Conneticuit River.
The towns out there are so poor they can't protect the land via making it
"conservation land". So the MDC comes in with a few bucks and snarfs up
thousands of acres at "building 19" prices.

What does MDC DO with the land... nothing. It's to protect Bostons watersupply.
Eg no polution or development... No endandering the water-shed area.

Well... that remains to be seen.

For horse owners the MDC has it in their minds that horses polute the 
environment. So they are banned from ALL MDC property, even land that is
10 miles or more from any body of water! (for those readers outside of MA 
the MDC also has it's own private armed police force to enforce it's rules.
The MDC police have complete juristiction on it's lands, superceeding local
towns but not the state police.) MDC is very active in procecution of trespassers
with $1000 fines and/or jail with vehicle (if any involved) confiscation.
(I don't know what they do about horses... my guess it they just shoot them.)

A problem I've been informed of is that MDC land is not always posted.
You could be wandering down you favorite trail and it could cross MDC land for
a short distance, if you get caught, go directly to jail, do not collect $200.
Several riders I know, got the "heave-ho" off MDC land, (they didn't know it
was MDC land) but through the kindness of the officers weren't fined or 
arrested. (that time.)

The gist of the message for us in this notesfile is the MDC hates horses.

Ed

    Odd.  Aren't there MDC mounted police force horses?  I know there is or
    at least used to be a mounted police horse stable on Chickatawbut Road
    in the Blue Hills, and I'm pretty sure it was the MDC.  Course, the
    area in the Blue Hills isn't MDC land....
    
    -ellie

    Re: Ellie
    
    MDC does have a mounted unit, my friend Megan is a MDC police officer
    and loves horses, so she's there all the time, hanging around and
    hoping to get assigned to the mounteds one day. :-) The barn is right
    on the edge of the Blue Hills, we have trailered down and done several
    distance rides there....MDC even sponsors a ride-a-thon each spring, to
    benefit the Childrens' Research. Of course, recently all MDC police
    were merged with the State of Mass, Megan is now officially a Mass
    Statie, dont know what if any effect that will have on the mounted
    unit. FWIW.
    

re:.8
	It doesn't surprise me in the least that the MDC had a mounted force.
	Although the MDC police are/were the enforcement arm of the MDC.
	They can of course break their own rules as much as they like.
	That's the american way.

	Still see officers with full "MDC" labels running around, they may
	report into the state police but they are probably still MDC.

	It would be interesting to see MDC horses on MDC land... Now there
	would be a interesting bit of irony. (just to rub it in the faces
	of the "little people".)

Ed

    I don't believe it is the horses the MDC is against, but what the
    riders do when going through the trail.  Not everyone is as responsible
    as we'd like to think.  People litter and trash just about every trail
    I've ever ridden on....sometimes I can't imagine how that mattress or
    appliance got out in the middle of nowhere. 
    
    The MDC is protecting the public water supply, if they let horse/riders
    go thru, they open themselves up to other groups who like to enjoy
    nature and trails.  What happens if they let everybody in.....they
    water will end pollutted, maybe not today or tomorrow, but what about
    5 or 10 years from now.  
    
    BTW, I was told the MDC opened up the area in southboro MA to 
    riders.....can anyone comment?
    
    Michele

No government body should have the broad powers that the MDC has.  There
HAS TO BE LIMITS!  The use of eminent domain should only be allowed in
rare cases.

This just reinforces my feeling of the arrogance of not just the MDC,
but of the city of Boston as a whole.  I have no choice but to blame the
people of Boston, because they have been continually voting into power
people who believe that Boston is the center of the universe.  I can't
count how many times I have heard Mayor Flyn cry about not getting enough
money from the state or Feds.  This, while the city of Boston does not
pass overrides, or even try for them I believe.

This is just like the Turnpike authority that paid off the bonds it
was authorized to manage, only to want to issue more bonds so that it
could keep itself in business.

If the MDC has all this money to spend, maybe they should use more of it
to clean the Boston Harbor, or lower (ghast!) the water rates of it's
ratepayers.

I am a FIRM believer in minimal government, and this is just the reason
why.  But in taxachusetts, and the socialist republic of Massachusetts,
most everyone (at least the majority) believe that unless the government
is controlling your life, it is not doing enough.  This is one of the
main reasons that people are leaving Massachusetts in droves.

I only wish there was something we could do.  The only thing I can come
up with is a referendum drive to put a referendum on the ballot to limit
the power of the MDC and other authorities.  But, with such a small group
of people affected (is it really small?), this is not likely to happen.

Ed..

    NOTED::MASSACHUSETTS?

    The Metropolitan District Commission (MDC) went out of business
    several years ago and its water supply functions were taken over by a
    new bureaucracy called the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority
    (MWRA) who are also responsible for the Boston Harbor clean up. The MDC
    police became part of the Massachusetts Sate Police I think.
    
    The State Legislature passed legislation providing funding for land
    acquisition in the Wachusetts and Quabbin watershed. The potential
    development of this land is considered a threat to water quality. The
    MWRA and the MDC before it supplies water to most of the built up areas
    of Eastern Massachusetts, not only Boston. It's not just big bad
    industrial chemical companies that cause pollution, your backyard
    septic system (plus those of your neighbours) can also do a number of
    less than beneficial things to ground water if not properly maintained.
    This plus runoff from parking lots, where your car would never spill so
    much as a drop of oil, the winter time salt that is spread on these
    lots, their driveways and highways all tend to end up in the water
    supply. Even fertilizing a lawn in the wrong place causes problems. 
    Everybody's little bit of pollution times everybody can wreak severe
    environmental damage. Therefore taking land out of development is seen
    as one way of controlling the damage.
    
    Now I have not witnessed the new MWRA bureaucracy in action, so I can't
    comment on their style. All state bureaucracies can be influenced by state
    politics. The U.S. constitution prevents the seizure of property in the
    public interest without compensation. If you have been a happy
    trespasser, which is what most trail riders are on private land, it's
    unlikely that any of your constitutional rights have been violated by
    the MWRA's actions.

re: 1660.13 (FORTY2::GUNN)

Thank-you for the info on the MWRA, I wasn't aware of this... Odd that the
letters "MDC" are still used officially even as late as Sept 10th 1992. I'll 
stop here as this is going off-topic of horses.

I'd like to comment on your statement,

"If you have been a happy trespasser, which is what most trail riders are 
on private land,..."

You imply a wrong conclusion in your statement; that MOST (your choice of word) 
trail riders in are performing the act illegally (eg without landowner permission).

I contend that if I use my area as a model very few (if any) "trespass" illegally.
The few riders that use the local woods and fields do so with explicit permission
of the landowners. Maybe your neighborhood is different. :-)

I didn't mean to make a big deal about the MDC/MWRA although it seem to turn out 
that way, I was more interested in knowing if riding trails been disappearing 
due to land aquisitions by the state. It was silly of me to ask.

Ed

    This may have a lot to do with the Cohen bill. People in my area are
    complaining about losing their land. Boston trashes their water and
    land and continues to dump into the cape.... but let them control ours
    and tell us how to keep land clean. Go figure...

    I live in Southboro...and I am NOT aware of any MDC tails open to 
    horse back riding. In fact....we are haveing to out run the MDC
    police all the time.
    
    I do think that there was some kind of walk way that was opened up
    from Lynbrook Rd. along the water to Deerfoot Rd for hikers only to
    walk. I will call the town hall today and get more information.
    
    terry