Conference noted::equitation

    
    
    Superstition has it that still waters may be sleeping waters adn
    harmful to the health.  A horse will always blow before drinking at
    night, to awaken the water and prevent death from sleeping water.
    
    From The OLD FARMERS ALMANAC for Sat., May 9th, 1992.
    
    Pat

    
    
    At Farrington, New Hampshire, many, many, years ago, an old fellow was
    fined for drunkenness on a charge that he clop-clopped along the
    highway at night, on an unlit nag, was thrown, and went to sleep in the
    road.  "Horse was sober and released," added the police report,
    meticulously.
    
    From THE OLD FARMERS ALMANAC for Thurs., Feb. 6, 1992.
    

    
    
    	Jean Autries (sp)? horses name...  Buttermilk

    re .-1
    
    Nahhh.  Gene Autry's horse was named Champion.  Roy Rogers' horse was
    named Trigger and Dale Evans' horse was named Buttermilk.
    
    -ellie who-used-to-have-little-plastic-statues-of-all-of-them

    Yea Ellie!  And Pat Brady's jeep was................
    

    Nellie Belle was Pat Brady's Jeep...
    
    Who was Smiley Burnett's Horse???
    

    Ok, how about an easier one... What was Hopalong Cassidy's horse's
    name?

    I don't know Smiley Burnett and I can't remember Hopalong's horse...
    
    ...but did you know that the Lone Ranger's horse, Silver, had a son?
    I DO remember his name.  Man, am I old.

    Smiley Burnett was a sidekick to Gene Autry.  He rode a gray with
    distinctive markings, one of which gives away his name.  Smiley was a
    big goofy type sidekick who wore a black hat that was always flipped up
    in the front like a fishing hat might look...  Hint the horse's name
    had to do with his eye.
    
    As to the son of Silver... is wasn't Trigger,Jr. was it... ;> ...

    Let me guess... was it Platinum?

    Hopalong Cassidy's horse was called Topper

    That's right John.  Do you remember Smiley Burnett and his horse?
    Anybody remember Rex Allen's horses name?

    And, son of Silver was........Victor.  I swear I'm not making this up.
    

    Time's up... Smiley Burnett's horse and dog each had a ring around its
    eye... the horse's name was Ringeye.  No, I didn't make that up either.
    I don't remember the dog's name.
    
    

    What was Billy Crystal's horse's name?  (hint: He bought
    the one he rode in City Slickers)
    
    

    re .14 How about "Ringworm" for the dog :-) Sorry, I couldn't resist.
    
    Anyway, does anybody remember the Cisco Kid? For those that do, what
    was his horse's name?
    
    How about the horses that Wild Bill Hickock and his sidekick, 
    Jingles(played by Andy Devine) rode on that old TV show? Anybody
    remember their names?
    
    Or the name of the horse that played The Black in the movie, "The Black
    Stallion."

    
>    Or the name of the horse that played The Black in the movie, "The Black
>    Stallion."

     Cass Ole, whose nick name at birth was "Mickey Mouse" because he 
		was a mouse grey color.

     BTW, most of the horses you see in the TV show "The Black Stallion"
	are NOT arabians. They use several black horses in the filming.
	To the even just moderately experienced eye, it is obvious that 
	these are totally different horses. I have noticed an Andalusian, 
	a Saddlebred and a Throroughbred playing the part. In one recent 
	episode, the only horse that was actually an Arabian was one where
	the kid was riding the horse bareback with just a halter and lead
	rope. The scenes where the horse is being wild are nearly always 
	played by horses of other breeds. This show continues to promote 
	the publics view of Arabians as wild and vicious animals, and I'm 
	surprised that the IAHA hasn't protested it.

    re: .17 and the Black
    
    I think it's kinda funny that they have an arab racing againt TBs.
    I wouldn't think it would be the norm, maybe it is?
    
    M

    There are acually three horses used in The Black...Diamond Night was
    one of them along with Cass Ole. I don't remember the third. Diamond
    Night was in an article in Eqquus a few years back because he broke
    a front leg doing a rear command. It was successfully healed, setting
    new limits in equine leg repair. They used an external fixation device
    that could bear full weight and because of his intelligence and
    training, Diamond Night was a good patient. If you watch the movie
    closly you can see him, they had to black out his star and one white
    foot. Some shots it still shows.
    

    The Cisco Kid's horses name was Diablo.
    
    Can you remember Dance's with Wolves horse's name?
    
    Rex Allen's horse's name was Cocoa.
    

    re .18
    
    Yes, the Arab/thoroughbred races were bewildering in the early Black
    Stallion books.  I have to guess that when Walter Farley wrote the
    first one, "The Black Stallion" he did not realize that race horses are
    all Thoroughbreds.  This is a common confusion, though.  I remember
    some TV show a few years back (lifestyles of the rich and inane, or
    something like that) that showed Arab horses in the desert, and then
    showed American and Irish racing stables, and gave the impression that
    these were the same breed of horse.  Now I *know* that Thoroughbreds
    are descendents of Arabs, but that was *many* generations ago. But the
    uninformed public hasn't caught up on these niceties yet.  There seems
    to be lots of popular del;usions about Arabian horses anyway.  When I was 
    a kid, I had a friend who was *sure* all Arabians were stallions.... 
    When I tried to put her right on the facts, I got in trouble with her
    mom.  We weren't supposed to know those things yet....   8^}
    
    -ellie

    Since were discussing trivia, I must point out that Walter Farley
    CLEARLY states in the original book, "The Black Stallion", that the
    horse is NOT a full blooded Arabian! If you've forgotten that, maybe
    it's time for you to re-read the book rather than rely on the Hollywood
    versions?
    
    And since we're also sort of on the subject of Arabs & Thoroughbreds
    and related misconceptions, I'll point out something else. Lots of
    people think that the Arab and other Middle Eastern stallions were
    brought into England to increase the speed of English horses and/or
    that the Arab/Turk stallions bred to common cart horses.
    
    Nothing could be further from the truth. The English and Irish had been
    racing for centuries before the importation of Middle Eastern stallions
    began. They ran sprint races much like the American Quarter Horses do
    today and had developed the breeds called Hobby. The English and Irish 
    Hobbies were very fast over short distances. The Irish Hobbies were
    reputed to be fiery in temperament. The English Hobbies were supposedly
    somewhat milder mannered but still feisty. The Hobby temperament and
    NOT THE ARAB temperament is probably the source of the modern
    Thoroughbreds' temperament(along with conditions under which racehorses
    in training are kept).
    
    About 1635, King Charles decreed that sprint racing was out and distance
    racing was in. His goals were to change racing and to improve the
    cavalry and general riding horses. The importation of Middle Eastern 
    stallions began immeditely thereafter to SLOW DOWN the Hobbies and to
    increase their endurance. The "Royal Mares" that these imported stallions 
    were breeding were from racing lines and not at all common.
    
    The Hobby Horse very quickly went out of fashion in the British Isles.
    They were exported in large numbers to the colonies. We here in the
    US used them as the foundation stock of the Quarter Horse and  Morgan
    as well as the gaited breeds as many Hobbies had more than the standard
    3 gaits.

    John,
    
    Thank you for the EXTREMELY interesting information on the infusion of
    Arab horses with Hobby Horses to create the Thoroughbred.  This was
    complete new information for me, especially the part about Hobby
    Horses.
    
    I had a Hobby Horse when I was a child, but it was wooden.  I never
    knew there was a real breed called the Hobby Horse, I thought it was
    just a name for wooden horses.
    
    Thanks for the lesson.
    

    Okay... I'm ready to admit my age... is there anybody out there who
    remembers Tom Mix?   Who was Tom Mix's horse.
    
    I guess this will prove whose the oldest in this Notesfile!
    
   signed: Smiley Burnett's sidekick,  John Wood.

    RE .22
    
    > CLEARLY states in the original book, "The Black Stallion", that the
    > horse is NOT a full blooded Arabian! If you've forgotten that, maybe
    > it's time for you to re-read the book rather than rely on the
    > Hollywood versions?
    
    Geez, lighten up.  Bad enough you point out that I forgot something in
    a book I read for the last time 40 (?) years ago, but then you go on to
    insult me with the implication that I further adle my brain with
    television.  I'm hurt!  I'm gonna go hide in a corner.  8^) For the 
    record, I have NOT seen the movie, I didn't even KNOW there was a TV 
    series, blah, blah, blah.  Guess you got confused because I mentioned 
    a TV show, huh?  Well, even those of us who almost never watch TV get 
    subjected to it sometimes....

    Dances With Wolves horse was called Cisco.
    
    Are you sure The Black wasn't a purebred?  What else did they have out
    there in the desert, besides Arabs and Barbs?
    
    Mary

    I quote from Page 6 of "The Black Stallion" by Walter Farley:
    
    "He was a giant of a horse, glistening black-too big to be pure
    Arabian. His mane was like a crest, mounting, then falling low. His
    neck was long and slender, and arched to the small savagely beautiful
    head."
    
    Convinced?
    
    >What else did they have out here in the desert, besides Arabs and
    >Barbs?
    
    Why couldn't they have imported something? Like a Thoroughbred maybe?
    It is done today (e.g. Kuwait and other Arab emirates have TB racing)
    so why not 50 years ago?
    
    
    
    

    re ellie's reply a couple back:
    
    Aw, cmon out and play. I'll be nice this time! (Or try anyway)
    
    Seriously, the TV part of the comment about reading versus relying on
    Hollywood was aimed at an earlier mention of a TV show called "The
    Black Stallion" which I had neither heard of nor seen until a couple
    weeks ago...
    
    Are you serious that you've never seen the movie? That may be the last
    movie we went to see...on second thought, I think it was the 
    disappointing sequel..."The Black Stallion Returns"

    re Hobby horses...
    
    Yep there were two different breeds of Hobbies(Eng and Ire). According
    to the dictionary the word Hobby was used to refer to a small horse.
    If I'm not mistaken, both the wooden Hobby Horse and the current meaning of
    Hobby(i.e. a recreational past-time) are derived from the ancient
    breeds and their use as riding horses for both recreation and
    transportation.

Are we drifting from trivia?  Information about Hobby Horses probably
should have their own note (if not already created).  I always thought
of Hobby Horses as those ones that were given to children (fake, usually
wooden).

Ed..

    Ed,
    
    I thought my discussion of Hobby Horses was pretty trivial! It
    certainly wasn't very important! Save it up for your next game of 
    Equine Trivial Pursuit!

    
      >>  Aw, cmon out and play. I'll be nice this time! (Or try anyway)
      
    
       	Well, OK....   As long as you promise TV watching isn't required. 
    8^)  8^)
    
    It's true, I haven't seen the movie, although I did see part of it when
    a friend rented it.  I never do anything that requires staying in one
    place for more than a few minutes, it seems....  It's interesting what
    you say about The Black being described as not full-blooded Arabian. 
    When I read the first book (actually I read Son of the Black Stallion
    fost, and then went back to The Black Stallion) I had the idea that
    race horses were Arabians.  To us horse-crazy kids, any horse that did
    something exciting and glamorous, like being a race horse, had to be an
    Arabian, because those were the exotic horses.  Not sure where we got
    this idea, but there it is.  Anyway, I learned later, of course, that
    race horses are Thoroughbreds, not Arabians, and the books in the Black
    Stallion series by that time were all (or almost all) about
    thoroughbreds.  So from what you say, it seems he knew all that right
    from the beginning.  Neat.
    
    So, now that I've blathered on for a while, here's a piece of trivia --
    
    Violin bows are (or at least used to be) made of horse hair.  But not
    just any horse hair will do.  It has to be hair from the tail of an
    Arabian, because their tail hairs are round in cross section, and
    therefore do not curl in humid weather.
    
    -ellie
    

    Of course, one should consider that there is an Arabian racing
    "industry" (for lack of better word), most often seen during the fair
    circuit.  Typically, the races are something around 7 furlongs and
    shorter.  
    
    For the curious, there's also Appaloosa racing during the fair season,
    at least where I come from (races were about 4 furlongs, a half mile, I
    believe).  Appys were more commonly seen than Arabs.  Both breeds
    typically raced first on the card.
    
    
    kim
    

    
    
    	I have one.... 
    
    	What kinda of horse was Trigger.... (roy rogers horse)

    You mean other than a Palomino?   :)
    
    
    I believe he was a Tenn. Walking horse. 
    
    
    kim

    two replys:
    
    To John Wood:  I never reveal my age, my mother told me this, really!
    Tom Mix's horse was named Tony.
    
    To Ed Fultz:  Trigger was a Palomino.
    
    And it's true about tail hairs of Arabians and I believe that it's
    considered a fault if they do wave, kink or otherwise curl.
    
    gwen
    

Just for the record, there are two Fultzs noting here.  This time, the
trivia note was put in by my wife, not myself.  She get's frustrated
when people think she is me.

Ed..

    
    
    	Right.. It was a tennessee Walker horse....
    
    His color was palomino .. 

    
    I've got one - does anyone know the name of Superman's horse?
    
    Amy

Aw heck, I throw one into the pot...

	What was the name of Odin's horse?

Ed

re: superman

	I do!  I do!!  (Especially if it jumps!!)

			Single Bound

	(as in "Leaps tall buildings ...")


;-)

    How about Alexander the Great's horse?

    Bucephalus.
    

    Right!

    John,
    
    Wild Bill rode an App, what was his name??? I can't remember...
    
    Jingles rode a tall black... it must have been a strong horse, but I
    can't remember its name either.
    
    Do you remember Pancho, The Cisco Kid's side kick?  Pancho rode a
    Palomino.  What was its name?
    
    What was Gumby's horse's name?
    
    

    Gumby's sidekick was named Pokey....

    I give up... what were Wild Bill's and Jingles' horses named?
    
    I think Pancho's horse was named Angel???
    

    re: .41, Odin's horse is called Sleipnir, and he's instantly
    recognisable by his 8 legs.
    
    Here's one from me - What was the name of Caligula's horse, the one
    that was appointed Consul?

    Ok, Whats the name of Pipilongstocking's horse ?

    
    No one has mentioned Tonto's horse
    
    
    
    Scout was his name.
    
    
    
    
    I remember seeing a TV show way back when "The Black Stallion" came out
    in the movies and the owner is a woman who is blind.  The Horse was
    trained for her specialy.
    
    Lou

    
    What are the names of the Cartrights horses (from the TV show Bonanza)
    I can only remember one.
    
    
    
    Little Joe' horse - Cochise (sp) he was the leader of an indian tribe
    (can't remember the indian tribe..sorry)
    
    

    Pa Cartwright's horse - Buck
    

    Can anyone name the famous horse of Robert E. Lee?
    
    

    
    	His name was Traveler and he was a Tenn Walking Horse
    
    	Sherry
    

    Traveler is correct!

    
    
    	Do you know what kinda of horses Ross Preot father raised?

    were they mustangs???
    

    Whatever they were, I bet they had lots of bucks in em....   8^))
    
    -ellie

    
    
    	Nope.. .
    
    	Give you hint.. They need them for cotton picking

    Just a wild guess with political overtones, "jackasses"

    Some type of draft horse?

    No..
    
    	Tennessee Walkers  ... 
    
    	Read it News week.. June issue

    What was the name of the horse which survived Custer's Last Stand. BTW,
    I mean of that part of the 7th Regiment that was annihilated at Little
    Big Horn. Most people forget that Custer split the regiment into 3
    sections and that only the section he personally lead was wiped out.
    The other 2 sections had casualties but survived until the relief
    columns arrived 3 days after the battle.

    What was the name of the horse General Sherman rode in his Civil War
    campaigns?

    re .65    Comanche

    re.66 Was it Tecumseh?  As in Will "on Tecumseh" Sherman ;>
    
    It's a better answer than "ringworm..."

    re: .20 and .26 - regarding "Cisco" the U.S. Army issue Buckskin - what
    is Cisco's REAL name (I saw it in the credits as I was watching this
    movie for the 4th time...)
                               

    
    Sherman's horse -- Copenhagen?

    Sherman's horse was "Rienzi"

    
    
    	How do you say that  "Rienzi"???

    Rienzi = Ree en zee
    ree(as in repeat) en(as in the letter after 'm' in the alphabet) zee(as
    in the last letter if the alphabet)
    

    Can you name Don Quixote's horse???
    

    
      Hi,
    
        Rocinante, wasn't it?
    
      Lin

    Re .35-39 on Trigger
    
    I also saw an ad for Tenn Walkers which claimed Trigger was a Tenn
    Walker but I think you all must be talking about Trigger JR. 
    
    I saw an interview w/ Roy Rogers (He's still kicking at 81 but Dale had 
    a heart attack in May and isn't in too good a condition) on Prime Network's
    "HorseWorld" show for July. Roy said that the original Trigger was
    sired by a THOROUGHBRED stallion which raced in So CA and Tijuana
    and was out of a cold-blooded Palomino mare.
    
    Roy Rogers said that the original Trigger was a stallion but was so
    good natured that you could put kids on him from ears to tail! He also
    said that he didn't breed Trigger because he didn't want to risk a
    change in his disposition for the worse caused by the breeding. Trigger
    was featured in over 200 movies and TV shows and he lived to be 33.
    
    He didn't talk about Trigger JR's breeding but I guess that's what
    folks have been talking about in these notes
    
    John

    
    	John, I had heard Trigger was a TWH, and also saw the ad you
    	are referring to. The horse in the picture DOES have the classic
    	TWH profile, I must admit. I'd love to review a few old movies
    	to see the horse do a running walk, though! As it is, that ad is 
    	very unprofessional, and it wouldn't surprise me if Trigger was
    	only part TWH. The association running the ad would probably
    	not stop at twisting the truth for the sake of advertising...
    
    	Sherry
     

    Ken Maynard's horse was Tarzan.
    
    Pancho's horse was Loco.
    
    Who was Tex Ritter's horse?

    uh, who was Tex Ritter???
    
    mary

    John Ritter's father.  He was one of the more famous singing cowboys. 
    He actually had some hit records and appeared on the Grand Ole Opry...
    I think...  Maybe "Drifting Along With the Tumbling Tumbleweed" was one
    of his songs.  He rode a big white horse.
    

    So who was/is Ken Maynard?
    
    -ellie

    Ken Maynard was the lead in a trio of good guys named Hoot, Ken, and
    Bob ( Hoot Gibson, Ken Maynard, and Bob Steele ).  They were Western
    Matinee Cowboys in black and white films.
    
    I watched them mostly on TV when Cactus Jim came on right after Howdy 
    Doody every evening at 6 PM.  I never saw any of them in the movies
    so I can only guess that they made the movies pre-World War II.
    
    Ken Maynard's horse rode a big white horse named Tarzan.
    
    Tex Ritter rode White Flash.

    the penultimate paragraph should have said that Ken Maynard rode a
    horse named Tarzan.

    What about Zorro?  Can you name his horse???
    

    Toronado

    That's right, John.
    
    Are you ever gonna tell us about Wild Bill and Jingles?  I would like
    to know their horses' names.  Do you know?
    
    John

    Heck, I don't know. That was a genuine request for information because
    I can't remember Wild Bill's and Jingles' horses. I remmber that Wild
    Bill's was the best looking Appy I've ever seen and that Jingles' rode
    a large, sturdy bay but names????? We doan know no steenking names.

    Rats... I thought you knew...
    

    
    Wild Bill's horse was "Buckshot".  Sorry, I don't remember name of
    Jingle's horse.
    
    Does anyone remember Kermit Maynard (played a Canadian mountie in 
    westerns) and what his horse's name was?  Not sure, but I think Kermit
    was Ken's brother.
    
    Pat
    

    If Ken Maynard rode Tarzan, then maybe Kermit Maynard rode Cheetah:}
    

    Yeah, Buckshot sounds right! The horse was a blanket pattern Appy w/
    smallish spots in the white part of the pattern so I can see how they
    might have come up w/that name....Now, if I could only remember
    people's faces that well...

    re .91
    John -
    
    You should be eble to remember *politicians* faces very well, judging
    from what you remember about horses.   8^)
    
    -ellie

    I rarely remember the portion of the horse that resides under the tail!
    ;-)

    Unanswered trivia questions or unconfirmed correct answers would be
    worth loud APPLAUSE from the noting audience.  The ones I found are:
    
    1. Name Billy Crystal's horse in City Slickers.      5 points
    2. Name Jingle's horse.                             10 points
    3. Name Superman's horse.                           20 points
    4. Name Caligula's horse.                           50 points
    5. Name Pipilongstocking's horse.                   20 points
    6. Name Hoss's horse.                               10 points
    7. What was Cisco's (the horse) real name?          20 points
    8. Name Kermit Maynard's horse.                    100 points
    

    Here's another ...
    
    What was the name of the oldest horse on record?

    I think there was an Icelandic who lived to 54.....I'll have to sort
    thru some notes....

    Answer to number 7 in the trivia clean-up for 20 points:
    
    Cisco's real name is Justin.  Thank you McDonald's for the $ 7.95
    video.

    Does anyone remember Wild Bill Elliott?  What was his horse's name?
    
    I heard this answer on the Roy Rogers special.

    
    Just a guess on .97, was it "Smokey"?
    
    

    Nope, it was Thunder.

    What was Howdy Doody's horse's name?
    
    ANSWER:
    =======
    see next note for the answer
    

    Horse Doody   ;}

    
    
    Ain't that the stuff you take out of a horsey's pen?????
    
    

    Hey, I picked up some interseting trivia yesterday watching a
    scientific pap show called "Connections" on TV. 
    
    Everybody knows that the knights in the Middle Ages rode large horses.
    Do you know WHY they started using heavy horses? It was NOT because of 
    the weight of the armor. The armor came later.
    
    Supposedly, when they started to use riders with lances to spear people
    at the gallop, they found that the impact drove the rider out of the
    saddle. The rider landed on the ground in a heap and perhaps injured
    and therefore no further use as a soldier. 
    
    So, they provided the Middle Ages equivalent of a safety seat. They
    built up the cantle so high that the lancer couldn't come out of the
    saddle. The cantle also curved around a bit to keep the rider from
    going off sideways to the rear.
    
    Problem solved? Nope. The impact was transferred to the saddle's girth
    and the impact was so great that a light horse was knocked off it's feet.
    Bring on a horse heavy and stout enough to withstand the impact, stay
    on its feet and charge on to allow his rider to kill yet another human.
    
    Interestingly enough, the show went on to say that the rise of the
    heavy horse as a mount is what made being a mounted warrior the
    province of the "aristocracy." It was so expensive to raise the heavy
    horses that no peasant could afford one.
    
    Then came armour and the helmets w/visors. Heraldry was born of necessity. 
    They added paintings to their armor so they could be recognized by 
    their own soldiers. Kings made knights "nobles" and knighthoods became 
    hereditary to keep the knights loyal to their kings....
    
    All this in the pursuit of a better way to wage war......Then along
    came guns and we peasants on lighter horses could be cavalry again 

    
    
    Someone asked me the other day what a baby donkey is called, and I
    couldn't for the life of me remember! Can anyone remind me??
    
    Thanks
    Karen
    

    I thought it was a foal; maybe I'm just fo*lish.
    

    
    At last, the whole story on which Triger was what! Cross posted from
    rec.equestrian
    
From: Carol <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: TRIGGER
Date: 1 Dec 1993 12:08:27 GMT
Organization: Cornell University

Well now you're in my field of knowledge.  I too loved Trigger.  What a
horse!  He was the offspring of a cold blooded (actual breed unknown)
palomino mare and his sire was a TB right off the track.  Trigger's first
movies (before Roy days) was the Robin Hood with E. Flynn.  Trigger was
just stunning in his first screen appearance.  Trigger stood 15.3, had
one white anklet and a large white area on his face.  Part extended over
his left eye and included the nostrils and mouth.  He was a sweetheart of
a horse. He passed away in 1965 at the age of about 33 years.

But.....the horses that were sold were not Trigger get.  Sorry... they
were Trigger, Jr. who was a Tenn. walker.  Had 4 white stockings and a
narrower blaze.  He was more of a trick horse. Trigger got the best of
both of his sire and dam.  He was an athlete and good outrun anything. 
Jr. was the performer.  And then there was Little Trigger.  He was the
one that did the traveling around, on the most part, for public
appearances.  He also had a personality that was not as sweet as Trigger.
Roy had many a spot that hurt from this guy.  Little Trigger was a
quarter horse and a beautiful palomino with 4 white socks and a narrow
blaze.  He was a bit heavier than Jr. or Trigger. 

So, I've probably told you more than you wanted to know - but hay - I'm a
horse nut and a Trigger fan - a collector of Roy memorabilia - attend the
OH festival -- and Roy was and is my hero.

    Thanks for the Trigger trivia... I knew about Jr, but not Little
    Trigger.  When Roy walked off the screen at the end of his special,
    leading a bay... it almost made me disbelieve my eyes... it must have
    been hard for Roy too... not to ride and not to ride Trigger! 

    My all-time favorite show was on every Saturday morning. It was about a
    Lassie-like black stallion named Fury.  It starred Bobby Diamond as
    Joey and his guardian, Jim.  Jim was played by an actor who is now
    famous in his own right, but he is also the brother of a cowboy great
    from Gunsmoke... for 100 points and a sincere Happy Holiday wish, can
    anybody name:
    
    	the actor who played Jim? 	10 points
    	his brother from Gunsmoke?       5 points
    	Fury's son on the show?         35 points
    	the hired hand's name?		50 points                                 
    
    

    
    
    	Boy!  you got me... I remember the show clearly, and *loved* it
    but was never into details (tho I should remember Furys sons name
    cuz I'm much better at horse names than people names!)  
    
    	Fury was an extremely gentle horse who really saved Joey just
    like Lassie on many occasions.  
    
    	No points for me - but extended Holiday wishes to all (and to
    all a good night)
    
    					ho ho ho - holly
    

    I remember that one too!
    
    	    the actor who played Jim?       10 points
    		Peter Graves
            his brother from Gunsmoke?       5 points
    		Jim Arness
            Fury's son on the show?         35 points
    		Beats the heck outta me! That musta been after I stopped
    watching the show...
            the hired hand's name?          50 points 
    		Pete
    

    John,
    
    Considering the fact that Fury's son only made one show (as I recall),
    you have a great memory... it's a R E A L trivia question as to his
    son's name and now I feel guilty for giving it so many points...
    
    In the holiday spirit, I am dropping that question to 10 points, so you
    get an "A"; nothing less than you deserve... Merry Christmas...
    
    Now, if you could only remember Jingle's horse's name, we could really
    celebrate...
    
    JW 8}
    
    PS  Fury's son was named Thunder.

    Can you name Joey's friend on Fury?  What about his friend's horse?
    What was the name of the ranch?
    
    2 outta 3 gets you another "A", John...
    
    JW 8}

    Packy was Joey's friend.
    
    Packy didn't have a horse of his own.
    
    The Ranch was "The Broken Wheel".
    
    I guess that's all my Fury questions.  Doesn't anyone else have some
    questions?  How about Flicka or the Red Pony or some other story?
    
    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
    
    JW 8}

    Who was Flicka's sire?
    
    Who was in Flicka's lineage that made her relatives' genes suspect of
    being loco?
    
    What did the name Flicka mean; in what language?
    
    

    Oh goodness, here goes nothing - I haven't read these books in 20
    years: Flicka's father - was that Thunderhead?  Wasn't there a creme 
    stallion that was loco and Flicka's colt was a throwback?  But turned
    out to have a good disposition?
    
    Flicka is Swedish for little girl or little friend!  Don't laugh if I'm
    way off on this - like I said - I read these  books (My friend flicka,
    green grass of wyoming, thunderhead(?) a looonnnnggg time ago.)
                                   

    I too remember Flicka's sire as Thunderhead.
    
    But, I remember Flicka as meaning simply "girl" rather than "little
    girl"...course it's been ages since I read those books too.
    
    As for the loco streak, wasn't that because her dam was a "stargazer"
    who had been untrainable?

    Well, I think you get partial credit; since I read the book some 35
    years ago my memory may not be perfect either.
    
    Flicka's sire (as I recall) was Banner.
    
    Her dam's sire (I think) was "The Albino" who was loco.
    
    The name Flicka is just as you stated, Swedish for little girl or maybe
    it was pretty little girl.
     

    Or was Thunderhead Flicka's colt?  I don't remember this well.

    Yeah, that's what I thought... Thunderhead was Flicka's colt... but
    then, again I'm not sure.
    

    RE a few notes back, Wild Bill Elliot had 2 horses:  Sonny and Stormy.
    I've never heard of his horse being named Thunder.
    
    Red Ryder's horse, however, was named Thunder.
    
    RE many notes back, Superman's horse, aka Superhorse, is Comet, Hoss's
    horse (from Bonanza) is Chub, Caligula's horse was Incitatus, Tom
    Mix's horse was named Tony, and Jody's horse (from Steinbeck's The
    Red Pony) is named Gabilan.
    
    Here's more horse trivia.  You are asked to provide the names of the
    horses for these historic notables (10 points for each correct answer):
    
    1.  El Cid
    2.  Thomas Paine
    3.  U. S. Grant (he had 2 horses)
    4.  Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington
    5.  President John Tyler
    6.  George Washington
    7.  Caroline Kennedy's Pony
    8.  Napolean Bonaparte
    9.  Zachary Taylor
    10. George Armstrong Custer
    
    Trivia for extra credit (5 points each):
    
    1.  The name of the only horse to beat Man O'War.
    2.  The only Perry Mason case to have the word "horse" in the title.
    
    Answers on Friday.
    
    Carl-who-may-not-know-a-lot-about-horses-in-general-but-knows-a-little-
    bit-about-trivia

    Re:  Flicka trivia
    
    - Flicka's sire was Banner, her mother was Rocket.  I don't think the
      Albino was Rocket's sire, but am not sure.  I do remember that Rocket
      was pretty crazy and they had a really hard time catching her.  She
      had part of a rope around her neck for a long time from a previous
      effort to catch her.  When they finally got her and Flicka, the rope
      was removed and they somehow got Rocket in a truck to take to someone
      else.  When they were passing under the farm sign (which was over the
      road supported by a pole on each side), Rocket reared up, hitting her
      poll on the sign and killed herself.
    
    - Thunderhead was Flicka's son.  At first people thought he was by the
      Albino, since he was white (but he was not an albino).  However, it
      was discovered that his father was really a racehorse owned by one
      of the neighbors (can't remember the horse's name though).
    
    			Jan (who read My Friend Flicka, Thunderhead, and
    			Green Grass of Wyoming many times, but don't ask
    			me how I remembered this stuff!)

    re: -.2
    
    Caroline Kennedy's pony was Macaroni
    (and that's all I know of that whole list!!)
    
    Another one: what was the name of Paul Revere's horse he rode to
    warn the colonists of the British soldiers?
    
    Ellen

    Re Carl's *long* list of notable folks...
    
    I know a couple of their horses but I'm going to hedge and say that most 
    of those people lived when horses were a primary means of transport. That 
    means they probably owned more than one horse in their lives; like most 
    of us have owned more than one car. So, my answers may not be the ones Carl
    had in mind....
    
    GEORGE WASHINGTON
    	Ole Georgie rode a gray horse that I think was called Ranger
    
    NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
    	One of his favorite mounts was an Arabian stallion called Vizer.
    	He gave this stallion to one of the Hapsburgs(the Austrian
    	emperors) in/about 1804. Vizer was sent to the stud farm at Lipica
    	and became an influence on the Lipizzaner breed.
    
    GEORGE ARMSTRONG CUSTER
    	Custer owned several horses at the time of his death and had 2 horses 
    	with him on his final campaign. The one he was riding the day of
    	Little Bighorn was Vic, a Kentucky Thoroughbred. Vic was captured
    	by the Indians. The other horse was Dandy which was with the pack
    	train on the day of the battle. Dandy was sent back to Mrs Custer.
    
    WHO BEAT Man O'War?
    	That was Upset.
    
    	For more trivia, 
    		1. What race did Upset win from Man O'War? What year? Where?
    		2. In whose colors did Upset run?
    		3. Who was Upset's jockey in that race?
    		4. What other famous horse did Upset's jockey ride and
    		   later train?
    
    John

    Upset beat Man O'War in the Sanford Memorial Stakes at Saratoga, August
    13, 1919.
    
    Don't know about the jockey or colors, though.
    
    Carl

    
    Was the black horse that carried JFK's boots in his funeral his
    horse?  Or was it just a horse for the funeral?  If it was his,
    what was his name?

    Well, it doesn't look like there are going to be any more attempts to
    answer the historic notables horse's names questions, so here they are:
    
    Disclaimer:
    While I'm sure John is correct about these persons having more than one
    horse at a time and having many horses over the courses of their lives,
    I can only go by what I have read in my sources.  In most cases, I have
    more than one source that concur on the names of the horses.  I can
    only assume that the horses named below were their favorites, or the
    only names anyone can remember, or the horses that were owned or ridden
    at "high points" in the notable person's life, or something like that.
    
    Anyway, here goes:
    
    1.  El Cid                                    - Babieca
    2.  Thomas Paine                              - Button
    3.  U. S. Grant                               - Egypt and Cincinnatus
    4.  Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington  - Copenhagen
    5.  President John Tyler                      - The General
    6.  George Washington                         - Lexington
    7.  Caroline Kennedy's Pony                   - Macaroni
    8.  Napoleon Bonaparte                        - Marengo
    9.  Zachary Taylor                            - Old Whitey
    10. George Armstrong Custer                   - Vic
    
    Extra Credit questions:
    
    1.  The only horse to beat Man O'War          - Upset
    2.  The only Perry Mason mystery to have the
        word "horse" in the title                 - The Case of the Fan
                                                    Dancer's Horse (1947)
    
    Now let's total up the scoring:
    
    SAC::WALTHER_E       10 points for Macaroni
    
    DECWET::JDADDAMIO    10 points for Vic
                          5 extra credit points for Upset
                          5 points for Vizer (I don't doubt that the name
                                   is correct and you have a convincing
                                   story)
                          5 points for Dandy (I don't have a souce that
                                   gives this name, but, again, the story
                                   is pretty good)
                          0 points for Ranger (sorry, if you had given a
                                   story for him too, maybe I'd give you
                                   the benefit of the doubt)
                         --
                         25 points total
    
    Congratulations to John for the highest point total.  You win a no-
    expenses paid trip home after work later today!
    
    RE 445.122  Paul Revere's horse for his historic ride is reported to
    have been Brown Bess, this by a local newspaper at the time.
    
    RE 445.125  The name of the riderless horse at JFK's funeral was
    Black Jack.  As far as I know, the horse was not his but was provided
    by the U. S. Cavalry.
    
    If it's trivial, I can't forget it, even if I try.  If it's important,
    I can't remember it to save my life.
    
    Carl

    Hey Carl! At least we agreed on 2(Vic and Upset)! About Dandy and
    Vizer, I have sources that give those names. I had read about Dandy in
    a book about Comanche(the wounded cavalry horse left alive on the
    battlefield when Custer's relief arrived). Vizer's name appears in
    several books on Lipizzan history. There was a story for Ranger too 
    in a magazine article on famous grey horses that I've tossed.  Besides, 
    it was too long to type.
    
    john

    OK, OK, John, you win.  I'll give you 5 points for Ranger.  This
    brings your point total to 30.  But 1st prize remains the same.
    
    Here's more trivia for everyone to think about over the weekend.  You
    are asked to provide the names of these literary, mythological, and
    cartoon horses (10 point each):
    
    1.  The horse in George Orwell's book "Animal Farm"
    2.  The horse in the Disney cartoon movie "101 Dalmations"
    3.  Brunhilde's horse (germanic mythology)
    4.  The name of the horse nation in "Gulliver's Travels"
    5.  The Phantom's horse
    6.  The horse in the book "National Velvet"
    7.  The winged horse in the Mighty Mouse cartoons
    8.  The horse that was turned into a coachman in the Disney cartoon
        movie "Cinderella"
    9.  Casper the friendly ghost's horse
    10. What horse sprang from the blood of Medusa?
    
    Extra credit (5 points each):
    1.  The name of the horse in the TV show "National Velvet"
    2.  Johnny West's toy horse
    3.  Pecos Bill's horse
    
    Answers next week sometime.
    
    Carl-who-has-not-yet-run-out

�           <<< Note 445.128 by EASI::GEENEN "Vescere bracis meis." >>>
�                        -< Even more horse name trivia >-

�    6.  The horse in the book "National Velvet"

	The Pie (for The Piebald)

    Gee, Carl. I don't know if I can stand the excitement of having
    my point total raised......I wasn't even keeping score. Just didn't
    want you to think I'd made up Ranger...
    
    The answers to the Upset trivia:
            1. What race did Upset win from Man O'War? What year? Where?
		Carl got that it one! Upset beat Man O'War in the Sanford 
                Memorial Stakes for 2YOs at Saratoga(New York), August 
                13, 1919.

		According to contemporary accounts(I'm not *that* old!), 
		Man O'War broke badly and spotted the field something like
		10 lengths. He closed like a rocket but could not find 
		racing room. Upset's jockey later said that if he had moved
		Upset over just the slightest bit, Man O'War would have got
		through and left him and Upset far behind. Years later, he 
                said that he regretted not having moved over because a 
		horse as great 	as Man O'War deserved to retire undefeated.

            2. In whose colors did Upset run?
		Whitney Stables
            3. Who was Upset's jockey in that race?
		William(Willie) Knapp

            4. What other famous horse did Upset's jockey ride and
               later train?

		I think I'll let this one sit another couple days. Now that
		you know who the jockey was maybe somebody will remember
		another famous horse(HINT! HINT!) Willie Knapp rode.

    Carl,
    
    Please keep it up; I love trying to figure these out.
    
    So far I got the 2 easiest ones; i.e., Macaroni and Pie.
    
    You never volunteered to answer our 2 long lost questions though:
    
    	Pipilongstocking's horse and
    	Jingle's horse.
    
    You are really giving John a run for his money; I love to watch him
    squirm over details like Ranger, etc.  He hates to give up.
    
    t'other John (John Wood)

    Was Pecos Bill's horse Ole Paint?

    Nightmare was Casper the friendly ghost's horse.

    Captain was the horse in "101 Dalmations" according to my daughters,
    Lorna and Elizabeth.
    

    RE: 131
    I'm working on Pipi Longstocking's horse and Jingle.
    
    There's also Billy Crystal's horse in City Slickers.
    
    RE: 132
    No, sorry.
    
    RE: 133
    No (title), yes.
    
    RE: 134
    Lorna and Elizabeth get an A+.
    
    Are we having fun yet?
    Carl

    I almost forgot.  Another source I read over the weekend listed
    Paul Revere's horse on his historic ride as being Brown Beauty.  The
    guy who wrote about this was not sure, however, if that was really the
    horse's name or whether the newspaper was following the usual practice
    at the time of capitalizing important nouns and other words to give
    them extra emphasis.
    
    Both of my sources agree that the horse was borrowed for the ride.
    
    Trivial Carl

    Willie Knapp rode Exterminator to victory in the 1918 Ky Derby.  Is
    this the horse you were thinking of, John D.?
    
    I saved my KY Derby copy of the DRF, just for stuff like this.
    
    Carl

    Re squirming....
    I quote Charlie Whittingham: "Never give up till they put the pennies
    on your eyes."
    
    Yup, Willie Knapp rode Exterminator and, after Knapp retired from
    riding, he trained Exterminator. Exterminator won 50 of his 100 starts
    and raced until he was 9 years old. Many believe that Exterminator was
    raced 2 years past his prime and should have been retired after his 7
    YO campaign. He didn't win as frequently the last 2 years. If he had
    been retired at 7, or his win percentage would have been much higher.
    
    BTW, wasn't Exterminator's Derby(2:17) the slowest KY Derby since it was 
    changed to 10 furlongs? (For those who didn't know it, the original 
    distance was 12 furlongs which is 1.5 miles. After 5 years, the race 
    was shortened to its present distance)

    What was Baby Sister's horse's name in the movie "True Grit"?
    
    

    Little Blackie

    Little Blackie is correct... what was John Wayne's horse named in that
    movie?

    Beau
    
    (You just happened to pick one of my favorite movies)

    You guyes are amazing!!!!!  

    What was Captain Call's favorite mount on "Lonesome Dove"?
    Can you remember Newt's horse?  What was its name?
    How about Sugar; who rode Sugar?

    Newt's horse was Mouse...hey, I actually KNEW one of these things!
    
    And wasn't Captain Call's nasty little mare called the "Hell B*tch"??
    

    You are goooood! Mouse and Hell Bitch are correct.  Anybody remember
    Sugar? (hint... there was a big fight caused by the Army trying to
    buy her from her owner)

    Squirmers and Others:
    
    Stumped ya, huh?  Well, never fear here are the answers -
    
    1.  The horse in George Orwell's book "Animal Farm"
        Boxer
    2.  The horse in "101 Dalmations"
        The Captain
    3.  Brunhilde's horse
        Grane (no opera fans in this bunch, I guess)
    4.  The name of the horse nation in "Gulliver's Travels"
        Houyhnhnms (your guess is as good as mine on how to pronounce it)
    5.  The Phantom's horse
        Hero
    6.  The horse in the book "National Velvet"
        The Pie (short for The Piebald)
    7.  The windged horse in the Mighty Mouse cartoons
        Luno
    8.  The horse turned into a coachman in the Disney cartoon movie
        "Cinderella"
        Major
    9.  Casper the friendly ghost's horse
        Nightmare
    10. What horse sprang from the blood of Medusa?
        Pegasus
    
    Extra credit questions:
    
    1.  The horse's name on the TV show "National Velvet"
        King (I guess they thought The Pie wouldn't fly on TV)
    2.  Johnny West's toy horse
        Thunderbolt
    3.  Pecos Bill's horse
        Widow Maker
    
    And now for the scoring:
    
    BOUVS::OAKEY  10 points for The Pie
    
    DECWET::JDADDAMIO  10 points for The Pie (told to me via private Email)
    
    GRANMA::JWOOD  10 points for the Pie
                   10 points for Nightmare
    
    Lorna and Elizabeth  10 points for The Captain
    
    Big winner:  GRANMA::JWOOD with 20 points
    
    Carl-who-is-still-not-done

    I'm embarassed! I shoulda known the horse in "Animal Farm" and Pegasus
    but my memory of high school English Lit courses is dim....yes, we did
    study Greek mythology in English Lit even if it doesn't make sense!
    
    Re >Grane (no opera fans in this bunch, I guess)
    Hey, I love opera! I can always use a good nap! I mean everybody just
    *loves* sitting through 3 hours of fat ladies singing extremely long 
    songs(usually while they're dying!) in a language we don't 
    understand, right? ;-) [For those who haven't figured it out, I'm
    teasing Carl because I know he's a singer and likes opera]
    
    Re 
    >6.  The horse in the book "National Velvet"
    >The Pie (short for The Piebald)
    
    What's the next level of detail smaller than trivia? minutia?
    
    Ok, everybody knows piebald is a black & white spotted horse, right?
    
    1. Well, in the 1940's film version "National Velvet"(yes, the one with
    Liz Taylor & Mickey Rooney), what color was the horse that played The Pie? 
    
    2. How did this horse reappear in another movie more than 30 years
    later?

    1. The Pie was a chestnut; not only not piebald, but not even the
    right color if he were.
    2. I haven't got a clue how he may have appeared in a movie 30 years
    later.

    1. The Pie in the original movie was a chestnut with white stockings...
       and while his name was "Pie", it was short for "Pirate" in the
       movie, not "Piebald" as in the book. Guess they couldn't find a
       pinto/paint to use in the filming. :-)
    
    2. He reappeared in "International Velvet", as the sire of an 
       international show jumper named "Arizona Pie".
    

    
    
    	ok... I'll bite John
    
    	1.  He appeared in 1940 in black and white - because the movie
    	    was not in color.
    
    	2.  He reappeared by the miracle of modern technology - colorized
    
    	I don't mean to be cute - in fact I like the answers -1 better
    
    			smiles - h
    

    Sorry, Holly! Good try though! "National Velvet" was originally filmed in 
    Technicolor in 1944.
    
    John W and Linda are right. The horse that played Pie was chestnut with
    a blaze and 4 white stockings. Linda's right that The Pie reappeared as
    the sire of an Olympic 3 Day event horse called "Arizona Pie" in the
    filme, "International Velvet"....
    
    But, I meant where did the horse that played The Pie reappear 30 years
    later. Sorry for being ambiguous earlier
    
    

    Dish Boggett rode "Sugar" in "Lonesome Dove".
    
    

    >How did the horse that played Pie in the 1944 film "National Velvet" 
    >reappear in another film over 30 years later?
    
    In the 1980 film "The Black Stallion", there is a photograph of Mickey
    Rooney jumping "The Pie" hanging on the tack room wall in Henry Daley's
    barn. Mickey Rooney played Henry Daley in that film as well as "Mi" in
    "National Velvet"..........

    Hello there:
    
    I've just returned from a thrilling week in Houston,TX where, believe
    it or not, I saw not one horse!  And I thought the place would be
    crawling (or at least trotting) with them.
    
    Speaking of horses (clever segue, no?), let me offer you this little
    test of your horse name knowledge.  You are asked to provide the names
    of the horses for these TV/Movie characters (10 points for each correct
    response):
    
    1.  Pablito, from the movie "The Littlest Outlaw"
    2.  Tim Holt
    3.  William S. Hart
    4.  Johnny Mack Brown
    5.  Sergeant Preston of the Yukon (what was his dog's name?)
    6.  Spin, from the Mickey Mouse Club serial "Spin and Marty"
    7.  Marty, from the same serial
    8.  Buck Jones
    9.  Lee Marvin's drunken horse, from the movie "Cat Ballou"
    10. Professor Marvel, from "The Wizard of Oz"
    
    Extra points (5 points each):
    
    1.  Annie Oakley, from the TV show of the same name
    2.  Which horse was known as the "world's wonder horse"
    
    Answers later in the week,
    Carl

    5. King... I think his proper name was Yukon King, but Sargent Preston
    always called him King when he called to his lead dog, " On King! ".

    Spin rode a Paint and Marty rode a Palamino, but I can't remember their
    names; I'll guess...
    
    Was Spin's horse Warpaint?
    Was Marty's horse Pal?

    The Horse of a Different Color.
    

    I'll try for 5 bonus points.
    
    The World's Wonder Horse was Fury.
    

    Sergeant Preston's horse was named Prince.
    

    
    Who's Spin and Marty?  I guess it was before my time

    >    Who's Spin and Marty?  I guess it was before my time
    
    You really know how to make a guy feel old, ya know? ;-)
    
    Just kidding...
    
    Anyway, Spin and Marty was a series of adventures 2 teenage boys who
    went to a boy's ranch summer camp. The series was part of the Mickey
    Mouse Club back in the '50s but the MMC has been replayed on TV at
    various times. 

    RE:  156 - The dog's name is indeed King, but what about the horse?
    
    RE:  157 - Sorry, no on both guesses.
    
    RE:  158 - Not the name I'm looking for.
    
    RE:  159 - Nice try, no cigar.
    
    RE:  160 - Close.  Try again.
    
    RE:  161 - See 162.
    
    RE:  162 - Right you are, John.  We're not old, we just have long
               memories.
    
    Carl

    How about Trigger for "The World's Wonder Horse" ?
    

    RE:  -.1 - You're in the right genre and time period, but not the
               correct response yet.
    
    Carl

    Skyrocket was the horse from Spin & Marty.  I think Spin rode him at
    first, but Marty may have ridden him after he learned how to ride. 
    Don't remember what the other horse's name was, though.
    
    For 1. - Pablito's horse was Conquistador (at least that was the horse
    he stole, I think he was given the horse at the end of the movie).

    Re .164 & .165
    
    Trigger was known as "The Smartest Horse In The Movies"
    
    I think it was Gene Autry's Horse, Champion, that Carl was refering to.

    Well, I think it must Champion.
    
    I promise, if that's not right, I'll keep guessing.
    

    Ya'll are too clever, he said in his best Texas drawl.
    
    RE:  166 - Yes, Marty's horse was Skyrocket and Pablito's horse was
               Conquistador
    
    RE:  167 - Another score!  Gene Autry's horse Champion was billed as
               the "World's Wonder Horse"
    
    RE:  168 - Ditto 167.
    
    Impressed,
    Carl-who-has-a-surprise-up-his-sleeve-for-next-week

    Gosh!  Node NOTED sure is a pain in the, well, you know.  I better
    get the trivia answers in while I can.  Here goes:
    
    1.  Pablito - Conquistador
    2.  Tim Holt - Duke
    3.  William S. Hart - Fritz
    4.  Johnny Mack Brown - Rebel
    5.  Sergeant Preston - Rex (the dog's name was King, get it?)
    6.  Spin - Sailor
    7.  Marty - Skyrocket
    8.  Buck Jones - Silver Buck (sometimes called Silver B.)
    9.  Lee Marvin's drunken horse - Smokey
    10. Professor Marvel - Sylvester
    
    Extra credit:
    1.  Annie Oakley (TV show) - Target (haw, haw, haw)
    2.  "World's Wonder Horse" - Gene Autry's Champion
    
    And now for the scoring:
    
    GRANMA::JWOOD      5 points for Champion
                       5 points for Sergeant Preston's dog King
                      10 points total
    
    DECWET::DADDAMIO  10 points for Skyrocket
                      10 points for Conquistador
                      20 points total
    
    DECWET::JDADDAMIO 10 points for Champion
    
    Big winner this week is DECWET::DADDAMIO.  No prize, just prestige!
    
    Tune in next week for a trivia surprise.
    
    Carl

    Hello trivia fans:
    
    I better post this while I can get into the notes conference.  Node
    NOTED was unreachable all day yesterday.  Here is the trivia surprise
    I had alluded to.
    
    What's the big surprise?  It's not trivia about horses.  These trivia
    questions are about equine cousins, of sorts.
    
    You are asked to provide the names of the mules and donkeys owned by
    the following characters, historic notables, or otherwise (10 points
    each):
    
    1.  Gabby Hayes
    2.  Oakland A's mascot mule
    3.  Sancho Panza
    4.  Mohammed
    5.  Festus Hagen
    6.  Winnie the Pooh's donkey friend
    
    Sorry for there being only 6 this week.  Do you have any idea how hard
    it was to find these?
    
    Extra credit (5 points each):
    
    1.  Gabby Hayes' horse
    2.  Mickey Mouse's horse
    3.  Kansas City Chiefs mascot horse
    
    Answers later in the week, provided I can get into notes.
    
    Carl

    
    6.  Eeyore
    
    

I can't believe that I'm answering the equine trivia note!
I don't even *like* trivia!  

What else could I be doing?
My new saddle finally came in after a two month wait (YAY!!), and 
I've only ridden in it for 20 minutes (boo!). I'm leaving for 10 days 
vacation tomorrow morning, including a backpacking trip (YAY!), 
and I'm not packed (eek!), and the washing machine outlet pipe is
frozen up, and we need more heat tape for the main water pipe,
and and and 
I'm in the middle of a fast-changing project and I'm trying to handle
a few issues before leaving town (Here's a digression for you all.
Our project is like an old sled dog's nightmare with a new team.
I'm the little sled dog that's trying to lead (no concept of alpha dog
here, alas), but I'm getting yanked around by bounding big exhuberent dogs 
(at DEC??) that are distracted by *every* scent on the trail. Half of our 
sled team gets detached from the harness to pull some other sled temporarily, 
and we've got a sled full of managers all thinking that they're directing, 
but there are more managers than dogs in harness-- whoops, hold on, these 
guys wanna pull us over the cliff so I better lead us back to the 
track... sigh) (Actually it's not that bad but I got into the analogy!)

All this and I'm answering Equine Trivia!!  (Gee, I guess I came to
read the notesfile for a bit of a breather, and now I'm all worked up!) 

But I'm from Oakland-- proud of it-- and my brother worked with 
the A's mule, so I'd better get this right.

#2. His name was Charlie O.  

--carrie

    Here are the answers the the mule/donkey trivia questions.
    
    1.  Gabby Hayes - Blossom
    2.  Oakland A's mascot - Charlie O
    3.  Sancho Panza - Dapple
    4.  Mohammed - Fadda (mates name was Mudda -- just kidding!)
    5.  Festus Hagen - Ruth
    6.  Winnie the Pooh's friend - Eeyore
    
    Extra credit:
    
    1.  Gabby Hayes' horse - Calico
    2.  Mickey Mouse's horse - Horace Horsecollar
    3.  Kansas City Chief's mascot - War Paint
    
    Now for the scoring:
    
    POWDML::MANDILE  10 points for Eeyore
    
    DCEIDL::WILPOLT  10 points for Charlie O.
    
    Ladies and gentlemen, we have a split decision!
    
    See you next week,
    Carl

    
    Whats the name and breed of the Denver Broncos new Mascott?
    
    	(hint: it was in the peddler last month)
    
    

    I can't believe I know this.
    
    The name of the horse is THUNDER.  He is an Arabian Stallion.
    To add, he is owned by Bob & Sharon Magness, of Magness Arabians.
    He is trained by Tom Hudson
    

    
    LABC::PENN - Your our lucky winner!!  Congrats!

    Carl and I teamed up on this one. He came up with the question and I
    knew the answer.
    
    Was there any relationship between George Washington's horse Ranger and
    the Ranger I mentioned in Notes 103.38-103.50? If so, what was it?
    
    John

    Using deductive reasoning and finding the previous references to
    Ranger, I have concluded that both Rangers were gray since John stated
    that his Ranger was of unknown pedigree and also said that GW's Ranger
    was a gray.
    
    If that isn't right then I'll guess that they were both short-legged,
    but I can't imagine the "Father of Our Country", at his height, riding
    a short-legged horse... nothing against short-legged horses, since I
    ride one myself...
    
    I would further comment about my uncertainty because I don't think
    Morgans can be gray... or am I wrong about that?
    
    Anyway, I'll guess that both were grays.
    
    JW 8}
    

    John's right! They were both short-legged, gray horses but that's not
    the answer! BTW, what I said about Ranger's pedigree was that it was
    "unknown to me," not that it was unknown.
    
    FWIW, George Washington wasn't all that tall! I think he only stood
    about 6'2". There are paintings of him on his Ranger and ole Geo's legs
    are well below Ranger's belly.
    
    Morgans can be gray. Historically, there were lots of gray Morgans.
    There are less than a dozen at the moment and, unless someone uses them 
    for breeding stock, gray will become an "extinct" color in Morgans even 
    though it is permitted under the rules.
    
    You may be confusing gray with the "white rule" which prohibits any white
    markings above the knee/hock line (except on the face) in Morgans. That
    means there can be no white Morgans. BTW, that refers to real white;
    not gray turned white, palomino diluted to cremello or buckskin diluted
    to perlino. I think I mentioned the white rule in Topic 103 and gave
    the history of how it came to be. I think the title was "No white?" or
    "Why no white?" ...something like that...
    

    They're both dead... S O R R Y...
    
    JW 8}
    

    Geez, after I gave the hint that they were both grey and short-legged,
    I'm surprised that nobody guesses the right answer!
    
    The short version: *Ranger was the sire of George Washington's Ranger.
    
    The longer version: *Ranger was an Arabian stallion who was bred in
    England and imported to the Colonies in the 1760's. His stock became
    very popular in MA and CT, especially in the Connecticutt River
    valley(i.e. the Hartford CT - Springfield MA area).
    
    During the siege of Boston in 1775 and 1776, many of the cavalry troops
    were mounted on stock by *Ranger. George Washington noticed the quality
    and disposition of these horses and encouraged his friend, a Mr.
    Lindsay, to buy *Ranger and take him to Virginia. 
    
    Mr. Lindsay did so and the horse became known as Lindsay's Arabian or 
    Lindsay's Ranger. Prior to that, he had been known as Arabian Ranger or
    simply Ranger.
    
    Old George got one of Ranger's sons as his personal mount.

    Can anyone answer this riddle?
    
    What animal could be described as follows: if every single one died today,
    thousands of them be born tomorrow?
    
    Maybe this should be in a new category: "Triddlevia".
    
    JW 8}
    

    CORRECTION -- it should have read as follows:
    
    
    ...thousands of them could be born tomorrow...

    I can think of 2 animals(and lots of insects!) that fit that might
    answer that riddle. Snakes and turtles because they just lay eggs and
    then leave town.

    This triddlevia applies to an animal in the sense of a beast, neither fish
    nor fowl, but an animal none-the-less.  It applies to an animal that
    exists today in abundance.
    
    JW 8}
    

    This sounds like a trick question, but I'll give it a try.  Keeping
    along the same lines as John, that is, egg layers, the only mammal
    I'm aware of that lays eggs is the duckbill platypus.
    
    Carl

    Can we take a couple wild guesses each?
    
    1)	humans ?
    
    2)	bats ?
    
    3)	catepillars ?
    

    Hint:  This in an equine related question; it is not a trick question,
   	   but you need to think outside the normal boxes; i.e., normal
   	   ways of thinking.
                      
    The Triddlevia'er 8} 

    Oh, I get it! Horse-lovers ??
    

    "Horse-lovers" is a G R E A T unexpected answer; I am tempted to say
     correct, but it's not the one I'm looking for.  The beast is indeed equine.
    
    JW 8}
    
                                                  

    Hm. Well, then how about 'foal'?
    

    If it's equine, it's a foal when its born so you are technically
    correct 8} but can you tell me what kind of equine does not have
    parents that are also that kind of equine?  Of course, this is a big
    hint so I hope you get it this time...   Good luck!
    
    JW 8}

    how about 'Nightmares'

    The correct answer is:
    
    Mules, which are the offspring of a horse and a donkey, are born
    whether or not any other mules are alive.  Therefore, if every mule
    died today, thousands of mules could be born tomorrow.
    
    Other correct answers could be Jennies or other variations of mules.
    There are other less famous hybrids which could also be correct
    answers.
    
    Thank you for all the guesses; I enjoyed them!
    
    JW 8}

		How Much to you know about Ruffian?


Ruffian was a very large filly, at 2yrs old she was larger then most colts.
Take your best guess.

How Tall was Ruffian?					Points=10

When was she born?					Points=20

What color was she?					Points=10

What was her Farther name?				Points=20

What was her mothers name?				Points=20

How large round was her girth?				Points=20

What size shoe did she wear?				Points=10


						Total=110 possible

Louisa

    Thanks for this question; I was crazy about Ruffian, but my answers are
    all guesses.
    
    17 hands
    born in 1971
    chestnut color
    father - no guess
    mother - no guess
    girth - 54
    
    Hoping for at least 10 points for trying, JW8}
    

    She was black, with a white star.  I dont' remember anything more than
    that, though. 
    

    
    Wood - sorry, none of your answers are correct
    
    Lcoburn - sorry to, she was not black!  wanna try again?
    
    Lou

    Very dark bay then?? I have an old picture of her, and she sure 
    *looked* black in it.
    

    
    Lcorbun -- you have your self 10points.  she was dark bay!  that
    was the color she was registerd under.  She did look black and
    everyone called her the black filly...but she was dark bay.
    
    

				Answers!
    
    
		How Much to you know about Ruffian?


    
    
Ruffian was a very large filly, at 2yrs old she was larger then most colts.
Take your best guess.

How Tall was Ruffian?			16.2		Points=10

When was she born?			4/12/72		Points=20

What color was she?			Dark Bay	Points=10

What was her Farther name?		Reviewer	Points=20

What was her mothers name?		Shenanigans	Points=20

How large round was her girth?		75-1/2		Points=20

What size shoe did she wear?		5		Points=10


						Total=110 possible
		
	to give you an idea how much bigger shew as.. her rival
	Foolish Pleaser's measurments:

	Foolish Pleaser			Ruffian
	Hight: 15.3-1/4			16.2
	Girth:  73			751/2
	hip to  hock: 41		43
	lenght: 68			69
	butt to ground 54		57
	weight: 1061			1125
	foot 6				foot 5

	*she was bigger but she had a smaller foot*

    Trivia fans:
    
    Coincidence abounds!!  Just as we were discussing the relative merits
    of the KY Derby and other famous/important events in the TB racing
    world, I now submit my next batch of horse trivia about, you guessed
    it, famous/important horse racing events!!
    
    You are asked to provide the dates, names, and other indicated
    information for these famous firsts in UK horse racing history.  Each
    correct response will get you 15 points.  Extra points are as marked.
    
    1.  The date of the first Epsom Derby (an extra 10 points if you can
        name the winning horse)
    
    2.  The date of the first Royal Ascot (10 extra points if you can name
        the ruling monarch at the time)
    
    3.  The date of the first Grand National Steeplechase (10 extra points
        each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points for the
        location)
    
    4.  The name of the first steeplechase racecourse (5 extra points for
        the date it opened, 5 extra points for the location)
    
    5.  The date of the first steeplechase under National Hunt Rules (10
        extra points each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points
        for the location)
    
    6.  The date of the first recorded official steeplechase of any kind
        (10 extra points each for the human participants, 20 (yes, 20)
        extra points for a description of the course layout, 5 extra points
        for the location)
    
    There's 215 possible points at stake here, not to mention the accolades
    and general admiration of your friends and neighbors.  Answers soon.
    But I shouldn't have to provide them, right?
    
    Let the squirming begin!!
    Carl-who-has-more

    Re: .205
    
    Ruffian's rival in the match race was Foolish Pleasure not Foolish
    Pleaser.
    
    This will teach me for not reading notes for a few days.  I knew most
    of those answers!
    
    						Jan

    Trivia Buffs:
    
    In my -.2 trivia questions posting, item 2 about the Royal Ascot is
    worded rather vaguely, much to my chagrin.  I originally thought
    that my source book was referring to a race named the Royal Ascot,
    when in fact it was referring to the first Royal Ascot race meeting.
    
    This goes to show you what I really know about horses and horse
    racing -- just what I read in books on my way to devise trivia
    questions!!  Thanks to John D. for pointing out my confusion.  One of
    many, to be sure.  Actually, I was voted by my high school senior class
    "Most likely to be confused" ;>{)
    
    Even so, answers anyone?
    
    Carl-who-waits

I've been staying out of the trivia lately to try to get more people to
particpate. But, since nobody has even hazarded guesses at Carl's latest
trivia contest, I'll throw in the bits and pieces I know.

    1.  The date of the first Epsom Derby (an extra 10 points if you can
        name the winning horse)

	The first Derby was run on May 4, 1780. It was won by Diamond owned
        by Sir Charles Bunbury. It is only a "toss-of-the-coin" that the
        race is called the Derby after the Earl of Derby who, along with
        Bunbury, was instrumental in establishing the race. Can't imagine
        it being called the Bunbury. Can you? Maybe the Bunbury Stakes would
        work?
    
    2.  The date of the first Royal Ascot (10 extra points if you can name
        the ruling monarch at the time)

        Since Queen Anne built the course(not personally but she paid the
        workers!), I'd guess she was the ruling monarch. I think the first
        meeting at the course was in 1711.
    
    3.  The date of the first Grand National Steeplechase (10 extra points
        each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points for the
        location)

        That's easy! You can read on the infield board at Aintree! The first 
        Grand National Steeplechase was held in 1837. The first race was 
        won by The Duke owned by a Mr. Sirdefield and ridden by a Mr. 
        Potts. The first 2 races were held at MacHull (whereever that is!). 
        In 1839, the race was moved to Aintree. The first Grand National 
        Steeplechase at Aintree was won by Lottery.
    
    4.  The name of the first steeplechase racecourse (5 extra points for
        the date it opened, 5 extra points for the location)

        I think the first annual steeplechase meeting was held in 1830
        at St Albans(NO, not the one in Vermont! ;-) but I doubt that's the
        answer you're after.
    
    5.  The date of the first steeplechase under National Hunt Rules (10
        extra points each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points
        for the location)

        I haven't a clue!
    
    6.  The date of the first recorded official steeplechase of any kind
        (10 extra points each for the human participants, 20 (yes, 20)
        extra points for a description of the course layout, 5 extra points
        for the location)

        I don't know whether this qualifies as an "official" steeplechase
        or not and it wasn't in the UK(which is one of the qualifications
        in the intro to the questions) but it's certainly one of the first 
        recorded steeplechases...

        In 1752, Corneilus O'Callaghan and Edmund Blake raced 4 miles in 
        County Cork, Ireland from Butevant Church to St Leger Steeple to 
        settle an argument about whose horse was the better hunter. Blake 
        won. I think the prize was a hogshead of wine and some other 
        food type items.

John

�  <<< Note 445.209 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle Rain Festival: 1/1-12/31" >>>
�                         -< Carl's waited long enough >-

�	The first Derby was run on May 4, 1780. It was won by Diamond owned
�        by Sir Charles Bunbury. It is only a "toss-of-the-coin" that the
�        race is called the Derby after the Earl of Derby who, along with
�        Bunbury, was instrumental in establishing the race. Can't imagine
�        it being called the Bunbury. Can you? Maybe the Bunbury Stakes would
�        work?

Imagine the possibilities...

	The Kentucky Bunbury????

    Here are the answers to the latest batch of trivia questions:
    
    1.  The date of the first Epsom Derby (an extra 10 points if you can
        name the winning horse)
    
        May 4, 1780, won by Diamond, owner Charles Bunbury.  I have another
        source that lists the horse's name as Diomed.
    
    2.  The date of the first Royal Ascot [meet] (10 extra points if you
        can name the ruling monarch at the time)
    
        August 7, 1711, Queen Anne.
    
    3.  The date of the first Grand National Steeplechase (10 extra points
        each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points for the
        location)
    
        February 26, 1839, won by Jem Mason on Lottery, Aintree, England.
        My source made no mention of the race being run anywhere else but
        at Aintree.  But if it says different on the infield board right
        there at the track, who am I to contradict?  I've never been to
        Aintree, so I defer to others more knowledgeable than myself.
    
    4.  The name of the first steeplechase racecourse (5 extra points for
        the date it opened, 5 extra points for the location)
    
        The Hippodrome, June 3, 1837, at Bayswater.
    
    5.  The date of the first steeplechase under National Hunt Rules (10
        extra points each for the winning horse and jockey, 5 extra points
        for the location)
    
        March 26, 1863, won by Mr. Goodman on Socks, Market Harborough,
        England.
    
    6.  The date of the first recorded official steeplechase of any kind
        (10 extra points each for the human participants, 20 (yes, 20)
        extra points for a description of the course layout, 5 extra points
        for the location)
    
        I've been wrong for over 30 years!!  Much to my embarrassment and
        dismay, Ireland is *not* a part of the UK.  I have this on good
        authority -- straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.  A guy
        I work with who is from Scotland, accent and everything, wrinkled
        his nose and uttered unrepeatable expletives at the mere suggestion
        that Ireland is or ever was a part of the UK.  So sue me!  Northern
        Ireland is a part of the UK, however.  Anyway, John caught my
        error in addition to coming up with the correct answers.
    
        1752, Cornelius O'Callaghan and Edmund Blake raced 4 miles "from
        the Church of Buttevant to the spire of St. Leger Church, County
        Cork, Ireland.  My source mentions nothing about the prizes at
        stake.
    
    Here's how the scoring went:
    
    DECWET::JDADDAMIO
       1.  25 points
       2.  25 points
       3.  40 points
       4.  nichts
       5.  nada
       6.  60 points
    -----------------
           150 points total
    
    Congratulations, John!!  Good show, and all that rot, eh what?  My
    meager source books don't contain half the stuff you know off the top
    of your head.
    
    More "first" trivia later in the week.
    
    Carl

    Truth be told, I've never been to Aintree either! I read the infield
    board on a video tape about the Grand National that I got as a
    Christmas present 2 years ago. They mentioned that the first race was
    run in 1837 at MacHull and go on to say that Lottery won the first one
    at Aintree in 1839. While the narrator is talking, the camera zooms in
    on the infield board and one can read the 1837 and 1838 winners and the
    names of relevant humans. I'm surprised that Carl was really expecting
    Aintree as the answer. I was sure that that part was a trick question
    because so many of us see the Grand National at Aintree on TV that it's
    like not knowing that the Kentucky Derby is run at Chuchill Downs!
    
    Same scenario for the Epsom Derby answers. We have a video about the
    Derby and during the intro, the narrator says that the first Derby 
    was won by Diamond on May 4, 1780. Just happened to remember it...
    
    I've heard of Diomed but always thought it was a different horse. I'll
    see if I can find out whether it's just a variant spelling or what.
    
    The answers about the first steeplechase came from an article on the
    hostory/traditions of chasing that I read in The Chronicle a couple
    years ago. I have no idea what there source was but the story was such
    a good one that I remembered it. Now, if I could just remember where I
    parked my car, put my flashlight, or what I was looking for a minute
    ago....
    
    John

    > ...We have a video about the
    >Derby and during the intro, the narrator says that the first Derby
    >was won by Diamond on May 4, 1780. Just happened to remember it...
    
    >I've heard of Diomed but always thought it was a different horse. I'll
    >see if I can find out whether it's just a variant spelling or what.
    
    Did I ever mention that I suffer from a hearing loss? Between that and
    the British narrator's accent and the fact that he bloody well mumbles..
    I had misunderstood what was said on the tape. I asked Jan(who has
    normal hearing) to listen to it and she said she *thinks* the narrator
    said Diomed.
    
    So, I went into the library and dug out the racing history book I'd read
    sometime ago. Sure enough, my memory hasn't failed. Diamond and Diomed
    were different horses. Diamond was a major stakes winner too but he ran
    nearly 20 years after Diomed won the Epsom Derby.
                                
    Guess I lose those bonus points, eh? Gee, I don't think I can stand the
    pain...

    ...over the weekend.  In other words, more "first" equine trivia!!
    I think I'm pretty safe with this stuff -- no dumb mistakes or 30
    year ignorances, I mean.
    
    You are asked to come up with the indicated information for these
    first equipment/technical events in world horse history:
    
    1.  The date of the first horsebox (10 points)
        a.  Who built it? (5 points)
        b.  The name of the horse first transported in it (5 points)
        c.  Who was it built for? (5 points)
        d.  Where was the horse being taken? (5 points)
    
    2.  The date of the first photo finish (10 points)
        a.  Who took the picture? (5 points)
        b.  Where? (5 points)
    
    3.  The first filmed horse race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  Who was the cameraman? (5 points)
    
    4.  the date of the first automatic totalizator (10 points)
        a.  What race track? (5 points)
    
    5.  Who was the first jockey to wear a crash helmet? (10 points)
        a.  When? (5 points)
        b.  What race? (5 points)
        c.  Where? (5 points)
    
    6.  The date of the first broadcast horse race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  Who was the broadcaster? (5 points)
    
    7.  The date of the first televised race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  What was the broadcasting company? (5 points)
    
    8.  The date of the first televised steeplechase (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
    
    9.  The date of the first starting gate (10 points)
        a.  Who was the inventor? (5 points)
        b.  What race? (5 points)
    
    10. The date of the first starting stalls (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
    
    You have the entire weekend to uncover the answers to these trivia
    questions.  I found the information within 1/2 hour at my local dinky
    public library, so come Monday, you'll have no excuses if you can't
    answer anything.  Consider this a challenge!!
    
    Carl

Equine Trivia Fans:

What a boring bunch you are!!  I gave you all week to come up with any
answers and not *one* of you gave it a try.  No fun!!  But I give you the
answers anyway.

    1.  The date of the first horsebox (10 points)
        a.  Who built it? (5 points)
        b.  The name of the horse first transported in it (5 points)
        c.  Who was it built for? (5 points)
        d.  Where was the horse being taken? (5 points)
    
The first horsebox built expressly for that purpose was built by Herring
Coachbuilders of Long Acre for Lord George Bentinck, and used for the
first time on Sept. 18, 1836.  It set out from Goodwood drawn by six
post horses to carry the thoroughbred Elis to Doncaster for the St. Leger.

    2.  The date of the first photo finish (10 points)
        a.  Who took the picture? (5 points)
        b.  Where? (5 points)

Taken in 1888 (exact date not certain) by Ernest Marks at the Plainfield
Track in New Jersey.
    
    3.  The first filmed horse race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  Who was the cameraman? (5 points)

The Epsom Derby, May 29, 1895.  Shot by Bert Acres.
    
    4.  the date of the first automatic totalizator (10 points)
        a.  What race track? (5 points)

March 1913 at Ellerslie Racecource, Auckland, New Zealand.
    
    5.  Who was the first jockey to wear a crash helmet? (10 points)
        a.  When? (5 points)
        b.  What race? (5 points)
        c.  Where? (5 points)

Prince Henry at Bar Point-To-Point, Northaw Herts, England, Apr. 17, 1924.
    
    6.  The date of the first broadcast horse race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  Who was the broadcaster? (5 points)

Epsom Derby, June 1, 1927, Mayrick Good of the BBC at the mike.
    
    7.  The date of the first televised race (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)
        b.  What was the broadcasting company? (5 points)

Epsom Derby, June 3, 1931, televised by the BBC.
    
    8.  The date of the first televised steeplechase (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)

Jan. 24, 1948, Sandown Park, England.
    
    9.  The date of the first starting gate (10 points)
        a.  Who was the inventor? (5 points)
        b.  What race? (5 points)

Invented by J. L. Johnstone of Melbourne, first used at Mooney Valley,
March 22, 1894.
    
    10. The date of the first starting stalls (10 points)
        a.  What race? (5 points)

July 8, 1965, Chesterfield Stakes, at Newmarket.
    
Points scored:  nada, nichts, zero-point-zip, null, naught, empty-set,
and anything else which indicates a big fat goose egg!!

Sheesh,
Carl

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    

Hello again trivia fans:

    re:  -.1
    Gosh, in .131 you sure thought otherwise!!
    
Just when you thought you could forget about the KY Derby for another
year, along comes Carl "The Boring" with another round of trivia, this
time devoted entirely to, you guessed it, the KY Derby!!

This latest set of questions is the product of my never-ending search
to bring you the best in trivia, and I think I've succeeded in coming
up with a bunch of low-snooze teasers.  So wake up and smell the horses.

You are asked to provide the indicated answers to the following 18
(count 'em, 18!) trivia questions.  Each correct response will get you
6 points, for a grand total of 108 if you get 'em all correct.

1.  From what state have the *vast* majority of winners come?

2.  What breeding establishment has produced the most winners?

3.  What horse is the only winner to have been disqualified?

4.  What horse posted the fastest winning time?

5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?

6.  What horse was the first roan to win?

7.  What horse was the first grey to win?

8.  What horses hold the records for the fastest fractions?
    a.  1/4 mile
    b.  1/2 mile
    c.  3/4 mile
    d.  1   mile

9.  How much was the largest win ticket payoff?

10. How much was the smallest win ticket payoff?

11. What fillies have won the KY Derby?

12. What horses broke their maidens at the KY Derby?

13. What was the largest field?

14. What was the smallest field?

15. Who is the winningest trainer?

16. What undefeated horses won the KY Derby?

17. What is the winningest post position?

18. How many triple crown winners has there been?

Never a dull moment,
Carl "The Zzzz"

	here are my "guesses"


1.  From what state have the *vast* majority of winners come?
	Kentucky

2.  What breeding establishment has produced the most winners?
	Clarborne Farm
	
3.  What horse is the only winner to have been disqualified?
	Hmmmm....not even a guess here

4.  What horse posted the fastest winning time?
	Secretariet 1:59-1/4 (I think) ?

5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?
	Hmmm..again no guess
	
6.  What horse was the first roan to win?
	I can pitcher the horse, but name escapes me

7.  What horse was the first grey to win?
	Same,,,I can see him,,,,

8.  What horses hold the records for the fastest fractions?
    a.  1/4 mile
    b.  1/2 mile
    c.  3/4 mile
    d.  1   mile

9.  How much was the largest win ticket payoff?
	$5


10. How much was the smallest win ticket payoff?
	$2
	
11. What fillies have won the KY Derby?
	Alysheba (or was that a gelding)
	
12. What horses broke their maidens at the KY Derby?
	????

13. What was the largest field?
	22 horses

14. What was the smallest field?
	10 horses

15. Who is the winningest trainer?
	Mr. Stevens or D. Wayne Lucas

16. What undefeated horses won the KY Derby?
	Flooish Pleasure

17. What is the winningest post position?
	Post 3

18. How many triple crown winners has there been?
	20

    Not being much of a racing fan, I can only guess at a few.
    
    The only winner to be disqualified was Dancer's Image?
    
    Fillies to win were Genuine Risk and Winning Colors?
    
    

1.  From what state have the *vast* majority of winners come?
    Most winners have been bred in Kentucky

2.  What breeding establishment has produced the most winners?
    Calumet

3.  What horse is the only winner to have been disqualified?
    Dancer's Image in 1968

4.  What horse posted the fastest winning time?
    Secretariat posted 1:59 4/5 in 1973. Second fastest time Northern
    Dancer 2:00.0 in 1964. These are the only horses to win in 2 minutes or
    less. Two minutes is not terribly fast for an older horse at this
    distance but it is for a 3 YO in early spring!

5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?

    Do you mean since it was shortened to 10 furlongs?
    
6.  What horse was the first roan to win?
    Winning Colors

7.  What horse was the first grey to win?

8.  What horses hold the records for the fastest fractions?
    a.  1/4 mile
    b.  1/2 mile
    c.  3/4 mile
    d.  1   mile

9.  How much was the largest win ticket payoff?

    $1,234,567.89 ;-)
    
10. How much was the smallest win ticket payoff?

    $2.10 ? That's the minimum pay off so that's my guess
    
11. What fillies have won the KY Derby?

    Regret, Winning Colors and the lovely Genuine Risk.
    
12. What horses broke their maidens at the KY Derby?
    Sir Barton is the only one I can think of.

13. What was the largest field?
22
    
14. What was the smallest field?
4
    
15. Who is the winningest trainer?
    Sunny Jim who trained for Calumet

16. What undefeated horses won the KY Derby?

    Seattle Slew is the only horse to have been undefeated when he won the
    Triple Crown. I can't think of any others who have been undefeated when
    they won the KY Derby.
    
17. What is the winningest post position?
    Post 1

18. How many triple crown winners has there been?
    11 as of today

    18. I think it was 10, not 11 Triple Crown winners to date.
    

    >>5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?
    >
    >Do you mean since it was shortened to 10 furlongs?
    
    Well, since Carl didn't respond, I'll give both answers. From
    1875-1895, the KY Derby was run at a distance of 1.5 miles(12
    furlongs). At that distance the slowest time was 2:52 1/2 posted by
    Kingman in 1891. In 1896, the race was shortened to the current 10
    furlong distance. The slowest time at 10 furlongs is 2:12 3/5 posted by
    Pink Star in 1907.

7.  What horse was the first grey to win?
    Native Dancer, maybe?
    
15. Who is the winningest trainer?
    Sunny Jim FitzSimmons (to give his last name, too!)
    
    John stole the rest of my answers :-)!!!
    
    						Jan

KY Derby trivia fans:

Great answers, many of them correct!!  Sorry to take so long to get
back with the wrap-up.  Somebody has to keep Digital afloat ;>{)

Anyway, here are the answers you've all been waiting so patiently
for:

1.  From what state have the *vast* majority of winners come?

    Kentucky leads all states with 89 winners.  Florida is a distant
    second with 5 winners, and Virginia is third with 4 winners.

2.  What breeding establishment has produced the most winners?

    Calumet Farm has produced the most Derby winners (9). They were
    Whirlaway (1941), Pensive (1944), Citation (1948), Ponder (1949),
    Hill Gail (1952), Iron Liege (1957), Tim Tam (1958), Forward Pass
    (1968) and Strike the Gold (1991). All but Strike the Gold were
    foaled in the same barn at the farm near Lexington, Ky.

3.  What horse is the only winner to have been disqualified?

    Dancer's Image, but it took four years from 1968 to 1972 for DI's
    number to be taken down in favor of runner-up Forward Pass.

4.  What horse posted the fastest winning time?

    For 10 furlongs, Secretariat, 1973, 1:59 2/5

5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?

    For 10 furlongs, Stone Street, 1908, 2:15 1/5

6.  What horse was the first roan to win?

    Winning Colors in 1988.

7.  What horse was the first grey to win?

    Determine in 1954 was the first gray to win followed by Decidedly
    in 1962, Spectacular Bid in 1979, and Gato Del Sol in 1982.

8.  What horses hold the records for the fastest fractions?
    a.  1/4 mile:  Top Avenger, 1981, 21 4/5
    b.  1/2 mile:  Top Avenger, 1981, 45 1/5
    c.  3/4 mile:  Spend A Buck, 1985, 1:09 3/5
    d.  1   mile:  Spend A Buck, 1985, 1:34 4/5

9.  How much was the largest win ticket payoff?

    1913, Donerail paid $184.90 for a $2 ticket.

10. How much was the smallest win ticket payoff?

    1948, Citation paid $2.80 for a $2 ticket.

11. What fillies have won the KY Derby?

    Three fillies have won the Derby -- Regret (1915), Genuine Risk
    (1980) and Winning Colors (1988). Five of the 35 fillies to start
    were post-time favorites -- Regret, Nellie Flag (fourth in 1935),
    Prudery (third in 1931 as part of an entry with Tryster) and the
    entry of Althea and Life's Magic in 1984 (Althea was 19th, LIfe's
    Magic eighth).

12. What horses broke their maidens at the KY Derby?

    Buchanan, 1984, Sir Barton, 1919, and Brokers Tip, 1933.

13. What was the largest field?

    23 in 1974

14. What was the smallest field?

    3 in 1892 and 1905.

15. Who is the winningest trainer?

    Ben A. Jones is the winningest Derby trainer with six -- Lawrin
    (1938), Whirlaway (1941), Pensive (1944), Citation (1948), Ponder
    (1949), and Hill Gail (1952).

16. What undefeated horses won the KY Derby?

    Fourteen horses went into the Derby undefeated, and four won:
    Regret (1915), Morvich (1922), Majestic Prince (1969) and Seattle
    Slew (1977).

17. What is the winningest post position?

    Post 1 has produced 12 winners, the most recent being Ferdinand
    in 1986.  Next is post 4 with 10 winners, Seattle Slew being the
    most recent winner.  There's a 3-way tie for third between posts
    2, 5, and 10 with 9 winners each.

18. How many triple crown winners has there been?

    There have been 11 Triple Crown winners:  Affirmed (1978), Seattle
    Slew (1977), Secretariat (1973), Citation (1948), Assault (1946),
    Count Fleet (1943), Whirlaway (1941), War Admiral (1937), Omaha
    (1935), Gallant Fox (1930), and Sir Barton (1919).

All of the above answers were taken from the Associated Press
Derby Factbook, as reported via "[email protected]".

Now for the scoring:

AKOCOA::LPIERCE
   You got Kentucky, Claiborne Farms, and Secretariat correct
   for a total of 18 points.

CSLALL::LCOBURN
   You got Dancer's Image and 2 of the 3 fillies, so that's a total
   of 10 points.

DECWET::JDADDAMIO
   You also got Kentucky, Claiborne, and Secretariat correct.  You
   correctly answered Winning Colors as the first roan and got all
   three winning fillies.  Sir Barton was indeed winless until the
   KY Derby, but there were 2 others, so only 2 points credit there.
   Seattle Slew was one of four undefeated horses to win, so only
   1 1/2 points.  You correctly identified post 1 as the winningest
   post position and also the correct number of triple crown winners.
   You earned a grand total of 51 1/2 points.  Good work, John!!

DECWET::DADDAMIO and GRANMA::JWOOD
   "A" for effort.

Thanks for the great participation, everyone!!
Carl

    Carl>5.  What horse posted the slowest winning time?
    
    Me>The slowest time at 10 furlongs is 2:12 3/5 posted by Pink Star in 1907.
    
    Carl>    For 10 furlongs, Stone Street, 1908, 2:15 1/5
    
    Does this error and the typo I made in Secretariat's time mean that I
    have to go memorize the winners, times, jockeys and trainers as punishment?
    
    ;-)
    

    RE:  -.1, and write them each 100 times!!
    
    And in addition, you must give a bitting and shoeing discussion and a
    four-generation pedigree of each of this year's KY Derby entrants.
    
    Just kidding, John!!  It's all for fun in trivialand -- except for me,
    of course, who is serious and boring.  It's hard to have fun when
    you're bored!!
    
    ;>{) Carl "The Trivial"

    What about Phar Lap ?  Doesn't anyone have any information on his
    story...he is a legend you know.  He was a great horse...he was
    fast without a whip.  He won even with the most amount of weight
    you can legally and illegally put on a horse to try and keep the
    race FAIR !!
    
    I have always been a fan of Phar Lap...does anyone have any facts
    or knowledge about him ?
    
    Ayn

    
    
    I don't have it stored in my head.. but there was a wonderful
    movie done called Phar Lap and I saw it a few years ago on
    video...... 
    
    	Probably our racing enthusiasts (john... carl) can fill
    in the blanks?
    
    

    Wasn't he (Phar Lap) poisoned or something awful like that by
    the competition? I remember seeing the video a few years back, too.
    

Pharlap was a great horse. He was foaled in New Zealand in 1926, sired
by Night Raid and out of Entreaty. His life and career was made into a
movie("Pharlap") in the early 1980's. Although it transposes a few facts 
and was a dramatization, the movie is pretty factual. The facts are 
fantastic enough that even Hollywood didn't need to elaborate!

Pharlap was sold as a yearling to an American living in Australia, David
Davis. The initial purchase price was a mere 160 guineas. Mr Davis had 
never seen the colt which had been selected by trainer Harry Telford. 
Telford selected Pharlap based on the fact that his pedigree contained a 
dual cross to the sire of a Melbourne Cup winner.

When the colt arrived in Australia, Davis didn't like the look of him and 
refused to pay for his training. Telford tried to buy the colt for 500 pounds
(they didn't convert to Australian dollars until many years later).
Davis said no on the basis that if Telford was willing to pay 500, the colt
must be worth 5,000. Telford talked Davis into leasing the colt to him in 
lieu of training fees. The lease was for 3 years.

Pharlap(which means Bolt of Lightning in Siamese) developed into a huge 
17.1 hand chestnnut weighing over 1250 pounds. He had 2 white hind fetlocks
and black Bend Or marks on his thighs. As a 2 YO, he was lazy and didn't like 
to train. He ran 4 times at age 2 and didn't win a race.

At age 3, he won so much he earned the nickname "The Red Terror". He won a 
number of stakes races including the Rosehill Guineas and Victory Derby.
He went to the 1929 Melbourne Cup as the even money favorite which was the
shortest price in the history of the Cup. He ran third under jockey Bobby 
Lewis behind Nightmare. The Melbourne Cup was the only race in 24 starts that
Pharlap *lost* as a 3 YO in 1929. That's right, he won 23 times in 24 races!

His career at 4 brought him to the 1930 Melbourne Cup as the odds-on favorite.
But, he had trouble getting there! Bookies and organized crime people didn't
want Pharlap to run because great amounts of money had been bet on him to win
and in what we would now call Exactas in the US(first and second place horses
in order). Pharlap was shot at while training for the race. He was threatened
with attacks of acid, etc in the days before the race in an attempt to convince
Telford and Davis to scratch Pharlap.

To deceive the would-be attackers, Pharlap was run in the Melbourne Stakes on 
the Saturday before the Melbourne Cup. On the Tuesday(i.e. Cup Day), Telford 
and groom Tommy Woodcock snuck Pharlap out the back gate of Telford's farm 
and onto a trailer. He got to the track in time for the Melbourne Cup. Pharlap 
won the 1930 Melbourne Cup by 3 lengths carrying 138 pounds including jockey, 
Jim Pike. Woodcock would later become the trainer of Pharlap.

Notice that Pharlap won the Cup only 3 days after he won the Melbourne Stakes
race. Not only that, Pharlap raced again on Thursday that same week and won
the Oaks. On Saturday, he won a fourth race in 8 days!

By the 1931 Cup, Pharlap was back under control of his owner(Davis). Pharlap
was so dominant that the officials assigned him a weight of 150 pounds. Davis
was coerced into running the horse against his will. 

Here's one point that the movie distorted. Jockey Jim Pike knew that Pharlap
wasn't right and felt that he was overtrained for the race. He told Woodcock
that he wouldn give Pharlap an easy race if it was obvious that he couldn't 
win. Pike kept his word and eased Pharlap to 8th when he couldn't win under
150 pounds. The movie shows Woodcock giving Pike a leg up and begging Pike 
not to harm the horse. In fact, Pike offered to see that Pharlap came to no
harm and promised not to "beat him about" with the whip. Whitenose won the
1931 Cup.

Davis had already decided not to continue racing Pharlap in Australia. He 
accepted an invitation to run in what was then the world's richest horse 
race, the Agua Caliente Handicap at Tijuana. Pharlap was sent to the US 
with Tommy Woodcock as trainer, a jockey , an apprentice jockey and a 
veterinarian. He won the race in a romp. He won by about 1 furlong. Most 
people didn't know that he had an injured foot and was wearing a bar shoe 
for support. American race caller Marhsall Cassidy and jockey Johnny 
Longden(both legends in the sport and now retired) were there. Both say 
that Pharlap was the best they ever saw. Both saw several US Triple Crown 
winners including Secretariat and Count Fleet...

Pharlap won 56,425 pounds in purse money. That was a *fortune* during the
Depression!

Sixteen days after the Agua Caliente, Pharlap showed a minor colic early in
the morning. He was attended by his own vet. As the day went on, Pharlap got 
worse and the vet went to get another vet for a second opinion. While he was
gone, Pharlap rolled and developed an internal hemmorhage. He died with Tommy
Woodcock cradling Pharlap's head in his arms. If anybody ever tells you
that racing people are callous and don't care about their horses, tell 'em
they're full of it. More than 50 years after Pharlap's death, Woodcock still
nearly cries when he talks about it.

The cause of Pharlap's fatal colic is unknown. Many believe that the bookies
poisoned Pharlap's food because they would lose too much money if he continued
to run. Other possibilities include botulisim and natural causes such as 
worms(deworming drugs were quite poor in the 1930's).

John

    
    John, great info on Pharlap.  Thankyou!

    Thanks, John, for telling us Pharlap's story.  Maybe it was the
    water that did him in.  Last time I was there, I wouldn't drink
    anything unless it came out of a bottle that I personally opened!!
    
    I must admit that I knew absolutely nothing about Pharlap until
    reading note -.1.  In fact, most of what I know about horses I've
    learned from reading notes by you John or from reading the books
    that you tell us about.  Thanks for everything.
    
    Carl

    >Maybe it was the water that did him in.
    
    Maybe it was the water. But, it wasn't Tijuana water! I neglected to 
    mention that Pharlap was moved to California after the Agua Caliente.
    Sorry if I mislead you all into thinking he died in Mexico. He died in
    California.
    
    I also forgot to say that from his 3 YO season until his death, Pharlap
    won 36 of 41 starts. Now, *that* is consistentcy!
    
    John

    OK, one last KY Derby trivia for this year....
    
    Every TV racing show since the KY Derby has mentioned that Jockey Jerry
    Bailey chose the wrong horse for the race. Bailey had been Go For Gin's
    regular rider but opted to ride Ihrgun. Ihrgun developed a sore foot
    and was scratched from the KY Derby. All the TV shows and news papers
    mention that Bailey would have joined a small club of jockeys who have
    won *consecutive* KY Derbys. Many jockeys have won 2 or more Derbys but
    it's unusual to get 2 in a row. Now jockey has won 3 times in a row.
    
    Here are the questions:
    
    1. Who was the most recent jockey to win consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) What years?(5 points each) What horses?(5 points
    each)
    
    2. How many other jockeys have won consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 
    
    3. Name as many jockeys which have won consequtive runnings as you can:
    (10 points for each jockey) (5 points each for each correct horse and
    year)
    
    I can't tell you how many points total there are because that would
    give away some of the answers!
    
    John

	I love to guess at Trivia, I'm not up on racing, but here
	are some guesses.



    1. Who was the most recent jockey to win consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 

		Pat Day ?  I think I have his name right, he's a
		blonde american.

   What years?(5 points each) What horses?(5 points each)
    
		no guess

    2. How many other jockeys have won consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 

	Shoemaker, Valaquez(sp) are the only ones I can come up with.
    
    3. Name as many jockeys which have won consequtive runnings as you can:
    (10 points for each jockey) (5 points each for each correct horse and
    year)

		no guess	
    

    Thank you John for all of that GREAT information on Pharlap.  I
    have seen the movie several times and everytime I see a horse book
    I go to the Thoroughbred/racing section to see if there is anything
    on Pharlap...there usually isn't...they have the American horses
    there.
    
    Your information was great !!!
    
    Thank you again.
    
    Ayn

My guesses:

    1. Who was the most recent jockey to win consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) What years?(5 points each) What horses?(5 points
    each)

    Eddie Delahoussaye -- 1982, Gato Del Sol and 1983, Sunny's Halo
    
    2. How many other jockeys have won consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 

    3 others
    
    3. Name as many jockeys which have won consequtive runnings as you can:
    (10 points for each jockey) (5 points each for each correct horse and
    year)

    Ron Turcotte -- 1972, Riva Ridge and 1973, Secretariat
    J. Winkfield -- 1901, His Eminence and 1902, Alan-A-Dale
    I. Murphy    -- 1890, Riley and 1891, Kingman

Actually, I knew Eddie D. and R. Turcotte out of my head (standard KY
Derby trivia stuff, you understand), but I had to look up the other 2
guys.  My source doesn't give their first names, only initials.  What
are their first names, anyway?  Do you know, John?  (not trivia, just
curious)

Carl

    1. Who was the most recent jockey to win consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) What years?(5 points each) What horses?(5 points
    each)
    
    Eddie Delahoussaye - 1981 & 1982, Gato del Sol and Sunny's Halo
    
    2. How many other jockeys have won consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 
    
    at least 1, probably more
    
    3. Name as many jockeys which have won consequtive runnings as you can:
    (10 points for each jockey) (5 points each for each correct horse and
    year)
    
    Ron Turcotte - 1972 & 1973, Riva Ridge and Secretariat
    
    						Jan

    
    Here are the questions: (and answers)
    
    1. Who was the most recent jockey to win consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) What years?(5 points each) What horses?(5 points
    each)

	Eddie Delahoussaye; 1982 w/ Gato Del Sol and 1983 w/ Sunny's Halo
    
    2. How many other jockeys have won consequtive runnings of the KY
    Derby? (10 points) 
    
	3

    3. Name as many jockeys which have won consequtive runnings as you can:
    (10 points for each jockey) (5 points each for each correct horse and
    year)

	Ron Turcotte; 1972 w/ Riva Ridge and 1973 w/ Secretariat
	Jimmy Winkfield; 1901 w/ His Eminence and 1902 w/ Alan-a-Dale
	Issac Murphy; 1890 w/ Riley and 1891 w/ Kingman


    So, Carl got 'em all for 130 points. Jan got Eddie D's years wrong but I
    confess I mislead her into thinking that '82-'83 were the wrong years so
    I have to give her full credit. She also got Turcotte for a total of 60 
    points.

    Sorry, Lou. No correct guesses... Oh...you said "Pat Day ? ... he's a
    blonde american."

    That's a reasonable description of Pat Day. But, none of the correct 
    answers are/were blonde men and Turcotte isn't American(he's from Quebec,
    Canada). 

    So far, the only jockeys to win consecutive KY Derbys were either from
    a French speaking North American culture(Eddie D's a Cajun from Louisiana
    and Turcotte is Quebecois) or have been black like Winkfield and Murphy. 

    Surprised to learn that there were top jockeys that were African-American?
    In fact, nearly all the jockeys at the time the KY Derby was started(1875)
    were African-American! But, that's another topic.

    John

Hello equine trivia fans:

While I was looking up the answers to John's trivia questions, I came
across a little more KY Derby trivia stuff that might prove interesting.

The following lists are sires and their offspring who have *both* won the
KY Derby.  You are asked to match the sires to their offspring.  The
lists don't match in length because one sire had more than one offspring
that won.  Each correct match gets you 8 points for a maximum of 96
points if you get 'em all correct.

        Sires                     Offspring
        -----                     ---------
1.  1895 -- Halma             A.  Alan-A-Dale
2.  1926 -- Bubbling Over     B.  Assault
3.  1928 -- Reigh Count       C.  Burgoo King
4.  1930 -- Gallant Fox       D.  Chateaugay
5.  1936 -- Bold Venture      E.  Count Fleet
6.  1943 -- Count Fleet       F.  Count Turf
7.  1944 -- Pensive           G.  Decidedly
8.  1949 -- Ponder            H.  Middleground
9.  1954 -- Determine         I.  Needles
10. 1955 -- Swaps             J.  Omaha
11. 1977 -- Seattle Slew      K.  Ponder
                              L.  Swale

Carl

        Sires                   Offspring	Year
	-----                   --------- 	----
1895 Halma 			Alan-A-Dale	1902
1926 Bubbling Over     		Burgoo King	1932
1928 Reigh Count       		Count Fleet	1943(Triple Crown Winner)
1930 Gallant Fox(Triple Crown)  Omaha		1935(Triple Crown Winner)
1936 Bold Venture      		Assault		1946
				Middleground 	1950
1943 Count Fleet       		Count Turf	1951
1944 Pensive           		Ponder		1949
1949 Ponder            		Needles		1956
1954 Determine         		Decidedly	1962
1955 Swaps             		Chateaugay	1963
1977 Seattle Slew      		Swale		1984

Notice there are 2 multiple generation lines of Derby winners:
	Pensive -> Ponder -> Needles
	Reigh Count -> Count Fleet -> Count Turf

That reminds me of a book I read on how to breed world class racehorses.
The author had done an infinite number of statistical analyses of pedigrees
of horses that were world class racehorses and compared them to the general
Thoroughbred population. Basically, he said "To have the highest likelihood 
of producing a world class racehorse, take a mare which has won on the 
track(preferably a stakes winner) and breed her to a horse which has either 
won a Group I or Grade I stakes race." Sounds like a longwinded scientific 
version of the old saying, "Breed the best to the best and hope for the best."

John

    Here are my guesses:
    
    1. Halma              A. Alan-A-Dale
    2. Bubbling Over      C. Burgoo King
    3. Reigh Count        E. Count Fleet
    4. Gallant Fox        J. Omaha
    5. Bold Venture       B. Assault
                          H. Middleground
    6. Count Fleet        F. Count Turf
    7. Pensive            K. Ponder
    8. Ponder             I. Needles
    9. Determine          G. Decidedly
    10. Swaps             D. Chateaugay
    11. Seattle Slew      L. Swale
    
    
    Karen Leard
    
    

    Congratulations to:
    
    DECWET::JDADDAMIO and
    NAPIER::LEARD
    
    for getting the sire/offspring trivia entirely correct.  You both
    earn the top score!!
    
    Extra credit should go to John for also pointing out the two multiple
    lines of Derby winners as well as including which horses among them
    were triple crown winners.  The Gallant Fox/Omaha triple crown winners
    looks like a good Jeopardy question to me.
    
    Carl

    Hello Trivia Fans:
    
    Surprise, it's me again!!  Just when you thought you had gotten rid
    of me, your favorite purveyor of trivia boredom puts in another
    appearance for what will probably be one of the last times you'll
    have to suffer through pressing NEXT UNSEEN whenever you spot any of
    my replies.
    
    Seriously though, my company, EA Systems Inc. of Alameda, CA, is being
    sold by Digital and the sale is almost a done deal.  So at some point
    in the near future, our connect to the Easynet will be, as they say
    down in France, histoire.
    
    A week or so ago, our list of accessible nodes was severely reduced,
    but I, being a computerist of reasonable skill, was able to patch
    together a path to node NOTED.  So here I am again for one last run
    to the wire, much to your dismay, I'm sure.
    
    But before the plug is pulled, here is yet another bit of KY Derby
    trivia for you to consider.  Think of it as a parting shot from yours
    truly.
    
    You are asked to name the horse(s) who sired the most KY Derby winners.
    10 points for each correctly named sire.  5 extra points for each of
    his(their) offspring.  Notice that there might be more than one sire.
    
    I'll give you a hint:  there is a possibility of 100 points, so if
    there was only one sire, he was awfully busy!!
    
    Carl the Trivial

    Carl, I have never tried to answer your trivial questions before.  Once
    you get past Trigger and Fury I'm lost.  But I sure have enjoyed each
    and everyone of them.  You will be missed.
    
    I think that one of Man O'War's sons fits this category, but it's a
    pure guess.  Is War Admiral close?

    ...but no cigar.  Sorry.
    
    Man O' War sired two KY Derby winners:
       1929 Clyde Van Dusen (that's really the horse's name, honest)
       1937 War Admiral
    
    But there is/are (an)other horse(s) who has/have sired more KY Derby
    winners than just two.
    
    It's nice to know that I will be missed.  Now if I could just convince
    my wife to miss me, but her aim is too good!!  *@;>{|
    
    Carl

    Ha! Thought you stumped me, eh? Wouldn't be the first time! ;-) MY
    first guess would have been the great stallion, Lexington, but then I
    remember that he *died* the year that the KY Derby was first run. So,
    it would be unlikely that he had many winners of that race!
    
    Anyway, it turns out there are 4 stallions who sired 3 KY Derby winners. 
    There are also about 15 stallions who, like Man O' War, sired 2 KY Derby 
    winners. The most recent of those stallions are Alydar(Strike The Gold and
    Alysheba), Halo(Sunday Silence and Sunny's Halo) and Exclusive
    Native(Affirmed and the filly Genuine Risk). Unfortunately, Halo is the
    only one of those who is still at stud and he's 25! So, we probably
    won't see him get a 3rd or 4th KY Derby winner to break through the tie
    for most KY Derby winners.
    
    The 4 stallions and their KY Derby winning get are:
    	Virgil
    		1876 Vagrant
    		1881 Hindu (Honest! Carl and I aren't making these up!)
    		1886 Ben Ali
    	Falsetto
    		1894 Chant
    		1901 His Eminence
    		1906 Sir Huon
    	Sir Gallahad III
    		1930 Gallant Fox
    		1940 Gallahadion
    		1945 Hoop Jr
    	Bull Lea
    		1948 Citation
    		1952 Hill Gale
    		1957 Iron Liege
    

    Now that we're finished with KY Derby ... How about some trivia about a
    more important race?
    
    Which stallion sired the most Belmont Stakes winners? Same scoring as
    for Carl's KY Derby winners question 10 points for the stallion or
    stallions(if there is a tie) and 5 points for each of his/their sons.
    
    Bonus question: Name the winner of the first Belmont Stakes winner and
    his sire. Hint: You will recognize the sire's name if you know
    *anything* about modern day racing in the US. 10 points each.
    
    John

    >Now that we're finished with KY Derby...
    
    Are you trying to tell me something, John?  BTW, to close out my last
    trivia, DECWET::JDADDAMIO scored a perfect 100 points!!
    
    Now to see how well I can do:
    
    Which stallion sired the most Belmont Stakes winners?
    
       Lexington, who sired 4 winners:
          1868 General Duke
          1870 Kingfisher
          1871 Harry Bassett
          1878 Duke of Magenta
    
    Bonus:  The winner of the first Belmont Stakes?
          1867 Ruthless
    Her sire:
          Eclipse
    
    Carl

    >>Now that we're finished with KY Derby...
    >Are you trying to tell me something, John? 
    
    No. I said we were finished with the KY Derby, not KY Derby trivia. I
    simply meant that the KY Derby was over for the year and wanted to move
    to the Belmont while the race was still fresh.
    
    >Now to see how well I can do:
    
    Pretty good! You even say through my subtrefuge and noted that Ruthless
    was a filly. BTW, the only other filly to win it was Tanya in 1905.
    
    Actually, my source contradicts itself on the sire of the 1878 Belmont 
    winner, Duke of Magenta. In the Belmont results, it says Duke of Magenta 
    was sired by Leamington(a son of Lexington, I believe). In discussing
    the Preakness, the source names Lexington as the sire. But, I believe that
    Lexington is correct so we'll go with that.
    
    John

    So what was the horse(s) on El CID (last night on the east coast anyway).

    Were they those Spanish horses ? I can't think of the breed.

    Specifically the one C.H. rode.

    Sigh...I meant to cross post *months* ago but forgot. John
    
From: Carol <[email protected]>
Subject: TRIGGER - PLEASE !!! (second try)
Date: 7 Dec 1993 14:48:32 GMT

Sorry - first one didn't quite make it.  BUT .....

Please let's get these TRIGGERS straight.  The original Trigger, the one
in the musuem in Victorville in a rearing position, was a TB/cold blood,
Roy says they don't know the bloodlines of the dam.  Trigger was the
athletic one.  Faster than anything - which was proved on the sets a few
times, and smart as a whip, as they say.  Trigger knew the directors
words and once Roy was sitting with his one leg hooked over the horn. 
The director on the next set yelled "action" and Trigger took off dumping
Roy off behind.  Roy hurt his neck and had to have several vertibraes
fused together.  Roy says Trigger got the best of both parents - speed of
his sire and the color and personality and smarts of his dam.  Trigger's
registered name was GOLDEN CLOUD.  Trigger was a great reining horse too.

Trigger, Jr. is also in the museum in Victorville but is the one in the
position with his front foot well extended.  Jr. WAS NOT RELATED TO
Trigger.  Jr. was a TWH.  His registered name was Golden Zepher and he
was purchased by Roy from the Fisher farm in PA.  Jr. is the one that did
the dancing and performing. 

All get are from JR. not the original TRIGGER.  Randy Travis has one from
 Jr.  All those that were sold were from JR.  

Trigger, original, was used only once as stud, against Roy's better
judgement.  Roy doesn't like to talk about this subject.  So some place
there was one.  Since some of you have contact with the Palomino Assoc.
may be you can track this one down.  Roy does not even like to admit that
Trigger was used this once.  The owner of the mare was a friend of Glenn
Randall and Roy says he was talked into using Trigger.  One of my horses
has an ancester named Trigger Bell but that doesn't mean they're related.

Let's give the right horse the right credit.  Believe me - I know what
I'm talking about.

And then there was Little Trigger - but that's another story.

    How about Champion?  Does anyone have any trivia on Gene Autry's mount?
    
    According to Gene, the original Champion died in 19__??.
    
    How many Champions did Gene Autry use in his movies?
    
    JW

    Well, so nobody knows... or cares???
    
    Gene Autry was the celebrity guest on Prodigy's Celebrity Bulletin
    Board a couple weeks back.
    
    He said the original Champion died in 1940; he was replaced by 2 other
    Champions.  One was used exclusively for chase scenes and the other for
    close-ups.
    
    From the Gene Autry Special on TV last week, I would say that the
    original was a bright bay with a distinctive blaze and that the
    close-up Champion was a palomino or a sorrel... remember these movies
    were (all) black and white so it's hard to tell.
    
    JW  

    Can you name the horse of John T. Books (The Shootist)?
    
    Where's Carl when you need him?

    Dollar

    John Wood says..."Let's Start More Fun Trivia" 
    
    I like the idea but didn't know the answer. Haven't seen that film
    recently enough to remember...So I dug up some trivia questions.
    They're a mixed bag of famous horses/people, horse terms, tack, breeds,
    etc. Here's the first 5 to think about:
    
    	1. Little Sorrel (aka Fancy) was ridden by a Confederate general
    	   at the battle of Bull Run during the Civil War(American). Which
    	   general rode Little Sorrel?
    
    	2. What do people mean when they say a horse carries a good flag?
    
    	3. What are the most common colors of the Percheron?
    
    	4. A bony growth on the pastern just above the hoof is called ... ?
    
    	5. What is a jacquima?

�  <<< Note 445.257 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle:Life in the espressolane" >>>
�                          -< Let's kick start trivia >-

    John Wood says..."Let's Start More Fun Trivia" 
    
    I like the idea but didn't know the answer. Haven't seen that film
    recently enough to remember...So I dug up some trivia questions.
    They're a mixed bag of famous horses/people, horse terms, tack, breeds,
    etc. Here's the first 5 to think about:
    
�    	1. Little Sorrel (aka Fancy) was ridden by a Confederate general
�    	   at the battle of Bull Run during the Civil War(American). Which
�    	   general rode Little Sorrel?

Gen Lee (WAG on this one :)
    
�    	2. What do people mean when they say a horse carries a good flag?

Carries his/her tail high..
    
�    	3. What are the most common colors of the Percheron?

Black, dark grey, dapple grey, light grey...  (don't know that browns are 
even allowed)
    
�    	4. A bony growth on the pastern just above the hoof is called ... ?

Ringbone?
    
�    	5. What is a jacquima?

Not a clue - I'd guess Mexican or Spanish something but no idea :)

Re: <<< Note 445.257 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle:Life in the espressolane" >>>
    
>>    	4. A bony growth on the pastern just above the hoof is called ... ?

Either ringbone as my wife pointed out, or, if you really, really mean "just
above the hoof" I could take a SWAG at sidebone.  Ringbone appears to be a bit
higher.

My guess is that you were really looking for ringbone because sidebone isn't a
bony growth; it's an ossification of cartilage...

                                    Roak

Ps.  Thank you Draft Horse Primer for the info; I read the unsoundness section
within the last week...

    4. low ringbone
    5. jacquima... saddle blanket, maybe???
    

    3 - black
    5 - jacquima - isnt that another term for a hackmore?
    

    .4 oh, I think you mean the ergot.
    .3 I think black with white socks
    
    JW

�                      <<< Note 445.262 by GRANPA::JWOOD >>>
�                      -< I'm changing my answer for # 4 >-

�    .3 I think black with white socks
    
Don't know that I've ever seen a Percheron with white socks :)

    oh, was that a Shire?
    
    JW 8}

�                      <<< Note 445.264 by GRANPA::JWOOD >>>
�                                   -< oops! >-

�    oh, was that a Shire?
    
Works for me ;)  (I *think* I remember white on feet for Belgians and I 
know for Clydes but don't see that many Shires to be sure ;)

    
    .3, Black and Gray

    Here's the answers to the first 5:

    
    	1. Little Sorrel (aka Fancy) was ridden by a Confederate general
    	   at the battle of Bull Run during the Civil War(American). Which
    	   general rode Little Sorrel?
    
	   Stonewall Jackson

    	2. What do people mean when they say a horse carries a good flag?

	   It can refer to tail set or the fact that the horse curls
	   its tail over its back when excited
    
    	3. What are the most common colors of the Percheron?
	   a. Gray is most common. b. Black c. Roan(rare; I've only 
	      ever seen 1 roan Percheron) I think no other colors 
	      are allowed!
    
    	4. A bony growth on the pastern just above the hoof is called ... ?

	   Ringbone
    
    	5. What is a jacquima?

	   The traditional bosal hackamore

    and some more think about:


	1. What 3 races make up US Thoroughbred racing's Triple Crown?
	   Two comments: 1) I tried to be *very* specific because the 
	   UK and Canada also have a TB Triple Crown and here in the 
	   US, other racing breed have Triple Crowns. 2) Ask your 
	   non-horsey friends or co-workers this one. I'll bet most
	   of them can't name more than 1 of the races!

	2. What was the name of the horse that survived The Battle 
	   of the Little Bighorn(aka Custer's Last Stand) to become
	   a "mascot" of the 7th Cavalry? Extra bragging rights if 
	   you can tell why I didn't say something like "Name the 
	   horse that was the sole survivor of Custer's Last Stand."

	3. Name the breed that made the running walk famous.

	4. What does the "punch" in Suffolk Punch mean?

	5. What's the thickest part of the hoof wall: toe, quarter 
	   or heel?

�  <<< Note 445.267 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle:Life in the espressolane" >>>
�                           -< Answers & 5 more ?'s >-

�	1. What 3 races make up US Thoroughbred racing's Triple Crown?
�	   Two comments: 1) I tried to be *very* specific because the 
�	   UK and Canada also have a TB Triple Crown and here in the 
�	   US, other racing breed have Triple Crowns. 2) Ask your 
�	   non-horsey friends or co-workers this one. I'll bet most
�	   of them can't name more than 1 of the races!

Maybe you should have asked for the Standardbred's TC?  (KD, P, and B for 
the Thoroughbred)

�	3. Name the breed that made the running walk famous.

Tennessee Walker.

	4. What does the "punch" in Suffolk Punch mean?

Good one for my husband :)

�	5. What's the thickest part of the hoof wall: toe, quarter 
�	   or heel?

Good one... WAG, the heel.

    2.  Well, there were a lot of Indians and Indian horses that survived!

Re: <<< Note 445.267 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle:Life in the espressolane" >>>

>>	4. What does the "punch" in Suffolk Punch mean?

"Short, fat fellow" as in the english punch character.  The Suffolk is a short,
well rounded horse.

                                   Roak

    >"Short, fat fellow" as in the english punch character.
    
    I thought the Punch in Punch & Judy was a contraction of the
    Punchinello character that went along with Harlequin et al...
    Any of of our UK colleagues care to comment on Punch & Judy?

    John,
    
    As usual you are right.  The Punch as of Punch & Judy is
    abbreviated from Punchinello, who is a chief character in 
    Italian puppet-shows.
    
    If I remember tonight, I'll have a go at identifying the derivation
    of the Suffolk Punch's name.
    
    Judy 

    Ok Folks - here's what I have managed to find.
    
    There is only one book, out of my few devoted to heavies, that 
    says anything about how/why the Suffolk became known as the 
    Suffolk Punch.
    For those that wish to know, this one book that makes any comment
    is Great Horses of Britain by Lee Weatherely, Published by Spur
    Publications in 1978.
    
    He says, 
    "The Suffolk Punch, to give it its full name*, is renowned for
    load-pulling, both in terms of its strength and its persistence, and it
    looks the part"
    
    The * then adds
    * 'Punch', meaning a short fat man, dates from the 17th century when
    Punchinello, the forerunner of Punch (and Judy) first appeared in
    England from Italy.  It was not applied to the horse until the 19th
    century.  It is an interesting example of 'etymological drift' as the
    Italian name comes from 'pollecena', a young turkey-cock, whose
    curved beak the notable nose of Mr. Punch still resembles.
    
    Does that help, or should I search further ?
    
    	Judy

    That'll do fine, Judy. The book I used as a source said that Punch
    means a short fat man and that it was a Suffolk transformation of 
    "paunch"... either way we're all agreed it means a short fat guy...
    
    Actually, the Suffolk Punch has several other items that would have
    made good trivia fodder. One of them is that the only color is
    "chesnut" (a Suffolk transformation of chestnut) which causes no
    problem because that's the way we pronounce it anyway! Another is that
    the Suffolk is the only draft breed to be descended from a single
    stallion, etc....
    
    

Answers:                                                        
>	1. What 3 races make up US Thoroughbred racing's Triple Crown?

	Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes and Belmont Stakes. I'm 
	a little surprised that nobody answered this one except
	the one answer which said "KD, P and B"...which is subject
	to misinterpretation(e.g. P could mean Pimlico Special, 
	Prioress, etc as well as Preakness)

>	2. What was the name of the horse that survived The Battle 
>	   of the Little Bighorn(aka Custer's Last Stand) to become
>	   a "mascot" of the 7th Cavalry? Extra bragging rights if 
>	   you can tell why I didn't say something like "Name the 
>	   horse that was the sole survivor of Custer's Last Stand."

	The horse was called Comanche. I didn't say "Name the 
	horse that was the sole survivor of Custer's Last Stand" 
	because lots of cavalry horses survived, including Custer's own 
	mount. But, they were captured by the Indians. Actually,
	*most* of the humans and horses in the 7th Cavalry survived 
	that battle! Custer had split the regiment into 3 parts for
	the battle. Only the section commanded by him was wiped out.

>	3. Name the breed that made the running walk famous.

	Tennesee Walker

>	4. What does the "punch" in Suffolk Punch mean?

	It's a reference to a short fat man to which the Suffolk is often
    	compared.

>	5. What's the thickest part of the hoof wall: toe, quarter 
	   or heel?

	Toe

�  <<< Note 445.275 by DECWET::JDADDAMIO "Seattle:Life in the espressolane" >>>
�                              -< Trivia answers >-

�	Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes and Belmont Stakes. I'm 
�	a little surprised that nobody answered this one except
�	the one answer which said "KD, P and B"...which is subject
�	to misinterpretation(e.g. P could mean Pimlico Special, 
�	Prioress, etc as well as Preakness)

Well, I was trying to give someone else a chance - Kentucky Derby, first 
Sat in May (sometimes my birthday :) - 1 1/4 miles - Preakness two weeks 
later, 1 1/8 (Maryland, My Maryland to the tune of Oh Tinenbaum sp?), 
followed 3 weeks later by the Belmont, 1 1/2 miles).

I've followed these 3 races since I was a little girl ;) (yeah, I was born 
after they started running them :) :)

    
    >Preakness two weeks later, 1 1/8 
    
    How do ya do a buzzer in notes? Preakness is 1 3/16
    
    >(yeah, I was born after they started running them :) :)
    
    I'll bet you were! I'd even be willing to bet that you were born
    after they started calling it the Triple Crown! 

Five more trivia questions:

	1. What English duke was regarded as one of the premier 
	   horseman of the 17th century?

	2. What is a cob? (the general term; not Welsh Cobs)

	3. What is the normal pulse rate range for a horse?

	4. The gullet of the saddle goes over which part of the
	   horse's body?

	5. What were Roman hipposandals?

    	cob = a short backed horse
    
    	gullet over the backbone
    
    	hipposandals - stirrups?
    
    am I close? :)
    
    Sherry

    You got 1 , Sherry and were close on another.
    
	1. What English duke was regarded as one of the premier 
	   horseman of the 17th century?

	William Cavendish, Duke of Newcastle

	2. What is a cob? (the general term; not Welsh Cobs)

	A thickset/stocky short-legged horse suitable for riding & 
	driving

	3. What is the normal pulse rate range for a horse?

	35 - 55 beats per minute

	4. The gullet of the saddle goes over which part of the
	   horse's body?

	The spine/backbone

	5. What were Roman hipposandals?

	Originally, leather "shoes" to protect the hooves. Later 
	they used iron shoes.

In honor of my trip to the Derby, here are some Trivia Questions on the
Derby.

Q:	Who's idea was it to build Churchill downs?		10pt


Q:	When did Churchill downs open?				10pt


Q:	Who is Churchill downs named after?			10pt


Q:	What's the name of the horse who won the first race 	10pt
	on May 17, 1875?


Q:	How many fillies won the Derby?				10pt


Q:	What are the name of the fillies who won the Derby?	10pt



Q:	What was the smallest field to run in the Derby? 	10pt
	and what year or years?					10pt bonus


Q:	What was the largest field to run the Derby? 		10pt
 	and what year?						10pt bonus

	I don't know the answer to all these but I'll see what I can do 
    
Q:	Who's idea was it to build Churchill downs?		10pt
    Uncertain about who exactly thought up the idea but some Ky breeders
    got together and decided they needed to promote KY horses(Tennesse was
    the horse breeding capital of the US at the time). A guy named
    Merriweather Lewis Clark(son/grandson of explorer William Clark and named
    after William Clark's exploration partner, Merriweather Lewis) actually
    built the track.


Q:	When did Churchill downs open?				10pt

    1875?

Q:	Who is Churchill downs named after?			10pt
    Merriweather Clark's uncles from whom he got the land. As I recall,
    Clark's mother was a Churchill and it was her brothers who
    owned the land. Clark leased it at first. The land was later purchased
    after the track proved successful.


Q:	What's the name of the horse who won the first race 	10pt
	on May 17, 1875?

    	Aristedes won the 1875(first) KY Derby. I don't know which horse 
    	won the first race on the card on May 17, 1875. ;-)

Q:	How many fillies won the Derby?				10pt

	3
    
Q:	What are the name of the fillies who won the Derby?	10pt
    
	Regret(1915), Genuine Risk(1980), Winning Colors(1988)


Q:	What was the smallest field to run in the Derby? 	10pt
	and what year or years?					10pt bonus
    
    	I don't know but I have a vague recollection of reading that 4 
    	horses ran sometime in the late 1800's or early 1900's


Q:	What was the largest field to run the Derby? 		10pt
 	and what year?						10pt bonus

	23 ran in the 100th KY Derby(1974); won by Cannonade trained by
    	Woody Stephens; in recent years, the field has been limited to 20
    	starters decided by the amount of money won if more than 20 enter.

    Not too shabby for a guy who's losing his memory and eyesight! ;-)
    John

    
    John you did great!  you got 80 out of 100!
    
    You only misssed The smallest field of horse to run the Derby, the
    number was 3 in 1892 & 1905
    
    The exact date FWIW that Churchill Downs opened ws May 17, 1875
    
    and yes, the people Churchill Downs is named after are Col. Meriweather
    Lewis Clarks uncles (John and Henry Churchill) who owned the land.
    
    Louisa

    >John you did great!  you got 80 out of 100!
    
    The first college I attended had a grading systme of
    95-100 = A; 85-94 = B; 70-84 = C; 60-69 = D; <60 = F
    so I only got a C+ on that KY Derby quiz. ;-)
    
    >(John and Henry Churchill) who owned the land.
    
    I shoulda remembered the first one at least! ;-)
    
    So what horse won the first race on May 17, 1875?

    Carl Geenen said "Tell the gang back at EQUITATION trivia that Pippi
    Longstockings' horse's name is Alphonso.  I'm still working on the name
    of Billy Crystal's horse in 'City Slickers'."
    
    John

    Tell him we miss him and thanks for Alphonso.
    
    JW

    Can anyone name the Black stallion's stablemate?

    Napolean.

    "What color was he?"
    
    I know, how about somebody else?

    
    White

    Can you name the other 2 horses in the match race?
    

    My guess:  Cyclone and Sun Raider

    Hi Ya'll,
    
    Here's some horse trivia from the movies:
    
    In 1939 during a filming of "Jesse James", a stunt man rode
    a horse off a 70 foot cliff into white water. The stunt man
    survived. The horse didn't.
    
    The public was so outraged that this prompted the beginnings
    of the AHA (American Humane Association). The AHA had to be
    consulted on all filmaking involving animals and an AHA rep
    had to supervise all animal shots.
    
    That worked until 1966 when the agreement was dissolved. After
    that AHA was often barred, sometimes at gunpoint, from sets
    involving animals.
    
    In the movie "Apocalypse Now", two donkeys were shot to death
    on the set. In 1979, in the making of a movie called "Heaven's Gate",
    a horse was blown up.
    
    AHA nationally boycotted the film and AHA's authority was 
    reinstated in the 1980 Actors/Producers Collective Bargaining
    Agreement, which continues today.
    
    Tripping horses, is now no longer allowed in Western movie
    action scenes. Horses that do fall in the movies are specially
    trained to perform this act. If you look closely at horses that
    fall in the movies today, you will see the same 6-8 horses in
    most of the movies.
    
    Now, thanks to animal-tronic technology, computer generate animals
    are used for digitally produced animal effects. This has been
    a major advancement in the safety for the animal actors.
    
    Happy trails,
    Tina
    
    

	It's that time of yr again - DERBY TIME.. below is a list of
	Trivia - Hard Trivia - but's it's still Trivia

	Good Luck


 1. Who was the first filly to win the Derby and in what year?
                                                      

 2. Who won the Derby the year of the fighting finish?      


 3. How many mounts has jockey Don Brumfield had in the Derby?


 4. Who trained the Derby winner last time it was run on May 6?


 5. Who is the only jockey to win the Kentucky Derby and the Epsom Derby?


 6. Who was the last foreign-bred to win the Kentucky Derby?


 7. What is the record number of nominations to the Triple Crown?


 8. How many Kentucky Derby winners did John E. Madden breed?


 9. What famous Academy-award winner had a starter in last year's Derby?


 10. Thunder Gulch is a Kentucky-bred. How many Kentucky-breds have won 
     the Kentucky Derby?                

    >9. What famous Academy-award winner had a starter in last year's
    >Derby?
    
    I'm confused. Academy Award(record setting son of Secretariat) hasn't 
    been at stud long enough to have sired a winner who started in last 
    year's KY Derby. What are you talking about? ;-)

    
    john, I took the questions off the Derby Home Page
    
    The answer to #9 is Burt Bacharach.  Burt won an Academy-award, and he
    had a horse in the Deby last yr.
    
    Lou

    It's too hard for me, but I'll break the ice and show my lack of
    knowledge.
    
    1. Genuine Risk in 1978
    2. Affirmed
    3. 3
    4. Lou Somebody
    5. Steve Cauthen
    6. Pharlap
    7. 3... that's a joke.. get it??? 3 nominations for the Triple(3)Crown
    8. 3
    9. Dustin Hoffman
    10. 26

    revise my last to say:
    
    1. Regret - 1915

    Cheezzz, Lou. Don't take me so serious! Not being a movie-goer I
    wouldn't know or care who won the Academy award. But, I *had* heard of
    a racehorse of the same name so I couldn't resist teasing you...

 1. Who was the first filly to win the Derby and in what year?
                                                      
			Regret,1915

 2. Who won the Derby the year of the fighting finish?      

			Brokers Tip

 3. How many mounts has jockey Don Brumfield had in the Derby?

			13

 4. Who trained the Derby winner last time it was run on May 6?

			D.Wayne Lukas

 5. Who is the only jockey to win the Kentucky Derby and the Epsom Derby?

			Steve Cauthen

 6. Who was the last foreign-bred to win the Kentucky Derby?

			Sunny's Halo

 7. What is the record number of nominations to the Triple Crown?

			452
 8. How many Kentucky Derby winners did John E. Madden breed?

			5

 9. What famous Academy-award winner had a starter in last year's Derby?

			Burt Bacharach

 10. Thunder Gulch is a Kentucky-bred. How many Kentucky-breds have won 
     the Kentucky Derby?                

			91